Does the Lance and Kitty relationship seem stupid to anyone else?

[Stu]

Now then

First off, please keep in mind that I haven't seen season 4 yet, so some of this might have already been addressed. And if you are using season 4 as an example, please using spoiler brackets!

Does it seem stupid to anyone else? Lance and his fellow tools, The Brotherhood, only seem to pop up when it is inconvineant to the X-Men, and they fight each other every other episode, so why does she even care about him? It always felt forced to me, and came off as really cheesy, with the odd exception such as episodes like Joyride, one of the better eps they did.

Anyone else think this?

[Animation Otaku]

First, a question before some of the more rabbid fans see this thread. Can I have your CD Player when you get killed?

As for your question. No it doesn't. It was one of the best subplots in Season 2, and gave us several strong episodes. I felt like the 2 of them, although huge opposites, worked very well together and felt natural, it felt forced for her to just drop him in "Mainstream", and much more natural when

Spoiler:

he saved her and they got back together

in "Ascension, Part 2".

[Eddie G.]

I agree with Otaku, it was one of the best parts of season 3. Remember the Brotherhood isn't all bad, I enjoy the idea of there being some sort of uneasy friendship between them and the X-men (just like I enjoy the idea of Cyclopse talking on the phone with Toad in Ultimate X-men).

The relationship between Kitty and Lance was very nice in my opinion and added depth to both Lance and Kitty. Especially Lance, I felt so bad when he left the X-men.

[Denaill]

Boy, you just do not like the Brotherhood do you?

Actually they're some of my favorite characters. I really liked the Kit/Lance relationship and I agree with Otaku, the only time it really seemed forced to me was when they broke up in Mainstream. From the first time you see Kit and Lance there is that infatuation on Lance's side. He obviously went about showing it the wrong way, but it was there.

Remember though that some of the relevant scenes to the formation of Kit and Lance's relationship were edited out due to the 9/11 incident. So that might have to do with the "forced" feeling some people get. But this relationship built up over two seasons. Four if you count the breakup in Mainstream and what happened in Ascension.

On the other hand the Amanda and Kurt relationship really came out of the blue and carried no interest for me. This character shows up out of nowhere and ends up Kurt's love interest all in the course of one episode. Now that's forced.

Oh and Otaku, you can have my CD player when the Amanda/Kurt fans catch up to me.

[Zombies8MDingo]

Do you know what scenes were edited out post 9/11? I do like the relationship between Lance and Kitty but can see why Amazing Spidey-Mod might think it came out of no-where, I only remember 3 episodes in S2 that had anything to do with the relationship. But it does work for me, I even like the Amanda/Kurt relationship, though you're ok to keep hold of your CD player Denaill, and I agree it came out of the blue.

[Storm]

I have to agree with Amazing Spidey but I'm just not a fan of Kitty and Lance. It doesn't seem stupid but their relationship just doesn't work for me. If I had to pick a relationship on Evo I would be Cyclops and Jean. Sorry but I'm way of a Kitty and Colossus shipper and when a relationship happens on a cartoon series that is based on a comic then I just don't see the animated couple as as a couple. I just think it's a bad pair... I would rather have Kitty with Nightcrawler.

- Storm

[Sandoz]

Originally Posted by Animation Otaku

First, a question before some of the more rabbid fans see this thread. Can I have your CD Player when you get killed?

[rabid fangirl] OMG! Liek LaNcItTy 4-eVaH!!!!11shiftone[/fangirl]

Speaking as a Lance/Kitty fan...no, I don't think it's stupid. With Mystique out of the picture throughout most of Season 2, the relationship between the Brotherhood and the X-Men changed and they were rivals pretty much in name only (aside from the occasional skirmish like in "Bada-Bing Bada-Boom" they tolerated each other like in "Shadow Dance" and "Walk on the Wild Side"). So it's not as if Lance and Kitty were trying to squeeze in dates between battles to the death. Lance had feelings for Kitty, acted on them, and proved he was sincere by saving her life (twice). Kitty didn't fall for him immediately; it took some time for her to open up, and between Chem. class and late night phone calls she got to know him. I don't think they quite realized they were supposed to be enemies until the events of DoR and "Mainstream" hit.

[pip25]

Speaking as a Lance/Kitty fan...no, I don't think it's stupid. With Mystique out of the picture throughout most of Season 2, the relationship between the Brotherhood and the X-Men changed and they were rivals pretty much in name only (aside from the occasional skirmish like in "Bada-Bing Bada-Boom" they tolerated each other like in "Shadow Dance" and "Walk on the Wild Side"). So it's not as if Lance and Kitty were trying to squeeze in dates between battles to the death. Lance had feelings for Kitty, acted on them, and proved he was sincere by saving her life (twice). Kitty didn't fall for him immediately; it took some time for her to open up, and between Chem. class and late night phone calls she got to know him. I don't think they quite realized they were supposed to be enemies until the events of DoR and "Mainstream" hit.

I agree completely, and continuing this train of thought, as sad as the fact is, their Mainstream breakup wasn't forced either. Kitty was really upset by the whole mutant bigotry going on, everyone hating them at school, not to mention she felt betrayed by Lance I think. And to top this all, the Bhood want to battle them just when their whole educational future might be at stake, led by Lance and Duncan(!). No wonder she was furious with him, and said the worst thing she could've said. (This was one of the rare episodes where Kitty completely lost her usual cheery mood, which should mean something.) On Lance's side, when he and the other Bhood boys finally beated the X-men in Hex Factor (or more accurately Wanda did, but it still felt like that for them), they jumped from their "we-don't-want-anything-with-those-X-geeks-anyway" mood to the other end of the scale and got too cocky. It also didn't help that when Kitty didn't want to talk to Lance after DoR, Lance, the poor fool (sorry Sandoz), had ABSOLUTELY no idea of what was going on with her. (Still, I don't think he and the rest of the Bhood knew about Mystique's plan.) When he stepped forward in Mainstream saying "guess what will happen now", with all his Hex Factor-gained overconfidence, he was acting like a complete clueless idiot, and nothing shows this more than his shocked expression when Kitty grabbed him. The sadest thing is, when Kit, a little harshly, but completely justly reminded him of his stupidity, instead of a distant thought forming in his head like "gee, what on earth am I doing?", he retorted with a "So you put it that way?! Well, guess what, I don't care!"-type anwser, and started thowing cars at everything that moved in his rage. I really pitied him in his episode, because his temper blinded him from his foolishness and from the fact that he was being used once again. (This time by Kelly.)

[Sandman]

Wow. I didn’t realize there were as many complexities to Lance/Kitty, particularity with the whole Mainstream breakout. That’s why having love interests on rival teams can be so interesting. It is certanily not stupid, but did it feel forced? Well, every relationship seemed forced since this is only a 22 minute show that gets about 13 episodes a year, some of which are wasted like Adrift. But what did you expect? Doctor Zhivago for kids 6-11? Evo doesn’t have the luxury of the comics to develop relationships. That said, Lance/Kitty felt less forced than Remy/Rogue and some others. And I happen to like Remy/Rogue. I also liked it cause of the moments of maturity it showed. Like in season 4.

Spoiler:

Lance doesn’t immediately run off after Kitty in Ascension part 1. He seems still ticked about their breakup and is acting like a petulant child cause he sees her as just another user. Although to be fair, it was the first time she spoke to him and she is asking him to risk his life for something he doesn’t care about.

Yeah, if you hate the Brotherhood, you are probably not going to like Lance/Kitty. Although I do know people that do. So I am not surprised by Amazing Spidey’s opinion. I can’t wait for what he thinks about Pietro.

Originally Posted by Zombies8MDingo

Do you know what scenes were edited out post 9/11?

Lance was fighting Scott and stopped when he saw the flaming eagle mascot begin falling towards Kitty. He then saved her by pushing her out of the way and the statue fell on him. Kitty then phased him out from under the mascot. That is when Kitty’s attitude toward Lance changed, but most people never saw it because of the Sept. 11th editing. It was on the DVD and was aired in other countries.

Originally Posted by Storm

I have to agree with Amazing Spidey but I'm just not a fan of Kitty and Lance. It doesn't seem stupid but their relationship just doesn't work for me. If I had to pick a relationship on Evo I would be Cyclops and Jean. Sorry but I'm way of a Kitty and Colossus shipper and when a relationship happens on a cartoon series that is based on a comic then I just don't see the animated couple as as a couple. I just think it's a bad pair... I would rather have Kitty with Nightcrawler.

I consider cartoon relationships every bit as legit as those in the comic. First off, a cartoon has a much wider audience than the comics, so more people are going to be exposed to it. Second, a popular cartoon can even end up influencing the comics. It was X-Men:TAS that made Remy/Rogue really popular. Even though TAS followed the comics more, a lot of their relationship was written specifically for TAS. Oh, as a Kurt fan, Kurt/Kitty would have been the worst possible thing for his character. It wouldn’t have helped either character. I am not saying Amanda is great, but she helped him open up more.

[Berkut]

I am agree with Amazing Spidey.

[Rogue LeBeau]

Well, Lance and Kitty are fine with me, although I'd also rather have Kurt and Kitty. And I ship Rogue and Remy all the way. I've been a fan of them since forever.

[Kizmet]

Originally Posted by Storm

I have to agree with Amazing Spidey but I'm just not a fan of Kitty and Lance. It doesn't seem stupid but their relationship just doesn't work for me. If I had to pick a relationship on Evo I would be Cyclops and Jean. Sorry but I'm way of a Kitty and Colossus shipper and when a relationship happens on a cartoon series that is based on a comic then I just don't see the animated couple as as a couple. I just think it's a bad pair... I would rather have Kitty with Nightcrawler.

- Storm

So if Lance's name was Pete Wisdom and his powers were hot knives rather than earthquakes would his relationship with Kitty be more acceptible? After all Kitty did date Pete in the "Excalibur" comic long after Colossus broke up with her in Uncanny. Just looking at the relationship dynamics Kitty/Lance has a very similar feel to Kitty/Pete Wisdom:

Pete is not the nicest, most socially acceptable guy around. He and Kitty did not start off on the right foot, but she fell for him after realizing he really did care about people, Lance wins Kitty over by saving her life several times and saving the NM's from their own stupidity.

Pete used to belong to a group called Black Air. Black Air wasn't openly a villian group like the Brotherhood, but their private agenda and their methods made them villains even if they were working for the English government. Pete's certainly killed more people working for Black Air than Lance has hurt as a member of the Brotherhood. Both the Brotherhood and Black Air exist in sort of a grey zone. Black Air claim to be good guys but their action dispute that. The Brotherhood were brought in to be villians but when they don't have Magneto or Mystique pushing them they're just a bunch of kids with a prelidiction for causing trouble.

Lance tried to join the X-Men to be close to Kitty, because of his past they mistrusted him, blamed him for everything that went wrong (without proof) and generally made his life miserable until he quit. Pete joined Excalibur because of his relationship with Kitty, because of his past they mistrusted him and weren't exactly over-joyed that he was dating Kitty, but accepted him on to the team. When Pete and Colossus got into a fight on the very night that Pete joined Excalibur where both men were severely injured Excalibur did not immedately jump to conclusions about who was to blame.

[Storm]

Originally Posted by Kizmet

So if Lance's name was Pete Wisdom and his powers were hot knives rather than earthquakes would his relationship with Kitty be more acceptible? After all Kitty did date Pete in the "Excalibur" comic long after Colossus broke up with her in Uncanny. Just looking at the relationship dynamics Kitty/Lance has a very similar feel to Kitty/Pete Wisdom:

Pete is not the nicest, most socially acceptable guy around. He and Kitty did not start off on the right foot, but she fell for him after realizing he really did care about people, Lance wins Kitty over by saving her life several times and saving the NM's from their own stupidity.

Pete used to belong to a group called Black Air. Black Air wasn't openly a villian group like the Brotherhood, but their private agenda and their methods made them villains even if they were working for the English government. Pete's certainly killed more people working for Black Air than Lance has hurt as a member of the Brotherhood. Both the Brotherhood and Black Air exist in sort of a grey zone. Black Air claim to be good guys but their action dispute that. The Brotherhood were brought in to be villians but when they don't have Magneto or Mystique pushing them they're just a bunch of kids with a prelidiction for causing trouble.

Lance tried to join the X-Men to be close to Kitty, because of his past they mistrusted him, blamed him for everything that went wrong (without proof) and generally made his life miserable until he quit. Pete joined Excalibur because of his relationship with Kitty, because of his past they mistrusted him and weren't exactly over-joyed that he was dating Kitty, but accepted him on to the team. When Pete and Colossus got into a fight on the very night that Pete joined Excalibur where both men were severely injured Excalibur did not immedately jump to conclusions about who was to blame.

Come to think of it I did like Pete and Kitty. Pete was once a favorite character of mine but out of all of Kitty's relationships I loved her when she was with Colossus. I still don't like Evo Kitty/Lance, sorry.

- Storm

[Denaill]

Originally Posted by Kizmet

So if Lance's name was Pete Wisdom and his powers were hot knives rather than earthquakes would his relationship with Kitty be more acceptible? After all Kitty did date Pete in the "Excalibur" comic long after Colossus broke up with her in Uncanny. Just looking at the relationship dynamics Kitty/Lance has a very similar feel to Kitty/Pete Wisdom

Hi Kizmet, I'm so glad to see you here!! Welcome to Toon Zone!

I'm really glad you pointed that out. I was a HUGE Kitty/Pete fan and I always wondered if the Kitty/Lance relationship was maybe a nod towards that.

I mean when Kitty and Lance broke up suddenly in Mainstream I was having horrible flashbacks to Raab's Excalibur. Luckily it turned out better this time around though (so far at least).

[Kizmet]

Originally Posted by Denaill

Hi Kizmet, I'm so glad to see you here!! Welcome to Toon Zone!

I'm really glad you pointed that out. I was a HUGE Kitty/Pete fan and I always wondered if the Kitty/Lance relationship was maybe a nod towards that.

I mean when Kitty and Lance broke up suddenly in Mainstream I was having horrible flashbacks to Raab's Excalibur. Luckily it turned out better this time around though (so far at least).

Hey! :waves:

The Mainstream break up didn't bother me so much as the way that the whole relationship just disappeared after that until "Ascention". It really felt like Lance and Kitty should have at least talked to each other once they cooled off a little. At the very least their relationship should have gotten a nod in "No Good Deed".

[Cylinder 24ko]

Yeah, it always seemed rather stupid to me too. It was just so implausible to begin with... it feels like the creators never meant for it to be a romance until season two came along. I mean, yeah, he kind of flirts with her (I guess) in season one but he's still attacking her and stuff. He goes right for her in Middleverse. And then all of a sudden he worries about her safety? Pffft. I don't care if he had a change of heart or anything. It just seemed sudden and way too contrived for me.

Plus, I don't see the point in it. It felt like a waste of time to me. All of their fluffy happy relationship scenes were either boring or upsetting (to me, anyway). "Joyride" seriously made me angry, because I think it's pretty uncool to betray your teammates for a crush. In that episode, I seriously hated Lance. He didn't really redeem himself in my eyes until much later.

So yeah, I really just don't like the relationship at all. I think it's pointless, fake, and boring. I think the writers could have developed them in much more interesting ways.

[The Detective]

I like it all right. As said, it's not like Lance has tried to murder all the X-Men. I always thought the Lance/Kitty thing added a nice dynamic to the X-Men/Brotherhood rivalry. I do have to agree with Storm that I would rather see Kitty/Collussus. I thought they were sweet together in Dark Horizons.

[STARTOUNZ]

Originally Posted by Cylinder 24ko

Yeah, it always seemed rather stupid to me too. It was just so implausible to begin with... it feels like the creators never meant for it to be a romance until season two came along. I mean, yeah, he kind of flirts with her (I guess) in season one but he's still attacking her and stuff. He goes right for her in Middleverse. And then all of a sudden he worries about her safety? Pffft. I don't care if he had a change of heart or anything. It just seemed sudden and way too contrived for me.

Plus, I don't see the point in it. It felt like a waste of time to me. All of their fluffy happy relationship scenes were either boring or upsetting (to me, anyway). "Joyride" seriously made me angry, because I think it's pretty uncool to betray your teammates for a crush. In that episode, I seriously hated Lance. He didn't really redeem himself in my eyes until much later.

So yeah, I really just don't like the relationship at all. I think it's pointless, fake, and boring. I think the writers could have developed them in much more interesting ways.

The Lance and Kitty thing I felt was very overrated. I mean he practically tried to bury her, her parents, and Jean in their first episode together after he tried to manipulate her into stealing test answers and changing grades, then attacks her in "Middleverse", then suddenly they're all lovey-dovey?!? I didn't care for "Joyride" either considering they (and everyone else) seemed so stupid in that episode. The only bright moment there was Rogue knocking them back in the swimming pool after Lance screwed up the rescue simulation. The relationship was certainly pointless especially since it still looked like Lance is still with the Brotherhood from what was seen in the future visions from the end of "Ascension" (II).

[pip25]

Originally Posted by STARTOUNZ

The Lance and Kitty thing I felt was very overrated. I mean he practically tried to bury her, her parents, and Jean in their first episode together after he tried to manipulate her into stealing test answers and changing grades, then attacks her in "Middleverse", then suddenly they're all lovey-dovey?!? I didn't care for "Joyride" either considering they (and everyone else) seemed so stupid in that episode. The only bright moment there was Rogue knocking them back in the swimming pool after Lance screwed up the rescue simulation. The relationship was certainly pointless especially since it still looked like Lance is still with the Brotherhood from what was seen in the future visions from the end of "Ascension" (II).

Suddenly lovey-dovey?? Do you read the other posts before you post your own thoughts?? I would really like to hear what you think of the reasons pointed out here, because in this post you didn't reflect on them at all.

About your reasoning: Lance certainly isn't the most emotionally stable and ballanced guy around. He hates all kinds of authority figures, and originally thought of his powers as a way to rise above law and control. (In a bit of an anarchistic way. ) He is known to have a short temper, and because of that he endangered people (even his friends) more times than one. The X-Impulse scene was also something like that: As a kid in foster care, he seems to have a distorted view of family and parents (see hating authority figures again), and the act which left Kitty under a pile of rocks was the result of athoughtless emotional impulse (Kit leaving him), and he himself seemed to be horrified of what he have done. The Middleverse scene: Now involved in the whole Xavier vs. Magneto conflict, they were enemies on opposite sides, and it seemed that Lance (and Kit) wanted to act accordingly. (The first time the two teams clashed.) But even when he threatened her his words betrayed him in a sick way. And another thought: If he wanted to kill or seriously injure her he wouldn't have to resort to knocking her towards a wall... But I can accept that this last one might be a bit of wishful thinking.
And one last thing: Aside of character analysis, the one thing which was forced, fake and boring was the Bhood's "villain"-portrayal in season 1. You must think of that first before contemplating their actions in that season.

[Rogue LeBeau]

Originally Posted by Denaill

I'm really glad you pointed that out. I was a HUGE Kitty/Pete fan and I always wondered if the Kitty/Lance relationship was maybe a nod towards that.

I mean when Kitty and Lance broke up suddenly in Mainstream I was having horrible flashbacks to Raab's Excalibur. Luckily it turned out better this time around though (so far at least).

Heh. I didn't even know they were dating.