The Spectacular Spider-Man "Subtext" Talkback (Spoilers)

[Stu]

And you thought your in-laws were horrible! Catch an all-new episode of The Spectacular Spider-Man tonight at 9:00pm (ET) on Disney XD!

The Spectacular Spider-Man
Episode#24: "Subtext"
Original Premiere - November 4th, 2009

Determined to be a better boyfriend to Liz Allan, Peter Parker wishes he could help her brother Mark Allan. But when Green Goblin blackmails Mark into doing his bidding, neither Liz, Mary-Jane Watson nor Spider-Man may be able to save him!

Comments?

More details on this episode are available here!

[johnny139]

Well, I certainly didn't expect to see Molten Man. Or see Mark Allan turn into a supervillain. Or to see him turn into Molten Man. Or to see more of Blackie.

So this was a surprise episode.

Pretty entertaining, I think. Some good fight scenes, an interesting narrative choice - flashbacks and all that - and the gambling moral, while a bit heavy-handed, fit pretty well. A lot of great character stuff, too. "It's a lock!" Very natural sounding, very good choice, worked perfectly both times.

We get to see Gobbie being a manipulator - loved him trashing the bar and calling out the Master Planner - and Miles Warren turning into a full-on evil scientist type. Blackmailing Dr. Conners at the end... good stuff. We haven't seen either of them much this season, if I remember right, so, that was good.

TOTALLY weird seeing Gwen all un-geeky, too. I thought it was Sally at first, actually, before I heard her talk. Gonna be odd to adjust to. But I suppose that's the natural next step for her character.

Also, did anyone else notice the animation was kinda... off this time? It was wonky. Things kinda swelled and moved weirdly. Maybe it was just me...

[Pepperidge]

This week on The Spectacular Spider-Man: Liz can't act! Mark takes his shirt off! The Green Goblin casually murders people! And a classic villain finally makes his animated debut!

I really love this episode, especially for its take on Molten Man. Combining the characters of Mark Raxton and Bennett Brant (Betty's brother from the comics) was such an inspired move. The Blackie Gaxton story was one I felt from the start was something that should be included in any definitive retelling of the Spider-Man saga, and in many ways Spectacular proves to be a substantial improvement simply because Mark pays a far greater price for his habits than Bennett ever did.

The action is fantastic too. Kevin really went all out. I hope they can get him back for upcoming seasons.

[GregX]

Well, what can I say about this one? Heeee's baaaack... with a vengeance.

"Subtext"

There's a new Big Man in New York City. His name? The Green Goblin. With Tombstone now under surveillance and cut off from his empire, and Silvermane and Doc Ock in prison... all thanks to his machinations, the Green Goblin is stepping up to the plate and painting the town green.

In the comics, the Green Goblin was this character who always, in spite of his bizarre costume, would have me on edge whenever he showed up. You never knew what he was going to do next, except you know it would be evil and painful. Well, considering how this episode is I am going to be on the edge of my seat throughout the next two.

Liz's brother, Mark Allan, is in trouble. Big trouble. I've often said that one of the worst things you can be is a gambler. It's maybe only slightly better than being a drug addict. It's stupid and the consequences are dire. The only sure thing about gambling is the price is not worth the risk... and not worth the minute victory.

I gambled only once in my life, at the 2005 Gathering of the Gargoyles in Las Vegas. I spent, maybe an hour playing Black Jack, and when I was up $100, I stopped. I never went back. Yes, I won. But I felt it. I felt how easy it was to sink into it, and walked away.

Mark, well... he ended up owing money to a bookie and hood named Blackie Gaxton, who as we saw in the last episode worked for Tombstone. And now, he's working for the Green Goblin. And what does Gobby want? A guinea pig for a new supervillain. You all know where this is going...

Mark gets his powers, courtesy of Norman Osborn's new scientist, Miles Warren (whom I expected). The poor boy thinks he's done, is even given $100 and sent on his way. Well, here comes the tragedy. He can't control his new powers at all. The Green Goblin is in control of him. And now, he's become the Molten Man, and he's at the Goblin's beck and call.

The Goblin has one simple demand, kill Spider-Man. Not distract him, like Tombstone was attempting to do. Kill him. As we can see, the Goblin is looking to be a more dangerous Big Man than his predecessor. Helps when you're psychotic.

Oh, and I don't think you need to be a genius to figure the Goblin had no intention of letting Mark out of his clutches even after he killed Spider-Man.
Meanwhile, Mary Jane and Liz are concerned, and like Spidey, track Mark down. Poor Mary Jane, she got more attached to Mark than she expected.
Things do not end well.

So, Molten Man is defeated, and taken away. Mary Jane and Liz have been emotionally wrecked, and the Goblin is just cackling his green head off and plotting his next move.

Peter tried to salvage his relationship with Liz, but, the writing is on the wall... there's not much there to salvage. But, watching this, I can't help but wish them luck.

Gwen Stacy has kept her new look, and damn she looks fine (but, I do miss the glasses). Harry is a lucky guy... um... too bad the writing on the wall here spells doomed as well.

Of course, I would fail at life if I didn't bother mentioning Miles Warren here. Even with my knowledge of the character in the comics, it's still shocking to see this jackal slowly getting worse and worse before our eyes. When we first met him, he seemed, well, normal. Next episode he is profiting off of Kraven, and carrying guns on school property. Then, he seized administrative control of the lab from the Connors, but he was right, security under them has been lacking. But here... supervillain in the making. This jackal is probably the most vile character in the series.

As for the story. Greg Weisman combined the characters of Mark Raxton (he was Liz's step-brother in the comics) and Bennett Brant (Betty Brant's brother) into one. Bennett was a gambler who fell into debt with Blackie Gaxton and was killed over it. In a way, I think this is more tragic and I cannot help but be reminded of the "Gargoyles" episodes, "Metamorphosis" where Elisa Maza's brother, Derek is transformed by David Xanatos into a bat-winged, feline mutate named Talon.

Two episodes left to go, and, honestly, and this is saying how well done this show is, but... I'm actually scared for the cast. It just feels like nobody is safe. usually on TV, especially in cartoons, the cast is safe. You don't have that feeling of dread because tragedies are usually not allowed to befall them. But, here? We're approaching the season finale, and that usually means a shake-up is coming, and here I think it will be a tragic one.

The Green Goblin is back... and I have no idea what he's going to do next. God help them.

[Mistah K88]

I loved Goblin in this (as I always have in this series) with him being so witty and Joker esque (DCAU Joker to be exact) it will deliver a great contrast with the personality of Hobgoblin...who is supposed to be "sane". Speaking of Hobgoblin, I wonder if Kingsley will show up once this arc.

Sure this episode cements my belief that the Goblin is Norman and only Norman even more than normal, given that the Goblin knew how the Mark's powers worked and his newfound love of blackmail; however, Harry's little drug speech was an interesting touch.

Gobby is weird enough that no one would take him seriously as a crime boss, however, he gives them good reason to take him seriously as he really whooped the people in the bar with little effort. There's no way those people could have survived that explosion, despite us seeing their bodies as Goblin flies by (whith the smoke coving thier faces [good touch]). Glad to see him casually murdering people now.

It is nice to know that Peter learned from his Lizard mistake a few months back and doesn't take pictures of EVERY Spidey battle.

Speaking of lizards, Miles Warren is a snake. Knowing that he doesn't have to hide his experimentation because Curt Connors will be exposed if he doesn't keep his mouth shut. There is nothing the Connors can do about Warren...
Also, can we get Debra to speak and appear one time [more than 2 seconds]? (I kind of want to see if it is someone BESIDES Cree Summer [she's already Glory anyway], like the Kingsleys weren't voiced by Phil Lamarr, Kevin M. Richardson, or Keith David) Atleast we see Hobbie, we barely see the gal....

[Rick Jones]

Originally Posted by Pepperidge

The Green Goblin casually murders people!

I don't recall this bit.

[Wonderwall]

Originally Posted by Rick Jones

I don't recall this bit.

If I'm right( its been awhile since Ive seen this episode ) its when he bursts into the bar and tells the guy to hold the pumpkin bomb.

[DawnWarrior]

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-1...eview--Subtext

I’d like to take a second to talk about Steven J. Blum. I first became familiar with him on Cowboy Bebop where he played the lead role of Spike Spiegel. Since then, he popped up in lead and supporting roles in many Anime dubs (Big O, GTO, Naruto) as well as the voice of Tom, the host of Cartoon Network’s Anime-centric block Toonami. From what I saw of his work (most of which I enjoyed very much), his voice seemed to have two basic settings: stoic bad-ass hero, and stoic bad-ass villain. Then he appears on Spectacular as the Green Goblin, and thoroughly blew me away. I am reminded of the version of Joker on Batman: The Animated Series. That character was portrayed by Mark Hamill, who had emerged from years of semi-retirement and stagework after his iconic role as Luke Skywalker. It was hard to believe the same guy who played the heroic farmboy-turned-Jedi was also the voice of Batman’s greatest foe (Hamill’s normal voice had changed rather dramatically since we last saw him), and his portrayal was a revelation, particularly the Joker’s iconic laugh. Blum, besides also voicing Blackie Gaxton and Chameleon on this series, gives it his all playing Goblin, providing the Emerald Elf with a voice that is an obnoxiously joyous mix of Truman Capote and Pazuzu. “Good news, lowlifes!” he shouts in that trademark cackle, “The city’s gone Green!” Blum is also the official voice of a certain canuckle-head on Wolverine and the X-Men and other media.

But while the Goblin takes his seat as the Big Bad for the rest of the season, the main character of the episode is Mark Allen, a.k.a. Molten Man. Molten Man has always been a second-stringer in the comics (usually a villain, sometimes a hero), and has gotten next to no play in other media. Going back and reading his earliest stories in the Essentials, he comes off as quite one-dimensional and incompetent (with the later revelation that he’s Liz’s half-brother seeming rather tacked-on). Spectacular sets up Mark as Liz’s full brother and a classmate of Peter’s, while also making him Hispanic like Liz and able to work his Latin charm on a certain redhead. Here, Mark is very much a victim of circumstance, unable to recover from his sketchy past before he is inadvertently shanghaied into being a flunky for the Goblin. As he is transformed into a lava-powered menace, he is unable to call on the maturity or experience to deal with the consequences of his actions or his new powers. Since Spider-Man has paid the price for his own lack of maturity on several occasions, it’s easy to see Molten Man as a window into how Peter becoming Spider-Man could have gone horribly wrong.

Rather than let any episode just sit around and be “average,” the writers throw a curveball by showing the events of “Subtext” out of chronological order, starting with Spidey in mid-battle against Molten Man with Liz and MJ in peril, and gradually revealing the multiple story strands that led to the encounter. It's a device that is used effectively, even if it still feels a tad gimmicky. Additionally, the preparation and rehearsal of “A Midsummer Night’s Dream” continues as a framing device, as does the running gag where Hobie Brown never quite manages to speak.

“Subtext” is directed by Kevin Altieri, a mainstay of the glory days of Batman: TAS, among other shows. The episode is written by Nicole Dubuc, who also wrote the episode “Growing Pains” earlier this season that turned John Jameson into Colonel Jupiter.
Next week, DisneyXD airs the penultimate episode of Season 2, "Opening Night."

[W.C.Reaf]

I loved the nod to one of their previous running gags, with Goblin 'shuddering' when he said Master Planner had a "wonderful personality".

Great episode. The team knocked another one out of the park as they've been doing all season. Great job guys.

[GWOtaku]

Well, this certainly showed off the Goblin's villainy as he settles in as a crime lord, and all the scenes with Mary Jane and Liz were probably the best part. Peter was secondary compared to what they went through here. They're hurting and it's all Gobby's fault, so by this point we have plenty of reason to hate him going into the last two episodes of the season.

I think Gobby is worse than Miles, but Miles is despicable. The only downside is that his descent into evil and Connors' entrapment are things that would probably fully play out in a third season, so...Marvel! Ahem. Hurry up.

My only nitpick, which is just a small one, is Mark. Mark's situation was tragic, but while we knew he had a criminal past his return to gambling could have at least been hinted at in an earlier episode. The "no more doctors!" thing was a bit odd too, you'd think that he'd take a chance on anything that would get him out of his situation and out of doing something that he never really wanted to do. I suppose they want to keep growing the rogues gallery, but it's pretty much a forgone conclusion how reluctant villains are going to turn out. This is nothing unique to SSM, I'm just venting a bit.

Very much looking forward to how the finale is handled.

[DawnWarrior]

Originally Posted by GWOtaku

My only nitpick, which is just a small one, is Mark. Mark's situation was tragic, but while we knew he had a criminal past his return to gambling could have at least been hinted at in an earlier episode.

It was, kinda, last episode when we saw Mark approaching Blackie during the shindig at the hotel.

Good to see that Gwen is sticking with the no-glasses look. I can see how Peter would be thrown by this cause...woah. I would be happy to see her go lens-free for the duration of the series. (Season 3? Please?)

I noticed Liz has a cat. Anyone know the cat’s name, from the comics perhaps?

And I cannot get enough of Blum's Green Goblin. "The city's gone Green!!" is my new favorite line.

[Lightning Tiger]

I tell you Goby really knows how to lay down the cruelty in this series, poor Mark. Anyway, great episode, things are heating up now with Goblin being in control of the city.

[Aza]

This was a good episode. It had introdiced me to a new villian in spidey's world which was Molten Man. Anyways the only thing I probably didn't like about the episode was the flashbacks but when I thought about it, it had made sense seeing as to what was happening in the minds of all the time with all the main characters in the show.

[DawnWarrior]

Originally Posted by DawnWarrior

It was, kinda, last episode when we saw Mark approaching Blackie during the shindig at the hotel.

Just watched "Gangland" again, and sure enough, Mark sits down with Blackie all friendly, and the next thing we know he's tossing a hundred to the basket girl and passing out roses, then Liz glares at him. So there you go, GWO.

[Anwar]

Also, in "First Steps" one of the kids approached Mark and told him about a bet and if he wanted in. Mark said "I don't do that stuff anymore", which we now know was the gambling thing.

[Nygma]

Originally Posted by johnny139

Also, did anyone else notice the animation was kinda... off this time? It was wonky. Things kinda swelled and moved weirdly. Maybe it was just me...

Personally I thought the animation in this episode was much, MUCH stronger than the animation in Gangland.

[ShadowStar]

Originally Posted by Nygma

Personally I thought the animation in this episode was much, MUCH stronger than the animation in Gangland.

There was some stunning animation in the pre-credits sequence, but later, when Miles Warren was trying to calm Molten Man down, the animation was noticably off. There were other moments throughout the episode where there was some strange animation going on: during the scene where the Goblin first entered Blackie's club, as well as when Spidey, MJ and Liz were all backing away from Molten Man.

[Nygma]

Originally Posted by ShadowStar

There was some stunning animation in the pre-credits sequence, but later, when Miles Warren was trying to calm Molten Man down, the animation was noticably off. There were other moments throughout the episode where there was some strange animation going on: during the scene where the Goblin first entered Blackie's club, as well as when Spidey, MJ and Liz were all backing away from Molten Man.

Maybe in a few spots there were. But the animation was alot sleeker in this episode than in Gangland.

[R-Taco]

Originally Posted by Nygma

Maybe in a few spots there were. But the animation was alot sleeker in this episode than in Gangland.

I gotta disagree. When Hanho's stuff looks great, it looks great, but when it looks bad, it looks really bad. They're stretchy and bouncy, but they go off-model a lot and overall it's an animation style better suited to cartoonier designs (as in ones without consistent proportions).

[ShadowStar]

Originally Posted by R-Taco

I gotta disagree. When Hanho's stuff looks great, it looks great, but when it looks bad, it looks really bad. They're stretchy and bouncy, but they go off-model a lot and overall it's an animation style better suited to cartoonier designs (as in ones without consistent proportions).

Agreed. That's a problem that I had with Lotto (one of the animation studios that worked on Teen Titans) as well.