Knights of the Zodiac: Is it's Future in the U.S. Bleak?

[Brent Long]

Since late August, KotZ has aired once-a-week on the S.V.E.S. block. Partway through it's run it was taken from it's convenient prime-time slot, and moved to a late-night slot, only two slots away from the end of the block. With the show's target audience being children or tweens', this looked bleak for KotZ. Four months after it premieres and in a way tanks. The merchandise comes. As in January, action figures, manga, and a card game will be released (actually the figures are available online, at bigbadtoystore.com). Usually merchandise lengthens a franchise's popularity and circulation, and to sell merchandise. The media that the merchandise is based on has to be popular. KotZ hit the U.S. with only media and no merchandise, perhaps it's downfall. CN picked up 40 episodes, and it seems like deadweight on the network. Is KotZ a failure, and what effects will this have on the unedited Saint Seiya release?

[DianaGohan]

No offense, but everything about Knights Of The Zodiac is a failure:

The dub's a failure

The ratings are failure

The timeslot's a failure

The promotion's a failure

And chances are, the merchandise will be a failure too.

Not sure about the Saint Saiya DVD's though. I saw a lot of them in Best Buy, so they may become a success, but nothing else probably will.

[Infinity Blade]

Not sure about the Saint Saiya DVD's though. I saw a lot of them in Best Buy, so they may become a success, but nothing else probably will.

Well, the manga could possibly do semi-well. Can't do worse than the show, at least. :p Nowhere to go but up...

[livingfruitvirus]

zodiac is doing awful. no one's watching!

in summary, when it comes to the mainstream, this show is too little too late

[Batmex]

Thank you DIC for ruining my fav anime, thanks to you it is a failure. :(

[DianaGohan]

in summary, when it comes to the mainstream, this show is too little too late

Straight from the horses mouth... well someone in charge up there.

OT, but I have a question for livingfruitvirus while I'm here: Whose Delirious Artist anyway? I'm just asking because he knows of me somehow and I don't of him. So can you tell me LFV?

[Nin-Nin69]

DIC's attempt to make Saint Seya for a mainstream audience failed a long time ago. And let this be a lesson to you anime companies. Don't pull a KotZ, Card Captor, Initial D, or a Yu-Gi-Oh! .

[Yash]

That's what DiC deserves.

*pricks hand* LOOK MOMMY! BLUE BLOOD!

[Master Moron]

You know, when Sailor Moon first came out I seem to remember DiC coming out with a bunch of merchandise no one bought as well(except for me, but they were on sale when I bought it).

[Sketch]

It is entirely a failure (other than the manga) yet Bandai plans on releasing all kinds of merchandise... even a card game. Bandai said they "expect it to be the next big thing in the US" and I suppose the merch could be good but we all know the show has failed in every sense of the word.

[Dragon_Shiryu]

Definitely a failure. The way it was handled doesn't make sense either. They ripped to shreds the original source and make it suitable for 3 year olds, yet they air it first at an hour were probably teens are the ones watching the channel. Then they still stick with the butchered mode and change it to 12:30 were there's no chance in hell little kids will stay awake to watch it. I mean, couldn't they have decided what age group they should've targeted it at?

Part of the failure also is that it's old, but it'd be sad if we see DiC put the blame solely on that rather than their extremely poor job.

But the DVDs for StS seem to be selling rather well :D. Besides fans from around the world importing them, it seems to have gathered attention because of the Newtype promotion (since many saw how different both versions are). And when I went shopping a few days ago, I saw some volumes at Borders and Suncoast, and next day there were none (the Kenshin boxsets were also snatched, as well as RahXephon). At least I'm sure the DVDs are doing decent enough.

For the manga, I'm not sure. Viz didn't even preview much at all (since StS chapters are around 40 pages, instead of the usual 20 or so from now). And I hope their decision to stick to the name and dub names doesn't backfire and scares customers away rather than making them curious :sweat:

That's especially bad, considering 3 games have been announced based on the series (but for a release in France). One has been confirmed to be an RPG, and the other a fighter. The third one remains a mistery. Had the series been succesful perhaps those could be translated to these shores (A faithful translation though, I really don't want to play them with Hyouga shouting "dude" :sad:, or Seiya making lame puns every time he talks)

[RobochangerEX]

I wouldn't write of KOTZ just yet... it's still in it's initail run. After all 40 eps are compleat ( if they aren't already ) the series could get a daily airing in a new timeslot more kid friendly. If CN doesn't want it anymore Bandai could see to it that is picked up by ABC Family or Syndicated. All of which will be good for the show. Even KOTZ would be easier to watch on a daily basis.

Personally I hate that butchered peice of crap.... I mean HATE !... but with the support or merchendice it could easily grow quickly in popularity.

INMO though I truely believe the US is ready for more maturity in it's kid shows. Saint Seiya could air unedited if they showed some balls. SS has always been a kids show... and it is acceptible around the world as is, except in the US. Dic removed nearly everything that made SS a great show... all that is left is the character designs and dated animation.

If Bandai were smart about this though... both versions of the show should air... KOTZ on Toonami ( or before ) weekdays ( to catch the kid collectors ) and SS unedited on Adult Swim (to catch the adult collectors ).

I'm almost positive though we will see KOTZ get a beter timeslot sometime in the first quarter, either on CN or someplace else.

[Dragon_Shiryu]

If Bandai were smart about this though... both versions of the show should air... KOTZ on Toonami ( or before ) weekdays ( to catch the kid collectors ) and SS unedited on Adult Swim (to catch the adult collectors ).

I'm almost positive though we will see KOTZ get a beter timeslot sometime in the first quarter, either on CN or someplace else.

Bandai has nothing to do with either KotZ nor StS anime in the US. DiC made the butcher, while ADV Films releases the original on DVD (they'll also distribute DiC's version though). Since ADV doesn't get involved with anime on TV (besides the animenetwork), they sublicensed StS to DiC to make a TV version, instead of airing their dub.

[Brent Long]

Then they still stick with the butchered mode

Well I'm sure they wouldn't deliberately go back and change them, when the time-slot changed.

[Brent Long]

Considering some of Adult Swim's shows edit track record, Saint seiya wouldn't air completely unedited on Adult Swim. Saint Seiya has battles where the blood shed of one person, is equal to the amount of blood in five humans.

Yeah I also think it would have done alot better as a weekday show, maybe in the slot TMNT has now, on Toonami, or maybe on Prime-time. Just not once-a-week. Once-A-Week works for shows that get good quickly, not shows like Saint Seiya that don't really get too interesting until about episode 15.

[shoujoaifan]

Believe it or not, I have a younger sister whom ACTUALLY likes this show! She now gets me to tape it for her so she can see it later the next day. Which reminds me, I've been slacking off and should show her last night's.

[seiya1729]

Believe it or not, I have a younger sister whom ACTUALLY likes this show! She now gets me to tape it for her so she can see it later the next day. Which reminds me, I've been slacking off and should show her last night's.

saint seiya gets more interesting in a few more episodes.

[Juu-kuchi]

saint seiya gets more interesting in a few more episodes.

Too bad we were turned off because of KOTZ to even care about seeing what the interesting stuff is.

It's a dismal failure, and I could tell even if I've only seen one episode.

[Mysteryinfoman]

When I first heard SS was coming to the US, I was hoping all this merchandise would hit stores by the time the show went on air, but I don't think there is any hope left for KOTZ. I don't think CN is willing enough to redub, and I think this yet again proves, old anime won't do good in the ratings.

[Egyptpower]

Originally Posted by Dragon_Shiryu
But the DVDs for StS seem to be selling rather well . Besides fans from around the world importing them, it seems to have gathered attention because of the Newtype promotion (since many saw how different both versions are). And when I went shopping a few days ago, I saw some volumes at Borders and Suncoast, and next day there were none (the Kenshin boxsets were also snatched, as well as RahXephon). At least I'm sure the DVDs are doing decent enough.

Well, it's good to know that the DVD is doing fine, since so many old animes become big sellers on DVDs (Mobile Suit Gundam, City Hunter, Speed Racer)

[Leo Arcadia]

I'd say Saint Sayia won't do too well, as a DiC dub or a main anime. It's very old-style anime, which conflicts with a lot of the newer stuff that is already reaching America. It would have fared better if someone had brought it to our shores many years ago. It's too late now.

[seiya1729]

I'd say Saint Sayia won't do too well, as a DiC dub or a main anime. It's very old-style anime, which conflicts with a lot of the newer stuff that is already reaching America. It would have fared better if someone had brought it to our shores many years ago. It's too late now.

I think dic is the problem. The series is good, but with blue blood and kids dialgoues. :sad:

[seiya1729]

Too bad we were turned off because of KOTZ to even care about seeing what the interesting stuff is.

It's a dismal failure, and I could tell even if I've only seen one episode.

Is ok, its weird to see blue blood and dic horrible dialogue.

In my case is different, I saw saint seiya with a decent dialogue and red blood. :D

I just continue watching it because, saint seiya is my favorite anime. Dic version sucks, but I'm still watching.

[Supernovametalstar]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall reading something a long time ago from a pretty reliable source (can't remember where, though. It might have been Animerica magazine) that said when CN wanted Dic to do more Sailor Moon episodes, the network told them not to edit the show to death and leave in the original music. If this is accurate, if CN had the pull to ask Dic to do that for SM then, why not KOTZ now? With its dated animation, surely at least CN saw that editing a show that much would leave a sour taste in the mouths of the older people that saw the show when they were younger. And those that might have been seeing it for the first time would probably forgive the old animation in favor of the more mature violence level.

[EscaflownePilot]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall reading something a long time ago from a pretty reliable source (can't remember where, though. It might have been Animerica magazine) that said when CN wanted Dic to do more Sailor Moon episodes, the network told them not to edit the show to death and leave in the original music. If this is accurate, if CN had the pull to ask Dic to do that for SM then, why not KOTZ now? With its dated animation, surely at least CN saw that editing a show that much would leave a sour taste in the mouths of the older people that saw the show when they were younger. And those that might have been seeing it for the first time would probably forgive the old animation in favor of the more mature violence level.That was when Cloverway took over the dubbing - DiC wasn't involved with those episodes as far as I know.

CN also did this with FUNimation and Dragon Ball Z - they made it clear they could handle looser standards than those used back when Saban was in charge.

Really, though, even if CN did ask DiC to use looser standards with KotZ, DiC isn't going to. In case you haven't noticed, shows that carry the looser standards CN is accustomed to haven't aired anywhere BUT CN even though they've had a few chances here and there (namely Toonami on Kids' WB!). Ever wondered why the Saban eps of DBZ were the only ones to air on Kids' WB even though I think CN was well into the Cell Saga when KWB was interested in the show? Because I highly doubt Kids' WB! wanted to show the traces of blood and stuff that CN allowed on the later eps of DBZ.

DiC wants options - if KotZ is a horrible failure on CN (which it is) or a much better offer comes along, DiC probably wants to know they can take it to Kids' WB!, Fox Box, ABC Family, or syndication without any hassles. So why should they edit to standards that only one kids' network allows, when they could easily edit to the standards that all the kids' networks will allow so they can easily shop the show around again if need be?

[Dragon_Shiryu]

I don't think the editing will be loosened a little because of the license being split in two. I doubt they can do such a thing since ADV is releasing the series as it's supposed to be (with the music, original story, original personalities, etc, etc, etc). I only can think of DiC's only other option instead of making it closer to the real version would at least be making an at least decent dub, with characters talking at least bearable things (doubtful though).

[Crimefighter]

I'd like to say that I am still watching the show, there's frankly little else on that perks my interest. If they've only acquired 40 episodes they are most certainly not going to get to the end of the series which it is a shame. Have to say though ANN has not given the Saint Seiya DVDs any good reviews, the first one pretty much all F's.

[HellCat]

Well, it's good to know that the DVD is doing fine, since so many old animes become big sellers on DVDs (Mobile Suit Gundam, City Hunter, Speed Racer)

If MSG is such a good seller, why are the DVDs so rare? You can easily get copies of G, Wing, 0080, 0083 and 08th MS, but most places have the original series on Special Order where they won't get copies unless someone specifically asks for them.

Back to the matter at hand- From what I've heard DiC's been doing, it does sound like the problem is that they still fail to see that America is now more accepting of anime. Its also harder to pull the wool over kids eyes when they can come to places like this and find out what has been cut and changed. Hopefully it'll make its way over here (Imagawa has said it inspired one of the directions G Gundam went in).

[Master Moron]

That was when Cloverway took over the dubbing - DiC wasn't involved with those episodes as far as I know.

CN also did this with FUNimation and Dragon Ball Z - they made it clear they could handle looser standards than those used back when Saban was in charge.


This is actually the first I've heard of this. But, it doesn't really make any sense. If CN ordered Cloverway to keep the original music in Sailor Moon why didn't they order Dragonball Z to have the original music as well? Also, why on earth did the Cloverway episodes still have script changes and pointless edits if Cartoon Network didn't want them to?

[Karin_Aoi]

I'd like to say that I am still watching the show, there's frankly little else on that perks my interest. If they've only acquired 40 episodes they are most certainly not going to get to the end of the series which it is a shame. Have to say though ANN has not given the Saint Seiya DVDs any good reviews, the first one pretty much all F's.

But the ANN reviews have never been reliable at all :p (AoD is the place for that). Only good thing out of that site is the Encyclopedia, but the staff sucks. Also, head out to the ANN forums and see how no one agreed with the reviewer :D Anyway, reviews are only guidelines. ANN gave it a bad score, AoD gave it a neutral score for the first volume, a good score for the second, Japan Hero gave it an "A" score, etc. So, you can see all depends on what the viewer likes ;)

[A SAint]

I'd like to say that I am still watching the show, there's frankly little else on that perks my interest. If they've only acquired 40 episodes they are most certainly not going to get to the end of the series which it is a shame. Have to say though ANN has not given the Saint Seiya DVDs any good reviews, the first one pretty much all F's.

You judge a series by yourself, not by other's opinions...You could love one show to death yet i could show a disliking as well.

[seiya1729]

I'd like to say that I am still watching the show, there's frankly little else on that perks my interest. If they've only acquired 40 episodes they are most certainly not going to get to the end of the series which it is a shame. Have to say though ANN has not given the Saint Seiya DVDs any good reviews, the first one pretty much all F's.

keep watching, two or tree episodes more, and it would start to get more interesting.

too bad there are only 40 episodes :shrug:

[Joneleth]

Well in fact I think it's better to stop the series then, because what whould Dic do with the Gold Saint arc?

Doommask, the thiefwho steals masks from people.
Shaka, the freaking hippie.
Shura going on a trip with Shiryu.
Camus the worlds snowboard shampion.
Aphrodite the woman.

No thanks!

[Karin_Aoi]

keep watching, two or tree episodes more, and it would start to get more interesting.

too bad there are only 40 episodes :shrug:

I'm not sure about that (for the KotZ version). All the good scenes so far have been either edited, or completely lost their appeal due to the changes in the dialogue and music. And that definitely won't change.

[foncedé_o_sky]

What s ANN, do you have an URL?
I d like to read this review.

[Roger Smith]

I still remember Saint Seiya when i was a kid but in mexico cartoons are more like GONE TV Azteca use to air Some Anime even the Super Book or some Movie from Toei But they all got replaced by trash for people who cant think like Reality shows or eentrataniment shows who only do replay and disney thingys so its more than Gone and thats for the people who dont have cable pretty sad..
even kids are spending there time watching that..

[Egyptpower]

Originally Posted by Crimefighter
say though ANN has not given the Saint Seiya DVDs any good reviews, the first one pretty much all F's.

Well how about the review made by Japan Hero (one of the best english sites with resources and information on japanese anime and live action shows) at http://www.japanhero.com/animation%20hero%20reviews/saint_seiya.htm

[Batmex]

Well in fact I think it's better to stop the series then, because what whould Dic do with the Gold Saint arc?

Doommask, the thiefwho steals masks from people.
Shaka, the freaking hippie.
Shura going on a trip with Shiryu.
Camus the worlds snowboard shampion.
Aphrodite the woman.

No thanks!

You forgot:

Saga the redneck
Aldebaran the hispanic amigo! :D

[Crimefighter]

What s ANN, do you have an URL?
I d like to read this review.

Anime News Network. www.animenewsnetwork.com

What episode are we up to anyway?

[seiya1729]

You forgot:

Saga the redneck
Aldebaran the hispanic amigo! :D

I'm not sure, but I heard Aldebaran is from Brazil.

[seiya1729]

I visit this website
http://www.advfilms.com/catalog/catalog_item.asp?c=&f=S&s=31&i=178&v=979

What do they mean by DVD Region 0

[Yash]

I visit this website
http://www.advfilms.com/catalog/catalog_item.asp?c=&f=S&s=31&i=178&v=979

What do they mean by DVD Region 0

It means it can be played in every region.

[Brent Long]

I'm wondering how they'll handle Misty.

[MrBananagrabber]

I don't think DIC necessarily damned this show. Having seen a few episodes in Japanese, I don't see any realistic way that it could be popular with the mainstream. It's old and campy. Compare Saint Seiya to something like Teen Titans. If you were a kid, honestly, which one would you watch?

[seiya1729]

I'm wondering how they'll handle Misty.

like a gay :rolleyes:

who knows, maybe they give him a diferent personality. :D

[seiya1729]

I don't think DIC necessarily damned this show. Having seen a few episodes in Japanese, I don't see any realistic way that it could be popular with the mainstream. It's old and campy. Compare Saint Seiya to something like Teen Titans. If you were a kid, honestly, which one would you watch?


which episodes did you watch?

there are 114 episodes, the first 20 or 30 episodes arent that great, but still is a good anime.

I saw saint seiya in spanish, it have a decent dialogue, and I liked the story and background music. I think is a pretty good anime.

[Batmex]

I'm not sure, but I heard Aldebaran is from Brazil.

Yes he is but:

Well they turned the half Russian-half Japanese Hyoga who lived in an ice north pole into a Surf Dude.

[Pepperidge]

I think DiC got their hands in it because a television deal is the only way a series this long could ever be licensed.

Bad thing, overall. But a means to an end, I suppose.

[MrBananagrabber]

which episodes did you watch?

there are 114 episodes, the first 20 or 30 episodes arent that great, but still is a good anime.

I saw saint seiya in spanish, it have a decent dialogue, and I liked the story and background music. I think is a pretty good anime.

I saw the first DVD, a friend rented it.

See, you're watching the show because you've seen another version of it, know what happens, enjoy it, etc. But, they're not targetting anime fans or people who've seen the show from other countries. For those people, yes, I could see the show possibly making some money. But to the general public and children? I don't see it happening, uncut or not.

[Brent Long]

Personally, I think Dic could have done a much better jub by cutting and splicing about the first 20 episodes of Saint Seiya. When I heard that Dic got it, I actually hoped that they would. As I've said alot, Saint seiya didn't get good until about the 15th episode, and I'm not really a tough critic. For most it won't get good til about episode 30! If only Toei didn't have to have all this Docrates, and Ghost Saint filler created in the first place.

[shogunthethird]

here's a thought, quit DICing around with the Kotz dub and bring on Saint Saiya, I mean if they can run Gundam Wing uncut why not this? about the only thing Kotz has done for me is what Kenshin did: gave me a huge desire to borrow the uncut series from friends of mine and watch it like that

[Brent Long]

Gundam Wing only had minor dialogue issues. Saint Seiya has an inhuman amount of blood squirting in the fights. As a matter of fact it gets kind of annoying in that sense. Also Saint Seiya has quite a few characters with gender issues.

[Egyptpower]

Originally Posted by Brendon Small
As a matter of fact it gets kind of annoying in that sense. Also Saint Seiya has quite a few characters with gender issues.
Yeah, the best examples are Silver Saint Misty, when i first saw him I thought he was a girl, and Gold Aris Saint Mu,and Gold Pisces Saint Ahphrodite those two were voiced by women in the French dub.

[A SAint]

Yeah, the best examples are Silver Saint Misty, when i first saw him I thought he was a girl, and Gold Aris Saint Mu,and Gold Pisces Saint Ahphrodite those two were voiced by women in the French dub.
Don't leave Shun out..:D