PDA

View Full Version : War on Concepts(Terrorism, AIDS, Drugs...)


JohnCrichton
12-19-2003, 12:55 PM
These are my friend, OverdrivePrime's words, because he says it best. Over at my friends' private message board, there's unfortunately only one guy there of the conservative standpoint and everyone takes turns throwing rocks at him for saying things like:


I just want to say..right from the start in his FIRST speach about the war on terrorism and in speaches afterward he said this would be a "long" war. I didn't realize what he meant at the time, but I thaught it was interesting that he said the word long. I really didn't think anyone in political power would ever have the strength to do what is right, to fight the evil of the world in any location at anytime. Isn't that one of the greatest things a person can do, face evil at any location? In fact, I don't think I will ever forget the look on his face when he said that. I didn't think he was serious. Now that I learned to realize a few things, I hope he meant its never ending. A war on terrorism is a war without end. I hope you all realize that now as I do, and you should feel proud to have a president that has taken the chance to do such a great dead for those who have suffered and to protect those who would have suffered. You think that terrorism will go away if a bunch of do-nothings are in charge? No, it won't. Will we stop it, alas, we won't even with our best efforts. We are too late. The do-nothings have lead us to this time. But, will we help more people than if we watch the world go by and do nothing. Yes. This war better be never ending. Because the day it ends, that is the day we failed.

signature:
Better luck next life.


Then ODP steps in with a rant of wisdom that I felt just needed to be posted up here:


Look, I know that this is hard to understand, but you can't make war on a concept. Terrorism has been a scourge to humanity since the invention of weapons. It as much a part of the human equation as war and greed are. Most terrorists think of themselves as freedom fighters. They think that they are standing up to opression and that they are the ones who are fighting evil.

And do you know what perpetuates the creation of more terrorists? Further strong-armed tactics by the percieved opressor. For every person that our soldiers kill, they leave behind a child with a greatly increased potential to grow up hating the USA, hating capitalism, and hating infidel dog western culture. Violence can only create more violence. You seem like you would call yourself a Christian. Where in the teachings of Jesus does he say, "If you think someone is evil, you must slay them, impoverish their families, mock their culture and desecrate their lands?" Jesus says nothing of the sort. Violence only begets more violence, and the cycle of killing and atrocities can only be stopped when someone with a superior mind has the courage and will to say, "I will not fight."

Do you know the only repeatedly proven, effective way to stop violence? Education. It's not the instant gratification method that I know most conservatives prefer, but it is the only method that works. Through education we can reach these people and their children, teach them to stand on their own two feet, instead of cowering behind a gun or rocket launcher.

Guns have always been the tools of the desperate, and the first resort of the weak hearted, ever since their creation. Simply because the people that hate us are desperate does not mean that we should sink to their level, just because some Americans are bloodthirsty and ignorant. Rather, if we truly want to solve the problem of terrorism, we must combat the causes that lie in our own nation. We must work to educate the people of cultures that resort to terrorism that violence gets them nowhere, while education provides the key to rising above and living a prosperous and enriching life.


signature:
"We're losing the war on AIDS. And drugs. And poverty. And terror. But we sure took it to those Nazis. Man, those were the days." - Glen Luther, Systems Analyst (http://www.theonion.com/3948/wdyt.html)

wonderfly
12-19-2003, 01:45 PM
I really didn't think anyone in political power would ever have the strength to do what is right, to fight the evil of the world in any location at anytime. Isn't that one of the greatest things a person can do, face evil at any location?


Ah, but he forgets: there is no concept of evil. :rolleyes: Sorry, thinking back to someone's words in another thread...



You seem like you would call yourself a Christian. Where in the teachings of Jesus does he say, "If you think someone is evil, you must slay them, impoverish their families, mock their culture and desecrate their lands?" Jesus says nothing of the sort.




It doesn't say that anywhere in Jesus' teachings. But where is the evidence that's what America is practicing?


Violence only begets more violence, and the cycle of killing and atrocities can only be stopped when someone with a superior mind has the courage and will to say, "I will not fight."


Liberal: OK, America. You heard the man. Let's stop fighting terrorist.

Terrorist: Thanks, America! You just made it easier for me to kill you! *shoots America and the Liberal dead*



Do you know the only repeatedly proven, effective way to stop violence? Education. It's not the instant gratification method that I know most conservatives prefer, but it is the only method that works. Through education we can reach these people and their children, teach them to stand on their own two feet, instead of cowering behind a gun or rocket launcher.


It's kinda hard for them to be educated when their being ruled with an iron fist by dictators. First we remove the dictators, THEN we begin to educate them....


Rather, if we truly want to solve the problem of terrorism, we must combat the causes that lie in our own nation.


Of course! I should've realized! It's all America's fault. Again. Man, we're a despicable nation.

JohnCrichton
12-19-2003, 02:05 PM
His major point is this "Violence only begets more violence, and the cycle of killing and atrocities can only be stopped when someone with a superior mind has the courage and will to say, "I will not fight."

No idiot is saying that we should not defend ourselves, but yeah... combatting a concept like terrorism with military might won't beat them into submission, but give them something tangible to hate.

Terrorist are born out of fear and hatred, not a Cobra like desire to take over the world. It breeds evil people and evil deeds, but from their perspective they are fighting for good, home and country against an oppressive force.

And how do you stop people who feel they're fighting for justice? More fighting? More hatred?

His point is that there's a better way to solve this and it's not through more violence to pay back violence.

JohnCrichton
12-19-2003, 02:39 PM
There are no restraints at the other message board, so I'll edit for TZ:


http://www.japanhero.com/forums/html/emoticons/lol.gifHa! It's Wonderfly! Well, good to see that he's still trying to oversimplify things so as to make things an all or nothing solution.

Fanatics, specially conservative fanatics seem to do that a lot. They come out with asinine statements like, "You can either fight terrorists or let them sneak into your house and *bleep!* your dog." Uh Oh! I don't want my dog to get *bleep!*-ed by terrorists, I better tell my congressman to approve a ridiculous, pork-ridden spending bill so that my dog's [stuffnjunk] are preserved!

Arguments like that are just plain [wack], as is Wonderfly's "If you don't fight, you'll get shot" response.

Life is not a True/False test. You get more than two choices for every problem. Usually there are dozens, if not hundreds of choices for every problem. But nope, we better go kill as many terrorists as we can find, so that they don't drive out to Sheboygan, WI, and kill off my in-laws. http://www.japanhero.com/forums/html/emoticons/eyebrow.gif


They can have his sister in-law.... :p

Btw, Wonderfly... I think my buddy here is mistaking you for somebody else, so don't take his words personally. :sweat:

wonderfly
12-19-2003, 03:16 PM
LOL...it's okay, John, I try not to take anything personally...though I'm intrigued you were able to get a response back from him so fast...apparently you two have a real coordinated system in action: You post his thoughts here, then tell him the responses posted by us.

Also, I think he remembers my name from a little over a year ago when I posted a list here of my own creation that was something like, "Top 10 reasons why we should invade Iraq" or something...and as I recall you posted that list for him, and gave back his responses as you're doing now...as you two said, "The cycle of violence continues" :p

I do find it funny that he labeled me a conservative, when I like to think of myself as a middle of the road moderate, who just happens to be pretty much overall in agreement with Bush's foreign policy. Perhaps I've made a similar misjudgement and he's not the ultra Communist/Socialist/Liberal I pictured him to be from his original comments.

Listen, it's like this: I'm not saying a commitment towards educating those in the Arab world shouldn't be made. And though it may appear so, I'm not saying we can solve everything through violence. There's many reforms and improvements that need made throughout the Arab world. But to say that we'll win them over just by focusing on social programs is ludicrous. The two have to go hand in hand. That's why I said we have to beat the dictators, while working on improving their education, and improving their living conditions, and so on and so forth...

So ask him how he would improve the Arab world, and if it's better than the way George Bush is going about it, I'll give his ideas some thought...but I hope it's better than, "Give them Education". ;)

JohnCrichton
12-19-2003, 03:32 PM
Heh, funny... you both corrected me and it's me who doesn't remember that you two tangled before... :p So yeah, he remembers you.

He saw what I said and told me that he "talked" to you last year.

Anyway, I'm sure he's read this latest thing you've said and I'll post up his response if he makes one later. :)

wonderfly
12-19-2003, 04:02 PM
Heh, funny... you both corrected me and it's me who doesn't remember that you two tangled before... :p So yeah, he remembers you.

He saw what I said and told me that he "talked" to you last year.

Anyway, I'm sure he's read this latest thing you've said and I'll post up his response if he makes one later. :)

Just curious, but if he's "seen" what you said here, does that mean he's a lurker here at Toonzone? Why doesn't he post?

JohnCrichton
12-19-2003, 07:27 PM
I'm not exactally sure why... I think it has to do with him being apart of enough forums and he does this from work. Where he to sign up to another forum to argue more politics, he probably get in troulbe or something.

Ah... peaked into "the other forum" and here's what he says,


Eh, thanks, for the offer, but I *so* don't need another forum to be involed in. I'm sure the toon zone cats are cool, and Wonderfly seems to be a much better guy than the few other quotes from him I've seen have made him out to be, but I'll butt out for the time being. I do have trouble understanding how a self-professed moderate can stand with Bush's uber-right foreign policy stance, but whatever...