Lupin or Reign poll [Archive]

RogueMartian

11-13-2003, 04:45 AM

Well I have read many complaints about the loss of Lupin and now in (what seems to me to be) a very bizarre decision, our friends at WS have decided to show Reign again.

These two shows both feature somewhat odd character design, but are plotwise radically different. Reign is more pensive and drama based. Lupin is, obviously, more comedy and dialogue based.

I want to know what people here think. Do you prefer Lupin or Reign?

EightOh

11-13-2003, 06:50 AM

I like Lupin a little more than I like Reign, but I like both a lot.

bassist

11-13-2003, 08:00 AM

I think of Reign like I think of Regan... they're both good for a laugh... As is Lupin, but that's more intentional. I still like Lupin more, even after seeing the Secret of Mamo...

EDIT: And to thrax's post below: IT'S A VEST DAMMIT! A VEST!

Beat

11-13-2003, 12:27 PM

Fujiko.

Nuff said. :D

AlphaPrime

11-13-2003, 12:32 PM

Fujiko.

Nuff said. :D

He may not be right when it comes to Transformers but on that he is very much right BWAHAHA!! Lupin wins hands down.

Animation Otaku

11-13-2003, 02:03 PM

Lupin = one of the greatest anime ever.

Regin = ........wtf was that?

MJC

11-13-2003, 02:43 PM

Lupin is ok, but the animation hurts my eyes and a lot of the jokes just aren't that funny...

Reign makes me want to tear my eyes out.

The Drizzle

11-13-2003, 02:47 PM

I haven't actually seen Reign, but...

Lupin >>>>> Reign

Mynd Hed

11-13-2003, 02:55 PM

I haven't actually seen Reign, but...

Lupin >>>>> Reign

I'd have thought better of you, Drizzlator. Obviously your opinion matches up with the popular consensus, but you should at least watch both before making a judgment call.

Anyway, I like both, but I may be one of the few 'round here that prefers Reign. Lupin is funny, but it gets pretty repetitive after a while. Still, if I had to choose one to be on AS, I'd choose Lupin, because it has more episodes and Reign is more readily available on DVD for those who really want to see it.

The Drizzle

11-13-2003, 02:57 PM

I'd have thought better of you, Drizzlator. Obviously your opinion matches up with the popular consensus, but you should at least watch both before making a judgment call.

*sigh* Remind me never to post something that I perceive as funny again. :yawn:

Artimus Gigan

11-13-2003, 03:05 PM

Reign was like....man those people are skinny, they were all like wariors who wore like those metal thongs, and like rode horses...and when Reign was like on these enmemy guys one time they like screamed and like ran...yeah that Reign guy must be scary....I mean he looks like a chick....

AND I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE HELL WAS GOING ON!! I meanr eally if based upon Alexander The Great, have it atleast be somewhat accurate and not a ****fest of confusion and Kevin Costner Films(post DWW) I mean for crying out loud that armor was waaaaaaaay stupid, the original armor that they had back then would ahve looked better...

The Detective

11-13-2003, 03:34 PM

Lupin hands down. The designs aren't that different. Now Reign....it hurts my eyes just to look at a frame. Man and the plot....I could never make any sense of it seemed like a tangled mess of nothing.

Chris Wood

11-13-2003, 03:40 PM

I still like Lupin more, even after seeing the Secret of Mamo...

Even??? I think you mean "especially."

NeueZielZeon

11-13-2003, 03:46 PM

Hmmmm...
You seem to be missing the poll option "I like each show", because that's my opinion. You can't compare shows like Reign and Lupin at all, and this thread simply supports the theory that it's just "cool to hate Reign", as most people who have posted in the two recent Reign-bashing threads haven't even seen more than the promo when the series first aired.

Judging a show on simple opinion like that (or just following the bandwagon) is simply (no offense) idiotic. In my opinion, Reign was one of the first true action series on AS to truly appeal to adult fans.

Ancient Greek warriors of the time period fought naked on occasions...
I think the outfits in Reign are a lot more appealing than having the series be based on THAT historical fact.

SSJPabs

11-13-2003, 03:49 PM

I love them both.

Lupin made me laugh quite a bit, and my girlfriend enjoyed it. Reign made me salivate everytime they said or did something that was historically accurate. Also, I loved seeing "euclid" and "pythagoras."

Maybe I enjoyed Reign because I love history. I hope the upcoming movie is as fun to watch.

Some examples:

"If I were not Alexander, I would be Diogenes!" -- My response: He said that!
"You're standing in my sun." -- My repsonse: He said that!
Slashes the Gordian knot -- My response: He did that!

I can't choose.

The Landstander

11-13-2003, 03:57 PM

I'VE DECIDED TO WATCH REIGN TO SEE IF ITS AS BAD AS MOST PEOPLE CLAIM/GOOD AS SOME PEOPLE CLAIM! I WILL VOTE AFTER THAT.

Aren't I special? :D

Oh, and I did enjoy Lupin. A little corny at times, but fun.

DarkPoet89

11-13-2003, 04:16 PM

Lupin. It has some great comedic moments and interesting characters.

As for Reign... Sorry, but the show never really appealed to me. Maybe it's because I'm not a big fan of Alexander the Great, maybe it's because of the outfits they were wearing, I don't know, I just couldn't really get into it. The only thing I liked about the show was the opening song (It was entitled "Worthy of your Soul" right?).

Jaguar

11-13-2003, 04:47 PM

Do you have to ask? :sweat:

JTurner954

11-13-2003, 05:09 PM

Lupin the Third without a doubt. I'd rather watch a show that is intentionally funny with likeable characters and various stories over one that's unintentionally "funny" (ex: "I like the smell of his skin", "This isn't a coming out party") with somber characters (one of which rips off Yoda from Star Wars) and a story that is dragged out (I could list more reasons but I'll let new viewers find out on their own).

The Oblongs return + Reign's return - Lupin's absence = very :( and somewhat :mad:

Anime Guy

11-13-2003, 05:14 PM

The only thing I liked about the show was the opening song (It was entitled "Worthy of your Soul" right?).

Yeah, I loved that song too. They decided to take it off when they started airing the B&W cards.

redneckgoliath

11-13-2003, 05:19 PM

You guys ever seen Castle of Cagliostro?

Nuff' Said.

Conekiller

11-13-2003, 06:08 PM

I liked both, but Lupin has potential for growth whereas Reign is over and done with.

you poor homophobes with your fear of half dressed girly men :D

RedTail

11-13-2003, 06:30 PM

Reign was okay, but Lupin... Lupin is gold! Reign shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence, err paragraph, err entire post as Lupin! :D

eyager

11-13-2003, 07:07 PM

I much preferred Lupin.

Reign's characters are too freakishly drawn. Anime has its fair share of bishonen looking characters but at least they aren't drawn to be deliberately ugly. Alexander looks like Steven Tyler from Aerosmith in drag. :eek:

JTurner954

11-13-2003, 07:16 PM

Alexander looks like Steven Tyler from Aerosmith in drag. :eek:

At another message board I went to, someone thought Alexander looked like Angelina Jolie. And then I found out about this: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0346491/

Hopefully, that movie will be better than Reign.

The Drizzle

11-13-2003, 09:56 PM

I still like Lupin more, even after seeing the Secret of Mamo...

$10 down the drain...

j32885

11-13-2003, 09:59 PM

Gotta go with Lupin, with his show being one of the classic best longest-running anime series around. Just wish the overall general Adult Swim fan would gave Lupin better viewing respect. Quick question reguarding Lupin.

What Lupin animes are currently available right now, and by with distirbutiors?

Frank Castle

11-13-2003, 10:36 PM

I liked Lupin a hell of a lot more than Reign. To answer the above posts question there are some dvds out by Pioneer I beleive but it's just random episodes.

Fireswarm

11-14-2003, 12:03 AM

I would rather have for the 1 o'clock hour
1:00 Lupin
1:30 Reign

than the
1:00 Blue Gender
1:30 Reign

As in tipical AS fashion with bad spelling:

Blue Gender is hte s uck http://forums.toonzone.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Keldran

11-14-2003, 01:54 AM

Damnit, I voted Reign on accident. I really like Lupin, like 100x more than Reign.

Perfect Cell

11-14-2003, 01:55 AM

I personally hate Reign. I felt the style was stupid, the story boring. Im shocked at how they bring Reign back but not Lupin, the only show i hate more than Reign is Blue Gender, and having both in the same hour means, i simply turn off the tv early..... Lupin is a well written, smart show, with a campy style. Reign just sucks.

RogueMartian

11-14-2003, 02:01 AM

you poor homophobes with your fear of half dressed girly men :D
Two words: Metal thongs.

While they borrowed a little bit from history. The knot, diogenese.... I'll give them that. I was a huge Alexander the great fan. He was a brilliant charismatic military leader and they made him boring and ugly. I didn't think it was possible. I don't know how peter chung keeps getting work. I hate to be shallow, but the audience should be thinking about the story. There shouldn't be a universal: "metal thongs???". As for historical accuracy. I don't remember floating fortresses. The pythagoreans were a psycho cult, but they didn't look like that. Ancient greek armor and clothing was COOL. Really cool, and they opted to go with character designs that looked like humans bred with blue, and then put them in metal thongs. The males and females all looked like this.

Aside from that the story was boring. How do you make a story about conquering the known world BORING!! There could have been dialogue about military techniques(actually i think they're was a little chatter about horses but I think I was thinking "riding horses in metal thongs??? OW!!"). There could have been dialogue about alexander's pension for multiculturalism, for education, but instead they made alexander aloof and obsessed with "destroying the world". We all know he didn't destroy the world, that should never have been in it. We didn't really see him as a man who worked with his people. They spent time staring when there should have been a bloody battle with swords. Did we all really need to see his mother's thing for snakes? Okay, maybe some of us were into that, but I think most of us weren't.

One of the reasons I hated it was because I was such a huge alexander the great fan.

Lupin of course got my vote. It was funny and I could have watched the episode where Zenigata get's all lupin obsessed (I lost my mind in san fransisco was the title i think) five hundred times.

kempobot

11-14-2003, 02:43 AM

Lupin, that's a no-brainer. Why is Reign back, did it do better than Lupin in ratings? While I'm at it, does anybody think that Lupin would've done better on AS if they decided to primire it with the first series?

Fireswarm

11-14-2003, 03:07 AM

Futurama had a cameo of the codpiece in the Jurrasic Bark episode.

I only like Reign for its decent plot, basicly the 1:30 time slot is a great fit, only if they stop overplaying Blue Gender and put Lupan III instead. Oh well .....

Chris Wood

11-14-2003, 03:11 AM

$10 down the drain...

Ooooooh....it's on now. How can you be a Lupin fan if you didn't like his best movie?

bassist

11-14-2003, 04:01 AM

Ooooooh....it's on now. How can you be a Lupin fan if you didn't like his best movie?If The Secret of Mamo is his best movie, you must not have watched any other Lupin movies...

candy17

11-14-2003, 09:56 AM

Lupin.

I don't have a guys in metal thongs fetish.
I like Lupin too. Reign is okay, but it reminds me too much of the days when MTV was about weird cartoons (Beavis and Butthead, Aeon Flux, Daria), Sifl and Olly (that sock puppet show) and music videos (even if I only liked a few). Besides, I can't tell what's going on in that show.

Beat

11-14-2003, 09:57 AM

If The Secret of Mamo is his best movie, you must not have watched any other Lupin movies...

Calligstro's better.

Mynd Hed

11-14-2003, 11:40 AM

*sigh* Remind me never to post something that I perceive as funny again. :yawn:

*bashes own head in* BAD brain! Detect sarcasm from now on! BAD!!!

(-:

Oh, that reminds me. Drizzle, you should remember to never post something you perceive as funny again. You asked me to remind you about that.

(-:

redneckgoliath

11-14-2003, 12:07 PM

Calligstro's better.

indeed

Chris Wood

11-14-2003, 01:41 PM

If The Secret of Mamo is his best movie, you must not have watched any other Lupin movies...

Please. I have seen every Lupin movie (some several times). If you have read the manga, you know which movie is the best and funniest representation, and it doesn't involve a Disney impersonation.

Admittedly, Episode 0 and Tokyo Crisis are not far behind.

RedTail

11-14-2003, 07:13 PM

Please. I have seen every Lupin movie (some several times). If you have read the manga, you know which movie is the best and funniest representation, and it doesn't involve a Disney impersonation.

I've read and love the manga, but just because Mystery of Mamo is the closest theatrical release to Monkey Punch's Lupin doesn't make it the best. Miyazaki did a much better job w/ Cagliostro. Besides, the best place to catch stuff from the manga in action is the '71 series. It has the consistency the manga lacks, fuses the stories together better, and is more serious while still maintaining the comedic element at times (especially by the middle of the series). The only thing bad about it is how Lupin's sex drive is toned down for TV.

Enough arguing over which Lupin movie is best. As long as we all agree that The Fuma Conspiracy is the best Lupin OVA, we can remain peaceful.

Yep. It deserves a better dub though :\ Red head Fujiko is great, hah!

goat

11-14-2003, 07:40 PM

Reign, easily. I used to be a Reign hater. Of course, I'd only seen the commercials and been extremely turned off by the art style. Then one day, I found I had accidentally taped the first episode. I decided to watch it so I could find out what I was making fun of. And I loved it, in spite of myself.

Now I'm not saying that you only dislike it if you haven't watched it. Maybe the reason I like it is because I don't know Alexander the Great. I believe a more factual show about Alexander would've been just as interesting. But that doesn't mean this sci-fi version is terrible. Sure, it's hard to understand, but when you do finally get what's going on, it's great. The only thing I can compare it to is FLCL. And if you watch it long enough, you'll get used to the visual style. In fact, I...kind of...like it, now. The only thing I didn't like was the mixture of 3D CGI and 2D CGI/cel animation, whichever it was. But that's not just Reign, I hardly ever like it.

Artimus Gigan

11-14-2003, 07:45 PM

Reign is like the movie version Beowulf

Futuristic and senseless stuff took over the main emphesis and only had minor tie-ins to the actual source materal!!!!!!!

Lord Trunks

11-14-2003, 11:05 PM

I like Lupin better, I don't even know why I haven't recorded over the tape I recorded Reign on when I thought it was good

SSJPabs

11-14-2003, 11:49 PM

Well another thing I like about Reign was the high-brow writing. Whoo. Blew me away the first time.

MultipleSifl

11-15-2003, 12:09 AM

I didn't like Reign from the start. Not because of the animation style, mind you. I actually love Aeon Flux. It's just that if I'm not hooked by episode 2, I don't wanna see it. And Reign never did that for me. I tried to watch it but it just made me sleepy.
Lupin on the other hand...well, just check out the sig.

I LOVE YOU LUPIN!!! :anime:

Lupin the Wolf

11-15-2003, 05:03 PM

RogueMartian

11-15-2003, 09:11 PM

I hope Cartoon Network is watching this poll.

Reign reruns instead of Lupin? Who are they kidding?

70 for Lupin, 6 for Reign.

I hope there are plenty more votes coming to back up this early evidence....

Well, we know that they are aware of this site and must visit it once in a while. I know it's pie in the sky, but we can hope.

Youko Recca

11-15-2003, 09:18 PM

Yes we must.....hope *looks into the sunset*

Artimus Gigan

11-15-2003, 09:50 PM

According to the opinions of the Offical Adult Swim Forums(which must be reguarded as fact)
Lupin is mostly viewed as a gay ass old show with crappy pictures which may or may not be gay but it is strongly hinted at the animation being gay.

Reign is gay guys fighting with gay swords in gay wars in really gay ways, with gay animation that is really gay, but it has slutty women in it so the giant collective brain of all knowing at the AS Forums has decided that Reign is only slightly less gay then Lupin so that's why it will be shown....

Beat

11-15-2003, 10:25 PM

The opinion of a few computer illeterate Inu-Yasha fans. :p

Jaguar

11-15-2003, 10:40 PM

The opinion of a few computer illeterate Inu-Yasha fans. :p
d00d omg liek dats so m34n!! im gonna sic sesshomaru on u and he iz teh hottest 1 so he shall kik ur *****!! hahaha now im gonna go sit down and cry b-cuz dat gay BIG O just came on and i miss inuasha even though its only been off for 2 seconds! waah

Like that?

Sisto Kid

11-16-2003, 02:34 AM

d00d omg liek dats so m34n!! im gonna sic sesshomaru on u and he iz teh hottest 1 so he shall kik ur *****!! hahaha now im gonna go sit down and cry b-cuz dat gay BIG O just came on and i miss inuasha even though its only been off for 2 seconds! waah

Like that?

ROTFLMFAO!!!!
PERFECT, Jaguar, perfect!!! :D
But pointing out that the majority of posters on the AS.com board have the combined intellect of a salted garden slug is kinda like saying water is wet...a little on the obvious side. ;) (Moderators, if you think I'm being mean, you may edit my post at will...but you know I'm right)

Anyhoo, back on topic, AS sure is making some questionable decisions lately...first, they take Lupin off the air, saying "comedy kills us", (never mind FLCL has been doing pretty dang good, and deservedly so) THEN, they push back the new season of Home Movies in favor of...The Oblongs, of all things. :eek: WTF?

And now they're bringing back Reign (which I would have enjoyed in spite of the metal thongs and whatnot if they hadn't made the story so damn hard to follow...and I STUDIED Alexander the Great!)

Oh, well...at least they had the good sense to bring FLCL back. :shrug:

LUPIN ALL THE WAY!!!!

Yal

11-16-2003, 08:57 AM

At another message board I went to, someone thought Alexander looked like Angelina Jolie. And then I found out about this: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0346491/

Hopefully, that movie will be better than Reign.
Colin Farrell and Jared Leto, yeah, that's not a love scene I needed to see, and you know they're not going to downplay the relationship between Hephaestion and Alexander like Reign did (we saw Heph hanging out in Alex's bedroom a couple times, if there was anything more it hit the cutting room floor at CN). Oh well, should be popular with the ladies.

Anyway, I voted Reign. Lupic was fun and funny and its a shame to see it canned, but Reign is a work of art.

Beat

11-16-2003, 02:26 PM

Art huh? Well, that explains why Inu-Yasha fans hate it.

__________________

Blame it on Inu-Yasha fans!

Chris Wood

11-16-2003, 06:33 PM

They are both cool shows, OK? Next thread.

Anime Guy

11-16-2003, 06:43 PM

They are both cool shows, OK? Next thread.
You sound like a mod when you say that.

JohnCrichton

11-16-2003, 09:08 PM

For the record I thought Reign was excellent. One of the most brilliantly told stories to grace Cartoon Network, but unfortunately it's not easy for everyone to see that because of Peter Chung's unique character design, which is pretty unsightly for those of us who don't enjoy seeing men in thongs. :shrug:

But once you get past that, the story and the world design are insanely engaging and brilliant. It's a shame not more people got it.

Dr. Singh

11-16-2003, 09:59 PM

I've always perfered Lupin over Reign.

I belive Lupin is a more entertaining show!

Yal

11-16-2003, 10:13 PM

If you want the Reign storyline but with more mainstream characters (likable), character designs (pretty), and setting (95% less steampunk), check out Scrapped Princess. Only available via fansub at the moment (absolutely criminal), but highly recommended.

SwedeRacer

11-16-2003, 10:26 PM

Lupin vs. Reign too me is summed up as my desire to see a brilliant work of anime against my desire to see hideous men in thongs.

I'll go with Lupin.

Chris Wood

11-16-2003, 10:32 PM

You sound like a mod when you say that.

Too pretentious, huh? There really is no basis for comparing these two shows so the whole business is rather silly.

Duke

11-17-2003, 12:19 AM

I couldn't stand the first 15 minutes of Episode 1 of Reign.

Lupin is one of my favorite animes ever.

RogueMartian

11-17-2003, 12:30 AM

Too pretentious, huh? There really is no basis for comparing these two shows so the whole business is rather silly.
Why? It's just opinion. Both shows have bizarre animation character design and their presence on AS is debated. It seems logical to me. Nobody has even flamed anybody yet. Well the AS board people were flamed, but that was funny.

The Landstander

11-17-2003, 12:32 AM

Well the AS board people were flamed, but that was funny.They don't count as people.

shogunthethird

11-17-2003, 01:05 AM

I'm loath to use a comparison but Lupin vs. Reign is like pitting AC/DC against a boy band, G1 against Armada, it's a timeless classic against a flavor of the month

MultipleSifl

11-17-2003, 09:20 PM

That's very true. I'm used to Lupin's animation style because that's basically what anime looked like when I was a kid. These kids now-a-days don't get it. With their obsessions and needs. "Weh..it's not fluid. It's not done on a computer. Weh!" Bah! :P

Alaskanbullworm

11-17-2003, 09:24 PM

Definately Lupin (hopefully will remake his Lupin smilie soon). I watched Reign before, but it's just too.... blah.

Van Gogh

11-20-2003, 12:15 AM

I don't like both.

bassist

11-20-2003, 01:52 AM

I don't like both.Yeah, but you cut off your ear and put it in a box and sent it to a whore in order to win her love...

redneckgoliath

11-20-2003, 11:33 AM

Yeah, but you cut off your ear and put it in a box and sent it to a whore in order to win her love...

You say that like there's something wrong with that.

Moridin

11-20-2003, 02:10 PM

I was originally excited to watch Alexander the Great in Reign. I didn't mind the character designs (it was expected from when I watched Aon Flux in high school), but the storyline made no sense and continued to get worse as the plot developed.

Lupin... well... I can't say that I got excited to watch it, but I did watch all the episodes on AS and I definitely enjoyed them. It's a shame that they won't be playing any more episodes.

Comparing the two? It's like comparing apples and oranges.... But I've always liked apples better than oranges. And Lupin beats Reign, hands down :)

Nik Jam

11-20-2003, 02:15 PM

I think people are way too overanalystic. I don't see why people would hate a show just on the animation, like most people do. Lupin and Reign are both underrated. But I like the action in Reign more, and Reign is of course, more underated.

When I saw the commercial, my eyes didn't flinch, my eyes didn't care. I liked the commercial, didn't have any problems with the animation. So I went into a chatroom and everyone was going "Is that guy wearing a thong?" "This animation is horrible!" Stuff that didn't even come to mind. When I was realized, yes, Alexander was wearing something that could be called a thong (it's not though, it kinda annoys me when people say that), I was like "oh, I see, interesting" but I can't really see why people let that get to them. It was only a problem in the first episode when it pretty much looked like Alexander was skinny dipping rather than in a simple loincloth(?), and I'd say the guy with the saggy breasts is more disturbing ;) It was liked "Aggh" for a while but now I don't care. The backgrounds are good, I like the detail on the characters. I actually like the animation more than Lupin. I just don't see where the complaints come from. It just seems like people can't stand anything that's not like Cowboy Bebop. That's probaly not the case. But I don't see what it's in the mind of people who get mad over skinny characters who wear little in the areas that should be covered :p (It's just a drawing anyway, if this was real life I'd probaly be scarred for life, but that's not the case)

Moridin

11-20-2003, 03:12 PM

I don't see why people would hate a show just on the animation, like most people do.
I agree, I definitely thought the animation was pretty cool in Reign. But I don't see how someone can like a show just on the animation.

It was the plot that killed Reign for me. I like some weird shows/movies, but this just didn't do it for me - it was way too insane and out there.

protogenxl

11-21-2003, 08:51 AM

Personally i don't like reign but i can stand lupin however i would rather something along lines of City Hunter

Let the complaining by militant "anime buffs" begin

bassist

11-21-2003, 01:51 PM

Animation is the first bridge to people's attention. Flare, beauty and images are how movies catch your attention. The other side of this is if a show has an unpleasing look to it, it drives people off before they can get involved in a plot. This is why Home Movies should be seen as such a success. It's not visually pleasing, but the plot and writing is so good that people keep coming back.

With Reign, as Moridin said, the animation isn't that bad, but a large number of people who watched the show for more than the visuals were let down in a weak and confusing plot. The voice acting was average at best, and while the characters had more depth than many shows (especially Lupin), supporting roles were often contrived and stereotypical.

Lupin doesn't escape it's problems either. In addition to an old and choppy animation style that could easily be argued to be worse than Reign's wierd and Aeon Flux-like character designs, the writing reflected both the era in which it was originally written (way back) and the era in which it was dubbed (today), which either added to the humor or bother the hell out of people.

In essence, niether show could be considered great, but neither show could be called bad since they both delivered what they promised: Reign with it's interesting animation and twisted perverstion of classical history; Lupin with it's caricature characters and amusing stories. Both shows have animation flaws, and, therefore, animation flaws can't be an argument for one over the other.

SIDE NOTE: Mad props on mentioning City Hunter!

drippynmeatwad

11-22-2003, 09:18 AM

Give me Lupin or give me death!!!!! .... or money to get the DVD. either of the three will do. :D :p :D

protogenxl

11-22-2003, 10:29 AM