why do people hate Pokémon?

[PowerZord]

And I'm talking about the whole series. not just After Indigo.


I have a lot of poke haters in my anime board that's why i'm askin.

[Speedy Boris]

The one thing that bugs me about this and Digimon is how every non-human character's name ends in -mon. I find it gets annoying quickly. That, and it kind of got a bad reputation simply because 8-yr olds were obsessed with trading cards with each other (not to mention "Mommy! Buy me Pokemon Chartreuse for Gameboy!"). Otherwise, if you take the show at face value, it's OK. Not my cup of tea, and not really for my age group, but I don't DESPISE it or anything. EDIT: I guess you could also argue that the numerous Pokemon airings on Cartoon Network take away from classic toons, but then again, so do the Cartoon Cartoons like Dexter & Powerpuff.

[Kouji Tamino]

Actually, it's only Digimon that the monsters names end in 'mon'...

[RockItShipper]

And I'm talking about the whole series. not just After Indigo.


I have a lot of poke haters in my anime board that's why i'm asking.

I think the primary reason is that's one of the known anime series overall. And first glances might indicate that kids are so hooked into shows like it that more otaku-friendly anime might look like it's being left out. But the truth is that a generation is taking in more and more anime, and more will be released.

[MrBananagrabber]

Because it's a show aimed at young children. Most of the people on this board do not fall into this category. Therefore, they don't like it.

[Parallax]

Eh, probaly lack of an overall plot. Plus, most of the series is filler. Also, it kinda ruins the reputation of other Monster shows. Unlike Pokemon, Digimon and Monster Rancher actually had a plot.

[StrangerAtaru]

Personally, speaking from a fan's POV, Pokemon was and will always be with me a "cute little show based off a video game that actually is a bit of fun" with me. When the show started in the US back in 1998, it wasn't really trying to be anything more than it was and it did a good job for being a "30-minute commercial". And considering how little money I had from allowance, it gave me something to watch for free on TV that was decent. But then several things happened:

-First the whole "Pokemon" fad expoded, mostly after WB took over the airing. Crap started appearing everywhere and it got sickening. (even if I bought a little of it myself...but not too much)
-Then comes the sad part: the anime actually started going down in quality not too long after the fad died down...even if things were finally quiet again, the show was a shadow of its former self. (mostly due to the same plot being used over and over ad nauseum...) Of course, there were some good things still in the show.

Hopefully with Advance Generation, some of the old magic will return to the show...and without all the fad stuff flying around (since it is "over" and kids have moved on to other stuff), it could just be a "cute little show based off a video game that actually is a bit of fun" again. (this coming from a guy who once did a college report on Pokemon...don't ask)

[GWOtaku]

I resent the show because it became such a commercialized deal. Its right up there with the grotesque "Flint the Time Detective" as the worst possible standard to judge anime by, and with its massive public exposure there are likely many who do just that.

As far as the show itself goes, every episode is filler. Nothing EVER changes. And no, a random shuffle in the Pokemon lineup doesn't count. Every episode is just an excuse to show off the latest Pokemon in some marketing ploy, and the pattern of Ash (or Satoshi, or whatever) always getting to the finals only to be dealt defeat is repetitive and an obvious excuse to repeat the same tired material season after season so they can continue the cash cow. Brock's obsession over girls, Team Rocket being stupid, Pikachu shocking Ash...*yawn*. Its been done a few hundred times. When was the last time they used a new plot device?

Pokemon isn't a great show or even a good show, its a repeating farce that will continue until the product its advertising stops being profitable. Pokemon has no point outside of promoting its industry, which is why it never evolves.

[Jave]

Eh, probaly lack of an overall plot. Plus, most of the series is filler. Also, it kinda ruins the reputation of other Monster shows. Unlike Pokemon, Digimon and Monster Rancher actually had a plot.
That is probably the main problem with Pokemon, the series has gotten just flat-out repetitive. I've lost all hope on it by now, although, I'm definitely giving Pokemon Advance a fair chance.

[Cyber E.]

Pokèmon IS literally the same plotline worked over and over again in each episode. Some of the plotholes can get annoying after a while [When is Ash gonna get Butterfly back, for instance] and the overall feel and look of it doesn't appeal to most audiences.

The begining episodes were good because it wasn't the same exact workings every episode. Now its just

1. Ash & Co. walk
2. Ash & Co. meet Pokèmon
3. Ash & Co. meet Person
4. TEAM ROCKET BAD >:O
5. Ash & Co. talk with Person and/or Pokèmon
6. TEAM ROCKET STRIKE >:O
7. Ash & Co. defeat TEAM ROCKET ONCE AGAIN!
8. TEAM ROCKET GO AWAY BUT COME BACK NEXT EPISODE >:O
9. Ash & Co. walk into the sunset after saying goodbye to Person and/or Pokèmon.
[/fin]

God I'm good.

[Animation Otaku]

But they fixed that by being even more original than the early episodes with Advance Generation.

[Cyber E.]

It doesn't make up for over 200 episodes of

1. Ash & Co. walk
2. Ash & Co. meet Pokèmon
3. Ash & Co. meet Person
4. TEAM ROCKET BAD >:O
5. Ash & Co. talk with Person and/or Pokèmon
6. TEAM ROCKET STRIKE >:O
7. Ash & Co. defeat TEAM ROCKET ONCE AGAIN!
8. TEAM ROCKET GO AWAY BUT COME BACK NEXT EPISODE >:O
9. Ash & Co. walk into the sunset after saying goodbye to Person and/or Pokèmon.
[/fin]

But at least its a start. :sad:

[undomel]

its too kiddy for me. i just dont find it exciting. and i get bored quickly when i watch it. i dont think of it as anime either. its just a regular saterday mornig cartoon. only it was made in japan.

[True Noir]

The same thing always happens for every episode. Ash asnd his Pikachu and other pokemons fight and at the end they win. no big surprise! Plus it's way to kiddy for me too.

[ClockStomper]

I thought it lost steam and started following a boring and redundant formula. Before there was variety in plot (The cursed Ghastly, the Sabrina saga, the adventure on the cruise ship, etc.) Then it became bland. But it was fun while the good times lasted.

Some kept watching through the bad times because they became loyal to the characters during the "good times" but I just think it's painful to watch bastardizations of beloved characters (spider-man comics from 1998-2001 are an example of this.)

In comparison to the other "mon" show, it was always inferior. It was had elements of .Hack and "The Matrix" before either came out (but both did it better.) But Digimon did fall victim to Pokemon's problems, because 95% of Frontier consisted of useless "help random digimons" episodes and they one plotline people could get interested had it's resolution regulated to the last 20 seconds of the series (no joke.)

[UberMonkey]

I resent the show because it became such a commercialized deal. Its right up there with the grotesque "Flint the Time Detective" as the worst possible standard to judge anime by, and with its massive public exposure there are likely many who do just that.

Heh, I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but I actually liked watching Flint the time Detective when it was on FoxKids. Not something I went out of my way to watch, but it was amusing fluff. It may not have been very deep or very clever (This was an educational anime meant for little kids translated by Saban, after all), but... Man. The theme song/intro. With the dancing? You can't tell me that couldn't at least put a smile on your face.

As for the topic.. I think what everyone else has pretty much covered it. It was enjoyable at the beginning (I'll even admit I did purchase a tape of the show), especially while playing the games. I really enjoyed the Gym battle episodes. but once the show got repetitive, and the mega-fad died down, I think a lot of people viewed it more as an eyesore than anything else. I remember I had gotten a friend of mine into the games and show, and after awhile he mentioned to me "I wish they'd get to another Gym. It's more fun then." Basically, the show just got too filler-tastic. And the competition (Digimon) proved to be far more interesting, with ongoing story-arcs and the like.

I haven't had a chance to catch the new Advanced episodes which sound like are supposed to be enjoyable again. I think it'll be worth a chance.

[Dogasu]

Everyone, watch Advanced Generation. It's basically the show's apology for the horrible 3-year ordeal known as "Jouto."

In my opinion, Pokemon is THE best video game to anime conversion out there. Most anime based on video games are complete crap, but Pocket Monsters manages to have great characters, interesting storylines, and some really nice music. Sure, there are a few (dozen) terrible episodes, but as a whole, it's a lot better than "Street Fighter" or that Final Fantasy OVA.

As far as the show itself goes, every episode is filler. Nothing EVER changes. And no, a random shuffle in the Pokemon lineup doesn't count. Every episode is just an excuse to show off the latest Pokemon in some marketing ploy, and the pattern of Ash (or Satoshi, or whatever) always getting to the finals only to be dealt defeat is repetitive and an obvious excuse to repeat the same tired material season after season so they can continue the cash cow. Brock's obsession over girls, Team Rocket being stupid, Pikachu shocking Ash...*yawn*. Its been done a few hundred times. When was the last time they used a new plot device?

Yeah, every episode is filler...except all those non-filler episodes -_-

And the characters have grown. Satoshi (Ash) has become a much better trainer as time has gone on--he's a much better trainer now than he was in the beginning of the series. We actually see him training like trying to teach Pikachu to use Iron Tail against the first Houen gym leader, or teaching his pokemon to be more in tune with the environment for the second gym leader.

Takeshi (Brock) has decided to stop training exclusively rock-types and has decided to train other types of pokemon. The common thought is that his hormones went into overdrive during Jouto because of what happened between him and Professor Ivy.

Kasumi (Misty) has gone from a rather b*tchy young girl to a serious gym leader and good pokemon trainer. Watch the episode when her Togepi evolves and leaves and tell me that she hasn't grown.

Some of the plotholes can get annoying after a while [When is Ash gonna get Butterfly back, for instance] and the overall feel and look of it doesn't appeal to most audiences.

In the Japanese verison of "Bye Bye Butterfree," Takeshi makes the comment that after Butterfrii mate, they die. Of course, this was changed in the dub, but basically Satoshi's Butterfrii either couldn't get any and is living alone somewhere or has been dead for quite a while now.

And apparently, the show still appeals to a huge audience (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/article.php?id=4324).

[Ajax]

Basically, the show just got too filler-tastic. And the competition (Digimon) proved to be far more interesting, with ongoing story-arcs and the like.

Yet for some unknow reason, Digimon has cease to exist after the horrible showing of Frontier and Pokemon is going strong with its new season (so I hear). After three sorry ass years of Johto it still on the air, how I don't know. Its managed to outlive most of the shows aired on WB. So it seems only us anime fans seem to hate pokemon.
Look this show isn't the greatest, but its fun to watch. I was smart enough to skip 200 ep. of filler and only caught gym battles and any ep. that didn't follow this formula:
1. Ash & Co. walk
2. Ash & Co. meet Pokèmon
3. Ash & Co. meet Person
4. TEAM ROCKET BAD >:O
5. Ash & Co. talk with Person and/or Pokèmon
6. TEAM ROCKET STRIKE >:O
7. Ash & Co. defeat TEAM ROCKET ONCE AGAIN!
8. TEAM ROCKET GO AWAY BUT COME BACK NEXT EPISODE >:O
9. Ash & Co. walk into the sunset after saying goodbye to Person and/or Pokèmon. ;)
So pokemon has a repetitive plot, **** how many anime's aren't guilty of that. (Sure pokemon takes it to the extreme) I know this series sucks, but as long as its on TV, I might as well watch it.

[EscaflownePilot]

As a huge Pokemon fan, I've never hd a problem with the series - I've loved it to death, even during some of the worst parts.

But, I can understand why someone wouldn't like it.

In fact, the things that I love most about Pokemon are the things I think many people don't like about it. For starters, the tone rarely elevates above being "light-hearted". There is no major huge conspiracy or evil or whatever you'd call that sense of purpose driving the main character in series such as Trigun or Evangelion. It is, at it's core, the adventure of a boy participating in a sport - a boy who wants to explore the world, and be the best at this sport of training Pokemon while being friends with his Pokemon.

Yet this is the biggest thing that attracts me to it. Unlike Trigun or Evangelion, there is no clear end or goal, much how it is in real life. Ash/Satoshi's friendship with both his Pokemon and the others (like Misty) is touching, his drive to succeed at what he does is something to identify with or admire, and the overall tone of wanting to be the best in a never-ending line of dreams is something I can relate to with all the sports I play. I love the colorful world and enviroment that Ash lives in, and the way he interacts with others. I love the way the creators are able to recreate the same feelings through Ash that I have in certain events in life.

Pokemon as a whole seems like a never-ending, ongoing story without any clear or definite goal as opposed to more linear shows like Blue Gender.

But, at the same time, all those things I just said (as demonstrated by posters above) can just as well be used against the show.

[purplehairedwonder]

But, at the same time, all those things I just said (as demonstrated by posters above) can just as well be used against the show.

And those are some of the main reasons that I don't like Pokemon. When it first came out I watched it a bit and thought, this is alright, but I kept watching and didn't really enjoy it that much. I just seemed to kiddy (and I was probably 10 or 11 at this time:shrug:.) to me. Plus the plot didn't really interest me. I thought Pikachu was kinda cute, but that was really it. The plot just didn't interest me and neither did the characters.

[Chris Wood]

Because it's mindless kiddie stuff that relentlessly tries to sell merchandise. The blatant commericalism is so wildly over the top you just have to laugh, and wish you had a cut of the licensing fees.

[PowerZord]

i'm a huge poke fan. digimon i like it but u can say is almost the same as well

[digilover15]

It doesn't make up for over 200 episodes of

1. Ash & Co. walk
2. Ash & Co. meet Pokèmon
3. Ash & Co. meet Person
4. TEAM ROCKET BAD >:O
5. Ash & Co. talk with Person and/or Pokèmon
6. TEAM ROCKET STRIKE >:O
7. Ash & Co. defeat TEAM ROCKET ONCE AGAIN!
8. TEAM ROCKET GO AWAY BUT COME BACK NEXT EPISODE >:O
9. Ash & Co. walk into the sunset after saying goodbye to Person and/or Pokèmon.
[/fin]

But at least its a start. :sad:

Some things do change:ep-title,script.

[Blue]

Let's see as a MEGA BIG pokemon fan I know it's stoll a good show andm it's still very good in japan the rating's have not dided out there.

I think it was just a fad here american's cant hold ther attention on thing's for long.

[Animelee]

Clear the way, fanboy coming through.

Pokemon is the best there was, the best there is, and the best there ever will be. It is the BEST cartoon based on a game, no doubt.

It has some of the best character development in any show I've ever seen, and it's so damn hilarious.

People may hate it because it's kiddy, but I don't see that as a reason to hate something. Just because something is "adult" doesn't make it automatically cool.

Also, about the filler-thing, only Johto had a lot of fillers, but that's because the Johto Saga had to go on for three years, because of GAME FREAK working on Ruby/Sapphire. What Hoenn is, is, well, a new beginning, much like Kanto was. I know I'm saying this for the millionth time, but Hoenn has taken all the charm and magic of Kanto, and multiplied it by ten. 'Cause of that, we have awesome and ORIGINAL stories with more plot that borrow from the game. For those of you who have seen all twelve Hoso specials and all fifty Advanced Generation episodes (like me :D) have to admit that there are only about, say, less than five filler episodes in all fifty of the Hoenn Saga. That's pretty small.

Anyways, I know I'm just jumping from random point to random point, but that's because when it comes to Pokemon, I get excited, and I can't think properly, LOL.

Uhh, well, I just can't see how people can dislike Pokemon. It's such a charming, magical, hilarious, dramatic, and action-packed cartoon, and even the Johto Saga kicked butt. That is all.

[PowerZord]

Animelee I was waiting for you to come! You make me proud. LOL
Anyways I'm a huge poke fan and in my anime board I get into fights with my members because most of them hate Pokémon.

I LOVE pokémon for the past 4-5 years and I will keep watchin them till it ends.

In my bookbag I have a Sandslash Keychain attached. and everybody tells me that it sucks. I was Like NO IT DOESN'T!!

I'm 18 years old and in my first year of college and I fully enjoy Pokémon! I'm still waiting for my cable to get back to see Pokémon Advance Adventure.

[EscaflownePilot]

Clear the way, fanboy coming through.

Pokemon is the best there was, the best there is, and the best there ever will be. It is the BEST cartoon based on a game, no doubt.

It has some of the best character development in any show I've ever seen, and it's so damn hilarious.

People may hate it because it's kiddy, but I don't see that as a reason to hate something. Just because something is "adult" doesn't make it automatically cool.

Also, about the filler-thing, only Johto had a lot of fillers, but that's because the Johto Saga had to go on for three years, because of GAME FREAK working on Ruby/Sapphire. What Hoenn is, is, well, a new beginning, much like Kanto was. I know I'm saying this for the millionth time, but Hoenn has taken all the charm and magic of Kanto, and multiplied it by ten. 'Cause of that, we have awesome and ORIGINAL stories with more plot that borrow from the game. For those of you who have seen all twelve Hoso specials and all fifty Advanced Generation episodes (like me :D) have to admit that there are only about, say, less than five filler episodes in all fifty of the Hoenn Saga. That's pretty small.

Anyways, I know I'm just jumping from random point to random point, but that's because when it comes to Pokemon, I get excited, and I can't think properly, LOL.

Uhh, well, I just can't see how people can dislike Pokemon. It's such a charming, magical, hilarious, dramatic, and action-packed cartoon, and even the Johto Saga kicked butt. That is all.I perfectly agree on all the points above. As I said in my post, I can understand why some people don't like Pokemon, but I don't think using "it's too kiddy" is good reasoning. And, like the above poster, I just don't see any real strong repetitive formula like everyone keeps claiming there is, aside from the middle Johto episodes.

[Beat]

Commercialism, and souring the use of anime as the proof animation is for adults. Not to mention awful, generic writing.

[undomel]

im sorry to all the poke-fanatics but if you think that pokemon is the best anime out their your out of your mind!!! theres no way pokemon should be in the same league as anime like Cowboy Bebop and Trigun and Hellsing. these show have a meaning, a plot! Pokemon is just the same thing over and over again. i use to like it when i was... 14 but now that i have seen more and more anime, the less and less pokemon is appealing. this is my oppinion and i dont mean to offend, but it really isnt the best out there!!!

[Volt]

Yet for some unknow reason, Digimon has cease to exist after the horrible showing of Frontier and Pokemon is going strong with its new season (so I hear). After three sorry ass years of Johto it still on the air, how I don't know. Its managed to outlive most of the shows aired on WB. So it seems only us anime fans seem to hate pokemon.
Look this show isn't the greatest, but its fun to watch. I was smart enough to skip 200 ep. of filler and only caught gym battles and any ep. that didn't follow this formula:
1. Ash & Co. walk
2. Ash & Co. meet Pokèmon
3. Ash & Co. meet Person
4. TEAM ROCKET BAD >:O
5. Ash & Co. talk with Person and/or Pokèmon
6. TEAM ROCKET STRIKE >:O
7. Ash & Co. defeat TEAM ROCKET ONCE AGAIN!
8. TEAM ROCKET GO AWAY BUT COME BACK NEXT EPISODE >:O
9. Ash & Co. walk into the sunset after saying goodbye to Person and/or Pokèmon. ;)
So pokemon has a repetitive plot, **** how many anime's aren't guilty of that. (Sure pokemon takes it to the extreme) I know this series sucks, but as long as its on TV, I might as well watch it.

Yes as you stated it's the same basic formula for each episode.

Misty get's angry
Ash sees pokemon
bla bla bla
Team Rocket Show Up
Team Rocket's blasting off............again :yawn: (yawn)
Pretty sunset

Well people, the only logical explination here that Bothe you and I could have been missing here.
->Maybe pokemon is meant for little kids, (i mean like 7-10 year olds) but you know those japanese like to bump Rated G content to Rated PG-13 (even R :D ) and We teenagers are trying to understand this so called, "Pokemon"... I still think it's a little kid show in diquise with some Teen appeal.

(man if the Japanese see us trying to figure this out they'll probably laugh, we might be in the news!)

I like having Pokemon on in the background i don't hate it. i hope it goes on forever becasue if they canceled it i would prabably cry, i mean i and well...WE count on it never to change. This one episode had the whole thing on MISTY and it was great, finally something different. They should do that more often, but the day pokemon goes off the air is a sad day for all, some might cheer, but only to hide the tears deep down inside.

[StrangerAtaru]

im sorry to all the poke-fanatics but if you think that pokemon is the best anime out their your out of your mind!!! theres no way pokemon should be in the same league as anime like Cowboy Bebop and Trigun and Hellsing. these show have a meaning, a plot! Pokemon is just the same thing over and over again. i use to like it when i was... 14 but now that i have seen more and more anime, the less and less pokemon is appealing. this is my oppinion and i dont mean to offend, but it really isnt the best out there!!!

Pokemon is not and will never be "the greatest anime out there" (at least to me). It's a fun little kids show/commercial with a lot of care for its characters even if they get stuck sometimes in stupid repetitive plotlines.

[Conan-san]

Stuff.

Btw: Pilot, every time I look at your avitar, I think it's Samus for about 5 seconds.

In comparison to the other "mon" show, it was always inferior. It was had elements of .Hack and "The Matrix" before either came out (but both did it better.) But Digimon did fall victim to Pokemon's problems, because 95% of Frontier consisted of useless "help random digimons" episodes and they one plotline people could get interested had it's resolution regulated to the last 20 seconds of the series (no joke.)

Personaly I think Tamers to be the best of the four series (Though zero 1 had it's moments). Fairly accurate dub, enjoyable voices (for a show if this type, that's saying somthing) most scences left unchanced. (Though nothing beats the saturday morning indueo of the Angewomon/Lady Devimon Fight in 01's Darkmasters saga courtisy of Izzumi and Taichi.)

[Znath]

It's like any show that's popular
there's always a group of people that will hate it no matter what. These "rabid show haters" just flat out... hate it and won't even watch it if you strapped em to a chair. Some dislike it less than others but generaly there's not much in between.

I think the first rabid haters appeared when these things were new and they wanted to be in the "in" croud and hate it unjustifiably. From there they just kept hating it. People don't always have reasons to hate a show. Over time they develope things they begin to think are real reasons for not liking it such as some wierd ones I've heard:

One group saying "pokemon is a satanic show" which sited a bunch of terrible false logic as their proof (it was realy bad "proof")

I kind of like it, I like the game more though. sometime I think the show gives the game as an RPG a bad name. But appart from that It's not a bad show anymore. The first episodes almost said "press the A button to..." and were almost a help guide for the game.

The show now is actualy kind of decent. I might watch more of the "advance" season to see how it goes

[DarkMaster]

jealousy of course why else? its popular so shove a show like dbz pokemon or sailormoon off to another network i don't like it;)

[Conekiller]

im sorry to all the poke-fanatics but if you think that pokemon is the best anime out their your out of your mind!!!

I honestly don't recallanyone saying that. they DID say that it was the best videogame--> tv show, and I agree (havn't seen much of SOnic x yet, and I call myself a fan :( )

[Animelee]

Well, I think it's the best show that was, is, and ever will be.

[Ajax]

they DID say that it was the best videogame--> tv show,
Ok, I think we can all agree on that.

But this:
Well, I think it's the best show that was, is, and ever will be.Hell no. To anime in general, Pokemon is the worst that was is and ever will be. Look, any day I'd go out on a limb and defend Pokemon, but that statmen right there is the reason why so many people hate pokemon.

[Taco Addict]

Hell no. To anime in general, Pokemon is the worst that was is and ever will be. Look, any day I'd go out on a limb and defend Pokemon, but that statmen right there is the reason why so many people hate pokemon.

Oh my... can't a guy voice his opinion without getting beat up about it. I mean you act like you are the only one who can be right in this situation. Heck you are hardly even credible since you countradicted yourself. you cant say Pokemon is the best game-->anime transition and then also say its the worst anime there ever was and ever will be. Simply because you have already said that there are some below it.

Also could you explain how you would go out on a limb to defend it yet all you really do is slam it in your post?

Could you also explain to me how an anime having fans makes people hate it? i mean then shouldnt you logically hate every anime in exsistance? except maybe the ones that are completely and utterly god awful. I mean face it, every anime will have its fans that think the anime is the greatest thing since sliced bread, its just part of life.

[Duke]

I personally have been watching it ever since it was on Kids' WB! (As I missed the syndicated run since it was on during school hours) and I love the series. I've stuck it out through the bad times, I'm trying to collect all the figures & at least 1 card of every Pokémon, and I went to see the 5 movies in theaters and bought all the movies & specials released in the US on DVD (I'm getting #5 when it comes out next month).

Hey Animelee, where did you get your AG episodes/specials?

[shogunthethird]

it's all relative, tastes change, people change but mostly a lot of people are mindless fad-concious drones that follow anything I don't hate pokemon, I hate that it's become what the world thinks of when they think of anime, thus furthering the stigma that all animation is for kids and that there's people out there who call themselves anime "experts" when they've only seen this, yugioh, DBZ and inuyasha but again I don't hate it, there's other stuff I like better, One Piece for instance, I hold that to the same regard Animelee holds Pokemon, and even more ironic is the fact that Pikachu's Seiyuu voices my current favorite anime critter, ship's doctor Toni Toni Chopper (and if that's not strange enough, Inuyasha's Seiyuu voices Usopp and Char Aznable's voices Shanks)

[Animelee]

Ok, I think we can all agree on that.

But this:
Hell no. To anime in general, Pokemon is the worst that was is and ever will be. Look, any day I'd go out on a limb and defend Pokemon, but that statmen right there is the reason why so many people hate pokemon.

Yes, because we all know that opinion is now fact.

Hey Animelee, where did you get your AG episodes/specials?*CoughWINMX&mIRCCough*

[Ajax]

Oh my... can't a guy voice his opinion without getting beat up about it
Man can't a guy voice an opinion about someone else's opinion without some random person getting that offened? Its not like I called him an idiot or anything like that.
I mean you act like you are the only one who can be right in this situation
Really? :confused: Well sorry you feel that way.
Heck you are hardly even credible since you countradicted yourself. you cant say Pokemon is the best game-->anime transition and then also say its the worst anime there ever was and ever will be
I'm not actually contradicting myself. See Pokemon is one of the better anime's when it comes to the game--> anime transition but that doesn't mean its the greatest anime ever. Look, to anime in general Pokemon ranks as one of the worst. Thats what I meant. I'm not slaming Pokemon, but can you explain to me Animelee how the Johto series is even remotely great?

[Animelee]

Sure, you can voice your opinion, but the way you did it, it's like you were stating that your opinion was an actual fact, and that all our opinions on Pokemon should be overruled (sp) by yours.

Oh, and I think Pokemon is the best show ever, not just the best cartoon. :D

[Beat]

Um, hello? M*A*S*H? Dallas? Seinfeld? Mobile Suit Gundam? :mad:

[Antiyonder]

Now first of all I like the show, but even I find the episodes a bit repetitive.

First of all saying that it's repetitive because it's geared towards kids. That's not really a justifiable reason. Take other programs in Japan, like Sentai. The Sentai shows are geared towards kids and made for marketing purposes, the writers still try and tell good stories. Timeranger is one of the best examples of that.

As for Johto having a lot of needless fillers because Ruby and Sapphire were still being made, that doesn't make any sense. Since Team Aqua and Magma are the main enemies in Ruby/Sapphire there are two ways The show could have been made to be more exciting:

1. The writers could have made The Johto Saga shorter, and followed it up with a storyline featuring the downfall of Team Rocket. The way it could work is for Ash, Misty and Brock to be join with some characters (even some Gym Leaders) from the previous Kanto, Orange Island and Johto Episodes. Team Rocket is finally beaten and Advanced Generation develops Team Aqua and Magma as the new main adversaries.

2. Spend the second half of Johto to a subplot where Jesse, James and Meowth start to question their (unsuccessful) career in Team Rocket. Eventually they tire of it and quit Team Rocket. Then they would travel deciding on what to do with their lives, and sometimes help Ash and Company. I'm basically suggesting redemption. Meanwhile Butch & Cassidy, Giovanni, Team Aqua and Team Magma would be the main villains of series from then on.

[MJC]

I honestly can't think of a more repetitive show than Pokemon. Even Yugi-oh and DBZ can't stand up to the pure repetitiveness of Pokemon. Also, none of the characters (other than maybe Team Rocket) are likeable.

[Dogasu]

they DID say that it was the best videogame--> tv show,

Ok, I think we can all agree on that.

To anime in general, Pokemon is the worst that was is and ever will be. Look, any day I'd go out on a limb and defend Pokemon, but that statmen right there is the reason why so many people hate pokemon.

I'm not actually contradicting myself. See Pokemon is one of the better anime's when it comes to the game--> anime transition but that doesn't mean its the greatest anime ever. Look, to anime in general Pokemon ranks as one of the worst. Thats what I meant.

OK, so you said that it's the worst anime that was and ever will be, and then all of a sudden it's one of the worst. So what changed your mind?

In addition, you did contradict yourself. Logically, if Pokemon is the one of the better game-->anime translations, then it follows that there are some shows based on video games that you think are worse. Street Fighter, Fatal Fury, Samurai Showdown, Arc the Lad, Final Fantasy, Dragon Warrior, Sonic X...I'm pretty sure that at least one of those are considered "worse" than Pocket Monsters. So, let's say, hypothetically, that you think "Fatal Fury" is a worse anime. If that's true, then you've contradicted the claim that "Pokemon is the worst anime" since you think "Fatal Fury" is worse. So Pokemon is at least better than Fatal Fury.

I think the whole thing boils down to fanboy eliticism. Anime fandom used to be a niche market, this cool foreign thing that only a select few knew about. People used to crowd around their fifth generation 1979 Mobile Suit Gundam raw VHS tapes and LIKED it, so many fans feel that they earned their fandom. Then one day, this show called "Pokemon" comes along and *BAM* anime is thrust into the mainstream. Anime is all over the place and is accessible to everyone, and that pisses some people off. The anime fanboys aren't the only ones who like anime anymore, and suddenly they find that they have to share their Suncoasts and hobby shops with others. So, the reaction is to immediately take it out on that which brought about this change--namely, Pokemon. So they give the show a lot of crap that it doesn't deserve.

And I'm sorry, but I need a much better argument than "the plots are repetitive" followed by a cute little formula that you think every episode follows to back up why people hate the show. Truth be told, I could make one of those "gang meets random character, gang gets attacked by Team Rocket, Pikachu shocks them, etc" lists for just about any anime out there and make it sound just as bad as you guys are trying to make Pokemon sound. It's no less repetitive than any other show out there.

[Animelee]

That's so damn true. It's the reason why I can't bring myself to watch anymore Inuyasha episodes, even though I really want to. I guess I'll get to 'em eventually.

Anyways, they hardly ever do that in Pokemon anymore. It only happened about five times in 50 episodes, which is pretty damn good.

[Tash]

I think Pokemon is the best anime. I like the light-ness of it all. I depress myself watching all of the dark anime :( I'd rather watch Pokemon than Cowboy Bebop or Inuyasha, because that stuff just doesn't appeal to me. I have strange tastes. and you never have to think about the plot (that's always good on a Saturday Morning)

I miss you BMG :(

[Elven Moon]

I hated Pokemon... at first. But then I started watching it and became a fan. I haven't watched a new episode in a very long time (around Orange League), but it still stays with me how much I enjoyed watching back in 1999, 2000.

[Sailor Chibi Otaku]

Am I the only one who watches it in French? I LOVE Pokemon!! :D

Yes, it's for kids, but it's so adorable.

Could a reason also be that many abhor it because of poor voice work in English? I've no idea.

[Ajax]

In addition, you did contradict yourself. Logically, if Pokemon is the one of the better game-->anime translations, then it follows that there are some shows based on video games that you think are worse. Street Fighter, Fatal Fury, Samurai Showdown, Arc the Lad, Final Fantasy, Dragon Warrior, Sonic X...I'm pretty sure that at least one of those are considered "worse" than Pocket Monsters. So, let's say, hypothetically, that you think "Fatal Fury" is a worse anime. If that's true, then you've contradicted the claim that "Pokemon is the worst anime" since you think "Fatal Fury" is worse. So Pokemon is at least better than Fatal Fury.
.
Let me make something clear here. When I said worst, I was referring to the Johto series, and not the Kanto or the up coming advanced series. Since Johto has been on for three freaking years, I based my opinion on Johto. Pokemon in the Johto arc ranks as one of the worst. Johto overshadows anything good Kanto ever accomphlished IMO.

And I'm sorry, but I need a much better argument than "the plots are repetitive" followed by a cute little formula that you think every episode follows to back up why people hate the show. Truth be told, I could make one of those "gang meets random character, gang gets attacked by Team Rocket, Pikachu shocks them, etc" lists for just about any anime out there and make it sound just as bad as you guys are trying to make Pokemon sound. It's no less repetitive than any other show out there
Bro a lot of people have been saying that Pokemon is the greatest show EVER cough:Animelee:cough. And to say that is a bold statement. And if people are going to say something that bold then they better prepare to back it up or there going to get slamed.
You know whats ironic Dogasu, you want a better arguement yet the only arguement that you have is "other animes are like that". You know what, I'm going to need a much better argument than that . Here's one for you. You know a series is bad when you can watch the first five ep. of an arc and skip all the way to the end and not miss a thing. Not even SM and DBZ or even some bad shows were guilty of doing that.

Pokemon on paper looks like a terrible anime, but if you give it a chance its not as bad as people precieve it to be. And even though it may seem I'm contradicting myself, I'm not, this was the point I was trying to get across. I only wanted to critque the show, not bash it. :anime:

[Sailor Chibi Otaku]

With some people, it's the English voice acting that make them shy away from dubbed anime. I got a few people become jealous of me seeing Card Captor Sakura uncut-unedited. I watch CCS in French, though. All the elements are there. The names have changed.

The Dragon Ball series is comprised of mostly fighting, but I've gotten some people who told me that I'm lucky to see it in French. There's a couple I watch in English. Sailor Moon!! *pounces* :D

[Duke]

Am I the only one who watches it in French? I LOVE Pokemon!! :D

Yes, it's for kids, but it's so adorable.

Could a reason also be that many abhor it because of poor voice work in English? I've no idea.

The voice work of the main characters (Ash, Misty, Brock, Jessie, James, and Meowth) aren't bad, as are some of the big supporters (Gary, Oak, Ash's Mom). However, the fact that they have 4 other actors for every other one-timer is ridiculous. The majority of the one-timer boys all have the same exact voice. Oh, and they should have gotten someone else to play Haruka other than Veronica Taylor (Perhaps hire another actor or borrow one of FUNimation's).

[Sailor Chibi Otaku]

In French, the series is dubbed in France. The first movie was also dubbed in France. The rest of the movies were dubbed in Quebec, Canada.

I can't comment on the English voice work as I only get it in French.

[Elven Moon]

Am I the only one who watches it in French? I LOVE Pokemon!! :D

Yes, it's for kids, but it's so adorable.

Could a reason also be that many abhor it because of poor voice work in English? I've no idea.


I have watched the second movie in French and heard some of the songs in French :) I liked it, but I don't know what they're saying, heh ;)

[Animelee]

Comic Book Guy, I just like it better than anything else, ever. My opinion has been like that since September 1998, and I can't really back it up more than I already have in many other topics.

I just like it...er, love it more than anything else. Simple as that. :)

[Dogasu]

Let me make something clear here. When I said worst, I was referring to the Johto series, and not the Kanto or the up coming advanced series. Since Johto has been on for three freaking years, I based my opinion on Johto. Pokemon in the Johto arc ranks as one of the worst.

Then you should have said so. You never made any distinction among the seasons--when you say "Pokémon is the worst anime ever," then of course we're going to think that you're talking about the entire anime. Why wouldn't we?

Johto overshadows anything good Kanto ever accomphlished IMO.

And Advanced Generation overshadows anything bad Jouto ever accomplished.

Bro a lot of people have been saying that Pokemon is the greatest show EVER cough:Animelee:cough.

If by a lot you mean one :rolleyes:...

And to say that is a bold statement. And if people are going to say something that bold then they better prepare to back it up or there going to get slamed.

Why is saying that such-and-such anime is your favorite a "bold statement?" Would you say that someone who picks Cowboy Bebop or FLCL as the greatest show ever is making a "bold statement?" Or Escaflowne? Or Dragon Ball Z? Or Candidate for Goddess? It's as if the mere thought that anyone who would actually like Pocket Monsters (much less call it his or her favorite show) is so ludicrous that you can't comprehend it. Not everyone likes the same shows you like.

You know whats ironic Dogasu, you want a better arguement yet the only arguement that you have is "other animes are like that". You know what, I'm going to need a much better argument than that .

Gladly. Here are the plots of several different shows:

Dragon Ball Z
01) Long-ass recap of the previous episode
02) Protagonist fights villain-of-the-season
03) They stop and talk about how strong they are and how the enemy will never win
04) Random scene of Chi-Chi angry, Bulma angry, Kaio-sama worried, or the "B-cast" doing something "funny"
05) More talking about how strong the enemy is
06) Someone goes Super Saiya-Jin (or whatever the next powerful level is). The enemy is amazed at the heros' new power.
07) One of the heroes has a plan--everyone else works to distract the enemy
08) Random scene of Chi-Chi angry, Bulma angry, Kaio-sama worried, or the "B-cast" doing something "funny"
09) Enemy gets hit by a volley of energy blasts. Smoke clears, and *gasp* the villain's not hurt!
10) Everyone talks about how strong the enemy is
11) Next episode preview

Cowboy Bebop
01) Spike's hungry and poor! Ha ha ha!
02) Everyone hears about a really big bounty, usually through that TV show.
03) They chase after the guy in their own unique ways:
Jet--uses his police contacts to gather information
Spike--beats the information out of his opponents
Faye--distracts men with her breasts and then interrogates them at gunpoint
Ed--hacks into a computer system
04) Insert random chase scene, complete with some jazzy Engrish song
05) Wha-? The bountyhead had a reason for committing whatever crime he committed! That's so sad!
06) Someone (usually the bountyhead with the heart of gold) dies
07) Whoops, no bounty for Spike and the gang. Back to being hungry again!

And, for a non-anime title:

Teen Titans
01) Group is attacked by random villains for no particular reason
02) Titans get their butts handed to them
03) Half the time, someone's captured or put out of commission
04) Everyone learns how valuable the missing member of the team is and learns how to work together
05) They fight the villain again, but this time with a renewed fighting spirit
06) The Titans win and get their friend back, all the while not questioning why the villain was after them in the first place.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

All of the above are based on gross over-generalizations, but so was the similar list about Pokémon. To say that every episode is the same "Satoshi meets trainer, helps trainer out, defeats Team Rocket" plotline is just as ridiculous as saying that all the Cowboy Bebop episodes are like the list above. Yet people will accept the Pokemon list while calling the Cowboy Bebop list "untrue" and "crazy." Pokemon is just as legit an anime as any other.

Here's one for you. You know a series is bad when you can watch the first five ep. of an arc and skip all the way to the end and not miss a thing. Not even SM and DBZ or even some bad shows were guilty of doing that.

With Sailor Moon, usually the only episodes worth watching are the first two or three of the season and the last two or three of the season. The other 90% of each season is just filler and can be skipped without really missing a thing. With Dragon Ball Z, you can leave the show for weeks at a time, come back, and you can jump back in in about two minute's time. "Oh look, they're still fighting Cell. Hmmm, he looks different--he must have become 'perfect' like he was talking about all those weeks ago."

But even then, that doesn't mean the shows are no good. I'm a big fan of Dragon Ball Z and, to a lesser extent, Sailor Moon. I can recognize the shows' various flaws, but that doesn't mean they're still not fun to watch. Yes, Pokemon does repeat a lot of the same plotlines, but it really is no worse than any other show, nor is it any less entertaining.

And even though it may seem I'm contradicting myself, I'm not, this was the point I was trying to get across. I only wanted to critque the show, not bash it. :anime:

If "Pokemon is the worst anime that is and ever will be" isn't bashing the show, then I don't know what is.

[Animelee]

Wow. You basically said everything that I MEANT to say, but was to dumb to put into words.

[EinBebop]

Forbes has published (http://www.forbes.com/home/2003/09/25/cx_al_0926fictionalintro.html) a list of the top ten earning "fictional characters." This is essentially a list of the top ten earning fictional properties, but labeled and presented under the guise of the main character for each property. Rather than Pokemon, the list included an entry for Pikachu, likewise Yugi represented Yu-Gi-Oh!

The top three earners were Winnie the Poo with $5.9 billion, Mickey Mouse with $4.7 billion and Harry Potter with $2.9 billion. Pikachu ranked 8th on the list, earning $825 million and Yugi rounded out the list, earning $725 million.

The amount for each character is the worldwide sum of sales (not profit) for toy/merchandise sales, video game sales, publishing and box-office revenue, and DVD/VHS sales and rental revenue.

The list excluded properties that did not relate to narrative stories (books, movies, video games, etc...), for example Barbie, who earned $3.6 billion in 2002 was excluded from the list.

- Anime News Network

[Sailor Chibi Otaku]

The top three earners were Winnie the Poo with $5.9 billion

*coughsrightfullybelongstotheheirsofthecreatoruphereinCanadacoughs*

Just sayin'.

In French, the voice actors are always the same (except for all but one movie, as I've said before).

[Taco Addict]

Bro a lot of people have been saying that Pokemon is the greatest show EVER cough:Animelee:cough. And to say that is a bold statement. And if people are going to say something that bold then they better prepare to back it up or there going to get slamed.

That is where your wrong my friend, for you made the bold statement not Animelee.

Well, I think it's the best show that was, is, and ever will be.

You see here Animelee has said that he thinks (indicating opinion.) it is the best anime ever. However when we take a look at what you said:

To anime in general, Pokemon is the worst that was is and ever will be. .

That is stated as though it is an undisputable fact and not an opinion. It is about 100x more bold to say a highly popular anime is the worst anime ever than it is to say that in your opinion that anime is the best anime ever.

[Ajax]

And Advanced Generation overshadows anything bad Jouto ever accomplished. Its probably ture but we don't know that yet.

Then you should have said so. You never made any distinction among the seasons--when you say "Pokémon is the worst anime ever," then of course we're going to think that you're talking about the entire anime. Why wouldn't we? Yeah and I regert no doing so early.

Why is saying that such-and-such anime is your favorite a "bold statement?" Would you say that someone who picks Cowboy Bebop or FLCL as the greatest show ever is making a "bold statement?" Or Escaflowne? Or Dragon Ball Z? Or Candidate for Goddess? It's as if the mere thought that anyone who would actually like Pocket Monsters (much less call it his or her favorite show) is so ludicrous that you can't comprehend it. Not everyone likes the same shows you like. Yeah it is. Because Animelee said, the greatest EVER, ceraintly you can argree with me that Pokemon on paper is inferior to anime like Gundam. And that arguement you gave didn't prove crap. The only thing it did was remind me how much better DBZ, CB, and SM were. Forget about reptieveness, the predictablilty is what kills Pokemon. Who could of perdicted Cowboy Bebophs end? I bet you didn't go into every ep. and say, **** I already know whats going to happen. I bet you didn't start watching Kenshin and say, **** I already know whats going to happen.
As in case for SM, at least every filler concentraded on different Senshi and there powers. At least the fillers were for a good reason (to build up for the final battle). In Pokemon its the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over. The same villians, the same people, the same attack, the pokemon defeating the same other pokemon. And really, it wouldn't be so bad if this happened ocassionally, but its was like this for 3 years.

But even then, that doesn't mean the shows are no good. I'm a big fan of Dragon Ball Z and, to a lesser extent, Sailor Moon. I can recognize the shows' various flaws, but that doesn't mean they're still not fun to watch. Yes, Pokemon does repeat a lot of the same plotlines, but it really is no worse than any other show, nor is it any less entertaining. Thats what I've been saying about Pokemon. I think the last three years of Pokemon have been the worst on TV, doesn't mean I hated the show.

If "Pokemon is the worst anime that is and ever will be" isn't bashing the show, then I don't know what is Hey I gave my reasons for "bashing". I didn't just say, POKEMON SUCKS ASS, YOU GUYS ARE LOSERS FOR WATCHING IT.

[Duke]

Yeah it is. Because Animelee said, the greatest EVER, ceraintly you can argree with me that Pokemon on paper is inferior to anime like Gundam. And that arguement you gave didn't prove crap. The only thing it did was remind me how much better DBZ, CB, and SM were. Forget about reptieveness, the predictablilty is what kills Pokemon. Who could of perdicted Cowboy Bebophs end? I bet you didn't go into every ep. and say, **** I already know whats going to happen. I bet you didn't start watching Kenshin and say, **** I already know whats going to happen.
As in case for SM, at least every filler concentraded on different Senshi and there powers. At least the fillers were for a good reason (to build up for the final battle). In Pokemon its the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over. The same villians, the same people, the same attack, the pokemon defeating the same other pokemon. And really, it wouldn't be so bad if this happened ocassionally, but its was like this for 3 years.

To be honest, Pokémon #3 favorite anime, while Bebop is #5 (right behind Big O. If you're wondering my #1 & 2, it's Gundam and Excel Saga).

Just because Pokémon doesn't have the same level of writing, animation, and whatnot as Cowboy Bebop doesn't mean it can't be someone's favorite anime ever. Whatever someone's favorite anime is is pretty much that person's "best anime ever."

[Ajax]

Just because Pokémon doesn't have the same level of writing, animation, and whatnot as Cowboy Bebop doesn't mean it can't be someone's favorite anime ever. Thank you Duke. Thats all I wanted somebody to say, that Pokemon isn't on the same level as other anime. But Duke, never did I say, because it isn't on the same level that you can't enjoy it. Go ahead and read the four posts that I made if you don't believe me. Because, I myself like SM over Cowboy Bebop and Trigun.

I never said Pokemon wasn't popular or unenjoyable, or that you guys are losers for watching it (I wouldn't because I watch it too).

[Kirby]

Why do people hate Pokemon? Oh, I can think of a Couple of Reasons.

1. The Game is mediocre at Best; Just a Cockfight simulation with some various Zelda and EarthBound elements. Both Zelda and EB had good plots, but pokemon is about some brat Catching deformed rodents, birds, lizards and Toxic Waste dump rejects in plastic containers. They are only let out to cockfight just so Ash, our "noble hero" can collect money and Personal Glory.

2. The Anime is Even Worse. It's just a Half-hour commercial with a super-repetitive plot. The animation looks like something Filmation put out in the 70's and is just as hair-raising, content-wise. Just a Gameboy based on cockfighting turned into an Anime based on Cockfighting. Adding compost to horsecrap, When 4Kids (which has got to be the worst Anime localizer ever) stripped the Anime of its more mature elements (in essence, the only good thing about Pokemon) and ruined an already bad cartoon/anime.

3. Pokemon was Sold out to the Bone. It actually got to the Point where Nintendo, Game Freak, Hasbro and Wizards of the Coast invented a Brainwashing technique (Gotta Catch 'em all) to prey on innocent, impressionable children. Pokemon took Shameless, Crass Commercialism to places Disney and Enron wouldn't touch with a 10-foot pole, just so Nintendo and various other companies can Loosen the Wallets of the Parents of Children they brainwashed, Reaching a record, all-time low with Pokemon Cards. Fanboys call Pokemon Cards a fun, normal hobby, like Baseball Cards, But On the Other Hand, I've never Heard of Children robbing other Children at gunpoint over Baseball Cards (which is sadly the Case with Pokemon Cards). In Fact, with Pokemon Cards, Gunpoint robbings are hardly the Tip of the Iceberg. I've heard numerous cases of Theft, Murder, Brutality and many other acts, all cause by Kids wanting "rare" Pokemon cards. Kids will even Shoplift Pokemon Cards from Stores that Carry them, but they don't shoplift Coins, Collectibles, or even the Cash Register. Quite melodramatic over Pieces of cardboard that are produced in massive amounts in the Orients (I don't even want to Know how many Sweatshops wordwide are cranking out Pokecrap. Nintendo must be a regular Kathie Lee Gifford)

[Sailor Chibi Otaku]

I must be lucky, then?

[SNS]

They are only let out to cockfight just so Ash, our "noble hero" can collect money and Personal Glory.

Just a Gameboy based on cockfighting turned into an Anime based on Cockfighting.

Quit comparing Pokemon fights to cockfighting. Pokemon aren't driven by instinct, they can make decisions. Ash's Pokemon fight not because they are forced but because they choose to fight.

[Animelee]

Quit comparing Pokemon fights to cockfighting. Pokemon aren't driven by instinct, they can make decisions. Ash's Pokemon fight not because they are forced but because they choose to fight.

Exactly. Most Pokemon think on the same levels as humans -- except maybe Koduck/Psyduck or Eneko/Skitty, and to a lesser extent, Sonansu/Wobbuffet.

Also, what is this I hear about "levels"? Just because one cartoon is more mature than another doesn't mean the less mature cartoon in inferior. When was it a rule the mature cartoons were automatically better?

And Kirby, you say that the only good things about Pokemon are the "mature" elements in its original Japanese version. Well, what about Kirby? I've seen a few episodes of the cartoon in its original Japanese, and it's not exactly mature.

You people convince me that all Japanese cartoon -- I mean, ANIME fans, are just nerdy people in real life who watch "mature" Japanese cartoons because it makes you feel like big men. I'm not saying you are nerds, but, you sure are convincing me.

[Beat]

Not really. I'd rather watch Leno than the current crop of Adult Swim reruns. I don't consider myself a nerd, per se. Of course, I haven't seen Pokemon in three years, so I'm not one to judge. Just don't say it's the best TV show ever.

[Animelee]

The thing is, everyone is entitled to their opinions, including me. So, why does everyone get diarrhea whenever I express my opinion and say that Pokemon is the best show, ever?

[Kirby]

Quit comparing Pokemon fights to cockfighting. Pokemon aren't driven by instinct, they can make decisions. Ash's Pokemon fight not because they are forced but because they choose to fight.

I knew it. I just KNEW SNS would say something like that (I'm still anticipating Animation Otaku, Dogasu and Loser to try and counter me too). The Only Difference between a Pokemon "battle" and a cockfight is that Pokemon don't neccesarily fight to the death but, in essence That's it for real differences. Any more takers, Pokemon fanboys?

[Duke]

Like he said, they choose to fight. There have been plenty of instances where Pokémon refuse to fight. (Charizard, Primeape, Meowth, Arbok, Weezing, Victreebel, Politoed, Wobuffet, Pikachu, etc.)

[Animation Otaku]

I knew it. I just KNEW SNS would say something like that (I'm still anticipating Animation Otaku, Dogasu and Loser to try and counter me too). The Only Difference between a Pokemon "battle" and a cockfight is that Pokemon don't neccesarily fight to the death but, in essence That's it for real differences. Any more takers, Pokemon fanboys?

As commanded I'm here. :anime:

Seriously, if you don't like Pokemon, that's fine with me. But what's your deal with cockfighting. Besides the fact that Pokemon choose to fight, there are also Pokemon who willingly choose not to fight, and in most cases simply don't fight. Eg, Togepi. If Pokemon were being forced to fight against their will you could make that case, but they aren't. Pokemon and their trainer are team that work together. Just because Satoshi isn't normally in danger(except in the movies and certain episodes) doesn't mean that he just let's his Pokemon fight around. Pokemon battling is a combination of a trainer coming up with strategies and the Pokemon executing them. If the Pokemon thinks that the trainer is wrong then they won't listen to them(Lizardon). There isn't a similarity to cockfighting their. Next inherently wrong point please.

[Jaguar]

I don't hate Pokemon, Orange Island episodes notwithstanding.

[Animation Otaku]

I don't hate Pokemon, Orange Island episodes notwithstanding.
So you like Johto more than Orange Islands?

[Dogasu]

Because Animelee said, the greatest EVER, ceraintly you can argree with me that Pokemon on paper is inferior to anime like Gundam.

Why? Because it doesn't have x amount of violence or sexual situations? Because it doesn't get bogged down with a bunch of political commentary and an ongoing "war is Hell" theme? Because it hasn't been around for three decades?

Thats all I wanted somebody to say, that Pokemon isn't on the same level as other anime. But Duke, never did I say, because it isn't on the same level that you can't enjoy it.

I don't agree with this whole anime hierarchy thing you have set up. Saying that one anime isn't "on the same level" as another anime is completely ridiculous. What makes Pokemon less of an anime than Gundam or Cowboy Bebop or any other anime? Because it's not based on a manga? If that's the case, then neither Cowboy Bebop nor any of the Gundam series are "real" anime. Because it features a bunch of kids as the main characters? Then Naruto and Shin-chan aren't real anime either. No huge amounts of violence? Well then sorry, Sonic X and Love Hina, but Comic Book Guy doesn't think you're anime. The lack of sexual innuendo/blatant sex? Then I guess all those Gundam series and the Big O aren't anime, huh? Immature fans? Then I guess that Inu-Yasha and Dragon Ball Z were made in America then.

And that arguement you gave didn't prove crap. The only thing it did was remind me how much better DBZ, CB, and SM were. Forget about reptieveness, the predictablilty is what kills Pokemon. Who could of perdicted Cowboy Bebophs end?

But since Pokemon hasn't ended yet, you can't compare the ending of one anime to the non-existant ending of another. Wait until Pokemon ends and then we'll talk.

I bet you didn't go into every ep. and say, **** I already know whats going to happen.

I kinda did, since just about every episode ended with the gang not getting the bounty, for one reason or another. The show was pretty much a bunch of self-contained stories with a few two-parters here and there, so, for the most part, the episode had to end the same way it began.

I bet you didn't start watching Kenshin and say, **** I already know whats going to happen.

No, but I don't do that with Pokemon either. Rurouni Kenshin was based on the manga, and, except for the post-Kyoto Arc episodes, it followed it pretty closely. Pokemon, while it IS based on the plot of the video games, adheres to the plotline a lot less and Kenshin did. I could name dozens of differences between the anime and the games, while I couldn't do that with Kenshin and the manga.

As in case for SM, at least every filler concentraded on different Senshi and there powers. At least the fillers were for a good reason (to build up for the final battle).

Are we talking about the same Sailor Moon here? Most of the filler episodes aren't focused on any of the Senshi at all--they usually consist of Usagi-tachi helping out some random-target-of-the-week. And the ones that ARE usually just have them getting new attacks which will be useless against the season's final bad guy anyway. Unless your name begins with "Sailor" and ends in "Moon," you ain't gonna do crap against the final villain.

In Pokemon its the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over. The same villians, the same people, the same attack, the pokemon defeating the same other pokemon. And really, it wouldn't be so bad if this happened ocassionally, but its was like this for 3 years.

Well, Sailor Moon did that for five years :sweat:

I'd respond to Kirby's post, but this one is long enough as it is, so I'll save that for another time.

The thing is, everyone is entitled to their opinions, including me. So, why does everyone get diarrhea whenever I express my opinion and say that Pokemon is the best show, ever?

Amen :D

[Kirby]

2 out of 3 Ain't Bad. I'm still waiting for Loser to show up... Anyway, You guys say what wou want about the Cockfight analogy, but You can't get me to say my Comparison is wrong. On a slightly Different Matter, I Dare Pokemon Fanboys to try and Defend Pokemon's Wickede Commercialism.

[Animation Otaku]

2 out of 3 Ain't Bad. I'm still waiting for Loser to show up... Anyway, You guys say what wou want about the Cockfight analogy, but You can't get me to say my Comparison is wrong. On a slightly Different Matter, I Dare Pokemon Fanboys to try and Defend Pokemon's Wickede Commercialism.

OMG!!! It's based on a video-game! That makes it wicked commercialism. Seriously, it's based on a game, and there are cards and toys that are sold seperately. Almost all cartoons have cards and toys that are used in attempt to make more money.

[Youko Recca]

1.How does it end the same way it began?(Bebop)

2.Why do differences matter?

[Duke]

OMG!!! It's based on a video-game! That makes it wicked commercialism. Seriously, it's based on a game, and there are cards and toys that are sold seperately. Almost all cartoons have cards and toys that are used in attempt to make more money.

Pokémon's just one of the few that have succeeded.

[Ben]

Kirby, calm down. Pokemon fans are entitled to their opinions (no matter how much we may disagree with some of them) and condescendingly calling them fanboys isn't going to help your argument. This is a discussion, not a boxing match.

As to the topic, Pokemon is commercialized, but the card game is actually fun. So whatever.

[Sora Takenouchi]

I don't agree with this whole anime hierarchy thing you have set up. Saying that one anime isn't "on the same level" as another anime is completely ridiculous. What makes Pokemon less of an anime than Gundam or Cowboy Bebop or any other anime? Because it's not based on a manga? If that's the case, then neither Cowboy Bebop nor any of the Gundam series are "real" anime. Because it features a bunch of kids as the main characters? Then Naruto and Shin-chan aren't real anime either. No huge amounts of violence? Well then sorry, Sonic X and Love Hina, but Comic Book Guy doesn't think you're anime. The lack of sexual innuendo/blatant sex? Then I guess all those Gundam series and the Big O aren't anime, huh? Immature fans? Then I guess that Inu-Yasha and Dragon Ball Z were made in America then.

I agree. Just because Pokemon isn't on the same "level" as Cowboy Bebop doesn't mean someone can't enjoy it more. Everyone has different tastes and if Animelee considers Pokemon the best show ever than he can freely do so. There is no "hierachy" when it comes to personal taste.

[Ajax]

Why? Because it doesn't have x amount of violence or sexual situations? Because it doesn't get bogged down with a bunch of political commentary and an ongoing "war is Hell" theme? Because it hasn't been around for three decades? Better than a 30 minute commercial aimed at tweens where the same plot is over used a million times. Sure bring up SM and DBZ but like you mentioned, they've ended and surely something so popular, new and great like Pokemon wouldn't let itself comprise of so many fillers.

I don't agree with this whole anime hierarchy thing you have set up. Saying that one anime isn't "on the same level" as another anime is completely ridiculous Oh my God, is Dogusa calling my opinion ridiculous? I don't believe it.
What makes Pokemon less of an anime than Gundam or Cowboy Bebop or any other anime I'm just hoping somebody else can answer that question, because I'm just too tired of repeating myself.

Because it features a bunch of kids as the main characters? Then Naruto and Shin-chan aren't real anime either. No huge amounts of violence? Well then sorry, Sonic X and Love Hina, but Comic Book Guy doesn't think you're anime. The lack of sexual innuendo/blatant sex? Then I guess all those Gundam series and the Big O aren't anime, huh? Immature fans? Then I guess that Inu-Yasha and Dragon Ball Z were made in America then. Now Dogusa putting words in my mouth? I just don't understand? :rolleyes: I never said they weren't real anime. I just said Pokemon isn't on par with other anime when it comes to quailty. Hell, I play basketball and some players aren't on the same level as me when it comes to skill, doesn't mean there not "real" players.


I kinda did, since just about every episode ended with the gang not getting the bounty, for one reason or another. The show was pretty much a bunch of self-contained stories with a few two-parters here and there, so, for the most part, the episode had to end the same way it began.
No, but I don't do that with Pokemon either.
Wait...wait, let me get this straight. You went into every ep. of Cowboy Bebop knowing what was going to happen, yet that never happened to you when watching Pokemon. Hmmmm.....? I want to leave this to the anime fans. What was more predictable: Pokemon or Cowboy Bebop?


Well, Sailor Moon did that for five years :sweat: Well hold on, lets count Kanto and The Orange Islands. That equals five years too! :sweat:


I agree. Just because Pokemon isn't on the same "level" as Cowboy Bebop doesn't mean someone can't enjoy it more Next time Sora, when grown men are talking, you should shut your mouth and actually read:

But Duke, never did I say, because it isn't on the same level that you can't enjoy it. Go ahead and read the four posts that I made if you don't believe me. Because, I myself like SM over Cowboy Bebop and Trigun.

I never said Pokemon wasn't popular or unenjoyable, or that you guys are losers for watching it (I wouldn't because I watch it too).

[Dogasu]

1.How does it end the same way it began?(Bebop)

Stand-alone episodes are called "stand-alone" because they end the same way they begin. At the end of, say, "Mushroom Samba," the gang still consists of Spike, Jet, Ein, Faye, and Ed, the gang's still poor, they're still hungry, and they still depend on money from bounties to survive. It's not like, say, "Hard Luck Woman," where at the end of the episode there's a line-up change or anything like that. It's like the Simpsons...except for a few episodes, you can pretty much watch any episode in any order and not be lost at all.

2.Why do differences matter?

Come again? I don't quite understand the question.

And now, because it's slow at work and we have no customers, I'll tackle Kirby's post:

1. The Game is mediocre at Best; Just a Cockfight simulation with some various Zelda and EarthBound elements. Both Zelda and EB had good plots, but pokemon is about some brat Catching deformed rodents, birds, lizards and Toxic Waste dump rejects in plastic containers. They are only let out to cockfight just so Ash, our "noble hero" can collect money and Personal Glory.

While the games aren't the best RPG's on the market, I'd hardly call them "mediocre." Besides, would a "mediocre" game be able to more or less revive the dying handheld market? Obviously there's more to it than mindlessly building up pokemon levels. While the plot for the first game was pretty much non-existant, you could say the same thing about the early Zelda games (IMO, "Orcarina of Time" was the first Zelda game that had a plot outside of the old "go to these eight dungeons in this order and get these eight items to beat Ganon"). And the plots do get better--Ruby and Sapphire are a lot more plot-driven than Red, Blue, Gold, Silver, or any of the others. And then there's the upcoming Pokemon Colosseum for the GameCube, which will have an RPG mode that looks to be very intriguing.

2. The Anime is Even Worse. It's just a Half-hour commercial with a super-repetitive plot. The animation looks like something Filmation put out in the 70's and is just as hair-raising, content-wise.

So Pokemon had a low budget. Big deal. I don't see you talking about how lousy Sailor Moon or Dragon Ball Z look, and both of those shows have about the same budget as Pocket Monsters. And besides, the show has fixed the animation problem--after "Here's Lookin' at You, Elekid," the animation took a noticeably turn for the best. Watch the flashback scene in "Gotta Catch Ya Later" beside the newer animation and tell me the animation hasn't improved.

Just a Gameboy based on cockfighting turned into an Anime based on Cockfighting.

There is a lot of evidence to counter your claim that Pokemon is based on cockfighting. In "Dig Those Diglett," the Pokemon refused to fight the Diglett because they didn't want to, and none of the trainers tried to force their pokemon to fight against their will. Pikachu didn't want to fight Misty when Ash faced her at the Cerulean Gym, so Ash didn't make it. There are other instances when the pokemon wouldn't fight because their trainers told them to, making any comparison between it and cockfighting absolutely ridiculous. Besides, the animals used in cockfighting are usually treated very inhumanely, which is quite a bit different from the way pokemon are treated in the anime.

EDIT: Whoops, forgot that you can't say cockfighting minus the -fighting part. So I changed ***** to animals.

Adding compost to horsecrap, When 4Kids (which has got to be the worst Anime localizer ever) stripped the Anime of its more mature elements (in essence, the only good thing about Pokemon) and ruined an already bad cartoon/anime.

1) What "mature" elements are you talking about? The English version of the show has pretty much the same tone as the Japanese version (and I should know :p )

2) It's not the anime's fault if it was dubbed poorly. Dragon Ball Z, Sailor Moon, Saint Seiya, Card Captor Sakura, and Escaflowne all had terrible dubs, but that doesn't necessarily mean that any of those series are bad.

3. ...Reaching a record, all-time low with Pokemon Cards. Fanboys call Pokemon Cards a fun, normal hobby, like Baseball Cards, But On the Other Hand, I've never Heard of Children robbing other Children at gunpoint over Baseball Cards (which is sadly the Case with Pokemon Cards). In Fact, with Pokemon Cards, Gunpoint robbings are hardly the Tip of the Iceberg. I've heard numerous cases of Theft, Murder, Brutality and many other acts, all cause by Kids wanting "rare" Pokemon cards. Kids will even Shoplift Pokemon Cards from Stores that Carry them, but they don't shoplift Coins, Collectibles, or even the Cash Register. Quite melodramatic over Pieces of cardboard that are produced in massive amounts in the Orients (I don't even want to Know how many Sweatshops wordwide are cranking out Pokecrap. Nintendo must be a regular Kathie Lee Gifford)

Oh, hello. I didn't realize we were still in the year 1999, when all of this stuff you're talking about was going on.

The "fad" stage of the franchise is over. We no longer have companies pumping out Pokemon bedsheets and toothpaste and cereal and what-have-you. So while it's true that there was a time that Pokemon oversaturated the market, that time has long past. Go down your local toy store aisle and see how much Pokemon stuff is there compared to a few years ago.

Which is also when all those crimes were committed. And frankly, anyone who would kill someone over a Pokemon card was mentally disturbed to begin with, whether Pokemon existed or not. It's not Pokemon's fault that kids beat each other up for the cards, just as it's not Dungeons and Dragons' fault for those teens dying in that cave nor is it Grand Theft Auto III's fault for those teens who decided to re-enact the crimes depicted in the video games. Blame bad parenting, blame mental disorders, blame peer pressure--but don't blame the media.

[Animelee]

Next time Sora, when grown men are talking, you should shut your mouth and actually read:

When you have to resort to petty name-calling, that's a sure sign of insecurity, not to mention immaturity.

3. ...Reaching a record, all-time low with Pokemon Cards. Fanboys call Pokemon Cards a fun, normal hobby, like Baseball Cards, But On the Other Hand, I've never Heard of Children robbing other Children at gunpoint over Baseball Cards (which is sadly the Case with Pokemon Cards). In Fact, with Pokemon Cards, Gunpoint robbings are hardly the Tip of the Iceberg. I've heard numerous cases of Theft, Murder, Brutality and many other acts, all cause by Kids wanting "rare" Pokemon cards. Kids will even Shoplift Pokemon Cards from Stores that Carry them, but they don't shoplift Coins, Collectibles, or even the Cash Register. Quite melodramatic over Pieces of cardboard that are produced in massive amounts in the Orients (I don't even want to Know how many Sweatshops wordwide are cranking out Pokecrap. Nintendo must be a regular Kathie Lee Gifford)

Saying Pokemon is responsible for the action of the general public is like saying all guns should be banned because they themselves kill, without a person behind the trigger.

[Dogasu]

Oh my God, is Dogusa calling my opinion ridiculous? I don't believe it.

Oooh, I feel burned. :rolleyes:

By the way, it's "Dogasu," not "Dogusa."

I'm just hoping somebody else can answer that question, because I'm just too tired of repeating myself.

How convenient :yawn:

I never said they weren't real anime. I just said Pokemon isn't on par with other anime when it comes to quailty. Hell, I play basketball and some players aren't on the same level as me when it comes to skill, doesn't mean there not "real" players.

You can say someone isn't on the same level as you in basketball because they can't shoot as well as you, or they don't have the endurance that you do, or they aren't team players, or a number of other measurable factors. In fact, people like sports columnists and the people at ESPN make a living off of judging such qualities.

But judging the quality of an anime isn't so clear-cut and is always highly subjective. Comparing the animation quality of, say, Cowboy Bebop and Pokemon is unfair for a number of reasons. Cowboy Bebop is a much shorter series, so it got a better budget. They only made 13 episodes of Cowboy Bebop a year, while they make 52 episodes of Pocket Monsters each year.

Wait...wait, let me get this straight. You went into every ep. of Cowboy Bebop knowing what was going to happen, yet that never happened to you when watching Pokemon. Hmmmm.....? I want to leave this to the anime fans. What was more predictable: Pokemon or Cowboy Bebop?

Never said that. I said that, except for the odd episode here and there, the endings were pretty predictable. I never said that the same wasn't true for Pocket Monsters, but that doesn't mean that it's the "worst anime that is or ever will be."

And I also don't appreciate the implication that Pokemon fans aren't anime fans.

Well hold on, lets count Kanto and The Orange Islands. That equals five years too! :sweat:

Yet you stressed that you only really disliked the Johto season, which only lasted three years.

Next time Sora, when grown men are talking, you should shut your mouth and actually read:

Wow, way to keep this thread civil. Now, thanks to you, this thread will probably get closed. If I was a mod and read that, I'd probably close that too.

You must be proud of yourself :shrug:

I also find it funny that nobody's bothered to answer Animelee's question:

The thing is, everyone is entitled to their opinions, including me. So, why does everyone get diarrhea whenever I express my opinion and say that Pokemon is the best show, ever?

I'd like to know the answer to that myself.

[Beat]

Because of the existence of programs like The West Wing, The Cosby Show, M*A*S*H and countless other programs. And Gundam is better in my opinion, but in that aspect, I'm biased. Besides, look how long Gundam's been around.

[Sora Takenouchi]

Next time Sora, when grown men are talking, you should shut your mouth and actually read:


Way to show your own maturity. :rolleyes: And I did read, that's why I replied. But apparently I wasn't clear enough you.


But Duke, never did I say, because it isn't on the same level that you can't enjoy it. Go ahead and read the four posts that I made if you don't believe me. Because, I myself like SM over Cowboy Bebop and Trigun.

I never said Pokemon wasn't popular or unenjoyable, or that you guys are losers for watching it (I wouldn't because I watch it too).

Yes, you said that and I said just because it isn't on the same "level" doesn't mean you can't enjoy it MORE. people have different tastes so what's gold to someone could merely be bronze to someone else. Did you know there are people who find Bebop too depressing? So of course they would appreciate the lighthearted atmosphere of Pokemon more. To them Pokemon > Cowboy Bebop because they can enjoy it more. So don't say someone shouldn't call Pokemon the best show ever, because they can. Only you can determine what the best anime is to you, not anyone else.

[Duke]

Jeez, if you want repetitiveness, look at Ranma.

1) Ranma & Co. meet random one-timer. May or may not have the ability to change.
2) Newcomer somehow pisses off Ranma.
3) Ranma is changed into a girl. Is made fun of.
4) Newcomer falls in love with Akane and/or kidnaps her.
5) Ranma saves Akane in some hilarious way and they fight, again.

Of course, sometimes the newcomer is replaced by an old rival or team-up, but it's not that big of a change.

[Yash]

2 out of 3 Ain't Bad. I'm still waiting for Loser to show up... Anyway, You guys say what wou want about the Cockfight analogy, but You can't get me to say my Comparison is wrong. On a slightly Different Matter, I Dare Pokemon Fanboys to try and Defend Pokemon's Wickede Commercialism.

You requested my presence? :p

So Pokemon's a popular video game, that makes it wicked commercialism uh-huh. I guess that means that your precious Mario and Zelda games are wicked commercialism too huh? Because both of those are rather popular and to an extent overrated, don't deny it. Now, in response to your first post.

1. The Game is mediocre at Best; Just a Cockfight simulation with some various Zelda and EarthBound elements. Both Zelda and EB had good plots, but pokemon is about some brat Catching deformed rodents, birds, lizards and Toxic Waste dump rejects in plastic containers. They are only let out to cockfight just so Ash, our "noble hero" can collect money and Personal Glory.

Lay off the cockfighting please. If you didn't notice, Pokemon is an RPG, and so are Zelda and Earthbound. Thus it'll have RPG elements. O NOEZ!!1

No, Pokemon's plot isn't the best ever. But why should that get in the way? And Ash doesn't just fight for money... in case you didn't notice, Ash never gets money for any of his battles, manga and anime alike. In case you'll bring up the games to try to counter my arguement, every RPG needs a variant of money. Pokemon just uses... umm... money :p

The Anime is Even Worse. It's just a Half-hour commercial with a super-repetitive plot. The animation looks like something Filmation put out in the 70's and is just as hair-raising, content-wise. Just a Gameboy based on cockfighting turned into an Anime based on Cockfighting. Adding compost to horsecrap, When 4Kids (which has got to be the worst Anime localizer ever) stripped the Anime of its more mature elements (in essence, the only good thing about Pokemon) and ruined an already bad cartoon/anime.

Using the same words (i.e. cockfighting) over and over again gets both annoying and it also shows how huge your vocabulary is. Please, watch Advanced Generation, and then use the same super-repetitive arguement against us again. And as Dogasu said, it's not the Anime's fault that it got 4Crap as their dubbing studio. Besides, it didn't have any mature content to begin with... the most adult content I've seen in Pokemon is James' inflatable breasts and even then it was edited out of the dub (for obvious reasons).

3. Pokemon was Sold out to the Bone. It actually got to the Point where Nintendo, Game Freak, Hasbro and Wizards of the Coast invented a Brainwashing technique (Gotta Catch 'em all) to prey on innocent, impressionable children. Pokemon took Shameless, Crass Commercialism to places Disney and Enron wouldn't touch with a 10-foot pole, just so Nintendo and various other companies can Loosen the Wallets of the Parents of Children they brainwashed, Reaching a record, all-time low with Pokemon Cards. Fanboys call Pokemon Cards a fun, normal hobby, like Baseball Cards, But On the Other Hand, I've never Heard of Children robbing other Children at gunpoint over Baseball Cards (which is sadly the Case with Pokemon Cards). In Fact, with Pokemon Cards, Gunpoint robbings are hardly the Tip of the Iceberg. I've heard numerous cases of Theft, Murder, Brutality and many other acts, all cause by Kids wanting "rare" Pokemon cards. Kids will even Shoplift Pokemon Cards from Stores that Carry them, but they don't shoplift Coins, Collectibles, or even the Cash Register. Quite melodramatic over Pieces of cardboard that are produced in massive amounts in the Orients (I don't even want to Know how many Sweatshops wordwide are cranking out Pokecrap. Nintendo must be a regular Kathie Lee Gifford)

I didn't know that we were still living in 1999. It's not the fault of the cards that idiots like these are doing these things, it's THEIR fault and nobody else's. These cases are long since over anyway.

My opinion on the Pokemon TCG? Well, I've never been good at TCGs really but I find it a fun game to play. I buy booster backs to get good cards to help improve my collection/decks and come up with good strategies. Now that I've brought up that fact, you'll call me a pathetic insult to the human race with an obsession with cockfighting monsters and who wastes time and money on the TCG or something to that extent. To which other posters, maybe myself included, will respond and make you look like more of an idiot than you've already made yourself out to be.

Burn.

[Duke]

in case you didn't notice, Ash never gets money for any of his battles, manga and anime alike.

Which brings up the question: Where DOES Ash get his money from?

[Ajax]

To Dogasu, sorry about mispelling.
Never said that. I said that, except for the odd episode here and there, the endings were pretty predictable. I never said that the same wasn't true for Pocket Monsters, but that doesn't mean that it's the "worst anime that is or ever will be." And it doesn't mean its the greatest either.

Yet you stressed that you only really disliked the Johto season, which only lasted three years. Yet you stressed that all anime is somehow repeative, therefore the Kanto and Orange Islands were too. So that equals five years.


The thing is, everyone is entitled to their opinions, including me. So, why does everyone get diarrhea whenever I express my opinion and say that Pokemon is the best show, ever? Ok I'll answer it, but first let me ask you something. If everyone is entitled to there own opinion why did everybody jump on me when I said it was the worst ever? Was it because it sounded like a fact? Hell thats there problem if they misinterpeted my opinion. To answer your question Dogasu, its because anything that I say to Animelee will just end up with him saying "it because its my opinion" so I don't really bother with him anymore.

[Yash]

Which brings up the question: Where DOES Ash get his money from?

They don't tell you because that'd spoil it :p

[Animation Otaku]

Which brings up the question: Where DOES Ash get his money from?

From Kasumi/Misty. And they can't tell you how she gets it, this is a kids show afterall. :D

[Animelee]

To answer your question Dogasu, its because anything that I say to Animelee will just end up with him saying "it because its my opinion" so I don't really bother with him anymore.

I say that only as a protest, because I am trying to prove a point -- I don't have to explain myself for liking Pokemon, and putting it on a higher level than any other cartoon, or show, for that matter, and neither do you have to explain yourself for liking Kenshin or Bebop more than Pokemon.

I don't mind the fact that you think Pokemon is not up to standard when compared to other shows, but the way you guys (especially Kirby) said it kind of made it sound like were stating a fact, rather than an opinion.

I'm not trying to argue here, just trying to come to an understanding.

Oh, and about the money issue -- perhaps Satoshi gets the money from his mom, or maybe he does win money from battles? Or maybe trainers get special rights from the government to get free products, for which the store-owners are reimbursed (sp)?

[Nin-Nin69]

The Pokemon RPG's for the GB/GBA are without question some of the greatest games created by Nintendo.

The show on the other hand, it's not so much the kid target that makes me hate it, its the kid infulence that makes people feel prejudice towards the japanese animation industry. It gives the same feeling in the US that similar to DBZ, Yu-Gi-Oh!, Card Captors, or Beyblade. It's ticks me off when I hear parents, teens, or people on TV making references to Pokemon or these shows and saying thats how all anime is and it's sucks eggs.

And Cyber E sumed it up perfictly for me when he told us the plot of the story.

1. Ash & Co. walk
2. Ash & Co. meet Pokèmon
3. Ash & Co. meet Person
4. TEAM ROCKET BAD >:O
5. Ash & Co. talk with Person and/or Pokèmon
6. TEAM ROCKET STRIKE >:O
7. Ash & Co. defeat TEAM ROCKET ONCE AGAIN!
8. TEAM ROCKET GO AWAY BUT COME BACK NEXT EPISODE >:O
9. Ash & Co. walk into the sunset after saying goodbye to Person and/or Pokèmon.
[/fin]

Sorry I never saw the advance....blah blah. 4Kids never caught my attention because of the style they destroy japanese anime.

[Dogasu]

Ok I'll answer it, but first let me ask you something. If everyone is entitled to there own opinion why did everybody jump on me when I said it was the worst ever? Was it because it sounded like a fact? Hell thats there problem if they misinterpeted my opinion.

There are tactful ways of disagreeing with someone without being an ass about it:

Originally Posted by Conekiller
they DID say that it was the best videogame--> tv show,

Ok, I think we can all agree on that.

But this:

Well, I think it's the best show that was, is, and ever will be.

Hell no. To anime in general, Pokemon is the worst that was is and ever will be. Look, any day I'd go out on a limb and defend Pokemon, but that statmen right there is the reason why so many people hate pokemon.

Bro a lot of people have been saying that Pokemon is the greatest show EVER cough:Animelee:cough. And to say that is a bold statement. And if people are going to say something that bold then they better prepare to back it up or there going to get slamed.

It's one thing to disagree with someone, but to tell them that their opinion is the reason that so many people hate pokemon and that they deserve to be slammed for said opinion is something entirely different. Disagree all you like, it's fine with me--but do so in a tactful and civilized manner. Beatdigga, telling Animelee "Just don't say it's the best TV show ever" was uncalled for, as was Comic Book Guy's immediate "Hell no" in response to Animelee stating his opinion.

[Ajax]

I say that only as a protest, because I am trying to prove a point -- I don't have to explain myself for liking Pokemon, and putting it on a higher level than any other cartoon, or show, for that matter, and neither do you have to explain yourself for liking Kenshin or Bebop more than Pokemon.

I don't mind the fact that you think Pokemon is not up to standard when compared to other shows, but the way you guys (especially Kirby) said it kind of made it sound like were stating a fact, rather than an opinion.

I'm not trying to argue here, just trying to come to an understanding.


Its not that I like Bebop and Kenshin more than Pokemon, I only used them to prove a point. (In my case) You can blame three years of Johto for making my opinion sound like a fact. :D But you know your right you don't have to explain yourself (actually you did on the first page) but when you put "greatest ever" and pokemon in the same sentence, I had to say something.

And for the record, Kirby and me are not on the same page. What I was trying to prove and what he was trying to say were completely different.

Dogsau:
It's one thing to disagree with someone, but to tell them that their opinion is the reason that so many people hate pokemon and that they deserve to be slammed for said opinion is something entirely different. Disagree all you like, it's fine with me--but when someone like Beatdigga tells Animelee "Just don't say it's the best TV show ever," then I get pissed I said, they should prepare to get slammed not they derserve it.
Just like you get pissed when people say "Just don't say it's the best TV show ever" I get somewhat pissed when they say its the greatest that was, is and ever will be. But know I understand were Animelee was coming from and he know understands were I was coming from. So its all good.

There are tactful ways of disagreeing with someone without being an ass about it:Hey! I can think about 10 people who are asses when disagreeing with people.

[Animelee]

Its not that I like Bebop and Kenshin more than Pokemon, I only used them to prove a point. (In my case) You can blame three years of Johto for making my opinion sound like a fact. :D But you know your right you don't have to explain yourself (actually you did on the first page) but when you put "greatest ever" and pokemon in the same sentence, I had to say something.

And for the record, Kirby and me are not on the same page. What I was trying to prove and what he was trying to say were completely different.

I see what you mean, but why do you get upset with my opinion of Pokemon being the greatest show ever? It's not like I'm hailing Hitler, or something. :confused:

[Youko Recca]

I'm just waiting for a Beyblade fan to join.

[Animelee]

I'm just waiting for a Beyblade fan to join.

You bring up a good point. A lot of us here will diss Beyblade for being such a blatant commercial, yet, I've seen a few people on this board who are fans.

Heh, what I just said is what people say to me about Pokemon.

I personally dislike Beyblade, but I won't really care if anyone says it's the best show ever, because I don't really care.

[Youko Recca]

You bring up a good point. A lot of us here will diss Beyblade for being such a blatant commercial, yet, I've seen a few people on this board who are fans.

Heh, what I just said is what people say to me about Pokemon.

I personally dislike Beyblade, but I won't really care if anyone says it's the best show ever, because I don't really care.

Yep,it's called freedom of speech and shouldn't be taken to the heart of others who don't care....though watching you all go back and forth is entertaining yet it's really pointless. :anime:

[Animelee]

Yep,it's called freedom of speech and shouldn't be taken to the heart of others who don't care....though watching you all go back and forth is entertaining yet it's really pointless. :anime:

I'm homeschooled, and I have no luck getting a weekend job at McDonalds or Burger King, so this is what keeps me entertained when I'm not playing/watching Pokemon or other shows. A.K.A., I have no life. :D

[Animelee]

I miss you BMG :(

http://64.191.32.50/~bulbagar/bmgf/index.php?s=

[Sailor Chibi Otaku]

I'm just waiting for a Beyblade fan to join.

"Trois, deux, un.. HYPER VITESSE!!!!!!!!!!"

I like Kai. I think he's cute. I watch Beyblade in French, but I SO wanna see it in English!! :D :anime:

[Youko Recca]

Kai is the only character in the show with any true depth IMO.

[Animelee]

Kai is the only character in the show with any true depth IMO.

Pretty much. Some of the other characters like Tyson do, but I'm not too sure about Max and Dizzy. I've only seen a few scenes from various episodes, so I don't know too much.

[Jave]

Something that bothers me about Pokemon is that the writers don't seem to take full advantage of what the show could achieve. It features a gigantic universe with tons of different characters yet the people that work on the show don't seem to notice. Instead, they use the same old formula and make the show insanely repetitive. Brock is still crazy over every girl, Team Rocket gets blasted off every episode, and Ash is still the same arrogant jerk he was from day 1.

I for one would like to see a good story flow, where characters grow up, instead of the same, repeated stuff.

And to answer some questions:

Is Pokemon the worst anime ever?
No.

Is Pokemon the best anime ever?
No.

Could Pokemon be better?
Yes, it could, for all the aforementioned reasons.


And don't get me even started on Beyblade, that show simply gets on my nerves... the design of the characters is awful, the stories are lame, and the characters are annoying. Not to mention the whole show is a commercial.

[A SAint]

Why do I love pokemon?

[Animelee]

Why do I love pokemon?
Because you're smart. :D

Something that bothers me about Pokemon is that the writers don't seem to take full advantage of what the show could achieve. It features a gigantic universe with tons of different characters yet the people that work on the show don't seem to notice. Instead, they use the same old formula and make the show insanely repetitive. Brock is still crazy over every girl, Team Rocket gets blasted off every episode, and Ash is still the same arrogant jerk he was from day 1.

I for one would like to see a good story flow, where characters grow up, instead of the same, repeated stuff.

And to answer some questions:

Is Pokemon the worst anime ever?
No.

Is Pokemon the best anime ever?
No.

Could Pokemon be better?
Yes, it could, for all the aforementioned reasons.


And don't get me even started on Beyblade, that show simply gets on my nerves... the design of the characters is awful, the stories are lame, and the characters are annoying. Not to mention the whole show is a commercial.

Yeah, Pokemon could be way better, but then it would just skyrocket in goodness, and all other shows would really pale in comparison.

[Duke]

Something that bothers me about Pokemon is that the writers don't seem to take full advantage of what the show could achieve. It features a gigantic universe with tons of different characters yet the people that work on the show don't seem to notice. Instead, they use the same old formula and make the show insanely repetitive. Brock is still crazy over every girl, Team Rocket gets blasted off every episode, and Ash is still the same arrogant jerk he was from day 1.

Ash has gotten a lot more mature over the course of the series, though it's very gradual. In the beginning he said he was gonna win every battle (remember how much he celebrated when he got 10 victories in a row?), and basically only had Pikachu use its electric attacks. Now Pikachu uses Agility, Quick Attack, Tackle, and eventually Iron Tail.

Nowadays, he only celebrates winning important matches, and even has a young padewan in Haruka/May.

[EscaflownePilot]

Something that bothers me about Pokemon is that the writers don't seem to take full advantage of what the show could achieve. It features a gigantic universe with tons of different characters yet the people that work on the show don't seem to notice. Instead, they use the same old formula and make the show insanely repetitive. Brock is still crazy over every girl, Team Rocket gets blasted off every episode, and Ash is still the same arrogant jerk he was from day 1.

I for one would like to see a good story flow, where characters grow up, instead of the same, repeated stuff.

And to answer some questions:

Is Pokemon the worst anime ever?
No.

Is Pokemon the best anime ever?
No.

Could Pokemon be better?
Yes, it could, for all the aforementioned reasons.
Actually, once Haruka and Masato join Satoshi, it seems like the amount of progress Satoshi has made in both being a Pokemon trainer and a more mature person becomes much more evident. The viewer starts to see many of the same traits that Satoshi showed early in the series appearing in both Masato and Haruka, and this really helps Satoshi stand out as a much more competent trainer, and it becomes very easy to appreciate the subtle way the creators were able to build Satoshi into the more mature person he is now.

Like Duke said, when compared to the Satoshi we knew early in the series, the Satoshi in AG really has come a long way, and I think that having the rookies Masato and Haruka by his side really bring that out to the viewer.

I'm homeschooled, and I have no luck getting a weekend job at McDonalds or Burger King, so this is what keeps me entertained when I'm not playing/watching Pokemon or other shows. A.K.A., I have no life. :DHeh... I'm a jobless homeschooler with no life outside of this, as well. Hopefully that will change if I'm able to get a job at a Gamestop near me... but it doesn't look like it.

[Jaguar]

So you like Johto more than Orange Islands?
Johto Journeys - Yes.
Johto League Champions - No.

[SNS]

Team Rocket gets blasted off every episode


It's tradition. Besides, it's not like the line takes up a lot of time (just a few seconds).

[MattThomasM2B]

I recently saw the old episode where Ash fought Brock for the pewter city gym badge. I couldn't believe it was the same show.

[Animelee]

I recently saw the old episode where Ash fought Brock for the pewter city gym badge. I couldn't believe it was the same show.

That's what I say every time I watch Advanced Generation. :D

[Bartman3010]

I watch Pokemon every weekend. I'm 17 years old, I dont buy a lot of Pokemon merchandise, but I say that Pokemon gets a gold star on the fore-head.

But since everyone put down all the points, and I'm weeks late and dont visit here much, I think its safe to say that Pokemon is pretty much on the same level as any other TV show/anime on the planet. Have you people seen the Simpsons lately? They're milking it worse now than Pokemon was.

I mean they have food, toys, comics, board games, video games, card games, (Yes, even a Pokemon/Magic like card game as well) underwear, T-shirts, shameful promotions, a movie in the works, mouse pads, mugs, lisence plates, condoms (Err...ah...you get the idea)

Dont be suprised if you see the Krusty the Clown Laxitives taking the place of Flinstones vitamins.

[EscaflownePilot]

He's got a point - why is a series like the Simpsons okay to like, yet if somebody spots a Pokemon fan they call it some stupid, blatant 22 minute tv commercial when other series like The Simpsons are just as commercialized?

Even if the said Pokemon hater doesn't like The Simpsons, they still wouldn't jump down your throat like they would with a Pokemon lover.

[Ajax]

He's got a point - why is a series like the Simpsons okay to like, yet if somebody spots a Pokemon fan they call it some stupid, blatant 22 minute tv commercial when other series like The Simpsons are just as commercialized?

Even if the said Pokemon hater doesn't like The Simpsons, they still wouldn't jump down your throat like they would with a Pokemon lover.

Simply because a lot of people are biased. It has been said that the Simpsons seasons 1-8 were golden, the show is the longest animated series ever, and IMO did a lot for television. In Pokemons case, people just seemed to hate it just because it was a popular fad, some thought it was the devil, and oatuks thought its was a childish anime which repersented everything wrong with anime.

I mean if you tell someone your a 17 year old who likes pokemon, they'll call you a loser whose never gotten laid. But if your a 17 year old who likes the Simpsons, your an alright person. Thats the way it is. It sucks but T.S.

[Gloria Harp]

Used to be a huge fan of Pokemon...not so much anymore...

Anyway, I only read through, like, half of these posts, but I'll give my two cents on the matter, anyways.

Well, Pokemon is repetitive and not very deep, but, in all honesty, it really isn't supposed to be. It's just supposed to be light-hearted, comedic fun and nothing really else.

I'd also WOULD NOT call it the worse anime ever. Because it isn't, in all honesty. At least there's some sort of cohesive plot (even if repetitive and predictable at times) and the characters aren't mind-numbing, one-dimensional jerks. If you want to see REALLY BAD animes watch Darkside Blues, Vampire Hunter D (the original one-haven't seen Bloodlust, but the original one is BAD, despite if it's a supposed "classic" or not), or Twilight of the Dark Master. Or Demon City Shinjuku. Or Tekken: The Motion Picture. Or Grappler Baki (actually that was SO bad, that is ended up being hilarious...I love watching it now just to make fun of it! LOL!). There are more really bad animes, but I don't even recall their names anymore...

The real reason why I'm no longer a Pokemon fan is because, well, Brock left and Tracey came in and I just didn't feel the chemistry between the team any longer like I felt when Ash, Brock, and Misty were together in the first season with the Indigo...er...I forget what it's called...ah, well... Tracey just did not fit right with Misty and Ash like Brock did. Of course, the writers realized their mistake with this whole Tracey thing and opted to put Brock back after the short Orange League and get rid of the bland Tracey, but it was already too late. Even when Brock, Misty, and Ash left for the Johto league, something was missing that had defined the strong bond and great chemistry all three characters had together; something had been lost because of the absence of Brock and his replacement by Tracey. And the show no longer worked for me. It really is kind of sad, now that I think about it...

But I always did love Team Rocket and Ash, Misty, and Brock; I always thought they were fun characters to watch, even if it did get repetitive at times, and most of the eppies were filler. But you really have to think of it this way: we all know that the Coyote, no matter how many cartoons we see of him, is going to always become a victim of his own traps and is never REALLY going to catch the Road Runner, but is it not still hilarious to watch him try, anyways?

[Antiyonder]

The genre for those cartoons are just humor, so viewers don't expect plot developments in them.

Pokemon is humor, but also an adventure. Adventure type shows are the ones that usually develop overtime.

For those who saying that the show is light hearted, a show can have a change in the status quo, and still be light hearted. Example:

The show has enough villains in it, that the writers could have Ash and Company face a different enemy each episode.

[Dudley]

Though I don't hate Pokemon, the creatures are too cute to be called monsters (which is why I prefer Digimon and Yu-Gi-Oh!). Plus the jokes are annoying and repititive. And sometimes it can get too childish and stupid.

I prefer watching it in Japnaese because:
a) to help me practice my Japanese.
b) to see new episodes before they come to the USA.
c) the characters are not as gay. (There, I finally said it).

[Sailor Chibi Otaku]

What's wrong with homosexual characters (and people)? NOTHING. Why do people use the term "gay" to mean stupid? The person who thought that up should die a painful death.

[Animelee]

*Sigh* Do people still believe that Pokemopolis.com bull?

[Bartman3010]

I find Yu-Gi-Oh hard to be serious simply because apparently the whole world is on the borderline due to a card game. Not to mention every week is the same battle with the same people. The only reason its dramatic is because if Yugi fails to play cards, then either the world will implode or a crate of fish lands on one of his friends.

What would happen if the world will be taken over and has nothing to do with the card game? What if there was a giant drill heading for the earth's core that would cause volcanic eruptions to take place? Its Aquaman all over again!

[Duke]

What would happen if the world will be taken over and has nothing to do with the card game? What if there was a giant drill heading for the earth's core that would cause volcanic eruptions to take place? Its Aquaman all over again!

Yugi would use the power of the Dark Magician, in combination with the Duel Disk, and stop the giant drill. Remember, The Duel disks are super-realistic.

[Animation Otaku]

The taking over the world ******** is mainly dub inserted.

[MattThomasM2B]

*Sigh* Do people still believe that Pokemopolis.com bull?

<3 Pokemopolis.com

The only place for older pokemon fans to hang.

EDIT: The exact url is http://run.to/pokemopolis

[Ajax]

Not to mention every week is the same battle with the same people.

Gee, that sounds like another familar show we've been talking about cough:Pokemon:cough :p

Just messing with you, but I believe Animation Otaku is right, the whole "taking the world over" is mostly dub inserted.

[Demon_Child]

<3 Pokemopolis.com

The only place for older pokemon fans to hang.

Indeed. Great site that it is.

[PowerZord]

People bash Pokémon for being the same thing, but Yugioh is the same even in the original.


Yugi Morphs Into Yami
Yami and the dude fight and the dude threatens to kill or hurt yugi
Yugi gets scared
Dude gets scared.
Yami wins and Kills his opponent.

Do not get me wrong I LIKE YUGIOH I'm just stating my point of view by defending Pokemon

[Youko Recca]

This hasn't calmed yet,who still full out despises Pocket Monsters?

[Animelee]

<3 Pokemopolis.com

The only place for older pokemon fans to hang.

EDIT: The exact url is http://run.to/pokemopolis

I'm 17, so I don't know if I'd be considered an older fan, but, being older doesn't mean I'm gonna like all that garbage. :p I still prefer G-rated stuff.

[Animation Otaku]

Best. WEBSITE. EVER!

NOT

[Animelee]

Best. WEBSITE. EVER!

NOT

:D

I see there's a little Matt Wilson in you. ;)

[Youko Recca]

:D

I see there's a little Matt Wilson in you. ;)

That there is

[Beat]

There's a little Matt Wilson in all of us. ;)

[Antiyonder]

I like the show, I'm just saying it could be improved.

I even bought the Mewtwo movies on DVD.

[Youko Recca]

That's not saying much,every show could be improved.

[Animation Otaku]

:D

I see there's a little Matt Wilson in you. ;)

I'm flattered. :o

[R Chocolate]

http://64.191.32.50/~bulbagar/bmgf/index.php?s=

Thank you for posting this link! I used to love visiting the Bulbagarden.com website. I'm very glad the messageboard is back up again.

[Animelee]

I'm flattered. :o

I wasn't insulting you, hehe. It's just that a few weeks ago, in the DC Animated Series forum, Matt Wilson had a similar post, where he said:

"Best. Episode. Ever.

NOT!"

Thank you for posting this link! I used to love visiting the Bulbagarden.com website. I'm very glad the messageboard is back up again.

No prob! Seeing BulbaGarden up again was like a rush of nostalgia for me. :D But, me, I'm now a PokeMasters.net kind of guy.

[Alex Toon]

I'm just waiting for a Beyblade fan to join.


I'm a Beyblade fan, also. You know, it's irony. People say Yu-gi-oh is more fun than Beyblade because you control what the monsters do. But that's it. They dont do anything except lie there. Not to be offensive to YGO fans or anything.

[Animation Otaku]

I wasn't insulting you, hehe. It's just that a few weeks ago, in the DC Animated Series forum, Matt Wilson had a similar post, where he said:

"Best. Episode. Ever.

NOT!"


I never said you were. I knew what you were talking about, that's why I sad I was flattered. :D

[candy17]

The real reason why I'm no longer a Pokemon fan is because, well, Brock left and Tracey came in and I just didn't feel the chemistry between the team any longer like I felt when Ash, Brock, and Misty were together in the first season with the Indigo...er...I forget what it's called...ah, well... Tracey just did not fit right with Misty and Ash like Brock did. Of course, the writers realized their mistake with this whole Tracey thing and opted to put Brock back after the short Orange League and get rid of the bland Tracey, but it was already too late. Even when Brock, Misty, and Ash left for the Johto league, something was missing that had defined the strong bond and great chemistry all three characters had together; something had been lost because of the absence of Brock and his replacement by Tracey. And the show no longer worked for me. It really is kind of sad, now that I think about it...
That's the same reason why I don't watch the newer episodes. I do watch the reruns on CN sometimes, but if it doesn't have Brock on it, I'm gone.

[Duke]

While AG may not have the same exact chemistry as Kanto (Obviously, as there are two new characters and Ash is more mature), it's still pretty good. Ash seems to not only be Harka's mentor, but Masato's as well. And Brock seems to be just as goofy, but in a more comedic way than "OMG, a pretty girl!"

[Animation Otaku]

That's the same reason why I don't watch the newer episodes. I do watch the reruns on CN sometimes, but if it doesn't have Brock on it, I'm gone.
Takeshi/Brock returns in a couple episodes

[Duke]

Takeshi/Brock returns in a couple episodes

More like this Saturday.

[Animation Otaku]

More like this Saturday.

Really? I thought it was the Saturday after this one.

[Duke]

Nope. This Saturday is like Episode #3 & #5 in Kanto in one!

[Jaguar]

There's a little Matt Wilson in all of us. ;)
Well, I think mine just self-destructed...poor little guy...