C&C - Big O Season 2 - "The Show Must Go On" [11/02]

[The Landstander]

Did anyone notice they were supposed to air this last week?

I mean, it was scheduled and everything, then it wasn't on.

Oh well, here it is now.

[DianaGohan]

*Plug*

And after you do, go to my "The Show Must Go On... But Should It" thread and tell whether or not you feel there should be a third season of Big O. Anyway, this episode should be good. I wasn't waiting 2 weeks for crap.

[Mr. Toto]

...Is this some sort of bad joke? Stripes again?!

[Artimus Gigan]

Stripes Is Playing Again?>!??!?!?

[silverwings]

*stares in disbelief*

WT---

oh..

evil cn....evil...

[Delia]

Theyre So Evil! Bad Joke!!

[sandwichman]

NOW it's the Show Must Go On. CN, you so wacky. You could enter a wacky contest and have a result.

[Colodie]

Stripes Is Playing Again?>!??!?!?
LOL! I don't post here, but I loved that. :Plays stripes opening:.., cut to card "We just had to do it" :Starts playing Ep 26:

[Roger Smith]

Im So Piss Off...

[Mr. Toto]

I guess it was a mistake, because I don't remember this in Stripes.

[Dogasu]

I LOVED WS's opening joke. LOVED IT LOVED IT LOVED IT. Loved it as much as a man can love a programming division of a basic cable network...

[sandwichman]

Big O got shaved. Hoo hoo hee hee ha ha. But now he just looks... wrong.

[J.E.Smith]

That had me going for a moment...made me stop the recording for a moment until they showed the card a minute later.(I did have a feeling that they'd stop and show the finale though)

[okendri]

That was a cruel joke on CN's part. Also did I hear Roger say the People's Rage?

[lostrune]

PSYCH!!! That was so funny! Trick or treat! :D

[Bystander]

Well that was scary, they actually had me worried for a second.

[Bystander]

What the, Dorothy moving on her own?

[Mr. Toto]

This is one of those things that I wish I hadn't had to do something, I want to see that card.

[Delia]

Robots get even!

[Bystander]

Well there it is the Rogerrrrrrrr! scene makes you wonder why we didn't notice she didn't have the CD on in the comercial.

[Delia]

Norman rules, hehe. I want a really cool butler!

[Tienshin]

Beck hates ME?!?! http://forums.toonzone.net/images/smilies/frown.gif

[SSJPabs]

I wonder if something similar to what Dastun just did is similar Roger left the military police? Or at least the original Roger... is it related somehow? After all in Act: 14 he was one of the officers.

EDIT: Angel looks really cute in this episode.

[Beat]

This is worse than EVA. This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. The Angel bit anyway.

[okendri]

Beck hates ME?!?! http://forums.toonzone.net/images/smilies/frown.gif
Nah he is an equal oppurtunity hater. :D

[Master Moron]

God, this episode is boring, just like the rest of the series.

[Delia]

Now you too can own your own Roger Smith and Dorothy....

[SSJPabs]

Well Big-O is feeding him Angel's memories while he's hallucinating from oxygen deprivation.

Big finish now! Go Big-O!

[Delia]

HAHAHAHA!!


"You're such a louse, Roger Smith."

[SSJPabs]

That's one HELL Of a Big-O! But Alex's time is almost up if you'll notice.

[Cyber E.]

Oh, now we are going G-Gundam on their asses?

So that is how they wanna play. I see.

[Bystander]

How in the world could Big O have all that and neither Norman or Roger know it.

[Delia]

think of it this way.... how many viewers can they gain with such a big mistake a buildup to this episode?

[Delia]

I am sooo confused....

[sandwichman]

Big O's big cannon looked really phallic. That is all.

[Delia]

Okay what the heck is this?

[Menion420]

ending is WTF?!

[SSJPabs]

We have come to terms.

Tch, no you haven't. Season 3 come to me!

[Cyber E.]

?!

That is all.

[Bystander]

Are you all just as confused as me as to what just happened?

[Master Moron]

God, that was dumb, just like the rest of this series.

[Beat]

It was all one big TV show. Angel was the producer, Roger the star, and Dorthy the sidekick/romantic intrest.

[lostrune]

So... Angel is the show's director? :D

Edit: Look at the clock time of this post... then compare to those of the posts just before it. ;)

[Duke]

They scared me a bit with the Stripes playing.

WTF! Big Ear's a robot/Android!?

Wow. Big Fau has an AT Field. Who knew?

I notice nobody's really rooting for anyone, unlike other shows where the big battle is being shown on TV.

So THAT'S why Big O has a purple head in the promos.

Damn, Roger's getting his ass kicked.

Big Fau must be REALLY powerful.

Finally, Dastun stands up to Rosewater, albiet indirectly.

THIS is why Dorothy's right for Roger. :D :anime:

Isn't that the same building Beck had the robot Roger control Big O to plunge into?

Yay! They saved Dastun!

WTF is happening to Angel? and Rosewater?

Yay! Underwater battle! Sweet!

I guess this proves Big Fau is the UnderWater Big.

Confirmation! So Alan IS a cyborg!

Big O's even more like Eva now. :D

Whenever I see the book, I'm reminded of the movie Metropolis, which is kinda similar to Big O, somewhat.

She really IS a fallen angel!? WTF!?

STOP MESSING WITH MY MIND BIG O!

Whoa, what are these visions? It looks like a Super Big.

So...Angel's pulling the strings now? Or, what?

I love how Dorothy brought Roger back, complete with commentary afterwards.

I love Big O rising out of the sea with that music. I just love it.

He's got rocket arms!?

LOL Love the crack at Angel from Dorothy!

Ya think Big O has enough firepower?

Geez, Big O does more damage than a Gundam!

Big Venus!? Is that Angel's Big!?

Dude, did she just kill Rosewater like that?

That speech was cheesy, Roger Smith.

Buh...Buh...I said it once, I'll say it again. STOP MESSING WITH MY MIND! MUST HAVE SEASON THREE!

[Delia]

*sigh* What. Just. Happened?

[RedBoot]

Okay, I didn't understand a damn bit of that.

Still very cool, though.

[The_Dominion]

Awww.... I was hoping for more. It was all very confusing, but atleast it was entertaining too. I still hope there is a third season.

[silverwings]

Okay... so confused... http://forums.toonzone.net/images/smilies/confused.gif Maybe in the morning, it'll make sense...

Bring on season 3!

[Behonkiss]

Hello, this is Behonkiss's conscience. As Behonkiss's current feelings are unsuitable for this all audiences forum, I must simplify them in one friendly sentence:

Not only does Behonkiss's head hurt, but if there is no season 3, he's got a new Worst Anime Ending.

Thank you for your time. Your feedback is important to Behonkiss's social stature.

[Infinity Blade]

mY bRaIn JuSt BlEw uP. ;_;

But dammit, it feels great. @_@

...

It's going to take me some time to collect my thoughts here. @_@

[SSJPabs]

Okay, the Real Angel(tm) determined whether there would be a total erasure of Paradigm City... Roger reminded her that memories don't make the person and sent his Big to merge with her "Big" the method by which she erased stuff, while the Real Roger(tm) convinced Angel that her interferance wasn't needed. Since Angel apparently has power over reality she chose to be.... Roger's buddy and start over from ACT 1.

[raykremer]

That answered nothing! Nothing! And I loved it!

So, best guesses anyone? The people of Paradigm city were characters in an anime, but self-aware? In the end, all they discovered was the fourth wall? And Angel was the show's writer, but she got metaphorically trapped inside the show? And they make their animation using a holodeck?

[Cyber E.]

*sigh* What. Just. Happened?

CN co-produced 13 episodes of a show that ended too early, only to end it on a bigger cliffhanger and making the fans more confused so they can make a third season and make everyone happy.

[The_Dominion]

I would also like to add that the book had the name "Angel Rosewater" as the author.

[hardway35]

I hope am not the only one but, after watching that I have no idea what the hell just happened.

[MJC]

WTF?!

[Pimmelmann]

That may have been terrible, unless someone can explain it to me right now, in which case it might be good. I know there were at least two contradictory images in that episode and one in the end I didn't understand at all, even divorced from context.

I won't pretend I got it, so if any of you are quite sure you did or can point me at an interview with creators or something that will help me along, I'd be very grateful. Thanks.

[Mr. Toto]

....I understood that as much as I understood End Of Eva without watching the series at all.

[mactbone]

Why do I feel this was a cop out?

I also need to check some of the earlier eps and double check if the spotlights are so easily visible in them. It's just so freakin' obvious in this ep.

[Demon_Child]

This was a wonderful ending(?); one of the the best I've ever seen. I loved the part where Dorothy woke up Roger, it was really funny and cute. And Alan finally got what he deserved. Everyone is starting over in Paradigm city. Big O is over. We have finally come to terms. A infinte +'s

I only have four words to say: BIG O SEASON THREE!!!!

[MJC]

That answered nothing! Nothing! And I loved it!

So, best guesses anyone? The people of Paradigm city were characters in an anime, but self-aware? In the end, all they discovered was the fourth wall?

I dunno...I don't think they would've needed the spotlights and so forth. I'm thinking it was a Truman Show type thing.

[Steiner]

Umm....ok, what's going on? I don't know why so many people said that the ending pretty much left no chance for a third season. If anything, they should make season 3 just to explain what the hell happened.

[Killtacular]

What's so hard to explain?

Big O 2 = Matrix Reloaded.

Only Sunrise thought of it first. Same exact plot revelation.

[Artemis]

Waiter, there's a Lain in my Big O. And I said EASY on the EVA!

[Rei]

I really wish I could say I understood that. Unfortunately I have no friggin idea.

[Andrew]

*twitch*

...

*twitch, twitch*

...

*explodes*

[Killtacular]

Perhaps people should use their brains. Then they would understand what happened.

[Teek]

Wow, that was messed. I would indeed like a Season 3. Looks like Paradigm is located in some type of Holodeck, heh. Was this world created by Angel because she was the sole survivor of the event from 40 years before? She created it but then accidently indeeded up losing her memory? Wacked out stuff. What is outside of this computer generated area? So many questions.

[G1Ravage]

Wow. That didn't seem like a cliffhanger to me. I bet if I watch all 26 episodes in a row, it'll all make more sense.

[Umino]

Truman show or TV Show?

I'm staying with TV show...

[Delia]

oh well... I cant wait for the next episode!

[Pimmelmann]

What's so hard to explain?

Big O 2 = Matrix Reloaded.

Only Sunrise thought of it first. Same exact plot revelation.

Didn't see it. Could you...talk better?

[William C. Maune]

Perhaps people should use their brains. Then they would understand what happened.

Perhaps it's not as simply as you think.

[kaine23]

What a great episode!






What happened in the last 26 minutes?

[Beat]

If this isn't a season 3 pitch, nothing is.

[Infinity Blade]

What's so hard to explain?

Big O 2 = Matrix Reloaded.

Only Sunrise thought of it first. Same exact plot revelation.

I guess that could work, except we don't know the WHY to things, unlike with Matrix Reloaded. ^^;;

[Lord Ashram]

I somewhat understood this episode... But it's so hard to explain it. And I don't know whether to think of it all as a TV show, or something completely different.

[DarkPoet89]

We have come to terms? No we have not come to terms! I'm horribly confused about what just happened! Augh!

Well, when they started showing Stripes, I almost had a heart-attack. But then that card came up saying, "We had to do it" and I began to laugh hysterically. Good joke, CN. ;)

Anyway, even though I didn't really understand anything that happened, I loved this episode (I have no idea how that's possible though). I will watch it again because I think there was a lot of symbolism that I overlooked.

Grade: A

[Cyporiean]

It makes perfect sense to me..

Life is nothing more than an Endless Loop... The Big-O is stuck in repeats..

[Pimmelmann]

I somewhat understood this episode... But it's so hard to explain it. And I don't know whether to think of it all as a TV show, or something completely different.

Please feel free to try; I, for one, won't judge you.

[William C. Maune]

It makes perfect sense to me..

Life is nothing more than an Endless Loop... The Big-O is stuck in repeats..

It isn't an endless repeat though because they showed Dorothy and Angel together at this new "beginning."

[SSJPabs]

I think Season 3 could deal with an attempt to end the loop without un-making existence. Or reveal a greater mastermind beind all this... where's my tinfoil helmet?

[Perfect Cell]

Umm....ok, what's going on? I don't know why so many people said that the ending pretty much left no chance for a third season. If anything, they should make season 3 just to explain what the hell happened.


Or just confuse us even more! Great ending but confusing none the less... :eek:

[sandwichman]

Perhaps people should use their brains. Then they would understand what happened. Perhaps if my friend who was watching Big O, and had never seen Big O hadn't called, which required me to go into the hallway to answer the phone, and he asked me to explain everything to him, then I would have seen 10 minutes that were probably important. I feel run-onny.

[Beat]

No. I want the answers solved first, before an unecessary Y7 Outlaw Star is made.

[SSJPabs]

I not quite sure what happened, but before Cartoon Network orders a third season of Big O, make 'em coproduce a second season of Outlaw Star.
I couldn't disagree more, Outlaw Star seems so generic although you could argue Big-O is also a generic "wtf" anime. But I just have more fun watching it.

[Teek]

I'd like to see an explanation of the Big's, expecially how Big Venus does play into the matter and if it was around 40 years before as well. So is everyone just a generation of this big holodeck thing? Or is everyone actually real they just happen to exist in some weird ass computer room that can wipe people to and from existance? And somehow Angel retained some memory of the prior events and is able to retain control over the runnings of it?

Perhaps some third party created the Paradigm City room in an attempt to help regain the memories? But then it seems that the elder Rosewater was the one responsible for wiping out the memories before(?)...

[kaine23]

Wonder how many people at AS are just as confused by what they aired?

[Morac]

About the only part I understood of this episode was that Angel pushed "The Reset Button" (© ST:Voyager) and made Roger a negotiator again because the other (real?) Roger told her to. Apparently Angel was the only real person there. Other than that I have no idea what's going on.

Is this world supposed to be one big simulation? Big O Sims?


Edit - Oh and when they started showing Stripes I nearly shut the TV off in disgust and was dreading seeing the backlash here. In hindsite though it was a good joke. Evil, but good.

[Nate Palm]

This is about all I've come to expect from most anime series. All setup and no execution. Hello Lain Hello EVA. Did like the couple of lines between Roger and Dorthy though. I doubt there'll be a third season.

[Juu-kuchi]

Well it's nice to see a show that had no hope of a conclusion have one finally, but the ending was just weird... But here's what I can surmise out of it...

Angel had the choice what to do with Paradigm and such, and out of despair she began to erase everything because she's just a memory. Roger however convinces Angel that memories don't matter, and all that. Because of such, Angel makes the decision and just restarts it all perhaps, without the pain of memories and all that.

I'd like a season 3, thank you please.

[BigMal27]

I'm up for a third season, but I want the following: All the main characters come to the mansion, sit down to dinner, and discuss what the (bleep) happened in the past 26 episodes.

Anyway, just like my favorite webcomics, Act 26 was twisty. Wouldn't change it, despite making things more confusing.

[Kinel Ozoa]

MESSAGE TO WILLIAMS STREET: About the opening trick? Funny. As. Hell.

Next: *blinks* *in an unresponsive state* For the next 21 minutes that had warped my fragil little mind. But I came up with a thoery out of it though.

Elder Rosewater might have been a fail safe incase the director herself lost her memories. But don't take that to heart. Out of the whole show that's the only thing I put together so far. Hopfully the rest will follow.

Season 3 please?

[Spike Mcdougal]

Waiter, there's a Lain in my Big O. And I said EASY on the EVA!

Clever

While I let the majority of you guys flail about all confused i'll kick in my two cents.

The episode was great and the song that played as Roger was talking to Angel was awesome. I hope a soundtrack with the new stuff (And there was a bit) gets released

[Discloner]

Perhaps people should use their brains. Then they would understand what happened.

Pardon us for not being as smart as you Wilson...why don't you tell us cause god knows we're that much inferior to you. :rolleyes:

[Youko Recca]

Nice ending,don't know why people would even consider this one as a "bad" ending.

[Killtacular]

SPOILERS!

Matrix Reloaded stuck a bunch of useless philosophy about purpose into a short story about a world trapped in a computer system to make it longer, including a seven minute waste of time known as the tribal dance. The revelation was that Neo was a Neo in a long line of Neos that caused a repetitive loop in the system (only with each reboot of the system they fixed things). Instead of saving the world, Neo allowed the system to crash again in order to save Trinity.

The Big O 2 stuck a bunch of useless philosophy about memories into a short series about a city trapped in a TV show to make it longer, including a 22 minute waste of time known as the comedy filler episode with Beck. The revelation was that Roger was a Negotiator in a long line of Negotiators that allowed a repetitive loop in the TV show (only with each retake of the TV show, changes would be made) that erases everyone's memories. Instead of saving the world, Roger allows everyone's memories to be erased again in order to save Angel.

[Sigma]

Im pretty confused, but it was a great episode. I hope we don't have to wait long for a third season.

[SSJPabs]

Perhaps its a bit like the situation in Loop (part 3 of the story begun in Ring).

[kaine23]

Is the ending to the manga this confusing too?

[tenken]

awesome ep! I ACTUALLY UNDERSTOOD IT!!! YAAY!
oh, and i had a heart attack when they showed stripes. after being teleported to the hospital, OKed by the docs, and coming back, i thought it was funny. :p
anyway, here's my interpretation.
PARADIGM IS A BIG LOOP.
The thing seems to be a giant TV show, with Angel (the real Angel Rosewater) as the director. She wrote the entire story, and everything that happens in Paradigm (hypothetically) goes according to her plan.
There was an Angel in this story because she was the resetter of the city and also, if you directed a film, wouldn't you think it would be cool to have someone who's exactly you in it?
All right, if anyone still has questions, I'll try to answer them. If I can't, I'll just cower under my bed and yell at curtains.
Now for some actually comments.
It seems that the Bigs require a "payment in blood" to activate the own potential, if you know what I mean. Only by absorbing their pilot can that happen, and that's why Dorothy was able to make O all super powerful.
I think Venus could have looked a lot cooler.
I don't think there's going to be a third season, and if there is, it's going to be difficult to make since Paradigm is just supposed to be doing the same thing over and over again - it's just how they do it that's entertaining.
And I feel Dastun should get more credit. He's inevitably dead, and stood up for the cause he felt was right. When I saw his men back him, my first thought was that his speech back in Eyewitness actually did some good.
Well later.

EDIT: Well, actually, Dastun might not be dead, since that depends on what Venus did. If it vaporized everything, yup - dead. If it just erase memories, not so.

[mactbone]

The reason I feel so gipped is that not only did they not explain anything, they basically said - whoops, the first 26 eps you saw have just been erased, they don't mean anything anymore.

[Beat]

So in the end life is a big loop. Thanks for nothing.

That moment of depression brought to you by Matt Wilson. Destroying opitmism on the Cartoon Network since 1997.

[SSJPabs]

Bah, I hate self-insertion fanfics...

Ah well, it's kind of like those episodes of Hercules where the show is about the making of the show. Interesting...

[ToonamiFanatic]

that was interesting. kinda confused
I really want a season 3 now. when they first started playing stripes bout had a heart attack stopped the vcr untill the card came up saying we had to do it.

[William C. Maune]

Did Angel actually finish erasing everything or did she instead restore Paradigm City. From what was said in the new "beginning" we don't actually know if anyone's memories were erased again. If she was the director, she likely has the ability to rebuild as well as erase.

What I think would be interesting is if instead of The Matrix, this is actually more similar to Mighty Max. In the last episode of Mighty Max everything was reverted back to episode 1. The last scene was the beginning of episode 1 again. However, Mighty Max*, and at least his friends, had all the memories of what they had been through during the series. Now they had a chance to redo it all over again, but in theory they knew what to do differently this time. I think this may be a more appropriate comparison.

Seeing as how this series isn't available on TV, video or DVD, hopefully this won't be a spoiler.

[tenken]

Did Angel actually finish erasing everything or did she instead restore Paradigm City. From what was said in the new "beginning" we don't actually know if anyone's memories were erased again. If she was the director, she likely has the ability to rebuild as well as erase.

What I think would be interesting is if instead of The Matrix, this is actually more similar to Mighty Max. In the last episode of Mighty Max everything was reverted back to episode 1. The last scene was the beginning of episode 1 again. However, Mighty Max*, and at least his friends, had all the memories of what they had been through during the series. Now they had a chance to redo it all over again, but in theory they knew what to do differently this time. I think this may be a more appropriate comparison.

Seeing as how this series isn't available on TV, video or DVD, hopefully this won't be a spoiler.
I don't know about the might max stuff, but it's possible that she didn't destroy anything at all, just erased everyone's memories. how that causes everybody to not see anything i don't understand, but i guess it's like how mai couldn't see people when marik erased her memory in yu-gi-oh. i think this mainly because all of the buildings were scarred and not brand new.

[DScythe]

Create a season just as confusing as the first two, and that requires a 4th season that will serve the exact same purpose as the first 3.

Off you go CN.

[Duke]

including a 22 minute waste of time known as the comedy filler episode with Beck.

Except Big O's "waste of time" was actually fun to watch and enjoyable.

Oh, and I like the Mighty Max theory.

[Razor]

... now that I've had time to think about it...

The world Paradigm was created in is in and of itself an artificial construct. A construct created by Angel. Each time, in the world she'd created, flaws would become apparent. The denizens of the world would realize what was happening.

So the Megadei would arrive, and destroy it. That's what Big Fau tried to do. It had no intention of serving Rosewater. It wanted to merge with him to create a means to its end. To complete its mission. Big O tried to do that with Roger, but he asked it not to. He wanted to preserve the world, not help to destroy it. And Big O helped him to do that.

Each time Angel would recreate the world, she'd erase her own memories and enter it. Each time she'd live out the cycle. She would be the one true memory, because she was the only one who existed before the creation.

... or was she?

Perhaps Roger also existed outside of Paradigm. Perhaps he is also from before 40 years ago. But instead of entering the world each time, he'd place an android of himself into the world Angel created. Each time, he'd fail. But this time, he decided to enter the world. Become a part of Paradigm. Using Alex Rosewater, he placed memories of the true world in the children. We know he's not one of the Tomatoes, because the shadows fell away to reveal a young Alex Rosewater. Anyway, after some time, he'd erased his own memories, devoid of any recollection of what he'd come to Paradigm to do. But memories would return in flickers... memories of the Tomatoes he helped to create... the memories of the androids he'd sent...

And this time, Roger managed to do it. He managed to stop Angel from destroying the world. He managed to preserve it. And Angel accepted it, because, no matter what flaws existed in the world that they tried to create, it was better than the endless cycle of recreation.

Dorothy? Norman? Big Ear? Androids placed in Paradigm to help guide Roger.

Big O? A megadeus that made the choice not to destroy, but to preserve...

[Beat]

Life in that case, will imitate art.

[Mak]

heh, the ending reminded me of the end of Mighty Max as well. If the world keeps looping, then maybe each time something gets a little better about, like Angel being there at the start.

I guess it seems like the show ends with that episode, but I wouldn't mind seeing a 3rd season if that's possible. And like the end of Might Max, the characters might be aware of what happend and going down a different path.

[AlphaPrime]

awesome ep! I ACTUALLY UNDERSTOOD IT!!! YAAY!
oh, and i had a heart attack when they showed stripes. after being teleported to the hospital, OKed by the docs, and coming back, i thought it was funny. :p
anyway, here's my interpretation.
PARADIGM IS A BIG LOOP.
The thing seems to be a giant TV show, with Angel (the real Angel Rosewater) as the director. She wrote the entire story, and everything that happens in Paradigm (hypothetically) goes according to her plan.
There was an Angel in this story because she was the resetter of the city and also, if you directed a film, wouldn't you think it would be cool to have someone who's exactly you in it?
All right, if anyone still has questions, I'll try to answer them. If I can't, I'll just cower under my bed and yell at curtains.
Now for some actually comments.
It seems that the Bigs require a "payment in blood" to activate the own potential, if you know what I mean. Only by absorbing their pilot can that happen, and that's why Dorothy was able to make O all super powerful.
I think Venus could have looked a lot cooler.
I don't think there's going to be a third season, and if there is, it's going to be difficult to make since Paradigm is just supposed to be doing the same thing over and over again - it's just how they do it that's entertaining.
And I feel Dastun should get more credit. He's inevitably dead, and stood up for the cause he felt was right. When I saw his men back him, my first thought was that his speech back in Eyewitness actually did some good.
Well later.

Thats what i thought as well, made sense to me. A great ending if its the ending*come one season 3* MUCH better ending then *cough*CB*cough*

[Master Moron]

Perhaps people should use their brains. Then they would understand what happened.

Perhaps I don't really give a damn.

[Pimmelmann]

Someone tell me this: If I read the manga, will all this make more sense to me?

[shoujoaifan]

I've read about the end ahead of time, since I heard it was going to be a depressing cop-out without much payoff, and heard the ending restarted the cycle of 40 years, how those are new Dorthy's and Angel's becuase they look different, blah blah, but I enjoyed and while it may be wrong, in my own opinion I think they got through to Angel in the end and picked up from where they left off, with Roger being the Negiotator (bad spelling, I know) to finally get through to the Angel of that cycle of 40 yrs who was also forced to play a role of being a director and erasing everything, but now they are lving out their lives instead of being deleted or recycled or whatever into the new versions of the next cycle. I think the animation of the girls at the end was just a fuke since they were finishing up the end and were in a hurry.

Still confused about the whole digital thing and how they were supossedly using cloning and using the stage that was all Truman-like to create a new race every 40 yrs, but then this digital thing. It seemed that they went with one thing, the amnesia, then went with another, the stage, and another, the digital/VR/Whatever. I guess the stage was symbolism or something.

I also read that supposedly the book may control the universe like the books used by some aliens in some book series.

Have I just confused myself and everyone else just as much, if not more, than the show? :p

BTW, I liked the beginning part with ep. 20 Stripes playing again :cool: I'm glad that I resisted the urge to stop recording, becuase I had a feeling that WS wouldn't do that again, the 1st time was an accident, ANOTHER time would just be stupid.

[William C. Maune]

When Alex Rosewater's back became "wired," the lines each set of connections made was similar to the pattern on Angel's back. Plus, when this wiring took place, Angel's scars glowed. I wonder if Angel was possibly a Big pilot who ended up being wired to her Big at some point.

[tenken]

When Alex Rosewater's back became "wired," the lines each set of connections made was similar to the pattern on Angel's back. Plus, when this wiring took place, Angel's scars glowed. I wonder if Angel was possibly a Big pilot who ended up being wired to her Big at some point.
She IS a Big pilot. Venus' pilot. Maybe every time she activates Venus, that's what happens.

[Teek]

Wow Razor, cool theory. I have this hope that Roger is real and Dorothy is real. Having them be constructs or just data in a world Angel creates makes the characters seem hollow to me. As for Roger's not apparently aging... well if Angel doesn't age I could see the real Roger not aging either in some way.

[Wounded_Dragon]

Meh...methinks you're all taking it too literally.

A possible interpretation:

Big O is a story. The 'loop' that everyone obsesses over? That's because the story only lasts so long. Every time someone else reads the story, the 'loop' re-occurs, as the story restarts for each individual reader.

The television studio and stage is just a metaphor for a viewer/reader's mind.

Why can't anyone remember past 40 years? Because ficitional characters rarely remember more than when the story starts, unless required. Hence the phenomenon of memories that pop-up sporadically.

The factory that made all those Rogers? Again, a metaphor. He has to be mass producer for every consumer/viewer/reader.

Why Dorothy can revive herself? Because Dorothy the idea is more powerful that Dorothy's circumstances.

My theory is that every single character is an idea from the story. Gordon Rosewater asked one other idea to try and negotiate a different fate. The idea of Gordon Rosewater hoped the other ideas could play different roles. So Roger the Negotiator tried to negotiate for a different story.

Angel's not from the story, nor is she a reader. She's a muse. A muse that decides to finally be a character.

Meh...I'll figure this out eventually.

[angelynx_prime]

HAHAHAHA!!


"You're such a louse, Roger Smith."

LOL, loved hearing that again, and Roger's reply was perfect.
:)

[Teek]

Here's another thought to bounce off you guys that I'm not sure what to do with, last episode Alex mentioned that he would wipe everyone's memories out again and start over. Does that mean he knew the nature of the city itself? Or was the idea his father had something to do with the wiping out the memories before just a construct of Angel's?

[Beat]

The theories continue. Now we ask for Season 3!

[Kinel Ozoa]

Of all things said and done in this episode...

Roger: Dorothy!!! You could have come up with a genteler way to bring me around you know!!! ....like mouth to mouth or something?

This in my opinion WAS the best! However with the little flashback before all of that I wonder if I need to start calling him R Roger Smith?

[William C. Maune]

However with the little flashback before all of that I wonder if I need to start calling him R Roger Smith?

There may have been robot Rogers, but I don't think this one was since he bled in multiple episodes.

[mactbone]

Not to mention almost dying from asphyxiation and being knocked out several times.

[Killtacular]

Robots aren't created equal. Some can operate underwater, some can't.

[Beat]

But none bleed red blood.

[shogunthethird]

wow, so it ends not with a bang or a whimper but a CTRL+ALT+DEL *ahem* Reboot did it! (all kidding aside it was a pretty good episode and while I'm at it, I want me some models of all four bigs)

on another note there was a girl at my anime club halloween party dressed as Dorothy, as a joke I took a CD and tried to put it in her head, she and I were the only ones to find that amusing

[Tienshin]

Robots aren't created equal. Some can operate underwater, some can't.
Some people can operate underwater and some people can't.

And no, I have no idea what that means. But it's true.

[Infinity Blade]

*smacks forehead* I CAN'T BELIEVE I MISSED THIS!

The thing in Big Fau resembled an hourglass, right?

What does Roger build and collect in his spare time? HOURGLASSES!

...

Granted, I'm not sure what that MEANS yet aside from a sense of irony...

[Kinel Ozoa]

There may have been robot Rogers, but I don't think this one was since he bled in multiple episodes.

Oh yeah!! Lapse of memory, I think you covered that in an earlier thread. Forgot about the red stuff. That flash back makes no sense to me now.. Suppose I'll just haft to watch it again. :D

[mactbone]

I actually thought the hourglass (which becomes red when it turns vertical) was going to be a timer and would signal when Big Fau would eat Rosewater, or at least ignore his commands. It still looked like there was some red at the top when Rosewater bit it though.

Edit:Fixed confusing wording

[JohnCrichton]

That was depressing. I was kinda hoping for an ending that spent 22 minutes going over the diagram of brilliance that was woven, but instead I get convolution, cop-outs, and metaphors that might not have been metaphors and random images that may or may not have happened.

Ugh.......... this guy tries to explain stuff too. In the meantime, I just hope there will be a 6 episode OVA or movie to tie everything up.

That was a bit too wacked out for what I was hoping/waiting for.

[KingDead]

I wonder about all those flashbacks we had in various episodes: the apocalpytic war with the army of mass produced MegaDeii (with Roger as a pilot? Wasn't there a brief shot of a dead Pilot-Soldier-Roger in another sinking Big O?) and Roger as a bum.

Are they simply remnents from previous cycles, incarnations, or stories? Is Metropolis a collection of stories about Paradigm City, each being written by a new author (I actually really like Wounded_Dragon's Angel as a Muse idea)? Was the elder Rosewater unhappy with the story he wrote involving a war and having a power-mad son, so he sought the new author to set things anew? Remember, he did call out for those empty pages in the book to be filled. Perhaps Angel was the director he wanted Roger to negotiate with to change the story?

Maybe the reason people don't remember things from 40 years earlier because, although the city is the same, events are different. Each cycle is its own self-contained universe, and can't bleed into other stories for the sake of continuity. There may be reoccuring characters that are like constants, but they don't remember anything to preverse this storyline. I wouldn't be surprised if the manga did turn out to end differently, if just to go along with the differing universes, same characters idea.

Gordon Rosewater thought he could become this author, but he was born "inside" the Big O world, while Angel seems to be outside it...

Questions upon questions...

EDIT: Y'know, forget The Matrix. The finale reminds me much more of Dark City.

EDIT2: Reading over that Big-O page that was posted here, I think I know why everyone fears the underground (and why Gordon was so terrified of Big-Venus): Everything that's underground is either left over from previous incarnations, or, more importantly, it's a threat to a person's existence. All the machinery means that a person's reality is a hoax, a fabrication. If a person's identity is solely based on their memories, unfamiliar memories (from previous lives or cycles) that are revealed to someone threatens their present identity as well as others'. Big-Venus effectively erases reality and a person's existence.

The TV Show set-up? It's no more believable than a god that created a self-contained world and tinkers with it, choosing to reset things (floods, lightning bolts from the sky) time to time when it gets ugly down there.

[angelynx_prime]

I would also like to add that the book had the name "Angel Rosewater" as the author.

Noticed that. The control has been passed to her in some sense.

But does anyone else think this might be all for the entertainment of the Bigs? I mean, if it's all a play/TV show, who's the intended audience? It does seem that the vast majority of the "people" we see are just background or projections of some sort who may not even be able to react independently--like their absolutely null response to the robot battle they were watching on the big screens--and the rest are the actors/primary characters. The only ones who seem to be in a position to appreciate their adventures objectively are the Bigs, who we still know so little about.

I'm not suggesting I have an idea WHY they would enjoy running Paradigm through its paces over again, except that the "cast members" do seem to have enough free will (for lack of a better term) to learn things individually, which allows for a different ending next time. (At least I think so.)

I certainly don't think the message is "Life is meaningless" or even "this whole season was meaningless/didn't 'really' happen". It's more, IMHO, like the importance of finding out meaning for yourself and acting on what you discover, as Roger does when he rejects the need for past memories.

But it does give me a giggle to think of Paradigm as essentially a big game of Sim City :)

[angelynx_prime]

... now that I've had time to think about it...

[snip]

And this time, Roger managed to do it. He managed to stop Angel from destroying the world. He managed to preserve it. And Angel accepted it, because, no matter what flaws existed in the world that they tried to create, it was better than the endless cycle of recreation.

Dorothy? Norman? Big Ear? Androids placed in Paradigm to help guide Roger.

Big O? A megadeus that made the choice not to destroy, but to preserve...


This is *really* neat. i hadn't thought of any of this but I like it a lot. Especially the inclusion of Big O's choice, which is as important as any made by the human(oid) characters.

[Duke]

Y'know, it woulda been cool if we had seen some of the one-timers, such as the Electric City old timer and Oliver from Daemonseed.

[Neo-Era]

AS-viewers giving mixed reviews to an anime ending that isn't straightforward. Wow. What a shock. I'm so surprised.

But, take heart, AS fans. I hear there's actually an alternate ending that's more Adult Swim-friendly: Roger instead offers the Big Venus a can of Crystal Pepsi and then him and Dorothy and Angel sit around and make some bad Star Trek: Voyager puns. The End.

There's also an Adult Swim-approved edit of the ending of Char's Counterattack in which Char tells Amuro that 7 of 9 could've been his mother and then a big can of Crystal Pepsi flies in and pushes the asteroid Axis away from the Earth.

[Delthayre]

*rimsh...*

No, you know what? You don't get one.

[DianaGohan]

I beileve That I Just Answered A Question I asked with "The Show Must Go On" Big O Episode Review.

(The End Of The Episode Plays. The image of "We Have Come To Terms" pulls away to a T.V set, where the Aqua Teen Hunger Force is watching the episode).

Master Shake: What the hell was that?

Meatwad: I'll tell you what that was boy. It was some.... you know robots and uh, tomatoes?

Master Shake: Gee, I guess that answers my question, if I had my brain removed and stuck on the trolley to idiotville!

Frylock: Shake, you actually have to try to understand the episode by actually paying attention to what happen in it, not looking at the floor and looking at those damn magazines!

Master Shake: Hey, I've been waiting two damn weeks for this episode and what do I get? Crap! Just plain confusing crap.

Meatwad: Hey, I liked it. It was cool.

Master Shake: Yeah, just as cool as you going back into that freezer. Won't that be fun?

Frylock: Okay, maybe if you analyze the episode, you'll get it. Starting from of course the Big Fau Big O confrotation where-

Master Shake: You actually remember the damn robot names! Heh hey fangirl, shall I make some stickers and stick them on your skirt while your cosplay to your damn internet friends at your nerd convention this weekend?

Frylock: It's called learning what you're watching Shake. People bother to remember you're name, they can easily remember the Bigs.

Meatwad: Yeah, and Alex was like "I'm the God Boy" and Roger was like "This is for the people" and then he liked tried to punch him, but Big Fau blocked it and Alex went "Nah uh, Boy" and then like took off his helmet. So the Big O is bald too? If I had some money and stamps, I'd send him some hair I found in the attic, to you know, make him feel better.

Frylock: It's a giant robot Meatwad, it dosen't need hair. Anyway, while this is going on, we see that Datsun is realizing that the system he works for isn't really the best way to help the people, so he quits.

Master Shake: What a damn whiner. And he threw down his badge. Ooh gee, that was important HOW?

Frylock: It builds on a bigger message Shake.

Master Shake: Yeah, here's the message: He's a moron in a city full of brain dead hippies, and that if I'm paying my taxes next year, which you will be paying, I will send a reality check down to Paradime and cash it on his head to see his brain swell with eggnog from the fountain of uselessness!

Frylock: ..... You know Shake, that didn't make a damn lick of sense.

Master Shake: Yeah it did. You just have to get the big picture, you that gay stuff you were telling me awhile ago.

Meatwad: And then Big Fau was like drilling Big O and Big O shot off his rockets and they like did some damage.

Frylock: Actually, they didn't do any real damage.

Master Shake: I don't know Frylock, you know that smoke, it could of done something, like everyone else thought until it was revealed the stupid robot wasn't even hurt! Oh where have I seen that before, it's so orignal, I mean it's not like.... Dragonball Z!!

Frylock: You watch that?

Master Shake: Oh yeah, like someone who reads Vouge has an opinion.

Frylock: Anyway, then Big Fau started it's main attack and punctured the Big O and nearly killed Roger.

Meatwad: Hey what's with that andriod girl?

Master Shake: Who, Dorothy?

Frylock: Oh, I though you didn't remember the characters.

Master Shake: Hey, she was hot. I wanted some of her. And I will have her!!

Frylock: Yeah, no you won't.

Master Shake: I'll get farther then you will, that is obvious.

Meatwad: You know, she was like screaming "Roger" and then there's the other guy.... Dreck... Smeck... Captain Speck?

Frylock: Beck?

Meatwad: No.... oh wait yeah, that was him. He was like "Oh no girl you have no memories" and she like did and he was like "Damn".

Frylock: Well obviously, it's to show Roger's connection to Dorothy and her connection to Roger and the Big O.

Master Shake: And it shows you're connection to the computer where you slop up this crap with you're stupid chat room buddies who actually give a crap as to what you have to say.

Frylock: And who cares what you have to Shake.

Master Shake: Your mom does. That's what she said when I was in bed with her and she and I had sex in front of your dad!

Frylock: I'm gonna pretend I didn't hear that.

Master Shake: Good, cause it did.

Frylock: Anyway, now the Big Fau is dragging the Big O to the ocean.

Master Shake: Cause me and you're mom-

Frylock: Which is kinda like that scene in episode 18-

Master Shake: Got kinda nasty, if you know what I mean-

Frylock: Except it's not Beck controlling a Roger Head to make Big O fall-

Master Shake: I mean, I'd tell you about, but... what's this rated anyway?

Meatwad: It's G... G.

Master Shake: The hell it's rated G! I say it's R and R is what I'm going to make to your bowels when I... get some guns... from the basement.

Meatwad: Those glue guns?

Master Shake: Well... you shut up.

Fryock: Anyway, that's when Datsun shows up and that tank and shoots at Big Fau.

Master Shake: Yeah, like that did anything. It did nothing, that's what it did!

Frylock: But it show's that he's his own man now and that he will protect justice in his own way, and there are people who also believe that-

Master Shake: Who were killed.

Frylock: Well... technically, yes.

Master Shake: No they're dead all right, by some laser cannons, which I should have. Give me those laser cannons.

Meatwad: Okay. Wait, I don't have them.

Master Shake: Then you're useless to me! Go and kill yourself in the backyard with the hammer in the bedroom!

Meatwad: No boy. That's how Ms Scarlett died and she was like in pain. I don't like that.

Frylock: This isn't clue Meatwad.

Meatwad: What about them wires that connected to Alex? I think those are what strangled the butelor.

Master Shake: No, the butleor was with Dorothy and that other guy, and Dorothy is still mine and she was coming to see me and get some! Yeah that's what I'm talking about baby.

Frylock: No Shake. She and Norman left to go and get Roger while those wires that connected to Alex, that would connect him to the Big Fau permantley and make them one and it's wasn't part of any damn clue game.

Meatwad: Yeah, and Beck said "I hate them, Black and White" but it don't matter if you're black or white. Michael Jackson taught us that?

Master Shake: What do you mean? You're an idiot!!! How the hell you even learned to breath is beyond me!

Frylock: Stop getting off track guys. Anyway, while all this was going on, Gordon Rosewater was getting-

Master Shake: That memory Angel.

Frylock: Do you recongize only female characters?

Master: It took you that long to catch on? Why do you think I remember you're name, Frygirl. It aint you're damn scar. I don't know who you're trying to impress with that.

Meatwad: Hey, they had like a 600 level elvataor. I wish we had one... and some more floors, because we need a bathroom, cause I'm sick of going on the bushes where the squirrels can see me.

Frylock: We'll talk about that later Meatwad. Anyway, Gordon led Angel to the floor where she would discover her destiny: To wipe away the memories and start again like what happen 40 years ago?

Meatwad: Yeah, and she got them angel wings. Those were damn cool.

Master Shake: She should of taken her clothes off! That's what we all wanted to see!

Frylock: No it wasn't Shake.

Master Shake: Well gee, I wasn't asking the female, unless she's a lesbian. Why don't you go make out with anime babe and talk about how you love Toonami so god damn much?

Frylock: Why don't you shut up? Anyway, then we got to act two. The Big O tried to do the same thing to Roger as Fau did with Alex, but Roger refused because he wanted to be himself, even though the memories he had recieved told him nothing about himself except that he was more of an actor being played by someone new everytime more then before.

Master Shake: Who cares about that? Why can't he just damn drown in the water?

Frylock; Because Shake, the main character can't died.

Master Shake: Well what about Spike in Cowboy Bebop-

Frylock: Let me guess, you watched because of Faye?

Master Shake: You made me friggin watch it with you to show me "genius". I had to have seen something the rest of the time my eyes were crapping with crap!

Frylock: Anyway, Big O might be getting a third sesaon, so Roger must stay alive. Enter in Dorothy, in the Wetsuit from "Hydra".

Master Shake: Gee thanks you Josephinnie for referring to that episode. Now all you're internet buddies can wow at you're knowledge of this disease while real people hit you with pinecone feeders from the woods wondering what the hell you're problem is!!

Frylock: You are such a Louse, Master Shake.

Master Shake: Oh gee, that made me see the light! Quote the robot again why don't you. It's better then what you sprout regulary from you're mouth anyway.

Meatwad: Hey, what was with that next scene?

Frylock: You mean Big O getting out of the water and refighting Big Fau?

Meatwad: Yeah boy. Now that's what I'm talking about: Rematch. Cauze them Big Fau was like "I got these missles fist" and Big O was like "And I blocked these suckers" boy and then Big O was like using his super new attack.

Master Shake: Yeah, the writer's really pulled that out of they're ass again.

Frylock: No they didn't. It could only be used because of the fact that Dorothy installed herself into the Big O and they in some way became one and that union allowed Big O to use that attack, which let them win.

Master Shake: Yeah, blowing up the dome and half of the white guy. That was really winning.

Frylock: Well, win is kinda an overstatement. But then came Big Venus-

Master Shake: Yeah, she was ready for my Penis!

Frylock: Shake...

Master Shake: Oh please. Simpsons does worse penis refrences then that.

Meatwad: Yeah, and Big Venus was like "I'm erasing all of you guys" and then Roger was like "Oh no you don't girl. Cause you see, even though I know I know nothing about how I am, I know about the unicorns and the flowers and the tomatoes of memory, and that in life, you have to let what comes to you, and when you see some guy in the street chasing after to you with his baseball bat, you know you have to get the hell out of they're quick before Vinnie and his boys come down because you took this C.D. and you kinda have no damn money and-

Master Shake: Hey genius! No one's listening or cares.

Frylock: And to further illustrate this, it fades to white and the series kinda starts over again, this time with probably a new Roger, but this time Angel and Dorothy's there with him, and he's still a Negoiator, and-

Master Shake: It sucks! Just say it Frylock! It sucks worse then you Baked Ziti, which thank you very much made me hurl up for 3 days straight.

Frylock: Stop exxagerating Shake. Anyway, I give this episode an A+. It delievred just the kind of ending I would want for the show, and left it open for another season with some unanswered question that are now being picked upon by the fans.

Meatwad: Yeah, well I give it an A- boy. It had some good action, but it was like really confusing at times, and like the directors really kinda ran out of steam at the end, and were like "Yo boy, we need to like end it somehow" and were like "It's restarting time boy!"

Master Shake: Would you guys quit tring to act so damn smart? It gets an D because it was crap and confusing and it didn't show me with Dorothy and Angel, cause you know after the show, we did it. Up and down, all night long baby.

Frylock: Stop lying Shake.

Master Shake: Why don't you make me, woman

*DianaGohan appears*

DianaGohan: No, that would be my job. What the hell are you doing in my review?

Meatwad: Oh I'm just visiting.

Frylock: Shake said you called us to do the review and gave us this note about it.

DianaGohan: Well actually I meant to address that to the Big O crew, but you guys did a good enough job.

Master Shake: You bet you're ass I did! Now come over here women, and get my dinner, or else I'll smack you down!

*Hits Shake far, far away*

Frylock: It's about damn time.

DianaGohan: Well that's about it. For my special review everyone. And remember, to go and plug you're thoughts for another season in my special thread now.

Meatwad: You be plugging again? Cause I see them wires.

DianaGohan: Yeah, it's the best ender I could come up with. I think it works well.

Space Ghost: Super well! *invisos off*

DianaGohan: Yeah... whatever.

*End Of Review*

[KingDead]

Roger instead offers the Big Venus a can of Crystal Pepsi...

No, no, no. It's Pepsi Vanilla now. And then Big O flips out a rad stereo system and jumps up and down.

Or the Pepsi with the lemon, where Angel and Dorothy unzip themselves to reveal they're actually the Osmonds. And Roger screams.

[SSJPabs]

Don't forget the big finale headlined by Shakira...

[Sanwich]

Wow. I can't really come up with anything super-constructive to say here, but I'll try to form some sort of coherent opinion.

First off, I did like the ending in itself, as an episode. It was interesting, and *some* things were revealed - I did recognize the pattern on Angel's back vs. the marks made when Rosewater 'merged' with Big Fau, etc. However, while the 'who' and 'what' were explained in a borderline satisfactory manner, I'm still dying to know about the 'how' and 'why' - which happen to be the same things I've been wondering about since the beginning of the series. If this is all literal in the 'world' of Paradigm City, why was everything holographic? How are these images created? Who's the audience, besides the director herself? What's beyond those stage lights? Why the heck is this thing going on in the first place, and how did it even start?

I wasn't really expecting a lot of closure here - I've come to be pretty comfortable with puzzling anime endings. Still, this was a little lacking in tangible, straight answers. In my opinion, of course.

I do kinda like and agree with some speculation folks have made, and I'll probably come up with my own theories eventually... The whole idea of Paradigm as a huge metaphor for a story actually works really well - but if it were true, I'd be depressed as all heck that the characters aren't really 'real'... Destined to live out essentially the same plot for all eternity. Sure, Big O the television show in itself is a story with fictional characters, but. Arg. Getting too deep. Trying to find a story within a story within a story is frustrating. ;)

[Beat]

We need an Aqua Teen where Shake and crew watch Big O.

[KingDead]

What's beyond those stage lights?

Probably nothing. A funny idea that came to me while reading that Big-O plot summary page is that they're all TV show characters with memories of the actual actors, only the real world has been destroyed in that apocalyptic war. And, just like the synthetic tomatoes being constantly grown to some day match the real thing, these characters - "fake people" if you will - are constantly living in cycles to become real themselves.

Have they at the end? Perhaps, since Angel is not like any of the other characters.

Oh well, it's a crazy thought, anyways.

[wrenchien]

well, aside from very brief visions of williams street being attacked by rabid fans with carbombs at the beginning of AS's airings, i guess the show finally did go on.

And what a show.

i think it was pretty sad, that datsun and reality were erased by big venus.. but hopefully they'll exist again somehow...

was that RL dorothy and roger going into the control room and confronting angel at the end? briefly? now that makes sense.

And was that a human dorothy there prior to the final credits? a human one? she looked a bit more human than dorothy did?

nice virtual reality chamber. wish my home town was really like that, would vanish, and be replaced with where i really would prefer to be.

....no, i think shake and company would have better things to do, than to discuss this... like run from anyone offering them sandwiches with horns. but i digress.

and you thought eva had a shock ending? eva's ending , whatever it was, was tame compared to this. and far less enjoyable. biggest mind &#*@& EVER.

and even the theme song 'now and forever' makes sense.

only one thing puzzles me...

.. why did they air mission hill tonight, especially since there's a real mission, texas so much cooler of a city?

remind me to moon techwood drive someday if i get to wander atlanta, even if half drowsy from a day of bus travel. mmm.

and then thank them for finally getting it right.

let's hope as never has any more halloween parties on nights where series end, ever again.

amen,

wrenchien

[Tapout]

I can't believe more people didn't see "Stripes" coming. After all the garbage they took this week you know they were going to do it.

The episode was, IMO, yet another in a long line of anime that was great until the big "F--- You" at the end. At least this one has a chance of more episodes being made.

[Beat]

People, relax. I don't see this so much as an ending as a pitch for a 3rd and final season where all will be answered.

[Pimmelmann]

OK, here are two things I notice while watching carefully that I think are probably important, but I am not sure why.

1. What appears to be Roger and Dorothy are in the area with the TV screens where Angel is, near the end. Behind them on the wall is a promotional poster for Big O.

2. The show kind of restarts or whatever at the end, where people noticed that Dorothy (?) and Angel (?) don't look quite right. Well, in this part, you see a reflection of where Roger wears the all-important watch device, but he doesn't have it on.

I am starting to think there isn't really an answer. It was left extremely open-ended by any standard.

If there is anyone here familiar with the manga, please tell me if this is how it ended, or if there is more or different material there and how it might or might not relate to the creation of a Big O anime season three.

I'm trying to assume there's a larger truth here and not get pissed off, but the past three anime I have watched-.hack//sign, Blue Gender, and Big O-all seem to have had variously vague, rushed, and dismissive endings. I'm having a hard time.

[SSJPabs]

Well remember, the reason that .hack has an open ended ending is because they are trying to get you to buy the games where the story continues. And believe me, this IS a continuation. It's all marketing in .hack's part.

Anyhow.... Big-O... yeah. Wow. Maybe it'll make more sense in the 2nd airing.

[moldorm]

One thing I've been pondering...

Could Gorden Rosewater been the one who piloted Big Venus 40 years ago, erasing everyone's memories, and someone else's name was on the Metropolis book? Now it seems Angel Rosewater is the writer of the book, so could someone else be destined to pilot Big Venus and reset the world once again, and become the next author of the Metropolis book, replacing Angel as Angel replaced Gordon?

[wrenchien]

hurry !

now, run to your tv!! don't miss it.. @_@

[Teek]

They just released a .hack//sign episode 28 over in Japan which seems to resolve a lot of the Tsukasa and other sign character arcs. I'd look for the English version of it on the last .hack DVD when it is released next year.

Now if we could get a Big O episode 27 or an OVA series... or a season three where Roger and Dorothy live happily ever after... *g*

Moldorm, I think that is a good theory, especially since the name on the book was that of Gordon before. Maybe he did it the first time but it didn't exactly go as he had planned for it to and the story remained unresolved.

My theory is maybe that something happed to the Earth and in attempt to regain their memories they built a huge holodeck like thing where in the survivors could relive the preview remaining days before the event and get back the memories they knew where in there. The first time it happened maybe a few people did end up regaining their memories like Angel, however Gordon wasn't satisfied and had most everything start over again in attempt to get the memories himself. Who knows, heheh. The whole idea of it being a show is how Angel and the rest may interpret it so it appears to them that way, not that it itself is actually a show. Just a medium for them to try and regain what they lost.

[Artimus Gigan]

Nobody figured it out


The whole damn world restarted with the memories intact

[William C. Maune]

While Bandai/Sunrise, etc. could make another episode, OAV, etc. Cartoon Network's Big O contract gives them the option of ordering 26 more episodes of the series. That is probably our best chance.

[William C. Maune]

Nobody figured it out


The whole damn world restarted with the memories intact

That's my "Mighty Max" theory.

[Teek]

You mean the original memories or the memories of what just happened with the Big's fighting and such?

An Angel line I just caught, she says "So then now, *I'M* the one making the choice?" Leads me to think Angel had memories from the last restart when Gordon attempted to reset everything to try to regain the memories again. Maybe she was the previous pilot of Big Fau working with Roger on the police force. That was how she got the scars on her back, maybe she merged with Big Fau and got some memories, thereby allowing her to do the reset next time. Maybe since Alex merged with Fau if he were to come back in the next version HE could reset things with Venus. I think maybe there was a third party responsible for resetting when they had build the huge paradign construct but maybe they have since died, however certain people within the construct gain the ability to reset the system on demand once they had gained certain memories. Doesn't make Gordon or Angel different than all the others, just that they had gained the memories to reset the system.

Why they would reset the system though when the whole purpose is the gather memories is beyond me though...

[William C. Maune]

You mean the original memories or the memories of what just happened with the Big's fighting and such?

My guess is just the memories of the past 40 years.

[herbkir]

Big O did kinda wrap up in this episode but left too much unanswered. Typical anime ending. I hope AS orders a 3rd season because I'd really like to find out who or what was behind it all. As to the Stripes joke, that was very clever. "GOTCHA!" Fooled me for a minute there. Then I had a good laugh and got into Ep. 26.

But I think the ending kinda spoiled the repeatability of Big O. Knowing 25 of the 26 episodes were essentially meaningless diminishes my motive for watching them again. In effect, all the characters were figments of a fantasy within the fantasy.

I can watch Inuyasha over and over again because I don't know what the ending will be. Each re-viewing allows me to catch some other detail that fuels speculation about how the series will end. Unless the IY ending is one of those "It was all a dream" things, the episodes leading up to that ending will continue to be real for me because they will continue to be "real" for the characters. (^_*)

[Artimus Gigan]

That's my "Mighty Max" theory.
yes exactly Big O is jsut like Mighty Max

maybe in season three there will be a Big Max?


BIG MAX SHOOOOOOOOWTIMMMMME!!!

[wrenchien]

so i guess, the next loop will have a human dorothy in this one?

now i can't wait for the reruns.

at least they can't screw up the reruns now can they!?!

... can they?

[Artimus Gigan]

No Dorothy is still an android, the collaped building at the end showed that what damage was done to the city remained, what you basicly saw was big venus anialating rosewater from the picture. No evil leader means that nwo the citizens wil,lbegin to emerge from the dome/

[Pimmelmann]

You mean the original memories or the memories of what just happened with the Big's fighting and such?

At the beginning, the newspaper shows the results of the Big O-Big V fight before it happens (or whatever we see happens)! And that guy was an android, and I don't know what that signifies.

I notice that when Dorothy speaks in the "control room," she isn't missing the CD thing in her head.

I don't see much of a signifier anywhere in the "ending" as to what memories they do or do not have, but maybe the fact that the clock tower is fallen means something.

Was the Griffon (Roger's car) also a bit different than we had always seen it too? Someone has floated the theory that the art at the end wasn't meant to be different and was just rushed at the last minute, but this is silly to me. if it were meant to be the same as the first episode, for example, they could have reused existing animation. Those weird not-Dorothy and not-Angel girls have to be significant somehow.

[SSJPabs]

I... I want there to be a season 3. I care about these characters enough that I would be interested in seeing them live their new lives, maybe knowing what they know making different choices. I'd even enjoy seeing Angel, Roger and Dorothy outside the show to speak, talking about how to make the series.

The question still is... why?

Why make a "Big-O" show? What is the purpose?

[Artimus Gigan]

Big O was made a "show" because he was supposed to fight the ones who retained their memories, ya see Rosewater basicly wanted his perfect world to be derived from movies, because movies are essencily a perfect world, Rosewater wanetd a perfect world but the memories of 40 years ago would corrupt that world because they were of free will. The Bigs were made for war, Rosewater had venus destroy all the bigs except for a few for a just incase situation, he used the memories of people he thought were useful and dowloaded them into clones. Rosewater didn't want anymore fighting so he kinda took away the people's abilities to know how to make machines like the Bigs. it was peace by force.

[Teek]

I don't think it is a show really, I think that is the only way their mind is able to grasp the situation they are in, to portray it as a show. Whereas it seems to really be a giant sim room to try and regain memories of the past. At certain points those within are able to regain the ability to reset the system. Seemingly Gordon before and now Angel.

All the images of it as a show are coming from Angel. Her fragile mind is attempting to explain all the weird things going on. Doesn't mean it is actually a show, just that she is interpretting her place this time around as being the director of this sim world. I would imagine her in the control room with the Big O poster and such as her creation within the construct attempting to better grasp what is going on and eventually use the powers of the world to return everything to how it was to keep trying to legitimately get the full memories everyone is searching for.

[SSJPabs]

Artimus Gigan, that made less sense to me than Act: 26. I was asking it in a rhetorical sense anyway. Answer the question in Season 3.

EDIT: WCM is right, Teek DOES have a very interesting theory that has at least some vague basis in reality. More than what I got...

My personal theory is that it's all a simulation run by someone and Angel is the Independant Variable in this simulation (she is a catalyst) but somehow got damaged and trapped in the system with no memory like the rest of 'em.

She is playing the "Angel" roll, since they created a character for her but she doesn't remember her real life. That's why she has all the wierd powers, she's really an Admin!

[William C. Maune]

"I don't think it is a show really, I think that is the only way their mind is able to grasp the situation they are in, to portray it as a show. Whereas it seems to really be a giant sim room to try and regain memories of the past. At certain points those within are able to regain the ability to reset the system. Seemingly Gordon before and now Angel.

All the images of it as a show are coming from Angel. Her fragile mind is attempting to explain all the weird things going on. Doesn't mean it is actually a show, just that she is interpretting her place this time around as being the director of this sim world. I would imagine her in the control room with the Big O poster and such as her creation within the construct attempting to better grasp what is going on and eventually use the powers of the world to return everything to how it was to keep trying to legitimately get the full memories everyone is searching for."

I like this theory!

[Artimus Gigan]

Rosewater wanted perfect untainted world. memories would taint world. Rosewater had venus erase memories to start anew. he gave trusted people's memories to clones who become those people, rosewater allowed tursted people to use technology from 40 years ago to keep his world on track.

Season 3 will probobly revolve around the people now seeing their world restart and realize that there is a bigger world outhere, and hence come out from the dome, and forget the hunt for memories and make new ones of the new world they are given.

[Sketch]

Man I was really hoping it would be more brilliant... Darn cop-outs, but though it was cliche it was a decent ending overall (just unsatisfying).

But Big O's UBER CANNON made it all worth it!

[Artimus Gigan]

That scene with Angel watching those T.V.s and seeing roger and dorethy come get her, she was actualy inside Big Venus

[Teek]

My thoughts drift to all the flashes of memories of Bigs fighting. Are those memories from pre-40 years ago or before the creation of and everyone was placed into the Paradigm sim world? If it is 40 years ago it looks like everything got out of hand. One would wonder why in a sim world Bigs and huge monsters would exist, but maybe they were they when everyone originally lost their memories? They figured they had to be included in the sim world since they appeared to play an actual part in the original memory disappearance. That would mean maybe all the Big's fighting was from pre-40 years ago. After all was said and done Gordon decided it would be best to wipe Paradigm of most of the Big's and monsters since everything totally went to hell when there were so many of them in the sim world? The ones that remained still play their part, perhaps giving the worthy pilots the ability to manage the system. Think of this, had Roger merged with Big O *HE* would then have had those scars as well. Would that mean HE could then have controlled the system as well? It just happened to be that in the past Angel merged with Big Fau or Duo gaining some memories and thus had the ability to use Big Venus to reset the system?

Edit: Another thought, Big Fau merged with Alex when he was getting really full of himself and selfish and acting as a God. Roger did not merge with Big O, which had have him loose some of his uniqueness but also would have saved his life. What is the connection there between the Bigs wanting to merge with their pilots? Perhaps Angel merged in the past out of some selfishness or need to preserve herself, which granted her the ability to control the system this time around. Perhaps if the merger is done out of preservation it gives them the ability to control the system?

[Teek]

That scene with Angel watching those T.V.s and seeing roger and dorethy come get her, she was actualy inside Big Venus

Where's the proof in this? That looks nothing like all the other Big pilot seats. It appears Venus moves on its own free will and Angel is outside the so called system, while actually still in it, just in a control room of her own device. When Angel finally realizes she can live on her own free will, she unconsciously allows Roger and Dorothy to join her in her control room construct.

[Exatron]

One thing I've been pondering...

Could Gorden Rosewater been the one who piloted Big Venus 40 years ago, erasing everyone's memories, and someone else's name was on the Metropolis book? Now it seems Angel Rosewater is the writer of the book, so could someone else be destined to pilot Big Venus and reset the world once again, and become the next author of the Metropolis book, replacing Angel as Angel replaced Gordon?

That's what I'm thinking. Alex Rosewater must have found about the need for a new author (god?) for the next cycle and attempted to build it according to his desires.

[Karl Olson]

A man said to the universe:
"Sir, I exist!
"However," replied the universe,
"The fact has not created in me
A sense of obligation."

-Stephen Crane

A man said to a woman:
"Miss, you exist"
"I suppose," replied the woman,
"The fact has created in me
A sense of obligation."

-Chiaka Konaka, as interpreted by Karl Olson

Aw, come on, y'all knew I'd philosophize this up a notch.

First off, lets get into a little naming dissection, and to start, lets play with the name Rosewater.

Rose = usually symbolic of love, and occaisionally of the cycle of life and death (think withered roses.)
Water = usually symbolic of life.

So, the name itself suggests a creator, a god, with full power over their domain, life and death. This is furthered by the meaning of the name Alex:

Alex, from Alexander (Greek Root) = Helper and defender of mankind.

Therefore, it is only obvious that he'd see himself as the true defender of the populous, and the god of Paradigm City.

Gordon (English Root) = from the cornered hill

Given that, I guess you could call Gordon the keystone God, the genesis creator of Paradigm.

Angel (Latin Root) = Angel, obviously.

Angel Rosewater could there for be the real God. Actually, I think this even out of my league, unless we go the fallen angel route, IE: Lucifer. That said, she is, atleast metaphysically, Satan given the power of God. The power of Life and Death over the physical realm.

Another way to phrase it is like this:
Gordon = Brahma
Alex = Vishnu
Angel = Shiva

though one could contest that maybe Alex and Angel's roles should swap. depends on who you think is the preserver and who is the destroyer.

So anyway, what does Roger Smith mean literally:

Roger (Germanic Root) = Famous Spear
Smith (English Root) = Black Smith

One could say his name's true meaning is the reason he pilots the Black Megadeuce, the Big O. It's also the reason he is the star attaction, for his name holds with in it fame.

Dorothy Wayneright:

Dorothy (Greek Root) = A gift from God

Wayne (English Root) = Wagoner = One who conducts (drives) a wagon.

Right (English Root) = To put in order or set right; correct.

So what is Dorothy Wayneright? A gift from God, to help Roger correctly pilot the Big O, or so it would seem.

Still with me? Good, because it only gets worse from here on out, cause I'm gonna dig into that Shakespere quote some people here have been fond of kicking around in relation to Big O, but in it's entirety:

"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts,
His acts being seven ages. At first the infant,
Mewling and puking in the nurse's arms.
And then the whining school-boy, with his satchel
And shining morning face, creeping like snail
Unwillingly to school. And then the lover,
Sighing like furnace, with a woeful ballad
Made to his mistress' eyebrow. Then a soldier,
Full of strange oaths and bearded like the pard,
Jealous in honour, sudden and quick in quarrel,
Seeking the bubble reputation
Even in the cannon's mouth. And then the justice,
In fair round belly with good capon lined,
With eyes severe and beard of formal cut,
Full of wise saws and modern instances;
And so he plays his part. The sixth age shifts
Into the lean and slipper'd pantaloon,
With spectacles on nose and pouch on side,
His youthful hose, well saved, a world too wide
For his shrunk shank; and his big manly voice,
Turning again toward childish treble, pipes
And whistles in his sound. Last scene of all,
That ends this strange eventful history,
Is second childishness and mere oblivion,
Sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything."

Boom. Those of you doing what Matt Wilson is telling you to do, and succeeding, probably already know where I'm going with this... or not.

Anyway, if Paradigm is the stage, then who is the man that is described that paragraph, or does it apply to everyone in the city in different ways, or is something else still. From my view, it would seem that Paradigm has gone through the cycle, and has people reprasentive of the stages. It has cycled from the puking, mewling, infant, without memory, and without consideration for others (Alex), to the whining school boy (Beck), to the lover (Roger as the Smart Alek Playboy), to the soldier (Dastun,) to the man with wise saws and modern instances (Roger as the Megadeuce Pilot and the Negotiator) to the old man who voice now trembles (Gordon) and lastly the second childishness (Angel, though the terminology "second child" also recalls Asuka from Eva, interestingly enough.)

and I think that's where I stop for now since I have class in the morning. ;)

[Sampo]

http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/SM2.jpghttp://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/SM1.jpg

I am also not sure what the heck just happened. Will the show go on? I am not sure what they could put into a third season of Big O. It would be interesting to see what they do come up with though. Gah, I really wanted to see Roger and Dorothy relationship turn into something more romantic... ah well. I did enjoy that line where Roger asks Dorothy if she could have given him mouth-to-mouth instead of crushing that air tank. :D

That Stripe stunt they pulled was kinda funny. I am glad I didn't stop recording and change the channel out of disgust though, which I really wanted to do when I saw that pop up.

Its late here, so gonna post a boat load of screen caps. Total came out around 67 or so, thus this post will be pretty long :sweat:

Also I would like to take the time out and say hey it was a great show and I did enjoy making screen caps for this series. I'm gonna miss making em.

Screen caps, NOW in right aspect ratio!

Pans:

Dorothy wired up and Roger at Big O's controls. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/pan1.jpg)
A Big O holding a sand dragon's head. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/pan2.jpg)
Paradigm City. Will this be the last time we see it? (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/pan3.jpg)

Screen Caps of:

Big Ear (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/2.jpg)
Big Fau and Big O (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/3.jpg)
Big O's eyes glowing. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/4.jpg)
Big O's blows glance of Fau's shielding. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/5.jpg)

Dastun's badge. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/6.jpg)
Alex is not impressed. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/7.jpg)
Big O with its new Dastun look. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/8.jpg)
Big Fau looking bad ass. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/9.jpg)
Alex enjoying himself. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/10.jpg)

Other officer. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/11.jpg)
Big Fau using its wrist blades to rip up Big O. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/12.jpg)
Big O firing its chest missiles with no effect. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/13.jpg)
Surprised Roger. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/14.jpg)
Dorothy awakens from her slumber. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/15.jpg)

Beck freaks out. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/16.jpg)
Fau stroling through the street. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/17.jpg)
Fau dragging Big O. Big O's cockpit is exposed. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/18.jpg)
Dorothy functioning without her memories. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/20.jpg)
Dastun's fellow cops firing on Big Fau. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/21.jpg)

Yet another Alex shot. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/22.jpg)
Alex jacks in, Angel's scars glowing. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/23.jpg)
Big Fau attempts to drop Big O into the sea. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/24.jpg)
Another pic of Alex... (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/25.jpg) Geez I didn't notice I took that many of him.
Beck can't believe what is happening. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/26.jpg)

Norman and Dorothy. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/27.jpg)
Gordon and Angel. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/28.jpg)
Odd elevator number counting up. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/29.jpg)
Angel wings. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/30.jpg)
In the depths of the sea, gears could be seen. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/31.jpg)

Memories flood Roger's mind. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/32.jpg) Really cool pic of Big Venus.
Shocking images of Big O and Roger. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/33.jpg)
Images of Robo Rogers, him on TV, Angel the director, and a CUTEE Dorothy doll with diagram. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/34.jpg)
Angel the director holding that book. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/35.jpg)
Dorothy to the rescue. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/36.jpg)

Dorothy CRUSH tank. Roger looks upset. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/37.jpg)
Beck is still out of it. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/39.jpg)
YET ANOTHER pic of Alex. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/40.jpg)
Fau's memories/hourglass turns red. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/41.jpg)
COOL images of Big Fau firing off its missile/torpedo arms at Big O. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/42.jpg)

Alex's reaction as Big O easily stops this attack. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/43.jpg)
Big O ready's it FINAL STAGE! (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/47.jpg) Wow no wonder Big O has that Skirt of Doom. I always wanted to know the real purpose for them.
Big O charging up and firing. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/49.jpg)
The resulting destruction. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/50.jpg) This should make Roger Smith happy. :)
Closeup of Dorothy. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/51.jpg)

Another shot of that hourglass. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/52.jpg)
Big Fau heavily damaged. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/53.jpg)
Angel is summoned. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/54.jpg)
negative image of Big Fau (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/55.jpg)
LAST pic of Alex. Promise :) (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/56.jpg)

Concerned Roger and Dorothy. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/57.jpg)
Big O and Big Venus. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/58.jpg)
Roger discussing memories to Angel. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/59.jpg)
Roger awaits his fate. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/60.jpg)
Angel the Director infront of multiple TV screens. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/61.jpg) Note. A majority of those images have Roger and Angel in them...

Written by Angel Rosewater. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/62.jpg)
Angel crying and Roger and Dorothy. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/63.jpg) Cool Big O poster in the background... I want one...
Big O and Big Venus have come to terms. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/64.jpg)
Uh, hmm... I guess that suppose to be Angel and Dorothy. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/65.jpg)
I always wanted to post the licence plate on Roger's car. So there. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/67.jpg)

[edit] Strange thought. I wonder if those mass produced Roger Smiths were created for the fans of Angel's Big O show. *shurg* Ah, me go sleep now.

[CryptiniteDemon]

I think of it as Angel is the writer/director of a show. Nobody remembers more than 40 years ago because she started the story at some random point and the author didn't give all the characters background, so naturally they don't remember.

I would say her erasing everything is like her quitting the show or something but then Roger talks her back into it and they go on creating.

I dunno, yeah my theory has some big fricken holes, but hey ya know I just watched the episode about 10 minutes ago.

[kaine23]

So what role did Schawartzvold play in all this?

[DemonKrowno]

FAN-TAS-TIC

they'd be silly not to order more episodes.....right?

but if so,how would it ever continue?


anyway,thanks to sampo i do dis:
http://www.geocities.com/evilco_99/bigv.txt

creepy,no?

Note from Mynd Hed: Changed the image to a link to prevent annoying horizontal scrollifying. But everybody click on it, because it's cool! (-:

[Dr Kain]

I'm satisfied because I understand nearly everything that went on. I don't want to see another season. If they want to make any more Big O things, then just do an OVA or movie, but no more tv series.

Everything seemed to have been repeating itself. Now, I'm figuring all those Bigs you saw in the flashbacks were not all there at the same time. They were 1000s of flashbacks going on at once, but it looked like it was the same time because the same thing happened every time, Roger lost. Remember the flashback where you saw him in a police uniform while piloting Big O? Did you noticed the seen when Roger was sinking into the ocean of him seeing himself dead in the ocean? He made the choice to live, thus breaking the same cycle that would repeat itself continuously. Big Venus came in and basically did RESET on the world, but because Roger was there to know who the pilot was, he was able to stop it to change things. Angel and Dorothy would be there from the beginning because he wants to remember them no matter what, and only rely on the present and future. Things will go on differently, while events will happened similar. That means Alan, Alex, and Schwartzwald may have the chance to come back. Beck seemed to know what was going on, and he was having fun because Roger chose to live on and fight.

Basically Paradigm is destined to be destroyed and rebuilt in an endless cycle, but Roger seems to have finally broken the circle from happening exactly as it did before.

[Pimmelmann]

That scene with Angel watching those T.V.s and seeing roger and dorethy come get her, she was actualy inside Big Venus

I think this may have been the intention. Thus the appearance of some version of Roger and Dorothy after the "merger" or whatever it was. What I do not understand is why Dorothy not only recognized Big Venus but even seemed to understand its significance.

While I'm at it, I am also not clear on why Dorothy just began working without her bits, how Beck would know all of what he knew, what's supposed to be on the other 665 levels, what the thing was doing the killing in episode 13, what the point of the entire Dan Dastun "Winter Night Phantom" business was, what Norman's last line means, what the image of the previous dead but clearly organic Roger Smith means when measured against the image of a machine churning out Roger Smith androids, and about fifty other assorted elements.

[kaine23]

I think I'm getting it...

[RobochangerEX]

Okay.... this is really very simple. The world of Big O is a story... a story created for our entertainment.... the stage is set and the actors play thier roles.
The thing that makes the Big O story telling different is that it is literally happening.... the characters are aware of reality... and they just can't make sence of it. They are fictional, yet real.... not flesh and blood... but real in that they know they exist.

So there are no real memories beyond the boundries of the story... which is why they are confused... because to them everything is real, so the past must exist... but it doesn't.

No one in Big O is aware that they are characters..... and that they are playing thier roles for our entertainment. They exist only for us to watch.

If you think about it... this series should have been called " The Forth Wall ".

[eyager]

We need an Aqua Teen where Shake and crew watch Big O.

H'mm a parody of Mystery Science Theater 3000.

[MJC]

If there's another season, I think they should change the POV shown. I'd say either...

1. A prequel (maybe from Gordon Rosewater's POV)
2. A sequel but in the POV of someone outside of the show

[Tim Vee]

...The Hell?!

I think that what they were trying to do here is what was done in Grant Morrison's final issue of Animal Man: fictional characters realize that they're fictional. That being said, I preferred Grant's version of this theme to Big O's.

BTW, if you're curious about the issue in question, it was recently collected in the "Animal Man: Deus Ex Machina" TPB.

[Killtacular]

How about the show being watched by Faye Valentine?

I'm not sure what's still hard to get.

"Metropolis" is a TV show pitched to some FOX-like network by Angel. I assume it's a FOX-like network because only FOX would approve of such a bizarre reality show.

Noone in the Metropolis universe is real. The fact that Roger can "bleed" is merely good technology. A way to keep Roger from realizing the truth. That he is nothing but a disposable actor in a long line of Rogers that have failed to make it to the end of Angel's script. Because the robots in Metropolis are designed to be human and make mistakes.

If something goes against Angel's script, she can always wipe everything out and start over.

There is no such thing as an event that happened 40 years ago. That was a red herring. It's the premise of the series that Angel pitched to the network, but whatever event happened "40 years ago" (according to the script), is NOT what caused people to lose their memories.

Perhaps the original goal of Metropolis was to be a constantly episodic tale. Much like Batman: The Animated Series, which didn't have one long running arc but the "rogue's gallery" style of storytelling.

But then Roger broke away from his script. But robots can be controlled. We know what happened when Roger climbed down beneath the subways, reaching the tunnel that would lead to the secret rooms used for filming the fake memories, as well as (what I'm guesing was) either a prototype design of the city pitched to the network or a previous incarnation of the city that was 'swept under the rug', so to speak. He had that panic attack. But he's never felt fear before! But naturally, that's because he is being programmed to fear what exists outside of his role's parameters.

So, how is the Angel in the storyline like the Angel in the real world? They aren't. Step outside of the box for a second.

Angel is the creator/writer of the show. Like any generic writer these days, Angel feels she has to self-insert herself into the story. But Paradigm City seems to just be computer imagery. Angel can't actually be IN the show nor live in the show through a host, because the food people eat isn't real. She would have no way to sustain herself, and besides the fact, she has to oversee the production of the show, which is too demanding a job to forsake.

So consider this.

You know how Max Payne is based off of a developer from the software company that made it? It's true. Quite eerie, really, seeing Max Payne's face in real life, in a company photo.

Roger Smith, Dorothy, Angel, they're all in the control room of the show, but they're not the same Roger Smith, Dorothy, or Angel you see IN the show.

The Roger Smith of "Metropolis" is BASED off of a real life persona but NOT that person. The same can be said for Dorothy. And Norman (who knows way too much about what's going on not to be involved somehow).

So who is Roger Smith in real life? Who knows. Maybe he's a producer. Or just a good friend of Angel's. Or perhaps more.

Dorothy? An intern, of course.

And the Angel in the show bares only a visual similarity to the real Angel, and nothing more. Just another character. One could say she's the Dues-Ex Machina of the show (as if the Bigs themselves aren't Dues Exes).


People already explained what happened to previous Rogers, so I won't touch on that.

But there is more than just multiple Rogers.

There are multiple Becks too. You can't deny it.

There are multiple Dorothys. One who was nothing more than a simple daughter in the original version of Metropolis... one who was an assassin... and the R Dorothy that befriends Rogers Smith.

The rest of the civilians in Metropolis remain the same from revision to revision, but, taking a page from the classic sci-fi film (that the Matrix plagarized), Dark City, everyone is given new jobs and identities as Angel sees fit, unless the characters are too important to throw away.

This is what Roger briefly sees. I don't even want to know how he's able to see the memories of previous Rogers (bad writing on Sunrise's part, I imagine). But of course, episode 14 takes place in one of the earliest incarnations of Metropolis. Before Roger became the star. Where life was normal and there were no bizarre supervillains. The "pilot" episode of Metropolis, you could say.

I'm not sure how characters experience dejavu through previous robots' actions, but they do. Dan Dustin is scripted to kill the Winter Night Phantom again and again. Somehow this is broadcasted in a small theater. Another mystery I hope gets elaborated on. Is there a mole in Metropolis? Someone dashing about trying to reveal the phony nature of the show's universe? It's possible. Schwartzvald? Wouldn't doubt it.

Heavens Day? Obviously Angel had the same problem with her network that Big O had with Toonami. So she had to come up with a similar but not identical holiday for the townspeople to celebrate.

Tomatoes? Nothing to do with anything. Red herring. Or rather, a part of Angel's script that has nothing to do with the fact that Metropolis is just a television show.

The other Rosewaters? Perhaps Alex is Angel's brother in real life. And Gordon is Angel's father. She must harbor some resentment towards them, which is why Alex is the greedy, immature villain of the series, and Gordon the simple-minded dolt who lets Alex walk all over him.

But Angel gets to be the spy, the cool character who gets everywhere and packs a lot of style. Obviously Angel Rosewater thinks very highly of herself to make her character "cool", but such is the nature of self-insertion.

I think that pretty much covers all the bases. Still a couple of questions remain but not that many. Schwartzvald remains the biggest mystery. Is he human? Is he a robot who went rogue in the original script but was unable to be 'erased' by Big Venus? Hmmmmm.

[silkpimp]

I loved the ending. It all seems to just be a t.v. show. Everything getting rewinded back to the beginning. I can't believe how much people actually want a 3rd season. I knew that there was no way all of the questions would get answered. This is a lot like Evangelion. I remember reading an interview with Anno the creator and he kept getting asked about the end of eva and what it all meant. He said that you can't have everything handed to you. Wasn't this show originally supposed to be 26 episodes. I don't want to see another 26 episodes of the same thing and the same fights. Maybe a prequel in the form of a movie or a ova but no more tv episodes, it would just get repetitive. If this is how Chiaki wanted it to end then CN don't order any more episodes move on to something else.

[Kinel Ozoa]

http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/SM2.jpghttp://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO Week 13/SM1.jpg

I am also not sure what the heck just happened. Will the show go on? I am not sure what they could put into a third season of Big O. It would be interesting to see what they do come up with though. Gah, I really wanted to see Roger and Dorothy relationship turn into something more romantic... ah well. I did enjoy that line where Roger asks Dorothy if she could have given him mouth-to-mouth instead of crushing that air tank. :D

That Stripe stunt they pulled was kinda funny. I am glad I didn't stop recording and change the channel out of disgust though, which I really wanted to do when I saw that pop up.

Its late here, so gonna post a boat load of screen caps. Total came out around 67 or so, thus this post will be pretty long :sweat:

Also I would like to take the time out and say hey it was a great show and I did enjoy making screen caps for this series. I'm gonna miss making em.

[edit] Strange thought. I wonder if those mass produced Roger Smiths were created for the fans of Angel's Big O show. *shurg* Ah, me go sleep now.

(Didn't want to fill up the page with all the links)

Sampo you rock! Thanks for all the pictures you'v posted throughout this season! Someone give this guy a medal!

Am I the only one who thought seeing Big Ear like that with the terminater red eye was sorta creepy? I still liked it though. To a point I mean. Seems all the characters needed a bit more closure to me.

Oh yeah, I withdraw my last statement abotu Gordon being a reminder for the directer now that I've had some time to sleep on it. Just doesn't make sense now with having slept on it. Why would a human sticky note want to change the way things went in the show?

I'll probably post more later when my minds working again..

[Karl Olson]

If this is how Chiaki wanted it to end then CN don't order any more episodes move on to something else.

The thing is, we don't know whether Chiaki Konaka had a third season in mind. There certainly is the possiblity or having a radically different 3rd season. The question is would their be much point to it, other blantantly raming the "reality" of Paradigm down our collective throats. I think Matt has nailed the physical truth of Paradigm's nature, existence and reason for being (my Big O rants are more, uh, metaphysical or something ;).) All that would be left is for them to leave the super dome (Is it even a dome? Or is it just holographic stage? I'm not sure at the moment,) and meet themselves, the real version of themselves.

Something so blantant doesn't sound like something Konaka would write, but I'm sure he could come with some way of making it darn interesting.

[eyager]

How about the show being watched by Faye Valentine?

I'm not sure what's still hard to get.

"Metropolis" is a TV show pitched to some FOX-like network by Angel. I assume it's a FOX-like network because only FOX would approve of such a bizarre reality show.

Perhaps the original goal of Metropolis was to be a constantly episodic tale. Much like Batman: The Animated Series, which didn't have one long running arc but the "rogue's gallery" style of storytelling.



I think the Big O draws inspiration from the two actual films named metropolis.

One is a black and white film from 1927, about a futuristic city where robots have taken over.

http://www.kino.com/metropolis/

The second is an anime.

From IMDB

Metropolis is a story of how important emotions are and how they separate humans from everything else. The movie follows a young boy, his uncle (a private investigator) The story is set in the far future where humans and robots live together, unfortunately not in harmony. Many robots are forced underground and are terminated for entering unauthorized areas, they are moreless servants to humankind. The plot starts to unfold as the boy meets a robot named Tima and they get in all kinds of trouble as the movie progresses. Never a dull moment when you've got a robot by your side.

[Sisto Kid]

OK, note to self:

1. Don't watch the final episode of "Big O" at 2:00 am after you've come home inebriated.

2. DEFINITELY don't watch the final episode of "Big O" if you are inebriated AND drowsy...

What just happened here? And can anyone tell me if the "tomato" question got answered in this episode? (an innocent question, no flaming or sarcasm, or I will send my rabid sock puppets to devour your spleen :p )

STILL love this show,...

Sisto

[Killtacular]

The concept of tomatoes seems like something Angel wrote into the Metropolis script for the charatcers to discover, but it doesn't have anything to do with the reality of Paradigm City. We won't exactly know unless a third season is made.

[RedTail]

I always wanted to post the licence plate on Roger's car. So there.

R-33... 33rd incarnation? Can you post an earlier picture of his license plate if you have one? It would be interesting to see if he has the R-33 license plate through the entire series.

[PaQ]

Saw the finale, still confused..

That whole fake stripes beginning almost threw me.. I was getting pissed but didn't think they would play the same show instead... I was relieved when they started the real thing.
Big O just looked funky without that helmet thing.

Overall an A. I forgot a lot of things from last nights show but it was still great. I thought it was just bad that they ended it like that..

[Sisto Kid]

The concept of tomatoes seems like something Angel wrote into the Metropolis script for the charatcers to discover, but it doesn't have anything to do with the reality of Paradigm City. We won't exactly know unless a third season is made.


OK...thanx, Matt.

And as for a third season, here's hoping. The second season only happened because enough people (specifically Cartoon Network) made enough noise to where the Japanese producers were practically forced to make more.

Don't know how much this will help, but...


SEASON 3!SEASON 3!SEASON 3!!!

[JohnCrichton]

Thanks for the explanation, Matt. Definately better than your, "Everybody's stupid, but me" first explanation.

Still... I'm disappointed. Feels a little too close to "it was all a dream" to me. Not to mention for a show like this, I really wanted a Sherlock Holmes wrap-up. Where the intelligent main character figures it all out and spells it out step by step and points out all the clues to show that all the randomness actually does make complete and total sense.

This ending... it feels made up. Something that the director put together at the end to string all the random images together he put out.

I hope there's a third something, cuz this just really left me unsatisfied. -_-

[Patches]

There is no such thing as an event that happened 40 years ago. That was a red herring. It's the premise of the series that Angel pitched to the network, but whatever event happened "40 years ago" (according to the script), is NOT what caused people to lose their memories.
Sure there was an "event". It's when the timeline of the show began. What happened before 40 years prior to the present doesn't concern the present storyline, so it was never written.

Ever seen "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead"? There's a joke in that movie based on: "No one knows where Rosencrantz and Guildenstern came from. The king just said, 'fetch me Rosencrantz and Guildenstern', and *poof*, they exist."

Like in any TV show, you never have the WHOLE history of a character. Only what's important. Therefore these "missing memories" are simply aspects of the characters that the creator never bothered to write. Say you're watching any other show. Does it go into what was going on 40 years before the timeframe of the show? No. Do you care? Not usually. Is it relevant? Not usually. Therefore, as far as the characters in the show are concerned, 40 years ago never existed.

[PearlRose86]

I'm not exactly sure what to make of the ending.

The explinations tossed about on the thread so far make a certian amount of sense, but I feel a little... slighted, I suppose.

When I first watched the episode, I really thought it was a mind throw, an attempt to put the pieces together in some way that looked okay.

After a bit of thought, and a read through these 11 pages so far, I think I understand. That doesn't mean I like it. But I don't hate it, either.

I'm not really confused, but I still feel something's missing. Anwsers about the tomatoes would have been nice, and I still am trying to get used to the fact Angel's writer/producer/director or something like that. I guess I just feel a little annoyed the cycle's starting over... with a few changes. I'd like another season, just to see how everything will come together, and Schwarzvald's role in all of this... acting.


Like in any TV show, you never have the WHOLE history of a character. Only what's important. Therefore these "missing memories" are simply aspects of the characters that the creator never bothered to write. Say you're watching any other show. Does it go into what was going on 40 years before the timeframe of the show? No. Do you care? Not usually. Is it relevant? Not usually. Therefore, as far as the characters in the show are concerned, 40 years ago never existed.I never thought about it that way. When I make up characters, I like to give them really through histories. But really, how much of that actually gets used? Not most of it, I bet. We only get to see the stuff the writers deem important. And even the writers mess up that once in a while. Can't think of one off the top of my head, but condradictions in a character's history do show up occasionally in TV shows.


-Maggie

[Pimmelmann]

I'm not sure what's still hard to get.

There is no such thing as an event that happened 40 years ago. That was a red herring. It's the premise of the series that Angel pitched to the network, but whatever event happened "40 years ago" (according to the script), is NOT what caused people to lose their memories.

This is what Roger briefly sees. I don't even want to know how he's able to see the memories of previous Rogers (bad writing on Sunrise's part, I imagine).

Chalking up the (repeatedly stated) entire premise of the series about memories being passed on and defining identity to "bad writing" seems like a glib analysis to me.

The head writer is quite sure there was an Event and gives its exact date and some other information about it in the companion book to the series.

The suggestion is that the Event is left a mystery and may be dealt with if there is any more Big O.

[Umino]

I just rewatched the JP version of episode 26. Some things were strangely edited.

During the first 'flashback' scene, two 'BIG O' heads were redrawn ino Artchtype (sp?) heads.

Just something I found very strange...

[Infinity Blade]

The suggestion is that the Event is left a mystery and may be dealt with if there is any more Big O.

Well, if it happened (and I'm in the category of people that thinks it DID), we've already seen what was most likely the catalyst for the Event. Namely, the winged shadow of Big Venus over a burning New York City.

[SSJPabs]

I never thought about it that way. When I make up characters, I like to give them really through histories. But really, how much of that actually gets used?Yes but unless those backstories are created, an author doesn't really know where a character is coming from so in a way while it's not used its always exerting an influence.

While Matt idea is likely the truth if there is no season 3, there are still many interesting options than can be explored.

Interestingly, Paradigm city does indeed bear a resemblance to Fritz Lang's Metropolis (classic!).

[William C. Maune]

If it was just a TV show, why would it restart again and again? Production costs would be enormous and viewers would get bored after awhile.

[Killtacular]

It doesn't cost a fortune to restart the show. Only a very small percentage of the population is seriously damaged over the course of the series and need to be repaired/replaced.

[Big D'oh]

R-33... 33rd incarnation? Can you post an earlier picture of his license plate if you have one? It would be interesting to see if he has the R-33 license plate through the entire series.

It's always been R-33, even the license plate decal on the kit says that, so it's pretty official. Nice idea though : )

On a related note, I *believe* it was this site:

http://www.sixfortyfive.com/bigo/wtf/index.html

that actually found the year The Event ocurred: 2018. This apparently was translated from the Official Big O Guidebook. If the event never ocurred, as Matt and some others have theorised, why would the creators have an official date for it?

[SSJPabs]

While it might not cost a whole lot to reset the show, the animators (if it's animated) or the actors (if it's live action) would have to do a show that's very similar yet a little different. The production costs of either would still be quite high, for the returns.

Law of diminishing return.

[EroSennin]

Big O ****!

God thats confusing. So Rogers not Batman, hes Neo from the Matrix? Now lets hope for Season 3 so we can get even more confused.

Edit: Oh and that WS joke was not funny. I was watching the episode last night saw it was ep 20 and turned it off. Luckily I Tivo it and watched it this morning when saw posts

[Duke]

Hmm, perhaps Konaka was planning a 26 episode story back when Big O first came out, but when CN stepped in, he had some new ideas in order to extend it to a third season.

[Teek]

I don't think cost is a factor in a room that can pretty much create and destroy matter at will like Big Venus was doing...

But I don't subscribe to the theory it is a show anyway. I just think Angel happens to be running things this time around. If there was an event and people lost their memories, I think I can come up with a reason as to why everything keeps repeating itself. Look at it this way, if say starting in the year 1200 everyone forgot their memories, would we today have a better chance to remember what happened? No way, if the original people who forgot were to create a system whereby the people could relive the last chunk of time over and over again and introduce some of the memories over and over again, perhaps one of those times the real memories would finally be unlocked and they could move on. Here in Big O the world was about to be wiped again but Angel decided to let thing stand as they were and keep going. The message being the memories may not even matter in the end, the people are who they choose to be, the can leave the roles that were apparently set up for them by the system.

Going off that if they do make a season 3 I would like to see everyone choose to leave the memory recollection sim world and return outside. Meaning of course that they aren't holograms and that the Paradigm creating room itself can create and destroy matter on whim. Which would allow Roger, Dorothy and the rest to be real beings. How about this? They all walk outside the sim-world room and are greeted by a bunch of Bigs? ;)

[William C. Maune]

I don't see any reason why some depicted events can't be metaphorical, or whatever you want to call it; most of episode 14 was.

[Big D'oh]

Hmm, perhaps Konaka was planning a 26 episode story back when Big O first came out, but when CN stepped in, he had some new ideas in order to extend it to a third season.

Don't series creators often allow for certain amount of expandibility in their show pitches? I'm sure that as a matter of course, anime writers have to routinely allow for the creation of additional story material should the show be a monster hit and the sponsors and studio request additional seasons. Conversely, I'm sure they have to think of ways to collapse their material should the show be cancelled prematurely. It wouldn't surprise me if Konaka and crew saw the Big O as a 52 episode series ala' the golden age of Sunrise 52-ep shows from decades past.

[Mynd Hed]

Anybody happen to notice how I haven't been particularly active in these threads lately? I'd pop in with a comment or two on somebody else's pet theory, or maybe to clarify something when someone was confused (especially as regards Asimov-- good ol' Asimov!) but I haven't been doing any long, in-depth episode reviews for quite a while. There's a reason for that.
See, over the last month or two, I've been having this sneaking suspicion. I wanted to deny it, because I loved the first season so much, but more and more, I just couldn't escape the conclusion that the second season, well... kinda sucks.
But I kept on telling myself, "Don't jump to conclusions, this season has so much more continuity between episodes, you won't really be able to judge it until you've seen the whole thing."
Well, now I have, and unless somebody is going to chime in with an explanation for everything that's radically different than the one I've got and all the ones I've read in this thread... I was right. The second season had its moments, but on the whole, it really did kinda suck.
I'm going to go watch my first season DVDs again and try to forget that all this ever happened.

[ClockStomper]

It's pretty clear the first 13 episodes were a legitimate attempt at a story, wherehas the next 13 were "screw it, we ourselves don't remember all the loose ends, so let's get freaky!"

Yeah, yeah, I get the "Reloaded" thing, but it dosen't really seem to jive with where they were really going, so much of the story before this contridicts the ending. I did find it interesting was saw Big Ear as robot, since he was the exposition machine that sent Roger out on all the season 1 adventures.

Bah, at least the picked a method of copping out that says since it was all scripted anyway, all the contridictory stuff can be side-stepped. It just seems like before this "reset the loop" ending, there was an ending that was going to happen within the context of the Big O universe without some prevailing, outside force stepping in. Alex was talking about how he was going to make the event happen again, the union planes (an army of Big Duos?) were set to hit the city, etc. I wish we could have seen the "scripted" ending.

[kaine23]

Did they ever explain Big Ear??

[Namuh]

I'm satisfied because I understand nearly everything that went on. I don't want to see another season. If they want to make any more Big O things, then just do an OVA or movie, but no more tv series.

Everything seemed to have been repeating itself. Now, I'm figuring all those Bigs you saw in the flashbacks were not all there at the same time. They were 1000s of flashbacks going on at once, but it looked like it was the same time because the same thing happened every time, Roger lost. Remember the flashback where you saw him in a police uniform while piloting Big O? Did you noticed the seen when Roger was sinking into the ocean of him seeing himself dead in the ocean? He made the choice to live, thus breaking the same cycle that would repeat itself continuously. Big Venus came in and basically did RESET on the world, but because Roger was there to know who the pilot was, he was able to stop it to change things. Angel and Dorothy would be there from the beginning because he wants to remember them no matter what, and only rely on the present and future. Things will go on differently, while events will happened similar. That means Alan, Alex, and Schwartzwald may have the chance to come back. Beck seemed to know what was going on, and he was having fun because Roger chose to live on and fight.

Basically Paradigm is destined to be destroyed and rebuilt in an endless cycle, but Roger seems to have finally broken the circle from happening exactly as it did before.

I've read eveyone's post here(all 11 pages)and they change my whole way of thinking about Big O.The post that clicked in my head and said this does make sense though is the one above,that and the one about perhaps in every new loop there is a different person chosen to rebuild the city as they see fit.First it was Gordan Rosewater then it was Angel Rosewater(which probably was her name all along it was just never mentioned) and maybe it was supposed to be Alex Rosewater next.Like a couple of other people here I don't think the events in series are a show,but just a unique way of interpertating what was happening.I don't think the creator of Big O was saying that the other 25 episodes don't matter,it's just that they're finally getting a continuation.I do admit It would be nice to have a third season,but they really don't need one.

One question was that Schawartz's whole name?Maybe he too played a part in one of the cycles and was looking to once again be God ( :confused: ),but of course couldn't happen because Angel was in charge this time around.

[Neo-Era]

Still... I'm disappointed. Feels a little too close to "it was all a dream" to me. Not to mention for a show like this, I really wanted a Sherlock Holmes wrap-up. Where the intelligent main character figures it all out and spells it out step by step and points out all the clues to show that all the randomness actually does make complete and total sense.


Don't think it'll happen. The Japanese are much more comfortable with things not being explained in a clear-cut fashion than Americans are. See the remake of The Ring versus the original version.

[PickHut]

That joke at the beginning was hilarious! When I saw Act 20: Stripes appear on screen I was really disappointed but then realized they just went into the episode without showing a card or the intro so I thought it had to be a joke.

As for the episode itself, I thought it was great. The fight between Big and Big Fau was cool from beginning to anti climatic end and the whole episode just had you at the edge of your sit as to what was going to happen next. The music playing was great as usual playing at the appropriate moments. I give The Show Must Go On an A.

As for what I thought about the ending.....er....um......well I thought...............that Dorothy should of been under water more often.........yeah, that's my theory. :p

[RobochangerEX]

I don't see any reason why some depicted events can't be metaphorical, or whatever you want to call it; most of episode 14 was.
Well that's the whole point really... all the characters are metaphors for some idea.

That's why it bugs me that people are saying Angel is some how involved in the creation of the show... or that she is the only real person. Infact she is no different than any other character.

She represents the history and conciencness of the characters..... there overall need to know... and fear of the truth. Angel is a plot device used by the story teller.

Oh the about the loop thing... it's called going into re-runs. ;)

[oranthal]

Okay, after watching ep. 26 and reading all these posts, my head hurts.

So for now, I'll just say that Angel is hot; she has long, shapely legs that I would love to have wrapped around my waist.

[The Landstander]

So for now, I'll just say that Angel is hot; she has long, shapely legs that I would love to have wrapped around my waist.And in the end, isn't that what The Big O was all about?

[SSJPabs]

And in the end, isn't that what The Big O was all about?You know, I guess so.

Neo-Era there's a difference between leaving things ambiguous and a whole lot of nothing.

[Conekiller]

Good Explanation, Wilson. there may be hope for you yet. ^__^



On a related note, I *believe* it was this site:

http://www.sixfortyfive.com/bigo/wtf/index.html

that actually found the year The Event ocurred: 2018. This apparently was translated from the Official Big O Guidebook. If the event never ocurred, as Matt and some others have theorised, why would the creators have an official date for it?

Becuase within the show within the show (which I'll call "Joe Dominus", once again) needs to have a certain ammount of concrete info that the writers can fall back on whne they need to advance the plot/ kep viewership up.

The one thing I find odd is that the characters seemed to be either a) robots (like the mass produced Rogers) [that would mean Dorothy and the Bigs are robots among robots :confused: ] b) "actors" in a holographic projection
or c) actual cartoons (the character model sheet snad maquette of Dorothy, for instance, wouldn't be needed for actors, but maybe for the robot-actor theory)


I did kinda wish they'd explain what the hints they've been dropping throughout "Joe Dominus" meant in the sceme of things, like the waves of Megadueses and original Big Venus incident. But i cna live with the ending we got.


here's a better explanation for all you haters out there: Roger died at the onset of ep 14 and Angel goes berserk and seson 2 is her mind trying in vain to find happiness.

Once again, Sampo, you and your screen caps rule!

A+ for all.

[William C. Maune]

Oh the about the loop thing... it's called going into re-runs. ;)

Ah, but the events at the "beginning" weren't quite the same this time around. Dorothy and Angel were already seen, and standing together, as Roger drives by.

[Conekiller]

and him not having a watch too.....

[RobochangerEX]

Ah, but the events at the "beginning" weren't quite the same this time around. Dorothy and Angel were already seen, and standing together, as Roger drives by.

You missed my point... it was a representation of Re-runs... not that it was actually happening. Haveing Dorothy and Angel apear was more or less a curtain call.... or a wink to the audiance.

[HumanoidTyphoon]

The first few pages of the thread reminded me of FLCL thread a lot of "what just happened". I thought this was one of the few episodes in season 2 that made sense for the most part.:shrug: I immediately thought of the Matrix (maybe just because the next one is coming so soon) like Matt Wilson did. After reading all the theories here I’m not really sure what to think. I’ll have to watch this again.

The trick at the beginning if it would have went a few more seconds I would've fast fowarded right past it.:sweat:

[DianaGohan]

You know, after thinking long and hard about, I've come to realize that the ending isn't like The Matrix Revolutions, it isn't waxing philosphy about Shakesphere, it's something that I'm surprised no one else has noticed:

It's South Park's "Cancelled" Episode.

Think about it: Characters find themselves doing something like they were doing, and then it's revealed that they're stage is just a giant reality TV show for them to operate on. And that it's happen over and over again, but this time would be the one to end it all, if it wasn't "restarted" in a sense with everyone's memories erased. It's nothing more and nothing less. Just an idea of a reality show gone bad. It's message: Why waste you're time viewing others life when your's has much more purpose.

(Note: I can go more indepthed about this if you want to discuss it).

[Spike Mcdougal]

Okay, after watching ep. 26 and reading all these posts, my head hurts.

So for now, I'll just say that Angel is hot; she has long, shapely legs that I would love to have wrapped around my waist.

Heh I hear you on that one ;)

[Zach Logan]

70 Screencaps (http://asu.caffeineanime.com/crap/)

[G1Ravage]

Questions:

What exactly was Paradigm City, besides just a "stage"? It had spotlights high above and everything, but then Big Venus shows up and suddenly everything goes all VR as if it was computer generated, and in the process of being erased. If so, where are the people in the outside world? "Outside the stage"? Or watching on TV screens?

And what was the purpose of Angel within the show? She wasn't exactly human or robotic, with those angelic scars on her back. And what about Gordon Rosewater?

And if everyone's a robot, why did Roger nearly suffocate?

[Killtacular]

And if everyone's a robot, why did Roger nearly suffocate?
For the same reason why Roger can bleed..

If they didn't build these robots to function like real humans do, they would all too easily find out what they really are.

Also, don't forget that Roger was holding his breath for several minutes, and talking to Big O as well, all while submerged...

[UberMonkey]

Man, that was pretty crazy. But very awesome. :D Very interesting to read everyone's theories. Has anyone else tried inverting Sampo's pics of Big Venus? I think that may be what DemonKrowno did, but whatever that's supposed to be doesn't work for me. (I figure it's supposed an image of some sort, since it mentions Photoshop at the top.. Is it just an image with a .txt extension?) But, dang, Venus looks very creepy when properly colored.

At this point I'm not sure if I'd really want another season. I would definetely like some things explained (i.e., oh, the BIGS?! Can we get some more information on their purpose, where they came from, etc? Are they actually cognizant?), but if we're just supposed to be left with that the cycle has restarted, but things will be different, I don't think a whole 'nother season is necessary if most of the series is going through the same processes. So maybe an OVA or a Movie as some as mentioned.

[Big D'oh]

Good Explanation, Wilson. there may be hope for you yet. ^__^

Quote:
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Originally Posted by Big D'oh
On a related note, I *believe* it was this site:

http://www.sixfortyfive.com/bigo/wtf/index.html

that actually found the year The Event ocurred: 2018. This apparently was translated from the Official Big O Guidebook. If the event never ocurred, as Matt and some others have theorised, why would the creators have an official date for it?
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Becuase within the show within the show (which I'll call "Joe Dominus", once again) needs to have a certain ammount of concrete info that the writers can fall back on whne they need to advance the plot/ kep viewership up.

Nah. Seeing how this information had absolutely NO impact on the episodes we've seen, why would you actually need a date? It would be wholly unnecessary. They NEVER fell back on this information during the course of the show. Unless this date has an impact on a portion of the story we have yet to see...

This thread reminds me of two weeks ago, when everyone was talking about the logistics and construction of the superdome, something that eventually became ephemeral in the last episode. Now everyone's hot about how Roger and co. are probably all androids, holograms, what have you. Bet you anything that if there's a third season most theories on this thread will go the way of that ol' superdome...

[NeueZielZeon]

This is what Roger briefly sees. I don't even want to know how he's able to see the memories of previous Rogers (bad writing on Sunrise's part, I imagine). But of course, episode 14 takes place in one of the earliest incarnations of Metropolis. Before Roger became the star.

I've always assumed that the reason Roger sees the memories of his "past lives" because they are still in Big O's memory. From the fact that characters such as Alex and Schwarzwald explain that Megadeus's hold the key to past memories, it seems like their memories are the only ones that are not wiped clean after every time Venus rewinds society.

I'm just assuming that the Rogers of the past had also used the same Big O (though in the flashbacks, there was the mass horde of Big O's, and you can't forget that one of the Rogers was shown dead in Big O, but it could probably be repaired). And it doesn't seem that Angel's television show is called "Metropolis", as the poster that is breifly shown in the background near the end of the episode is an actual poster of The Big O, and it even says that on it (you can see the poster on one of Sampo's screenshots: http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/BigO%20Week%2013/63.jpg). Either that, or the current season of a show called "Metropolis" could have the subtitle of "The Big O" (As in Metropolis: The Big O).

Aside from that, I'm kinda convinced that the one helping to build the androids used in the series is Timothy Wayneright.

[Sheamon]

Was watching the Matrix last night on TBS when I conveniently fell asleep around 10:30. Imagine how happy I was when I woke up 2 hours later, realizing I missed the finale! Was really upset there for a while but despite the fact that the schedule said Family Guy would be on at 2 AM I set the VCR and luckily for me they repeated it. Missed the beginning, anything having to do with Stripes and Big Ear being an android (which was spoiled for me a few weeks ago anyway) but caught the rest. I don't really have any big complaints, I give it an A. Matt Wilson explained things perfectly, the show answers pretty much all the big questions and resolves things pretty well although there is the occasional thing like Schwartzvald that they missed. I don't really care about a season 3. If they make it, great, there's the chance to handle the Schwartzvald thing and others. If not, thats a good enough ending for me that I don't need anything else.

As for the season as a whole, I'm not really sure how to rate it yet compared to the first. Haven't rewatched any episode outside of Stripes when they replayed it so I'll need to refresh things. I can say though that there was 2 major dissappointments; the first being the music which not only lacked any major breakthroughs but also stopped using some of my favorites from the first season; the second being the continued use of 'To Be Continued' rather than We Have Come to Terms/No Side. Animation and dub were very nice, so was the mecha design, etc... Its been a blast watching the last 14 weeks.

[talibancity]

What I'd like to know (although we may never really know), is if this was the path that the show's creators had originally intended when they first created the show. When they first created it, did they plan on Angel being in charge of this TV show? And the whole city gets reversed every 40 years? Did they plan this out, cuz otherwise their may be a few plot contradictions in the first 13 episodes if they didnt' know the ending when they first created the show.

[Conekiller]

Nah. Seeing how this information had absolutely NO impact on the episodes we've seen, why would you actually need a date? It would be wholly unnecessary. They NEVER fell back on this information during the course of the show. Unless this date has an impact on a portion of the story we have yet to see...


I meant in reference to Angel as the director of "Joe Dominus" that info needed to be made concrete (for the writers) as a JUST IN CASE.

the same applies for the real life writers who wrote the Big O for us, the fans.

you'd be surprised how much stuff is written about your favorite shows that never actually find their way into the actual show.

[SSJPabs]

"Joe Dominus?"

That's an instant classic. I love that. I prefer to think of Paradigm City as real and existing as more than a TV show because I want a 3rd season.

[Umino]

Noone in the Metropolis universe is real. The fact that Roger can "bleed" is merely good technology. A way to keep Roger from realizing the truth. That he is nothing but a disposable actor in a long line of Rogers that have failed to make it to the end of Angel's script. Because the robots in Metropolis are designed to be human and make mistakes.

Ok, so if everyone in Big O is a robot, and don'st know about it...then..how does that explain 'Missing Cat'?

Eugene used human beings to create 'his own beings'. He obvious use 'human meat' to create dogs, cat, etc. How could he have done that with machines? If they were really machines, he would have found out. And thus, he wouldn't be able to 'create'.

[Teek]

Hmm, I think the existance of the stage lights high above the domes only helps to go that this ISN'T a show. Look at it this way, had that actually been the ceiling the the use of huge lights is understandable to illuminate the world below. However, that proved to be fake as well as it was a creation of the sim world. Now why need a fake stage light ceiling inside a room which can create total artificiality? Why not just create a fake sun to go through the sky, thereby eliminating the need for the huge ceiling and stage lights all together? Or even looking at it like this, when Big Venus was beginning to wipe Paradigm from existance did you notice how the real ceiling and floor were very illluminated? How hard would it be for that thing to create fake night and day just by itself without creating a ceiling of stage lights? Even using stage lights you run the risk of them falling like they did towards the end, why even bother with that potentiality? That make sense to anyone? Just one more thing that leads me to think maybe a previous operator of the world got a little carried away and constructed it to resemble a TV show when that wasn't even necessary, Gordon perhaps? Thinking themselves a director of the city of Paradigm when they reset everything in an attempt to help regain the real memories.

Edit: Just another note, the sim-room seems to have an excellent ability to alter the perception of depth. I don't think anyone in the series ever went below the actual floor even when Roger went underground and when Big O was falling underwater at the end of episode 26. Because of that it seems like it would be easy to create a fake sky and sun to exist high above the domes instead of a ceiling of lights.

Also think of the Truman Show, do you think if the producers would have had the ability to create a full realized fake sky they would still use the stage lights as they did? Heck no they wouldn't use those for risk they would fall like they did, why bother when you could simulate the real thing with ease?

[talibancity]

Hmm. Has anyone read the episode summary for episode 26 on adultswim.com.

In the Big O and Big Fau battle, Big Fau's immense and superior powers push Big O to the limit. Dorothy, sensing that Roger is in danger, suddenly becomes conscious from her deep sleep and saves Roger from defeat. Angel and Gordon enter into another dimension to return to a life with certainty... that is, a life without missing memories. I never realized the alternate dimension. I guess that is what happened, or at least in the eye's of AS, who probably heard that first hand from Sunrise. If that is true, Angel and Gordon return to the "real world" outside the show (Truman stepping through the door outside of the dome), leaving everyone else in the "fake world" of Paradigm City.

[Teek]

Maybe we should break into "Big O is a TV show within a TV show" and "Big O is fake world thinking it's in a TV show withing a TV show" camps... Sign me up for the second... Or maybe I should create a poll...

[Teek]

Wow talibancity, that's a possibility I hadn't even considered, not even sure how that would work. I wonder if WS got that from Sunrise...

[Sheamon]

What I'd like to know (although we may never really know), is if this was the path that the show's creators had originally intended when they first created the show. When they first created it, did they plan on Angel being in charge of this TV show? And the whole city gets reversed every 40 years? Did they plan this out, cuz otherwise their may be a few plot contradictions in the first 13 episodes if they didnt' know the ending when they first created the show.

Many things tie back to stuff from the very beginning, like Roger Smith's first conversation with Big Ear, of course the Sybil Rowan stuff, Angel's scars, the underground city in episode 4, the multiple Dorothy's, and so on... They did an awfully good job if they just pulled this ending out of thin air. This site explains things better with tieing stuff from season 1 to later things:

http://www.sixfortyfive.com/bigo/wtf/index.html

One interesting thing I noticed from that site (doesn't really have anything to do with the quote anymore) is that Big Venus is Lucifer and that Angel literally is the Fallen Angel.

[Neo-Era]

Neo-Era there's a difference between leaving things ambiguous and a whole lot of nothing.

Doesn't make a difference with what I was saying. Someone wished they had wrapped things up with a straightforward, logical, A-to-B-to-C explanation so I pointed out that the Japanese are fine without having things done this way therefore it's doubtful we'll see that kind of resolution later. Whether or not this particular ending amounted up to "a whole lot of nothing" is a separate issue.

[Big D'oh]

I meant in reference to Angel as the director of "Joe Dominus" that info needed to be made concrete (for the writers) as a JUST IN CASE.

the same applies for the real life writers who wrote the Big O for us, the fans.

you'd be surprised how much stuff is written about your favorite shows that never actually find their way into the actual show.

Oh, I understand that, believe me. Many writers in all mediums often load up on the backstory for their characters, locales, and situations, with only a small degree of said backstory actually shining through in the actually story.

But, we are of course both assuming things about this quote from the book, as well as Angel's supposed position as the director (and writer?). Is the quote from the book excerpted from material that the Sunrise writers fashioned for the "Red Herring" historical fabrication for the supposed "Joe Dominus" show? Or is it in fact a part of what they themselves see as a part of an "actual" Big O chronology? We really need more of a context for the quote, obviously.

Of course, that quote comes from the same site that recently translated Konaka referring to Big Venus as "Big Venus/Lucifer". We REALLY need to get a US publisher to translate that damn book!

[Big D'oh]

Many things tie back to stuff from the very beginning, like Roger Smith's first conversation with Big Ear, of course the Sybil Rowan stuff, Angel's scars, the underground city in episode 4, the multiple Dorothy's, and so on... They did an awfully good job if they just pulled this ending out of thin air.

If you go back to Act 1, "Roger the Negotiator", the exchange of Dorothy for Soldano's money takes place in an abandoned hangar that looks very similar to a Hollywood soundstage. In fact, an overhead view of Roger through a hole in the hangar's roof foreshadows (recalls?) the aerial shot of the damaged superdome section in Act 25 "The War of Paradigm City".

[Teek]

If Big Venus does have something to do with Lucifer I think that also makes the whole tv show thing seem wrong. Perhaps Lucifer/Big Venus comes back RIGHT about when everyone is about to get their full memories back and wipes them out again? However this time the instrument of Lucifer, Angel, chose NOT to. I think Lucifer may just have created the idea of a tv show to throw all the people off. Remember the Usual Suspects quote? "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."? How evil would it be to just trick them to think its some form of tv show if they happen to begin to ask too many questions as Schwarzwald did?

Perhaps it really was the end of the world in those flashbacks? Notice how in some of the flashbacks Venus appears to be fighting in the ruins of Paradigm ala how the other Bigs were? Perhaps in the last great battle the instruments of God the Big's fought against the instrument of the devil, another fallen angel/Big called Big Venus? Maybe Lucifer is jerking the citizens around by letting them relive variations of the last days over and over again?