Should you be suspended for something like this?

[DarkPoet89]

Yesterday at lunch, my friend had an apple which she covered in mustard. She said she was going to throw it at the football team's table (we've been in kind of a war with them for the past 3 days now). Anyway, we all thought she was kidding about throwing the apple. But sure enough, the second lunch ended, she chucked it over there and it hit one of them on the head.

Anyway, when I came to lunch today, the teachers were saying that there's a very good chance that my friend could get suspended for throwing the apple. My question is, do you guys think she should?

I think she shouldn't. I mean, the guy wasn't seriously hurt or anything and my friend usually doesn't do stuff like this. She just wanted to have a little fun, it's not like she's a delinquent or anything. Comments? Thanks for taking the time to read this.

[Terminatah]

The facts that the guy happened to not get hurt and that your friend never did anything like this before are not valid excuses for anything. A mustard-covered apple? Your friend deserves to get locked in a cage like the delinquent animal that she is. If she is only suspended, let her be thankful.

-Terminatah

[Dark Spider]

Yep, she definitely should've got suspended. It was just uncalled for, and the guy could've been hurt (yes, I know it was only an apple...but still, its a solid object). In my old high school, just throwing food in the cafe was grounds for suspension...never mind that it didn't hit anybody.

[Umino]

Yeah, I think so too. Not only that, but schools are much more strict now. Just last month I was suspended (for 2 days no less) for saying 'blowjob'. :sad: So yeah, she does deserved a suspension.

[William C. Maune]

Fun with law school.

Issue: From a legal standpoint there is ground for a Battery claim.

Rule: Battery is Conduct Intentionally Causing Harmful or Offensive Contact with the person of another.

Because she threw the apple there was conduct.

Intent requires a desire to cause the harmful or offensive contact or a substantial certainty that the harmful or offensive contact will result.

Because she desired to chuck the apple at them there is intent.

Her conduct caused the contact.

The conduct may not have caused any physical harm, but having to clean mustard off one's head and out of one's hair is an offensive contact.

Conclusion: Because she threw the apple, desired to cause harmful or offensive contact and the throwing caused offensive contact, all the elements of common law battery are satisfied.

Considering that she committed a battery, under school rules something likely should happen to her. Not completely knowing the circumstances I can't say if suspension is too far, but I wouldn't say that a short suspension is unreasonable either. Her usual good behavior should hopefully work in her favor. Good luck to her.

[Tienshin]

Yeah, she should be outta there...if it were the other way around you'd want the same...and it would be just.

[Digu Volz]

Fun with law school.

There's no such thing ! There's no such thing !

Anywho, the girl did wrong, though I wouldn't go as far as to call her a 'deliquent animal'. Just seemed like y'all had a little game that went a bit too far. It is high school after all...

[DianaGohan]

I really don't think throwing a Mustard Covered apple is worth more then about say 2 weeks worth of suspension or some date similar to that. I mean it's obvious that there should be some disclipine measure taken, but nothing really that extreme. Then again, if the kid actually got hurt, well... I really don't know what I would have to say if it did.

[RogueMartian]

Please.

Schools are way overprotective these days. In my school we threw food all the time. It was gross and if you hit the wrong person you were in for a good old fashioned ass-beating afterwards. The end.

But schools now have this policy where if you throw anything you are suspended, possibly expelled. Even paper airplanes will get you a three day vacation.

The moral of the story is: don't get caught. The great thing about middle/high school is that most people are past the tattling age. So as long as the teachers don't see, and you don't do something really horrible, you're pretty safe.

But be weary of lunch wars, they come back and get you in the end.

[WingZombie38]

:eek: I cna't believe so many of you say suspension! It just seems so odd thinking she should be after all the stuff that went on in my high school. I got hit with an orange [I had gotten a bump] and a crusty burger [yeah...crusty] and they didn't do anything to the guy that did that to me. The "authority actually laughed at ,me and asked why I didn't fight back. Then again, my high school was never a good one. :sad: They didn't suspend unless someone was bleeding.

[Elven Moon]

Detention maybe, but suspension... she just shouldn't do anything like that again. It was mean and uncalled for.

[Weatherman]

Personally, I think a suspension is more then warrented. Just because some other schools let kids get away with assault and/or battery doesn;t mean your friend should get off the hook too. What would you be saying if she had been the one hit by a mustard covered apple?

[Mackenzie Rainelle]

You people are entirely too sensitive. I got hit with things much worse than mustard covered apples in the school cafeteria, and I didn't go running around trying to get their asses suspended just for something that stupid. Getting beaten half senseless, sure. Getting sexually harassed, hell yeah. But getting food thrown at me? Please. Railing that someone should be suspended over something so small is pathetic. Bunch of wusses.

[zmanjz]

Fun with law school.

Issue: From a legal standpoint there is ground for a Battery claim.

Rule: Battery is Conduct Intentionally Causing Harmful or Offensive Contact with the person of another.

Because she threw the apple there was conduct.

Intent requires a desire to cause the harmful or offensive contact or a substantial certainty that the harmful or offensive contact will result.

Because she desired to chuck the apple at them there is intent.

Her conduct caused the contact.

The conduct may not have caused any physical harm, but having to clean mustard off one's head and out of one's hair is an offensive contact.

Conclusion: Because she threw the apple, desired to cause harmful or offensive contact and the throwing caused offensive contact, all the elements of common law battery are satisfied.

Considering that she committed a battery, under school rules something likely should happen to her. Not completely knowing the circumstances I can't say if suspension is too far, but I wouldn't say that a short suspension is unreasonable either. Her usual good behavior should hopefully work in her favor. Good luck to her.


darn.... you beat me to it.

ah well... I hate torts anyway... (Criminal Law is MUCH more fun)

You people are entirely too sensitive. I got hit with things much worse than mustard covered apples in the school cafeteria, and I didn't go running around trying to get their asses suspended just for something that stupid. Getting beaten half senseless, sure. Getting sexually harassed, hell yeah. But getting food thrown at me? Please. Railing that someone should be suspended over something so small is pathetic. Bunch of wusses.

Hmmm... you know... I don't think I ever got faculty involved with my problems either...

Of course I NOTHING I do in the name of Vengance has ever been tracable back to me. :evil:

[Boy Wonder]

I am mixed. She shouldn't be suspended, but throwing an apple is just wrong.

[Drachentöter]

I'm tired of zero-tolerance being used to terrorize student bodies across America. Even my school doesn't suspend someone for throwing food.

Suspension has some serious adverse effects. It goes on your record, you miss classwork, and you have family to deal with afterwards. It does not fit the crime at all.

You could make ANYTHING out to be "unlawful" and "dangerous." If school administrations would start using common sense rather than moving toward automatic disciplinary actions, students would be a lot less resentful and good kids who make mistakes wouldn't have to go through experiences that could do damage to their school careers.

Apple throwing is a detention worthy action. We need to stop treating minors like evil demons that need to be taught lessons and more like human beings who deserve due process.

[czyznyck99]

Well, if she knew she was going to get suspended for throwing the mustard covered apple (which sounds like a paintball experiment gone wrong), she should have thrown several apples and actually try to hurt someone.

No, I wouldn't suspend her, but she is going to be suspended. If anything, to set an example that being disrespectful to the football team is wrong, because people actually think they can look up to them.

Actually, she should have thrown the apple onto the field during one of their football games. She might have never been caught, and it would have served the same purpose. Unless, of course, students have to pay for the games. At least this way, she gets a day off from school.

Later.

[Terminatah]

No, I wouldn't suspend her, but she is going to be suspended. If anything, to set an example that being disrespectful to the football team is wrong, because people actually think they can look up to them.That's adorable.

-Terminatah

[Weatherman]

You people are entirely too sensitive. I got hit with things much worse than mustard covered apples in the school cafeteria, and I didn't go running around trying to get their asses suspended just for something that stupid. Getting beaten half senseless, sure. Getting sexually harassed, hell yeah. But getting food thrown at me? Please. Railing that someone should be suspended over something so small is pathetic. Bunch of wusses.

So you're saying ti should be perfect alright for someone to be able to get away with something in school that they would never be allowed to do outside of school becuase, "hey, it's just school"? :mad:


I don't care if it was th class valedictorian, the kid with the lowest GPA in school, am 85lbs geek who's been picken on his entire life or the 250lbs captian of the football team, they broke school rules and they commited an overtly violent act against another student and/or member of the school faculty. Suspend them for a coule days, minnimum, and pray that the person who commited the act doesn't have charges pressed against them as would happen ifthey tried the same thing at a mall food court.

[RogueMartian]

I think he is right. People are wusses.

At my school a whole lunch tray, apples, milk, and all got tossed at me. Thankfully, I was a master dodger, but some ketchup got on my shirt. I just went to the bathrrom, wiped it off, went back outside, and tossed my ketchup packets back at the guy.

One time me and my friends discovered that if you slammed your fist down on a plastic bottle while the cap was on. The cap went flying up into the air. So once it flew to the table next to us and hit a girl on the face. It was so funny, we all died laughing. They got pissed and started a little lunch war with us. It was great.

Now we didn't do anything like pelt food at each other, food fights are of course forbidden (unless you ate lunch outside where the teachers feared to tread, which we usually did if it was warm enough.) But i've had various foods hit me in and outside of school.

I mean really, assault and battery???? If you throw an apple outside school and call the cops, you'll be LUCKY if they don't laugh at you. What's the worst that happened to the football guy? His jersey got mustard on it? Oh no, call the principal, suspend the assailent.

Be serious. People are wusses these days.

[Harley]

Wusses? WTF?

We're not talking about zero tolerence for her downing an aspirin and being suspended or expelled for it. Detention is for cutting class... Perhaps throwing gum or paper at someone's head. But throwing an apple (a solid object?!?!) at someone's head?

With all due respect to your friend, that's completely childish and asinine. She deserves a good smack upside her head to knock some sense into her, or in lieu of that, a couple of days suspension.

[EDIT: Solid being a relative term. The fry, gum and paper are solid objects as well. An apple, however, is fairly dense for its size. For arguments sake, let's say someone made a paper ball the size of the apple and threw it. While they both have the same amount of force behind it, the apple would undoubtedly go farther and hit harder (velocity, potential and kinetic energy, air friction and all that other physics stuff)

To really break it down:
Apple Ouchie Power > Paper Ball Ouchie Power
]

[Mackenzie Rainelle]

So you're saying ti should be perfect alright for someone to be able to get away with something in school that they would never be allowed to do outside of school becuase, "hey, it's just school"? :mad:.

Considering I've seen people get away with dropping full trays of food off the balcony of the mall food court, tossing an apple across a cafeteria is small stuff.

To get back on topic. Suspension should be held off for real fights, simply for the reason that if you use it for every damn offense, no one considers it a threat anymore. Overusing the punishment makes it worthless.

[Blue]

Whatever she desevrve's it.

[murmur]

Considering I've seen people get away with dropping full trays of food off the balcony of the mall food court, tossing an apple across a cafeteria is small stuff.

To get back on topic. Suspension should be held off for real fights, simply for the reason that if you use it for every damn offense, no one considers it a threat anymore. Overusing the punishment makes it worthless.Actually, both your on-topic and "off-topic" points are helpful. You have just demonstrated how relative this all is. Theoretically, if suspension was indeed used for "every little offense," so much so that it would be difficult to enforce, then you're right; it would become worthless. But if it was used consistently and strictly from the start, things that you call little offenses would be considered MAJOR offenses by the student body, and they would happen much less.

[DarkMaster]

obvious the victim is the target of a bullied attack learn enough self esteem to defend yourself. the other victim is the handling the bully itself which could be damaged for life. the target of another bullied attack is the one that says he gets what he deserves. This way will know your not to make the bully feel weak or feel your too weak to provoke another attack.

[RogueMartian]

We're not talking about zero tolerence for her downing an aspirin and being suspended or expelled for it. Detention is for cutting class...

Don't get me wrong. She threw an object and got caught. And if she was stupid enough to get caught, she probably deserves to get suspended. However, I'm assuming right now she didn't peg the apple at him and break his nose. If nobody was hurt, then the girl should get a few days of detention. Not suspension.

[Harley]

I still disagree. I think a few days is warranted. Had I done such a thing, even if the school didn't come up with a suitable punishment, my mother would have. And you know what? I would've deserved it for pulling something like that. Especially on school grounds.

Let's just be thankful she doesn't go to my old high school. There have been people knifed or beaten to a pulp for less than that there.

[purplehairedwonder]

If nobody was hurt, then the girl should get a few days of detention. Not suspension.

I agree. People throw things in the cafeteria almost all the time. My friends and I get hit with fries (yeah, not an apple, but still) almost every day, and no one does anything about it. I agree that there should be consequences, a week of detention probably, but no suspension.

[William C. Maune]

No one may have been hurt this time, but what about next time? This time the apple hit someone in the back of the head. What if next time they miss and instead it hits the person across the table in the face and knocks out a tooth or worse?

The questions comes to where do you draw the line. On one side of the spectrum most everyone would agree that it really doesn't matter if someone has a soggy cafeteria french fry thrown at them. It can't do any damage. On the other hand I think we would all agree that at some point you do draw the line. There are some things you definitely don't throw, like the cafeteria silverware, and at some point you have to stop the throwing or else you get a all out food fight. A food fight may be fun, but school officials can't reasonably be expected to allow that to happen..

Where in this spectrum does the apple fall? An apple can be a fairly solid object; it is definitely one of the harder fruits. Depending on how hard it is thrown and where it hits, the apple has the potential to do some significant damage, as noted above in this post. Furthermore, this wasn't just a random urge to toss something, coating the apple in mustard beforehand shows that this was a premeditated and planned action. Also, now the apple doesn't just have the potential to affect someone, but it can now splatter mustard on several people. It may not seem like much to some, but how would you like to be the person that has to try and clean mustard out of their hair and has to spend the rest of the school day walking around with whatever mustard in their hair they couldn't get out?

The next question is how many times do we let this happen? Does the person hit with the apple now have the right to throw a mustard covered apple back? Does everyone potentially splattered with mustard now have the right to throw mustard covered apples back? If the person who threw the apple is not punished do they have the right to thow another apple the next day? How many days do we let them chuck apples at people before we make them stop?

Finally, we come to the issue of liability. Depending on where and how it hits, and apple, being a fairly solid object can cause damage. The school can be held liable for this damage because they are in charge of those minors that attend school during school time. Whether some schools do or not, people expect schools to keep a certain level of order, to maintain a learning environment and parents expect schools to keep their children safe while they are under the school's control. As much as it might be nice to say that people shouldn't sue the school for stuff like this (assuming the apple did cause damage), at the same time the family shouldn't be expected to be stuck with the medical bills for something that wasn't their fault.

[The Falcon]

suspension is justified. she threw an apple at another student. i know most of us don't like the football team anyway, but throwing food is not a good idea. maybe it'd be a good idea to suspend her from lunch indifinitely too, eh? :)

Falcon

[Weatherman]

Fine, call me a wuss, I really don't care though that certainly make me evaluate both of your opinions in the past any any opinions you give in the future in a different light.

The girl threw something at someone else in a premeditaed action with the intent of hitting them. Whether she intended to cause damage or whether it actually caused damage should be irrelevant. it shouldn't matter if it was a toothpick or a brick. She threw something at someone, she deals wit the consequences. You don't throw things at people, unless it's friends goofing off with each other. That's fine, since both parties know it's just a joke and they agreed to it.

[Drachentöter]

No one may have been hurt this time, but what about next time? This time the apple hit someone in the back of the head. What if next time they miss and instead it hits the person across the table in the face and knocks out a tooth or worse?

Except no tooth was knocked out or worse. There were no injuries sustained. Punishments have to fit the crime not the POSSIBILITY of a crime. You don't pull someone over for speeding and then take away his lisence because "he could do it again."

The questions comes to where do you draw the line. On one side of the spectrum most everyone would agree that it really doesn't matter if someone has a soggy cafeteria french fry thrown at them. It can't do any damage. On the other hand I think we would all agree that at some point you do draw the line. There are some things you definitely don't throw, like the cafeteria silverware, and at some point you have to stop the throwing or else you get a all out food fight. A food fight may be fun, but school officials can't reasonably be expected to allow that to happen.

Right, a line has to be drawn. But this isn't the place. If you're willing to push the line this far back, then it'll just keep becoming stricter and stricter until students have practically no freedom, which is the requirement to make these type of mistakes. However freedom is far more beneficial to a student in the long run.

Where in this spectrum does the apple fall? An apple can be a fairly solid object; it is definitely one of the harder fruits. Depending on how hard it is thrown and where it hits, the apple has the potential to do some significant damage, as noted above in this post. Furthermore, this wasn't just a random urge to toss something, coating the apple in mustard beforehand shows that this was a premeditated and planned action. Also, now the apple doesn't just have the potential to affect someone, but it can now splatter mustard on several people. It may not seem like much to some, but how would you like to be the person that has to try and clean mustard out of their hair and has to spend the rest of the school day walking around with whatever mustard in their hair they couldn't get out?

I'm sure the mustard covered victims are traumatized. I'll be sure to attend their support group meeting.

"Hi, I'm Brenda and I got spattered with mustard. It was SO embarrassing.[sobs]"

People have to learn to deal. In a world where people sue over the smallest, most insignificant things, students should be able to accept a little mustard in their hair. And you can hardly call anything a high schooler does premeditated. We act on impulse. Mustard seems like a funny thing - BAM on goes the mustard and the apple is thrown. The decision takes less than five seconds.

The next question is how many times do we let this happen? Does the person hit with the apple now have the right to throw a mustard covered apple back? Does everyone potentially splattered with mustard now have the right to throw mustard covered apples back? If the person who threw the apple is not punished do they have the right to thow another apple the next day? How many days do we let them chuck apples at people before we make them stop?

If anyone else throws an apple, they should get the same punishment. And that punishment SHOULD be detention. However, this is never the case. Students with higher grades, high class parents, and a good athletic record are always taken into special consideration. They get slaps on the wrist. It's students who struggle to fit in with any aspect of school that get the worst of it. And that's not fair. Punishments should be uniform, but they're not.

Finally, we come to the issue of liability. Depending on where and how it hits, and apple, being a fairly solid object can cause damage. The school can be held liable for this damage because they are in charge of those minors that attend school during school time. Whether some schools do or not, people expect schools to keep a certain level of order, to maintain a learning environment and parents expect schools to keep their children safe while they are under the school's control. As much as it might be nice to say that people shouldn't sue the school for stuff like this (assuming the apple did cause damage), at the same time the family shouldn't be expected to be stuck with the medical bills for something that wasn't their fault.

The apple caused no damage. This point is moot. Speculating on what COULD have gone wrong is exactly why these ridiculous punishments are enforced.

[Harley]

I'm sure the mustard covered victims are traumatized. I'll be sure to attend their support group meeting.

"Hi, I'm Brenda and I got spattered with mustard. It was SO embarrassing.[sobs]"

People have to learn to deal. In a world where people sue over the smallest, most insignificant things, students should be able to accept a little mustard in their hair. And you can hardly call anything a high schooler does premeditated. We act on impulse. Mustard seems like a funny thing - BAM on goes the mustard and the apple is thrown. The decision takes less than five seconds.

By saying everything you're said there, you're basically giving every parent/adult/guardian good reason to say, "Why should I treat you like an adult then?" Another favorite of mine, "What were you thinking?!?! No. The answer is you weren't thinking!"

Punishments have to fit the crime not the POSSIBILITY of a crime. You don't pull someone over for speeding and then take away his lisence because "he could do it again."

Except there are crimes with the word "attempted" in front of them. Where the actual end result was not accomplished, but the effort was made.

She probably did not intend to harm him and she probably did it in the spirit of "fun". However, she did intend to have the apple hit someone. She has even less of an argument because she covered it with mustard. That's premeditated. Not spontaneous. I don't think anyone would believe her for a second if she said that she thought the apple would stop in mid-air, a mere inch away from hitting someone's head. Nor can she say, "Well, I really didn't think an apple would weigh that much.", after having held it in her hand.

I played a lot of sports while growing up. Particularly sports and games that fit into the whole Bronx setting. (i.e. basketball, baseball/stickball, handball) In particular, there's this one game that's played with a hand ball. You find a surface that's at an angle and throw the hand ball at it. Someone in the group of kids behind you tries to catch it. If no one catches it, you go again. If someone does, they get to throw it at you and hit you. The game is designed as such where you eventually get hit no matter what. And let me tell you, a hand ball thrown hard enough hurts like hell when it hits you.

An apple is larger than and weighs more than a hand ball. Even being launched with less force behind it, it can cause damage. Even with much less force behind it, I'm sure the guy was disoriented for a bit when it hit him in the noggin'.

All that said, I wouldn't be making any of these arguments if she had launched a soggy fry. Mmmmm. Fries.

[Digu Volz]

Except there are crimes with the word "attempted" in front of them. Where the actual end result was not accomplished, but the effort was made.

Seriously, officer, I was only attempting murder, I didn't actually kill her. No harm, no foul, right ?

Anywho, when I think about it, suspension does sound a bit harsh if the guy wasn't hurt too bad. A few days of detention would have been more adequate, imo, 'cause, like I said, it sounds like this was her first time (shut up) instigating such an incidenct and some leniency should be shown. It'd be different if she was known for doing such things, but, from what little I know, she sounds like a decent person and I wouldn't like to see her get behind in her studies. Maybe an in-school suspension for a day ? I think that would be nice 'encouragement', if she needs any.

By the by, DarkPoet, I hope this suspension doesn't complicate your friend's studies.

As far as the 'well, I've been through worse, so everybody else should have to' people are concerned, that's rather selfish thinking. I disagree with the suspension, but pushing for such doesn't really make anybody a weakling. In some cases it would make perfect sense. Just not this one.

Right, a line has to be drawn. But this isn't the place. If you're willing to push the line this far back, then it'll just keep becoming stricter and stricter until students have practically no freedom, which is the requirement to make these type of mistakes. However freedom is far more beneficial to a student in the long run.

One school gives suspension while, obviously, some don't and we're talking like this is a country-wide epidemic. Let's not lose perspective, freedom's far from a rarity.

[William C. Maune]

"Except no tooth was knocked out or worse. There were no injuries sustained. Punishments have to fit the crime not the POSSIBILITY of a crime. You don't pull someone over for speeding and then take away his lisence because "he could do it again."

No, you don't pull someone over for speeding and then take away his lisence because "he could do it again." That would be drastic. At the same time, no one is saying this person should be expelled because they could do it again. When someone is speeding, they do get a ticket. If they get enough tickets we do take away their license.

"The apple caused no damage. This point is moot. Speculating on what COULD have gone wrong is exactly why these ridiculous punishments are enforced."

If a person tries to kill someone, but is unsuccessful, should we let them off because they caused no damage? It is an extreme example, but it is the same basic idea. Also, if someone is driving drunk, should we let them off as long as they don't cause damage? If someone is speeding should we let them off as long as they don't cause damamge? If someone is chucking baseballs into a crowd should we let them off as long as they don't cause damage? If someone is chucking apples into a crowd, should we let them off as long as they don't cause damage?

The point of law isn't to puish when damage does occur. The point of law is to keep damage from happening in the first place. Within reason, we shouldn't wait until someone gets hurt to do something. If someone is engaging in a dangerous activity action should be taken to discourage them and others from doing it.

" Right, a line has to be drawn. But this isn't the place. If you're willing to push the line this far back, then it'll just keep becoming stricter and stricter until students have practically no freedom, which is the requirement to make these type of mistakes. However freedom is far more beneficial to a student in the long run."

Why does the line automatically start becoming stricter if you make it at the apple instead of where it is now? What would cause it to suddenly start going down that slippery slope? No one is saying all student's freedoms should be taken away. If the line is drawn, why are we to assume it moves from there? There is nothing to back up your argument.

"I'm sure the mustard covered victims are traumatized. I'll be sure to attend their support group meeting.

"Hi, I'm Brenda and I got spattered with mustard. It was SO embarrassing.[sobs]"

People have to learn to deal. In a world where people sue over the smallest, most insignificant things, students should be able to accept a little mustard in their hair"

It is going to be embarrassing to a lot of people. I'd like to see if your reaction would be different if it happened to you. People do have to learn to deal to function in society, but people also have to learn to not chuck mustard covered apples at people to function in society. Neither is going to cut it in the workplace cafeteria.

"And you can hardly call anything a high schooler does premeditated. We act on impulse. Mustard seems like a funny thing - BAM on goes the mustard and the apple is thrown. The decision takes less than five seconds."

It takes a lot longer to coat an apple with mustard. Furthermore, according to the first post they had been at war with the other table for 3 days and this person had been talking about chucking an apple at them for awhile. Finally, while the action being premeditated helps prove intent, the fact that it was impulse shouldn't take the blame off of them all that much at all.

[Warnergirls]

Well ive been hit with basket balls, base balls and a roll of the tape the last two years at my high school X_X... I complained to a teacher about the roll of tape, and the people found out who did it and called both me and him in to talk about it. It was an accident so I dont think he got in trouble. I meant to hit some one else (Playfully) but it hit me instead. What your friend did was wrong, I admit that.
But c'mon suspension?
How long? if it isnt for too long than I guess its fine.
but that was not a act of violence. she just hate people (although I am not saying thats a good excuse to throw fruit at that person)
Ive done rash decisions like that. They should probably figure out the problem with her and these other guys and then talk it out. Not suspend some one \, or else it might happen again 9_9

[William C. Maune]

And now for something completely different...

The guy should have to take a class on how to defend yourself against someone attacking with a piece of fruit.

[Speedy Boris]

I'm so glad I'm done with high school.

[Outlander00]

I'll agree with Harleys viewpoint...

You could hurt someone by throwing an apple at them, especially if you hit them in the head, because it can get more velocity behind it due to its weight.

The administrators did the right thing to not only keep things civilized, but also to avoid any possible legal actions by showing the student was reprimanded for her actions (it could happen in these days and times).

Hey, Ive been on the same end of the stick like your friend is... though at the time I didnt like it, I look back and think what the principal did to me for my actions(giving a kid birthday punches) was the right thing.

Now, the mustard part... thats just disgusting :p

[Joe Mama]

I'm going to agree with everyone on the suspension, but if you look at it in a different light, suspension could be a wonderful thing. http://forums.toonzone.net/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[RogueMartian]

I think comparing throwing an apple to attempted MURDER is the most ridiculous thing I've heard this month.

She threw an APPLE! Not a bullet, not a knife, not a club. Does an apple hurt when it hits you in the head: yes. Anyone who's ever stood under an apple tree in fall can attest to that. You rub the top of your head and you walk on.

But let's be serious. The girl didn't attempt murder. I doubt she even attempted physical harm. She probably tossed the mustard covered apple at him. Got a little mustard on his jersey or hair. He was probably stunned, his football pals probably laughed at the mustard apple bouncing off of him. But I doubt it hurt him.

So yes, there is a difference. Now if she had thown a knife, I would the first one arguing for expulsion. But an apple, while somewhat heavy, is not fatal. She should pay for the soiled jersey, the handful of shampool, and write on the blackboard 500 times "I will not throw mustard covered apples".

Because in small cases like this, the rule should be: no harm, no foul. That is where I draw the line. Goofing around and horseplay is acceptible as long as nobody gets hurt. But if you eliminate all goofing around because someone gets hurt, then you will be eliminating fun. Fun occasionally has a price.

Not to mention, this guy was a football player right? Considering that 200+ pound guys try to pound him every week, I'm guessing that the little apple wouldn't even have phased him.

[Harley]

Just to keep things in perspective...

I'd like to point out that no person who was leaning towards suspension ever initially brought up the idea of comparing an apple to crime, it was actually one of the folks arguing against it. I believe to say that punishments should fit the crime and not the possibility of a crime. This was picked up by the other group only to show that there are situations in which "attempted" warrants a punishment. The first time "murder" was even mentioned, it was by someone making a joke.

Regardless, the bottom line is, she shouldn't have done it unless she was willing to face the consequences. And if she didn't think that there might be consequences to her actions, lenient, severe, or just right, well that was a bit foolish of her. And if she didn't think and just acted on impulse, well, I have no sympathy for her. "I just didn't think it through." was never an excuse I, nor anyone I know, was allowed to use while growing up.

[nachonaco]

My Two Cents On The Subject:


I've been called swear words before, nothing happened to the kids, and they MEANT to do it. I do not believe that your friend had any intent of physically harming the football player, as it has been stated here. Whether or not it was a meditated act, does not make a difference. She was playing around. Now, for my point. She did not mean to do it, but rather intended on playing a harmless prank. The kids who had called me swear words (this was a LONG time ago), who had intended on causing me emotional harm, did not get a suspension OR detention.

However, if someone is just playing an innocent prank, they are the ones who get caught.


Sorry if that didn't make any sense....

[Jade_GL]

What ever happened to just verbally attacking someone? Why do we have to bring fruit into this? :D

I think a suspension is fine if it fits the punishments metted out in similar circumstances. Really, you can only compare this event to other similar events in that specific school, because each school has a different set of punishments for bad behavior. And, since I know nothing about the school, I can only say that if other people would befall a similar punishment, then it's fair.

Really, this may have been a prank, just for fun, maybe even to impress friends, but it still could have seriously hurt someone. They have to not only punish on what happened, but make an example for other students. If they just say "Oh well, it didn't hurt someone" the next person either does the same thing and this time hurts someone, or ups the ante by throwing an ice ball, or a rock, or a full tray of food, or a chair. Then they could just say "Ooops, I didn't mean to hurt anyone, I was just fooling." How is that fair for one person to get off light while another could do the same act, but be punished more just because they had better aim or a stronger arm? That, my friends, is silly.

There was obvious intent, if only to fool around, and that makes it worse in a lot of ways. I understand you want to let kids be kids, but kids can be kids in schools without launching hard fruit at each other.

And don't just think about the kids in this. Sure, it's no big deal if they aren't hurt, or if they just have to brush some mustard off of themselves, but there are also janitors who have to pick up this slop, and teachers who have to pick it up or figure out how to deal with this. I hate to be a party pooper, but these workers shouldn't have to deal with juvenile crap that should have been left behind in the third grade. School isn't just about kids and what they do, it's also a job for a lot of people who come in everyday and have to deal with things that really aren't in teh job description, like dealing with mustard covered apples.

Here's my point.

You may think it's funny, but the people who mop the floors and have to figure out how to deal with this don't think it's funny, and when you get older, you'll realize that it really wasn't that cool. I'm just 20, but I realized a while ago, living in a dorm, that the most important thing in life is personal responsibility. See how you guys feel when someone leaves dirty underwear in a shower stall because they don't feel the need to pick it up, or because they think the vomit they just filled a sink with is a big joke. I have had to deal with all of these things.

I think just think that if the punishment is carried out fairly among all students who do similar things, and if it's not too harsh, it should be followed. Otherwise, you have people coming out of school who have no grasp of how to act. I wish I didn't sound so cynical, but it's true. :)

[DarkPoet89]

OK, first I'd like to thank everybody who posted in this thread. I can't believe it got so many posts. And second, I'd like to tell you how everything ended:

My friend is not getting suspended. I recently discovered that my school's suspension policy states that a student will be suspended only if he/she is trying to inflict harm on another student continuously . So if my friend does something like this again, then she'll be suspended. Also, I've noticed that there are more teachers in the cafeteria during lunch time to make sure that something like this doesn't happen again.

Lastly, my friend and I got to speak to the football team today. The captain shook my hand, and the other players actually complimented my friend on throwing the apple. They thought she threw it well. (and in case you're worried about the guy that got hit, there's no need to be concerned. He was not hurt at all, he just got a little mustard in his hair, and the mustard wasn't even noticable)

So all in all, it's a happy ending for both sides, and the war is officially over. Yay! :D Again, thank you all for sharing your opinions with me on this matter.

[William C. Maune]

Glad to hear everything worked well in the end!

[jrh31584]

If I'm the administrator, I'd probably give the offender detention or something of that nature.

[Drachentöter]

OK, first I'd like to thank everybody who posted in this thread. I can't believe it got so many posts. And second, I'd like to tell you how everything ended:

My friend is not getting suspended. I recently discovered that my school's suspension policy states that a student will be suspended only if he/she is trying to inflict harm on another student continuously . So if my friend does something like this again, then she'll be suspended. Also, I've noticed that there are more teachers in the cafeteria during lunch time to make sure that something like this doesn't happen again.

Lastly, my friend and I got to speak to the football team today. The captain shook my hand, and the other players actually complimented my friend on throwing the apple. They thought she threw it well. (and in case you're worried about the guy that got hit, there's no need to be concerned. He was not hurt at all, he just got a little mustard in his hair, and the mustard wasn't even noticable)

So all in all, it's a happy ending for both sides, and the war is officially over. Yay! :D Again, thank you all for sharing your opinions with me on this matter.

Hey, that's great! I didn't expect for such reasonable outcomes. Good for you and your friend!

I agree with your school's policy. Continous and deliberate attempts to harm or harass a student are definitley grounds for suspension. But even the football team acknowledges that the mustard-apple was a passion crime and resulted in little damage. I do think the beefed up supervision isn't enitirely necessary, but schools will be schools. :anime:

Again, great to hear that!

[EinBebop]

Well, as far as suspendable acts go... how about this?

Student suspended for 'patriotic' drawing
Son of Navy man depicted soldier blowing away Taliban fighter

Posted: October 30, 2003
© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com

A "patriotic" stick-figure drawing of a U.S. Marine blowing away a Taliban fighter earned a 14-year-old schoolboy a five-day suspension.

http://209.17.95.115/images2/switzer.jpg

Scott Switzer, of Colts Neck, N.J., whose father and stepfather serve in the military, was sent home last week from Tinton Falls Middle School after a teacher saw the image on a computer and described it to the principal, the New York Post reported.

"He's been punished for the drawing," said Tinton Falls school superintendent Leonard Kelpsh, according to the Post. "We felt it was highly inappropriate, and we took it very seriously."

Switzer insists the discipline was unjust.

"Truth be told, it's a Marine shooting a terrorist Taliban," he told the New York paper. "It's just a picture. What upsets me most is that the principal would dare say it's not normal. To me, it's patriotic."

(Read the rest of the story Here) (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=35341)

[Mackenzie Rainelle]

Nyaaaa.....I draw extremely graphic suicide and mass murder scenes, and bring books about serial killers to school, I get forced to go to a psychologist. He draws a stick figure of a Taliban killing, and gets suspended. WTF?

[Cyrus]

Yesterday at lunch, my friend had an apple which she covered in mustard. She said she was going to throw it at the football team's table (we've been in kind of a war with them for the past 3 days now). Anyway, we all thought she was kidding about throwing the apple. But sure enough, the second lunch ended, she chucked it over there and it hit one of them on the head.

Anyway, when I came to lunch today, the teachers were saying that there's a very good chance that my friend could get suspended for throwing the apple. My question is, do you guys think she should?

I think she shouldn't. I mean, the guy wasn't seriously hurt or anything and my friend usually doesn't do stuff like this. She just wanted to have a little fun, it's not like she's a delinquent or anything. Comments? Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Hell no i do stuff like that all the time!!!

[Umino]

Well, as far as suspendable acts go... how about this?

Student suspended for 'patriotic' drawing
Son of Navy man depicted soldier blowing away Taliban fighter

Posted: October 30, 2003
© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com

A "patriotic" stick-figure drawing of a U.S. Marine blowing away a Taliban fighter earned a 14-year-old schoolboy a five-day suspension.

http://209.17.95.115/images2/switzer.jpg

Scott Switzer, of Colts Neck, N.J., whose father and stepfather serve in the military, was sent home last week from Tinton Falls Middle School after a teacher saw the image on a computer and described it to the principal, the New York Post reported.

"He's been punished for the drawing," said Tinton Falls school superintendent Leonard Kelpsh, according to the Post. "We felt it was highly inappropriate, and we took it very seriously."

Switzer insists the discipline was unjust.

"Truth be told, it's a Marine shooting a terrorist Taliban," he told the New York paper. "It's just a picture. What upsets me most is that the principal would dare say it's not normal. To me, it's patriotic."

(Read the rest of the story Here) (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=35341)

OH.MY.GOD.

That kid goes to my school! O.o
Everyone at school was talking about this!

I can't believe Tinton Falls made such a big deal of this. They make a big deal about everything, heck they're the ones who suspended me for saying 'blowjob'. Funny to see him on Toonzone. :anime:

[Avery]

*rolls eyes* Patriotic that is not, but it is wrong for the kid to get a suspension.

School administrations *really* need to review the first amendment. With this story and the one recently posted about the girl getting suspended for writing a fictional tale, it's looking more and more like the public scholl system is working themselves towards a big-time lawsuit. Base, crude, and disturbing as these things might be, the kids have a right to draw or write them.

[RogueMartian]

Good god what is wrong with schools these days!!

I'm glad to hear the mustard apple girl didn't get suspended. I think the principal made the appropriate decision. But there just isn't a week that goes by without another ridiculous suspension/expulsion happening at schools these days. Schools really need to rethink how they're handling situations these days. It's getting ridiculous.

I hated my french teacher, I drew her under a guillotine, and then went to lunch and tossed food at my friends. I never hurt anybody. And was of course, never punished for any of those things. When did the schools take it upon themselves to be the thought police? If the teachers are afraid they should send the student to the local shrink. If the shrink says that they're weird, but not dangerous, then they should be free to draw, write, or dream whatever the hell they want. End of story. They probably only go as far as showing their drawings or writings to a few friends, It's not like they're trying to get published in the school newspaper or lit mag.

Geeze, teachers these days suck.

[William C. Maune]

Good god what is wrong with schools these days!!

Because of the internet it is a lot easier for stories such as these to disseminate to a wider variety of readers these days. In the past stories like this didn't get past the local paper, if even that far. Besides even taking that into consideration however, if these are the only things that are happening out of tens of thousands of schools, then I think schools are doing pretty good.

[RogueMartian]

If only that were true.

We are only getting the ones that make it to the local papers. Most of these cases do not. Most of the time parents and students just grit their teeth and take the punishment. I knew several people who were suspended for three days for bringing tylenol to school. Many kids have cell phones or pagers because their parents want to be able to contact them, yet the schools are still being jerks about those things as well. Maybe this was always the case before I ever noticed it but suspensions and expulsions happen fairly frequently since the majority of schools have begun their zero tolerance policies. It almost happened to me once when I decided that I didn't want to stand for the pledge of allegience when I was in school. Fortunately I argued my way out of it, but most people aren't so lucky.