Knights Of The Zodiac "Battle For The Gold Cloth"

[DianaGohan]

I'm really about to give up on this series. I hope like people says, it gets better now that they're away from the Tournament or something like that. Anyway, rate it here or something.

[Batmex]

Just saw it.

DIC made Phoenix's Black Knights look and talk like mental retarded idiots.

Hyoga's surfer dude voice never ceases to anoy me.

I'll let the others say the rest :(

[Dragon_Shiryu]

That's a great episode in the original. But what with the Darth Vader voices in this version? o.O

[Xtor]

why a gold cloth,why not gold helmet,or armor,or even pants,but no,it has to bee cloth. wait a minute,how can you make gold cloth?what's so speacial about it?!i need to know :eek:

[Dragon_Shiryu]

why a gold cloth,why not gold helmet,or armor,or even pants,but no,it has to bee cloth. wait a minute,how can you make gold cloth?what's so speacial about it?!i need to know :eek:

Sure, here's all the background info for the series:

At the beginning of times was the nothingness. Then came the Big Bang, the birth of an ever expanding universe...

One day, the Big Will, symbol of the Spiritual power, revealed itself to the world. Lightning spread into the cosmos, giving a kind of soul to everything it touched. This is, according to Saint Seiya, the explanation of the stars' influence on human's destinies : they are not lifeless things, but spirits that communicate with us... " Big Will " is written " God's Will " in Japanese ; humans could not understand its real nature. The Hyper-Myth (Saint Seiya's mythology, that is in fact a merging of all mythologies and religions of the world) says that every man who succeeds in joining his soul with the Big Will will become a god... this was the case of the Buddha, who reached the Nirvana after years of meditation, or of our Christ, reincarnation of his own father.


The age of the gods
Only three gods have no human, but spiritual nature : Gaia (the Earth), Uranos (the Sky) and Ponthos (the Ocean). Zeus, Hades and Poseidon were the first three humans to reach the Big Will and be worshipped as gods. They assumed control of the Earth, of Kingdom of the Dead and of Oceans. The Big Will can be considered as a ninth sense, beyond the first eight senses, which includes them all. A god masters the famous Seventh sense, but also the Eighth (the Arayashiki), that allows him to go to the Kingdom of the Dead without becoming one of its subjects.

By their mastery of the Big Will, these gods have earned an immortal soul, but their bodies are mortal. They thus have to be reincarnated regularly (every 250 years is an average), and reach the Big Will again. So, Saori Kido became Athena only when she was told the truth, and when she felt she was mature enough to use her cosmo, just before the Sanctuary War. Of course you can say that in the manga, SHE tells the Saints the truth about her identity, not Tokumaru Tatsumi... but maybe she discovered the truth herself, just before the beginning of the manga... who knows ? Julian Solo became Poseidon only in the penultimate episode of the series... not to forget Shaka : his name speaks for itself (he is the reincarnation of Sakyamuni, the first Buddha), he was the first saint who reached the Seventh, then the Eighth Sense (it is the reason why the manga says he is the closest man to the gods, kami ni mottomo chikai otoko)... He is also the one Saint who knows the previous Holy Wars well.

We see no trace of Zeus in Saint Seiya, but he is there all right...The legend says that he disappeared one day, leaving the sovereignty of the Earth to Athena. It is also said that one will understand the meaning of life if one understands the reasons of his departure. Anyway, it is obvious in the manga, even if not said explicitly, that Zeus was reincarnated ...in Mitsumasa Kido, the founder of the Graude Foundation. After taking care of little Saori, he disappeared again to rule over the Heaven, as we can see while Saori is talking to him in the planetarium. Moreover, Mitsumasa Kido was a horny devil...Who else could have been able to seduce a hundred or so women in a few months ? (if one of you can do this, please mail me... I'd like to read your testimony)


The Holy Wars
The Holy Wars are battles between the gods, and thus between the human who worship them... The first god who got mad at all the others was Poseidon. Determined to conquer the whole world, he gathered the best warriors of the seven oceans and named them Generals (in Japanese, " Marina "). He offered them their Scales, armors of unknown origin (he probably created them himself) ; mythical monsters such as mermaids, or Kraken, were inspired by the shapes of these Scales, not the opposite. They were made of orichalcum, a metal which, according to a Selenian legend, came from a meteor fallen from Saturn and crashed on Atlantis a long time ago ; anyone who used weapons made from this metal was then invincible. War bursts out. Athena's warriors are soon beaten, as the goddess refuses to allow them to use weapons. All her warriors dying one by one, only young boys are left to rescue the world (in remembrance of this fact, only teenagers are allowed to become Saints)... Athena does not want to see them suffer, and decides to give them armors... She calls then on the alchemists from the Mu continent, which is located in the middle of the Pacific ocean (yes, that's right, Tao, in " Taiyou no ko Esteban ", comes from this very wise people), to forge these Cloths (so are the Saints' armors named). She designs them herself, inspired by the shape she saw in each of the 88 constellations. A Saint has thus to be in harmony with the constellation that inspired his armor to be allowed to wear it ; in other words, he must be protected by this constellation's main star. No one could therefore wear a gold cloth that does not match his own zodiacal sign...it is real luck that Seiya is a Sagittarius, just like Aiolos, his spiritual master.

These Cloths were made from Orichalcum too, but also from gammanium (an unknown alloy) and from Star Dust, which contains the Big Will and gives life to the Cloths...Mu, the Aries Saint, used twice this dust to strengthen the Bronze Saints' Cloths (when he met Shiryu, and when they arrived at the Sanctuary). Mu and Kiki are the last descendants of the people of Mu... This mythical continent was engulfed a long time ago during another Holy War, which opposed the Saints to the Titans, beings who caused the Big Bang, and who came on Earth probably by Hades' will.

The Cloths' power depends on their category (there are 12 Gold Cloths, 24 Silver cloths, 48 Bronze Cloths and 4 from unknown origin, Masami Kurumada having not exploited this feature). They can regenerate by themselves when they are damaged. Their healing is quicker if they stay in their Cloth Box, a big metal box that the Saints carry on their backs.

Athena then creates the order of the Saints. From then on, she is reincarnated on Earth just before the beginning of each Holy War in order to lead her warriors, gathered into the Sanctuary under the orders of the Pope (called kyoukou in Japanese, officially translated Monk-Emperor) who executes the goddess' will.

With the help of their Cloths, the Saints repulse the Marina to the oceans. A furious Poseidon gathers his warriors in his giant temple situated on Atlantis. Athena sends eight Saints there to destroy the temple, beat the Marina and sink the whole continent straight to the bottom ! The goddess then locks up Poseidon's soul in the North Pole, and sends a few Saints to guard it. These Saints eventually forgot their origins and became... the Blue Warriors, Hyoga's adversaries in vol. 13 of the manga, but also the God Warriors prototypes... Back to Poseidon : his following reincarnation settled a new temple just next to Cape Sounion, in Greece, on the bottom of Mediterranean sea (so the Main Breadwinner symbolizes this sea.)


A legend was born
After seven generations, Athena builds twelve temples in Athens area, to which she gave the name of " Sanctuary ". Then follows a chaotic period, during which the goddess and her Saints have to confront the Giants (this war was named " Gigantomachy ") . Athena herself had to intervene, in order to defeat the last of them, named Encelade, by jailing him under Sicily. The same legend says that Etna is the hole from which the giant's blazing puff rises up... following another legend, the prisoner of Etna is not Encelade, but Typhoon, who had been formerly beaten by Zeus.

After this war, the Saints have to fight the god Ares, friend of Hades. This fight was indeed the most trying... Ares, leading his four armies of Berserkers (so are called his warriors) has nearly beaten the 58 Saints 'in function' at this time (it equals the number of Saints in Seiya's generation). The goddess decides reluctantly, for the first and last time before the beginning of the series, to allow Libra's Saint to use the orichalcum weapons that are part of his armor...the Saints were then able to repulse Ares to the Hades ; it maybe caused a first indirect conflict between Athena and Hades (but the Hyper Myth gives no further explanation)...at this time Hades was wounded, but probably nothing more, by a certain Pegasus Saint, who looked like Seiya... the most clear-sighted of you have surely understood what it meant.

Peaceful centuries passed. Later on, a real hell, the little Death Queen island, was discovered in the middle of the Pacific ocean, on the equator. It used to be a rocky area of Mu continent, where Black Cloths prototypes, created by rebel alchemists, were stored. These Cloths are very powerful, even if they are not officially recognized by Athena... The island eventually became the only place to go for all men who were not able to become Saints, for they could easily obtain a Cloth there. The goddess decided thus to send a Saint to the island, in order to prevent them from leaving the place. This Saint had to be powerful, but at the same time not very important for the running of the Sanctuary, as he had to stay there forever. Successive Popes sent thus their most cruel warriors on the island, masked in sign of punishment for their crimes. Right, Guilty, Esmeralda's adoptive father and Ikki's master, was one of them... The mask was actually the island's seal : anyone who arrived there had to break it, or else he could never leave the island... but he had to kill the mask's owner before !

The rebel alchemists had not enough knowledge (nor time, for their continent sunk a short time later) to produce more than just copies of Bronze Cloths ; they reproduced Phoenix Cloth several times, as it was the most powerful one... Besides, Ikki is the first man in history to obtain Phoenix Cloth... No one before him had enough cosmo to channel Phoenix's energy...


On the way to the Hades...
1743 : in the Age of the Enlightenment, the prince of darkness comes back on earth.... Hades declares war on the whole mankind, just by disgust towards us. 79 Cloths had then an owner... which was a the highest number ever reached. However, almost all of them were defeated by Hades' warriors, called Specters, well protected by their armors, named Surplices. Only two Saints survived this terrible fight : Aries Shion (another descendant of the people of Mu), who will be named later Pope (the very one who will be killed by Saga some 230 years later), and Libra Dohko, Shiryu's future master, who Athena ordered to guard the tower (situated near the Five Ancient Pikes) in which she had locked the 108 Specters' souls...Hades came to take his revenge only in 1973... waiting to reincarnate in Shun's body, he perverts Saga's soul (which was somewhat insane already) and prompts him to take the lead of the Sanctuary, in order to prepare his coming. The Saints foiled his plans...the day when the Specters will invade the Sanctuary to neutralize Athena is coming near... most of our brave Saints will die in this imminent war, but they will do anything to protect their fellow humans, and their courage will turn them into gods...

[Xtor]

oooooo,so that what happened,thnx for tellen me

[Digu Volz]

Bwahahahaha ! I don't know if this episode was meant to be funny or not, but it was. This is so sad... Amusing, but sad.

Anyway, it's nice to see the show actually going somewhere now, but since things are just getting started after seven or so episodes you have to wonder whether or not it's too late ? I'll keep watching 'cause I want to actually see what I read about, but still...

Also, despite the fact the Saints attacks are meant to be physical they certainly don't make them look like it. Kind of funky when you have all of those specials effects and it just turns out they threw a punch.

[Dragon_Shiryu]

Bwahahahaha ! I don't know if this episode was meant to be funny or not, but it was. This is so sad... Amusing, but sad.

Anyway, it's nice to see the show actually going somewhere now, but since things are just getting started after seven or so episodes you have to wonder whether or not it's too late ? I'll keep watching 'cause I want to actually see what I read about, but still...

Also, despite the fact the Saints attacks are meant to be physical they certainly don't make them look like it. Kind of funky when you have all of those specials effects and it just turns out they threw a punch.

They do throw the attacks. But, keep in mind this version is not following the real StS, so who knows what DiC may come up with. If you've seen the original you can spot all the huge differences.

[musouka]

Some are physical, some are definitely not. But, I guess one of the reasons for such stylized moves is because they're easier to reuse/animate than martial arts sequences.

Anyway, yes, this is where the show starts "going somewhere". (Though, if you feel you MUST drop it, there's really no point in you hanging on...)

[DianaGohan]

Chasing Down Some Weak Black Armored Knights in the Kinghts Of The Zodiac "Battle For the Gold Cloth" Episode Review.

I must admitt, this episode is giving me some feigning care about this series. At least the part with the Knights easily smacking down those minions of Phoenix and getting peices of the gold cloth back. The rest... not that good. And while I will complain about this until I die (or stop watching the show) leave it to DIC to edit out all the real fighting in a fighting anime. Dragonball was never this bad. I give this a B.

[A SAint]

Their moves are punches, except its speed can be really fast that it seems to be beams of power. With the exception of some saints like hyoga, his diamond dust is more of a freezing kind of a power blast, while seiya's pegasus meteor punch is really several punches which move very fast.

[A SAint]

Bwahahahaha ! I don't know if this episode was meant to be funny or not, but it was. This is so sad... Amusing, but sad.

Anyway, it's nice to see the show actually going somewhere now, but since things are just getting started after seven or so episodes you have to wonder whether or not it's too late ? I'll keep watching 'cause I want to actually see what I read about, but still...

Also, despite the fact the Saints attacks are meant to be physical they certainly don't make them look like it. Kind of funky when you have all of those specials effects and it just turns out they threw a punch.

So what did you read about it?
I'm curious.

[Batmex]

Why can't they keep Ikky's training place's original name!?(Island of Doom instead of Death Queen Island)


I mean they don't want kids to hear the word death in any context!?

[saki]

Why can't they keep Ikky's training place's original name!?(Island of Doom instead of Death Queen Island)


I mean they don't want kids to hear the word death in any context!?

Seemingly, all *death* is removed from the Dic virsion. I would like to know how Cancer guy change his name. :D

One thing I've noticed was, Dic developped the relationship Miho and Seiya. From their conversation, they looked boyfriend and girlfriend.
I thought, originally, they are just a friend. Miho shows some implied feeling to Seiya, but Seiya rather focuses on his sister at this point.

[Batmex]

Seemingly, all *death* is removed from the Dic virsion. I would like to know how Cancer guy change his name. :D

One thing I've noticed was, Dic developped the relationship Miho and Seiya. From their conversation, they looked boyfriend and girlfriend.
I thought, originally, they are just a friend. Miho shows some implied feeling to Seiya, but Seiya rather focuses on his sister at this point.

Dic's Death Mask potential names will be:

Cancer Crab Mask, Doom Mask

[Ikki D LEO]

Dic's Death Mask potential names will be:

Cancer Crab Mask, Doom Mask

Don't give any ideas to DIC U know that they'll use anything just to go around the word :evil: DEATH :evil: ooppss I said it I gotta go am scared know :(

[lostrune]

Bwahahahaha ! I don't know if this episode was meant to be funny or not, but it was. This is so sad... Amusing, but sad.

Yeah, the dubbing was so bad, but it becomes extra funny especially when combined with that goon's explanation of why Ikki turned bad in Doom Island ("there's a reason it's called Doom Island and not balloon island or something"). I mean, we here thought of the same thing about why Princess Siena and her bodyguard were surprised Ikki turned bad last week - ya sent him to Doom Island, ya idiots! So that goon just put to words what we had in mind. :D

Anyway, DiC's dub of Sailor Moon still managed to rise above its mediocrity and found its place with fans. I wonder if KotZ could pull it off....

[Batmex]

Anyway, DiC's dub of Sailor Moon still managed to rise above its mediocrity and found its place with fans. I wonder if KotZ could pull it off....

No.

In adition to bad dubing and music they are editing the fighting from a FIGHTING anime, you think that will make the show successful?

[A SAint]

With kids perhaps?

[Batmex]

With kids perhaps?

Mental retarded kids, who will beleive that people bleed blue.

[A SAint]

Check this out

http://www.whitecygnus.com/Poll.htm

Apparently there are 19 of them, not sure if they are making fun of it though!

[Batmex]

Check this out

http://www.whitecygnus.com/Poll.htm

Apparently there are 19 of them, not sure if they are making fun of it though!

Or maybe it's 19 mental retarded kids. ;)

[Dragon_Shiryu]

Anyway, DiC's dub of Sailor Moon still managed to rise above its mediocrity and found its place with fans. I wonder if KotZ could pull it off....

Let me put it this way. I saw it more than a decade ago, and what made me love the series was the characters and the music. Now, when DiC got out their personalities and made them moronic characters which I want to strangle, I lost all hope, and the music is not there to boot. They've altered it too much. Turning great characters into morons who keep babbling nonsense to try to make it hip = total opposite results.

[A SAint]

Is this the only show in CN history to have green or whatever colour blood??

[Ikki D LEO]

Or maybe it's 19 mental retarded kids. ;)
Now there are 20 retarded kids, :confused:
What's up w/ all those retarded kids, :rolleyes:
If anyone knows one hit him in the back of the head twice. :evil:

[Dragon_Shiryu]

Is this the only show in CN history to have green or whatever colour blood??

I don't know, but I don't think I've seen another one. But at least to me, that's a minor gripe. The main gripe with me is how they've altered the story and characters. Calmed, wise Shiryu, is now a jerk. Cold, cunning Hyoga is now a buffoontalking like a moron. Seiya sounds like a nerd that wants to be badass. Shun was pure hearted, but in this version he's a wussy that keeps giggling like a school girl, and Ikki now laughs every 5 seconds (and sounds soooo forced) and talks as if he were the devil plus making little corny jokes too ("what kind of evil minions are you?"). Gosh, even though DiC is butchering it, they could've at least tried to make their version watchable.

[Dragon_Shiryu]

LOL, there's also a rambling against DiC's version in their page. http://www.whitecygnus.com/Knights2.htm

[Batmex]

I tottally agree with the guy, hey, the newest Newtype Magazine will feature a Free Saint Seiya DVD.

more info at www.japanhero.com

[lostrune]

Anyway, DiC's dub of Sailor Moon still managed to rise above its mediocrity and found its place with fans. I wonder if KotZ could pull it off....
Let me put it this way. I saw it more than a decade ago, and what made me love the series was the characters and the music. Now, when DiC got out their personalities and made them moronic characters which I want to strangle, I lost all hope, and the music is not there to boot. They've altered it too much. Turning great characters into morons who keep babbling nonsense to try to make it hip = total opposite results.

Yes, but you're merely making a descriptive statement about what DiC does to the original St Seiya. My point was I'm making a relative statement by comparing it to DiC's dub of Sailor Moon. Many of the things said about KotZ now were also said about Sailor Moon some years back; yet SM still found a place.

So I'm wondering if KotZ could do what Sailor Moon already did, or why not? Is it because times and expectations have changed? Yet the old DiC's dub of Sailor Moon is still appreciated by some up to now.

[LightAngel]

I'm really trying to like this, and I know I would if the dialogue wasn't so cheesy! All the little modern expressions just make me want to throw a pillow at the tv scream. I've managed to catch a few episodes, and if it wasn't for all the lame lines I could get into this more. I'll probably keep on watching it for awhile, but I'm guessing I should also try the uncut dub when it comes out.

[Dragon_Shiryu]

Yes, but you're merely making a descriptive statement about what DiC does to the original St Seiya. My point was I'm making a relative statement by comparing it to DiC's dub of Sailor Moon. Many of the things said about KotZ now were also said about Sailor Moon some years back; yet SM still found a place.

So I'm wondering if KotZ could do what Sailor Moon already did, or why not? Is it because times and expectations have changed? Yet the old DiC's dub of Sailor Moon is still appreciated by some up to now.

That's basically it. Times have changed, the anime market has grown way beyond what it was at the time SM was brought here. What could have been passable back then, is frowned upon now. Read LightAngel's message. DiC just has not moved on with the times, they're stuck with an old mentality.

[musouka]

Also, adding on to what Shiryu mentioned, I think most of the time the reason people regard the Dic dub of Sailormoon with some measure of careful fondness is because they grew up with it. It's not because it was a great dub or anything.

However, as times have changed and we've been seeing a lot more anime on television, so have expectations.

Dic has not grown along with these times. KotZ is being dubbed like it was a late eighties/early nineties dubbed-for-TV anime. Or a cheesy cartoon where the good guys are expected to make "amusing" one liners during each battle and badguys are supposed to laugh evilly every ten seconds or so. (In other words, it's not Teenage Mutant Boys in Armor.) Now, I can already hear you refuting "but StS is an eighties cartoon!" Yes, it is, but not of that particular sort.

The way I look at it is this. Saint Seiya already has the stuff that appeals to little boys (and fangirls, but that's another story). It's got a lot of action. It's got lots of blood. It's got an easily followed plot, but with cool characters. The music, which has been kept in every country but this one I believe, has not been an issue once so far.

I don't understand Dic's method of operation. Yeah, I understand the blood has to go. That's fine. But as for changing the characters to fit preconcieved notions of "cool"...it just doesn't make sense. I really doubt a kid is going to turn on the TV and say "Wow! That blond guy is babbling something about his attack being colder than cold and calling the other guy dude a lot! Awesome!" And by changing the characters that much, I think Dic is underestimating the average intelligence of the kids demographic they're aiming at.

Another problem I have, with this paticular episode, was that they were so busy stuffing the characters' mouths full of quips--which was rather inappropriate as far as Shun's character is concerned for this arc--to actually let bits of the plot show through. This episode originally dealt partially with Ikki's motivation for what he was doing. However, almost all of these lines in the Dic version were changed. Not only does this frustrate the viewers that have seen the original, but it also doesn't work to build up any mystery or tension. Therefore, people don't have as much as a reason to continue watching.

[A SAint]

I'm really trying to like this, and I know I would if the dialogue wasn't so cheesy! All the little modern expressions just make me want to throw a pillow at the tv scream. I've managed to catch a few episodes, and if it wasn't for all the lame lines I could get into this more. I'll probably keep on watching it for awhile, but I'm guessing I should also try the uncut dub when it comes out.

Yep, you shld. No surfer dude whatsoever. Everything's really serious and down to earth in the original version. When i first saw the series i was like man how it be so serious, especially the part where shaina blocked the arrow for seiya and the dialogues they exchanged made me wanna weep.( i was a kid then)

[saki]

The way I look at it is this. Saint Seiya already has the stuff that appeals to little boys (and fangirls, but that's another story). It's got a lot of action. It's got lots of blood. It's got an easily followed plot, but with cool characters. The music, which has been kept in every country but this one I believe, has not been an issue once so far.

I don't understand Dic's method of operation. Yeah, I understand the blood has to go. That's fine. But as for changing the characters to fit preconcieved notions of "cool"...it just doesn't make sense. I really doubt a kid is going to turn on the TV and say "Wow! That blond guy is babbling something about his attack being colder than cold and calling the other guy dude a lot! Awesome!" And by changing the characters that much, I think Dic is underestimating the average intelligence of the kids demographic they're aiming at.



After watching eight episodes, yeah, I started to assume this series won't become popular even among kids unless Dic stops butchering that way...
I hope both ADV's DVD and comic books (a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1591162254/qid=1066784494/sr=8-6/ref=sr_8_6/102-5926521-3804917?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) won't stop to be released even after CN stops airing at 40th
episode.
In my opinion, sadly though, in order to make a big hit in anime market,
anime series have to appeal to kids. Make ton of kids say, "Mom, buy me
the Pegasus Cloth! Dad, buy me Dragon ice cream!" This provide money to
anime producing company to continue to release (It's proven by the fact
that Anime Seiya has extra characters such as Steel Saint and Crystal
Saint). This is why chapter Hades wasn't made in 1990, after kids
shifted their eyes to Samurai Trooper (The Ronin Warrior?) instead of
Seiya.
Yes, now Seiya's popularity have revived since last year, but it's
mostly among fangirls or anime otakus, not among kids. This is why
new Seiya movie is released in 2/14 next year but only 60 of movie
theaters over there. Not every single theaters in towns.
It's barely enough to support Toei to make later half of Hades' DVD for understandable retail price. And this
end up with HongKong bootlegs spread out, and their quolity is... you know.

[A SAint]

Yeah, the dubbing was so bad, but it becomes extra funny especially when combined with that goon's explanation of why Ikki turned bad in Doom Island ("there's a reason it's called Doom Island and not balloon island or something"). I mean, we here thought of the same thing about why Princess Siena and her bodyguard were surprised Ikki turned bad last week - ya sent him to Doom Island, ya idiots! So that goon just put to words what we had in mind. :D

Anyway, DiC's dub of Sailor Moon still managed to rise above its mediocrity and found its place with fans. I wonder if KotZ could pull it off....

The worse thing is, i've been to many different forums and obviously the response i've been getting for KOTZ is sh*t. Cheesy lines, bad animation, alien blood. I think the crucial thing is that the real plot hasnt settle and the galaxian war accomapanied by the edits are drawing viewers away from it. I hav some ppl saying that " i have a feeling that it is not the dub which makes it bad to watch and even the original version cant save". I think its really difficult to prompt people to get the adv's version without us encouraging them to do so, but even if we are willing, it is impossible to change all the viewer's mind - there are tons of them.

[raykremer]

So, is it the hack job dub that dooms KotZ, or just the fact that the tournament episodes of Saint Seiya before the gold cloth is stolen are plain old boring?

[Joneleth]

hack job, the tournament isn't boring! ( Seiya vs Shiryu rules!!!!^^)

[musouka]

Meh, the only fight in the tournament that really didn't appeal to me was Geki VS Seiya. Hyouga's was a bit boring too, I guess, but I thought it brought out his personality nicely for the most part.

I'll admit StS does start out a bit slow, though. Plus there's the problem with the fact that after the current arc about Ikki we go into some pretty bad filler for quite a few episodes. (Oh no! Not the killer mosquitoes!) Those are probably the two biggest knocks against the series.

However, once it gets into the meat of things, it's really a completely different show. And there's at least enough to keep you watching it even through its less than glorious parts.

[Batmex]

hack job, the tournament isn't boring! ( Seiya vs Shiryu rules!!!!^^)


OH HELL YES!

once again DIC stripped that fight of its drama, excitement and suspense with cheesy lines, edits and music.

[Sketch]

Frankly I don't mind the name change much and the actors aren't all horrible. The biggest problems are the dialogue and music changes and the excessive editing of attacks.

I hear ADV's dub isn't very good either so you know what I say?

Scrap both dubs and give the series to Funimation. Who knows how to dub an and edit an old anime well. Give Knights of the Zodiac DB style edits (well the good kinda anyway, that Piccolo thing was just awful), keep the original music, and keep the script true to form. They could release both the edited KotZ and the uncut Saint Seiya with good scripts and excellent VA's (Funimation does infact have very good VA's especially girls but there are many good boy VA's).

Then air that weekdays on Toonami while Viz continues to put out the manga (which will also be called Knights of the Zodiac according to the press release).

If Funi can't handle it (they do have big series to finish) then give it to Bandai, Viz, or a lessor known company like Media Blasters.

Heck man freak'n 4KIDS could have done a better job! Say what you want about YGO but Shaman King and Sonic X are very well edited in comparrison.

Infact that's not bad idea... in theory. I could see that on the Fox Box for a while, but I hear it gets too violent eventually.

[Dragon_Shiryu]

I kinda like the tournament episodes in the original, mainly for the introduction of the characters and some nice meaningful parts in there. When Seiya saves Shiryu from death was a nice part, but all that feeling was lost in KotZ (of course, Shiryu was "losing his powers" :P). StS is not perfect, but what series is? BTW, I've heard more positive reports about ADV's dub. Most people say the voices are quite good, and that there's only a few problems like misspronouncing some names (and they misspelled Shaina's name as "Shina"). Then again, compared to DiC's dub almost anything can sound good :P, so I'll wait and judge for myself.

After watching eight episodes, yeah, I started to assume this series won't become popular even among kids unless Dic stops butchering that way...
I hope both ADV's DVD and comic books won't stop to be released even after CN stops airing at 40th
episode.
In my opinion, sadly though, in order to make a big hit in anime market,
anime series have to appeal to kids. Make ton of kids say, "Mom, buy me
the Pegasus Cloth! Dad, buy me Dragon ice cream!" This provide money to
anime producing company to continue to release (It's proven by the fact
that Anime Seiya has extra characters such as Steel Saint and Crystal
Saint). This is why chapter Hades wasn't made in 1990, after kids
shifted their eyes to Samurai Trooper (The Ronin Warrior?) instead of
Seiya.
Yes, now Seiya's popularity have revived since last year, but it's
mostly among fangirls or anime otakus, not among kids. This is why
new Seiya movie is released in 2/14 next year but only 60 of movie
theaters over there. Not every single theaters in towns.
It's barely enough to support Toei to make later half of Hades' DVD for understandable retail price. And this
end up with HongKong bootlegs spread out, and their quolity is... you know.

It's no surprise the main support for StS right now is young adults and beyond, and not little kids. Most of the StS fans are in their very late teens and beyond, with the majority being between 20-40 years old. But the support is still huge, the Hades DVDs sold well, and that's also why the Hades ovas were made, and the new movie is being made, because they do have a market. As for this side of the world, I'm sure ADV wouldn't have picked the series if they didn't know it could sell at least decently. They have to analyze the series they license, and picking such an old and LONG series would be too risky if they weren't sure they could still benefit from it.

The worse thing is, i've been to many different forums and obviously the response i've been getting for KOTZ is sh*t. Cheesy lines, bad animation, alien blood. I think the crucial thing is that the real plot hasnt settle and the galaxian war accomapanied by the edits are drawing viewers away from it. I hav some ppl saying that " i have a feeling that it is not the dub which makes it bad to watch and even the original version cant save". I think its really difficult to prompt people to get the adv's version without us encouraging them to do so, but even if we are willing, it is impossible to change all the viewer's mind - there are tons of them.

There'll always be people who say that kind of thing. But I wouldn't be surprised if many of them started watching anime not long ago, so they're spoiled by the animation quality of, say, Cowboy Bebop. I've seen the cases, and many that were judging CN series said the ones they disliked the most were Lupin, original Gundam when it aired, etc.

Now, there's also the elitis ultra shoujo fans. The kind that sees that a series that has any sort of action and suddenly say "Ohh this is like DBZ". And I say this because a moderator from some forums I visit is exactly like this (he keeps insulting Naruto fans, BTW).

And then, there's the crowd who just may not like the concept, that's something unavoidable. Then again, users on forum boards are not representative as whole, heck, we are a minority, so we don't really represent overall sales and trends of the market.

[Sketch]

Calling Naruto like DBZ is only correct on maybe three levels...

They are both incredibly marketable and quite popular, they are both Shonen animes based on Manga from the Weekly Jump, and they are both fighting animes... and that's where the line is drawn.

Though I love DBZ I must admit at first glance it's quite shallow. So calling Naruto like DBZ is a terrible insult and that person should be "drug out on the street and shot" multiple times.

[A SAint]

The tournament wasnt boring, it was kind of a bulid up towards the next plot and introducing ikki. But i guess the tournament fight's animation is kinda old school which to some people can be a bit of a bother.

[Ikki D LEO]

The tournament wasnt boring, it was kind of a bulid up towards the next plot and introducing ikki. But i guess the tournament fight's animation is kinda old school which to some people can be a bit of a bother.
The animation aren't just ol' school, they R horrible and very inconsistent, and don't get me wrong I love SS and all but lets be realistic "the tournament" is old and boring. The only good thing is that is over and the series is gonna begin to pick up.

Besides this topic do U guys know already that the new SS movie title will be "Tenkai-Hen-Jôso", don't know what it means but U can read the article in the link below
http://cyna.net/591.html (it's in french) :(

[A SAint]

The animation aren't just ol' school, they R horrible and very inconsistent, and don't get me wrong I love SS and all but lets be realistic "the tournament" is old and boring. The only good thing is that is over and the series is gonna begin to pick up.

Besides this topic do U guys know already that the new SS movie title will be "Tenkai-Hen-Jôso", don't know what it means but U can read the article in the link below
http://cyna.net/591.html (it's in french) :(

Yep, the artwork was poorly done, but i still like hyoga's fight and the part where shun was circled by the chains while the music played, i called it andromeda the musical ;)

[foncedé_o_sky]

It's no surprise the main support for StS right now is young adults and beyond, and not little kids. Most of the StS fans are in their very late teens and beyond, with the majority being between 20-40 years old. But the support is still huge, the Hades DVDs sold well, and that's also why the Hades ovas were made, and the new movie is being made, because they do have a market. As for this side of the world, I'm sure ADV wouldn't have picked the series if they didn't know it could sell at least decently. They have to analyze the series they license, and picking such an old and LONG series would be too risky if they weren't sure they could still benefit from it.

sure, adv thought there was a market.
But they also assumed that part of the market would be builded by the TV show.
Actually i think DIC s work ll do the contrary.
Without Dic, some people could say " oh, a new serie on dvd, i heard some cool stuff about st seiya being a classic and all, let s give a try to the 1st and maybe 2nd dvds".
Now with Dic's kotz, they won t have the benefit of the doubt, they ll say"oh, don t buy that, i know this crappy show, it s inconsistent, no plot, corny characters etc.."
Same for the toy bizness, i don t see people buying toy of a show they despise.


So the major pb is Dic, let s just put a bullet in Dic's head, stop airing kotz and maybe it ll work.

[Batmex]

So the major pb is Dic, let s just put a bullet in Dic's head, stop airing kotz and maybe it ll work.

Going to set a H-bomb at DIC's HQ tonight, anyone interested meet me at 3 blocks from there.

[Dragon_Shiryu]

The animation aren't just ol' school, they R horrible and very inconsistent, and don't get me wrong I love SS and all but lets be realistic "the tournament" is old and boring. The only good thing is that is over and the series is gonna begin to pick up.


Well, I did like some parts abput the tournament, like the introduction for Shiryu and Hyoga. There's a catch in the part you say "The good thing is that the series is beginning to pick up". Everything starts to fall into place in the real version. DiC's version seems to be going backwards. They're omitting the plot and replacing it with corny lines. And seriously, the biggest draw in Ikki's little arc is when his past is explained, and we see the murder of Esmeralda, how he was forced to kill his master, etc. That won't be in DiC's version. I don't know what crap they'll come up with, but I'm saving a groan for that case :p

[Dragon_Shiryu]

sure, adv thought there was a market.
But they also assumed that part of the market would be builded by the TV show.
Actually i think DIC s work ll do the contrary.
Without Dic, some people could say " oh, a new serie on dvd, i heard some cool stuff about st seiya being a classic and all, let s give a try to the 1st and maybe 2nd dvds".
Now with Dic's kotz, they won t have the benefit of the doubt, they ll say"oh, don t buy that, i know this crappy show, it s inconsistent, no plot, corny characters etc.."
Same for the toy bizness, i don t see people buying toy of a show they despise.


So the major pb is Dic, let s just put a bullet in Dic's head, stop airing kotz and maybe it ll work.

The announcement to shop it for TV came months after it was licensed. Heck, in animeondvd an ADV representative said "We're working with Saint Seiya, KotZ has nothing to do with us" (geee, I wonder why he said that? :p). There's also a little hope, the first uncut episode will be as a sampler in November's edition of Newtype, so at least a 100,000 people can preview the original version. There's bound to be some people that'll like it.

[A SAint]

The announcement to shop it for TV came months after it was licensed. Heck, in animeondvd an ADV representative said "We're working with Saint Seiya, KotZ has nothing to do with us" (geee, I wonder why he said that? :p). There's also a little hope, the first uncut episode will be as a sampler in November's edition of Newtype, so at least a 100,000 people can preview the original version. There's bound to be some people that'll like it.

LOL, me wonders too. I think that's great way to introducing sts to people, at least it comes free to them with the purchase of newtype. Went thru, some webpages,

DVD bonus contains mythology behind StS, it that gonna be the hypermyth?

The universe started with a great bang....

[foncedé_o_sky]

DVD bonus contains mythology behind StS, it that gonna be the hypermyth?

i don t think so, just casual mythology.

Going to set a H-bomb at DIC's HQ tonight, anyone interested meet me at 3 blocks from there

i d gladly help but i live in france.
so i l ll just wish you good luck and send you good thoughts.

[Batmex]

No problem just send us a french nuke via mail :D