3D Popeye... WHYYYYYYYYYYY?

[SirLemming]

As if color Popeye wasn't bad enough, now there's 3D Popeye!
(If you don't know what I'm talking about, read the Toon Zone main page news.)

I can't imagine how disturbing this is going to look.
I mean, even a CGI-yet-2D-style Popeye would look wrong, but 3D is just too far. Why does it seem that everyone except animation executives understands the reasons why recent CGI movies have done better than recent 2D-animated movies? 3D animation is not always the best option! It makes me sick...

[Bakasama]

Oh I don't know, pre Famous style violence might look cool for 3D Popeye.

[The Lizard]

I actually like popeye, and I'm kinda looking forward to this. Besides, I'm sure it will be funny, after all....Paul Reiser is writing :)



-The Lizard :D

[Wesyeed]

Boy oh boy. Popeye's done it all. He's been a comic. A black and white cartoon. A color cartoon. A live action moivie. And now he's CGI.

:D Teh power of S pinach.

[SirLemming]

I actually like popeye, and I'm kinda looking forward to this. Besides, I'm sure it will be funny, after all....Paul Reiser is writing :)


I like Popeye too, which is why I'm so horrified. And the fact that Paul Reiser is writing does nothing for me, because... well, obviously, he didn't write the original. And he doesn't strike me as the kind of person who would be perfect for the job of reviving Popeye. I doubt that anyone living in this era (myself included) can successfully capture the offbeat humor (not quite comedy) of Popeye, or any "old stuff" for that matter. These are different times, and what worked back then won't really work now (like the simplicity of the plots and the lapses in logic). So it'll have to be something different, and I say why bother?

[PeppeRaskell1]

Would you prefer 3D Popeye or Popeye BABIES?

I'm not making that second one up: just this past summer at my local Wal-Mart
("Ngehhhh...Where else?") I saw a line of babies and "infinks" wear featuring the Popeye characters (Popeye, Olive, et. al--didn't see Swee'Pea, though) depicted as "babies and infinks."

PeppeRaskell1
"...And you thought Baby Looney Tunes or Baby Felix was bad..."

[Jundaunted]

Would you prefer 3D Popeye or Popeye BABIES?


Ditto here.

Popeye was pretty rad in the Fleischer toons. Popeye better kick some ass in the new toon (no politically-correct crap please) since that what I like about the old Popeye.

However, I was always annoyed by Olive Oyl's character design in the strips and the fact that her Famous Studios-look is shunned for it. It never made much sense for Popeye and Bluto to fight over an unappealing stick figure, whereas in the Famous Studios toons, she was actually attractive. I hope they go for the Famous Studios-look in the 3D cartoon.

[Nin-Nin69]

http://smilies.networkessence.net/s/cwm/cwm/eek2.gif




I'm shocked. Very shocked.http://mysmilies.creativesell.net/contrib/blackeye/SHOCKED.gif

[Daniel P]

CGI Pinocchio.
CGI Mickey Mouse.
CGI Donald Duck.
CGI Mighty Mouse.
CGI Betty Boop.
CGI Rocky and Bullwinkle.
CGI Casper.
And now...
CGI Popeye.

Now wait a second! Where's a CGI Tom and Jerry?!? How about some CGI Droopy? Where's the CGI Barney Bear? How can we not have some CGI Woody Woodpecker? No CGI Charlie Brown and Snoopy? And no CGI Looney Tunes, either? I feel deprived of my classic animation bastardizations. The studios better start churning these out faster, or else we might actually have to watch the old versions, which are traditional animation and full of extremely offensive gags. "Baby Looney Tunes" was a good idea, but they didn't make it in CGI, so it was totally ruined. http://forums.toonzone.net/images/smilies/mad.gif

[Mibbitmaker]

Famous-modelled Popeye, Olive, etc. :eek:

No.....no....

....

.....no.........

No, no, no.....

------------------

I always disliked the Olive redesign and Popeye not trading in his Navy whites after WWII.

More on-topic still, I have mixed feelings about a CGI Popeye (and why does that sound like "TGI Fridays"??? :D ). It might be interesting, but it's also another attempt to eliminate traditional 2-D animation.

CGI, in general, is great.

.......for an option, NOT a replacement!!

[Jundaunted]

I always disliked the Olive redesign and Popeye not trading in his Navy whites after WWII.

I never mind Popeye's change from white to black (I prefer black though), but I was always annoyed whenever I saw Popeye shorts and Olive would be potrayed as a fox in one cartoon and as a duckling in another.

The Famous design was an improvement to me and I'm sure Segar wouldn't have mind. Unless... Did he intentionally designed Olive to be ugly or was that his style? I don't remember any other females in the original Thimble Theatre strips aside from Alice the goon, Nana Oyl and Seahag and none of them were particularly appealing.

[Blue Priestess]

Unless... Did he intentionally designed Olive to be ugly or was that his style? I don't remember any other females in the original Thimble Theatre strips aside from Alice the goon, Nana Oyl and Seahag and none of them were particularly appealing.

What about Cylinda Oyl? She looked like a pretty flapper.

I still don't know how I feel about this. I'm not a fan of CGI or Paul Reiser. BUT I've been dying to see Popeye return from pop-culture limbo again. I... just don't know. :shrug:

Popeye Babies?! Yikes.

[SirLemming]

I always thought the Famous Studios cartoons looked all-around cheesy, not to mention being a lot less cool in general. The old Fleischer ones had a lot more character. I generally try to avoid being a disgruntled "old-school elitist" -- someone who claims that everything older is better for the very reason that it's older -- but I really can't see much good in the Famous cartoons.

Basically, if Popeye has whites in his eyes, it's not one of the better cartoons.

[Budman]

Sorry to be posted in such an old thread, but I'm a big Popeye fan and new to the forum.

I'm in Jundaunted's camp on this topic. If there has to be a CGI Popeye at all (and I wish there didn't), I'd like to see the characters modelled after the Famous Studios designs. If King Features Syndicate is as interested in reviving Popeye and getting the kids of today excited about him as KFS claims it is, I think the redesigns would be more appealing to the youth than funny-looking (and downright ugly) characters who look as if they are middle-aged, if not elderly, and stepped out of The Depression.

Also, the Famous Studios cartoons are my favorites. The Fleischer cartoons are indeed hilarious, inventive animated classics and I like them, too, but the FS films appealed to me more when I was a kid watching the theatrical shorts everyday on local TV stations. Part of their appeal was the very quality that Leonard Maltin criticizes them for, namely that they took themselves too seriously. Kids take ALL cartoons pretty seriously. To me, Popeye was an adventure cartoon series. And Famous Studios made me feel as though Popeye and Olive were in real dangers. It was only as I got older that I realized that the Famous Studios and Fleischer cartoons were also funny. The FS character designs and backgrounds seemed to me to be more modern and less "inner city," as well. This appealed to me because I was growing up in upstate New York in an area that was a cross between rural and suburban. So, Popeye and Olive seemed as though they could be my neighbors and friends. And speaking of getting older, the romantic triangle plots of many of the cartoons made more sense when Olive was a babe and portrayed more as a sweet young thing and less of a spinster-ish, gangly whiner, and Bluto and Popeye's other rivals were handsome and smooth so that they could actually tempt Olive away from the sailorman. Also, Olive's FS redesign, which included her actions, attitudes, and voice - it became more like Betty Boop - and the romantic, even sexy, scenes and plotlines of many FS films all helped jump start my puberty and I even would occasionally watch the cartoons during my college and post-grad years. Others who have corresponded with me via my website and because of my columns in The Official Popeye Fanclub News-Magazine have told me the same thing.

As to how Segar meant Olive Oyl to be portrayed, it must be admitted that Segar could draw pretty girls when he wanted to and Olive Oyl was not one of them. However, in one storyline, he put her in a slinky dress and had her apply make-up and, suddenly, every male in the strip was after her. Also, in the Segar strips, Olive, even looking as she always did, had a steady stream of suitors. Some were funny looking, but some were normal and/or handsome, probably to provide a humorous contrast to Popeye. Some of the suitors were golddiggers, some were female-starved, but some were just normal, well-adjusted males interested in wooing her. In one strip, Olive is seeing three guys at once, including Popeye, so one holds her right hand, one her left, and one her foot! And Segar, in a western plot, made Olive a dance hall girl who brought the male customers in. So Segar himself was inconsistent with Ms. Oyl. Did he mean her to be funny looking, even ugly, especially when compared with other girls? YES (sometimes)! Did he mean her to be super attractive and desireable? YES (sometimes)! Bud Sagendorf, who did the strip much later than Segar, also was inconsistent in his treatment of Olive. His strips could be full of "Olive is ugly" and "Olive can't get a guy" jokes, but he also, in some storylines, had all types of males, from street vendors to cowboys to ghosts putting the moves on her! When Olive would break up with Popeye, she always found another willing beau (and not just Brutus) within a day or less! In one Sagendorf created comic book, Popeye is going away for the day and appoints Swee'Pea as a "Girl Guard" to keep all the men away from Olive!!!!

[wrenchien]

cause everything evolves, including popeye.

maybe they'll even show him coughing up blood after a real bad battle until he crawls near a spinach farm and falls into a whole pile of it.

and maybe they'll render olive not so flat chested :anime:

maybe they'll even have some funny animations go off in his arms relevant to the new era.

maybe bluto will use his brains a lot more.

who knows?

what i do know is, that spinach alfredo pizza is pretty good, if you can find a good pizza buffet place. but otherwise, stay away from spinach, eat fruit instead if you must. otherwise you'll be beating up people with beards and longing for flat chested ladies a bit too much for the asylum to take. :)

it's real hard for massively swollen forearms to punch out of a straightjacket.

[SirLemming]

cause everything evolves, including popeye.

maybe they'll even show him coughing up blood after a real bad battle until he crawls near a spinach farm and falls into a whole pile of it.

and maybe they'll render olive not so flat chested :anime:

maybe they'll even have some funny animations go off in his arms relevant to the new era.

maybe bluto will use his brains a lot more.

who knows?

what i do know is, that spinach alfredo pizza is pretty good, if you can find a good pizza buffet place. but otherwise, stay away from spinach, eat fruit instead if you must. otherwise you'll be beating up people with beards and longing for flat chested ladies a bit too much for the asylum to take. :)

it's real hard for massively swollen forearms to punch out of a straightjacket.

Ha ha, that's some good stuff. Maybe they'll try to make it more socially relevant.

Like addressing why exactly those 4 kids alternate between being Popeye's nephews and his children, at least in dream sequences. How Freudian!

And what the heck is Sweet-Pea anyway? Is Popeye a single father? A babynapper? Or worse?

Perhaps Bluto will finally learn that "no means no" and respect Olive Oyl as woman.

Popeye may be forced to come to grips with his spinach addiction.
"It... it makes me feel like a big man... Ah-ka-ka-ka-ka..." (crying)

Bluto will recognize his obesity, realize that he's ruining his life, and become suicidal. But then he will find the strength to do something about it.


On a very special episode of... Popeye The Sailor Man.

[Budman]

Ha ha, that's some good stuff. Maybe they'll try to make it more socially relevant.

Like addressing why exactly those 4 kids alternate between being Popeye's nephews and his children, at least in dream sequences. How Freudian!

And what the heck is Sweet-Pea anyway? Is Popeye a single father? A babynapper? Or worse?

Perhaps Bluto will finally learn that "no means no" and respect Olive Oyl as woman.

Popeye may be forced to come to grips with his spinach addiction.
"It... it makes me feel like a big man... Ah-ka-ka-ka-ka..." (crying)

Bluto will recognize his obesity, realize that he's ruining his life, and become suicidal. But then he will find the strength to do something about it.


On a very special episode of... Popeye The Sailor Man.

"on a vey special episode of....'Popeye The Sailor Man'."
LOL! Good one, SirLemming!

The cartoons were very inconsistent with the identity of Swee'Pea. Was he Popeye's son? Olive's cousin? Popeye's son but for some reason he stays at Olive's? Unfortuantely, the answer is ALL OF THE ABOVE, depending on which cartoon you are watching at the time. In the comic strip, Swee'Pea was Popeye's adopted son and stayed at his place. Popeye was a single dad.

Likewise the nephews were Popeye and Olive's sons in the dream sequences of two cartoons, were Popeye's nephews who nonetheless had their own bedroom at Olive's in MISTER AND MISTLETOE, and varied in number as time went on until there were just two.

Let's face it, nobody involved in making the theatrical cartoons ever dreamed that they'd be shown over and over again through the years as a body on TV, so continuity wasn't really all that important to the creators. Whichever interpretation of Swee'Pea or the nephews fit the storyline and/or budget of an individual cartoon was the one that was used.

[Budman]

cause everything evolves, including popeye.

and maybe they'll render olive not so flat chested :anime:

maybe bluto will use his brains a lot more.

what i do know is, that spinach alfredo pizza is pretty good, if you can find a good pizza buffet place. but otherwise, stay away from spinach, .

Popeye even evolved under Segar. Popeye started out with the tough, uncouth, independent spirit we love him for, but was more of a hothead and less of a hero. He was actually an anti-hero who would just as soon punch you as look at you. When the kids of that era began taking to Popeye (something Segar and his wife never expected to happen), the newspaper syndicate told Segar to tone Popeye down and make him more heroic and somewhat more of a role model. Segar did. Popeye evolved under the Fleischers, too. In his first screen appearances, he was the anti-social tough guy that he was in the early comic strips. Later he became "our hero" and a friend to children and dogs everywhere. And it was actually the Fleischers who first put Popeye in the white suit and they portrayed him in several cartoons as an "out of it" incompetent who needed spinach in order to function in life and do his duties. These are things the FS cartoons are criticized for, but the Fleischers started it. As Jack Mercer (voice of Popeye and writer for both Fleischer and FS) explained it, the point was that Popeye was a good guy and would only fight when backed into a corner or pushed too far. Unfortunately for the likeability of the character, sometimes the bulk of a given cartoon was him being backed into that corner or pushed too far, unlike Bugs Bunny who also wouldn't strike out unless he was first persecuted but had the bulk of his cartoons portraying how he was smart, confident, and skillful enough to turn the tables on his tormentors/pursuers.

What I can't stand is when evolution totally violates the characters, as was the case of the Hanna-Barbera Popeyes. Popeye and Bluto not allowed to punch each other??? Olive and Alice The Goon in the army???? Popeye and a sweat suit-wearing, frizzy-haired Olive married with a teenage son (not Swee'Pea) who hated spinach??? Popeye giving mini-lectures on ecology and the importance of getting along??? Popeye and Bluto and Olive as cave people??? Not to mention the sort of reverse evolution of the Hanna-Barbera films where the look of the Fleischer characters was adopted without any of the manic energy and inventiveness of those classic films. Why make everyone look like Fleischer characters if you aren't going to do Fleischer-like stories?

(Even though I would prefer the FS looks of the characters for the CGI production, I'm pretty sure the comic strip versions will be used, as those are the versions that King Features Syndicate owns and is interested in pushing for licensing purposes. That's probably why the H-B Popeye cartoons went back to the "old look" as well. It was probably the look KFS approved.)

Actually, Olive was really stacked in PARLEZ VOUS WOO, and in scenes from THE ISLAND FLING, SNOW PLACE LIKE HOME, MESS PRODUCTION, POPEYE AND THE PIRATES, and probably a few other FS cartoons that are escaping me at the moment, she had an attractive bustline. Also, in the KFS made-for TV cartoon, SEA NO EVIL, a stylized interpretation of Olive Oyl in a bathing suit gave her an hour glass figure (including a bustline) and shapely thighs!!!

One thing I liked about the FS cartoons was that Bluto and Popeye's other rivals were smart, sneaky, and often very skilled seducers and conmen. And they were handsome body-builders, not obese guys who couldn't last in a long fight. They weren't just blowhard bullies who threw their weight around, and so they were more of a challenge for Popeye and more of a temptation to Olive.

I agree about the spinach alfredo pizzas!

[SirLemming]

What I can't stand is when evolution totally violates the characters, as was the case of the Hanna-Barbera Popeyes. Popeye and Bluto not allowed to punch each other??? Olive and Alice The Goon in the army???? Popeye and a sweat suit-wearing, frizzy-haired Olive married with a teenage son (not Swee'Pea) who hated spinach??? Popeye giving mini-lectures on ecology and the importance of getting along??? Popeye and Bluto and Olive as cave people??? Not to mention the sort of reverse evolution of the Hanna-Barbera films where the look of the Fleischer characters was adopted without any of the manic energy and inventiveness of those classic films. Why make everyone look like Fleischer characters if you aren't going to do Fleischer-like stories?

Wait a minute -- there were Hanna-Barbera Popeyes? Are you sure you don't mean Famous Studios?

[Budman]

Wait a minute -- there were Hanna-Barbera Popeyes? Are you sure you don't mean Famous Studios?

No, I mean Hanna-Barbera. The H-B Popeye cartons were made, and aired on CBS, in the late '70s and on into the '80s.

Famous Studios, while stretching and perhaps twisting some of the classic characters and situations, still rooted them in Segar's original ideas IMHO. I make a case for this in the "Essays" section of my Popeye site (http://www.mtcnet.net/~bierly/popeye.htm) in the essay entitled "The Long Shadow Of Segar." But I know not all Popeye fans agree with me, and that's okay.

If anyone wants to see what the redesigned FS Olive Oyl Jundaunted and I have mentioned looked like, you can go to the section of my site with Olive pics, http://www.mtcnet.net/~bierly/olivebeauti.htm .

[Budman]

If anyone wants to see what the redesigned FS Olive Oyl Jundaunted and I have mentioned looked like, you can go to the section of my site with Olive pics, http://www.mtcnet.net/~bierly/olivebeauti.htm .

Oops! i gave the wrong address! Sorry! It's http://www.mtcnet.net/~bierly/olbeauti.htm .

[Ssrn53]

I like both the Fleischer and EARLY Famous Studios Popeye shorts. The very early Famous Studios Popeyes (around 1943 - 45) were very Fleischer like in plot and feel. Famous studios Olive was vast improvement in design. The Fleischer Olive was totally unattractive and there was no way I could see anyone fighting over her affection. The Famous Olive was still skinny but had some curves and was given heels instead of the stocking like boots of the Fleischer design. The best Famous studios shorts were made between 1942 and 1950. Everything from plot to animation quality began to decline after 1950 probably due to shrinking budgets. I'm sure everyone agrees that everything after the Famous Studios era definitely wasn't worth watching.

[Budman]

I like both the Fleischer and EARLY Famous Studios Popeye shorts. The very early Famous Studios Popeyes (around 1943 - 45) were very Fleischer like in plot and feel. Famous studios Olive was vast improvement in design. The Fleischer Olive was totally unattractive and there was no way I could see anyone fighting over her affection. The Famous Olive was still skinny but had some curves and was given heels instead of the stocking like boots of the Fleischer design. The best Famous studios shorts were made between 1942 and 1950. Everything from plot to animation quality began to decline after 1950 probably due to shrinking budgets. I'm sure everyone agrees that everything after the Famous Studios era definitely wasn't worth watching.

I agree about Olive. Olive's curves and footwear during the Famous era did help to make her attractive.

And even though I am a Famous Studios Popeye fan, I also agree that, in general, the cartoons after 1950 suffered. There were some good cartoons from that era, but only about a dozen or so. A self-declared Fleischer fan wrote to me after seeing PRE-HYSTERICAL MAN from the '40s. He was amazed at the detailed backgrounds, animation, plot, and Olive's appeal as a character (and this wasn't even a cartoon where she was drawn at her best). He was used to thinking of FS cartoons as being inferior products. (I suspect he had only seen the '50s public domain cartoons that keep surfacing on cheap videos.) He said that if all FS cartoons were like that one, he would become a fan.