View Full Version : SVES Talkback: Rurouni Kenshin - Tragedy on a Stormy Night (Spoilers)
Killtacular
08-30-2003, 09:28 PM
There's really no point watching this episode on TV. Get it on DVD. On TV it will be near-incomprehensible.
G1Ravage
08-30-2003, 09:31 PM
Matt is absolutely correct.
Regardless, buy the next two DVDs anyway, since all the episodes kick arse, and they're worth having on DVD.
ShanNAblah
08-30-2003, 09:31 PM
Yeah but to know how there going do it makes you want to watch it
Mugen
08-30-2003, 09:36 PM
LOL, Sojirou is happy to die.
Animation Otaku
08-30-2003, 09:42 PM
While I'm sure a lot of blood was cut out, I was surprised with what they left in. More later, but I am surprised about all of this.
Roger Smith
08-30-2003, 10:01 PM
this episode was good.. and that was a perfect reason to kill his adoptive family and why was kenshin saying Sojiro what happen then Sojiro says you dident protect me
MrBananagrabber
08-30-2003, 10:01 PM
There were a lot of edits, most of which I expected. Still, the story got through very well. This happens to be one of my favorite eps, it's unfortunate it jumps back into "OK, Now I'm ALMOST at the Shukuchi, but not really!". I think there's only one ep of the Soujirou battle left, right?
Powerful and moving episode. I'd like to see it uncut on DVD.
And our foolish cousins think Rurouni Kenshin "isn't that great" and that "it be better if Kenshin killed people." Fools.
Spidey2099
08-30-2003, 10:03 PM
Well, the story actually made it through, yay!
By the way, is Soujiro's new voice the same who does Ed from Cowboy Bebop?
Great episode, I'm glad it wasn't "near-incomprehensible" like Matt said it would be.
Roger Smith
08-30-2003, 10:06 PM
is Sojiro going to die?
Soujiro made me nearly cry with the "why didn't you protect me" thing... I'm such a softie... :(
Mackenzie Rainelle
08-30-2003, 10:11 PM
I think we all agree Soujirou was completely correct in taking out his 'family', the bastards.
G1Ravage
08-30-2003, 10:16 PM
Well, the story actually made it through, yay!
By the way, is Soujiro's new voice the same who does Ed from Cowboy Bebop?
No.
is Sojiro going to die?
Wait and find out. You will know next Saturday.
It's a shame that the "blood-curdling" screams were taken out; they really made the episode. ;)
Any-who, here's the preview for next week's episode:
"Two scars: Kenshin with one on his cheek, and Sojiro with one in his heart. The last battle between them became a direct collision of ultra god-like speed and Shukuchi. The battle will be decided in one fleeting instant.
Next time: A Duel With an Extreme Moment: Shuntensatsu Versus Amakakeru Ryu no Hirameki. You won't want to miss it."
Namuh
08-30-2003, 10:18 PM
This was a good episode, I'm glad that the story actually got through despite the edits.It was good character developement on Soujiro's part and we finally got to see why he acts the way he does.I'm looking to seeing how this ends! :anime:
Nimbleness
08-30-2003, 10:38 PM
Thanks to my perfect timing I fell asleep during the commercial before it start, and woke up to see 4 seconds worth of the ending :mad: .
Animation Otaku
08-30-2003, 11:11 PM
I really liked when Kenshin had those flashbacks and we started to see how the two of them could have been in different places. They were in similar situations, except Kenshin found Hiko, and Soujirou found Shishio. :(
This truly was a great episode. You learn Soujiro's not nearly as carefree as he appears to be.
Soujiro made me nearly cry with the "why didn't you protect me" thing... I'm such a softie... :(
:( Me, too.
This happens to be one of my favorite eps, it's unfortunate it jumps back into "OK, Now I'm ALMOST at the Shukuchi, but not really!".
I had no problem with this since he explained why.
I really liked when Kenshin had those flashbacks and we started to see how the two of them could have been in different places. They were in similar situations, except Kenshin found Hiko, and Soujirou found Shishio. :(
So true... Shows how much a person's life can change from the people they meet... To be honnest, I don't think Shishio seemed all that evil in this episode compared to Soujiro's "family." Sure, he killed some guys at the beginning, but after that... He comes out and tells Soujiro he's a bad person, he shares his advice with him (as wrong as it may be), and seems to treat him kindly. Still an evil man, of course... But a strong one. And if you're strong you live. If you're weak you die.
purplehairedwonder
08-31-2003, 12:15 AM
Soujiro made me nearly cry with the "why didn't you protect me" thing... I'm such a softie...
Me too. It was really touching to hear him say that.:(
This was a nice episode, definately going to need it on DVD. Sojiro really had a screwed up childhood, and I can hardly blame him for taking out his family.
I really liked when Kenshin had those flashbacks and we started to see how the two of them could have been in different places. They were in similar situations, except Kenshin found Hiko, and Soujirou found Shishio.
Yeah, I really liked that. It just goes to show that the people you meet in life can really affect how you end up living your life. It's an interesting concept.
Anyway, great episode, and next weeks looks to be great as well.
G1Ravage
08-31-2003, 12:44 AM
The DVD to get is called "Innocence and Experience".
Also, pick up the one after it, called "Fire Requiem", which finishes off the Kyoto arc.
Buy. NOW.
Wow. This episode was awesome. Woulda been better on Toonami, but still awesome!
G1Ravage
08-31-2003, 01:04 AM
Wow. This episode was awesome. Woulda been better on Toonami, but still awesome!
You've got to be kidding me.
ClockStomper
08-31-2003, 01:09 AM
You've got to be kidding me.
In it's awesome-ness or "better on Toonami"-ness? Because it wouldn't be any more edited on Toonami, the edits we see on SVES were made for Toonami, they didn't know the series would be moving. So everything on the SVES run would have aired on Toonami weeks ago (even the repeated use of the word "sexy").
Good episode. Bad guys with human motivations are the kind I like, rather than "I want to rule the world".
In it's awesome-ness or "better on Toonami"-ness? Because it wouldn't be any more edited on Toonami, the edits we see on SVES were made for Toonami, they didn't know the series would be moving. So everything on the SVES run would have aired on Toonami weeks ago (even the repeated use of the word "sexy").
Good episode. Bad guys with human motivations are the kind I like, rather than "I want to rule the world".
It fits better on Toonami. It sticks out like a sore thumb on SVES.
Spidey2099
08-31-2003, 02:43 AM
Originally Posted by Duke:
It fits better on Toonami. It sticks out like a sore thumb on SVES.
And plus, with the weekly airing, I'm afraid Kenshin's starting to turn into DBZ. No longer are the fights straight to the point, but drawn out to the point of insanity. Now I have to sit back and wait for the last episodes since I've already seen what's on the Soujiro DVD.
Pepperidge
08-31-2003, 02:47 AM
You realize the show was aired weekly in Japan?
Sampo
08-31-2003, 07:42 AM
Wow, I thought Anji's story moved me. Soujiro's story was heart breaking. Even though the edits did blunt the story abit and some scenes seem to jump around, it still got across. I guess hauling all those rice baskets strengthened his legs and helped him to attain the Shukuchi technique. I had mixed feeling about Soujiro slaying his foster family. On one hand, those jerks deserved to die. They were a HORRIBLE family for this child and they wanted to kill him. On the other hand, this helped burn Shishio's ideals into Soujiro's mind.
One step closer to the Shukuchi and Soujiro is running up and down the WALLS and flying across the ceiling. Man, Kenshin is in deep trouble as his attacks can come from anywhere. What's even worse is that Kenshin seems to be more concerned about the misguided boy instead of his defense... At the ending of this episode, it looked like he was wide open for an attack.
PearlRose86
08-31-2003, 05:05 PM
Geez, I really felt for Soujiro during this episode, and I really can't blame him for what he did to his "family".
And, although you could tell it was edited, it wasn't glaringly apparent, and the story was not unintelligible. Put me in the group that almost cried/did cry when hearing to Soujiro's childhood.
Great episode...
Wow, I thought Anji's story moved me. Soujiro's story was heart breaking.
You took the words right outta my mouth.
-Maggie
DarkPoet89
08-31-2003, 09:51 PM
Hi Guys!
Well I must say, I was very impressed with how this episode was handled. I was worried that it would be so horribly butchered that nobody would know what was going on (and that would have made me sad because this is one of my favorite episodes). But though there were things that were cut out, which was expected, the main plot still came through, and for that I am happy. (I should have more faith in Cartoon Network)
Well, Soujiro's heart-wrenching story has now been told and everyone knows why he always smiles. The first time I heard him explain why, I felt a couple of tears run down my cheek. Poor baby (He's my favorite character in RK)
Oh, one thing I have to point out: Did anybody notice the butterfly trapped in the spider's web and the ants eating the dead dragonfly? Great symbolism there, truly great symbolism!
Mugen
09-01-2003, 12:43 PM
Here's the edit list for this episode: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/columns/edit-list.php?id=235
Can't say I'm surprised.
Great episode. Getting to see Soujiro's past was cool. It sucked about that family he had to stay with. Great fighting scenes. I am definitely looking towards the conclusion of this battle.. :D
William C. Maune
09-01-2003, 04:46 PM
"The brutality that characterized this episode and the past that turned Soujirou into the emotionless killer we know was nowhere to be found."
While there were a lot of edits, I still can't believe Kyle Pope made the above statement. I think they left in a heck of a lot more than most people were expecting them to. The brutality may have been toned down, but you could pretty much tell exactly what was going on. I never expected to hear a kid talking about being beaten, etc. on Cartoon Network.
"The brutality that characterized this episode and the past that turned Soujirou into the emotionless killer we know was nowhere to be found."
While there were a lot of edits, I still can't believe Kyle Pope made the above statement.
I can. It's his job to complain about Cartoon Network edits.
Spidey2099
09-01-2003, 07:20 PM
You'd think Kyle Pope would have his time better spent petitioning for Kenshin to be moved to Adult Swim, where every episode would be unedited.
Mackenzie Rainelle
09-01-2003, 10:15 PM
I agree the only thing I didn't understand was why Soujirou was living with the family and it appears they didn't explain that anyway. You could tell exactly what was going on and I thought it was still pretty dramatic. It's not like they turned the family into kind loving people.:sweat:
Nya? I thought I heard one of them mention "the old man" having had a kid by another woman, and that was Soujirou.
Tapout
09-02-2003, 01:39 AM
I agree the only thing I didn't understand was why Soujirou was living with the family and it appears they didn't explain that anyway. You could tell exactly what was going on and I thought it was still pretty dramatic. It's not like they turned the family into kind loving people.:sweat:
It was stated by one of the other sons that Soujiro was an illegitimate child (the father an another woman) and the family took him in because they were afraid of what people would think. Kind of them, wasn't it?
LightAngel
09-02-2003, 11:59 AM
Poor kid, no wonder why he is the way he is now. I can't believe his family was so evil that they would actually try and kill him. Still, it was a bit disturbing when Soujirou slaughtered them all. He had more than a good reason, but the look on his face kinda scared me. I feel so bad for him now, so of course he's probably going to die.
lostrune
09-02-2003, 01:53 PM
"The brutality that characterized this episode and the past that turned Soujirou into the emotionless killer we know was nowhere to be found."
While there were a lot of edits, I still can't believe Kyle Pope made the above statement. I think they left in a heck of a lot more than most people were expecting them to. The brutality may have been toned down, but you could pretty much tell exactly what was going on. I never expected to hear a kid talking about being beaten, etc. on Cartoon Network.
Isn't it ironic? :shrug:
Anime fans always complain that networks dumb down anime TV series because they don't give viewers (especially kids) enough credit to understand the situation. And here you have Kyle Pope not giving viewers enough credit to understand the situation despite the edits. If one believes viewers are more intelligent than given credit for, then one has to expect it too when things are dumbed down thru edits.
Dogasu
09-02-2003, 03:52 PM
"The brutality that characterized this episode and the past that turned Soujirou into the emotionless killer we know was nowhere to be found."
While there were a lot of edits, I still can't believe Kyle Pope made the above statement. I think they left in a heck of a lot more than most people were expecting them to. The brutality may have been toned down, but you could pretty much tell exactly what was going on. I never expected to hear a kid talking about being beaten, etc. on Cartoon Network.
They did leave enough of the story for it to make sense, but in all honesty, the Toonami edit was about as harsh as the Harry Potter books (y'know, the parts at the beginning when Harry's still on Privet Drive). And yes, all things considered, the episode was edited pretty reasonably. But you can't deny that the emotional impact was lessened quite a bit, which is why Mr. Pope said what he did.
I dunno, maybe I'm just getting tired of these Kenshin talkback threads turning into Kyle Pope-bashing threads, week after week. The guy has been doing this for a while, and I'm sure that if any of you did as many edit lists as he has, you'd be just as annoyed as he is at some of CN's editing practices. The truth is, most of the people who visit these boards visit Anime News Network and continue to read his edit lists week after week despite the fact that they complain about him nonstop. So he makes some completely out-of-line comments and has unrealistic expectations, yet you still read his columns to this day??? No one's forcing you to...
I know it's the trendy thing right now to join on the Kyle Pope-bashing bandwagon, but I think I'll pass, thank you very much.
Animation Otaku
09-02-2003, 05:46 PM
They did leave enough of the story for it to make sense, but in all honesty, the Toonami edit was about as harsh as the Harry Potter books (y'know, the parts at the beginning when Harry's still on Privet Drive). And yes, all things considered, the episode was edited pretty reasonably. But you can't deny that the emotional impact was lessened quite a bit, which is why Mr. Pope said what he did.
I dunno, maybe I'm just getting tired of these Kenshin talkback threads turning into Kyle Pope-bashing threads, week after week. The guy has been doing this for a while, and I'm sure that if any of you did as many edit lists as he has, you'd be just as annoyed as he is at some of CN's editing practices. The truth is, most of the people who visit these boards visit Anime News Network and continue to read his edit lists week after week despite the fact that they complain about him nonstop. So he makes some completely out-of-line comments and has unrealistic expectations, yet you still read his columns to this day??? No one's forcing you to...
I know it's the trendy thing right now to join on the Kyle Pope-bashing bandwagon, but I think I'll pass, thank you very much.
Yes, most of do read his edit lists because he does list edits correctly, I know I just wish he would save his comments about CN and WS for other columns. It's quite annoying when you just want to read about the edits.
DarthNuriko
09-02-2003, 06:07 PM
I agree. I read that for an edit list, not a soap box. Though I would have liked to see it unedited, it was a very brutal episode as is. You'd have to the dimmest bulb in the box to not be able to comprehend that Soujiro was being horribly abused and later snapped.
I was also curious as to how the family he was living with was related to him. They appear to be paternal family; I did hear the parts about mention of "the old man", that Soujiro wouldn't inherit the rice business it's "going to MY kids", and Soujiro said something about how they don't consider him their brother, but that didn't really answer any questions. The haggard woman was probably Soujiro's father's wife but the drooling drunk patriach of the family was constantly called dad by the three younger ones, so that didn't really answer how they were related to Soujiro. Did they ever say or am I just grasping for straws here?
William C. Maune
09-02-2003, 07:20 PM
"They did leave enough of the story for it to make sense, but in all honesty, the Toonami edit was about as harsh as the Harry Potter books (y'know, the parts at the beginning when Harry's still on Privet Drive)."
While some similarities can be drawn between this episode and Harry Potter, unlike this episode, the books never mentioned Harry Potter being beaten nor did Harry Potter ever receive death threats from his Uncle and Aunt that they intended to carry out.
"And yes, all things considered, the episode was edited pretty reasonably. But you can't deny that the emotional impact was lessened quite a bit, which is why Mr. Pope said what he did."
While I haven't seen the episodes uncut, I don't doubt that the emotional impact was lessened to the edits. However, Kyle Pope didn't say the impact was lessened, instead he said the brutality was nowhere to be found. That is taking the situation to the extreme and that is what I have an issue with.
"I dunno, maybe I'm just getting tired of these Kenshin talkback threads turning into Kyle Pope-bashing threads, week after week. The guy has been doing this for a while, and I'm sure that if any of you did as many edit lists as he has, you'd be just as annoyed as he is at some of CN's editing practices. The truth is, most of the people who visit these boards visit Anime News Network and continue to read his edit lists week after week despite the fact that they complain about him nonstop. So he makes some completely out-of-line comments and has unrealistic expectations, yet you still read his columns to this day??? No one's forcing you to..."
I find Kyle Pope's column an interesting read and I usually check whenever I he posts a new one. I respect most of the work he does. While I can't say I haven't questioned to myself anything he has said before, I believe this is the first time I have said anything publicly about his comments regarding a show's edits. Thus, I don't bash him week after week. I took issue with one statement he made because I didn't feel he was giving Cartoon Network any credit for how they handled they episode considering the standards and practices they have to work with. There was definitely a lot more cringe-inducing brutality left in than I was expecting to see.
raykremer
09-02-2003, 07:34 PM
There's really no point watching this episode on TV. Get it on DVD. On TV it will be near-incomprehensible.
Various people have been saying that about nearly every episode of RK since the Kyoto arc began. I've reached one conclusion. Anti-edit Nazis are full of crap. (Godwin's law be dammed!)
ClockStomper
09-02-2003, 08:18 PM
Various people have been saying that about nearly every episode of RK since the Kyoto arc began. I've reached one conclusion. Anti-edit Nazis are full of crap. (Godwin's law be dammed!)
Even in cases like Blue Gender?
Why be an extremist about the people you call extremists? Being polarized the opposite way dosen't change that you're the same as them.
Dogasu
09-02-2003, 08:47 PM
Yes, most of do read his edit lists because he does list edits correctly, I know I just wish he would save his comments about CN and WS for other columns. It's quite annoying when you just want to read about the edits.
Considering that Kyle Pope doesn't really HAVE any other columns (at least on the Anime News Network site), there really isn't anywhere else for him to make his comments. And besides, you can't expect the guy not to add little commentary here and there--if all he did was list edits without saying anything about them or the episode itself, he'd get very bored very quickly.
Besides, most of the time the comments that people get so upset about are placed at the very bottom of the list. So after reading the last edit, just click your browser's Back button before reading his commentary paragraph. Problem solved.
I find Kyle Pope's column an interesting read and I usually check whenever I he posts a new one. I respect most of the work he does. While I can't say I haven't questioned to myself anything he has said before, I believe this is the first time I have said anything publicly about his comments regarding a show's edits. Thus, I don't bash him week after week. I took issue with one statement he made because I didn't feel he was giving Cartoon Network any credit for how they handled they episode considering the standards and practices they have to work with. There was definitely a lot more cringe-inducing brutality left in than I was expecting to see.
I wasn't trying to call you out specifically or anything. It's just that lately, anytime anyone mentions Kyle's edit list for that episode (last week's was an exception, but check just about every one before that), a bunch of people start attacking the guy as if the fact that he even does edit lists offends some people. I mean, I read one post that said, and I quote, "It's a shame his parents met each other." I was saying that it was really unfair that this guy, who's been doing a service to otaku everywhere without getting paid, is getting so much slack by some of the members of this board.
Juu-kuchi
09-03-2003, 07:45 AM
I missed it on Saturday, but I downloaded the episode online out of interest. That was more worth it since I didn't like Soujirou. I've always thought of him as some happy-go-lucky prick that annoyed me. After seeing this episode, it's changed. Now I can actually sympathize and understand why he is what he is.
You gotta hand it to anime, one moment you're hating a character, and at the next moment they show you at story of his past or even him being different to change your opinion around for them.
lostrune
09-03-2003, 09:04 PM
They did leave enough of the story for it to make sense, but in all honesty, the Toonami edit was about as harsh as the Harry Potter books (y'know, the parts at the beginning when Harry's still on Privet Drive). And yes, all things considered, the episode was edited pretty reasonably. But you can't deny that the emotional impact was lessened quite a bit, which is why Mr. Pope said what he did.
That's not what he said. He said, "nowhere to be found."
Do you think it's nowhere to be found (if you haven't seen the original beforehand)?
I dunno, maybe I'm just getting tired of these Kenshin talkback threads turning into Kyle Pope-bashing threads, week after week. The guy has been doing this for a while, and I'm sure that if any of you did as many edit lists as he has, you'd be just as annoyed as he is at some of CN's editing practices. The truth is, most of the people who visit these boards visit Anime News Network and continue to read his edit lists week after week despite the fact that they complain about him nonstop. So he makes some completely out-of-line comments and has unrealistic expectations, yet you still read his columns to this day??? No one's forcing you to...
I don't get out of my way to bash anyone; I just speak when I have a comment. And I'll have you know I've been "corresponding" with Kyle since way before his edit lists, in the newsgroups, where he still posts his edit list (before it even gets uploaded to the ANN), so I don't even need to use the web.
raykremer
09-04-2003, 01:54 AM
Even in cases like Blue Gender?
Why be an extremist about the people you call extremists? Being polarized the opposite way dosen't change that you're the same as them.
Yes, even in the case of Blue Gender. I've not seen it before, and nothing seems particularly missing from the Adult Swim airings. So far, the show hasn't been ruined for me by not getting to see sex.
I'm not pro-edit by any means, but all this stuff about the edits removing the potency from the episodes, or keeping the plots from making sense, etc., just isn't true, and I'd like it if the anti-edit Nazis stopped trying to convince people that they shouldn't enjoy watching anime on television.
Nazis? The very basis of Nazism is to censor that which hurts the status quo. Don't call us Nazi's.
And to top it off, there's no point having the show on if it's edited beyond understanding. I stopped watching Kenshin on Toonami when I saw the first Kyoto arc edit list.
Animegirl
09-04-2003, 05:12 PM
It was a very good episode. I have always hated Soujiro and his little smile. But in this episode I really understood why Soujiro smiles lol. He has the most touching past out of all the people that work for Shisho.
Chrono1995
09-05-2003, 10:57 PM
You'd think Kyle Pope would have his time better spent petitioning for Kenshin to be moved to Adult Swim, where every episode would be unedited.
I wouldn't go that far. It's true many episodes would be uncut, but certain scenes of the Shishio fight...which I won't get into...just watch the uncut versions of episode 57, 58, and 60 to see what I mean.
This episode is brutal, very brutal. If you ever watch this one on DVD, don't be surprised if you wince at certain parts. It's still shocking even if you've read the edit lists multiple times.
That being said - the essence of the story got through, although I don't see what's so wrong with screaming.
Spidey2099
09-06-2003, 02:24 AM
Originally Posted by Chrono1995:
I wouldn't go that far. It's true many episodes would be uncut, but certain scenes of the Shishio fight...which I won't get into...just watch the uncut versions of episode 57, 58, and 60 to see what I mean.
This episode is brutal, very brutal. If you ever watch this one on DVD, don't be surprised if you wince at certain parts. It's still shocking even if you've read the edit lists multiple times.
That being said - the essence of the story got through, although I don't see what's so wrong with screaming.
Yes, I was able to catch a glimpse of Shishio's battle, and I'll say it again...he plays dirty. :mad: I think it's the sound effects that get me, but I think I'm going to have to stop right there to keep from spoiling anything.
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