Classic Cartoons on Adult Swim

[The Landstander]

With the recent cancellation of Toonheads and a general "dwindling down" of classic animation on Cartoon Network, shows that once populated the network now barely get any airtime.

Meanwhile, Adult Swim continues to grow, and has recently been announced to be expanding until 5 AM.

So, a connection is not hard to see. With the new time added with Adult Swim's expansion, combined with the fact that both Adult Swim and classic animation appeal to adults, the question comes up:

Are classic cartoons right for Adult Swim?

I'll leave it at that. DISCUSS.

[Corrado]

Sure, why not.

[pabcool]

As filler, I can easily see Rocky & Bullwinkle, ToonHeads, Late Nite Black & White and maybe even Popeye Show on Adult Swim early mornings. However, the WB characters will NEVER EVER EVER be on Adult Swim. Because of all the crap with the merchandizing, it'll be a cold day in hell before we see Bugs on AS. (Excluding, of course, ToonHeads)

[Artemis]

I hate when people end their posts with "discuss". Like they're commanding us or something. "DISCUSS!" What if I don't want to? You can't make me!


OK, now for something relevant. :P I think AS could provide the perfect oppurtunity to air them uncut and restored. Heck, a special presentation featuring some of the more "politically incorrect" akin to their Wartime cartoon special would be cool.

[Animation Otaku]

I would like that, but I don't really care for Popeye. But I understand that Lazzo is a fan, and it has a lot of other fans as well.

[Mugen]

Sure, why not? I mean, it would bring up the morale over at the Termite Terrace Board.

[Tienshin]

With the recent cancellation of Toonheads and a general "dwindling down" of classic animation on Cartoon Network, shows that once populated the network now barely get any airtime.

Meanwhile, Adult Swim continues to grow, and has recently been announced to be expanding until 5 AM.

So, a connection is not hard to see. With the new time added with Adult Swim's expansion, combined with the fact that both Adult Swim and classic animation appeal to adults, the question comes up:

Are classic cartoons right for Adult Swim?

I think the question as stated is formed in way that it channels an certain answer...that said.

No, I dont think classic cartoons fit with Adult Swim. There is a distinct reason why it is called Adult Swim, and it is not to air Saturday morning 'toons. Sure, adults watch the classic stuff...since that's what many grew up on, but how does WS spin dropping Popeye, Bugs, etc after filling viewers optical receptors with shows like Bebop, Trigun, Family Guy, etc? And isnt that why Boomerang was concieved...to give the classics a home?

Why not put them on Toonami? Or SVES for that matter? Adults watch those too.

Because it wouldn't make sense in either of those two instances, so why would it make sense for AS?

[Daniel P]

Classic cartoons are ideal for Adult Swim, since Cartoon Network doesn't want them anywhere else anymore. It's pretty sad when seeing a Droopy or Popeye cartoon is rare.

ROCKY AND BULLWINKLE would fit perfectly somewhere in there. Since there are *some* people who can't seem to have G-rated shows targeted at adults, I don't know why they couldn't show a couple classics at 5am or something. After all, that awful time slot isn't really much worse than any of the current classic's time slots.

The last time we saw rare cartoons on Cartoon Network was when they aired the Norm McCabe ToonHeads special in prime time a few months ago, with two black-and-white wartime cartoons (with VERY obvious references) airing uncut. Ever since then (and before that, actually) the cartoons seem to be avoided. The Tex Avery Show, which got good ratings (especially considering it had no advertising) and also a tribute to a cartoon director that almost every cartoon fan has respect for, was taken off the air. The Bob Clampett Show, which showed cartoons uncut, is no longer on at all. The Popeye Show, with 45 episodes, only airs once a week (in that wonderful 2am slot), yet Time Squad airs 5 times a week (although bad time slots) and I'm sure it has less than 45 episodes. ToonHeads has a whopping 65 episodes, yet it airs only twice a week. What's wrong here?

Boomerang is available to hardly anyone, and it isn't that great of a channel in the first place (after all, this is the channel that has month-long SCOOBY DOO marathons). I seem to notice a real lack of respect for the classic cartoons from people at some of the boards here. People don't realize that without Tex Avery, Chuck Jones, Friz Freleng, and all the other great directors, we wouldn't have the Cartoon Cartoons at all. Every show creator is a fan of some classic cartoon, often inspired by it, doing tributes to it. Classic animation is important and yet it is treated badly by Cartoon Network.

[William C. Maune]

However, Bugs, Popeye, etc. were not originally Saturday morning toons. In fact, I don't know if Popeye ever aired on Saturday mornings. They originally aired in movie theatres along with movies intended for adults. These aren't simply toons Adults enjoy for nostalgia such as the HB toons. Instead, these are toons that were made with adults in mind.

[Ferquin]

If anything, I'd want to see unedited and controversial classic cartoons on during Adult Swim. Like any WB ones where they lambast the Nazis or great Tex Avery cartoons with the disturbingly funny race gags. Now, mind you, I am not promoting hate or stereotyping of any kind! But I sure would like to see these old cartoons in their original glory. Hell, they used to show them locally with the rest of the cartoons on this cheap old kiddie cartoon show back when I was a grade-schooler and I turned out okay. The best chance to see these would be in the wee hours like 3 or 4 a.m. If they're not gonna show it to kids, then at least show it to adults with a sense of humor. Goodness knows that nobody but AOL/Time-Warner has the rights to these and they're just gonna rot away in the vaults. There's no other venue for these except for Adult Swim. If they can't show them here, then where else?

[William C. Maune]

I wouldn't say it failed, I would say it wasn't given a chance. You can't really tell if something fails in one week. Plus, I don't think nearly as many people would complain at 3 o'clock in the morning.

[Tienshin]

To clarify:

I understand how the classics were originally presented to the public, as lead ins for news reels, movies, etc in theaters...it was in an odd way an Adult Swim of those times. Minus the TV and the cards and beats.

I digress, I just don't see the correlation of classic toons that became Saturday morning mainstays...to AS. At all. I have seen many of the old classics that are now banned for one reason or another, and when I was young all that stuff went over my head...so seeing those unedited would be cool....but I think a different medium is in order.

[Mynd Hed]

Mynd Hed's Two Cents:

I think it would be wonderful if they put together a two-hour Toonheads special presentation for air on Adult Swim showing a whole bunch of uncut controversial classic cartoons including WWII era spoofs and old Tom and Jerrys that got cut, prefacing each short with an explanation of what was considered so controversial about them, and in the cases of the ones that were cut, why they were cut and why the things that were cut in them were considered okay by the standards of the time they were made.

But classic cartoons as a regular part of the schedule? I wouldn't complain, but I also wouldn't watch them. I'm not saying they don't belong there or that they're for kids or anything like that-- I don't consider myself knowledgable enough about classic cartoons to make that kind of judment. I'm just saying that I, personally, wouldn't watch them. Sorry.

[Kirby]

The theatrical cartoon's main audience were Adult Moviegoers (at least until the Left-wings and Parents got hold of them). While Parents hounded Walt Disney's early output (Yes, even in 1928) and demanded that Disney's cartoons would be sweet, wholesome and kid-friendly, The Warner Bros., MGM, and Paramount Cartoons got away with anything the Hayes Office (a lot stricter than today's MPAA) didn't object to. The Politically Incorrect Cartoons would be a good fit for AS (any cartoon that suffers from nitpicking during the day would). What I'm afraid of is the Damn Soccer Moms (because of the recent complaint about FLCL discussed earlier on this board). They'd probably stage an irrational Public outcry and their would be no more Classic Toons on AS.
Now if the offensive toons aired on A&E or History Channel as part of a documentary (with someone like Jerry Beck to put the toons in thieir proper context), That would be Best. But Adult Swim PIC classics are better than none at all.

[John Miles]

I still think the best place for classic animation is outside of Adult Swim. As much as I would like to see some uncut stuff, I just don't think WB is gonna go for Looney Tunes being shown in an adult-oriented block, with stuff they've been forcing CN to cut for years now. Plus, I still think kids should still be able to grow up with these great cartoons, and they should be shown during the day.

That said, if classic animation can't find itself anywhere else on the schedule, I wouldn't be against it airing on Adult Swim. I think it would create some interesting diversity. Adult Swim would be able to target the adult classic animation fan as well as the anime and comedy fans. But I think any showings of classic animation on AS should be in the same vein as Toon Heads and The Popeye Show with introductions to the cartoons, not just typical compilation stuff. Maybe they could even introduce each short in the black and white cards.

[Stripe]

I think it's a good idea. They should definetely ham up the "We're showing this great stuff because no one else wants to!" angle. Don't underestimate the power of nerds in large numbers, if this were to work everyone would have to rally behind it.

[Jimmy Kustes]

I don't see Adult Swim airing any classic cartoons with edits or soft classic cartoons (Popeye Show, Harvey Toons). It would be pointless, you got Boomerang. They are going to have to air the more risky stuff like Bob Clampett Show, but they need to have advertising. I say start up a new show like Bugs Bunny RAW carrots or something and really hype it up. It's all about marketing.

If not they might as well go back to showing Ripping Friends, Pilot Canidate, and Yu Yu Hakisho. I don't think you will see anything more tame than Inu-Yasha or Home Movies on AS.

[Parallax]

I'd love to see classic cartoons on Adult Swim. Like "Toon Heads, Tex Avery Show, Rocky and Bullwinkle, etc." That'd be great.

[Jersey Devil]

Looks like a plan to me.Great Idea.

[SNS]

Here's an idea, make a topic on this on the adultswim.com boards & see if it gets moved to babbling or incoherent babbling. If it does, then that shows that WS thinks your idea is rediculous.

[Animation Otaku]

Here's an idea, make a topic on this on the adultswim.com boards & see if it gets moved to babbling or incoherent babbling. If it does, then that shows that WS thinks your idea is rediculous.

No it shows that the mods at Adult Swim who are volunteer fans think your idea is rediculous.

[Scirel]

I think the classics should stay at the 5:00-6:00 time period. Despite the existence of adult swim, CN is primarily a kids network(except for that one block), and I seriously doubt any kid nowadays wants to watch episodes of tom & jerry, popeye, and looney toons over 20 years old.

They should stay where they are, so that the people who actually want to watch them( very few) can get it without interfering with any major blocks. Whether it is part of AS or not sems irrelevent,and I still hold the opinion of now that boomerang exists, THAT is where all the classics should go. That`s what the spin off network was created for, right? On boomerang, they could have a much more acessible timeslot.

[Daniel P]

so that the people who actually want to watch them( very few)Right, there are very few people who watch classics. Almost none at all. Even though Looney Tunes and Tom and Jerry have been consistently been getting satisfactory ratings this past month.

I still hold the opinion of now that boomerang exists, THAT is where all the classics should go. That`s what the spin off network was created for, right? On boomerang, they could have a much more acessible timeslot.Boomerang might have time slots for classics, but the channel itself is not that acessible.

Tell me, what would you do if Adult Swim was given a spin-off network that pretty much nobody has, and even though nobody has the channel, Cartoon Network clears off Adult Swim from the network anyway?

[SNS]

I still hold the opinion of now that boomerang exists, THAT is where all the classics should go. That`s what the spin off network was created for, right? On boomerang, they could have a much more acessible timeslot.

If Boomerang was carried by as many cable providers as Cartoon Network I wouldn't care if all the classic animation was moved over to it but unfortunately it is not.

[Teo]

I don't know if it'd work as adding the cartoons into Adult Swim, but maybe creating some sort of companion block that ran afterwards for another 3 hours. Something along the lines of their old Saturday morning lineup (anyone remember 8-9 years ago?) with lots of the Birdman/Galaxy Trio types of shorts and eps of Fantastic Four and all. Work in an hour of Toonheads reruns or something and you rotate around as many old shows as you wanted. I'd love to have that stuff running come 3 am instead of lame-o Powerpuff Girls. I'm still sad they quit running G.I. Joe at 2 am quite honestly.

Anyway, to cut myself off, I'm all for classic cartoons but there's no reason it would have to be called Adult Swim. Just call it Midnight Classics or some bettre name (not hard to do), give it some nice looking, inexpensive bumpers and call it good.

---
Gunnm

[DarthNuriko]

What I think is a neat idea (although it may or may not roll well) is showing shorts throughout AS. Instead of making a show where you have two or three shorts, show the shorts spaced out in between various shows. (Like show a short @ 11, then start a show @ 11:10, then a short @ 11:40, a show @ 11:50, another show, another short, etc... like that-- keeping some kind of set times so people who only watch a few shows can still catch their shows and not have an excuse to gripe... :p ) Shorts were lead-ins anyway. Sure it would pad the block somewhat, but the block was gonna expand anyway. And with all the shorts out there, it wouldn't get stale like those old Wonder Twins skits or the animals that sat in a bar. It could also lend itself to be a platform for premiere adult shorts.

Some of the ready-made half-hour showcases of classic shorts should get occassional runs on Adult Swim. I'd rather watch a show I loved that I haven't seen in ten years than a fourth consecutive rerun of anything else that's on the block.

In fact, I don't know if Popeye ever aired on Saturday mornings. And I can't say I know my Popeye, but I remember seeing it on Saturday mornings in the late 80's or early 90's. Whether those were classics or more recent to the era or whatever, I wouldn't know.

[Scirel]

Tom & Jerry gets good ratings? Never woulda guessed.
Anyway,as I said before, the 5 AM timeslot is best for those shows until boomerang becomes more fully acessible to the public.

[Daniel P]

Tom & Jerry gets good ratings? Never woulda guessed.Obviously it has to be getting some ratings to be the only classic cartoon on Cartoon Network that is still shown on weekdays.

In fact, it had the number 1 telecast in January, and it is not uncommon for Tom and Jerry to recieve a handful of top 100 telecasts monthly.

[Killtacular]

Why not put them on Toonami? Or SVES for that matter? Adults watch those too.
Because Toonami and SVES are genre specific, and Adult Swim is not.

[Tienshin]

Because Toonami and SVES are genre specific, and Adult Swim is not.

Really? So Adult Animation is not specific enough? And how is SVES genre specific? Genre "like" is more appropriate.

[Killtacular]

Fwpp! Right over his head.

Adult animation is not a genre. Comedy is a genre. Action is a genre.

Toonami is dedicated to Action. SVES is dedicated to Action. Adult Swim is not exclusive to a specific genre.

[Tienshin]

No "Adult Animation" isn't a "genre" but that's not the point. Perhaps being cheeky is not the best approach in this thread.

Going way back...the rationale for airing classic toons on AS seems to be that the big bad WS monster has grown and now all the oldies are getting pushed aside...so why not just put them on AS?!?!

And I have maintained that the integrity of the block would (and should be) called into question if that were to happen.

As for Toonami and SVES that was simply an attempt at appealing to common sense.

Maybe the better question is why didn't WS include classics already?

[sl4]

Maybe the better question is why didn't WS include classics already?

...because there was barely enough space for the shows already on AS? :confused:

[Killtacular]

Going way back...the rationale for airing classic toons on AS seems to be that the big bad WS monster has grown and now all the oldies are getting pushed aside...
No, the rationale is that WS and Mike Lazzo are the only people at Cartoon Network who still give a **** about classic animation made for adults. It's not the "big bad WS monster" but the "big bad Jim Samples & CN Schedulers" that have pushed oldies under the rug like they don't matter.

Putting them in Adult Swim would not only warrant attention, but it will garner respect from TV critics and that in turn warrants the attention of advertisers who put money into the front of Adult Swim which warrants the attention of Cartoon Network.

I disagree that Bullwinkle should be on Adult Swim because it was an all-ages program, but the Looney Tunes of the 40s-60s were not intended for children. Saying there's no problem in presenting the toons EDITTED to children, is allowing people to brainwash you. It's no different than if Sealab 2021 aired in the afternoon editted to TV-G. And just because Looney Tunes don't curse doesn't make this point less effective.

[Tienshin]

From who Matt? What advertisers aside from Worship Together, Veggie Tales, and other crap are even around to notice AS draws especially at 4AM?

I don’t know who Jim Samples is so I can’t speak to that

And again the old shorts (Looney Tunes for example) Were intended for adults damn near 60 years ago….big difference between society today and those guys who thought a full three piece suits were appropriate attire for a summer’s day drive in the country or a trip to the "Nickelodeon" Gargantuan differance.

[William C. Maune]

The fact that Casablanca was also released all those years ago doesn't make it any less adult today than it was back then.

[Tienshin]

The fact that Casablanca was also released all those years ago doesn't make it any less adult today than it was back then.

Yeah, but Casablanca is a different beast altogether.

[Karl Olson]

Jim Samples is the new head of CN. He's not as bad as Kellner, but he's not as sharp as Lazzo either.

[Yal]

I hadn't been writing for more than ten or fifteen years when I began to have the uneasy suspicion that I was becoming rather well known as a science fiction writer. In fact, I was even getting mentioned as one of the "Big Three," the other two being Robert A. Heinlein and Arthur C. Clarke.

It only got worse as the decades continued to fly by. We were not only cursed with prolificity, but with longevity, so that the same old Bing Three remained Big for nearly half a century. Heinlein died in 1988 at the age 80, but Clarke is still going strong as I write and, obviously, so am I.

The result is that, at present, when there are a great many writers attempting to scale the mountainside of science fiction, it must be rather annoying for them to see the peak occupied by elderly has-beens who cling to it with their arthritic paws and simply won't get off. Even death, it seems, won't stop us, since Heinlein has published a posthumous book and the reissue of his old novels is in the works.

Thanks to the limited space on the shelves of bookstores (themselves of sharply limited number), large numbers of new books of science fiction and fantasy are placed om them for only brief intervals before being swept off by new arrivals. Few books seem to manage to exist in the public view for longer than a month before being replaced. Always excepting (as some writers add, with a faint snarl) the "megastars."

"So what," I can hear you say in your warm and loving way. "So you're a megastar and your books are perennial sellers and the economic futures of yourself and your eventual survivors are set. Is that bad?"

No, it isn't bad, exactly, but that's where the guilt comes in. I worry about crowding out newcomers with my old perennials, about smothering them with the weight of my name...

-- Isaac Asimov, 1990
Do you really want to take time away from the likes of Home Movies and Big O so that Rocky and Bullwinkle can be reaired? To pull intelligent, adult animation off the air and replace it with the slapstick and puns that put cartoons into their current stereotypes and ruts?

The classics have their place on TV. On Boomerang, in historical retrospectives, we must always know where we've been. But not as cheap filler in the middle of the night, and certainly not in a cutting edge animation venue like Adult Swim. I don't doubt that Popeye would beat Reign in the ratings, but the art is better served by giving time to the folks pushing the envelope, even in the wrong direction, rather than padding the inheritance of someone whose grandfather was brilliant. There's no other way to find out where we're going.

[SSJPabs]

Well you can find just about anything online these days so it's not like you can't find interesting sci-fi that's obscure. Someone somewhere has heard of it and made a website to it or made it available for purchase. Besides I think anime already has a good start to shoving the classics off the summit of animation so there goes your analogy.

A nod back to the past wouldn't hurt, some of the original shows of Rocky and Bullwinkle, the Flintstones and Scooby Doo were like the comedies of the 50s and 60s only animated, the dialogue was the same. I don't see anything wrong with airing the original shows before they started becoming geared for kids.

I hate all things Scooby yet the first year or so I really enjoyed just because it wasn't nearly as juvenile as the later incarnations. I have to admit that when I saw the first few episodes of that and the Flintstones that I was shocked at how sophisticated they were and how different the modern incarnations are. I don't see anything wrong with putting the sophisticated shows on late at night (the extended schedule). There will still be enough room for cutting edge shows. Besides who is going to watch AS late at night? How small is the audience?

[All-Star 1.5]

The first few seasons of "Where Are You Scooby Doo" were classic becuase they could be somewhat scary ina very small faction and still funny. The Flinstones is another one that could work on AS late night. I really think that Looney Tunes from the 50's and 60's with all of their sterotypes and such would really work for AS late night.

I mean AS late night is only happening once a week anyway.

[Karl Olson]

The first few seasons of "Where Are You Scooby Doo" were classic becuase they could be somewhat scary ina very small faction and still funny. The Flinstones is another one that could work on AS late night. I really think that Looney Tunes from the 50's and 60's with all of their sterotypes and such would really work for AS late night.

I mean AS late night is only happening once a week anyway.

Actually, we don't if it's one night or all nights at this point.

[Lord Infamous]

The Flintstones and Scooby-Doo on AS? That's a horrifying thought, to me anyways. I'll always love me some Looney Tunes, and the uncut politically incorrect would be interesting to see. I think that AS has a more modern and fast-paced feel to it that might make some of these shows unsuitable. I'd rather they devote their time to putting brand-new shows and pilots on AS, than air shows like Popeye, Looney Tunes, or Tom and Jerry. Although with Adult Swim expanding to six hours, maybe seeing some of the classics might be better than double reruns.

[Daniel P]

Do you really want to take time away from the likes of Home Movies and Big O so that Rocky and Bullwinkle can be reaired? To pull intelligent, adult animation off the air and replace it with the slapstick and puns that put cartoons into their current stereotypes and ruts?I'm not even going to bother commenting on that... :rolleyes:

...because there was barely enough space for the shows already on AS? :confused:If there is barely enough space for shows on AS, why are they going to do the re-run schedule? Now there is certainly enough time on AS for you to get your adult shows and even throw a couple of classic cartoons in too. The re-runs are pretty much useless. I don't know of anyone that watches those "encore" presentations on Cartoon Cartoon Fridays.

[Animation Otaku]

The Flintstones and Scooby-Doo on AS? That's a horrifying thought, to me anyways. I'll always love me some Looney Tunes, and the uncut politically incorrect would be interesting to see. I think that AS has a more modern and fast-paced feel to it that might make some of these shows unsuitable. I'd rather they devote their time to putting brand-new shows and pilots on AS, than air shows like Popeye, Looney Tunes, or Tom and Jerry. Although with Adult Swim expanding to six hours, maybe seeing some of the classics might be better than double reruns.

No one's talking about the 1960's Hanna-Barbera crap. We're talking about stuff from the 30's and 40's that was (from what I understand) intended at adults. I'd be for it, personally.

[Zorak Masaki]

They could air it as filler if one of the movies ends early (thats what Comedy Central used to do when their movies were over and they still had to fill 10-20 minutes, theyd air filler, music videos, dr katz shorts, etc).

[Killtacular]

Yeah, but Casablanca is a different beast altogether.
No, it isn't. Wow, what a great way to avoid the argument.

[CaptainRed]

As weird as it is to me to agree with John Miles after the FLCL C&C, I'm with him on pretty much everything he said in here, but this point most of all:

... I still think kids should still be able to grow up with these great cartoons, and they should be shown during the day.

Looney Tunes, Popeye, Bullwinkle... I grew up with them just as I did Tiny Toons, Animaniacs, and Freakazoid. Apart from the feeling that they really don't fit the current aesthtic of AS, putting them in the block would be like locking them away from the kids that, while not originally intended for them, could take just as much enjoyment from watching them.

AS is an adult block. The shows on it should be there because adults are the ones that can take something from them. The vast majority of kids(were certain story elements not naturally a problem) would take little from shows like Bebop, FLCL, and Home Movies.

Yes there are elements of the shows like Bullwinkle that I can appreciate more now(realizing that Everett Edward Horton and Charlie Ruggles were the same people I'd seen in movies like Holiday and Bringing Up Baby has made it enjoyable in a whole new way). Yes I'd like the opportunity to see other cartoons that I barely or never saw as a kid(Bosco(sp... dang) and Honey). But that new enjoyment I get doesn't remove the fact that children can enjoy it, and I think the Bosco and Honey toons are probably also safe for younger audiences.

No, it isn't. Wow, what a great way to avoid the argument.

Casablanca actually is a rather different beast. It includes a rather interesting love triangle, some guy being shot down in the street(near the beginning, so it's not a spoiler >;¬b), further light gunplay, and, of course, Peter Lorre( :anime: ). It is one of the finest movies ever made, but I'm not so sure if the intervening years have made it so palatable to kids as the cartoons have become.

Yeah, the storytelling elements probably aren't a barrier, and the cast is dynomite(Claude Rains! Paul Henreid! ...and Peter Lorre!), but I think comedy has aged down better in this case than drama has.

*honks hugs and whatever else*
Cappy "Peter Lorre!" Red, who also has this to say: S.Z. Sakall!

[Aurochs]

How about this;

I'm not going to stay up until 3:00 at night so I can watch Bugs Bunny club a Hirohito caricature while shouting "damn Jap".

I think Adult Swim's purpose is providing fresh, new, and experimental adult animation. I'm not denying that some of those cartoons from the 40s were raunchy, the majority of them were. I'm not opposed to those shorts being aired uncut on Cartoon Network. I don't care if they're on at 5 in the morning adjacent to Adult Swim, but I think they should be separate from the block itself.

But I honestly don't give a damn. At 3 to 5 at night, the Cartoon Network can pretty much play whatever the hell it wants.

[Teio]

What may have appealed to the majority of adults from the 40's-60's may not necessarily mean that the majority of adults of this era will enjoy it as well. Unless their is an actual audience they could profit from then there is honestly no point for CN to keep classic cartoons on their line-up.

[Killtacular]

What may have appealed to the majority of adults from the 40's-60's may not necessarily mean that the majority of adults of this era will enjoy it as well. Unless their is an actual audience they could profit from then there is honestly no point for CN to keep classic cartoons on their line-up.
Jim Samples would like you. You'd probably become his next in line.

There is an actual audience to profit from, but how would we know if Cartoon Network doesn't even try? Shows like The Popeye Show and Bob Clampett Show are specifically targetting 18-34 year olds. Just because you don't appreciate them doesn't mean others won't.

Saying "it's not going to work" without having proof that it wouldn't work, is hollow.

Let Adult Swim TRY to air Popeye and Looney Tunes at 4 am, a time YOU'RE NOT LIKELY TO WATCH ANYWAY. Chances are, the immature viewers will backlash for a week and then give it up, and everything will be peachy. Given what will currently be airing at 4 am (an encore of Trigun or Bebop), you can't exactly call it precious real estate to begin with.

[Scirel]

It`s funny, I think we just proved that the shows should stay exactly where they are, at 5AM.

As duck dodgers shows, the looney toons still have quite a bit of steam left. CN should make more shows like duck dodgers that use the looney toons in the ways that we know and love them, but in new episodes, not stuff that hasn`t been new for decades.

Still, I really don`t see any modern audience for stuff like bosco and popeye on CN. They wouldn`t fit anywhere except toonheads.

[Daniel P]

It`s funny, I think we just proved that the shows should stay exactly where they are, at 5AM.Funny how TOM AND JERRY has a Saturday 5am slot but it's the same edited cartoons that air during the daytime. Funny that BUGS AND DAFFY has a Saturday 4am slot (which, of course, is a repeat of the LOONEY TUNES SHOW) but it's the same edited cartoons that air during the daytime. Funny that THE CHUCK JONES SHOW's only slot is 2:30am on Saturdays but it's the same edited car... I think you get the drift.

[Scirel]

dacp3, lighten up. I wasn`t talking about edits at all. IN fact, I never mentioned anything on either side of the edit debate. However, I may as well add in my two cents. The shows that show that early in the morning should be run unedited. there.

[Teio]

Matt, I just love how you missed my point :rolleyes:. When did I say that CN has to abolish Classic Cartoons because of my personal taste?

I'm basing this hypothesis on the idea of Cartoon Network giving classic cartoons a chance.

If shows like The Popeye Show and The Bob Clampett Show do gather a significant audience then so be it. I know those shows won't be bringing in Futurama or even The Brak Show type ratings; it would be moronic of me to want a show canceled just because it can't bring in that (ASC) type of ratings, but if they can't atleast justify their existance with a significant audience then it should be taken off the air. That goes for any show.

Besides, placing Popeye and Looney Tunes that early in the morning isn't going to help Classic Cartoons get any respect from CN executives.

[Scirel]

Besides, placing Popeye and Looney Tunes that early in the morning isn't going to help Classic Cartoons get any respect from CN executives.

This is exactly why boomerang was invented; so the clasics could appear at acessible timeslots without being on CN directly. Boomerang should be mainstream in a few years, so it`s really a question of patience more than anything else. If the classics lasted this long, then they cancertainly last a few more years.

[Daniel P]

Let's try to see this from my point of view.

Four or so years from now, there will be "classic Adult Swim" fans who are pissed off because Home Movies and Family Guy are off the air. All of the new Adult Swim fans will tell them to shut up and be content with the new Adult Swim, most of which the "classic Adult Swim" fans think is crap. Cartoon Network forms a spin-off channel, Classic Adult Swim, and then decides to take all of the classic Adult Swim, except for a couple Futurama repeats at 4am, off the air. All of the classic Adult Swim fans are happy until they find out that the new network is not widely available, and it may be many years before you can find it even on a basic digital cable package.

Well, some lucky few get the channel and notice that these shows have been edited for content! Meanwhile, the "new Adult Swim" shows have four-letter language and extreme violence, due to the loosening up of standards on modern animation.

Everyone's angry at each other, the new Adult Swim fans want the classic Adult Swim fans to shut up, the classic Adult Swim fans are angry that their favorite shows are being treated like crap.

The End.

---

Whether or not this is a likely scenario I don't care, but what's important is to recognize that people have different tastes, and people just get angry when their favorites aren't treated right. Nobody needs an extra re-run of FAMILY GUY three hours later, but if you would rather have that then a couple of classic cartoons, fine, people will just still be angry at each other.

[Carolina Red]

I really do think that the executives at the network have been giving this station a bad name by dumping all of these classic shows. I just don't think that they would fit in with the Adult Swim schedule and the style that the shows are presented in. Family Guy and Rocky and Bullwinkle don't mix very well (unless one of the characters shows up in Family Guy at some random moment :) )I still thnik that maybe if they replaced some of the airings of some of their more played original shows, then maybe they can throw in some classic stuff. Maybe a little promo for the Boomerang network where they show a program that airs on it or something, I don't know.

[SSJPabs]

I agree with John Miles.... AND Matt Wilson on the same topic? How is my head not exploding yet....

I'll just clarify and say that unless the animation shorts run unedited as they were originally created (hopefuly WB hasn't edited the masters of these, that would be a crime) they shouldn't run and I'd like a kind of introduction/commentary before each short or series of shorts just to get people to look deeper into the animation than the surface.

It's more than the old classics like Popeye that appeal to adults, I remember seeing a short about animals surviving after humanity destroyed itself in a war. I've only seen it twice in my life but I was astonished at the animation and it really affected me, especially the image of the last man on earth dying (he even dies on screen). I'd really really like to know more about that short, what the creators were thinking, why they chose the images they chose, etc.

[Jersey Devil]

Classics are fine.

[Ferquin]

It's more than the old classics like Popeye that appeal to adults, I remember seeing a short about animals surviving after humanity destroyed itself in a war. I've only seen it twice in my life but I was astonished at the animation and it really affected me, especially the image of the last man on earth dying (he even dies on screen). I'd really really like to know more about that short, what the creators were thinking, why they chose the images they chose, etc.

I think I know what you're talking about. It was one of those odd Harman pieces. It was shown on a Christmas Toonheads a while back. I'm sure they'll show that specific Toonheads again.

Anyway, I still think that the non-PC stuff should be shown late at night. Not everybody has Boomerang, and I want to be able to see unedited cartoons, albeit late at night, on TV. Maybe some bright kid who stayed up late might be inspired too. Goodness knows if I hadn't stayed up to watch Night Flight as a kid, I would have missed out on seeing Heavy Metal and Robot Carnival.

[moreysurf8]

I thought I might weigh in on this topic, if anyone cares. I would love to see some classic cartoon on AS seeing as how they've all but dissappeared from the schedule. Do they belong on AS? well...I mean they wouldn't exactly fit in with the rest of the shows, but I could really care less about that. I see no harm in trying it out now that AS is expanding to 5AM.

[Animation Otaku]

I agree with John Miles.... AND Matt Wilson on the same topic? How is my head not exploding yet....

Tell me about it. I can't believe I actually agree completely with dacp3 about something. It's mindboggling.

And I definitely think classics should get some AS time slots. Even if it is at 3 or 4 AM, the fans would be happy because they were going to record them anyways and will get them uncut(plus I'd love to see some AS cards for classic shows, be interesting to hear what they have to say) and the fans that think classics aren't adult will be asleep anyway since only 13 and 15 year olds and some parents(who don't usually watch AS) think that Looney Tunes and Popeye are for kids.

[Tienshin]

I thought that Turner himself mandated that uncut classics will not be aired again on his networks because of racial stereotyping etc. Or is that just the 11 banned toons?

[The Drizzle]

I thought that Turner himself mandated that uncut classics will not be aired again on his networks because of racial stereotyping etc. Or is that just the 11 banned toons?

I could swear he left the company earlier in the year. Maybe not. :shrug:

EDIT: I was right. (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=65194)

[Kirby]

Good Riddence. Not since Michael Eisner have i hated someone so badly.

[Jack]

It's more than the old classics like Popeye that appeal to adults, I remember seeing a short about animals surviving after humanity destroyed itself in a war. I've only seen it twice in my life but I was astonished at the animation and it really affected me, especially the image of the last man on earth dying (he even dies on screen). I'd really really like to know more about that short, what the creators were thinking, why they chose the images they chose, etc.

I think I know what you're talking about. It was one of those odd Harman pieces. It was shown on a Christmas Toonheads a while back. I'm sure they'll show that specific Toonheads again.

You're both thinking of "Peace on Earth," directed by Hugh Harman and released in 1939 by MGM. It was an anti-war cartoon - it even got nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize but didn't win. CN generally plays it around Christmas time.

In 1955 the cartoon was remade in Cinemascope (the ending was also changed, the last men kill eachother with atomic bombs) but Cartoon Network never plays that version. The remake is named "Good Will To Men."

[Aurochs]

Good Riddence. Not since Michael Eisner have i hated someone so badly.

What, Ted Turner wasn't that bad...I mean for a CEO.

[sammy_ siggles]

classic cartoons should stay outside of adult swim, but since cartoon network seems to be playing less of them every month, i would rather have them on adult swim then nowhere at all.

[Ben]

Unedited Looney Tunes would be a great addition to AS, as the granddaddies of adult cartoon humor. Maybe in the new Sunday slots?

And Ted Turner founded Cartoon Network. Just to remind you of where you'd all be if he hadn't been around (hint: not discussing AS). ;)

[candy17]

As filler, I can easily see Rocky & Bullwinkle, ToonHeads, Late Nite Black & White and maybe even Popeye Show on Adult Swim early mornings. However, the WB characters will NEVER EVER EVER be on Adult Swim. Because of all the crap with the merchandizing, it'll be a cold day in hell before we see Bugs on AS. (Excluding, of course, ToonHeads)

I agree. Toonheads, Popeye Show, Bob Clampett Show, and LNB&W would be perfect, especially if they added cartoons that CN would never usually air. As for Looney Tunes, I'm kinda on the fence about it. On the one hand, AS can air the heavily censored and the banned ones, but not the ones that usually air on "The Looney Tunes Show", "Bugs and Daffy", or "The Chuck Jones Show" (there may be some argument because IMO, the Pepe Le Pew cartoons are somewhat sexual, but it's tame compared to what I've seen on other toons).

Anyway, I was thinking of an adult cartoon calvalcade with cartoons that aren't by any of the major studios. You know, cartoons that have been in film festivals like Don Hertzfeldt's "Rejected" or at least the Robert Smigel "Saturday TV Funhouse" cartoons on SNL.

[Master Moron]

Well, some lucky few get the channel and notice that these shows have been edited for content! Meanwhile, the "new Adult Swim" shows have four-letter language and extreme violence, due to the loosening up of standards on modern animation.


Well, you know, if we're going to get into a discussion on edits, then you could say that just about every show on Toonami could air on Toonami could air unedited on Adult Swim. Now, I'm actually a little pissed that shows like Kenshin air on Toonami while they could air nearly uncut on Adult Swim. Actually, I wouldn't mind if shows like Sailor Moon and Dragonball aired on Adult Swim if it meant less edits. But, then again, I can see other people's points that these shows really don't belong on Adult Swim.

As for Toonheads, well, these shorts may have originally been intended for an Adult audience, but nowadays are they considered Adult? I mean, with so many modern spinoffs of the Looney Tunes characters like Duck Dodgers and Baby Looney Tunes, are these shows still considered adult? I mean, kids are going to watch Baby Looney Tunes and Duck Dodgers, so do they really want kids wandering over to Adult Swim to see Bugs Bunny using racial slurs? From what I understand, Cartoon Network wants to keep the Adult Swim audience and the regular young audience seperate. Which I'm guessing is why we haven't seen any Gundam series on Adult Swim lately. They don't want kids to see SD Gundam on Toonami and then wander over to Adult Swim to watch unedited Gundam Zeta or anything.

[Dogasu]

I just don't think that they would fit in with the Adult Swim schedule and the style that the shows are presented in. Family Guy and Rocky and Bullwinkle don't mix very well (unless one of the characters shows up in Family Guy at some random moment )

Well, on the episode that aired the other night Peter and Brian did a spoof of the Mr. Peabody shorts. :D

Anyway, I think uncut classic cartoons on Adult Swim is a great idea. Just air it later, that's all. People want the earlier hours to be reserved for the newer stuff, for the Family Guys and the Inu-Yashas out there. I know a lot of people don't even watch the last hour of Adult Swim as it is, so I doubt they'd care if they aired some classic Looney Tunes shorts at 2 in the morning.

I mean really, what else is Adult Swim going to do with the later hours of the night? They're certainly not going to have any premieres after 1am, as that would be ratings suicide. So we're basically going to have a few hours of nothing but reruns each night. That'll be fine for most of us, who will be asleep anyway, but for those who will actually be awake it'll be nice for them to have some unedited shorts from back in the day to spice things up. I know I'd much rather watch an episode of Looney Tunes that I wasn't able to see because of censorship reasons instead of an 80th run of Cowboy Bebop.

I really don't see how anyone would complain about this. The little Inu-Yasha kids who would probably go around calling these shorts "sto pid an d gay"* will be asleep long before these shorts start, and the few adults who will be awake will applaud CN for treating these shows right. So it's really a win-win situation.

*Not to stereotype Inu-Yasha fans, because I know that there are plenty of intelligent IY fans out there ;)