SVES Talkback - .hack//SIGN - Episode 20: "Tempest" (Spoilers)

[Romanesque]

Here's hoping I've got tonight's episode right... =x

Tsukasa starts to open up some more, enough to finally reveal one of his secrets. What and to whom? Have to wait and see. It'll be a shocking ending. :D

--Romey

[G1Ravage]

You tease. :moon2:

[Chuquita]

Omg, what a creepy ending! That was one of the creepiest clips I've ever seen! :eek:
*shudders*

[The_Dominion]

I am not me, ME IS ME, I am Lain....wait wrong anime there.

[G1Ravage]

THAT was weird. Can somebody please explain, in a non-spoilerish way if possible, what happened at the end of the episode? That made no sense to me.

[PearlRose86]

OMG! Poor Tsukasa... that had to have hurt. Someone wasn't very happy about Subaru's apperance, ne? And the girl, gone... this show just gets more and more interesting.

BT and Sora appear to be scheming again, this time 'with' SilverKnight. And the quest for the Key of the Twilight is on, again. I'm definetly looking forward to next week.

-Maggie

[The_Dominion]

Well by bringing Subaru to the place the voice no longer had control of what Tsukasa does, and just like a rebellious slave, the master no longer has a need for them. My guess was that was like a severe beating, to attempt to whip back into shape. Or perhaps it could be because the girl is gone and Tsukasa has fullfilled his role with her.

[Botman]

Maybe it's just me, but the opening theme just didn't feel appropriate for that last scene.

Also, what did Tsukasa say right before the show ended? I couldn't make it out.

[JTurner954]

Well I'm glad someone else knows about "the place" but as far as where the floating girl went, no idea. In fact, label me confused. Tsukasa isn't needed? "I am not me"? :confused: Well, I'm probably suppose to be confused so I'll give it a higher grade because of that. Solving the mystery behind the key of the twilight once and for all, it's about time. I like the new music BTW.


Overall grade: B

[Dark]

Honestly not one of my favorites, apart from the end scene where "Obsession" plays. That was awesome and sets the plot for the rest of the series up nicely... goona be a long wait until next week, huh? My question is why did Subaru leave him there alone? Wouldn't they have left or stayed toghether seing as they've been pretty inseparable the last few shows? I stil don't really understand why "silver knight" is part of BT's party, his aim was always getting rid of illegal characters, and it would seem that the "key" is about as illegal as it gets. Why would he want BT and Sora to have something that powerful?

[Tea]

Geez, BT and Sora are manipulative little snakes, aren't they?

[Solitude1]

Wow. More tender moments with Tuskasa and Subaru. More scheming with Sora and BT, and now Silverknight. And some good dialogue from Bear and Krim....oh yea, Mimiru was there too. :p

That voice creeps me out to no end...and what it did to Tsukasa. That's so harsh...Tsukasa is scarred enough already... :( ...

and yeah, what did he mean by "I'm not me?" As soon as I heard that line I thought of Lain :D ....

Next weekend better come soon.

Later

[Romanesque]

"I am not me."

Remember that Tsukasa's been losing his memory, parts of his mind, while he's been in 'The World', mostly due to his deaths. He's only been a shadow of himself, and that shadow is fading. And now, he's just been toasted...

This will be clearer by next week, but let's just say he's vegging in both worlds now...

My question is why did Subaru leave him there alone? Wouldn't they have left or stayed toghether seing as they've been pretty inseparable the last few shows?

Tsukasa wanted her to leave. He could tell something was wrong, and suspected that 'Mother' was angry. He apparently had justification for this, as we saw. Why didn't he book it out of there with Subaru? I'm guessing because he knows 'Mother' could easily send Maha and the Guardian out after him. He'd have to deal with her eventually, and running away would only upset her more.

Poor kid... First he's abused by his father in RL, and now he's abused again in 'The World'. =/

--Romey

[SNS]

For a second there I thought all his clothes was going to melt off...

[Dark]

For a second there I thought all his clothes was going to melt off...

Heh, this is SVES, not adult swim :D

[Grenzer]

Now that I've finally registered on this board, I have a few things to say:

1) Is it just me, or do they seem to make Ginkan out to be more of an idiot in the dub than he ever was in the original japanese version? The poor guy never was going to win a spot on the monthly top ten favorite male characters poll in Newtype Japan, but the English version made him out to be far more annoying and stupid than he was ever intended to be. I always felt that though the other characters in the show underestimated him because of his "stuffy" nature, he was more clever than BT, Sora, and the others were willing to give him credit for; the dub takes a lot of that subtlety away.

2) Lex Lang finally seems to be growing into his role as Crim; I'm sure GWOtaku is pleased with that.

3) Speaking of GWOtaku, I need to ask you a question. At the .Hack marathon back in May, why did'nt you wake me up when I fell asleep in the beginning of the second half? Geez, watching all this stuff now makes so much sense. Of course I would have been PO'ed at you for waking me up, but I must have looked like a fool in front of everybody. :sweat:

Oh well cest le vie :p

and finally...

4) Sora really needs to put more jibberish in his speech like in the Japanese version. It's just not quite as funny when he doe'snt end every other sentence with "pyongchu!".

So about the episode itself, one of the better ones of the series, but things don't pick up for another week or so, then we get to the really good stuff. B+

[zig973]

Was it just me, or after that thing in the sky exploded at the end (where all the important stuff happens, I can easily conclude), it looked like some sort of key-shaped object could be seen in Tsukasa's eyes? If so, could this have been the Key of the Twilight? (I was probably seeing things, but I can't find a screencap of this image, and I'd really like to see that scene again to make sure I wasn't seeing things)

[raykremer]

Holy COW!

Yeah, just, DAMN! And stuff.

[Jude Santos]

Now that I've finally registered on this board, I have a few things to say:

1) Is it just me, or do they seem to make Ginkan out to be more of an idiot in the dub than he ever was in the original japanese version? The poor guy never was going to win a spot on the monthly top ten favorite male characters poll in Newtype Japan, but the English version make him out to be far more annoying and stupid than he was ever intended to be. I always felt that though the other characters in the show underestimated him because of his "stuffy" nature, he was more clever than BT, Sora, and the others were willing to give him credit for; the dub takes a lot of that subtlety away.


well, i think Ginkan is VERY annoying in both the dub AND sub.

anyway, i dont think the dub made ginkan to be more of an "idiot". if anything, the dub made ginkan more stuck up

[SSJ_Gogeta]

WTF happened? If "Mother" Doesn't need Tsukasa anymore (what did she need him for anyway?), why didn't she just kill him? Looks like all she did was scorch his ass with some magic crap, and maybe take a few brain cells out.

Oh well, more crazy nonsensical stuff from .Hack//Sign :).

Just a few more episodes left!

[ClockStomper]

Oh man...Tsukasa...poor guy(gal?)....

[Romanesque]

WTF happened? If "Mother" Doesn't need Tsukasa anymore (what did she need him for anyway?), why didn't she just kill him? Looks like all she did was scorch his ass with some magic crap, and maybe take a few brain cells out.

She may not be able to kill him directly. If he dies within 'The World', he might still be able to respawn on his own. He'll lose more of his memory, of course, but he's gotten through it twice before (for better or worse). On the other hand, if he's completely traumatized, that should take care of him long enough to do whatever it is she needs to do. Should also discourage him from ever crossing her again. At least, that's how I interpret it.

Why she needed him will be explained, though I think there's enough info floating around for people to make an educated guess...

--Romey

[Morac]

While Tsukasa was being attacked he said "you can't erase her!" This confused me because I originally thought he was talking about Aura, but I now believe he was talking about Subaru or more precisely his memory of and feeling for Subaru.

This makes more sense since we already know portions of his memory have already been wiped. It would be a lot easier for "Mother" to control him if he simply didn't remember. That could also explain his final comment.

Can't wait to see how this plays out next week.


Oh and I love the interaction between Sora and Silver Knight (and Sora and BT for that matter). Sora is obviously much more skilled than SK which is why SK never goes after him. It apparently frustrates him as shown with him attacking the spot Sora was in after Sora left. Sora seems very wise for his age. He's young enough to have a bed time (as stated in an earlier episode) yet he comes up with all these plans and whatnot. He's also very skilled in game with only Krim being able to match (but not beat) him. There's just something about that PK that you've got to like :)

[Sampo]

Honestly not one of my favorites, apart from the end scene where "Obsession" plays. That was awesome and sets the plot for the rest of the series up nicely... goona be a long wait until next week, huh? My question is why did Subaru leave him there alone? Wouldn't they have left or stayed toghether seing as they've been pretty inseparable the last few shows? I stil don't really understand why "silver knight" is part of BT's party, his aim was always getting rid of illegal characters, and it would seem that the "key" is about as illegal as it gets. Why would he want BT and Sora to have something that powerful?

Here are my thoughts on Silver Knight's motives.

Since he already knows that Bear and the other players are actively searching for the key, Silver Knight might use this opportunity to have another encounter with Tsukasa and present him a personal “Thank You” for influencing Subaru’s decision to disband the Crimson Knights. Also he might use this alliance to get a chance to have access to this key, maybe he can use it for his own desires or destroy this item so that it would not affect The World.

[Seiken Izumi]

That episode was so cool...everyone joining up to end the search for the Key of the Twilight. Dialogue was good and more scheming with BT, Sora, and Silver Knight just makes this "last ditch effort" to find the Key of the Twilight even better. I of course have questions about the last creepy scene, but of course, you're supposed to be left with questions and I'm sure people who've seen .hack//SIGN can't tell you what happened without spoilers. Watch next week.

[TsuiTsui]

Whoa, this episode's ending was definately hard to watch when Tsukasa was being tortured by "Mother"! I almost could not bear seeing that scene! At first, I thought "Mother" was going to COMPLETELY erase or delete Tsukasa from The World! I am also speculating about Tsukasa's role, or rather his "usefulness" as "Mother" stated, now that Aura seemed to have disappeared somewhere. Anyways, the ending scene had left my mouth hanging wide open.

Finally, on the lighter side, I thought Sora was pretty amusing; he's quite a quirky character. I had to laugh out loud during some of Sora's comments. ^_^

[Sora Takenouchi]

::Sora's Emoticon Review::

Tsukasa's and Subaru's moments: :)

Tsukasa showing Subaru Aura's domain: :confused:

Bear/Mimiru/Subaru moments: :yawn:

BT/Krim/SilverKnight moments: :)

Sora's moments: :anime: (What can I say? I like the little PK!)

Seeing Tsukasa get shocked by "???": :eek:

Thinking his clothes were gonna get melted off: :o

Having to wait a whol 'nother week for next ep: :(

BTW, I also thought of Lain with the whole "I am not me" thing. ^^*

[Charles_G]

I prefered the translation from the fansub:
"I am nothing" over "I am not me"

[Demon_Child]

In this corner we have BT, Sora and Silver Knight and in the other corner we have Mimiru, Bear, Crim, and Subaru! Both teams are searching for the Key of the Twilight who will get it first?

This episode is not really going to be one of favorites. I'm really suprised that Tsukasa took Subaru to the place where Aura is. I'm also suprised Subaru and Mimiru talked to each other alone because they haven't really exchanged more then a few words before (that I can remember).

So Tsukasa betrayed the Voice and was punished. Poor guy he really didn't derserve that.

I prefered the translation from the fansub:
"I am nothing" over "I am not me"
I actually thought that he said 'I am nothing' in the dub first time I heard it....they are basically saying the same thing though

[GWOtaku]

posted by Grenzer:

Now that I've finally registered on this board, I have a few things to say:

1) Is it just me, or do they seem to make Ginkan out to be more of an idiot in the dub than he ever was in the original japanese version? The poor guy never was going to win a spot on the monthly top ten favorite male characters poll in Newtype Japan, but the English version made him out to be far more annoying and stupid than he was ever intended to be. I always felt that though the other characters in the show underestimated him because of his "stuffy" nature, he was more clever than BT, Sora, and the others were willing to give him credit for; the dub takes a lot of that subtlety away.

I'm not sure how clever he really is if he's dumb enough to team up with Sora and BT.... :p

2) Lex Lang finally seems to be growing into his role as Crim; I'm sure GWOtaku is pleased with that.

You know it.... :D

3) Speaking of GWOtaku, I need to ask you a question. At the .Hack marathon back in May, why did'nt you wake me up when I fell asleep in the beginning of the second half? Geez, watching all this stuff now makes so much sense. Of course I would have been PO'ed at you for waking me up, but I must have looked like a fool in front of everybody.

Oh well cest le vie :p


Um...the defendant claims ignorance of the crime based on the fact that he was too obsessed with .hack goodness. Yeah, that's it.

Wait, maybe I did nudge someone awake.....aaah, I can't remember....do you mean the 2nd half of the series (unlikely, or so I hope) or the 2nd half of the episode?

Well at any rate, if you don't mind, I'm very curious as to your identity--its too cool to meet another member of anime club here. :) On the off chance that its not in my profile or you haven't figured it out, this is Todd....

Oh yeah, get this--I found my AV adapter thingy, and it was buried DEEP in my backpack the whole time in a very small compartment. So we actually could've spared ourselves that whole ordeal in the beginning after all and seen it on the big screen after all....LOL. That'll teach me to keep all my equipment in someplace obvious, huh? Poor clark had to go through that whole ordeal with his PC....

Speaking of clark, wherever he is I bet he's going crazy over the possiblity of a Legend of Galactic Heroes DVD set being released in the states.... :D

4) Sora really needs to put more jibberish in his speech like in the Japanese version. It's just not quite as funny when he doe'snt end every other sentence with "pyongchu!".

Botcha, pomyu! BumYUM! *leap*

Yes, I must say I agree...... :)

So about the episode itself, one of the better ones of the series, but things don't pick up for another week or so, then we get to the really good stuff. B+

Agreed. I wonder how they'll handle the voice acting in Ep 22 when you-know-who shows up.....

-GWOtaku

[LightAngel]

WOW!! What on earth happened to Tsukasa?? That entire scene was so eerie, I just hope he's still alive somehow. It was nice seeing Tsukasa and Subaru together, and when he went to show her his secret world, I knew it wasn't going to end well. But..WOW!!! What happened to Aura anyway? Wait, I don't really want to know quite yet. How many more episdoes are left?

[Sir Gatts]

And so the hunt for the Key of the Twilight continues. Only now, Silver Knight and his gang have been persuaded to acquire this Key of the Twilight, seeing it as an tool for themselves to possibly gain administrative-like powers. Yet as the numbers of the remaining Knights may be still great, they should prove to be quite troublesome to those seeking the Key of the Twilight for other goals. Perhaps Sora feels that the Key of the Twilight working with the Crimson Knights hold no threat against him,.. that is unless Sora has made an foolish mistake.

Then there's that voice within Tsukasa's hideaway, who now seems to no longer need Tsukasa. As to what that need was and of what is currently being done to Tsukasa doesn't seem clear at this point. However, it does seem that this Voice now sees Tsukasa as an threat to itself. And thus it appears that this Voice is removing this threat. Yet what did Tsukasa mean by stating that he is not himself?

Overall for this episode: 8/10.

[Romanesque]

I prefered the translation from the fansub:
"I am nothing" over "I am not me"

I remember that the fansub I had said, "I'm not me."

Yet what did Tsukasa mean by stating that he is not himself?

Not sure why this confused so many people, when we've seen Tsukasa "losing his mind" through most of the series. Mimiru was unsettled by this after his most recent death, Subaru discussed it with Bear and Mimiru, and Tsukasa's been vaguely aware of it, too.

--Romey

[serenitymoon]

I think it has been made clear that Tsukasa has been slowly losing bits and pieces of his momories after each death... what I have been pondering is this loss of memories permantent or merely only temporary, only lasting while he is trapped in the game? How much of himself can he lose before he ceases to exist, both in the world and out (and if he even exists outside the game anymore...) And if he does still exist outside the world in body at least, what happens if he looses all of his mental self in the game? A lifelong coma or death? I expect or want no answers on this, I just wanted to get these thoughts down on paper so to speak...

I felt so bad for Tsukasa in the final scene... I thought his goose was cooked literally by mother... but obviously she is not quite through with him yet. Hopefully he can hang on till the others accomplish their goal... how many more eps are left anyway?

A+ (for that ending...)

[Dark]

Was it just me, or after that thing in the sky exploded at the end (where all the important stuff happens, I can easily conclude), it looked like some sort of key-shaped object could be seen in Tsukasa's eyes? If so, could this have been the Key of the Twilight? (I was probably seeing things, but I can't find a screencap of this image, and I'd really like to see that scene again to make sure I wasn't seeing things)

Since no one got back to you and I had a little too much free time today I did some screencaps to make sure. His eyes are shown 3 times in that part: Here (http://www.angelfire.com/film/darknj/tseye1) Here (http://www.angelfire.com/film/darknj/tseye2)
and Here (http://www.angelfire.com/film/darknj/tseye3). Can't say I saw it.

Also, since I was screencapping; here is the real teaser screen shown at the end of this show. It's not really a spoiler, I think since it was intended to be shown at the end of the episode. Preview (http://www.angelfire.com/film/darknj/preview)

[zig973]

Since no one got back to you and I had a little too much free time today I did some screencaps to make sure. His eyes are shown 3 times in that part: Here (http://www.angelfire.com/film/darknj/tseye1) Here (http://www.angelfire.com/film/darknj/tseye2)
and Here (http://www.angelfire.com/film/darknj/tseye3). Can't say I saw it.

Also, since I was screencapping; here is the real teaser screen shown at the end of this show. It's not really a spoiler, I think since it was intended to be shown at the end of the episode. Preview (http://www.angelfire.com/film/darknj/preview)
Must've been seeing things again...

[The Detective]

Yipers things are starting to happen again. Poor Tsukasa, can't get a break anywhere. It was just painful to watch Mumsy getting fried. Wonder what kind of shape he'll be in next episode or if he's going to just lay on the bed on all spaced out the entire rest of the series...

Oh and to those who were wondering I think they're are five episodes left but I'm not absolutely sure.

I see the teams are formed with Bear forming his own little group and Sora forming his own little group. And man I can't help but like that little annoying Sora. He's smart for an annoying player killer.

As usual can't wait for next week. :cool:

[lostrune]

Has anybody else thought, when Tsukasa and Subaru reached for their hands to hold together:

Tsukasa [to Subaru]: "Would you like to see [my secret place]?"

That what he really meant was:

Tsukasa [to Subaru]: "Would you like to go upstairs?" :D

That is all.

[ClockStomper]

There's been a shortage of Mimiru time latley. :( Although I do think I'm figuring out why they decided to pair Subaru with Tsukasa rather than Mimiru.

Spoiler for the first episode, if you missed it (it's a pretty important thing to miss if you did miss episode 1, but just incase: )
If Tsukasa is indeed the one unconcious with the VR helmet off (the goggles or whatever it is that logs people onto the world,) it appears "he" is infact a she (based on the dress he/she was wearing.)

If, as Bear thought, Tsukasa is infact female in real life, I'd think Subaru would be more accepting due to the fact that:
A. She, too, has a big difference between her real self and online self
and
B. Being more mature, I think she'd be more accepting than Mimiru, who'd freak out at first, and later accept Tsukasa after a lot of thinking and maturing.

I like Subaru, but I like Mimiru too. Sucks that Mimiru's been pushed to the side.

[Sir Gatts]

Originally Posted by Romey
Not sure why this confused so many people, when we've seen Tsukasa "losing his mind" through most of the series. Mimiru was unsettled by this after his most recent death, Subaru discussed it with Bear and Mimiru, and Tsukasa's been vaguely aware of it, too.
So then Tsukasa currently retains the memories of the Voice's act of removing the memories. Unless there were some other combination of remaining memories that lead to Tsukasa's statement.

Sorry, I just wasn't myself today. :)

[Mackenzie Rainelle]

Who does Tsukasa's voice? I can't remember.....Gah....those screams....you feel the pain when he screams....

[Romanesque]

So then Tsukasa currently retains the memories of the Voice's act of removing the memories. Unless there were some other combination of remaining memories that lead to Tsukasa's statement.

Not necessarily. It doesn't make any sense for him to know that the Voice is responsible for him losing his mind, does it? You can be aware that you're not remembering things without knowing what or why, even if it's only a vague realization.

--Romey

[Conekiller]

Who does Tsukasa's voice? I can't remember.....Gah....those screams....you feel the pain when he screams....

I was wondering that too, I could swear I heard her voice (yes, her) in Rachet & Clank as the RobotTrainer and the Help Desk Girl.

This ep was alright for me, it was obvious that they're setting up the story for the conclusion, but other than that and the ending it was kind of ...blah.

I liked Krim's lecture to Bear about having to DECIDE to have fun. I have gone into similar rants with friends (gawd, i'm getitng old).

The new music ruled, I was wondering when we';d hear bear's theme (the funky accordion stuff played when he met Subaru in the church) and Open your Heart (opening sequence) but the one playing while Tsukasa and Subaru were deciding to go the secret place was new to me, I don't even think it's on OST#2.

I really don't get BT anymore. Sora, Ok he's a loony, I can live with that, he likes screwing people over. but BT she's so......such a....WOMAN! She's starting to remind me too much of Faye Valentine (not a good thing :mad: ) What's her problem just helping others out. she just has to go and manipulate EVERYONE. At least Ginkan is going down this time, he can be manipulated to her heart's deisre for all I care.

He shouldn't be calling the new faction Crimson Knights. it's kinda.....sacreligious to a degree. Like letting another player play with Babe Ruth's team #.

I wonder where Aura went off too, I wasn't aware that "mother" had control over her too.

Why was Bear suddenly interested in finding the Key again? Was it sometyhing Subaru mentioned to him?

B+

[Seiken Izumi]

Sandy Fox - A-20 (voice)
Kim Mai Guest - Subaru (voice)
Walter Lang - Crim (voice)
Amanda Winn Lee - Mimiru (voice)
Paul Mercier - Bear (voice)
Donna Rawlins - BT (voice)
Roug Rye - Silver Knight
Brianne Siddall - Tsukasa (voice)
Dave Whittenburg - Sora (voice)

[Sir Gatts]

Not necessarily. It doesn't make any sense for him to know that the Voice is responsible for him losing his mind, does it? You can be aware that you're not remembering things without knowing what or why, even if it's only a vague realization.
Something would have to state that there has been an memory loss currently within Tsukasa's memory. Those memories could possibly be of the Voice's acts or of an selection of other memories recalled where the medial* has been left out.

* (Such as an normal ordered memory act is of [1 2 3 4 5], yet Tsukasa currently sees it as [1 2 4 5], but realizes that there had to been an 3 in between the sequence in order for 4 and 5 to take place.)

[Romanesque]

Something would have to state that there has been an memory loss currently within Tsukasa's memory. Those memories could possibly be of the Voice's acts or of an selection of other memories recalled where the medial* has been left out.

Taking things waaay too technically, again, IMO... :sweat:

--Romey

[Sir Gatts]

Taking things waaay too technically, again, IMO... :sweat:

--Romey
Another example for the second part: :sweat:
Someone goes to the store for an item. Yet once there he forgot what he was going to get at the store. But he does know that he is there to get something, or else he wouldn't be at the store.

Something similar to this may possibly be what Tsukasa is experiencing.

[G1Ravage]

Let me ask you all something:

In the real world, how exactly are these people controlling their characters within the game? In the opening sequence we see them all with "visors" on their heads. Does this mean the game is some 3-D virtual world, where they move around on their own accord, not using a keyboard or joystick? In the episode where we saw Subaru in real life, she was looking at her monitor, and she was wearing glasses, but not a visor.

If they must input commands from the keyboard or mouse, then how do they make such....'delicate maneuvers' within the game? I mean...like when Subaru and Tsukasa are sitting together holding hands....is there actually a command that says "sit on rock with closest player and hold his or her hand"? Or another command that says "collapse into player's arms"? :confused:

[Sampo]

Let me ask you all something:

In the real world, how exactly are these people controlling their characters within the game? In the opening sequence we see them all with "visors" on their heads. Does this mean the game is some 3-D virtual world, where they move around on their own accord, not using a keyboard or joystick? In the episode where we saw Subaru in real life, she was looking at her monitor, and she was wearing glasses, but not a visor.


It looks like the visor allows them to visually experience "The World" in greater depth compared to graphics a monitor could display. By moving the player's head, the visor might change what thier character perceives in the game. But as for movement it looks like the good old keyboard and maybe the mouse.

Hmm.. That's a good point about Subaru's real life self wearing glasses. Either she might have A) taken the visor off B) have a specially designed glasses that can be subsituted for the visor. Heh, not sure :)


If they must input commands from the keyboard or mouse, then how do they make such....'delicate maneuvers' within the game? I mean...like when Subaru and Tsukasa are sitting together holding hands....is there actually a command that says "sit on rock with closest player and hold his or her hand"? Or another command that says "collapse into player's arms"? :confused:

They use really cool in-game emotes/character actions ;)

<cough> Seriously, this anime is based on a fictional game called "The World'. They have to give some leeway to make it enjoyable to watch.

If you have the chance, check out the channel "G4". It's a cable channel for the computer,console, and arcade gamers out there. There is a show called "Portal", it uses current On-Line games (such as The Sims, Everquest, Anarchy Online) to create well... episodes for this show. Even though it is very entertaining to watch the innovative ways they can make the characters interact with one and another, it is still very limited. There are so many "emotes" or actions they can do, certain camera angles, and such that animation will easily out do.

[Dark]

Let me ask you all something:

In the real world, how exactly are these people controlling their characters within the game?

It seems like there is a visor for out put and a standard game paddle for input. When the visor is taken off, for instance to look a an email or post to the BBS on the PC screen, the online character freezes up like Mimiru tends to do often. When Subaru cries IRL we never actually see her move or talk, so I think she took her visor off and was frozen. At least thats my overanalyis :D

[skite]

aaarrrggg i hate my timing i always miss important episodes and i cant record because my VCR is broken well ill have to wait for the next run of episodes since ive missed about 8 episodes :(

[Sampo]

It seems like there is a visor for out put and a standard game paddle for input. When the visor is taken off, for instance to look a an email or post to the BBS on the PC screen, the online character freezes up like Mimiru tends to do often. When Subaru cries IRL we never actually see her move or talk, so I think she took her visor off and was frozen. At least thats my overanalyis :D

Aye I noticed that character freeze when Bear said he has email or during that episode where he "ran out of paper" mapping out that area they were in.

Hmm... Maybe the visor can be flipped up since it also covers the ears.

<shurg>

[Morac]

I take the visor to be a more advanced version of what's already available (http://www.i-glassesstore.com/iglassessvga3d.html). Or maybe it is what's already available, just cheap enough that everyone can afford it.

I'm sure "The World" could be played with a normal monitor, but most player probably prefer the visor for obvious reasons.

A player "freezes" when they stop inputting (via mouse, keyboard, joystick, whatever). Removing the visor in itself should not cause a player to freeze, but normally there's a reason a player is removing the visor (going to do something else, or look at something else) and most players would stop using their input devices as well during that time. Think of it as being AFK. For those not into instant messaging or IRC that means "away from keyboard".


In game emotes have gotten more advanced since the first generation MMORPG came out. Second Life (http://secondlife.com/index.php) for example allows the player to express a large range of facial expressions and I've heard some interesting things about There (http://www.there.com). We're still years off from having players able to control individual appendages in ways not pre-programmed into the game. There are full body input suits that can be used to fully control onscreen characters, but they are way to expensive and use too much bandwidth at the moment.

[Michael]

i thought that it was a great epsiode, and left me lingering for more....

[Crimefighter]

If Tsukasa is indeed the one unconcious with the VR helmet off (the goggles or whatever it is that logs people onto the world,) it appears "he" is infact a she (based on the dress he/she was wearing.)


Spoiler tags yanked cause it don't spoil anything, and you got it wrong. Tsukasa is indeed a boy, as shown in later real world flashbacks of him.

[Romanesque]

Another example for the second part: :sweat:
Someone goes to the store for an item. Yet once there he forgot what he was going to get at the store. But he does know that he is there to get something, or else he wouldn't be at the store. Something similar to this may possibly be what Tsukasa is experiencing.

Maybe... I dunno. I just don't think Tsukasa's experience is something that can be quantified into series of specific memory deletions. Things dealing with the mind don't work that way. It seems more like his memory is decaying all around, or slowly eroding, perhaps. The store example might fit within that framework, but it seems too specific to describe the whole situation.

I tend to approach Tsukasa's experience in a more intuitive manner. My mind is fuzzy and incoherent all the time. :sweat:

In the real world, how exactly are these people controlling their characters within the game? In the opening sequence we see them all with "visors" on their heads. Does this mean the game is some 3-D virtual world, where they move around on their own accord, not using a keyboard or joystick? In the episode where we saw Subaru in real life, she was looking at her monitor, and she was wearing glasses, but not a visor.

If they must input commands from the keyboard or mouse, then how do they make such....'delicate maneuvers' within the game? I mean...like when Subaru and Tsukasa are sitting together holding hands....is there actually a command that says "sit on rock with closest player and hold his or her hand"? Or another command that says "collapse into player's arms"? :confused:

It's time for...

Romey's Long Awaited, Over Analysis!

Yes, everyone's wearing visors. Even if it's possible to display "The World" on a normal monitor, no one plays it that way. At least not often.

As to how the game is controlled, that's a matter subject to debate. Primary control seems to be done through a Playstation-like controller, while the mouse and keyboard seem to be optional. However...

The game is recieving more input than from just the standard input devices.

Most traces of this have been obliterated from the dub, but it's there in the original... partly spoken in English, even. In the episode where Tsukasa is captured, he notes that he can smell the cologne Subaru's wearing. It's not clear if she's wearing it in-game or in RL, but he can smell something. In another episode, he tells Mimiru that she should take a bath, not because it's something he'd expect someone to do before going to bed (as worded in the dub), but because he can tell she needs it. Then there's the matter of feeling Subaru's RL heartbeat. There's also the question of how Tsukasa's mind got from inside his head to inside "The World"... If that weren't enough, there's the problem of the normal input devices not being suitable to control the 'delicate maneuvers' we see.

The visor's gotta be taking neural or brainwave input, somehow. It may not even be a published hardware spec. Considering the number of unpublished software specs that are in "The World" & the Altimit OS (the operating system on which the game runs, also written by the CC Corp) and that the visor's been designed for playing "The World" (as suggested by the "SONES Neuro Goggle FMD" in .hack//INFECTION), something must be up...

Oh, and during the episode where we see Subaru in front of her computer, she most likely just took her visor off. The visors are pretty much standard equipment for playing "The World".

A player "freezes" when they stop inputting (via mouse, keyboard, joystick, whatever). Removing the visor in itself should not cause a player to freeze, but normally there's a reason a player is removing the visor (going to do something else, or look at something else) and most players would stop using their input devices as well during that time.

Ahh, but you forget one important detail...

In the episode where Mimiru "freezes", Bear specifically notes that this happens when someone removes their visor. I would also assume that most people stop hitting controller buttons, typing, or moving their mouse quite often while leaving the visor on, but we never see freezes result from that.

Using current technology as an example is not something I like to do with .hack//SIGN, since much of the technology is different, but I use this next case because there could be an implementation parallel. In many online games (particularly FPS games), players will "freeze" if their connection to the server is disrupted. If the visor is taking any neural or brainwave input, removing the visor would disconnect the mental input from the server, thus causing the character to freeze.

In game emotes have gotten more advanced since the first generation MMORPG came out. Second Life (http://secondlife.com/index.php) for example allows the player to express a large range of facial expressions and I've heard some interesting things about There (http://secondlife.com/index.php).

In game emotes don't suffice for what we've seen. Not even advanced in game emotes would work...

However, if anyone's not willing to accept the neural / brainwave input theory, here's another. On some of the player's monitors appear to be built-in webcam things. It's possible that the camera could be doing motion-tracking to pick up player movement.

The neural / brainwave theory explains more, though. :p

--Romey

[raykremer]

Spoiler tags yanked cause it don't spoil anything, and you got it wrong. Tsukasa is indeed a boy, as shown in later real world flashbacks of him.
As far as I can tell, Tsukasa's RL gender is still ambiguous. Though I'm sure Romey knows one way or the other.

[Romanesque]

As far as I can tell, Tsukasa's RL gender is still ambiguous. Though I'm sure Romey knows one way or the other.

Yeah, given the information we currently have, he could be either. Since the evidence conflicts, a person could form an argument that goes either way, but things are ultimately inconclusive right now. However, there's no doubt that as far his presence in the "The World" goes, he's entirely male.

--Romey

[Sampo]

As far as I can tell, Tsukasa's RL gender is still ambiguous...

There was a previous episode in which Tsukasa talks about the special place he goes to and about Aura to the group. I think Mimiru and Bear were present. Bear asked him if the sleeping girl was a representation of Tsukasa in the real world. Tsukasa replied something like "But I'm a guy".

[Dr Kain]

OK, this is getting annoying, these eps go by too fast. I think CN needs to show 2 eps every week, plus they need to air the last 6 quickly because I would love to see them before I get .hack//OUTBREAK next month since I heard that one of the things in the game has a huge spoiler/reference to SIGN. Not to mention I have to think of what happened in the previous episode since I haven't seen it in a week, and there is no previously thing.

[Conekiller]

Bear asked him if the sleeping girl was a representation of Tsukasa in the real world. Tsukasa replied something like "But I'm a guy".

He could have been lying. But it is doubful, he sounded quite offended by the question.

Just got around to playing .hack//INFECTION , gawd Mistral is annoying!

[oranthal]

In the episode where Tsukasa is captured, he notes that he can smell the cologne Subaru's wearing. It's not clear if she's wearing it in-game or in RL, but he can smell something. --Romey


Subaru wears cologne? I would think she wears perfume instead.

[Seiken Izumi]

OK, this is getting annoying, these eps go by too fast. I think CN needs to show 2 eps every week, plus they need to air the last 6 quickly because I would love to see them before I get .hack//OUTBREAK next month since I heard that one of the things in the game has a huge spoiler/reference to SIGN. Not to mention I have to think of what happened in the previous episode since I haven't seen it in a week, and there is no previously thing.

One ep a week, though annoying, I think is good for .hack//SIGN, although I really can't wait until Saturday.

[Dr Kain]

SPOILERS SPOILERS

SPOILERS

Spoilers Removed

END SPOILERS

END SPOILERS

That is all I know because that is all I read about on another forum long ago when there was a dispute about Tsukasa and Elk (games) were the same person.

[Romanesque]

SPOILERS SPOILERS

That is all I know because that is all I read about on another forum long ago when there was a dispute about Tsukasa and Elk (games) were the same person.

Dr Kain... please learn how to use the spoiler tag. :rolleyes:

And I'm going to request that people not to post spoilers about episodes that haven't aired, especially spoilers for the end of the series, in any form whatsoever, with or without spoiler tags. If people want to read spoilers, they can find them elsewhere, though I strongly suggest that people avoid them at all costs.

--Romey

[ClockStomper]

Spoiler tags yanked cause it don't spoil anything, and you got it wrong. Tsukasa is indeed a boy, as shown in later real world flashbacks

I disagree. First of all, I doubt he remembers who he was before, the flashbacks we see probably aren't conciously remembered by Tsukasa, as some are impossible to be memories (like the one where we see him unconcious.) I believe it's third person, just like all the glimpses into the real world for other characters are. I do believe all the flashbacks are factual as presented, being presented in the third person and therefore impartial. (Meaning Subaru really is crippled, BT is a brunette, Tsukassa did take care of an inured kitten as a child, ect.)

In all flashbacks but the first one with the dress, Tsukassa's wearing gender nuetral clothing and shows no specific male or female physical characteristics.

And even if you don't deem it tag worthy since it's my conjecture, I don't know what lies ahead for the series so I'm not gonna risk accidental spoilage. We may never get a concrete answer on this matter, but incase we do, I don't want to taint people so the blow is lessened by my speculation.

Tsukasa in real life possible spoiler:
I think you may be on to something. I always thought that was Tsukasa wearing the dress. Bear has asked twice IIRC if he is a girl and seems to know where Tsukasa is at the hospital. It would make sense since Tsukasa keeps losing his memory maybe he doesn't remember he is a girl. This also fits with something else I may have figured out.
hmmm

You can got to the official site, go to home entertainment, then hit multimedia, and choose to view the "movie" (actually a TV series) trailer. You can pause the final scene and confirm what (that character) was wearing.

The specific scene is the one from the first episode, I don't know if Romey consider it spoilerific or not.

[Romanesque]

You can got to the official site, go to home entertainment, then hit multimedia, and choose to view the "movie" (actually a TV series) trailer. You can pause the final scene and confirm what (that character) was wearing.

The specific scene is the one from the first episode, I don't know if Romey consider it spoilerific or not.

At this point, I fully encourage discussion of past episodes. Speaketh thine mind! However, realize that which ever way your opinion on matters leans, there are counterpoints to consider.

For one thing, Tsukasa's flashbacks...
(Which I have every reason to believe are accurate as depicted).

--Romey

[raykremer]

Bear asked him if the sleeping girl was a representation of Tsukasa in the real world. Tsukasa replied something like "But I'm a guy".
As far as he knows, he is a guy. But "as far as he knows" doesn't go very far. He remembers, what, 45 seconds worth of clips from his life outside the World?

[Sampo]

As far as he knows, he is a guy. But "as far as he knows" doesn't go very far. He remembers, what, 45 seconds worth of clips from his life outside the World?

Aye, good point. Also with this recent death I wonder how much Tsukasa will retain this time around...

Still it was kinda odd for Tsukasa to get a little upset/annoyed (his voice seemed to indicate this) when Bear asked him if that sleeping girl was him in RL.

Oh well, 2 more days till the next fix.

[Dr Kain]

Dr Kain... please learn how to use the spoiler tag. :rolleyes:

And I'm going to request that people not to post spoilers about episodes that haven't aired, especially spoilers for the end of the series, in any form whatsoever, with or without spoiler tags. If people want to read spoilers, they can find them elsewhere, though I strongly suggest that people avoid them at all costs.

--Romey

Well I was trying to find how to do spoiler tags for 10 mins, but I couldn't find anything. All I see at the top is

Color, Font, Size Close CUrrent Tag
BIU, Left, Center, Right, Indent, Bullets, Image, Link, Quote, Code, PHP
Normal Mode Enhanced Mode

I don't have anything at the top that says Spoilers

[Cyporiean]

its <Spoiler> Vader is Luke's Dad </spoiler>

Replacing the < > with [ ]

[Romanesque]

Just got around to playing .hack//INFECTION , gawd Mistral is annoying!

I've heard a lot of people say that... Just what is it that's so annoying about her? She's not exactly my favorite character from the game, but I'm wondering why she seems to get on other people's nerves...

Subaru wears cologne? I would think she wears perfume instead.

Cologne, perfume, same thing. ;-)
It's the particular fragrance that counts.
This leads to the question, what fragrance *does* she wear?

Aye, good point. Also with this recent death I wonder how much Tsukasa will retain this time around...

But this time, he wasn't actually killed.
Then again, there are things worse than death...

Well I was trying to find how to do spoiler tags for 10 mins, but I couldn't find anything. All I see at the top is

Color, Font, Size Close CUrrent Tag
BIU, Left, Center, Right, Indent, Bullets, Image, Link, Quote, Code, PHP
Normal Mode Enhanced Mode

I don't have anything at the top that says Spoilers

At the moment, we can't include a button for the spoiler tag, but it's in the FAQ / Forum Rules under "General Rules of Conduct".

its <Spoiler> Vader is Luke's Dad </spoiler>

::gasp:: I'd never have guessed! Now you've ruined the ending. :p :D

--Romey

[Mackenzie Rainelle]

Cologne, perfume, same thing. ;-)
It's the particular fragrance that counts.
This leads to the question, what fragrance *does* she wear?


Calvin Klein's "Obsession" :D

[Dr Kain]

well let's see if this works.

Tsukasa's player . . . , it is that obvious, plus NewType kinda gave it away in the 2nd issue

[Romanesque]

well let's see if this works.

Tsukasa's player . . . , it is that obvious, plus NewType kinda gave it away in the 2nd issue

I can only conclude that the people who wrote the give-away were idiots, then.
Good, the spoiler box works... now take your spoilers elsewhere, thank you.

--Romey

[Conekiller]

I've heard a lot of people say that... Just what is it that's so annoying about her? She's not exactly my favorite character from the game, but I'm wondering why she seems to get on other people's nerves...

--Romey

Since I play the game in English, her voice is terrible, it sounds like Rini from Sailor Moon, only slightly less whiny. Then she goes around begging for every friggin item you get (I give her the crap just to shut her up) if it weren't for the fact that I need a Wavemaster in my team and she seems to be more proactive in healing than Elk (who I constantly have to remind him that Kite and Mia are dead) I'd much prefer to have my team as Kite, Blackrose and Elk, but the way things are shaping up, he's gonna need lots of exp before he can compete with Kite and BRose. I wanna get Natusme, she looks fun, and looks like A-20.

I've been thinking about the user interface and over-all "look" of the The World to the characters we see. I have come to the conclusion (based on observations of the show, game and Romey's assesments, and my own opinions) that the game looks to the actual players like the Cut scenes in the game. The character models are much more detailed than in-game graphics, and account for mouth movement and facial expressions. It's not quite CG quility but pretty damn close. I'm sure by the time .hack takes place (2015? right?) technology would have advanced to the point where the Altimit OS could handle rendering those kind of multi-variational permuted characters interacting in an online environment with ease. I also firmly beleive that the visor relays mental projections to have the characters moving in more intricate ways, such as , say, lying your head in someone's lap or feeling a "heartbeat". I just wonder if any of the palyers are aware of this or are they so engrossed with the game that they don't realise how casually their avatars are interacting?

I'm conviced that neither the show nor the game give us the "real" feel of the The World. It's a happy medium between the 2. Obviously the game won't look like crisp anime, it just ain't gonna happen (love to be proved wrong....) and the PS2 game is limited, Hell, If Sora can jump around like a fool, So should I! That and the painfully obvious difference between the Cut-scene character models and the in-game models.


Will watching .hack//DUSk at this point ruin anyhting of SIGN for me?

[Romanesque]

Since I play the game in English, her voice is terrible . . . I wanna get Natusme, she looks fun, and looks like A-20.

Ahh, ok. I avoided the game's dub entirely, so I wouldn't know just how bad some of the voices are. And yes, Natsume's an interesting character. :D

I've been thinking about the user interface and over-all "look" of the The World to the characters we see . . . I'm conviced that neither the show nor the game give us the "real" feel of the The World. It's a happy medium between the 2.

Yay, a believer! :D

Incidentally, SIGN takes place around 2010, so I guess an assessment of the graphics looking somewhat like INFECTION's cut scenes -- but with much more polish -- would be pretty close. Of course, the PS2 isn't exactly a great example of modern graphics technology, but that's another topic entirely...

I wouldn't mind jumping around like Sora in the game, either. Whee!

Will watching .hack//DUSk at this point ruin anyhting of SIGN for me?

Not really. At least not aside from leading you to wonder strange things about what could have happened in SIGN... rather disturbing things, involving jiggle physics and just how anatomically correct the player characters might be. But it won't spoil the plot, if that's what you're worried about.

One thing to note, apparently the ending to the DUSK anime differs greatly from the manga. In fact, the entire second half of of the anime may have no basis in the original story whatsoever... but I guess I won't know for sure until the manga's published over here.

--Romey

[Jude Santos]

well, i havent been active in .hack//SIGN discussions lately...all i have to say is keep watching, the show eventually answers your questions

also, theres something i want to say, ive been waiting 5 months to say it...but not yet...

[Conekiller]

somehow "jiggle physics" and Subaru and Mimiru don't mix :D

Do you know what the kanji on Kite's legs say?

also, is it KAIT or KEE-tay?

[Dr Kain]

I can only conclude that the people who wrote the give-away were idiots, then.
Good, the spoiler box works... now take your spoilers elsewhere, thank you.

--Romey
You are so mean :(

What is the point of the spoiler box, if you can't put spoilers in it?

[TsuiTsui]

I thought the discussion about the .hack game equipment in the previous posts was quite interesting. It cleared up some of my own questions regarding that topic! :)

-------------------------
Just got around to playing .hack//INFECTION , gawd Mistral is annoying! ... Since I play the game in English, her voice is terrible . . .

I've heard a lot of people say that... Just what is it that's so annoying about her? She's not exactly my favorite character from the game, but I'm wondering why she seems to get on other people's nerves...

I also think Mistral's English voice is annoying. Her voice seemed abit too "comical" and her sqeaky laugh is unbearable. Heehee, because of the voice, I had to rely on Elk as my Wavemaster.

:anime:

--------------------------
This leads to the question, what fragrance *does* she wear?


Calvin Klein's "Obsession" :D

LOL. Clever! :D

---------------------------

One thing to note, apparently the ending to the DUSK anime differs greatly from the manga. In fact, the entire second half of of the anime may have no basis in the original story whatsoever... but I guess I won't know for sure until the manga's published over here.

This I did not know. Now I will need to follow both stories once they are released in the United States!

[Romanesque]

You are so mean :(

What is the point of the spoiler box, if you can't put spoilers in it?

In the context of the .hack talkbacks, I guess the spoiler boxes are just for discussing those things which haven't happened yet that are either too vague / cryptic for anyone else to understand (and don't ruin the way everything ends) or for discussing predictions which may or may not be correct.

The simple fact is, people read spoiler boxes.

Now, you might say it's their own business whether or not these people read spoiler boxes, and in most cases, I would agree. However, these same people aren't necessarily the type who want to read them. While they would never intentionally look for spoilers, having a spoiler box in the middle of the thread is just too tempting.

Finally, many spoilers contain incomplete or incorrect information. Even correct information can be extremely misleading if someone isn't aware of other prerequisite information (obtained by actually watching the show as it's meant to be seen). Since I'm the one who's going to have to end up explaining everything in that event, I'd like to be spared such a headache.

Note my sig.

I've spent long enough fending off spoilers to have everything come crashing down on me, now. -_-

--Romey

[Romanesque]

Do you know what the kanji on Kite's legs say?

Nope, I didn't even notice it was kanji, actually... =x

also, is it KAIT or KEE-tay?

Kite's pronounced 'kite' as in "go fly a kite", so that's KAIT. Interesting fact, it's spelled "Kight" in japan... odd.

--Romey

[Conekiller]

Nope, I didn't even notice it was kanji, actually... =x

I didn't either at first, but I noticed that Kanji appeared on his legs, THEN he changed from green to orange.

I forgot what the extra things comming with the SIGN DVD's 4-6 will be

wasn't 6 going to have the BoxSet for the Games and one would have the OST with Aura on the cover?

BTW in the game is there any way to avoid being confuzed/paralyzed/asleep on at least one character ahead of time. I've been in dungeons where a few monsters incapacitate my whole team and just whail on me till their all dead, standing there defenseless. It's quite irritating not even being able to open the menu to use the cure items.

[Dr Kain]

I didn't either at first, but I noticed that Kanji appeared on his legs, THEN he changed from green to orange.

I forgot what the extra things comming with the SIGN DVD's 4-6 will be

wasn't 6 going to have the BoxSet for the Games and one would have the OST with Aura on the cover?

BTW in the game is there any way to avoid being confuzed/paralyzed/asleep on at least one character ahead of time. I've been in dungeons where a few monsters incapacitate my whole team and just whail on me till their all dead, standing there defenseless. It's quite irritating not even being able to open the menu to use the cure items.

LE4 is suppose to come with another OST for anything not on the previous ones. LE5 is unknown, and LE6 is an art box for the OST. I guess Bandai is releasing .hack pt4 with an art box for the games.

Oh, and Romey, I understand your point now. I'll try to avoid anymore spoilers for .hack.