CN's ratings are dropping

[Mike]

Here's an article by J. Max Robins from this week's TV Guide. There's nothing in here about trying to beef up ratings by scheduling more classic cartoon airings but......well, we can dream, can't we? :D

TOONING OUT
Zoinks! Suddenly Cartoon Network Is Losing Eyeballs



After nine years of rollicking success, Cartoon Network is starting to lose ground. For the first month of 2003, Cartoon Network's target 6- to 11-year-old audience dropped by 170,000 viewers. At the same time, two of its chief competitors, Nickelodeon and Disney Channel, have gained.

What's to blame for the slip? Internally, some are grousing that parent AOL Time Warner has taken Cartoon Network for granted. "Program and promotion budgets were cut," says a Cartoon Network insider. "Just when Nick and Disney were spending like crazy, we weren't given the resources we need to stay competitive."

While Cartoon Network still has once red-hot Dexter's Laboratory and The Powerpuff Girls, no new shows have reached such heights. In addition, there were few new episodes of much-in-demand established shows.

"We couldn't believe it over here," says an insider at Nickelodeon. Cartoon Network "looked so strong, and then it seemed like they thought they could exist on cruise control."

Cartoon Network's only bright spot has been its Adult Swim block of late-night animation. In January, Adult Swim was up about 100,000 viewers over the same period last year with its target 18- to 34-year-old audience.

Cartoon Network general manager Jim Samples is candid about his dissatisfaction with the channel's ratings picture. But he says the network is poised for a turnaround.

Samples points to ratings for Codename: Kids Next Door, which launched in December and is climbing steadily. In addition, three new animated series are in the pipeline: retro Looney Tune Duck Dodgers, superhero saga Teen Titans and robot fantasy Low Brow. "Our rise was so meteoric that some slowdown was probably inevitable," Samples says. "We've stepped up our spending. We've got the resources we need now to stay competitive."

[J Lee]

What that bascially shows is that the "Cartoon Cartoons" -- like most of the made-for-TV animation over the past 45 years -- has a limited shelf life in terms of attracting viewers. They'll watch the shows when they're new the first time, and may even watch it in reruns a couple of times after that, but as of now none of the shows are guarenteed "franchise" players, the way the Flintstones and (sadly) Scooby Doo were for Hanna-Barbera.

CN has ordered more episodes of Dexter and the Powerpuff Girls, their strongest two "C-C" performers, which will probably give them a ratings bump when they arrive. But the lack of staying power for most of those shows means that CN isn't likely to shuffle Bugs, Daffy, Tom & Jerry or Popeye off completely to Boomerang any time soon, since those cartoons have show a muc greater ability to attrack viewers after the 100th or 200th showing.

[Killtacular]

Again, as I've said before, this article is nothing but yellow journalism, trying to make a big deal out of absolutely nothing.

CN lost 179,000 viewers. Okay. You know how many people watch Cartoon Network? 50 million people. AT LEAST. There's 80 million subscribers total.

This TV Guide article was obviously written by someone who got a nice fat check placed in his palm by Herb Scannel or Michael Eisner.

As for Cartoon Cartoons, it's the reruns that annoy people. Usually if you've seen a cartoon two or three times, any time after that becomes a chore. This is how I feel about Looney Tunes as well.

But that's just the curse of any cable network. You can't provide new material every single week of the year, it's just not possible. Luckily, CN has a really nice plan to spread out every show in 2003, so hopefully it'll keep viewers tuned in.

[rodney]

I'm reminded of something that George Burns said in the early 40's in regards to his radio show at the time. Their ratings were gradually going down, and he said something to the effect of: "When the ratings drop really fast, you can usually turn it around, but when it's a gradual drop, you know that it's not that you're doing anything wrong, people are just tired of what your doing."

[Killtacular]

Well, January's ratings actually rose, regardless of what that TV Guide article says. The lowest rated month was December, and in that case, you'd be right. People ARE getting tired of the same boring Christmas specials. Thankfully, next year, there's going to be a Powerpuff Girls holiday special, which should prove to be actually entertaining compared to this year's new offers ("Grandma Got Run Over By a Reindeer" definitely would not be considered entertaining by any stretch of the imagination).

[Grant W.]

I read that in order to beef up ratings, CN is doing away with all of the Cartoon Cartoons, Baby Looney Tunes, and anime and replace them with "uncut" WB including previously banned cartoons because people have finally realized that they were being silly about this issue. They are considering a 4 hour block each weekday of WB complete with original black n white prints and original title cards. Also, sources say that they are picking up Totally Tooned In and acquiring rights to the whole Terrytoons catalog, Beany N Cecil, Bosko, Harvey toons, and other very obscure gems such as Q.T. Hush, Colonel Bleep, Do Do The Kid From Outer Space, Space Patrol, Mel-O-Toons and others. In addition, old cartoon commercials are going to start running with the shows such as "Quisp" and many others.


They are also getting rid of any logos that run during cartoons becuase the are cognizant of the fact that a big ugly logo obscures the shows and takes away the charms of programming. Finally, executives at CN argued that most cartoons from today lack soul and charms of cartoons of yesteryear and that quality in programming was their main concern, instead of other networks that are only concerned with revenue and money issues.

Wouldn't that be neat? :harley:

[Killtacular]

Haha.

That's a great way for them to go bankrupt, lose all their sponsors, and disappear from the market. Good one.

[rodney]

Honestly speaking, the anime and the Cartoon Cartoons are generally popular with the general public. Some additional classic cartoon programming would boost ratings in certain time slots. I don't know that it's the solution to the problem, or if there is even a problem. It would help though.

[Pietro]

I think CN needs to get rid of some of the crud (with all do respect of Cartoon Cartoon fans who occasionally stop by, I will not mention any of them except "Mike, Lu, and Og" which is by far one of the worst animated television programs, IMO).

I really think CN should kill off Baby Looney Tunes, Hamtaro (does anybody really watch this?), Pokemon (why the heck did CN start airin' this?), Scooby-Doo (Everybody is complaining about that mutt), and Mike Lu and Og, and replace with GOOD stuff like Bugs and Daffy (in the afternoon or at 9 pm), Animaniacs, Tiny Toons, Freakazoid, Pinky and the Brain, and maybe even stuff like DePatie-Freleng, Lantz, or Columbia which CN can easily pick up.

-Pietro:D

[Matthew Hunter]

I don't think the problem is the material, really. I've said it before and will say it again...it's the schedule. They totally rearranged everything earlier this fall, after a summer schedule that seemed to make everyone happy. They then got Baby Looney Tunes and put that crap alongside "Flintstones Kids" and an "Acme Hour" that, I'm sorry to those who love it, sucks. It has been better. Then they overplay Tom and Jerry while completely dropping Bugs and Daffy, which was better than it was in years. Their prime time schedule is all Cartoon Cartoon reruns, and they often have the "new" Dexter and "New" Johnny Bravo, which are pretty substandard compared to the original batch. They're cranking out new Cartoon Cartoon shows that suck and ending those with charm.

In my opinion, they shouldn't necessarily change the content, just rearrange it and pick off some of the junk to make room for Bugs and Daffy, good new shows, and whatever else they may want to do. I seem to remember reading that new Dragon Ball Z episodes are starting again, and Powerpuff Girls too. Maybe those shows will help.

-Matthew

[Thad Komorowski]

I agree with you on Baby Looney Tunes, and the Sylvester & Tweety Mysteries for that matter. Both of those shows SUCK, and CN is considering them "2 hours of Looney fun"... :rolleyes:

Freakazoid (I'm not going to say how much I hate this show) is on at 5am. The other three Speilberg shows you mentioned are currently in the hands of Nickelodeon.

Face it, despite all of our complaining, CN is never going to cancel Scooby Doo. They could tone down the airings of him a bit, but that's all they'd do. Besides, if it wasn't for the 4am Scooby Movie, how would I get all of those nice looking Toon Extras? ;)

Cartoon Network's biggest section of their library is classic cartoons, and they're totally being ignorant of that. Honestly, WB should take away CN's rights to being the only channel to play the cartoons, and put out syndicated packages of them. Every local network in the country will want to pick up "Bugs Bunny & Friends" or "Tom & Jerry and Company"!!!

Oh yeah, and Pietro, I honestly think HAMTARO is the best 'new' cartoon to come on CN in 2002 (that's not saying much). And this is coming from a HUGE hater of anime. It's the only anime you can tune into that doesn't have people screaming at each other, demons fighting, or half-dressed chicks with guns...

[Pilmedium]

Even if the changes are insignificant, Cartoon Network did have a worse monthly loss/gain than its competitors.

Originally posted by Thad K
I agree with you on Baby Looney Tunes, and the Sylvester & Tweety Mysteries for that matter. Both of those shows SUCK, and CN is considering them "2 hours of Looney fun"...

Cartoon Network's advertisement claims their "Baby Looney Tunes" showings, which they sometimes spell as "Baby Looney Toons," to be "an hour of your favorite Looney Tunes characters." If they want to truthfully say that, they should bring back "Bugs and Daffy" instead.

[The Silver Fox]

I read this about this ratings drop in my local Newpaper, using exerps from the TV guide (our newpapers TV listings) and they were saying the same thing but didnt' blame it on the holiday shows, but on the poor
scedualing of shows and masive overplays.

sorry Cartoon Cartoon fans but i must, for give me but these are my own opion here on shows to be dropped to help ratings.

the shows that should go first are all Discontinued Cartoon C. shows still overplaying today (Cow and chicken (this show imo stunk since it premired), Mike lu and og, baby loney tunes (stories and sound are really bad and yes i know it still new but there are stories saying CN may discontinue soon), Cartoon cartoon show that had all the piolets for the current line up of CC shows (first epse of Dextor, Mike, Cow and chicken, Grim and evel, etc)).

REmove all the overplayed Theatrical HB/columbia shows(boomerang preview), ( yogi, huck, ) as these have seeen so much overplay on CN line up its unreal and it stinks.

replace late nite b/w to a full hour, new epsodes of toon heads, put all the directors shows on (bob clampet, tex avery, chuck johns, frez freeling (there was a show in the works for him but unknow if it going to make it.)

replace bugs and daffy, acme hour, and new popeye shows that show full toons (this was great, i seen parts in popeye cartoons that i never knew about),

Star blazers (come on its been off the air for 20 yrs its time for a comback), to toonami, even put pokemon there (i know i know i hear for that).

even return robot jones, (that was a good show and had that classic old school toon look)


CN Eveything old is new again and you to disney give us back some of the good shows you did and you drop Lyd in space that shows stinks and the zoog late nite.

thank youa gain

[Mike]

Originally posted by Matt Wilson
CN lost 179,000 viewers. Okay. You know how many people watch Cartoon Network? 50 million people. AT LEAST. There's 80 million subscribers total.

Yeah, but it's not 179,000 viewers. It's 179,000 6-11 year olds. That's a big difference. The 50 (or 80) million subscriber total doesn't take into account age.


This TV Guide article was obviously written by someone who got a nice fat check placed in his palm by Herb Scannel or Michael Eisner.

Okay, I highly doubt that. Robins is a serious journalist, and his "Robins Report" articles are always very professional. Moreover, TV Guide is published by News Corp., which is owned by Rupert Murdoch (the guy who owns Fox). I doubt Murdoch would let his employees take payoffs from Disney.


As for Cartoon Cartoons, it's the reruns that annoy people. Usually if you've seen a cartoon two or three times, any time after that becomes a chore. This is how I feel about Looney Tunes as well..

Generations of cartoon fans feel otherwise. Why else would Bugs Bunny & Tweety--full of cartoons everyone had seen before more, much more than two or three times--still be near the top of the Saturday Morning ratings when Time Warner pulled it in 2000? Why were Flintstones, Jetsons, Scooby, and other Hanna-Barbera chestnuts in syndicated reruns for years, and always big hits? (The case of The Jetsons is interesting, because up until 1985, there were only 26 episodes of The Jetsons that had been produced. Yet those 26 had been in constant reruns for over 20 years!) Surely there are lots of people who don't feel a cartoon is a chore if they've seen it more than two or three times. I'm one of them, and I'd venture to guess so are most of the TTTP-ers.

No, I think the problem might lie in what J Lee said. Some cartoons hold up well in constant repeats, others don't. Think of all the cartoons seen on Saturday mornings in the '60s, '70s, and '80s. Some of them became big rerun hits, other ones just died out. Maybe it's just time for CN to start to weed out the shows that don't rerun well.

Mike

[J Lee]

Even in the pre-CN, pre-Turner days of its history, Hanna-Barbera recognized that even shows that did draw decent ratings in reruns, like "The Jetsons" and "Yogi Bear" could only go to the well so often on reruning the same episodes, and as a result created new ones for both in the 1980s (the new episodes were unfunny talkfests that completely lost the appeal of the original episodes, but that's another story).

The same thing is in place right now with the "Cartoons Cartoons" -- given enough episodes, maybe Dexter or maybe The Powerpuff Girls will become the kind of shows that can run in perpeturity, the way Fred, Barney, Scoob and Shaggy have (Dexter's already getting close to Year 8 of its run, which isn't bad -- the Scooby series was already into the Scrappy Doo era by the time it was eight years down the line). But as or right now, none of the other series have shown any more staying power than the stuff H-B and other studios churned out between 1966 and 1990.

The same thing holds true for the made-for-TV stuff appearing on Disney and Nickelodeon -- as of now "Rugrats" has lasted a pretty long time, and "Doug" was even swiped by Disney from Viacom, but we'll see if those (or "Spongebob") have the staying power to last another 10-15 years. They might, but most of the Toon Disney or Nicktoons stuff won't, because the rewatchability level isn't high enough.

As foir the future of "Cartoon Cartoons," if I were Matt I wouldn't get paranoid that CN is going to kill them off and go back to their prime-time 1993 line-up. The original cartoons will still be around and they'll still be making new ones. But what this ratings dip may have shown is "Time Squad" or "Ed, Edd and Eddy" are as perishable as "Wheelie and the Chopper Bunch" or "Funky Phantom" were once the new episodes end and the shows go into playing the same episodes over and over again.

[Steve Carras]

Some words of advice to Cartoon Network"
DROP ALL THOSE CARTOON CARTOON SHOWS AND SUCH THAT YOU HAVE FOISTED ON US SINCE THE 1990s ONWARD, INCL>TE CURRENT JUNK, AND SHOW 1960s-70s SHOWS (SCOOBY DOO included, but not as much.)

(Caps intended for EMPHASIS! :D )


They should take off BOOMERANG the channell and just make CN that.Cause in part that is what CN USED to be pre-Boomerang. :D

Some suggestions
1950s-60s Hanna-Barbera FIVE HOURS a day like on Boomerang
Linus the Lion-heeartrd,1964-69
The OLD Alvin Show, not the Ruby-Spears or successors one,
1961-1965
Sinbad Jr.1965 (BOTH Sam Singer & Hanna-Barbera)
Hanna-Barbera's Laurel and Hardy (1966) and Abbott and Costello (1967)
Rocky and Bullwinkle and anything else Jay Ward
Underdog and all other Total TV shows
Anything independent that aired in 1960s (Col.Bleep, Clutch Cargo)
King Features Syndicate toons
UPA TV cartoons

However
you can have Cartoon Planet, Brak and Space Ghost Coast to Coast, those three interrlated shows.Hilarious!

Because with few exceptions the made-for-TV cartoons that they
show are almost always 1980s or later, and stuff like Gundam (I can think of a SIMILIAR word, one uttered by 1980s Eddie Murphy when he played Gumby, to describe GUNDAM),Cowboye BEBOP?? As a Charlie Parker hater and Dave Brubeck AND Gene Autry fan I RESENT Cowboy BEBOP
's very name (Cowoy COOLJAZZ,maynoe??)

Why not just dumpCODENAME and these other shows created within the last 25 years and just out oin what Boomerang has, esp.since CN started out that way (and Boomerang IS a CN spinoff network anyhow.) Besides I don't control the finances in my houseeholds and too many oif usa do not even HAVE Boomerang, but when I go to Vegas I'll be able to find it as I did last year (i am going next month.)

Heck, 90 percent of the last 5 years worth of Cartoon network originals I haven';t even HEARD of!

A devoted Baby Boomer, Steve C.

(who thanks GOD for Gilligan and Fred Sanford and the BRadys on Nick at Nite..I onmly wish Ren and Stimpy would return to NciK)

[Steve Carras]

Originally posted by J Lee
Even in the pre-CN, pre-Turner days of its history, Hanna-Barbera recognized that even shows that did draw decent ratings in reruns, like "The Jetsons" and "Yogi Bear" could only go to the well so often on reruning the same episodes, and as a result created new ones for both in the 1980s (the new episodes were unfunny talkfests that completely lost the appeal of the original episodes, but that's another story).

The same thing is in place right now with the "Cartoons Cartoons" -- given enough episodes, maybe Dexter or maybe The Powerpuff Girls will become the kind of shows that can run in perpeturity, the way Fred, Barney, Scoob and Shaggy have (Dexter's already getting close to Year 8 of its run, which isn't bad -- the Scooby series was already into the Scrappy Doo era by the time it was eight years down the line). But as or right now, none of the other series have shown any more staying power than the stuff H-B and other studios churned out between 1966 and 1990.

The same thing holds true for the made-for-TV stuff appearing on Disney and Nickelodeon -- as of now "Rugrats" has lasted a pretty long time, and "Doug" was even swiped by Disney from Viacom, but we'll see if those (or "Spongebob") have the staying power to last another 10-15 years. They might, but most of the Toon Disney or Nicktoons stuff won't, because the rewatchability level isn't high enough.

As foir the future of "Cartoon Cartoons," if I were Matt I wouldn't get paranoid that CN is going to kill them off and go back to their prime-time 1993 line-up. The original cartoons will still be around and they'll still be making new ones. But what this ratings dip may have shown is "Time Squad" or "Ed, Edd and Eddy" are as perishable as "Wheelie and the Chopper Bunch" or "Funky Phantom" were once the new episodes end and the shows go into playing the same episodes over and over again.

Hear Hear! Although for ME I would change "1990" to "1980", but that's just me.By the way I'll let Hanna-Barbera Australian-animated and prodcued DRAK PACK, from 1980, with Hans Conreid as the villian, on CN's schedule.SMURFS? Gag me with an ANIMANIAC! (Nick Jr.can HAVE that show!!)

I'll go with the older shows.FLINSTONES had other SIX YEARS worth of episodes, but in a time when they had all the great voice actors, storymen, (Mike Maltese, Tony Benedict, Warren Foster), and Hanna and Barbera produced and directed, and they knew when to stop (though like with GILLIGAN it may have been a network decision to end the show, but both shows have enough episodes--the HONEYMONERS CLASSSIC 39/JETSONS endless rerun theory of not getting one's fill, which I guess contradicts J.Lee's point in his open paragraph).

[The Silver Fox]

some toon of the 80's into 90's have great fan groups,
Disney's Gummi Bears, Disney's Tail Spin, Rescue rangers, duck tails, and Darkwing, mighty ducks all have great fan groups out there,
fan fictions and art.

all of these shows ended in the mid 90's, but still have great staying power.

as do the Flintstones (61-76) pre 80's flintstones (the late 80's shows stunk, epsically Kids version that was an embarrasment to the orginal)

Scooby was good up thru 85, but after that it was slowly going down the drain, it low point, was A Pup named scooby doo, which imo be permently retired.

Jestons orginal 25 were the best, the 85-7 epsodes were teriable, stories didn't go with the orginals, or follow, sound was terrable, the over 80's the show so bad its now completely dated. as the 60's version still has the endruing power today some almost 40 yrs later
Lets hope that WB will release the orginal 25 restored to the 60's glory on DVD. ( Please don't reissue the 85 set, its opening had way too much base and were heavly cut for ads).


as for newer wb toons, animaniacs, and tT were the only ones that are good, the worst was Frekaziod (that was a mistake, its really dated now).

[Greg Method]

Originally posted by Thad K
Cartoon Network's biggest section of their library is classic cartoons, and they're totally being ignorant of that. Honestly, WB should take away CN's rights to being the only channel to play the cartoons, and put out syndicated packages of them. Every local network in the country will want to pick up "Bugs Bunny & Friends" or "Tom & Jerry and Company"!!!

Syndication? Heck, Nickelodeon would probably take the Looney Tunes back in a heartbeat. That would put the fear back into Cartoon Network's programmers to stay on top. :)

[Nelson]

I personally think that CN is wasting their time and money on the newer cartoons that just don't have drawing power that Dexter and the Powerpuff Girls had back in the late 90s.It sickens me that CN is also wasting money on picking up those god awful crap from Japan like, that @%#$ hamster(what's his name again?) and Baby Looney Tunes.Considering how bad the economic is today, CN should save their money wisley and pick up a show like "Totally Tooned In" and can anyone tell me why CN has picked up this series for Latin America AND NOT HERE????CN could save so much money of picking up this series, but they have to make more new "CrapToon Craptoons" that some of the current new shows should be canceled.The problem is that if CN wants top save the money, then they could pick up classic animation either show it on CN or their sister channel Boomerang, or whatever.The executives at CN should know that spending big bucks doesn't mean big ratings.....

COME ON CN, GET WITH IT!!!!!

[Pietro]

Despite all of our opinions here, I gotta agree with Matthew here, they shouldn't really change anything just simply rearrange it.

-Pietro:D

[Grant W.]

Originally posted by Matt Wilson
Haha.

That's a great way for them to go bankrupt, lose all their sponsors, and disappear from the market. Good one.

Matt, you're forgetting that these are all great cartoons. These are the epitomy of what a cartoon is! :) Any animation is going to appeal to 10 and under and older people are going to appreciate them coming back.

[Grant W.]

Originally posted by Steve Carras
Some words of advice to Cartoon Network"
DROP ALL THOSE CARTOON CARTOON SHOWS AND SUCH THAT YOU HAVE FOISTED ON US SINCE THE 1990s ONWARD, INCL>TE CURRENT JUNK, AND SHOW 1960s-70s SHOWS (SCOOBY DOO included, but not as much.)

(Caps intended for EMPHASIS! :D )


They should take off BOOMERANG the channell and just make CN that.Cause in part that is what CN USED to be pre-Boomerang. :D

Some suggestions
1950s-60s Hanna-Barbera FIVE HOURS a day like on Boomerang
Linus the Lion-heeartrd,1964-69
The OLD Alvin Show, not the Ruby-Spears or successors one,
1961-1965
Sinbad Jr.1965 (BOTH Sam Singer & Hanna-Barbera)
Hanna-Barbera's Laurel and Hardy (1966) and Abbott and Costello (1967)
Rocky and Bullwinkle and anything else Jay Ward
Underdog and all other Total TV shows
Anything independent that aired in 1960s (Col.Bleep, Clutch Cargo)
King Features Syndicate toons
UPA TV cartoons

However
you can have Cartoon Planet, Brak and Space Ghost Coast to Coast, those three interrlated shows.Hilarious!

Because with few exceptions the made-for-TV cartoons that they
show are almost always 1980s or later, and stuff like Gundam (I can think of a SIMILIAR word, one uttered by 1980s Eddie Murphy when he played Gumby, to describe GUNDAM),Cowboye BEBOP?? As a Charlie Parker hater and Dave Brubeck AND Gene Autry fan I RESENT Cowboy BEBOP
's very name (Cowoy COOLJAZZ,maynoe??)

Why not just dumpCODENAME and these other shows created within the last 25 years and just out oin what Boomerang has, esp.since CN started out that way (and Boomerang IS a CN spinoff network anyhow.) Besides I don't control the finances in my houseeholds and too many oif usa do not even HAVE Boomerang, but when I go to Vegas I'll be able to find it as I did last year (i am going next month.)

Heck, 90 percent of the last 5 years worth of Cartoon network originals I haven';t even HEARD of!

A devoted Baby Boomer, Steve C.

(who thanks GOD for Gilligan and Fred Sanford and the BRadys on Nick at Nite..I onmly wish Ren and Stimpy would return to NciK)

Steve, I like the way you think!

I tell ya, when I was kid back in the 80's and grew up with ABC, NBC, and CBS I enjoyed shows like Real Ghostbusters, Smurfs, Looney Tunes, THe Littles, Dungeons and Dagons and stuff like that. I remember going to my cousin's house about 3 hours drive away and they had a local station that aired classic Woody Woodpecker and Terrytoons shows and I was totally enthralled and I couldn't be torn away from the tv set watching these shows! They never aired on Sat. mornings on the big 3 and I had never seen them before. I think kids are the same all over and Im sure they'd watch Woody Woodpecker and something similar. Problem is, kids are force fed this cap that CN is forcing them. CN should know better. If I ran that station, I would have had these cartoons airing the very first day! Woody is a CARTOON!! Hamtaro and Doug!?!?!? What the hell is that?????

[Waggytoon]

Let me put it to you this way: CN's declines have been caused by their programming snafus in all dayparts, whether rudely replacing an episode that was not to be replaced at all, or yanking a series that has never ever completed an entire run, or airing those 'redrawn'/edited/combo of the two classic 'Looney Tunes" that shouldn't even be existing anymore, or even not airing a very popular "Boomerang Spotlight Year" for almost an entire calendar year! Not to mention taking one of the best original series and reworking it into a 'remix' form in the late primetime hours!
Then again, Nickelodeon has abused their last-minute change routine way too much, and for many CatDog/Lola Caricola fans, Sunday afternoon was the last straw. Nick was to air a full hour of "CatDog" starring Lola Caricola (except for one segment though), but the network harassed the viewers by airing that jerk nature girl who talks to animals or maybe it was those extreme brats of sporting disaster! In either case, Nick pushed devoted fans off their cliff, in a matter of speaking.
If CN and Nick, and maybe in a sense, Toon Disney, want to get back in true fandom, they're going to need to make some major adjustments as quickly as possible. For there are a lot of viewers who appreciate the series on those networks, and some are trying to tape a complete series for their personal video library. But when episodes are skipped by the networks, it ruins the whole taping plan of the fan trying to acquire all the eps in their exact programming order.
Sorry. I just lost my thought pattern thanks to a jerk at the library telling me my time on the web is up, when it really isn't!! I'll try to get my thoughts back sometime later, and complete what I'm trying to mention here......whatever this was.:mad: :bosko: :bubbles: :knd1:

[Killtacular]

Matt, you're forgetting that these are all great cartoons. These are the epitomy of what a cartoon is! Any animation is going to appeal to 10 and under and older people are going to appreciate them coming back.
I can't even begin to swallow some of the stuff in this thread, but right here is one I KNOW I can't swallow. If Looney Tunes are so 'popular', why aren't they doing well in the ratings? And I'm not talking about shows at 1 am, I'm talking about shows in the afternoon.. when kids are getting home and first turning on the TV. Neither Tom & Jerry or ACME Hour in the afternoon, have ever made it into the top telecasts.

It has nothing to do with how great Looney Tunes are. Kids just don't want to watch them. YOUR kids might, because you raise them up to like them. But you're in the minority.

And I am NOT trying to bash Looney Tunes by saying that. I'm merely bashing the new generation of kids that grow up hating this kind of material. I dealt with it when I grew up in the 80s. My older brother HATED LTs becuase of their age. And now, in the new millenium, my YOUNGER brother HATES them.. because of their age.

Prove to me that there is a huge enough audience to warrant converting the channel into a LT-only/Boomerang channel, and I'll step out of the way. But you have no proof. Because there isn't a huge enough audience. If CN were to remove everything but Looney Tunes, THEY WOULD GO BANKRUPT AND OUT OF BUSINESS.

Not to mention Kids WB would never let them. How, then, would they be able to collaborate on crappy synergistic excercises like Teen Titans?

I agree with you on Baby Looney Tunes, and the Sylvester & Tweety Mysteries for that matter. Both of those shows SUCK, and CN is considering them "2 hours of Looney fun"...

And I agree that the advertising stinks, but CN has to deal with the cards they've been dealt. CN never -WANTED- Baby Looney Tunes. But as long as they have to air it, they might as well try to get ratings out of it, you know?

Freakazoid (I'm not going to say how much I hate this show) is on at 5am. The other three Speilberg shows you mentioned are currently in the hands of Nickelodeon.

Freakazoid rocks. And Nickelodeon sucks at handling the Spielburg shows. Meh.

Face it, despite all of our complaining, CN is never going to cancel Scooby Doo. They could tone down the airings of him a bit, but that's all they'd do. Besides, if it wasn't for the 4am Scooby Movie, how would I get all of those nice looking Toon Extras?

Scooby Doo is this annoying franchise that can't be lived with and can't be lived without. It doesn't get good ratings anymore, but Kids WB wants to keep audiences interested in the property so that "What's New Scooby Doo" can prosper. After all, WB owns Scooby after all.

CN only uses Scooby Doo to fill programming holes, really. Noontime has always been Scooby Doo, for the past several years (although they used to air Freakazoid at noon, briefly).

But take a look at it this way.

Scooby Doo used to be on more than 30 hours a week! In the morning, at lunch, in the afternoon, on primetime, and during the late night.

NOW look at it. It's only 2 hours a day! And only one hour of the show is during normal hours of the day. I'd say that's a pretty damn good improvement.

Cartoon Network's biggest section of their library is classic cartoons, and they're totally being ignorant of that.

Eh, if they were being ignorant, there wouldn't even BE a Toon Heads, a Bob Clampett show, a Popeye Show, a Late Night Black & White, or ANYTHING like that.

If they were truly ignorant, they'd just air stuff in a tiny hour-long block, twice a day, and call it "Looney Tunes(various)", and nothing more. In case you forgot, that's how NICKELODEON did it. But, oh, I guess they're almighty gods because they aired more stuff without realizing there was content in it that's deemed un-PC. Once again, that's ALSO ignorance on their behalf. They never CARED about Looney Tunes. They only had a spoonful of toons, and you'd see Rabbit Seasonings almost every other day.

I'm very grateful that CN isn't like that.

Honestly, WB should take away CN's rights to being the only channel to play the cartoons, and put out syndicated packages of them.

WB won't do that, because WB doesn't care about the old Looney Tunes anymore. Only the new ones. And I doubt they care that much about the new ones either.

Every local network in the country will want to pick up "Bugs Bunny & Friends" or "Tom & Jerry and Company"!!!

..nah, I doubt that. The only cartoons I see syndicated these days are crap from BKN and mindless E/I garbage. Back in the 90s, local networks DID enjoy putting on classic cartoons (at least Bullwinkle, anyway), but they sure don't anymore. I'm sure they'd rather be airing "Generic Court Show With Some Badass Judge."

the shows that should go first are all Discontinued Cartoon C. shows still overplaying today (Cow and chicken (this show imo stunk since it premired), Mike lu and og, baby loney tunes (stories and sound are really bad and yes i know it still new but there are stories saying CN may discontinue soon), Cartoon cartoon show that had all the piolets for the current line up of CC shows (first epse of Dextor, Mike, Cow and chicken, Grim and evel, etc)).

1. Mike Lu and Og only airs on Sunday mornings. Who exactly is it hurting?

2. I like the Cartoon Cartoon Show. I like seeing prototypes of shows, and I especially like to see how some famous cartoon creators got their start on the market. My favorite pilot is Larry and Steve, from Family Guy's Seth MacFarlane.

REmove all the overplayed Theatrical HB/columbia shows(boomerang preview), ( yogi, huck, ) as these have seeen so much overplay on CN line up its unreal and it stinks.

But Boomerang only airs on weekend late nights.. the only people really tuning in are insomniacs that need to get to sleep. It doesn't really matter WHAT CN puts there.

replace late nite b/w to a full hour, new epsodes of toon heads, put all the directors shows on (bob clampet, tex avery, chuck johns, frez freeling (there was a show in the works for him but unknow if it going to make it.)

I think CN will be doing all of these things for the summer.

replace bugs and daffy, acme hour, and new popeye shows that show full toons (this was great, i seen parts in popeye cartoons that i never knew about),

Again, stuff you should be seeing by the summer. Popeye Shows don't grow on trees, it takes time to produce all of them.

Star blazers (come on its been off the air for 20 yrs its time for a comback), to toonami, even put pokemon there (i know i know i hear for that).

1. CN only owned the internet rights to Star Blazers. If they wanted the television rights, they would have acquired it, but it seems as if they have no interest.

2. Pokemon should not be on Toonami. It's not an action cartoon by any stretch of the imagination.

even return robot jones, (that was a good show and had that classic old school toon look)

Robot Jones is returning with a new season in the Fall.

No, I think the problem might lie in what J Lee said. Some cartoons hold up well in constant repeats, others don't. Think of all the cartoons seen on Saturday mornings in the '60s, '70s, and '80s. Some of them became big rerun hits, other ones just died out. Maybe it's just time for CN to start to weed out the shows that don't rerun well.

Well, right now, the shows that CN -did- cancel still have episodes left to air before they can really be taken off the air. Grim and Evil has 10 episodes left, Time Squad has 5 episodes left, Ed Edd n Eddy has 8 episodes left.

The only CC that's in repeats that's safe to go off the air is Cow and Chicken. But if you ask me, I'd rather they take off the OTHER show in 10-11 am (Tom & Jerry Kids, BLECH).

They should take off BOOMERANG the channell and just make CN that.Cause in part that is what CN USED to be pre-Boomerang.

And CN USED to be that, because back then, their audience was so small, and their budget so miniscule, that the only thing they could afford to air was Hanna Barbera material.

If CN back then had the budget they do now, the CN in 1992 would definitely resemble the CN of today, or at least the CN of 2000.

CN's audience has grown too large to just say "you know what? Screw you. We're only going to care about this tiny 20% of you now."

The executives at CN should know that spending big bucks doesn't mean big ratings.....

Without new material, CN can't get big ratings. New material requires spending big. CN's budget has to support at least 4 new shows a year, to keep viewers tuned in. Noone's going to tune into a network that's just reruns. CCF has grown so monumentally important to CN that they can't survive without it. That's why they've been trying to incorporate new content throughout the week, through Saturday Video Entertainment System, Toonami, and Adult Swim.

So, YOU get with it, I guess is what I'm trying to say.

Not to mention taking one of the best original series and reworking it into a 'remix' form in the late primetime hours!

I don't get you, Waggytoon. You said you LIKED that idea when it was introduced.


In summary:

What CN -needs- to do:

Continue to acquire new anime to keep kids 6-11 and adults 18-34 watching the major programming blocks.
Develop new hit series for Cartoon Cartoon Fridays that DON'T suck (Craig McCracken's new series should be good).
Establish a better weekday lineup, and re-tool Saturdays to be a more plentiful Looney Tunes source. Don't just make Saturday MORNING a Looney Tune thing, make Saturday DAY a Looney Tune thing. Start off with The Looney Tunes Show, then go into each director's specific show, then Toon Heads, then ACME Hour, then Tom & Jerry, then any other classic cartoon properties that CN may one day acquire, and THEN resume normal programming. You'd have about 8-9 hours of Looney Tune programming right there. Nothing to scoff at.
Bring Adult Swim closer to primetime. There's an hour too much of overplayed Cartoon Cartoon material. Move Samurai Jack and Justice League to 9-10 PM, Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh to 8-9 PM, and place Jackie Chan and X-Men Evo from 7-8 PM. You'd then have a decent transitional gate from Toonami to Adult Swim, AND you'd be giving Kids WB their required intake.
Place Toonami Rising Sun in the mornings and knock out those CC reruns. Except for ones that people would actually tune into, of course.
Keep Hamtaro, Sylvester, and BLT. Well, CN has no choice, I imagine. But only give each show ONE episode. Don't give them a full hour.

The ideal weekday lineup. One that offers something for EVERYONE. Not just for LT fans:


RSun: 6 AM - Max Steel
RSun: 6:30 AM - Dragon Ball
RSun: 7:00 AM - Batman: TAS
RSun: 7:30 AM - Superman: TAS
RSun: 8:00 AM - He-Man
RSun: 8:30 AM - Transformers Armada
9:00 AM - Hamtaro
9:30 AM - Baby Looney Tunes
10:00 AM - Sylvester and Tweety Mysteries
10:30 AM - Scooby Doo, Where Are You?
LT: 11:00 AM - ACME Hour (full hour)
LT: 12:00 PM - Toon Heads
LT: 12:30 PM - The Popeye Show
1:00 PM - Tom & Jerry (full hour)
LT: 2:00 PM - Bugs & Daffy (full hour)
3:00 PM - Freakazoid
3:30 PM - Batman: TAS
TOONAMI: 4:00 PM - Zoids: CC
TOONAMI: 4:30 PM - G Gundam
TOONAMI: 5:00 PM - Dragon Ball/Z
TOONAMI: 5:30 PM - Dragon Ball GT
TOONAMI: 6:00 PM - Yu Yu Hakusho
TOONAMI: 6:30 PM - Rurouni Kenshin
CN PRIME: 7:00 PM - X-Men Evolution
CN PRIME: 7:30 PM - Jackie Chan Adventures
CN PRIME: 8:00 PM - Pokemon
CN PRIME: 8:30 PM - The Powerpuff Girls
CN PRIME: 9:00 PM - Samurai Jack
CN PRIME: 9:30 PM - Justice League
AS: 10:00 PM - Family Guy
AS: 10:30 PM - Futurama
AS: 11:00 PM - ATHF/Brak/Sealab
AS: 11:30 PM - Lupin III
AS: 12:00 AM - Trigun
AS: 12:30 AM - Inuyasha
AS: 1:00 AM - Reign
AS: 1:30 AM - Cowboy Bebop
LT: 2:00 AM - Late Night Black & White (full hour)
3:00 AM - Tom and Jerry (full hour)
4:00 AM - Scooby Doo Movies
5:00 AM - The Flintstones
5:30 AM - The Jetsons

[rodney]

I'll never quite understand Matt's extreme loyalty to Cartoon Network, but on at least some issues, he is right. As much as I love Looney Tunes and other classic cartoons, the mass public would never stand for the network only becoming that. And besides, it doesn't have to. Cartoon Network should be the one stop spot for cartoon lovers of all kinds, not just classics, not just anime, not just Cartoon Cartoons.

I'm not familiar with any of the non-classic programming that CN airs, but this seems to be a pretty good lineup to me.

6am: Bugs & Daffy
6:30: Tom & Jerry
7:00: action/anime etc.
7:30: action/anime etc.
8:00: cartoon-cartoon
8:30: cartoon-cartoon
9:00: baby lt
9:30: sylv & tweety mysteries
10:00 scooby doo
10:30 flintstones
11:00 cartoon-cartoon
11:30 cartoon-cartoon
12:00 bugs & daffy
1:00 tom & jerry
2:00 toonheads
2:30 popeye show
3:00-5:30 action/anime
5:30-7:00 cartoon/cartoon
7:00: Toonheads
7:30: Popeye Show
8:00-11:00 CN Primetime
11:00-1:00 Adult Swim
1:00-2:00 Late Nite Black & White
2:00: Flintstones
2:30: Jetsons
3:00-4:00 misc HB cartoons
4:00-5:00 New Scooby Doo movies
5:00: The Bullwinkle Show
5:30: Underdog

[Killtacular]

Ooh! I agree that Underdog should get some airtime on CN. Heee.

I don't think Toonami will ever have a dangling half-hour, though. It'd either be 2 or 3 hours long.

Don't agree about Adult Swim being reduced to two hours. There's too many programs in their library for them to do that.

Seriously, I'd rather they limit the Cartoon Cartoon airings per weekdays. That would increase demand to watch CCF, don't you think? Everyone wins. Then CN has extra time on weekdays to put on LTs/whatever, and noone here has to complain about CC reruns.

But personally, I like my schedule better. I'd probably put Underdog on in place of Freakazoid. Sorry, Freak.

[rodney]

Originally posted by Matt Wilson

I don't think Toonami will ever have a dangling half-hour, though. It'd either be 2 or 3 hours long.


Actually, I have a 1 hour block and a 2.5 hour block for Toonami or the Superhero shows or whatever else they show during those times.

[Killtacular]

Well, depends on how many people would get up in the morning to watch Toonami. Though I know there will be some. But Toonami would never do 2.5. Just 2 or 3. If it were 2, I'd try to schedule regular action shows in the gap that's made. Ones that haven't been on Toonami, like Batman/Superman, or the Filmation shorts, or Swat Kats, or Silverhawks. Something like that.

Anyway, noone's expecting you to know what's IN Toonami or anything, heh. So long as you acknowledge that it's required to be there for CN not to lose money. :D

[rodney]

Yeah, I have no idea what's on Toonami, or really most of Cartoon Network's other programming. 90% of it just doesn't interest me. I won't even have Cartoon Network for another month or so, so who am I to say anything.

[Matthew Hunter]

Originally posted by Matt Wilson
I can't even begin to swallow some of the stuff in this thread, but right here is one I KNOW I can't swallow. If Looney Tunes are so 'popular', why aren't they doing well in the ratings? And I'm not talking about shows at 1 am, I'm talking about shows in the afternoon.. when kids are getting home and first turning on the TV. Neither Tom & Jerry or ACME Hour in the afternoon, have ever made it into the top telecasts.

It has nothing to do with how great Looney Tunes are. Kids just don't want to watch them. YOUR kids might, because you raise them up to like them. But you're in the minority.

And I am NOT trying to bash Looney Tunes by saying that. I'm merely bashing the new generation of kids that grow up hating this kind of material. I dealt with it when I grew up in the 80s. My older brother HATED LTs becuase of their age. And now, in the new millenium, my YOUNGER brother HATES them.. because of their age.

Prove to me that there is a huge enough audience to warrant converting the channel into a LT-only/Boomerang channel, and I'll step out of the way. But you have no proof. Because there isn't a huge enough audience. If CN were to remove everything but Looney Tunes, [b]THEY WOULD GO BANKRUPT AND OUT OF BUSINESS.

Not to mention Kids WB would never let them. How, then, would they be able to collaborate on crappy synergistic excercises like Teen Titans?



And I agree that the advertising stinks, but CN has to deal with the cards they've been dealt. CN never -WANTED- Baby Looney Tunes. But as long as they have to air it, they might as well try to get ratings out of it, you know?
B]

Not to be rude, Matt, but you know all of this...how? Do you work for CN and know exactly what they think? You may be right, but still, I wouldn't just do CN's thinking for them. I've noticed that you are a little bit defensive of CN and a little disrespectful to those on this board who don't like their treatment of the classics.

"I cant even begin to swallow some of the stuff in this thread..."
Well, that's nice. Choke on it then. This ain't the Toonami board :)

Now, the ratings argument...maybe the Acme Hour and Tom and Jerry stuff has not done as well as other shows because they don't get the creative advertising. And of course the Acme Hour got FALSE advertising...they labelled it as "all you favorite Looney Tunes characters", when really it was a collection of one-shot cartoons from WB and MGM mixed with badly colorized Popeye cartoons.

Which one does CN put more effort into advertising? CCF, or Acme Hour?

-Matthew

[Jon Cooke]

Originally posted by Matt Wilson
If Looney Tunes are so 'popular', why aren't they doing well in the ratings? And I'm not talking about shows at 1 am, I'm talking about shows in the afternoon.. when kids are getting home and first turning on the TV. Neither Tom & Jerry or ACME Hour in the afternoon, have ever made it into the top telecasts.

If Adult Swim is so 'popular', how come we never see Brak or Harvey Birdman in the top telecasts?


-Jon

[The Silver Fox]

you can add another toon to that list,
Johnny bravo, looks like he is ending also

[Pilmedium]

Toonheads and Popeye Show do not need to air on weekdays, no matter how many episodes they get. An hour of Bugs and Daffy, an hour of Tom and Jerry, and a late-night Acme Hour would be enough for weekdays. All other classic cartoon shows could go on weekends.

[J Lee]

I can't even begin to swallow some of the stuff in this thread, but right here is one I KNOW I can't swallow. If Looney Tunes are so 'popular', why aren't they doing well in the ratings? And I'm not talking about shows at 1 am, I'm talking about shows in the afternoon.. when kids are getting home and first turning on the TV. Neither Tom & Jerry or ACME Hour in the afternoon, have ever made it into the top telecasts.

Saying the Looney Tunes are unpopular would probably deeply hurt the folks over at AOL Time Warner, since they're in the process of pumping a gob of money into a feature film starring the characters and directed by Joe Dante which is to be the studio's big Thanksgiving-Christmas release (which apparently will coincide with the release of the Looney Tunes DVDs according to the hint Jerry dropped in another thread).

What they are -- and what anything on television is -- is fatigueable if you play them too much. Run Bugs or Daffy, Tom and Jerry, Droopy, Popeye, whatever to the point that too many people have seen the same episodes over and over again, and fewer people will watch.

The difference with the Looney Tunes, and what kept them going on TV continuiously for the past 46 years, is that their "rewatchability" factor was high enough so that by the time one group of kids might get tired of watching them, there was another group just discovering the cartoons. But until the arrival of the cable channels like CN, the cartoons were usually shown in 30 minute blocks on weekdays, and 30, 60 or 90 minutes on Saturday mornings and that was it. CN and Nick in the 1990s boosted the availability of the cartoons way above what had ever been possible before, and it stayed that way into the late 90s, even as CN was acquiring the rights to all the WB cartoons while at the same time pairing down the cartoons they did have in frequent rotation to the ones with their biggest "stars."

Add to that Mr. Turner's apparent dislike of fast Mexican mice and any Indian characters, and you cut the list down further. The result at first was probably better ratings because the key characters were always "on" but those slipped later as the same cartoons were aired over and over again.

However, unlike most made-for-TV stuff, the Warners cartoons have shown the ability to bounce back over the years and find new audiences, or recapture old ones if you give them the proper treatment -- i.e. don't overplay the same shorts all the time -- because the density of both visual and verbal business in them means you can come back to one after the Xth time watching it and still find something new. Most made-for-TV stuff fails to do that, and as a result can't sustain itself once new episodes end and the old ones have been rerun enough times.

Will the "Cartoon Cartoons" overcome that problem? Like I said, the jury's still out on "Dexter" and "The Powerpuff Girls" but I doubt the others will be adorning books, lunchboxes, pajamas or bedcovers a decade from now. That doesn't mean CN's going to abandon making original cartoons, since it's got 168 hours of airtime to fill each week. But is also doesn't mean its abandoning its most solid franchise either.

[Pietro]

Sure Adult Swim, the newer Cartoon Cartoons, and Toonami are popular NOW. But they'll be forgotten in 2 or three decades from now. It'll fade into obscuity, whereas Bugs and Daffy will NEVER go out of style beacuse they're CLASSIC!

Webster defines the word classic in the English dictionary as "having lasting significance or worth.

-Pietro:D

[Killtacular]

If Adult Swim is so 'popular', how come we never see Brak or Harvey Birdman in the top telecasts?

The Brak Show is one of the lesser shows on the network, which is why CN is ordering less episodes of it now. It's kind of hard for Harvey Birdman to get ratings when it hasn't been on the air for several months. When it returns in April, with new episodes, we'll see how it does.

Adult Swim actually is getting popular, though it took a little while for word to spread. Adult Swim is now beating broadcast networks like NBC (Last Call), ABC (Jimmy Kimmel), CBS (Craig Kilborn), and other primetime players like Comedy Central (The Daily Show).

I apologize if I sounded harsh. I don't mean to be rude, I'm just trying to be realistic. The only reason Looney Tunes made it into the ratings for December was because everything else did so pitifully (go ahead and take a shot at it, I don't care. CN -did- screw up in December and I won't defend that).

I'm not saying Looney Tunes are low-rated. I'm saying they aren't high-rated. They get an audience, but not a substantial audience to focus an entire network on. Like I said, I don't bash LTs and I'm not bashing LT fans.

The only reason I'm defensive of CN and think for them is because noone from CN is going to come here and explain themselves. Not that they have the time. As much as you think I'm being unfair, I think you're being unfair at the same time. That's what makes us seem like polar opposites, but I am trying to be on your side too. I agree that CN needs to pay better care to classic cartoons, but they shouldn't make it the focus of the network, which some people had said they wanted CN to do. They should just give it equal treatment.

If I'm not mistaken, someone DID say that CN was going to try and improve upon the classic cartoon situation by the summer.

[Killtacular]

Sure Adult Swim, the newer Cartoon Cartoons, and Toonami are popular NOW. But they'll be forgotten in 2 or three decades from now. It'll fade into obscuity, whereas Bugs and Daffy will NEVER go out of style beacuse they're CLASSIC!

Hey, I'm not arguing that. I think that a lot of shows on CN are forgettable, but the best thing about the network is that they give people full creative control over their shows, and let the artists write the shows instead of a separate room full of writers. So if a show is bad, it's simply the creator's fault, not the fault of crappy executives that try to stick their fingers into everyone's business.

The shows in Adult Swim are especially forgettable, but this is just the starting point. I wouldn't say 2 Stupid Dogs was a great show, but it led to much better programming after a while. What Adult Swim needs is a decent budget, which they don't get, and probably won't get for a while.

I would say Home Movies is classic though. It's genuine conversational humor. Not forced, not cheesy, not routine, and they don't stoop to resorting to parodies as a crutch. It's something that will still be funny 20 years from now, even though some of the things in the episodes will probably become dated (the film equipment, for one).

[Howard]

Audience tastes change over the years. Not just Looney Tunes, but all sorts of "classic" films and properties are having a hard time winning over new audiences. Perhaps to today's audiences, the 40's and 50's seem very far away to them, even further away than they seemed in the 70's and the 80's, making it harder for new viewers to latch on to such things. People here, (myself included) tend to view these cartoons through the rose colored glasses of nostalgia. We are upset to see them disappear because we grew up with Bugs, Porky and Daffy, and are very fond of them and would like to be able to share them with future generations, in the hope that they will love them as much as we do. In a way, we're not just trying to preserve the history of Hollywood cartooning, but also to keep just a small bit of our past from diappearing as well. Even I have to admit that while I would like to do so, it's not necessarily realistic. Bugs and the gang may not ever totally vanish, but they really don't have the pull with modern kids that they did with previous generations. (And I know I'm gonna get any number of people saying that "my kids/younger siblings LOVE the old cartoons! You're full of crap saying all that!" :p )

[J. J. Hunsecker]

Originally posted by Howard
Audience tastes change over the years. Not just Looney Tunes, but all sorts of "classic" films and properties are having a hard time winning over new audiences. Perhaps to today's audiences, the 40's and 50's seem very far away to them, even further away than they seemed in the 70's and the 80's, making it harder for new viewers to latch on to such things. People here, (myself included) tend to view these cartoons through the rose colored glasses of nostalgia. We are upset to see them disappear because we grew up with Bugs, Porky and Daffy, and are very fond of them and would like to be able to share them with future generations, in the hope that they will love them as much as we do. In a way, we're not just trying to preserve the history of Hollywood cartooning, but also to keep just a small bit of our past from diappearing as well. Even I have to admit that while I would like to do so, it's not necessarily realistic. Bugs and the gang may not ever totally vanish, but they really don't have the pull with modern kids that they did with previous generations. (And I know I'm gonna get any number of people saying that "my kids/younger siblings LOVE the old cartoons! You're full of crap saying all that!" :p )
How can you say these cartoons are not popular with todays kids when todays kids have never even seen the original Looney Tunes? They see edited, colorized, electronically sped-up versions of them. Hell, I hate to watch those versions of them myself, which is why I cancelled my cable subscription. Only in the late hours would CN play the cartoons the way they ought to be presented, unedited and at the proper speed (although sometimes a colorized one crops up). Kids can't see these versions because they air late at night. Present the right versions to them, then see if they like them. I believe the majority of todays children do like them. I was at a revival showing of the movie The Bridge on the River Kwai a few years ago. For some reason the theater showed a Bugs Bunny cartoon before the feature, which was quite a surprise for the audience. When logo of Bugs' head appeared in those concentric circles I heard a little girl's voice (she couldn't have been older than 4 or 5 years old) excitedly yell out, "It's Bugs Bunny, Ma! BUGS BUNNY!!" (Or something to that effect, I'm paraphrasing here.) I never heard anybody so happy in all my life. I know it is only one child, but I'm willing to bet that she represents many, many kids in her age group.

As for the cartoons not meaning the same for kids today, that's preposterous. The majority of those cartoons are not dated. My brother was shocked to find out that Duck Dodgers in the 24 1/2 Century was made in the fifties. It looked so modern to him, the colors were so bright, not like those faded live action films we were used to seeing on tv. There are some, especially from the war years that have some dated references, but the overall cartoons are still easy for any child to understand -- A Road Runner and Coyote cartoon, for instance. When I was a kid, I never knew that the cars, clothing and props were from the 40's in classic cartoons. That's the wonderful thing about a cartoon drawing, it is simply a generalized representation of certain objects, even when it has a lot of detail or is based on something specific. A drawing of a certain make and model of an auto ends up representing all cars, not just a 1949 Mercury Club Coupe, for instance. This is not true for live action, which always looks dated. Look at any movie from even ten or twenty years ago and they already show there age (I, myself, feel a real embarrassment when I see movies from the early eighties.) Another reason may be that the classic cartoons are only presented on cable stations, making it harder for those without cable to view them. When I was a kid they were on the regualr network stations as well as the independant local UHF stations, making it far easier to watch them.

Also, today in the age of home video and DVD, many people are discovering and buying movies and cartoons that are old, some even as much as a century. Age has nothing to do with enjoyment. "New audiences" will still find Citizen Kane and The Maltese Falcon entertaining years from now. Sure, when things change radically from now, when people are flying their personal hovercrafts instead of driving cars, then maybe "new audiences" will have trouble relating to old movies and cartoons.

As some of the posters here have mention, too, the merchandising from the cartoons still sells. The movie Space Jam, believe it or not, was a big hit (and it wasn't because of Michael Jorden). That's the reason why Warners wants to make an unofficial sequel with Looney Tunes: Back in Action. The executives at Warners may not personally care about these cartoons (executives seemed to be culled from people who didn't have a normal childhood, people who read the Wall Street Journel as a kid and owned polo ponies) even they are not dumb enough to fail to recognize a merchandizing juggernaut when they see it.

[The Silver Fox]

i have to agree, with the excusive rights to one cable channel, that
just doesn't give a **** (fillin the blank with your own word here if you know what I mean, excuse me for this), about its loyal viewers makes you wonder what will be next.

I myself grew up watching all the classic toons in the 1970's and 80's from MGM, Universal, WB, Columbia, Disney, paramont and King Fetures, and got to see thses on a local VHF channels. In San Diego most of these for the exception of Disney were shown on local XETV channel 6 (before Fox took it over in the late 80's), and even today some of those are still shown there, i know they still showed Popeye toons in the mid 90's (unknown if they still do as i live in PUeblo now), in an early morning time slot (6-8 am). Disney i got to see on the local Channel 39 in San Diego.

Seeing less stations carring classic toons and even the networks dumping there line ups for terriable Saturday line ups (currently ABC, Fox and UPN carry decent toon line ups, CBS is just reshowing older Nick shows that are slowly getting tired fast.)

It was sad to see the last of the classic shows leave ABC and WB networks in the late 90's, and also Syndication.

NBC's droping there animated line up was i think there biggest mistake there all saturday morning TOday show, was dumped in the mid 90's when its ratings tanked.

there are some still trying to keep the classic animation up,
Disney with Tale spin, gummi bears and gaygoyes (all had great stories, terific animation and staying power) keept the old schoolers happy.

Lets hope Disney, WB and Parramont will release all there shows on DVD as they way they should be shown (i know for a fact Gummi Bears had 4 epsodes that never aired to this day and the rummer is the DVD will have these epsodes).

WB toons shown in letter box are great to see, as you finlly get to see part of the picture that have never been seen before.

(the PBS show about Chuck Jones showed RR toons in Letterbox and it was great to see the WHOle picture, they also showed GRinch, and Duck dodgers, and tom and jerry toons he did letterboxed.)

Lets hope some day we do get our wish and get what we want and hope that the dump of toons that now run free on the networks and cable (ren and stimpy style toons, i know i hear for this) will die off and the classic will be alowed to shine again.