This Probably Doesnt Prove A Thing (Regarding Z Gundam)

[Spike Mcdougal]

Well look at this picture from the Toyfair

http://www.alteredstatesmag.com/gallery/view_photo.php?full=1&set_albumName=tf2k3-gundam&id=SignOfZeta


I'll leave it at that

[NewLib]

If its real, its pretty damn good evidence that adds to the other signs already pointing that way.

[Killtacular]

That is the signiest sign ever.

[NewLib]

Originally posted by Matt Wilson
That is the signiest sign ever.

Uhh...... I believe I am confused now.

[Karl Olson]

Originally posted by Spike Mcdougal
Well look at this picture from the Toyfair

http://www.alteredstatesmag.com/gallery/view_photo.php?full=1&set_albumName=tf2k3-gundam&id=SignOfZeta


I'll leave it at that

wow. Thats a small hint. If by small you mean giant.

[Nobuyuki sama]

Originally posted by nothing
someone should photoshop the heck out of that picture.
...UH oh...

[Killtacular]

Tyler already did. Heh.

[NewLib]

Im confused. By the simplicity of it, I thought it was fake. Am I missing something?

[Killtacular]

It's a real image. That site wouldn't ********. They're pretty reliable for info, and they were the first to break the story about Armada at least year's Toy Fair, if I'm not mistaken.

[ohmrbill]

Originally posted by Matt Wilson
Tyler already did. Heh.

Where? Lemme see!

[Karl Olson]

Originally posted by nothing
someone should photoshop the heck out of that picture.

um ok:


http://216.136.200.194/auction/Feb/20032185446447077743804.jpg



disclaimer - the following was a photoshop has nothing to do with the actual destination of that show.

[livingfruitvirus]

Tyler's....

http://tylerl.dyndns.org/SignOfZeta.jpg

[Nabuca]

Ah, finally some proof that Zeta Gundam will most likley end up on AS. Thank god, it is such a great series, one of my personal favorites. WS did the right thing, it is definatly NOT Toonami material.
EDIT:
http://members.aol.com/khaos512/omgoose.jpeg

[RedTail]

...YES! There is a God. His name is Bandai... Hell, I don't even know why I'm so excited. I'm just going to buy the DVD's anyways. Ah well, I can wait a while and get YYH first after I get a couple other things then.

- RedTail

[Nabuca]

Originally posted by RedTail
...YES! There is a God. His name is Bandai... Hell, I don't even know why I'm so excited. I'm just going to buy the DVD's anyways. Ah well, I can wait a while and get YYH first after I get a couple other things then.

- RedTail
Yeah im going to buy the DVDs as well, but its also good to see it get put on the right block.

[Karl Olson]

Originally posted by livingfruitvirus
Tyler's....

http://tylerl.dyndns.org/SignOfZeta.jpg

nice blurring on the sign's shine.

[Botman]

And yet CN STILL wont air the end of 0079...

I only pray they wait until after summer to premiere this series, as I won't get any money for the 0079 DVD's until then.

On a related note, do I need to watch 0080 and 0083 before watching this series?

[KingKoopa]

Originally posted by Botman
And yet CN STILL wont air the end of 0079...

I only pray they wait until after summer to premiere this series, as I won't get any money for the 0079 DVD's until then.

On a related note, do I need to watch 0080 and 0083 before watching this series? No, in fact I believe that 0080 and 0083 were created AFTER Zeta Gundam.

[Proteus3]

Originally posted by Botman

On a related note, do I need to watch 0080 and 0083 before watching this series?

No, you don't. Gundam 0080 is a sidestory, and Gundam 0083 makes more sense after you have seen Zeta.

[Botman]

Originally posted by Proteus3
Gundam 0083 makes more sense after you have seen Zeta.

Really? Because I always thought it was vice versa...

But I am concered because I heard they will be using Mobile Suits from 0080 and 0083 in the upcoming Superior Defender Gundam series, and I wont recognize them.

[Sheamon]

Originally posted by KingKoopa
No, in fact I believe that 0080 and 0083 were created AFTER Zeta Gundam.

Zeta Gundam was the first Gundam sequel, coming out in 85 if I remember correctly. 0080 and 0083 didn't come out til after Char's Counterattack. Seeing as none of the characters from 0079 are in the 2 OVAs, I wouldn't worry, although some of the characters from 0083 are in Zeta. I'm sure someone whose seen Z can fill us in on this, although AFAIK they're only cameos.

[Will Sturnick]

CN has to air the rest of MSG now. But wait, that makes sense so maybe not.

Originally posted by KingKoopa
No, in fact I believe that 0080 and 0083 were created AFTER Zeta Gundam.

They were.

[Sheamon]

Really? Because I always thought it was vice versa...


Blah. All I have to say is that I was confused to death the first few times I saw 0083, which seriously detracted from the quality of the show. All these different factions you're supposed to know about, and characters from Zeta you should know but you don't because you haven't seen it yet, its enough to drive you insane @_@ Add the fact that the characters are so annoying and it sure knocks it down to the lower eschelon of Gundam shows with me :mad:

[RedTail]

If you really want to watch 0083 before Zeta, take this advise:

- Read an analysis of Zeta or skim over the UC timeline. (Or just remember, Jamitov, Bask, Titans = Bad)
- Be willing to take an incredibly in-depth look at 0083.
- Make your own assumptions to fill in 0083's numerous plot holes.

- RedTail

[Botman]

Ok ok...so I'm gonna skip 0083. Good thing too, cause I have too much stuff already, what with 0079 and recently Yu Yu Hakusho to deal with.

Now I just have to figure out when Superior Defender is coming out so I can figure out when to do research on 0083's mecha while revealing minimal spoilers...

[RedTail]

Superior Defender has nothing to do w/ the Universal Century's storyline. It just borrows mobile suits from every other show and throws them into a cutesy cartoon designed to attract a very young audience. Think slightly above Teletubbies.

- RedTail

[Botman]

Originally posted by RedTail
Superior Defender has nothing to do w/ the Universal Century's storyline. It just borrows mobile suits from every other show and throws them into a cutesy cartoon designed to attract a very young audience. Think slightly above Teletubbies.

- RedTail


Really? I had no idea. I'm still curious about the series though.

I realize that SD is not connected to the story, I just want to familiarize myself with the Mobile Suits from 0083 before I see them. (i.e. what weapons they have, ect.)

[Proteus3]

Read and be overjoyed.

http://www.alteredstatesmag.com/toyfair_2003/gundam.php

Since Matt Wilson says it is a reliable site, then it looks like both sides of the argument were right. Gundam Zeta is going to air on both Toonami and Adult Swim.

[Sheamon]

Got the link from the GameFaqs Gundam board, very intersting stuff here... (although they spelt Astonage wrong :P I assume he's the same guy from Char's Counterattack, right?)

http://www.alteredstatesmag.com/toyfair_2003/gundam.php

Among other things...

-Gundam F91 is also coming to the US, on DVD and will be aired on Cartoon Network. This is no surprise to me, I predicted this last summer. Its a no brainer considering its a movie that (as far as I can tell from the Gundam Official Guide) isn't related to the main UC storyline.

-Zeta Gundam will air both on Toonami and Adult Swim, and there will be 2 different edits for it. Numerous Gundam shows will be airing on Adult Swim, and CN will be forming the schedule around that.

The only thing that makes no sense is they talk about Saturday night Adult Swim, which no longer exists. Its coming from Bandai, so it should be legit, although got no clue about that line.

EDIT: Looks like you beat me to it by 3 minutes :P

2nd EDIT: Here's even more info, from the gallery...

Apparantly there will be a saturday night action night, featuring 4 Gundam shows. The glare on the picture makes it hard to see everything, but from what I can tell its
G-Gundam (March - July) time unknown
Gundam 0080 (March - April) 12:30
MS Gundam (April - June) 12:30
Gundam Wing (June - Sept) 12:30

So it looks like they'll rotate through the final 3 shows, and who knows, maybe Zeta will pick up after Wing. Only 3 months for MS Gundam, maybe they'll pick up where they left off on ASA.

Looks like they're going all out on Zeta, check out the scheduled stuff here: http://www.alteredstatesmag.com/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=tf2k3-gundam&id=Plan_1

Wish they gave MS Gundam this much promotion :p

[Killtacular]

Yes, well. I'm a little confused about what Bandai may be up to. Saturday night is definitely not Adult Swim and I don't see them airing Zeta Gundam on both Toonami and Adult Swim. It may be better for Bandai's business but it wouldn't be good for AS' reputation, as I've said many times in the past. Plus, it'd be removing a lot of death and war from a show for no reason whatsoever. Just keep it on Adult Swim where it belongs.

I don't mind Toonami getting new programming, but not when it involves shows that have no right to be watered down there.

Plus it'd be wasteful because CN would have to spend money on double the amount of tapes. It's just an enormous waste of time and resources.

Seeing as that schedule had no airdate for Zeta, I'm willing to believe Bandai is just throwing out some empty promises and hoping that CN will obey them. Also, their plan includes "Midnight Run Giveaway". Uh, hello? Midnight Run doesn't exist anymore, chief.

I'm thinking Bandai is waaaaay out of the loop and needs some sense knocked into them.

[kkofofo]

this is way confusing and airing z gundam on two blocks. Its simple air z gundam on toonami but not adult swim or air on adult swim and not toonami either way.

[Beat]

In the words of Carl-

THANK YOU GOD!

(P.S.- we need a Carl Smiley)

[Will Sturnick]

Originally posted by Sheamon
[B]-Gundam F91 is also coming to the US, on DVD and will be aired on Cartoon Network. This is no surprise to me, I predicted this last summer. Its a no brainer considering its a movie that (as far as I can tell from the Gundam Official Guide) isn't related to the main UC storyline.[B]

Makes sense. And F-91 takes place 30 after the events of Char's Counterattack and was supposed to be a fresh start for Gundam, but the idea of a 52 episode show got turned into a 2 hour movie.

Originally posted by Sheamon
[B]Apparantly there will be a saturday night action night, featuring 4 Gundam shows. The glare on the picture makes it hard to see everything, but from what I can tell its
G-Gundam (March - July) time unknown
Gundam 0080 (March - April) 12:30
MS Gundam (April - June) 12:30
Gundam Wing (June - Sept) 12:30

So it looks like they'll rotate through the final 3 shows, and who knows, maybe Zeta will pick up after Wing. Only 3 months for MS Gundam, maybe they'll pick up where they left off on ASA.
[B]

One can only hope. Knowing CN, they'll start from the beginning and cut if off around episode 16. Then Gundam Wing will probably just air up to episode 20. Unless they're getting double airings.

[RedTail]

-Gundam F91 is also coming to the US, on DVD and will be aired on Cartoon Network. This is no surprise to me, I predicted this last summer. Its a no brainer considering its a movie that (as far as I can tell from the Gundam Official Guide) isn't related to the main UC storyline.

Shaemon, I'm pretty sure it does. It just never finishes up telling its story. I think the Crossbone Vanguard manga tells the rest of it.

- RedTail

[Anthony]

Yes, well. I'm a little confused about what Bandai may be up to. Saturday night is definitely not Adult Swim and I don't see them airing Zeta Gundam on both Toonami and Adult Swim. It may be better for Bandai's business but it wouldn't be good for AS' reputation, as I've said many times in the past.

I don't see how it will hurt AS' reputation if the AS version of Zeta Gundam is uncut while the Toonami version is edited. Other things have hurt AS' reputation far more (TVY7 versions of Outlaw Star, Tenchi, Pilot Candidate, Gundam 0083, and MSG on ASA; Fox Kids episodes of the Ripping Friends on ASC; TVY7 specials like the Groovenians and Lewis Lectures that should've been on some other block instead of AS; etc. etc. etc.).

Plus, it'd be removing a lot of death and war from a show for no reason whatsoever. Just keep it on Adult Swim where it belongs.

Who said they'd edit death and war from the Toonami version?

I don't mind Toonami getting new programming, but not when it involves shows that have no right to be watered down there.

If you object to the watering down so much, you don't have to watch it. As an adult you have the option of buying the uncut DVDs or watching the AS airings. Toonami's 6-11 year old target audience can watch the watered down version or, if their parents approve, watch the AS version or the DVDs.

Plus it'd be wasteful because CN would have to spend money on double the amount of tapes. It's just an enormous waste of time and resources.

Actually it's the opposite -- resources would be MAXIMIZED by doing something like this. For one thing, you assume that CN would have to spend extra money for two versions of the show, while the most likely scenario would be Bandai giving the the second version at little or no extra charge. As for the benefits, both CN and Bandai stand to benefit greatly from such a situation:

Bandai: benefits from increased exposure to two distinct demographic groups -- the 6-11 year old Toonami audience and the 18-34 year old AS audience. This means higher DVD sales due to a greater number of people seeing the show, and it means higher toy sales (it would be doubtful that many of those Zeta Gundam toys and model kits would be sold if Zeta Gundam only aired on AS -- the target audience of those things are kids and hardcore fans, and the hardcore fans are few in number and will buy them regardless of where it airs).

CN: benefits by simulataneously strengthening both the AS and the Toonami blocks with a strong show that has the potential to appeal to both demographics. It is doubtful that the viewing audience would be split, since as it is the people watching AS differ from the people watching Toonami. In addition, since it is very doubtful that Bandai would be charging a large amount of money for two versions of the show (since the potential profits for Bandai from two airings are huge), CN would be able to do it at a low cost as well, thus doing an even better job of maximizing profit. The presence of new episodes of a show on a block also serves to increase the ratings of the entire block as a whole, so having new episodes of Zeta Gundam airing concurrently on Toonami and AS would result in increased performance for the entire Toonami and AS blocks (as opposed to just airing more of the same old reruns).

Seeing as that schedule had no airdate for Zeta, I'm willing to believe Bandai is just throwing out some empty promises and hoping that CN will obey them. Also, their plan includes "Midnight Run Giveaway". Uh, hello? Midnight Run doesn't exist anymore, chief.

Where do you see a reference to a "Midnight Run Giveaway" in that article? I can't find it.

I'm thinking Bandai is waaaaay out of the loop and needs some sense knocked into them.

Do you truly believe that Bandai would make an announcement like this without having a deal already signed with CN? You know as well as I do that big companies don't make announcements like this when nothing has been agreed to, since it makes them look stupid and risk alienating people for absolutely no reason. Unless CN makes an announcement that Bandai is wrong, I see no reason to doubt what Bandai has announced, especially since it makes perfect business sense for both Bandai and CN.

Not to mention that it's not just Bandai making these types of announcements. Remember the Winter 2003 Anime Invasion article which quoted the CN Senior VP of Programming stating that new episodes of YYH will be airing on Adult Swim (even though it was recently announced that YYH will be airing on Toonami)? Are you really going to argue that every time someone says something that alludes Toonami/AS synergy that they're either out of the loop (Bandai) or misquoted (Mr. Kalagian)?

[SpaceCowboy]

Originally posted by Anthony
I don't see how it will hurt AS' reputation if the AS version of Zeta Gundam is uncut while the Toonami version is edited. Other things have hurt AS' reputation far more (TVY7 versions of Outlaw Star, Tenchi, Pilot Candidate, Gundam 0083, and MSG on ASA; Fox Kids episodes of the Ripping Friends on ASC; TVY7 specials like the Groovenians and Lewis Lectures that should've been on some other block instead of AS; etc. etc. etc.).

I agree and I think your point of showing it simultaneously on both blocks is a good idea.

Originally posted by Anthony


Who said they'd edit death and war from the Toonami version?



Livingfruitvirus complied lists of how badly the show was edited when the Toonami version of it aired. They literally removed the death and war from the show, and that is just what will happen if Zeta Gundam airs on Toonami.
It's almost like editing "Saving Private Ryan" to TV-Y7 standards.

[Killtacular]

I don't see how it will hurt AS' reputation if the AS version of Zeta Gundam is uncut while the Toonami version is edited. Other things have hurt AS' reputation far more (TVY7 versions of Outlaw Star, Tenchi, Pilot Candidate, Gundam 0083, and MSG on ASA; Fox Kids episodes of the Ripping Friends on ASC; TVY7 specials like the Groovenians and Lewis Lectures that should've been on some other block instead of AS; etc. etc. etc.).

1. Lewis Lectures was TV-PG.

2. PC and OLS -did- hurt Adult Swim's reputation, but shows like 0083 and MSG fit Adult Swim because of their adult themes. These themes may not be considered AS adult in Japan but they are in America. The only problem was, CN didn't have the time or money to get a new uncut version of these shows. They were stuck. More importantly, they were pressed for time, because they only had a few weeks to gather together content for the Adult Swim block, and they didn't have enough.

3. The Ripping Friends didn't hurt reputation but it did get a few snickers from the peanut gallery. The mainstream audience doesn't really know the difference as far as this show is concerned.

4. Shows airing simultaneously on AS and Toonami hurts more than you can believe. The average, non-internet person will think "But my kids watch that show! Let's see what else is on." And no, the average person doesn't watch a show just for blood and profanity.

That being said, Zeta Gundam is a show about war and death, as I've said before, and it's one of the darkest series of the entire franchise. People dying left and right.

The show should not be on Toonami, and can't be, because of this.

Who said they'd edit death and war from the Toonami version?

I'm guessing the same people that editted death and war from the other Toonami Gundam shows.

If you object to the watering down so much, you don't have to watch it. As an adult you have the option of buying the uncut DVDs or watching the AS airings. Toonami's 6-11 year old target audience can watch the watered down version or, if their parents approve, watch the AS version or the DVDs.

That's not even fair though. I understand the whole "if you don't want to see it cut, buy the DVD" movement, and I've said that to people myself. But that doesn't make it right for a show that should be targetting 18-34s to be needlessly chopped down to play for 6-11s.

It's like saying Viacom should put The Godfather on Nickelodeon.

Like saying they should make a G-rated version of Old School.

It may be "good for business" on a technical standpoint, but that doesn't mean they SHOULD do it, and it doesn't mean they WILL do it.

Bandai: benefits from increased exposure to two distinct demographic groups -- the 6-11 year old Toonami audience and the 18-34 year old AS audience. This means higher DVD sales due to a greater number of people seeing the show, and it means higher toy sales (it would be doubtful that many of those Zeta Gundam toys and model kits would be sold if Zeta Gundam only aired on AS -- the target audience of those things are kids and hardcore fans, and the hardcore fans are few in number and will buy them regardless of where it airs).

CN: benefits by simulataneously strengthening both the AS and the Toonami blocks with a strong show that has the potential to appeal to both demographics. It is doubtful that the viewing audience would be split, since as it is the people watching AS differ from the people watching Toonami. In addition, since it is very doubtful that Bandai would be charging a large amount of money for two versions of the show (since the potential profits for Bandai from two airings are huge), CN would be able to do it at a low cost as well, thus doing an even better job of maximizing profit. The presence of new episodes of a show on a block also serves to increase the ratings of the entire block as a whole, so having new episodes of Zeta Gundam airing concurrently on Toonami and AS would result in increased performance for the entire Toonami and AS blocks (as opposed to just airing more of the same old reruns).

Good idea! Let's also put The Powerpuff Girls on Adult Swim because new episodes would strengthen the block with a strong show that has the potential to appeal to both demographics.

And then we should put new episodes of Hamtaro on Adult Swim too, because that would mean a wider audience of people that can buy DVDs.

Oh joy, everything looks perfect through rose-colored glasses.

Where do you see a reference to a "Midnight Run Giveaway" in that article? I can't find it.

Check the images in the gallery. On the plans for Zeta Gundam, it lists a Midnight Run Giveaway in May.

This obviously ain't happening.

Do you truly believe that Bandai would make an announcement like this without having a deal already signed with CN? You know as well as I do that big companies don't make announcements like this when nothing has been agreed to, since it makes them look stupid and risk alienating people for absolutely no reason. Unless CN makes an announcement that Bandai is wrong, I see no reason to doubt what Bandai has announced, especially since it makes perfect business sense for both Bandai and CN.

I'm saying that Bandai is potentially confused in their report, because they think Saturday night is Adult Swim, which isn't true, and that Gundam is the focus of Saturday night, which also isn't true (Do you see any clips of 0080 in the commercials? No.).

CN has made many changes to March's schedule in the past couple of weeks. Bandai's deal for Zeta Gundam may have been something that was worked out BEFORE these changes took place. Hell, before Adult Swim moved to Weekdays, even. I mean, we all assumed the deal was already made, so how do we know that Bandai isn't reading the agreements originally set in, say, October 2002, back when Adult Swim Weeknights was still a pipedream?

Not to mention that it's not just Bandai making these types of announcements. Remember the Winter 2003 Anime Invasion article which quoted the CN Senior VP of Programming stating that new episodes of YYH will be airing on Adult Swim (even though it was recently announced that YYH will be airing on Toonami)?

Remember how magazines go to press WAY BEFORE the date on the cover, with information that becomes quickly outdated by the time that month actually arrives?

I guess you didn't. Oh well.

The Winter 2003 Anime Invasion magazine was released in early December, if I'm not mistaken, which means its articles were written up in November. A lot of things have changed between November and March. YYH wasn't even going to be on Toonami until they decided just a couple of weeks ago.

So his quote means nothing. NOTHING.

Are you really going to argue that every time someone says something that alludes Toonami/AS synergy that they're either out of the loop (Bandai) or misquoted (Mr. Kalagian)?

In both scenarios, it's a case of having outdated information. CN themselves have released inaccurate outdated information in the past (I remember them releasing a press release the week before Adult Swim moved to weeknights, saying that it was only 2 hours long and didn't have Lupin, oy).

[Mugen]

Originally posted by Matt Wilson


Like saying they should make a G-rated version of Old School.



What is the original rating for Old School?

[Killtacular]

R.

[Mugen]

Originally posted by Matt Wilson
R.

THAT'S PERFECT FOR ADULT SWIM.

[Zapages]

Let's just wait until CN gives their verdict for Zeta Gundam and hope that it goes on AS... But I have very sickening feeling that it might go on SVES....

[Nexus810]

I think Matt is getting a serious Inferiorty Complex (or is it an Insecurity Issue, either way), THe feuds between Matt and Anthony have been rather entertaining and I think Anthony makes good points.

Good idea! Let's also put The Powerpuff Girls on Adult Swim because new episodes would strengthen the block with a strong show that has the potential to appeal to both demographics.

No need to get into childlike Argumentative Fallacies (Ad Hominem there i Believe I could be wrong).. I mean afterall we are all "Adults" (okay maybe not Im 17).

Anyway my comment on that. That is a different issue when using Children's shows that will only appeal to Children and pre-teen(or teenagers -- with some weird adults for the Powerpuff Girls line) (and females). Comparing Powerpuff Girls and Hamtaro to Gundam is like comparing Apples to Oranges. Gundam Appeals to Boys and Men... Children and Adults. Profitabilty could be made from being on 2 times a day. First of all you have younger kids seeing a good show at one time and Older Teens-Young Adults (lets get serious the key demographic is about 16-24 Men... Not 18-34 I dont care what anybody says) at the other time. For all thsoe really weird Nerdy people they watch it twice a day and so on. If the show is successful, which it should be, than you get 2 great ratings at two different times increasing CN's profitability.

Anthony makes a great point with teh Toys and such...Toys are for KIDS! Not Adults. Lets get serious Bandai (or any company, CN included) dosnt want to rely on the Ultra Nerds that they had to depend on the beginning. Anime has become main stream now its time to branch out and find normal people...I mean YYH when it was on Adult Swim (well pre-Toonami announcement) they announced the Toys during hte Day Time. That wasnt for adults that was for kids. Toys youll always see are located in the kids section of stores like Target and im sure the boxes for Gundam and YYH and DBZ all say something like "AGES 6-Adult" or something like that... Hmm "Adult" shows with Toys that are made for 6 year olds...not so adult now.

. Shows airing simultaneously on AS and Toonami hurts more than you can believe. The average, non-internet person will think "But my kids watch that show! Let's see what else is on." And no, the average person doesn't watch a show just for blood and profanity.

The kids thing is just illogical... Who does that. I watch, and have watched, shows my parents watch for many years now they dont stop watching it cause I watch it (These are real adult shows like sitcoms and dramas and such you know NBC type). My dad WHO dosnt love anime, dosnt actively seek out anime to watch, dosnt understnad my interest in it, etc. liked Gundam Wing when it was on Toonami..when I had iton in the family room and he was there he watched it and said he liked it. Its war themes and such appealed to him -- and hes 60 years old. Another thing is hte the Key Demographic is 16-24, and CN's dream demographic is 18-34.... Not many 18-30 year olds have kids as we all would love to thinkt hey do....Too many women and men are going careers firstbefore they establish babies. And those that do have kids dont have 10 year old kids at that young of an age (or else something is wrong in their upbringing (such as safe sex or religious morality issues and the like), so their BABIES wouldnt even know or think to watch those shows.

Another thing is DISNEY makes some of hte most popular movies int he world, most especiallyin the Animated and Family Genras. Adults watch and Love some of the Animated masterpieces of Disney liek Littler Mermaid, Lion King, Beauty and the Beast, etc. ALL rated G.... ADULTS STILL WATCH and LOVE these movies... Just like thier kids do. Adults also watch PG-13 Movies and PG Movies... Like Harry Potter, and so on. On Harry Potter -- the book is written for kids but I have always known more Teenagers/Adults who read and love the books more than I know little kids taht do (and of course in this I also include understand the books fully).

Another point -- People DO seek out movies that have curses, violence, sex etc. Lets get serious about the decadance of our society. SEX SELLS so the saying goes, and so does Guns, Curses, etc. People may not consciously do this but they def do. That is most certainly proven by the inclusion of these thigns into adult TV has grown exponetially over the years.

Well im gonna stop there I think its obvious where this is going. Im not arguing for their combination becuase honestly I dont care, but I found it funny with the argumentative cat fight that was going on. It seems Matt likes to have all the power and when people try to bring up logical points that do make sense that do have some sort of evidencial backing then they are wrong and only Matt is right. It does seem, like Anthony said in another thread, that people think that Matt is some sort of god... He isnt, besides the fact that things he says are predictions and logical assumptions the AS:Fansite still isnt up... wasnt it supposed to be done and ready by now?

[Killtacular]

I have nothing to do with the fansite.

[Nexus810]

sorry then -- i thought you were the one who was supposed to redo it...

My apologies

[Nabuca]

Originally posted by Anthony

Who said they'd edit death and war from the Toonami version?

Have you seen the Toonami versions of Gundam shows (aside from the two or three uncut runs of Gundam Wing on TMR)? CN did everything possible to syphon out anything doing with war or death. Let me put it this way, alot of people got "hurt" or "destroyed". This is why I am hoping Z Gundam airs on AS, the darkest and most serious of the Gundam series doesnt deserve to be dumbed down. Shows like G Gundam, Gundam X and SD Gundam are fine for Toonami but it is not the place for Z Gundam.

[Killtacular]

Anyway my comment on that. That is a different issue when using Children's shows that will only appeal to Children and pre-teen(or teenagers -- with some weird adults for the Powerpuff Girls line) (and females).

Uh, plenty of adults like Powerpuff Girls, especially people in the 18-24 bracket. There's nothing "weird" about it.

Not that that had to do with anything, but I'm annoyed by the whole "PPG is for little girls" shtick that people keep holding onto.

Profitabilty could be made from being on 2 times a day. First of all you have younger kids seeing a good show at one time and Older Teens-Young Adults (lets get serious the key demographic is about 16-24 Men... Not 18-34 I dont care what anybody says) at the other time.

The key demographic is 18-34 because the sponsors will only pay to be on a block that caters to 18-34 year olds.

And that's not how it would play out. It would be younger kids seeing the show on Toonami, and then younger kids watching the show on Adult Swim.

For all thsoe really weird Nerdy people they watch it twice a day and so on. If the show is successful, which it should be, than you get 2 great ratings at two different times increasing CN's profitability.

But Gundam shows haven't done well on Toonami, aside from G Gundam, which I can't say was a success because it performs very poorly on the block.

The fact that Zeta Gundam is a little more dated than even 0083 could prove to be a problem. We may end up with a show that'd get abysmal ratings in the afternoons like Mobile Suit Gundam did.

Gundam 0083, for the record, only got as high as a 1.1.

Anthony makes a great point with teh Toys and such...Toys are for KIDS! Not Adults.

Toys can't be targetted at adults? That's a new one on me. I see plenty of action figures aimed clearly at older teens and adults.

Unless Moltar or Jay & Silent Bob are kids toys. My mistake.

Anime has become main stream now its time to branch out and find normal people...I mean YYH when it was on Adult Swim (well pre-Toonami announcement) they announced the Toys during hte Day Time. That wasnt for adults that was for kids.

JASC did not announce toys until AFTER CN and FUNi agreed to place the show on Toonami. And JASC's license is the RESULT of that move.

Toys youll always see are located in the kids section of stores like Target and im sure the boxes for Gundam and YYH and DBZ all say something like "AGES 6-Adult" or something like that... Hmm "Adult" shows with Toys that are made for 6 year olds...not so adult now.

DBZ and Yu Yu toys are obviously for kids, but the Gundam toys and models have always been pointed at older viewers. Just view those Gundam model commercials.. they always feature older teens and college kids talking about the complexity of their figures (nerd central!! hehe). And I've only seen like.. ONE person under the age of 10 in those commercials.

The kids thing is just illogical... Who does that. I watch, and have watched, shows my parents watch for many years now they dont stop watching it cause I watch it (These are real adult shows like sitcoms and dramas and such you know NBC type).

But those shows aren't MARKETTED or EDITTED for kids. They're the real deal. Obviously your parents would have no problem watching it.

But if a guy in his twenties sees Zeta on Toonami in its altered state, he likely WILL choose to ignore it wherever else it airs.

My dad WHO dosnt love anime, dosnt actively seek out anime to watch, dosnt understnad my interest in it, etc. liked Gundam Wing when it was on Toonami..when I had iton in the family room and he was there he watched it and said he liked it. Its war themes and such appealed to him -- and hes 60 years old.

Your dad is a great guy. But to me Gundam Wing seems more about love and angst on the battlefield, than the battlefield itself.

Another thing is hte the Key Demographic is 16-24, and CN's dream demographic is 18-34....

The key demographic is 18-34. That is where AS gets their sponsors. If the sponsors knew that CN was trying to plug in material that is considered for kids at other time slots, or just in general, they may choose not to sponsor.

The only reason Adult Swim Action got sponsors when it began was because the entire weekend was set for those 18-34 ads. If Adult Swim Action was the only form of Adult Swim that existed, the whole thing would have sank really fast. Noone would have chosen to support them other than..well.. kid and teen sponsors.

Not many 18-30 year olds have kids as we all would love to think they do.... Too many women and men are going careers first before they establish babies.

Maybe not where you live, but I know tons of people in their late twenties with a child, or more. And I live in a small town, not a big city or anything.

And I can only imagine how many teen pregnancies there are these days, oy.

And those that do have kids dont have 10 year old kids at that young of an age (or else something is wrong in their upbringing (such as safe sex or religious morality issues and the like), so their BABIES wouldnt even know or think to watch those shows.

Well, you do have a point there, but I know someone who's 28 and has a 6 year old kid, the age at which Toonami first begins to advertise for.

If I had a young kid who watched TV, I'd sure as hell watch it with him during the daytime, but if they offered the same programming at night when he's asleep, I (and I'm acting through the eyes of a regular shmoe) would not consciously tune in.

Another thing is DISNEY makes some of hte most popular movies int he world, most especiallyin the Animated and Family Genras. Adults watch and Love some of the Animated masterpieces of Disney liek Littler Mermaid, Lion King, Beauty and the Beast, etc. ALL rated G.... ADULTS STILL WATCH and LOVE these movies... Just like thier kids do.

What does this have to do with anything? Yeah, adults enjoy G-rated cartoons, but not as much as they used to. Blame it on poorly-written movies or the declining number of them, but parents don't really seem to care about animated movies these days. People between 18-34 seem to only want films like Shrek now. Such a sad state the world is in, that people would want more of that crap.

And to be honest, I don't know many people that watch G-rated animated films by themselves that DON'T come to Toon Zone or some other internet website. The majority of people I know prefer only to watch it when their kids are watching. That's especially true of my 21-year old brother. He doesn't hate kids movies, but he's not gonna watch one unless my little sister is watching one. And he does it to humor her.

Another point -- People DO seek out movies that have curses, violence, sex etc. Lets get serious about the decadance of our society. SEX SELLS so the saying goes, and so does Guns, Curses, etc. People may not consciously do this but they def do. That is most certainly proven by the inclusion of these thigns into adult TV has grown exponetially over the years.

Do you think that people tune in to 24 for the violence or the gripping story? If shows like The Shield and 24 only had violence, do you really think they'd be the highest-rated shows on TV? Or getting Emmys, for that matter?

Contrary to popular believe, people don't just watch a movie because it has violence. They watch movies with GOOD plot or FUNNY people. I think the only real counterexample of this are Jackie Chan movies, but I know that people definitely go to Shanghai Knights because of the chemistry between Owen Wilson and Jackie Chan, not just because it has kung-fu.

And I haven't seen a high-grossing Arnold Schwartzenagger film in years. Terminator 3 may end up being the only one.

Adults may have plenty of testosterone to satisfy, but they're looking for depth, not brainless fluff.

[Anthony]

1. Lewis Lectures was TV-PG.

So were episodes of Pilot Candidate, your point?

4. Shows airing simultaneously on AS and Toonami hurts more than you can believe. The average, non-internet person will think "But my kids watch that show! Let's see what else is on." And no, the average person doesn't watch a show just for blood and profanity.

You're making two assumptions:

1) That most of Adult Swim's viewers are "average adults" with kids, established careers, etc. and that these are the type of adults Cartoon Network is targeting. Based on the type of ads airing on Adult Swim as well as the way Adult Swim markets itself, I don't think it's a stretch to say that Adult Swim is going after younger, college age adults.

2) That people don't watch shows for blood, profanity, and sex. If that was the case most of the highest rated shows on TV wouldn't be so highly rated; all those plotless mindless action and sex-filled movies wouldn't be top grossers at the box office; people wouldn't be making a big deal about T&A on InuYasha, etc. I don't know what you've been watching, but the average 18-34 year old male (the target audience of these sex/violence filled movies/TV shows/etc, as well as the target audience of Adult Swim) clearly likes this stuff or else it wouldn't be made and it wouldn't be so successful.

But that doesn't make it right for a show that should be targetting 18-34s to be needlessly chopped down to play for 6-11s.

I doubt Bandai or CN would say it's "needless" if it results in higher profits for both of them. Bandai and CN aren't there to deliver a quality product, they're there to make money. Regardless of whether Zeta Gundam airs on Toonami or it's clear that it'll be airing either slightly edited or uncut on Adult Swim. If you care THAT much about Zeta Gundam airing on Toonami and being "needlessly chopped down to play for 6-11s" you can feel free to express your rights as a consumer by not watching the Toonami version, not watching either version, not buying Zeta Gundam merchandise, writing letters, etc.

Of course, you might want to remember that higher profits for Bandai from that "needlessly chopped down to play for 6-11s" version of Zeta Gundam would serve as an incentive for Bandai to bring even more anime to America and Cartoon Network.

It's like saying Viacom should put The Godfather on Nickelodeon.

Like saying they should make a G-rated version of Old School.

It may be "good for business" on a technical standpoint, but that doesn't mean they SHOULD do it, and it doesn't mean they WILL do it.

I hate to break it to you but they've already done these things. There IS a G-rated version of Old School being produced: the version that will air on network television in a few years that will be sanitized for G-rated viewing, with any profanity/nudity/questionable content/etc. cut out so that NBC or FOX or whoever can air it at 7PM or 8PM on a Sunday night during sweeps. Then once it hits basic cable that version will be cut down even more so that even light instances of profanity and questionable content that got past the broadcast networks will be edited out by the TNT or TBS or Comedy Central censors. And yes, even The Godfather has been sanitized for family viewing, except for the rare instances when someone like TNN airs it "uncut" (although even then the profanity and nudity get blurred out). This type of marketing towards a general audience after the initial product has been released is nothing new, in fact anime companies do it every time they release an edited version of a show when uncut DVDs are available.

Many companies take things one step further and spinoff kid versions of adult products. Take the Stargate franchise, for example. The movie targeted teens and adults, Stargate SG-1 targeted 18-34 year olds (releasing an uncut version on Showtime and then releasing an edited version in syndication to appeal to a general audience), and the cartoon spinoff Stargate Infinity targets children. It's also not uncommon to produce different versions of the same series to appeal to different demographic groups -- just look at the first season of YYH in which FUNi released three different versions of the show, each targeting a different demographic group, with the hope of raising sales.

Good idea! Let's also put The Powerpuff Girls on Adult Swim because new episodes would strengthen the block with a strong show that has the potential to appeal to both demographics.

And then we should put new episodes of Hamtaro on Adult Swim too, because that would mean a wider audience of people that can buy DVDs.

Oh joy, everything looks perfect through rose-colored glasses.

No offense but your examples are ludicrous. PPG, although having SOME adult viewers, is still a kids show. Like other kids shows, such as Power Rangers and Invader Zim, it has attracted a cult following among adults but this adult following is NOT the target audience, and the vast majority of adult viewers if shown an episode will think it's kid stuff. Now, if shows like PPG or Invader Zim or whatever were to be changed (like the second season of the ripping friends) so that new episodes contained lots of profanity, graphic violence, nudity, etc. THEN those episodes might fit in on Adult Swim as long as the ads made it crystal clear that the Adult Swim version is not the same as the kiddie version.

Your Hamtaro example makes even less sense. Unlike shows like PPG, shows like Hamtaro don't even have a cult following of 18-34 year old viewers that would even justify airing the episodes on Adult Swim or any other adult-oriented block.

Shows like Gundam have the ability to simultaneously appeal to multiple demographic groups, especially if objectionable content is removed. Just look at Gundam Wing and 08th MS Team: easily appeal to both kids and adults (in fact those two shows are probably the only non-DBZ/Pokemon/Yu-Gi-Oh animes where the Toonami versions are even more prevalent on Kazaa than the uncut subbed versions). In this aspect Gundam is very similar to network shows like Buffy: adult themes, but attract a large kid/teen audience in addition to adults (Buffy is yet another example of a teen/adult franchise targeting kid viewers: a kid-targeted Buffy cartoon was being made for Fox Kids, and was only scrapped after Fox Kids went under).

CN has made many changes to March's schedule in the past couple of weeks. Bandai's deal for Zeta Gundam may have been something that was worked out BEFORE these changes took place. Hell, before Adult Swim moved to Weekdays, even. I mean, we all assumed the deal was already made, so how do we know that Bandai isn't reading the agreements originally set in, say, October 2002, back when Adult Swim Weeknights was still a pipedream?

And of course the people at Bandai are incompetent buffoons who would sign a deal in October 2002 and then announce it in February 2003 and NEVER communicate with ANYONE at Cartoon Network during that timespan. Yeah, suuuure.

[Anthony]

Do you think that people tune in to 24 for the violence or the gripping story? If shows like The Shield and 24 only had violence, do you really think they'd be the highest-rated shows on TV? Or getting Emmys, for that matter?

Yeah, and Baywatch was the most viewed TV show in the world because of the top notch story and superb acting.

Oh, and Jackass: The Movie and Kangaroo Jack opened at #1 in the box office because of their great analysis of the human condition and gripping social commentary.

[Killtacular]

If that was the case most of the highest rated shows on TV wouldn't be so highly rated; all those plotless mindless action and sex-filled movies wouldn't be top grossers at the box office; people wouldn't be making a big deal about T&A on InuYasha, etc. I don't know what you've been watching, but the average 18-34 year old male (the target audience of these sex/violence filled movies/TV shows/etc, as well as the target audience of Adult Swim) clearly likes this stuff or else it wouldn't be made and it wouldn't be so successful.

Can you list what shows you're talking about? The shows that get high ratings on TV have more than just violence and blood. The only show I can think of that doesn't have much depth to it is Boston Public or Crank Yankers.

And the movies that usually gross big at the box office are films with critical acclaim. It's actually pretty rare for hugely-panned brainless flicks to score big. I think of them (like Kangeroo Jack) as outliers rather than the average.

Of course, you might want to remember that higher profits for Bandai from that "needlessly chopped down to play for 6-11s" version of Zeta Gundam would serve as an incentive for Bandai to bring even more anime to America and Cartoon Network.

I don't think Bandai has ever had any doubts about bringing anime to Cartoon Network. If they provide it, Cartoon Network will take.

I hate to break it to you but they've already done these things. There IS a G-rated version of Old School being produced: the version that will air on network television in a few years that will be sanitized for G-rated viewing, with any profanity/nudity/questionable content/etc. cut out so that NBC or FOX or whoever can air it at 7PM or 8PM on a Sunday night during sweeps.

R-rated comedy movies generally don't air in primetime except for special occasions.

Old School is the type of movie that will go to basic cable, like Comedy Central. And Comedy Central edits their movies down to PG-13, not G.

Besides the fact, Old School is about college, and nearly the entire movie revolves around drinking and general horniness. It wouldn't be accessible to other ages regardless.

Many companies take things one step further and spinoff kid versions of adult products. Take the Stargate franchise, for example. The movie targeted teens and adults, Stargate SG-1 targeted 18-34 year olds (releasing an uncut version on Showtime and then releasing an edited version in syndication to appeal to a general audience), and the cartoon spinoff Stargate Infinity targets children. It's also not uncommon to produce different versions of the same series to appeal to different demographic groups -- just look at the first season of YYH in which FUNi released three different versions of the show, each targeting a different demographic group, with the hope of raising sales.

Hold on.

With YYH, the three different versions are still the same show.

With Stargate and Stargate Infinity, the two are entirely different shows, with different preferences, different characters, different everything.

If you want to be technical, there IS a kid spin off of Gundam. It's called Superior Defender, and it's going to be on Toonami.

[Killtacular]

Yeah, and Baywatch was the most viewed TV show in the world because of the top notch story and superb acting.

But it wasn't the most viewed TV show in the world. It suffered low ratings and switched networks, where it then suffered from even WORSE ratings and got cancelled.

Oh, and Jackass: The Movie and Kangaroo Jack opened at #1 in the box office because of their great analysis of the human condition and gripping social commentary.

As I said, I consider Kangaroo Jack an outlier, and kids think the kangaroo is cute.

Jackass: The Movie may not be deep, but it makes up for it in humor. Yeah, it's just a bunch of guys getting hurt, but it's in funny, creative ways that other people wouldn't think of. People watch Jackass much like they watch Chris Farley movies.. because of the way these slackers get punished for doing retarded things, it's not embarassing to laugh at their pain.

So I would consider it slightly less shallow than the average college-kid-aimed comedy flick. Cause there ARE quite a few of those. Biosphere...uuugghh. Oh yeah, and Old School. lol.

In this aspect Gundam is very similar to network shows like Buffy: adult themes, but attract a large kid/teen audience in addition to adults (Buffy is yet another example of a teen/adult franchise targeting kid viewers: a kid-targeted Buffy cartoon was being made for Fox Kids, and was only scrapped after Fox Kids went under).

Yeah, but Toonami takes all those adult themes away. That's why kids like it, cause it's just giant robots smashing each other. They don't know the difference. You could air 0080 one day and 8th MS Team the next day and 6-10 year olds wouldn't really be able to tell the difference.

[Anthony]

But Gundam shows haven't done well on Toonami, aside from G Gundam, which I can't say was a success because it performs very poorly on the block.

The fact that Zeta Gundam is a little more dated than even 0083 could prove to be a problem. We may end up with a show that'd get abysmal ratings in the afternoons like Mobile Suit Gundam did.

Gundam 0083, for the record, only got as high as a 1.1.

You have to remember that ratings aren't the only factor: you must also factor in costs. A show that the network got to air for free that got a 0.8 rating can be more successful than a show with a 1.1 rating that the network had to pay a $100,000 license fee for. That's why reality shows are so prevalent despite low ratings -- that season of The Amazing Race which usually finishes 3rd or 4th in its timeslot probably cost the network less than one episode of Everybody Loves Raymond and is therefore very profitable for the network. If CN got the edited version of Zeta Gundam for a bargain basement price or for free from Bandai, CN would profit even if it got bad ratings (and if it's ratings were truly abysmal CN would lose absolutely nothing by yanking it since they paid nothing or next to nothing to air it on Toonami).

You also say "Gundam 0083 only got a 1.1" without putting that 1.1 rating in context. When it comes to ratings, the demographics matter far more than total household ratings. Although Gundam 0083 only got as high as 1.1 in total household ratings, it routinely got a 0.8 rating in the 18-34 year old demographic (the same as YuYu Hakusho, which was airing an hour earlier). Also, the ratings for 0083 went up over time, as opposed to declining over time which is usually the case.

But it wasn't the most viewed TV show in the world.

Most viewed show in the USA, no (although it was #1 in syndication until Xena came along). Most viewed show in the world, yes -- a huge chunk of its profits came from international syndication.

It suffered low ratings and switched networks,

It was cancelled on NBC, back when it had a plot. It then went on to syndication, dropped the plot and went all T&A and ratings soared until the last couple of seasons.

where it then suffered from even WORSE ratings and got cancelled.

That happened towards the eighth or so season, after Pamela Anderson and Yasmine Bleath and all the other hotties left, which was also after the failed spinoff and after copycats such as Pacific Blue became widespread.

Can you list what shows you're talking about? The shows that get high ratings on TV have more than just violence and blood. The only show I can think of that doesn't have much depth to it is Boston Public or Crank Yankers.

A TV show's depth is something very subjective, but I'll give it a try. From last week's top 20 network shows:

Fear Factor
Bachelorette
Joe Millionaire
Friends
Will & Grace
American Idol

Go outside of the top 20 network shows and include cable and syndication (I'd include just about every first-run syndicated drama this season on the lack of depth list) and the list expands exponentially.

And the movies that usually gross big at the box office are films with critical acclaim. It's actually pretty rare for hugely-panned brainless flicks to score big. I think of them (like Kangeroo Jack) as outliers rather than the average.

This year has been rather skewed because of so many huge blockbusters coming out that stayed in the #1 spot for many weeks (Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, etc.) but here are some recent examples of brainless #1s:

Swimfan
Kangaroo Jack
Jackass
Santa Clause 2
Maid in Manhattan

You also might want to take into account quality movies that flop at the box office when trying to use the box office to judge quality.

I don't think Bandai has ever had any doubts about bringing anime to Cartoon Network. If they provide it, Cartoon Network will take.

True, but higher profits results in more anime to provide Cartoon Network, since Bandai will use the profits to acquire more anime than they currently do.

R-rated comedy movies generally don't air in primetime except for special occasions.

Old School is the type of movie that will go to basic cable, like Comedy Central.

Those type of movies skip network TV entirely only if they truly flop at the box office. If the movie does well it'll end up on network TV (like American Pie, There's Something About Mary, etc.) at some point (even if it gets a basic cable premiere first).

Old School is the type of movie that will go to basic cable, like Comedy Central. And Comedy Central edits their movies down to PG-13, not G.

When was the last time you heard the F-word or saw some boobies in a Comedy Central movie? And yes, a movie can be rated PG-13 if it has some non-sexual nudity and one instance of the F-word.

Hold on.

With YYH, the three different versions are still the same show.

With Stargate and Stargate Infinity, the two are entirely different shows, with different preferences, different characters, different everything.

If you want to be technical, there IS a kid spin off of Gundam. It's called Superior Defender, and it's going to be on Toonami.

The point I'm making is that "adult" shows and franchises have been kiddified, either by editing an existing show or by creating a spinoff show that appeals to the kid demographic. The plot of Stargate Infinity might be different from Stargate the movie or Stargate SG1 but it still uses the same premise (using the Stargate to travel to distant worlds) and even has Stargate in the title, clearly linking it to Stargate SG1. Clearly the makers of the show meant to benefit from the Stargate connection (otherwise they would've made an entirely new show instead of making the connection to Stargate SG1 by putting Stargate in the title and using the same technology etc.).

Yeah, but Toonami takes all those adult themes away. That's why kids like it, cause it's just giant robots smashing each other. They don't know the difference. You could air 0080 one day and 8th MS Team the next day and 6-10 year olds wouldn't really be able to tell the difference.

Adult themes in shows like Buffy go over the heads of 6-10 year olds and young teens. A young teen may watch Buffy because "Sarah Michelle Gellar is hot" or because the show has a lot of action or because it has a supernatural twist, but will not be likely to follow the plot or get all the references that are intended for the target audience of teens and adults: just like a kid watching Gundam Wing will watch it for the big robot fights and the big explosions and not understand the plot. By eliminating the adult themes from a day airing, Bandai makes the show more accessible to this demographic and makes the show less objectionable to parents while still reeping the benefits of the adults watching the show for its adult themes at night.

[NewLib]

Anthony, your last paragraph disturbed me. If it was brought to Toonami it would be all about big robot fights and not about the real story. Thus the original purpose was lost and really it is no better than any bland robot smashing show. Z has a great plot, it is the highlight of the show. To kill the plot makes it just mindless garble. G-Gundam could do it, because it was all about big robots fighting. Z Gundam is not.

[Killtacular]

You have to remember that ratings aren't the only factor: you must also factor in costs. A show that the network got to air for free that got a 0.8 rating can be more successful than a show with a 1.1 rating that the network had to pay a $100,000 license fee for. If CN got the edited version of Zeta Gundam for a bargain basement price or for free from Bandai, CN would profit even if it got bad ratings (and if it's ratings were truly abysmal CN would lose absolutely nothing by yanking it since they paid nothing or next to nothing to air it on Toonami).

Yeah, but that's assuming CN got the editted version of Zeta Gundam for free or cheap. Not every company works that way.

Point taken, though.

You also say "Gundam 0083 only got a 1.1" without putting that 1.1 rating in context. When it comes to ratings, the demographics matter far more than total household ratings. Although Gundam 0083 only got as high as 1.1 in total household ratings, it routinely got a 0.8 rating in the 18-34 year old demographic (the same as YuYu Hakusho, which was airing an hour earlier). Also, the ratings for 0083 went up over time, as opposed to declining over time which is usually the case.

It got an 0.5 from adults 18-34. It had a peak and then began to fizzle out, which is why they put 0080 in its place.

Fear Factor

Sorta agree, sorta disagree. I think it's somewhat interesting to see what people will do for cash, but it has gotten very formulaic.

Bachelorette

This I agree with, though I had no idea it was in the top 20.

Joe Millionaire

Disagree entirely. People watched this show because it was funny to see how superficial and money-loving the initial twenty women were. And then by the end of the show, the constant high tension from the ladies and Evan trying to keep his secret was quite engaging.

Definitely more to the show than FOX initially promised.

Friends
Will & Grace

Disagree here too, because these shows don't really try to target the lowest common denominator. They're just rather generic sitcoms, with plenty of character depth. I will agree that the stories have all been done before though.

American Idol

Last half of the show, sure. But the first half of the show's run is hilarious.

Santa Clause 2

My friend who saw the movie said it was just as good a film as the first one, and still entertaining. I haven't seen it myself, and I can imagine that you probably didn't either. I won't jump to that conclusion, though.

Maid in Manhattan

Eh, just because it's a chick flick doesn't mean it's brainless.

Those type of movies skip network TV entirely only if they truly flop at the box office. If the movie does well it'll end up on network TV (like American Pie, There's Something About Mary, etc.) at some point (even if it gets a basic cable premiere first).

Well, I'm fairly sure Old School will be a flop. Heh. I don't see Old School airing on broadcast television, sorry.

The point I'm making is that "adult" shows and franchises have been kiddified, either by editing an existing show or by creating a spinoff show that appeals to the kid demographic.

Again, that doesn't make it right, just because someone DID it. Even though it HAPPENS, shows for adults SHOULDN'T be tampered with just to be able to be safe for kids. I would kill myself if they even tried to put Cowboy Bebop on Toonami, heh. This is for series in general though, not necessarily Gundam.

And I know that they make kid spinoffs. And I wouldn't mind it if they kept the kid spinoffs on one side and the original stuff on the other side. Keep shows like SD Gundam on Toonami and Zeta on Adult Swim.

The plot of Stargate Infinity might be different from Stargate the movie or Stargate SG1 but it still uses the same premise (using the Stargate to travel to distant worlds) and even has Stargate in the title, clearly linking it to Stargate SG1. Clearly the makers of the show meant to benefit from the Stargate connection (otherwise they would've made an entirely new show instead of making the connection to Stargate SG1 by putting Stargate in the title and using the same technology etc.).

Of course. But I'm not sure where you're going with this. It's still not the same thing as the original movie. It's a completely new thing that happens to be set in the Stargate universe.

It's much like Transformers Armada. It's in the Transformers universe, but it definitely ain't just a 'variation' of the TF formula. It's more of a 'bastardization'.

[Anthony]

It got an 0.5 from adults 18-34. It had a peak and then began to fizzle out, which is why they put 0080 in its place.

ToonZone news articles seem to be rather contradictory on this issue, with these early articles saying it was averaging 0.5 for 18-34 yr olds:

http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27799
http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33267

But then this article cites a CN press release saying that the average was 0.8s for 18-34 yr olds for the block:

http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44594

Then this article which comes out two months later brings the average down to 0.5 again:

http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52393

Then up to 0.6

http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53443

With nothing else mentioning specific numbers since then. I take it that the month 0083's 18-34 yr old rating was a 0.8 (matching YYH) was just a one time only thing and the other months it performed below the block's average?

Again, that doesn't make it right, just because someone DID it. Even though it HAPPENS, shows for adults SHOULDN'T be tampered with just to be able to be safe for kids.

I completely agree. I think Zeta Gundam would be a different case though since the adult version would still be airing at a later time and would be available on DVD. It's not like the only version available will be the watered down kiddie version. If airing the show on both blocks would result in higher ratings for CN and increased toy/DVD sales for Bandai I don't see what the downside would be.

I would kill myself if they even tried to put Cowboy Bebop on Toonami, heh. This is for series in general though, not necessarily Gundam.

It's certainly not something that would work for all shows. I highly doubt they'd even think of doing something like that to a show like Bebop because 1) there is no large line of Bebop toys for kids that need to be sold 2) unlike Gundam and YYH there has been no attempt to market Bebop to the Toonami demographic and 3) the only parts of Bebop that would interest a 6-11 year old would be the parts that would be cut out to get it on Toonami.

Of course. But I'm not sure where you're going with this. It's still not the same thing as the original movie. It's a completely new thing that happens to be set in the Stargate universe.

I was responding to your statements that airing Zeta Gundam on both blocks would:

1) encourage kids to stay up late and watch Adult Swim
2) ruin Adult Swim's reputation

If we apply that same logic to Stargate Infinity:

1) kids who watch Stargate Infinity will stay up late and watch Stargate SG1 or rent the Stargate movie, neither of which are targeted towards 6-11 year olds
2) Stargate SG1's reputation is ruined because the synergy between SG1 and Infinity implies that there are lots of 6-11 year olds watching SG1, thus cheapening it as an adult show. After all, the point of making Infinity a part of the Stargate universe is to give it a boost by tying it to an established franchise. However to get these benefits from the Stargate franchise, you assume that 6-11 year olds like Stargate and will therefore watch the spinoff because of the Stargate connection.

[Killtacular]

Well, okay. But I still think it's a different scenario. I mean we're talking about two completely different Stargate shows, but the same Zeta Gundam regardless of what version it is.

I think it's common sense that if kids find out a show they watch has more stuff in it at night, they'll tune in at night.

[Anthony]

I think it's common sense that if kids find out a show they watch has more stuff in it at night, they'll tune in at night.

Was that the case with Gundam Wing uncut? Granted it was under different circumstances since the uncut airings were advertised during the daytime airings and it was the Toonami Midnight Run, but I'm curious to see what the ratings were for 6-11 year olds for the midnight airing.

[Killtacular]

I don't know what the ratings were on Gundam Wing Uncut. I didn't even work here at the time.

[JetMaster5]

Originally posted by Matt Wilson
Good idea! Let's also put The Powerpuff Girls on Adult Swim because new episodes would strengthen the block with a strong show that has the potential to appeal to both demographics.

And then we should put new episodes of Hamtaro on Adult Swim too, because that would mean a wider audience of people that can buy DVDs.

Powerpuff Girls....

...Hamtaro.....

....all on Adult Swim......

....that'll be the day I jump off a building.

[Vekou]

I wouldn't mind if Zeta is coming to Toonami, but I'd definitely prefer it on Adult Swim at a reasonable time (Think 11 to 12-ish). This looks like a good sign that it's going to be on Adult Swim.

[Beat]

Both?! This'll be confusing. Or we could start a new trend.

Hey Kids! It's TV-Y7 Sopranos! Edited to children's standards!

[Will Sturnick]

Originally posted by Beatdigga
Both?! This'll be confusing. Or we could start a new trend.

Hey Kids! It's TV-Y7 Sopranos! Edited to children's standards!

Yeah, if that were true then there'd only be like 15 episodes.

[Arxane]

You wanna know how wrong Bandai can be? Go to this link (http://www.bandai-ent.com/products/product_details.cfm?id=53) and tell me what's wrong with it.

[Kaiser0120]

Originally posted by arxane
You wanna know how wrong Bandai can be? Go to this link (http://www.bandai-ent.com/products/product_details.cfm?id=53) and tell me what's wrong with it.

O.O; Did they... just call Jet a CYBORG?

[Sheamon]

No, cyborg can be accurate since he can be one with only part of his body being robotic. Don't confuse it with Android :P

[Beat]

No. They said it was on Toonami.

Anyway, Z Gundam on Adult Swim AND Toonami? I'm for it. Might start a trend.