True Colors Shining

[The Guard]

I have a girl situation. :). No, not a problem (not mine, at least), just a situation. I'm not sure if people want to hear any more of this stuff, so I'm going to wait until at least a couple people say they do before I tell the story as non-dramtically as I can (No, I'm not begging for attention, I just don't want to piss peope off again). I'm not going to dump, and I'm not going to whine, it's just an interesting situation and I'm not quite sure how to handle it. Never having been in this exact situation, I could use some other points of view, especially from the girls here on TZ. It's kind of a long story, kind of unusual, but nothing real special.

[Terminatah]

Originally posted by The Guard
I have a girl situation. :). No, not a problem (not mine, at least), just a situation. I'm not sure if people want to hear any more of this stuff, so I'm going to wait until at least a couple people say they do before I tell the story as non-dramtically as I can (No, I'm not begging for attention, I just don't want to piss peope off again). I'm not going to dump, and I'm not going to whine, it's just an interesting situation and I'm not quite sure how to handle it. Never having been in this exact situation, I could use some other points of view, especially from the girls here on TZ. It's kind of a long story, kind of unusual, but nothing real special. You ain't piss anyone off. Post if you want.

-Terminatah

[Andy Mancini]

Go nuts. All of you sat through my girl prblem, so why not return the favor?

[JohnCrichton]

Go nuts.

[The Guard]

K. I'll post it when I get home. Which has to be soon, because I'm skipping class. I left my poor defenseless beagle outside in the elements. This is a dog who is afraid of snow, let alone the cold.

[Captain Yurika]

You have to post. :p You have peeked my female curiousity.

[The Guard]

Animal lovers will be glad to know that the beagle lives.

Ok, I'll just pick this up wherever I left off. Please ignore the middle-school like tactics that are used in this whole situation. It's kind of amusing, actually.

I've known her for almost four months now. We met when "Dances In Underwear" girl and I were walking around the mall, talking. This girl was nice, but while I was intrigued, I wasn't all that interested, and she had a boyfriend. Shortly afterward, she started talking to me online about her boyfriend, and we talked a lot, and I just sort of became the ear she needed. We saw each other at school a little bit, but we didn't do anything.

She broke up with her boyfriend because he ignored her, and I figured "Ok, I'll ask her out", but she seems like she needs some time. So I gave it a week. And just before the end of that week, I decided I should just go ahead and do it. So I went in to see her at work, but she was busy, so I left, figuring I could do it later. No dice. Some other guy asked her out. But before she could go out with him (she didn't really want to), she met someone else. And the next morning, she was just exstactic. She talked about how happy she was, and how much she liked this guy, and how refreshing it was to find a half-decent one, etc, etc. Which was fine. I was glad for her, if a little discouraged. But that's cool, because I'd concluded long before this that she deserves something like that.

She's had a string of bad relationships. More then most girls, I think. She's had guys leave her for friends, use her to get to friends, use her friends while they're go out with her, and two of them have come out of the closet while dating her. She doesn't have the easiest home life, and she's got personal problems that she deals with. Compared to most people, she's strong. Very, very strong. She's a lot like me in that she hates to burden people with her real problems. She's very reserved for the most part, and kind of quiet. So she deserves something like this.

So she and this guy went out for about two months, and she's just getting happier and happier, which I wasn't sure was possible, but it was great to see, and we were still talking, and things were going great. And then one fateful evening, when the two of them were supposed to go to this dance that she'd been looking forward to forever, she was fiddling with his PC (She claims to be a computer geek, I think she was being nosy) and found porno on his computer. Now, she didn't care at all, which I think is pretty cool of her, but her boyfriend was pissed off because she invaded his privacy, and he told her he didn't want her to go to this dance thing. And he went with his ex instead. So she was really upset. And she thought it was over between them because they had this knock-down-drag out fight and both of them ended up hurting each other.

In my personal opinion, what was said really wasn't that bad, but it shook both of them up. So this guy, who's also had a string of terrible relationships, got scared, didn't want to deal with her insecurities, and cut her off. Wouldn't talk to her much when she called, wouldn't answer her IM's. She wrote him this big long (3 page) letter about how she felt about him, and pretty much begged him to talk to her. He didn't respond. He wouldn't talk to her, and his friends started attacking her with phone calls, emails and IM's. So she was even more upset. I was talking to her one night last week, and she opened up for the first time in a long time. She told me pretty much everything about their relationship, and what she wanted, and how she didn't know what to do, or who to turn to, and then she just lost it. She got all panicky, and I know what was happening, because I've seen it before. It's what happened to me a year and a half ago. And she was like "I can't take this", "I can't take this", "Oh, God it hurts so bad, someone make it stop", which sounds cheesy to some extent, but when you're in that place, you don't care. Because it does hurt bad. And she was scared, because I don't think she'd ever been through those particular emotions before. She's been sad, and depressed, but never DEPRESSED. So I talked to her for about an hour and a half, and told her how to fight it off, and she started to come out of it. And when she did, she was tired, but she felt like talking, so we did. For seven hours. There are now very few surface/personality things I don't know about her. She went to bed, but not before I convinced her to call him in the morning and what to say to him.

So she did, and he told her that he wasn't trying to hurt her, he was just confused, and needed time to think about whether he still wanted to be with her. She was feeling a little better. Couple days later she asks me to go get something to eat after school. Translation: "I need to talk". So we went to a restaurant and talked. She was telling me about this guy's friends, and how there's a couple that more or less tries to control him, and how she thinks that's affecting things. We talked for a while, and then she left and went to some bowling thing that he and his friends were going to be at.

At eight o'clock the next morning she wakes me up with a phone call, and tells me that the guy sitting at the window across the room from us at the restaurant works with her boyfriend, and told him everything we talked about. She then goes on to tell me that her boyfriend and her had a long talk that night, and that he decided he was listening too much to other people, and that he wanted to make it work. So she was happy again.

Three days later, something happened, and she became miserable, and deleted her online journal. She talked to me a few times, and told me about some conversations she had with this guy's friends. And it became clear to me what was going on. This guy had decided that she wasn't worth the trouble, and had another girl (an ex) that he wanted more. So he'd cut her off. Now he wouldn't even talk to her. And his friends were telling her to leave him alone, but of course she couldn't, so it was becoming almost obsessive in their eyes, and I finally tried to talk to her again, and she fell apart again, and was talking about doing stupid things, and I talked to her for a few hours. She came out of it, and calmed down, but she was really angry.

The next few days I didn't talk to her at all, and she blocked this guy and his friends from IM'ing her. They complained, so she unblocked them. She's a smart girl, she truly is, she's just lost. She's never had to handle anything like this. I've offered my aid several times, made it clear to her that hey, I've been there, I can help her out, help her make sense of some of it, show her how to deal with it, that sort of thing. She's refused every time. She claims it's because she thinks I'll end up hating myself if I put effort into helping her and fail. I think she just doesn't believe that anyone can help her feel better. I know I didn't. So I've given her some space for a few days. Talked to her online a little bit, but nothing of any consequence. Today I waited for her after class and walked with her to her next class. And she talked my ear off.

I meanshewasgoinglikethisandnotgivingmeahalfasecondtoevensayhiandshedidthisforaboutthreestraightminuteswithoutevertakingabreath. I called her when I got home, and we talked for al ittle while. She's going to a restaurant with a group of her friends tonight, and going to drive across state lines tomorrow and go skiing. She said she'd call me and we could talk while she was driving there in the car. I'm not sure that's a good idea.

Anyway...

I like her. I like her a lot. As a friend, I do love her, and I want what's best for her, and I want to protect her, like all my friends. I don't know if it could be more. I'm not quite to the "true love" stage yet. :). But I do know that I care about this girl more then I should. She's smart, she's a good person, and she possesses many of the same attributes I do. She's good at reading people, and telling when they're lying, that sort of thing. She's not afraid of me, and she knows pretty much everything there is to know about me.

She hasn't figured out anything yet (I think), although I don't think I'm that good. But mutual friends insist she has no clue. It's not a "If I can't have this girl as my girlfriend, I don't want to live" situation. I'd just like to be a part of her life, and I'd like her to be a part of mine. We'd be good for each other. We're already good for each other. We don't do much together, and we don't even talk all that much, because she has school and work and about 200 other friends, but when we do talk...I don't know. I can tell that we could be really, really good friends if not something else.

I could help her with some of her problems. She could help me with some of mine. There is no taboo subject between us. I know that much. The only thing holding me back from telling her just how I feel and asking her if she'd like to do stuff with me is the fact that she's sensitive. Real sensitive. She hates to hurt people's feelings. She's also still dealing with this thing that just happened, that she doesn't understand, and doesn't know how to fix. I don't know if she even knows about the other girl yet.

My chief concern (the chief concern tends to be the same thing) is piling more stress on her, giving her more to worry about. She knows I'm an intense person. And somewhere in our conversations she got the idea that I can't take rejection of any kind. She worries about people. I don't want her to worry about me and have to deal with her stuff as well.

On the other hand, if I wait to tell her, several things can happen. I'm not worried about this, but there could always not be a tomorrow. She could become even more miserable with no one to help her out. Someone else could pounce (her words) on her. A million things could happen. There are all these moral questions to think about. It's not as simple as "Just ask her out, and what happens, happens". It's rarely that simple. She's a complicated person, and this is a complicated situation. If I was dramatic at all in this message, I apologize. I'm bored. :)

[Weatherman]

Complicated.....yeah....you don't say? :p


See how she's feeling after the ski trip. I know skiing always helps me relax quite a bit, so maybe she'll feel a bit better.

[ZorBrak]

I've learned from losing a girl I was in love with (or so I thought at the time)...sometimes the worst mistakes we can make are the risks we don't take. There are risks in telling her how you feel...but if I were you I wouldn't wait any longer. Take her out one night and tell her. When you think you have found a girl that you are really interested in and share a lot in common with...you shouldn't let that slip away, you could be losing out big in the end....

[The Guard]

Well, she called me at 11:00 from the highway. So we talked for about forty minutes before her cell phone needed recharging. I mentioned that I was going to see DAREDEVIL tomorrow, and she asked if SPIDER-MAN 2 was coming out any time soon. Said she really liked SPIDER-MAN and X-MEN: "The second I finished X-MEN, I wanted to rewind it and watch it again. It was such a cool movie". So maybe, just maybe, I can drag her to my second or third viewing of DAREDEVIL.

[Andy Mancini]

I know that I have no right suggesting this, considering that I too am having a "relationship dilemma", but I say go with it. There is nothing to worry about as long as you approach her in a sincere and honest way. (And judging by this post and others, you seem to have no problem doing that with people.) Basically, I guess I'm saying don't overthink it. The the words will come.

[Failure]

Well, according to the ladder theory, I think you're on the wrong ladder. ;)

All in all, this is one time where I gotta say you shouldn't go after her. And as difficult as it may be, if she makes advances on you, resist. Cuz, whatever that may develop now will mean you're the rebound. Which probably means you're going to end up getting screwed.

I would recommend just staying friends and leaving it at that. As far as relationships go, I think this is just a bad situation for you, and you'd be better off just looking for someone else.

[sKorpia]

Failure's right. It's too soon for her. It took me 6 months to get over my first boyfriend (and our relationship only lasted 4.5 months...and he dumped me the day before Valentine's Day; man, that sucked!). But anyway, if you tell her now, she'll:

1) say yes to avoid hurting your feelings but you'll still be rebound, which is not what you wanna be

OR

2) she could potentially clam up on you all together if she's still too raw from the last relationship, thus meaning you will have to chisel your way back in and that will be long and tedious.

Mind you, these are only 2 of the possibly reactions she could have. But if you want something lasting with this girl, you gotta give her time. It's been what? less than a week? since this all went down and she still needs to process. If she's as much the worrier as you say she is, then you're right not to want to put any more additional pressure on her. That said, when enough time has passed and she seems more okay, you need to step up and tell her. But only after she's recovered for the most part from this. Because guys, it's true. Girls love confident men who can take charge.

Um, why did she unblock his jerk friends when they started complaining about her blocking them? Sounds to me as if they aren't worth the time of day, even if they are sticking up for their boy. Harrassment is harrassment.

Regarding the Ladder Theory, we girls aren't as clear-cut as the two ladders. Wanna know why? Because most of the time, we have 3 ladders. Actually, my roommate and I came up with 3 categories. The first comprises of those guys who are completely out of our league, "drool but can't touch". This is a very small portion of the people that we actually know . . . or know of. The third category consists of those guys with whom you never even consider a relationship. It's the second biggest category. The second category is made up of your guy friends, with whom you've considered doing something (and we always consider doing something, at least at the beginning of the relationship). This is the biggest category and it's in this category that the 2 ladders fall. So it sounds exactly like the 2 ladders theory, right? Well, actually, it would be . . . if we were consciously aware of our ladder parameters. Cuz they change over time and our brains kindly fail to inform us of the change. So in theory, it is possible for a guy in the 3rd category to all of a sudden become 2nd category material simply because the girl herself has changed the definition of the category. The same is true of 1st-to-2nd category crossovers, though that usually requires contact with the hot guy and subsequent humanization of him. But possible. And 2nd category guys can be moved out of that category as well, as evidenced by my ex-boyfriend who has been demoted to category 3 because I can't figure for the life of me what attracted me to him in the first place. I think I was lonely and it was early freshman year in college.

Anyway, I don't know if this helped you at all, Guard. I hope it did.

[The Guard]

1) say yes to avoid hurting your feelings but you'll still be rebound, which is not what you wanna be

OR

2) she could potentially clam up on you all together if she's still too raw from the last relationship, thus meaning you will have to chisel your way back in and that will be long and tedious.

I intend to spell pretty much everything out and point out that I realize that there are several reactions she can have, and that I've thought about them, and still think it's something worth doing.

But if you want something lasting with this girl, you gotta give her time.

I've given it almost four months before I even tried to get to know her. I don't think I can afford to give her too much time. If I wait, and someone else asks her out or something, and the mood seizes her, she'll probably go for it. And then I get to wait another month or two. :)

It's been what? less than a week? since this all went down and she still needs to process. If she's as much the worrier as you say she is, then you're right not to want to put any more additional pressure on her.

You think it would help her if I told her that I know all this, but that I think what I want to tell her will help with some of it?

That said, when enough time has passed and she seems more okay, you need to step up and tell her.

She really seems ok, now. As ok as she's going to be for a long while if no one steps up and tells her certain things, shows her certain things.

Um, why did she unblock his jerk friends when they started complaining about her blocking them?

No clue. She's told the guy she wouldn't go back out with him again, and that she has little interest in any kind of a relationship, so I don't know why she cares anymore.

Anyway, I don't know if this helped you at all, Guard. I hope it did.

A little bit, yes.

[The Guard]

Gonna tell her. Going to call her or go in to see her at work and tell her I need to talk to her tonight and tell her. Feels like the right thing to do, and now the situation warrants it. Wish me luck.

[Patrick Bateman]

Good luck!

[The Guard]

She was busy. And didn't want to take the not-so-subtle hints that I needed to know what was going on in her life so I could make some tough decisions. So I did the stupidest thing possible. I wrote her a letter (which might not have been so stupid because she likes letters as a method of communication). Not sure if she'll like this one, but I feel a lot better now. So I told her. I got it out. And now I get to wait.

[ZorBrak]

I Hope everything works out Gaurd!

[The Guard]

So I wrote her the letter and she didn't write back yet, and I was getting a little upset last night, because she usually checks her mail all the time, so I was kind of thinking she wasn't going to respond, and then she IM's me this morning, and she sounds kind of...upbeat, I guess. Possibly because she was eating cake for breakfast. She said she hadn't read it yet, and that she was going to print it out and read it in class. Ahh, high school tactics. :)

[The Guard]

She caught me in the hall and did that weird hand thing again. I hate being touched. She read it in class, I guess, which is impressive because it's five pages long, and that professor doesn't like people not paying attention. She immed me tonight saying that she'd read it, and that she didn't know what to say right now, which I didn't expect her to. Five pages is a lot to absorb. But she immed me, so she's not scared, or upset, or angry. Those are good things.

[ThorMX624]

Good, good... good. Hope it all works out!

[The Guard]

I don't want you to like me like that.

I don't understand people anymore. I need a hug.

[Weatherman]

......oro? :confused:



I don't get it either. *gives Guard a hug*

[ZorBrak]

Wow, that's a harsh way to word a rejection...but *sigh* yep, I understand how you're feeling. Rejection is frustrating as hell, I've been there waaay too many damn times now...more than anyone ever should have to, especially in a span of only 3 frelling years (I got shot down 11 times in a ROW, yes I've kept count because it was getting frelling ridiculous).
Prior to that..I did have one nice but kind of rocky relationship, but it still doesn't make a bit of since to me why I've been rejected so many f'ing times recently. To not be humble for a second...I think I'm cool, nicer and more thoughtful than most guys, I think I look pretty good too, AND I can cook :p...so why then have I failed so many times? I have no f'ing clue. But again, I've been where you are. I was just there only a matter of days ago in fact....but then...something happened at school last Friday that has given me new hope. I guess I can just say that you should hang in there and to not give up on relationships, even though things seem bleak sometime. I haven't had much luck either but I'm not going to change because of it...there's always hope. Things didn't look bad for me for long before they looked as good as they do now.

[sKorpia]

Dude, that sucks. It sounds like you're permenantly in the "friends" category and honestly, there's really nothing you can do about it. I know what the movies say, that if you stick it out, she'll wake up one day and see you for what you're worth, but in this world, it won't happen until you guys have lost touch or you become unavailable to her.

It still sucks though.

[ZorBrak]

SCREW WHAT I SAID ABOVE. My "best friend" just stole my date to the prom. I'm sick of people and I'm sick of trying with girls. So now I guess my "friend" 's true colors are shining as well. I don't understand people anymore either. Whatever, screw all of it to hell, I'm going to bed.

[The Guard]

Great quote. But don't give up on people. We all screw up. We all hurt each other. That's just how things are. It's nothing personal. We're all raised to believe in the dog-eat-dog theories. Good things do come along. I'm not sure when. But they will.

[Psilon]

Originally posted by ZorBrak
SCREW WHAT I SAID ABOVE. My "best friend" just stole my date to the prom. I'm sick of people and I'm sick of trying with girls. So now I guess my "friend" 's true colors are shining as well. I don't understand people anymore either. Whatever, screw all of it to hell, I'm going to bed.

Really man, who gives a damn...a best friend is harder to come by than girls, you better find out everything and not risk the bad effects that can come from quick judgement.

[ZorBrak]

True. A best friend is harder to come by then a girl. But that doesn't change the fact that he's betrayed me deeper than anyone ever has. I was already in a lot of pain from something else that happened before this, and HE KNEW THAT. I had just started to feel better because it looked like I had a real good chance with this girl, HE KNEW THAT...and HE KNEW I was planning to ask Jennifer to the prom today....so he went and asked her for himself behind my back this weekend before I got my chance. I mean the SCUMBAG KNEW I WAS GOING TO ASK HER, I'd told him and he was encouraging me...AND THEN HE DOES THIS. And then acted like it was nothing, what kind of a scumbag does this crap and considers himself my friend?

Do you know what it was like having to overhear her brag about him to her friends in class today? I CANNOT FORGIVE HIM. No matter the fact that we'd been best friends since the 4th grade, he's ruined that entirely. It's not so much the taking the girl, it's that he had NO respect for my feelings or that what he was doing was ridiculously treacherous and indifferent to my feelings. I was already more depressed than I had ever been and just when I started to feel better and be happy again....he did this...knowingly stuck a knife in my back. It tells me something about his true character and what he really values.

And so in the end I am now without a date for the prom and have one less friend. Story of my f'n life, I guess I should be used to all this type of BS by now.

[The Guard]

I don't think this is worth losing a best friend over. Not without first airing this out, telling him how you feel. Confronting him, so to speak. Tell him what you told us. If nothing happens, he's not a worthless human being. We all make mistakes. But he's one person you should trust less. And make earn that trust back. Big time. Aren't people wonderful?

[The Guard]

Back on topic, I did a romance scene with her tonight at theatre auditions. It didn't go real well, but that's ok. Before the audition she felt the need to hug me, and during auditions she kept touching me for some odd reason (I'm The Hulk when people touch me. I hate it.) After the audition, I asked her if she wanted to go out to lunch in the next two days, and she responded with a fairly enthusiastic "Sure!". I told her to call me. Then she talked to me for about a half hour before she went to bed. We talked about our auditions and such.

[murmur]

Originally posted by The Guard
I don't want you to like me like that.

I don't understand people anymore. I need a hug. [/B]Okay. [Hug] :)

Now, I'm going to say something that may at first sound cruel, but I assure you it's a good thing:

You never had a chance.

I say this because:

a) You're probably smarting from all sorts of rejection issues. None of that makes any difference. You could have the body of Brad Pitt and the romantic wit of Cyrano de Bergerac and she'd have said the same thing.

b) It's the truth. And she means it literally. To her, sexual feelings from men have meant chaos and hurt feelings for her. You have been one of the only, if not the one and only, reliable man in her life. As soon as you open the door to sexual attraction, she fears that she will lose that.

I don't think I'd be going out on a limb to guess that she has serious childhood issues. She is most likely going to choose men that are bad for her. Or that are free from any chance of getting too close to her (that would explain the guys that came out of the closet too). Or that target her because her vulnerability is probably rather obvious. Which brings me to this conclusion:

You are too good for her.

I don't say this because she's a bad or undeserving person. In fact, I don't even really believe in people being "good" or "bad" or "undeserving." But deep down, she probably does believe it. And because you are as kind and understanding as you are to her, she will not accept your romantic advances.

I wish I saw this thread earlier, because I pretty much saw this coming, and wish there was a way to steel you for this result. But at least there is no need for regret. The truth is you did the right thing. It was building up and you would have still gotten the rejection later on if you didn't say anything...it would have just been slower and more painful.

I have more to say, but I can't think of it at the moment and I've made a long enough post. Feel free to PM or IM me if you want to hear more. I've been in similar situations before and I'd love to help.

[murmur]

Originally posted by The Guard
Back on topic, I did a romance scene with her tonight at theatre auditions. It didn't go real well, but that's ok. Before the audition she felt the need to hug me, and during auditions she kept touching me for some odd reason (I'm The Hulk when people touch me. I hate it.) After the audition, I asked her if she wanted to go out to lunch in the next two days, and she responded with a fairly enthusiastic "Sure!". I told her to call me. Then she talked to me for about a half hour before she went to bed. We talked about our auditions and such. Maybe I posted too soon. :p I guess anything is possible, although from what you posted, she is just as likely to be eager to reassure you and to keep you as a friend.

And don't be too selfless either. If she does give you an opening, don't live with regret, but then again, don't picture happily ever after either. This girl is not a solid long term prospect.

[The Guard]

the romantic wit of Cyrano de Bergerac and she'd have said the same thing.

The romantic wit of who? It sounds like a drain cleaner.

b) It's the truth. And she means it literally. To her, sexual feelings from men have meant chaos and hurt feelings for her. You have been one of the only, if not the one and only, reliable man in her life. As soon as you open the door to sexual attraction, she fears that she will lose that.

She does seem to have this abnormal fear of hurting people, and getting hurt in return when she hurts them and they lash out. As far as sexual feelings go...no one will believe me, but I really don't have them. I mean, if I stop and concentrate, I can have them about pretty much anyone, but this girl...her body, the physical stuff...while nice...doesn't really attract me all that much. The way she acts, though, the things she does, the person she is...wow. That's why I'd be ok with just being her friend. I never went into this situation wanting her for anything other then that.

[/quote]I don't think I'd be going out on a limb to guess that she has serious childhood issues.[/quote]

Her parents divorced, and she's dyslexic, but not really any serious childhood abuse or anything like that. She is, in effect, an only child, doesn't see the other half of her family much.

She is most likely going to choose men that are bad for her. Or that are free from any chance of getting too close to her (that would explain the guys that came out of the closet too). Or that target her because her vulnerability is probably rather obvious. Which brings me to this conclusion:

[/quote]You are too good for her.[/quote]

I don't think that for a second. I think we could be very good friends. Unlike most girls, I think I could teach her a lot of the things she needs to know to get through life, and maybe help her self-esteem and trust issues a little bit.

[/quote]I don't say this because she's a bad or undeserving person. In fact, I don't even really believe in people being "good" or "bad" or "undeserving." But deep down, she probably does believe it. And because you are as kind and understanding as you are to her, she will not accept your romantic advances.[/quote]

She does have self esteem issues. I haven't made any romantic advances for various reasons. One, I'm not real good at that sort of thing. Two, she doesn't seem interested. And that might be what's got her confused. Because she's never seen people go about this the way I've gone about it. Most of her friends just hang out with her, party, watch movies. The guys that have wanted her in the past seem to come right after me. Me, I do all the little things. I talk to her. I have yet to tell her she's pretty or sexy or any of that stuff. Mostly because I know she knows she is.

Maybe I posted too soon. I guess anything is possible, although from what you posted, she is just as likely to be eager to reassure you and to keep you as a friend.

Eh, I don't think the touching means that much. Although if she was scared of me or didn't want me to be her friend, I doubt she'd be doing it.

[/quote]And don't be too selfless either. If she does give you an opening, don't live with regret, but then again, don't picture happily ever after either. This girl is not a solid long term prospect.[/quote]

I'm not looking for marriage, or even a girlfriend, so much as a friend. Someone who clearly can understand me. Someone I can make sense of the world with. She wants the same things. I think it could happen. I don't know.

[sKorpia]

Originally posted by The Guard
As far as sexual feelings go...no one will believe me, but I really don't have them. I mean, if I stop and concentrate, I can have them about pretty much anyone, but this girl...her body, the physical stuff...while nice...doesn't really attract me all that much. The way she acts, though, the things she does, the person she is...wow. That's why I'd be ok with just being her friend. I never went into this situation wanting her for anything other then that.

I have yet to tell her she's pretty or sexy or any of that stuff. Mostly because I know she knows she is.

I'm not looking for marriage, or even a girlfriend, so much as a friend. Someone who clearly can understand me. Someone I can make sense of the world with. She wants the same things. I think it could happen. I don't know.

Okay, couple of things:

If you never wanted her as anything but a friend, then why ask her to go out on a date or even consider an amorous relationship?

You need to be attracted to whoever you end up marrying. Need. I'll say right now, do NOT misconstrue what I'm saying. Looks should never be the one and only factor in deciding a life-partner but I personally feel that you should be physically as well as mentally attracted to your mate. Screw the rest of the world if they say she's not "hot" but you have to enjoy looking at her and looking at her should turn you on.

Just because we know we're sexy doesn't mean we don't like to hear it occasionally (read: any time we've put any sort of extraordinary effort into our appearance or just out of the blue, maybe twice a month ;) ). This isn't meant for her and I am in no way advocating that you start telling her that she's hot or sexy. In fact, you do that and I guarantee that you'll scare her off from ever being really close long-term friends. But for your eventual long-term girlfriend or wife, tell her that she's sexy and hot and smart and that you will always want her. Don't lie about it, of course. But tell her. You have no idea how much it lifts a girl's spirits and ego when she gets paid a compliment, especially by the guy that she loves.

You say you're not looking for a relationship but your tone indicates that you are. Figure out which one you want. That way, it should help filter out some mixed signals and hopefully allow you to proceed in a clear-headed manner.

BTW, Cyrano de Bergerac is the protagonist of a French play of the same name. He's a skilled figher and an amazing poet with a rather large nose and very quick temper and wit. He falls in love with Roxanne (I forget their relationship, but I think they're cousins). Of course, a dashing, young, and very handsome soldier falls in love with her too but he's a bumbling idiot when it comes to words of love. Cyrano helps this young man woo Roxanne and she of course falls in love with the handsome one. Cyrano never gets the girl and dies by assassination. But he does tell Roxanne that he loves her and has loved her since forever . . . indirectly and right before he dies.

[The Guard]

If you never wanted her as anything but a friend, then why ask her to go out on a date or even consider an amorous relationship?

Because I did want to see if there was anything there. Because it's impossible to get to know anyone when you never see them or talk to them. I don't see much wrong with asking someone to go somewhere with you. I do it to other friends all the time.

You need to be attracted to whoever you end up marrying. Need. I'll say right now, do NOT misconstrue what I'm saying. Looks should never be the one and only factor in deciding a life-partner but I personally feel that you should be physically as well as mentally attracted to your mate. Screw the rest of the world if they say she's not "hot" but you have to enjoy looking at her and looking at her should turn you on.

Obviously you need to be attracted to the person you marry. But again, I'm not looking for marriage. I've never even had a real relationship (ok, I have, but I was never an official bf). I can't begin considering anything long term right now.

You have no idea how much it lifts a girl's spirits and ego when she gets paid a compliment, especially by the guy that she loves.

I paid her a compliment last night, and she said "You're just being partial, or sweet...or something."

And when I pressed her for a reason she'd said that...she said "I don't know...you're just saying things to make me feel better."

You say you're not looking for a relationship but your tone indicates that you are.

In a perfect world, I'd love to find a girl like her. Right now, I just want to get to know her better, see if there could ever be anything there beyond "acquaintances". Of course I'm looking for a relationship. People who never talk to each other and never tell each other about their lives, or do anything with each other cannot be considered close friends, or even friends, unless you've already gotten to know them and they've moved away or something. I want to be her friend. I want to be able to not pretend with her. I want to be able to tell her things, and for her to be able to tell me things, and be able to cheer each other up, etc, etc.

[The Guard]

My God...she kept an appointment. I'm supposed to meet her after school to go somewhere. Neither of us knows where yet. I have a feeling she's going to be a little upset about not making it into the play, but I can handle that.

[sKorpia]

Keep in mind that most of what I said (probably all of it) has nothing to do with this particular girl right now. Until she becomes a very serious long-term prospect, what I'm saying simply doesn't apply. Think of them as more general rules for later on when you do find that special someone. Besides, I said that complimenting her now isn't what you should do though I should have explicitly added that she would take it the wrong way (read: whatever possible way you weren't intending).

There's a fundamental difference in the way guys and girls approach friendships. I believe, and feel free to disprove me please because it'd be interesting to see if such a case existed, that guys will form friendships with girls for the explicit hope of the friendship turning into something more. Girls, on the other hand, have the ability to enter a friendship with nothing more than friendship in mind. In fact, for some girls like me, we never think about a potential relationship with our guy friends until they make a move (subtle or otherwise). Then we overthink things and it gets complicated.

If you want to be her friend, be her friend. Don't let yourself get hung up on whether or not it's going to lead anywhere.

[The Guard]

Things are better. Much better. We ate, talked for a couple hours. I know what I needed to know. She's definitely the person I thought she was. It's so great not to be wrong again. I doubt it will turn into anything romantic, but who cares? She's a good person, got her head on straight, and I understand where she's coming from so much better. It might take a while, but even when she leaves for another campus, I think we're going to be good friends.

I might be going for a long car trip with her on Friday. She's going to look at apartments where she's going to school this fall, and doesn't want to go alone. So I might get to spend a day with her if she decides she wants me to go.

[The Guard]

No long car trip, but I went to lunch with her again this afternoon. There was a balloon artist there, and she was very vulgar with the balloon animals we got from him. She's a fun girl. Anyway, we ate and talked about our childhood and high school friends and friends in general, and I found out that she doesn't seem to have all those good friends I thought she had (she doesn't feel like she has any) that she can talk to, who are always there for her, etc. I know she doesn't like me "like that", but maybe that's a good thing, for both of us. I feel like we've both found something really good. Understanding, I guess.