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The Guard
02-13-2003, 12:39 AM
Not sure whether this belongs here or not, but here's my English essay on Batman and the comparisons to the classic hero quest. Wanted to see what fans would think.

THE DARK KNIGHT

Over the years, the hero quest, or Monomyth, has become recognized as the one central story that all cultures share. With an overall plot that is often similar, the archetypal hero quest contains various elements that make it instantly recognizable. There are three kinds of archetypes that are common in the hero quest: situational, character, and symbol. The Batman mythos are no exception to this rule. The stories that make up the Batman legend are rich in the elements of the classic hero quest, and have been since writer/artist Bob Kane first created them in 1939. Since that time, hundreds of artists and writers have contributed to The Batman's legend, and the character has evolved. It has been passed on, the story often changing, but retaining a few key elements.
As Joseph Campbell, the author of The Hero With 1,000 Faces, points out, a culture's myths are not just stories. They carry our hopes, dreams, and values. If that is true, then what can we say about the stories of our culture that contain similar elements? What do the Batman mythos reveal about our culture, it's values, and ideals?
The core of the Batman legend revolves around the fact that Bruce Wayne watched his parents gunned down by a nameless mugger when he was just a child. That nameless mugger managed to steal, in a series of gunshots, Bruce's parents, his childhood, and much of the rest of his life. This is a common occurrence in the Monomyth. The tragic loss of one or both of a hero's parents. Bruce's need for vengeance was so great, that he vowed, on his parents' memories, to spend the rest of his life warring on all criminals. He was determined to make sure that what had happened to him would never happen again. Born into great wealth (a noble birth), Bruce Wayne decided to use his vast resources to make good on his promise.
Another common occurrence in the hero quest is the call to adventure, and the subsequent training that a hero undergoes. Bruce Wayne was no exception. In fact, the character of Batman may have exceeded any other literary character, as he left Gotham City as a teenager, and traveled the world, in the process learning over 100 styles of combat and meditation. He trained his mind and body to mental and physical perfection. He became a master scientist, and a student of the greatest detectives there were to learn from. He immersed himself in criminal theory and history, and emerged as close to a perfect human being as there would ever be. He was a man on a mission. Like many heroes before him, Bruce Wayne had developed the skills and the means for his quest, but lacked the method. And he searched for it relentlessly for a long time.
Though he would eventually become the hero he set out to be, Wayne was a reluctant hero. This is another common trait of the main character in a Monomyth. Bruce would have preferred to have a life and love over the world that he grew to know. But at the age of 25, he could take no more. He went out into the night looking for trouble and found it. Barely alive and bleeding to death, a delirious Bruce Wayne returned to his manor to wait for his death. As he sat in the study that his father had occupied years before, he begged his parents for the help he needed. For the method to make criminals afraid. He had to be black. Terrible. As if in answer to his prayers, a large bat flew in the window. In the tiny creature, Bruce Wayne saw his future. He would become a bat. The bat that inspired Bruce's crusade may well have been a supernatural messenger, which is another aspect of the hero quest. The figure of a bat represents various things in many cultures. In some cultures, the bat represents the guardian of the night. And in other cultures, it's believed that seeing a bat is seeing a guise of the devil himself. The costume that Bruce Wayne designed to disguise himself and frighten others resembles something evil, even satanic, with it's jagged edges and horns. This eerie, otherwordly look is not common in the hero quest, although the color black is often attributed to troubled heroes. This is the image that Bruce Wayne would use to strike terror into the hearts of criminals as he became The Batman.
The supernatural figure of a bat was also central in Bruce Wayne's "belly of the whale" experience. As a child, running around on the property behind his family's mansion, young Bruce Wayne fell through a hole in the ground and landed below, in the wet darkness. As he continued through the darkness, he came face to face with a bat. It terrified him, but intrigued him at the same time. Many years later, the bat flying through his window would trigger his memory.
The Batman began his quest as a creature of the night, striking from the shadows and always
vanishing before he could be truly identified, like a thief in the darkness. He never hung around to take credit for his actions, preferring instead to remain an urban legend, much like the characters he was inspired by, Robin Hood and Zorro. His resemblance to those characters cannot be denied. Batman has been called The Dark Knight, and for good reason. He is almost the proverbial knight in shining armor. Handsome, daring, a little dangerous, and always arriving just in the nick of time to rescue the innocent.
The characters in Monomyths are often attributed special powers, or magic talismans, weapons, or armor. Batman is no exception. While he is all too human, his Batsuit itself is almost a magical talisman. Even with all his training and experience, Bruce Wayne is never fully functional as Batman until he dons the cowl. The horned cowl is the trigger. When he puts on the cowl, he seems to become unstoppable, almost in possession of supernatural powers. The mask signals the change.
The magical talismans of Batman's world appear in the form of his chosen weapons and tools. Right from the start of his mission, Batman waged his war not with guns, but with weapons of an almost magical nature. The "batarang" weapon, modeled after the Australian boomerang, has been a key element of Batman's arsenal for a long time. The all-purpose Utility Belt that he wears seems to be a cure-all, and contain a gadget or tool for nearly every situation Batman encounters. In a pinch, the Batsuit itself can be used as a weapon, and he has developed numerous ingenius gadgets that he uses from time to time, like the compressed-air grappling hook gun. Like the magical tokens attributed to characters like King Arthur, Heracles and Perseus, Batman's gadgets have become a part of his lore.
In time, Gotham City became Batman's domain. Gotham has become almost like a troubled kingdom that Batman can rule over, his Camelot, so to speak. A fictional city gives the Batman mythos another similarity to the Monomyth. Gotham City is huge, and despite Batman's efforts, full of corruption and crime. It's a city that, in some ways, could never exist. Gotham has incorporated elements from many of the greatest cities in the world. And some of the locales in Gotham have an almost mystical quality to them. The Batcave. Arhkam Asylum. The Twin Towers. These areas of the city have become as well known to comic book fans as the locales in myth and legend have to those who enjoy them. Batman rules over his kingdom by night, and does what he can to help it during the day as his alter-ego, Bruce Wayne.
If Gotham is Batman's mythical kingdom, then Wayne Manor is his castle. It is his stronghold, and conceals his real life far below in the caverns of what has come to be known as The Batcave. From here, Batman plans his war on crime with his allies, almost like a modern-day King Arthur and his knights of the roundtable.
And, like many of the heroes in Monomyths, The Batman has plenty of allies and sidekicks.
People that share his dream, and mission. Not long after he began his crusade, Bruce Wayne came
upon the "lost child" of his mythos, a teenager whose parents, like his, had been murdered. Seeing
his own tragedy mirrored in the boy, Bruce took the child, Dick Grayson, in as his ward, and eventually trained him as his partner, Robin. Robin was a laughing young daredevil to Batman's brooding Dark Knight, and could be considered as many of the archetypal character models, including the trickster and the sidekick. There have since been several Robins. Dick grew up to become his own man under the strong tutelage of Bruce, and set off to protect the nearby city of Bludhaven as the vigilante Nightwing. In time, Batman took on a second Robin, who was killed in action by one his greatest enemies, and sometime later, a third.
There have been other allies in Batman's war on crime. The police commissioner of Gotham
City, James Gordon, was one of the first. Even the villain Two-Face was once one of Batman's
closest confidantes. The roster of Batman's costumed allies now includes Oracle, who used to be Batgirl until being crippled at the hands of The Joker, and is now the broker of information to an entire planet full of superheroes, Azrael, a knight-like assassin, an avenging angel who Batman rescued from a life of brainwashing and death, The Huntress, whose history mirrors Batman's own tragic loss, The Spoiler, and Batgirl. The four female heroes bear strong resemblances to many of the warrior women archetypes that can be found in different versions of the hero quest.
The villains that inhabit Batman's world are usually colorful archeypes. There is The Joker,
Batman's arch-enemy, who has been described as The Clown Prince of Crime, and wears the
purple of royalty as a costume. There is Two-Face, who was once Harvey Dent, a successful
district attorney on the side of justice (and Batman's ally), whose mind has now been tipped to
madness and an obsession with duality. There is The Scarecrow, a creature of the dark who
feeds on the fear of others. And there are many, many others that fit the archetypes found in the
Monomyth: Catwoman (the harlot), Hugo Strange (the wizard/mad scientist), Poison Ivy (mother nature), Solomon Grundy and Amygdala (giants), Killer Croc (the monster), Clayface (the shapeshifter), Nocturna (the witch), Deadshot (the hired killer), and several "damsels in distress", usually women that Bruce Wayne has loved, that Batman has rescued from certain death.
One of the more important aspects of the hero quest is the appearance or seeking out of a mentor, or guide. There have been many such figures in Batman's life over the years. Leslie Thompkins was a doctor who found a terrified Bruce after his parents were killed, and became like a second mother to him, and a method of support for Batman. Alfred Pennyworth, the valet who cared for Bruce after his parents' death, is very much a father-figure and mentor and remains an ally in his war on crime.
During his training, Bruce learned from the best assassins and martial artists in the world. Some of them tried to take him under their tutelage and twist him to their own ends. There is even a villain named Ra's Al Ghul, who once wanted Batman to marry his daughter, become his heir, and help him in cleansing the world of all human life. Al Ghul's daughter Talia fell in love with Batman, who fell for her as well. But it was not to be. Their love was doomed from the start. Talia's devotion to her father clashed with her love for Bruce Wayne/Batman, and the situational archetype of the "star-crossed lovers" has come into play many times. This particular situation has not arisen only with Talia, but also with Catwoman, and several, more normal women, who Batman has realized he cannot be with because of the vow he made, and the mission he accepted. Some of the women have even lost their lives as a direct result of his crusade.
An interesting aspect of Batman is the moral restrictions he's placed on himself. A hero is
supposed to have high morals, and Batman definitely does. Having seen the effects of losing a
loved one first-hand, and deciding that all life is precious, Batman has sworn never to take a life.
And he never has. He's lost partners, friends, and even lovers to enemies like The Joker and Two-
Face, and he knows that not ending their lives causes even more death, but he cannot bring
himself to kill.
Perhaps the most impressive aspect of the Batman mythos are the trials and challenges he's
faced and overcome. Heroes have quests. A mission they must accomplish, or a lesson to learn. The Batman is no exception. But unlike many such stories, there will be no apotheosis. Because The Batman's quest is one he can never win. He fights a war that's doomed to failure. He knows it's useless, and still he fights on. More then anything, Batman's fight is a struggle to control, to master death. This is another central theme of a Monomyth. He has seen more death then anyone, and still tries to understand it, to control it. Over and over again he learns he cannot. Instead of giving in to his fear of death, and becoming bitter, he still strives to prevent pain and death as much as he can.
Deeds and challenges are a large part of the hero quest. And the deeds of Heracles and other
classic heroes pale in comparison to the things Batman has done. He has saved and enriched countless lives, and stopped threats so great that the combined strength of all the heroes on the
planet couldn't deal with them. He has rid his city of all but the most token of mob influences. He's dealt with an endless parade of supervillains. He has battled and beaten his own drug addiction. He has saved the world ten times over. He has stopped a rogue Superman (which is no small feat), and has battled foes far greater than himself, been beaten (had his back broken), and fought to come back. He has faced down imposters that want to to claim his mantle and Gotham for themselves. Batman has watched his city fall to a massive earthquake, watched the devastation become too much for most people to handle, and struggled with the people of Gotham as the city was cut off from the rest of the United States to keep order. He has been accused of murder, and had to clear his name. He has been hunted by various corrupt officials from time to time, and fights corruption at every level, from his city's own Mayor to the President of the United States (Lex Luthor). He has dealt with invasion from hostile alien forces. When Gotham City fell to a horrible outbreak of the Ebola virus, Batman traveled to the Middle East to seek out Ra's Al Ghul, the architect of the plague, and bring the cure back to his people. More then once he's faced intergalactic or greater threats as a partial member of the Justice League (an international crisis response team of superpowered heroes).
When we see all of these elements coming together, it's not hard to see the values of our own culture creeping into the stories. The Batman mythos are considered by many comic book fans to be a modern-day epic, capable of holding their own with classics like Heracles, and even Gilgamesh. All of the elements of the hero quest can be found somewhere in the stories about the character and his world. What does this mean about our culture? The Batman legend reflects that aspect of our culture that wants to overcome obstacles. The part of us that wants to believe that somewhere out there is a hero who will protect us at his own risk. The part of us that wants to see humanity face adversity and triumph over it, no matter the cost.

Barb Gordon
02-13-2003, 12:50 AM
:eek: I think I just fell in love with Batman all over again...yes...yes I did.

Wow Guard, that was just...kick ass doesn't even cover it really. Is this a recent paper or something? Have you gotten a grade already? Even if a proffessor knew nothing concerning comics, the way you presented your research would make any English teacher proud. You continually tied in your beginning points all the way through concerning the basic hero outlines and using the Batman examples all the way through. Every single example fit so perfectly! Beautiful job, Guard, that was a really superb essay. *warm and fuzzy* that's a perfect example of why I enjoy English Literature so much - it's amazing how you can tie in other things, like comics, together with such interesting concepts and perhaps have never realized how perfectly some things could match together.

~Barb

Jor-El
02-13-2003, 01:02 AM
Just a few general question before I go into a more detailed response on your paper...[list=1] What grade are you in?
Was this a research project, a general essay, or a reflection paper?
I'm assuming this was for an English class. Am I correct?[/list=1]With answers to these questions, I can steer my conversation more appropriately.

The Guard
02-13-2003, 01:07 AM
It's an essay for a college Thematic Approaches To Literature course. I'm a sophomore. I think.

James
02-13-2003, 06:19 AM
Intelligent and well written - as if I expected less...

I must confess myself, I'd always be wary of submitting papers that were comic related - not out of snobbishness, but because I know the attitude the graders have over here to such material - regardless how it's done.

In fact one piece of art - which I've yet to display was crushed by some of the tutors simply for the genre it took from - comics. I've had the same experience with submitting papers in the past.

Is it differently over there? I noticed a couple of you submitting Bat stuff which is great - and getting some good returns from it. Over here, you can bet that subject matter will make a marker scutinize it far more heavily than if you wrote on a more... neutral topic!

Rune
02-13-2003, 07:55 AM
Guard, that was an excellent & illuminating piece of work. Beautifully written & explained and certainly thought provoking enough to make anyone unfamiliar with the Batman myth want to learn more and any lapsed fan want to renew their acquaintance.

SJJ:I must confess myself, I'd always be wary of submitting papers that were comic related - not out of snobbishness, but because I know the attitude the graders have over here to such material - regardless how it's done.

I've noticed the same thing here (UK) too, people who have chosen to include subject material from comic or cult TV related sources in their uni/college work tend to get put down or dissuaded. Several years back a local girl did her dissertation on the X Files which made the local papers together with lots of 'wasting her time on that rubbish' type backlash.

It would be so good if attitudes changed here, still too many people dismiss comic-related subjects as 'not serious' ... its easier to diss than to open your eyes & take a look though

Perhaps the next generation of tutors will be different (especially if they've read Guard's essay!)

The Guard
02-13-2003, 09:36 AM
I cleared it with my professor beforehand. She thought it was a great idea.

TimTwoFace
02-13-2003, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by SJJ

Is it differently over there? I noticed a couple of you submitting Bat stuff which is great - and getting some good returns from it. Over here, you can bet that subject matter will make a marker scutinize it far more heavily than if you wrote on a more... neutral topic!

It all depends what class you go to and what your prof's personal preferences are. Through high school it was a big "NO", but in university I was given more freedom, and wrote a number of papers dealing with Batman, for both English classes and Film classes. And of course, the whole Bat-style helped me find my own personal style when doing artwork or creative writing.

Anyhow, that's a great summation of the Bat-mythos, Guard! It's a pity that so many people don't give Batman and his pop-culture cohorts this amount of respect; they're just as valid a source of literature as Shakespeare and all those other classic literary pieces.

-Tim

James
02-13-2003, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by The Guard
I cleared it with my professor beforehand. She thought it was a great idea.

*big envy* I wish there was such a more open minded attitude over here to such topics..

Ordinary Guy
02-13-2003, 12:34 PM
It's funny it kind reminds of the time when I did a speech on Homer Simpson as the person I admire the most for my speech class in college. It was a spur of the moment type thing. We had to present speeches this one day that had to be about a minute or so long. It could be about anyone and I couldn't think of anything. So when it was my turn I let it rip.

The person I admire the most is an ordinary man, but has done some pretty amazing things in his lifetime. He's done such things as traveled into space, go on tour with the rock group Smashing Pumpkins, he's won an emmy and a grammy, play with softball with such baseball greats like Daryll Strawberry, Jose Canseco, Wade Boggs, and Ken Griffey Jr., he's even beat up former presdient George Bush.

His normal 9-5 job is a safety inspector of the local nuclear power plant.

I also forgot to mention that he's even added words to Webster's Dictionary like: D'ohh! and Wohoo.

When his not working his you can usually find him at local tavern having a few beers, swaping stories with friends. But most of the time you can find him at home spending with his family. His wife Marge and their 3 kids Lisa, Maggie, and Bart.

Yes people the man I admire the most is Homer Simpson.

The professor and the class thought it was great.

I got an A+ on the specch.

James
02-13-2003, 01:12 PM
Perhaps it's because the UK isn't as satuated with comics - and many look down on The Simpsons as a kid's cartoon (it was relagated from prime time channel slot on it's premiere to the secondary channels in a matter of weeks thanks to people misreading what it was). Add that to the fact I think we are academically snobbish here (why write on Bruce Wayne's tragic character when Macbeth is far more interesting....).

Sad, eh? :)

Singin' Stray Cat
02-13-2003, 01:17 PM
I'd like to know where these open-minded schools in the US are, 'cuz I sure as heck don't attend one. If I tried to submit any work in my portfolio based on cartoon characters, I'd either get laughed out of the college, or worse...given the condescending look, since they're looking for art of a more "serious" and "deep" nature. :yawn:

It's funny...such a view just goes to show how shallow these so-called higher-ups really are.

Jor-El
02-13-2003, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by The Guard
The stories that make up the Batman legend are rich in the elements of the classic hero quest, and have been since writer/artist Bob Kane first created them in 1939.Simply incorrect. Bill Finger was the major writer of Batman. Kane was the artist.


Aside from that gripe about accuracy, I would give this little paper of yours, at best, a B-. If I were being strict and fair in my assessment, I'd give an even C.

Not only do you have issues with clarity and conciseness (you have so much excess information in these few paragraphs,) but I also have a lot of problems with lack of references. It is possible that you have omitted these references in the interest of keeping us focused on your ideas; everyone here knows the basic story of Batman anyway. But if I was a teacher who did not, I'd take off a large number of points for absolutely no references... you presume that we're all taking your word for everything you're saying. When you make some of the claims you make (not that they're all untrue,) but it would be nice if you could point us to an issue or an episode and say something like "As you can see in the Batman Animated Series episode 'The Strange Secret of Bruce Wayne', Hugo Strange represents the archetypal mad scientist." Just something to add some weight to your statements. Some validity, if you will. At this point, your essay is 100% conjecture. We know absolutely nothing beyond what you're telling us, and (like I said,) I'd take off two letter grades for that alone.

There are also a few technical problems with form, paragraphs, slightly grammatical errors, and punctuation. A sophomore in college should've had the paper ironed out better. There's no reason, after all, to have points deducted for "cookbook" stuff that, not only should you have already learned, but you can find in any writers' manual. Basic MLA-level stuff. Nothing difficult. I'd rather my paper be marked down for lack of clearly-stated ideas and complete lack of evidence... to have a paper marked off for poor structure and loose mechanics is just careless.

HOWEVER, the points made and analogies drawn ARE very interesting! If we could have BATMAN portrayed consistently in a single title, I might even consider him to be a part of literature. (As it stands now, I do not. If I was your professor—and be glad I am not—you would have had to work doubly as hard to convince me that you handled the assignment competently. Robinson's Starman and Gaiman's Sandman are different completely. These comics fall fully into the realm of literature.)

Overall, mediocre job. Shows incredible potential here. I can definitely see coherent arguments being formed and clear opinions in the paper. Next time push harder to prove to me what you're saying and I think you'd deserve an A.

The Guard
02-13-2003, 02:29 PM
Simply incorrect. Bill Finger was the major writer of Batman. Kane was the artist.

Yeah, I messed up there. I know all about Finger's involvement, but for some reason I put that Bob Kane created the character. That was added when the paper was done and I realized I needed something about the character's history.

Aside from that gripe about accuracy, I would give this little paper of yours, at best, a B-. If I were being strict and fair in my assessment, I'd give an even C.

I'd settle for that. Deep down, I think I did a C job.

Not only do you have issues with clarity and conciseness (you have so much excess information in these few paragraphs,) but I also have a lot of problems with lack of references.[quote]

I just didn't have room to put references and the connections to the hero quest, and keep this paper under seven pages. It was simply not feasible.

[quote]you presume that we're all taking your word for
everything you're saying.

At this point, your essay is 100% conjecture. We know absolutely nothing beyond what you're telling us, and (like I said,) I'd take off two letter grades for that alone.

We were to proceed as if the person reading this had prior knowledge of the material. And I explain everything pretty well, I think. It's not like I put something like "Ra's Al Ghul is a father figure". I give background to those things. I think I explain the connections fairly well without just recounting the story.

When you make some of the claims you make (not that they're all untrue,) but it would be nice if you could point us to an issue or an episode and say something like "As you can see in the Batman Animated Series episode 'The Strange Secret of Bruce Wayne', Hugo Strange represents the archetypal mad scientist."

But she hasn't seen that episode. I doubt she's seen an episode of BTAS in her life. If I had the luxury, I would have made specific points like that. As it is, there are so many similarities between Batman and the archetypal hero quest that I could really only touch on things. The overall effect of the paper was meant to show the incredible scope of the Batman mythos, and that they have their place as good literature. I didn't want to focus on each character. I didn't have room for that. I can't possibly cite a source for every point I make. Because they come from a ton of sources, and the timeline is confusing to comic book fans (not me), let alone regular people.

There are also a few technical problems with form, paragraphs, slightly grammatical errors, and punctuation.

Where? I'm not saying there aren't, just point them out.

A sophomore in college should've had the paper ironed out better. There's no reason, after all, to have points deducted for "cookbook" stuff that, not only should you have already learned, but you can find in any writers' manual. Basic MLA-level stuff. Nothing difficult. I'd rather my paper be marked down for lack of clearly-stated ideas and complete lack of evidence... to have a paper marked off for poor structure and loose mechanics is just careless.

I suck at writing papers, but I get good grades on them, because I blow the teachers away or something. I don't see poor structure and loose mechanics. I had 2-3 pages to fit a ton of information and make a valid point about how the Batman mythos relate to our culture. I think I covered everything about the best I could.

HOWEVER, the points made and analogies drawn ARE very interesting! If we could have BATMAN portrayed consistently in a single title, I might even consider him to be a part of literature.

Somewhere in there I tried to hint that his legend has evolved like Heracles', Gilgamesh's, and other characters throughout history. That element makes it a lasting legend. The evolution of the story, passed on from generation to generation.

The Detective
02-13-2003, 02:33 PM
Great job Guard. I didn't read it all (lack of time) but it definantly looks great.

Jor-El
02-13-2003, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by The Guard
But she hasn't seen that episode. I doubt she's seen an episode of BTAS in her life. If I had the luxury, I would have made specific points like that. As it is, there are so many similarities between Batman and the archetypal hero quest that I could really only touch on things. The overall effect of the paper was meant to show the incredible scope of the Batman mythos, and that they have their place as good literature. I didn't want to focus on each character. I didn't have room for that. I can't possibly cite a source for every point I make. Because they come from a ton of sources, and the timeline is confusing to comic book fans (not me), let alone regular people.No, it's not that she has to have seen a single episode of BTAS even AFTER writing the paper. I just want some room for her to have the option to try it if she wants. If you give her the episode name, you're making it accessible for her to track down. When I write a paper, I am not expecting my professors to have read all the books I used to gather my information. I am not even expecting them to read the books afterwards. But if they want to challenge something I have written, if they think it is false for whatever reason, they have a place to go. By citing episodes (whether or not she'll EVER watch them!!) you're not saying "Yeah, I'm right and I can prove it," you're saying, "If you don't believe me, here's an option for you to see for yourself."I suck at writing papers, but I get good grades on them, because I blow the teachers away or something. :rolleyes: Didn't blow me away, and I'm not even a teacher yet.Somewhere in there I tried to hint that his legend has evolved like Heracles', Gilgamesh's, and other characters throughout history. That element makes it a lasting legend. The evolution of the story, passed on from generation to generation. Lasting legend, yes, but not literature. Batman is too inconsistent. On his being a legend, I will gladly agree with you.

If you would like me to prove my statement about there being loose mechanics, I will gladly email you a file complete with "red ink" and comments in the margins about what you could do differently to make the structure of the paper work for you. I will not, however, post that on the forum and waste everyone's time and space.


Originally posted by The DarkKnight:
Great job Guard. I didn't read it all (lack of time) but it definantly looks great.Every single post on this board looks great without reading it. Hell, the book The Old Man and the Sea looks great without reading it.

Seriously, if you're going to comment on the value or worthlessness of a post, it usually helps to—oh, I don't know!—read it.

The Guard
02-13-2003, 02:50 PM
No, it's not that she has to have seen a single episode of BTAS even AFTER writing the paper. I just want some room for her to have the option to try it if she wants. If you give her the episode name, you're making it accessible for her to track down.

She basically told us we didn't have to do that. Only if we used outside sources to make our points.

Lasting legend, yes, but not literature. Batman is too inconsistent. On his being a legend, I will gladly agree with you.

Inconsistent when looked at altogether. But there are several versions of Batman. If you take the last few years worth of stories, you've got a very consistent run of literature with a similar character who grows and changes as a person.

If you would like me to prove my statement about there being loose mechanics, I will gladly email you a file complete with "red ink" and comments in the margins about what you could do differently to make the structure of the paper work for you. I will not, however, post that on the forum and waste everyone's time and space.

You don't have to prove anything. I just want to see where I messed up. I can't spot things like that sometimes.

The Detective
02-13-2003, 04:46 PM
originally posted by Barry Allen
Every single post on this board looks great without reading it. Hell, the book The Old Man and the Sea looks great without reading it.

Seriously, if you're going to comment on the value or worthlessness of a post, it usually helps to—oh, I don't know!—read it. [/B]
I didn't say that I didn't read it. I said that I didn't read it [i]all[i]. Further all I said was that what I read looked great.

Terminatah
02-13-2003, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by The Guard
You don't have to prove anything. I just want to see where I messed up. I can't spot things like that sometimes. You use it's instead of its.

"It's" = it is, whereas "its" is the possessive. So when you say, "with it's jagged edges and horns," that should be "with its jagged edges and horns."

But don't say "tis," because that's terribly pretentious (as is the word "terribly") ;).

-Terminatah

Barb Gordon
02-13-2003, 08:02 PM
English teachers really seem to be okay with being "different". Some of you will remember that college paper I did a little while ago that involved Nightwing. A cross of comics and The Book of the Courtier. That was so much fun. My teacher honestly didn't have a clue what I was talking about....still got an A though :D And I'm using Batman characters for a Psych paper I'm working on, my psych teacher said the more interesting the better, and that Batman sounded pretty cool to use.

~Barb

The Guard
02-24-2003, 10:18 AM
The detail and thouroughness of this analysis more then make up for it being late! Fascinating. Is this all from comics? (I had snow trouble when I had to turn it in.)

I got an A on the paper, despite what appear to be numerous gramatical errors. Hnnh.

Barb Gordon
02-24-2003, 10:46 AM
An A? yay! Very cool. Hey, if you know you can do better, then do so next time. But if the teacher likes this one, then the A is pretty nice! Think he/she was just amazed comics are actually interesting and...cool.

~Barb

The Guard
02-24-2003, 11:37 AM
I think it had something to do with the fact that I pulled all that from comics, too. :)

Terminatah
02-24-2003, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by The Guard
The detail and thouroughness of this analysis more then make up for it being late! Fascinating. Is this all from comics? (I had snow trouble when I had to turn it in.)

I got an A on the paper, despite what appear to be numerous gramatical errors. Hnnh. Don't even worry about it. If that teacher comment is verbatim, it looks like he misspelled "thoroughness" and used "then" instead of "than." So even though you just misspelled "grammatical," you're still one over on the guy. Swish!

Seriously though, grammar and spelling go a long way, but it's the message that counts.

-Terminatah

The Guard
02-24-2003, 12:05 PM
That's not verbatim. I retyped it. I suck at spelling sometimes. :)

TimTwoFace
02-24-2003, 12:30 PM
Hey, congrats on the A, Guard-dude! :) It's always extra-satisfying to get such a great grade on something you really put your heart and energy into, isn't it?

As for the grammar - yeah, I've been going through terrible dry-spells of spelling (heh) lately. I dunno why this case of grammar withdrawl came over me all of a sudden - maybe I'm just lazy. :p

-Tim

Terminatah
02-24-2003, 01:17 PM
Hey again everyone. Scuse me for a second, I gotta do something.

Originally posted by TimTwoFace
Hey, congrats on the A, Guard-dude! :) It's always extra-satisfying to get such a great grade on something you really put your heart and energy into, isn't it?

As for the grammar - yeah, I've been going through terrible dry-spells of spelling (heh) lately. I dunno why this case of grammar withdrawl came over me all of a sudden - maybe I'm just lazy. :p

-Tim The word is WITHDRAWAL.

Thanks everyone, now get back to it. I believe we were talking about Batman.

-Terminatah

The Detective
02-24-2003, 02:46 PM
Congrats on the A! He he, I hope Barry Allen sees this.

James
02-24-2003, 06:47 PM
Well done! Somehow I expected no less... :)

Barb Gordon
02-24-2003, 10:55 PM
*hugs terminatah* god that was a great thing you just did buddy....hehe, that really got me laughing!

And hey, even is a paper isn't that well written, having an unusual topic will sometimes make up for less then great grammar.

~Barb

The Detective
02-25-2003, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by Barb Gordon
*hugs terminatah* god that was a great thing you just did buddy....hehe, that really got me laughing!

And hey, even is a paper isn't that well written, having an unusual topic will sometimes make up for less then great grammar.

~Barb
I believe you meant "And hey, even IF a paper isn't..." :D

TimTwoFace
02-25-2003, 01:40 AM
Originally posted by Terminatah
Hey again everyone. Scuse me for a second, I gotta do something.

The word is WITHDRAWAL.


Hey, not bad. It only took ya 47 minutes to catch that one. ;)

-Tim

Casity
02-25-2003, 06:51 PM
You had to write a English paper over Batman? What a small world. I had to write a 12 page research paper over the man! I enjoyed the paper though, much better than mine. Dang 10th grade Honors Enlgish... *throws arrow at Mr. Goodwin*