Lupin III vs Cowboy Bebop

[Artemis]

Maybe I'm dense, but after seeing this week's Lupin, I've only found one similarity between Lupin and Bebop: Both Lupin and Spike are unnaturally skinny. :p

People say Bebop was heavily influenced by this show so what other simmilarities are other people finding? Is it too early to ask?

[livingfruitvirus]

Lupin's car drives by in My Funny Valentine.

[Masamune2052]

Jett and Jigen's beards look like they have the same style of beard.

[Mugen]

Both Fujiko and Faye take whatever means to get something they want.

[Chris Wood]

Both have a jazzy soundtrack.

[TylerL]

Spike and Jet's personalities mirror those of Lupin and Jigen (mostly).

[JohnCrichton]

Tyler took my answer.

[Masamune2052]

Goemon and Vicious usually have the calm and emotionless expression on their face and their voices are deep and stern.

[Zach Logan]

The characters mirror each other
The plots mirror each other

The difference?

Setting
Character Designs
Quality!

[Chris Wood]

Originally posted by Gogeta NSSJ
The difference?

Setting
Character Designs
Quality!

Quality? Meaning....?

[G1Ravage]

Originally posted by Masamune2052
Goemon and Vicious usually have the calm and emotionless expression on their face and their voices are deep and stern.

Goemon reminds me more of Suzuka from Outlaw Star.

[Masamune2052]

Originally posted by Desslar
Quality? Meaning....?
Well, Lupin was animated in the 70's. Cowboy Bebop was done in the late 90's. Somewhere in that 30 year period animation has evolved. :D

[Chris Wood]

Originally posted by Masamune2052
Well, Lupin was animated in the 70's. Cowboy Bebop was done in the late 90's. Somewhere in that 30 year period animation has evolved. :D

In terms of the animation itself, Cowboy Bebop is certainly more refined than the 70s Lupin TV series, but current Lupin films are just as good.

It's debatable how much TV animation has really evolved over the years. It has gone from really cheap looking cell animation to really cheap looking computer animation.

[Zach Logan]

Originally posted by Masamune2052
Well, Lupin was animated in the 70's. Cowboy Bebop was done in the late 90's. Somewhere in that 30 year period animation has evolved. :D

Sorry, thats what I meant.

I actually think that Bebop's character designs and animation are very good. They seem to be original and funny (similer to Lupin)

Both shows are similer, but their differences are the time they were made

70s (60s)
90s

Your gonna find a difference

[ClockStomper]

Eh, while both shows are enjoyable in their own right, Lupin's not comparable to Bebop. When compared, Lupin is hum and Bebop is a full orchestra. The hum is enjoyable, but the orchestra is wayyy better (not that I listen to orchestra, just an example.)

[Chris Wood]

Originally posted by ClockStomper
Eh, while both shows are enjoyable in their own right, Lupin's not comparable to Bebop. When compared, Lupin is hum and Bebop is a full orchestra. The hum is enjoyable, but the orchestra is wayyy better (not that I listen to orchestra, just an example.)

Well, I will have to differ with that opinion, but to each their own. I'm guessing you mean that Bebop tends to run a little deeper in terms of story and character development. That's probably true for the TV series, but it's more debatable for the movies.

At any rate, these series really have different objectives. Bebop is mostly dramatic with flashes of comedy, while Lupin is mostly comedic with bits of drama.

[MothMonsterMan]

Originally posted by Masamune2052
Jett and Jigen's beards look like they have the same style of beard.

They also have the same voice. Maybe because there similar looks were noticed?

[Joe Tully]

Originally posted by MothMonsterMan
They also have the same voice. Maybe because there similar looks were noticed?

Similar, but not the same. Beau Billingslea is Jet, while Richard Epcar is Jigen.

[Zero Angel]

why are Bebop and Lupin being compared is my question.

one is a space opera style action/drama that has a throw back feel to spagetti westerns.

one is a comedy/mystery style show that is a combination between Indiana Jones and James Bond.

how are these two shows similar?

perhaps people mistake the homage that Bebop plays out to Lupin as compariable markers.

[Ultra8]

Lupin III vs. Cowboy Bebop.
They did that once on a poll at Scifi.com's anime section. Even came up with a story on how they would wind up fighting. I think it was a tie.

[Mugen]

Originally posted by Zero Angel
why are Bebop and Lupin being compared is my question.

one is a space opera style action/drama that has a throw back feel to spagetti westerns.

one is a comedy/mystery style show that is a combination between Indiana Jones and James Bond.

how are these two shows similar?

perhaps people mistake the homage that Bebop plays out to Lupin as compariable markers.

We're comparing personalities, not series.

[MothMonsterMan]

Originally posted by Joe Tully
Similar, but not the same. Beau Billingslea is Jet, while Richard Epcar is Jigen.

Well, they're still very similar.

[J J Gittes]

The cowboy bebop episode "cowboy funk" played out just like an episode of Lupin. It had a funny plot, with a funny villain and it even had some crazy/goofy animation (like spike and andy running up the building). I know that wasnt a normal episode of bebop, but it still fits the Lupin mold. I'm curious to see if Lupin does any serious shows.

[JetMaster5]

I don't think Lupin the Third series does any serious episodes. The only ones that are serious are the movies.

[rmarti3926]

I don't think Spike wouldn't be caught dead being whacked with a spring-loaded punching glove (see original opening) get squashed by a steel floor (see Gold Smuggling 101) or sing underwater (see 50 Ways to Leave your 50 Foot Lover) like Lupin does.

Fujiko don't have Faye's enomous debts and Jet's no crack shot like Jigen (Mr. Black spends more time decrypting codes, talking to Bob on 411, and feeding Ein all the time.)

[Daisuke Jigen]

Originally posted by rmarti3926
I don't think Spike wouldn't be caught dead being whacked with a spring-loaded punching glove (see original opening) get squashed by a steel floor (see Gold Smuggling 101) or sing underwater (see 50 Ways to Leave your 50 Foot Lover) like Lupin does.

Fujiko don't have Faye's enomous debts and Jet's no crack shot like Jigen (Mr. Black spends more time decrypting codes, talking to Bob on 411, and feeding Ein all the time.)

At the same time, Faye doesn't have Fujikos enormous assets. :moon2:

[atomic_afro]

Is it just me or is alot of Lupin-style character types also present in Outlaw Star, and the movie Riding Bean?

This was mentioned before, but I want to bring it back up again. Suzuka IS the female Goemon. Not only in personality, fighting style, and culture, but both have a similar relationship to the main character (Gene & Lupin). Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Goemon hired to kill Lupin at one point, but in the end joined his party, and from then on Goemon insisted that he was the only one who could kill Lupin. Similar events happened in Outlaw Star leading up to Suzuka joining the group.

I find that Gene and Lupin have more things in common personality wise than Spike and Lupin, although Lupin and Spike have the same build and fashion sense ;-)

As for Riding Bean, Percy is so much like Zenigata it's not even funny. They are both bitter, underappriciated nutballs who will do anything to catch their man (Bean & Lupin). Also Bean has a habit of pissing off Percy in the same comedic style of Lupin's interactions with Pops.

The physics of both Riding Bean & Lupin have similar comedic non-realities to them (Shaking off bullets, making impossible jumps in automobiles, etc.), and both Lupin & Bean are likeable anti-heroes.

It just goes to show you that imitation is the greatest form of flattery. Long live the king of thieves!

[SSDDR]

Yes, goemon is originally hired to kill lupin. And dont misunderstand that any series similarieties to lupin are more than coincidence. even though you dont hear much about it, lupin is one of the most popular shows ever in japan, spanning 30 years now, and for god only knows how much more.

[tlsmith1963]

I saw Lupin III, & I like both Lupin & Cowboy Bebop. I can see the similarities, & since I found Lupin to be clever & funny, at least Bebop was influenced by a good show! I do agree that Gene Starwind is more like Lupin, though.

Tammy

[Arde]

Comparing the characters of Lupin III and CB would be much better than comparing the series' themselves.

As far as series go, Cowboy Bebop is way ahead of Lupin in almost any sense.
And not just because it had serious storyline either.
Cowboy Bebop wins hands down in terms of dialogue scripting, cinematography, action coreography, art and design, and soundtrack.
In terms of dialogue, the dialogue feels much more refined than Lupin's.
In terms of cinematography, I've never seen such ambitious shots. Cowboy Bebop incorporates famous techniques from famous directors like John Woo's style as seen in the gorgeous gunfights. And who can forget the dramatic shots in Waltz for Venus? The still shots are also excellent and very beautiful.
And action coreography...other than Ninja Scroll and Street FIghter 3, I've never seen a better action coreography than Cowboy Bebop's.
Art and design...this one is easy, just check the designs for the ops, endings, still shots, previews, and those commercial breaks. Those are very good artworks.
And soundtrack...until today, I've never heard any other series nor movies(animation or live action including Holywood's) that can match the ambitiousness and the perfection that Bebop reached.

So, Lupin III is no match at all for Cowboy Bebop. Cowboy Bebop had much more budget, much more technology, much more talent producing it, and much more goals and ambitions.

I'm not saying that Lupin III series is bad in quality. It's a good comedy and action series, but it just does not compare to Cowboy Bebop at all.

[cowboybebop27]

Id think cowboy bebop would winthis fight because the cartoon is alot better looking then lupin the III. do you see how skinny the peoples legs are there skiner than me :eek:

[candy17]

Originally posted by Artemis
Both Lupin and Spike are unnaturally skinny. :p


Yes, but Spike looks good with his lanky build; Lupin looks near anorexic.

Anyway, how can you compare a cheap, campy 1970's anime with a late 90's anime that practically everyone knows and/or likes...nay loves. That's like adding apples and oranges (or something like that).

[Lord Trunks]

Overall they are after the same thing...money in one form or another

[Artemis]

Originally posted by candy17
Yes, but Spike looks good with his lanky build; Lupin looks near anorexic.

Anyway, how can you compare a cheap, campy 1970's anime with a late 90's anime that practically everyone knows and/or likes...nay loves. That's like adding apples and oranges (or something like that).

*sigh* Look, I am not comparing the series here. I'm comparing personalities and simalarities between the shows since Lupin is one of the many influences for Cowboy Bebop. Geez.

[DarkMaster]

3 ways
Faye and Fujiko are babes
Spike and lupin wear a trendy tie.
Spike is after bounty. Lupin is after loot.

Other than that i see nothing else of these two resembling each other.

[Arde]

Originally posted by Artemis
*sigh* Look, I am not comparing the series here. I'm comparing personalities and simalarities between the shows since Lupin is one of the many influences for Cowboy Bebop. Geez.
Well, as far as characters go:

Jet is definitely drawn after Jigen and especially the flashback we had of Jet when he was still in the force (in the Ganymede episode). He had a hat and a suit just like Jigen's. What a cameo, I tell you!
And like Jigen who's good with technology, Jet himself is not bad with techie stuffs.

For Viscious and Goemon, the only similarities I see is their love for their blade and a little bit of appearance. We've never seen Goemon use a gun, and the only time we see Viscious use a gun is in the flashback back when he was still partners with Spike.

Now, for Spike...the only thing I can see in common with Lupin is the clothing they wear. Lupin wears a suit and a tie, the same thing as Spike. Other than that, nothing else...Spike's personality is completely different from Lupin's in any way. Lupin is a leader, a lecher, and a joker. Spike is not a clown, mostly works by himself/solitude, and definitely not a womanizer.

As far as Faye and Fujicakes, they share a hot body and face and the same guile in getting what they want. Other than that, nada.
Fujicakes care much more about Lupin than Faye will in a century.

[SSDDR]

i dont know about you, but i never felt nearly as attached to the CB characters as lupins. Spike is a little too mopey and a loner for my tastes, and the characters realy dont have the chemestry that lupin does. i agree that the animation and the shots are much better in CB, but i just cant help but love lupin and his band of misfit theives.
Plus lupin doesnt have any of those boring development episodes, like Ballad of Fallen Angels bores the hell out of me...

[Zero Angel]

i wasnt sure i wanted to post again on this topic but a recent post has been brought to my attention and needs some...ur...discussion.

Originally posted by Arde
Comparing the characters of Lupin III and CB would be much better than comparing the series' themselves.

ok, that is what i felt would probably be necessary after i got a reply to my original post.

Originally posted by Arde
As far as series go, Cowboy Bebop is way ahead of Lupin in almost any sense.

i wouldnt say in almost any sense. i would say in terms of art, some direction, and a little bit of action yes but in most terms? nah. then again we have to agree that the reason art, music, and direction are lacking is because this is a series that spans 100 and something episodes and is almost 3 decades old and Bebop is a 26 episode series that was made in the late 90s.

Originally posted by Arde
And not just because it had serious storyline either.
Cowboy Bebop wins hands down in terms of dialogue scripting, cinematography, action coreography, art and design, and soundtrack.

again i point to my responce. Lupin is almost 30 years old. as for dialogue...

Originally posted by Arde
In terms of dialogue, the dialogue feels much more refined than Lupin's.

Lupin is a comedy series that has no real deep meaning to it, where as Bebop was putting alot on its character interactions to tell the emotional impact each character had on each other. you want good Lupin dialouge watch Castle of Cagliostro.

Originally posted by Arde
Art and design...this one is easy, just check the designs for the ops, endings, still shots, previews, and those commercial breaks. Those are very good artworks.

um, again about 30 years and somewhere in the vicinity of 80 something episodes seperate the series.

Originally posted by Arde
And soundtrack...until today, I've never heard any other series nor movies(animation or live action including Holywood's) that can match the ambitiousness and the perfection that Bebop reached..

Escaflowne, Macross Plus, Arjuna, GitS : Stand Alone Complex, Brain Powered, Cowboy Bebop. what do these animes have in common? answer : Yokko Kanno. she is a genious when it comes to music and its no surprise that Bebop has a great one, she is one of the best composers to come out of japan, ever. i wouldnt say that it Bebop is alone good for this result, simply that Kanno is a mastermind, besides, Escaflowne and Macross Plus are have much better STs.

Originally posted by Arde
So, Lupin III is no match at all for Cowboy Bebop. Cowboy Bebop had much more budget, much more technology, much more talent producing it, and much more goals and ambitions.

again, as it has been stated before and as i will state it again, Lupin is 30 years old. if Lupin had the budget that Bebop had for every 26 episodes with current technology in animation and had Yokko Kanno doing the ST Lupin would not just be a classic, it would probably be the best. shall we not forget that certain traits in Bebop would not be present if it wasnt for Lupin originating it?

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Originally posted by ClockStomper
Eh, while both shows are enjoyable in their own right, Lupin's not comparable to Bebop. When compared, Lupin is hum and Bebop is a full orchestra. The hum is enjoyable, but the orchestra is wayyy better (not that I listen to orchestra, just an example.)

The orchestra also borrows heavily from the hum. Without the hum, there is no orchestra.

[Chris Wood]

Originally posted by Arde
As far as series go, Cowboy Bebop is way ahead of Lupin in almost any sense.
And not just because it had serious storyline either.
Cowboy Bebop wins hands down in terms of dialogue scripting, cinematography, action coreography, art and design, and soundtrack.
So, Lupin III is no match at all for Cowboy Bebop. Cowboy Bebop had much more budget, much more technology, much more talent producing it, and much more goals and ambitions.
I'm not saying that Lupin III series is bad in quality. It's a good comedy and action series, but it just does not compare to Cowboy Bebop at all.

Now I can't let this go unchallenged.

Dialogue?
We are comparing apples with oranges with dramatic dialogue vs. comedic dialogue, but particularly in the original Japanese Lupin has plenty of great lines.

Cinematography?
Perhaps Bebop has the edge here. Lupin is not usually ambitious in this area.

Action?
Again, we're comparing serious action with comedic action. That said, recent Lupin films have had some very elaborate action scenes.

Art and design?
This is extremely subjective. It is pointless to compare Bebop (1998) with the 2nd Lupin TV series (1978-80). You should compare Bebop to the late 90s Lupin TV movies, such as Walther P-38 (1997), Tokyo Crisis (1998), and Fujiko's Unlucky Days(1999). I don't think you will notice any big difference in animation quality.

Soundtrack?
Get out of here. Bebop's is certainly good, but the Lupin soundtrack is legendary. There are new mix versions of it released year after year.

In the end though these 2 series are really too different to compare.

[Arde]

Originally posted by Desslar
Now I can't let this go unchallenged.

Dialogue?
We are comparing apples with oranges with dramatic dialogue vs. comedic dialogue, but particularly in the original Japanese Lupin has plenty of great lines.

Art and design?
This is extremely subjective. It is pointless to compare Bebop (1998) with the 2nd Lupin TV series (1978-80). You should compare Bebop to the late 90s Lupin TV movies, such as Walther P-38 (1997), Tokyo Crisis (1998), and Fujiko's Unlucky Days(1999). I don't think you will notice any big difference in animation quality.

Soundtrack?
Get out of here. Bebop's is certainly good, but the Lupin soundtrack is legendary. There are new mix versions of it released year after year.

In the end though these 2 series are really too different to compare. Regarding dialogue...I didn't just mean about the serious sappy dialogue in CB, also the part of humour dialogue. I guess it's more of an intelligent humour in some ways...

Regarding art and design, I never compared the animation if you read my post again. The animation of CB is so modern and big-budgeted that it just doesn't compare. I was talking about how the art and design themselves. I'm not talking about the design of the characters or the mecha.
For example, in the ending, the stillshots of the rose on the puddle, Spike sitting on the bench, the dynamic movement of Julia on the stairs with SPike and Viscious waiting. If you take screenshots of Bebop's op on the right time, you can put them up as a poster, since most of the op is filled with artworks.

Regarding the soundtrack, are you just being nostalgic or just prefer Lupin's soundtrack better than CB?
I listen to Lupin's soundtrack, but it just doesn't seem to hold a candle to CB's. Perhaps it's just my taste, perhaps it's just that CB's soundtrack is much more suited for the late 90s, or perhaps it's just that CB's soundtrack is much more varied than LUpin's.
Who knows? It's hard to say, since good taste is a very subjective issue (and don't dare tell me it's actually objective).

[Outside Angel]

Umm...how 'bout the legendary white-guy afro? Gotta love the 'fro.

[Arde]

Originally posted by Outside Angel
Umm...how 'bout the legendary white-guy afro? Gotta love the 'fro. Regarding that, anyone knows what influenced the creators of CB to give Spike a green afro??

[Sprocket]

Bob Dylan, circa 1960s.

As for the soundtrack arguement, while Cowboy Bebop has a varied soundtrack, the jazzier tunes seem to harken to Lupin's soundtrack. Rush, N.Y. Rush, Too Good to Bad, Piano Bar I, etc.

Look for some of Yuji Ohno's stuff and you'll notice. Especially Lupin the 3rd Jazz the First, Second, and Third albums. The similarites are there.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

I would say that the english Lupin has slightly wittier dialogue than CB's. Cowboy Bebop's english dialogue is sometimes an incoherent mishmash of punchline and poetry. I can't think of one line in Cowboy Bebop that can be considered witty. That's not to say it was a bad english script, I just think it isn't as great as people thought it was.

Lupin's english adaptation has slightly sharper dialogue exchanges. It's like comparing a Billy Wilder script to an Adam Sandler script. One has better comic exchanges, the other doesn't.

[Jimmy Kustes]

These animes are all very different. They have little to do with each other besides the fact that if you watch Lupin, you will like anime along the lines of Cowboy Bebop and Trigun. You might as well say Lupin is a mix of the Pink Panther, Top Cat, Robin Hood, and Ocean's Eleven.

[Jimmy Kustes]

Originally posted by Outside Angel
Umm...how 'bout the legendary white-guy afro? Gotta love the 'fro.

The dude that paints landscapes on PBS was white and had an afro. He's painting clouds in heaven now...

[JetMaster5]

Originally posted by SSDDR
Plus lupin doesnt have any of those boring development episodes, like Ballad of Fallen Angels bores the hell out of me...

Either you're not into drama and gun-action, or you don't care about orchestrated music flow perfectly with the scenes, or you're just a little kid. In that case, here are some few anime series that could grab your attention in a short span:

Hamtaro

(the more popular) DragonballZ and Pokemon

Tokyo Pig

Naruto

[MothMonsterMan]

Originally posted by Jimmy Kustes
The dude that paints landscapes on PBS was white and had an afro. He's painting clouds in heaven now...

Happy Little Tree! :french1:

Lupin and Cowboy Bebop have similar character chemistries, but I personally prefer Lupin. They're both great, and similarities can easily be seen

[Arde]

Originally posted by Leaping Larry Jojo
I would say that the english Lupin has slightly wittier dialogue than CB's. Cowboy Bebop's english dialogue is sometimes an incoherent mishmash of punchline and poetry. I can't think of one line in Cowboy Bebop that can be considered witty. That's not to say it was a bad english script, I just think it isn't as great as people thought it was.

Lupin's english adaptation has slightly sharper dialogue exchanges. It's like comparing a Billy Wilder script to an Adam Sandler script. One has better comic exchanges, the other doesn't. True, although I won't say it's an incoherent mishmash of dialogue. While Lupin strives to give gags and punchline to its dialogue, COwboy bebop doesn't.
Most of the humour in Cowboy Bebop is not found in gags or witty dialogue, rather the situation that they're in is what caused the humour.
A simple example: in Ballad of Fallen ANgels, when Faye was humming a tune to accompany the wounded Spike, Spike mentioned Faye to come closer and then said "You sang offkey"-that of course made Faye a bit upset.
The dialogue isn't witty at all and contains no punchline, however it just made me smile at the situation presented.
For me, the script was great for the obvious reasons of all, it felt natural, there was no forced gag/punchline or dramatization/overangstiness of characters.

PS: Either you're referring to Adam Sandler's "Punch Drunk Love" when you compared it with the scripts of CB (which I hope you are since it is a good movie), or you must be fully intoxicated to the point reality blurs with fiction that you would even compare CB's script with Sandler's crappy and generic excuse for comedy(referring to most of his movies).

[Anarky]

caught the end of Disorient Express last night

Jigen(?) and Jet have very similar voices. I doubt it's the same guy though. Not many people sound the same way after 30 yrs.

[MothMonsterMan]

Originally posted by Anarky
caught the end of Disorient Express last night

Jigen(?) and Jet have very similar voices. I doubt it's the same guy though. Not many people sound the same way after 30 yrs.

A) I agree, about them sounding similar, but Joe Tully pointed out to me that they were different VAs

B) Lupin wasn't dubbed into English 30 years ago

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Originally posted by Arde


PS: Either you're referring to Adam Sandler's "Punch Drunk Love" when you compared it with the scripts of CB (which I hope you are since it is a good movie), or you must be fully intoxicated to the point reality blurs with fiction that you would even compare CB's script with Sandler's crappy and generic excuse for comedy(referring to most of his movies).

I wasn't comparing it to Sandler's crappy movies, I was saying (or trying to) that the difference in snappyness is tenfold when comparing the Lupin dub to the CB dub.

Thus, I used a Billy Wilder (The Lost Weekend, Ninotchka) vs Adam Sandler (say, Happy Gilmore) as an example of the divide. It is vast.

That's not to say the Lupin script is the best thing out there compared to a Charlie Kaufman script, but it's comparing a stilted script to a wittier one. I feel Cowboy Bebop is stilted in spots...though it isn't noticeable unless you put it side by side with a superior script.

Given the type of show Cowboy Bebop is, it could have done for some sharper dialogue. For a bunch of smartypants characters, they don't always TALK like smartasses, which I think they should, at times.

btw--I am a Sandler fan of sorts. I liked quite a few of his brain dead movies. :p

[BiggSyke]

It's hard to compare these two great shows, but it's pretty obvious that CB was heavily inspired by Lupin. Here's a Newtype scan for you to see...try and translate it, I'd like to know what it says.

Lupin III/Cowboy bebop directors. (http://wave.prohosting.com/biggsyke/LUPINBEBOPgif.gif)

or

2nd try (http://wave.prohosting.com/~biggsyke/LUPINBEBOPgif.gif)

Click refresh a few times. If for some reason the links don't work email me. Free hosting is a thing of the past.

Late.