Marvel Bans Smoking

[James Harvey]

That's right! Beginning this year, no Marvel superheroes (in the CLASSIC MARVEL and ULTIMATE MARVEL lines) will be smoking. Only characters in the MAX line will smoke. But villians will be allowed to smoke. Marvel doesn't want to present a good image of smoking to readers, which is why steady smoker WOLVERINE will be dropping the nasty habit, as well as other cigar chomping, nicotine lovin' heroes will unexpectedly drop the habit. So - any comments on this? Is this good? Bad?

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

How insulting. I've watched tons of movies, cartoons and comics when I was a kid that portrayed smoking, and I've never had an inclination to smoke. Do they really think cutting down on smoking in comics will help? I doubt it.

[Clayface]

BAD. No wonder I don't like Marvel. Come on? Wolverine without his cigar? That's like Comissioner Gordon without his pipe! (Thanks DC) :rolleyes:

[Nightflower]

Originally posted by Dick Grayson
That's right! Beginning this year, no Marvel superheroes (in the CLASSIC MARVEL and ULTIMATE MARVEL lines) will be smoking. Only characters in the MAX line will smoke. But villians will be allowed to smoke. Marvel doesn't want to present a good image of smoking to readers, which is why steady smoker WOLVERINE will be dropping the nasty habit, as well as other cigar chomping, nicotine lovin' heroes will unexpectedly drop the habit. So - any comments on this? Is this good? Bad?

But what if some people admire the villains, not the good guys?

[Maxie Zeus]

Originally posted by Nightflower
But what if some people admire the villains, not the good guys?

Good point!

Regarding the smoking ban: Sigh. Of course portrayals of smoking are not "socially responsible," but since when are comic books supposed to be socially responsible? Since when has art had this as its primary function, or even as a secondary function?

[Joe Tully]

Yeah. We can't have the characters smoking, but we can have them solve their problems by beating the crap out of each other and blast each other with lazers. Not that I'm against the characters beating the crap out of each other, mind you. It's just that I'm trying to point out how hypocritical they are.

If you're writing a story, then just write the story in whatever way conveys characterization, plot, etc. the best. I think that seeing characters like Wolverine, the Thing, Nick Fury, etc. smoking added to their character.

If you want to write believable stories, it helps if they are similar to people in real life. And in real life, some people smoke. I don't think that it's good to teach kids to smoke, but if you are writing a story, I think that your first concern should be to write a good story. Little touches like a character's fondness for cigars makes the characters less 2-dimensional and improve the story.

[don Jaime]

This doesn't even make sense. Didn't Marvel just dump the antiquated Comics Code for lunacy like this?

[Calhoun07]

This reminds me of a story. When I was in school, I drew this booklet type thing for kids that had puzzles and stories and stuff and on one page, I drew General McArthur. For the culturally challenged, General McArthur is famous for his sunglasses and pipe. You cannot have an image of McArthur without his pipe. But somebody raised an objection to my booklet because it had a pipe smoker in it and was "promoting" smoking. I refused to re do the drawing. I thought, how stupid can some people be? How totally and utterly ignorant? I don't smoke, I grew up in a house of smokers and I never even tried a cigarette. If I can withstand falling "prey" to the habit being raised in that envirionment, then I think a comic book won't be inspiring kids to smoke. Geez, how stupid. Doesn't Marvel know kids don't buy their comic books any more anyway, just single adults?

[Frozen]

Nick Fury has ALWAYS been the favourite character of this married adult... ;) ... and I can't BELIEVE that we won't be seeing him smoke anymore - I mean, the cigar, the eye-patch, and the grey hairs are his TRADEMARKS for God's sake!!! I have NEVER EVER smoked a cigarette, despite buying whatever Nick Fury books I could since I was 13. WHAT NONSENCE!!!

I find this particular subject annoying because I recently designed a great looking character for the computer game I'm working on, and I had to scrap him becasue he was smoking. Jeez - as has already been said, you can't have a character in a computer game smoke or drink, but he can mutilate his adversaries in the most glorified wet-dream of violence the designers can come up... There's something seriously wrong there.

[James]

What about J Jonah Jameson? Is he a considered a role model? Is he a good guy or a bad guy? Simple boundries between good and bad like this is just total wooly thinking. Sounds like a very lazy PR effort....

If there was ever ANY doubt which was the mature of the two hefty comic giants, I think we now have a definate answer.

Pathetic.

[The Mad Hatter]

I can see the good intentions here. Teen smoking is a big problem, as a lot of them start smoking for rash reasons (image, rebellion, etc.). But the earlier people start smoking, the harder it is to stop. So that person who started smoking only because his parents didn't want him to now has a monkey on his back for the rest of his (shortened) life. And the big tobacco companies have targeted teenagers for quite some time, so part of anti-smoking efforts is to reverse this trend.

Even so, I can't support Marvel's decision. As some posters have said, smoking just fits some characters' personalities. And as others have mentioned, superheroes aren't exactly the best of role models anyway, as they tend to solve their problems with their fists, and often kill people. Of course, as a writer, I don't like to see too many restrictions on what can and can't be said.

[Calhoun07]

Big tobacco companies target teens. Well said. Removing cigarettes from cartoons, comic books, movies, video games, whatever, won't solve zilch. Do these people honestly think teens start smoking because they see this stuff in the media? Who is doing their research?

[Govan]

Exactly, just because Wolverine or whoever smokes in comics, doesn't mean I'm gonna pick up the habit. I don't go around wearing underwear on the outside or go robbing banks, so why are they removing smoking anyway?

There's a lot of violence in some comics, shouldn't they be more worried about that? Like I said, I'm not heavily influenced to make a life-altering decision by something I see in a comic or a TV show or whatever the medium. We all choose to read what we want; parents are the ones who should restrict their young children from things they don't approve of. I feel I'm adult enough to have some sense about what I see in the world. Should resonsible people have to suffer by being deprived of a more enjoyable experience, just because parents aren't there?

I think the biggest influences are peers, parents, and personality.

[joker]

i think wolverine needs his cigar, as small as it is, it adds a lot to his character. i could see objections to some one like super man that all american hero lighting up a cigarette but wolverine is a rebellious hero who kind of reminds me of a bar room brawler(which im am sure hes had a plenty) type guy and the cigar just adds to it.

i think it doesnt make a differance in weather a kid will smoke or not, if a kid is smart, he'll know how bad tabbacco is for you and know enough to go near it but if some kids really wants to smoke, hes going to smoke.

[JLU Dude]

Marvel is shooting itself in the foot. First, the move away from the code. I mean, do you see Witchblade or Spawn on the shelves at Grocery stores? No, it's because they don't go by the code. Now, this move will alienate Marvel fans. Marvel's atempt to try to get more fans is only going to lead to it's demise.

[BourgeoisBuffoon]

Show a video on the horrors of smoking to let kids know what happens when you smoke...saw one, TRULY nasty stuff....don't wanna talk about it here...

....Still, you gotta admire MARVEL for trying to help kids refrain from smoking; but if it makes a char who he is, let him/her keep smoking. As others say, I'm not gonna smoke just because I see Wolverine smoking...so I say let the chars smoke.

[James]

Originally posted by Govan

I think the biggest influences are peers, parents, and personality.

Beautifully put. Simple truth is that people refuse to see the 'evil' in themselves. Adults who smoke refuse to accept that the reason their kid has started the habit is less to do with Wolvie and more to do with their smoking habit.

People need to start looking for their own actions when resolving anti social behaviour - then they would see the inherent root of all evil lies with themselves and not some silly comic book story...

Perhaps then, comics and the media in general could actually stop pandering to this misinformed belief that censorship will solve society's problems.

But that's another story! :D

[James Harvey]

By doing this, it's accomplishing essentially nothing. Parents are supposed to teach kid snot to smoke, do drugs, etc. But do most parents do this? Nope. They rely on movies, shows, and even comics to teach kids about the rights and wrongs of the world.

And I think Wolverine should have his trademark cigar.

[Psycho Fox]

Originally posted by Dick Grayson
By doing this, it's accomplishing essentially nothing. Parents are supposed to teach kid snot to smoke, do drugs, etc. But do most parents do this? Nope. They rely on movies, shows, and even comics to teach kids about the rights and wrongs of the world.

And I think Wolverine should have his trademark cigar. Right, the parents should protect their kids from that stuff till they are old enough to make their own decisions. It is not up to the goverment or any industry.

[DR. BELCH]

--I don't approve of smoking as a habit. My personal credo is "If you don't smoke around me I won't fart around you". Nor do I like anti-smoking government goosesteppers coming down the way they do and saying tobacco products should be banned completely, to the point of threatening fines and imprisonment if you light up a butt twenty miles down the road. Next you'll be saying characters can't eat red meat in the comics because the vegans'll get offended, or that you can't pop a guy in the jib because the pacifists will protest. I agree with Psych and Dick--parents should raise their children, not big government or censors.
Though I thought Wolvernine was giving up smoking because with his healing factor impaired (after losing his adamantium to Magnus) his lungs can't take the stuff as well as they used to.

[Calhoun07]

Originally posted by DR. BELCH
--I don't approve of smoking as a habit. My personal credo is "If you don't smoke around me I won't fart around you".

Oh, that's nice! Of course, I never heard of people dying from second hand farts!

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Originally posted by calhoun07


Oh, that's nice! Of course, I never heard of people dying from second hand farts!

I almost did once. :mad:

[Psycho Fox]

Originally posted by calhoun07


Oh, that's nice! Of course, I never heard of people dying from second hand farts! Depends on the farter and if it is a well Ventilated area or not.

[Calhoun07]

Silent and deadly are the worst ones. Mine are that way. Some of my favorite foods do the worst to me...White Castle Hamburgers, breakfast burritos...

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

And if you are in an enclosed space by yourself, it is a credible way to commit suicide, though personally, it'd be better to slit your wrist.

[Psycho Fox]

Originally posted by Leaping Larry Jojo
And if you are in an enclosed space by yourself, it is a credible way to commit suicide, though personally, it'd be better to slit your wrist. No it isn't if you Fated in a enclosed space you would just pass out at the most

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Originally posted by Psycho Fox
No it isn't if you Fated in a enclosed space you would just pass out at the most

Passing out? We are talking farts here, my good man! :eek:

[BourgeoisBuffoon]

Can we try to go back on topic...this thread is making me lose my lunch....(B.B. throws up over the railing by him)

But I say you cannot die from second-hand farts....very smelly, but not too bad enough to DIE from. I'd rather die from it than slit wrists, BTW.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Originally posted by BourgeoisBuffoon
Can we try to go back on topic...this thread is making me lose my lunch....(B.B. throws up over the railing by him)

But I say you cannot die from second-hand farts....very smelly, but not too bad enough to DIE from. I'd rather die from it than slit wrists, BTW.

Okay, I think I've milked this sarcasm dry by now.

[DR. BELCH]

I actually did hear or read someplace that breathing in others' social indiscretions is even worse and deadlier than their second-hand smoke.
There was the case of this poor bugger, though:
http://www.snopes.com/humor/follies/methane.htm
--as well as this poor lass who probably wanted to die after she lost control of herself:
http://www.snopes.com/love/dating/fart.htm
I'm sure a few of us have been there.
Geez, I didn't think my little joke would get this much response.... :p

[Maxie Zeus]

Hey Craig--

If you're watching, I think we just found a "story" here for the next April Fool's Day edition of the TZ News! :D

[The Mad Hatter]

I have a friend who's rather infamous for gaseous emissions... and he'll often do it in his sleep. Once, he managed to let one rip at around midnight that was so bad he and his wife had to get out of the bedroom, the stench was so bad. Sad thing was, they tried to go back at 3:30 in the morning, and the air STILL wasn't clear.

[Maxie Zeus]

Originally posted by The Mad Hatter
I have a friend who's rather infamous for gaseous emissions... and he'll often do it in his sleep. Once, he managed to let one rip at around midnight that was so bad he and his wife had to get out of the bedroom, the stench was so bad. Sad thing was, they tried to go back at 3:30 in the morning, and the air STILL wasn't clear.

Half of me thinks this thread should be split in two, since it has wandered so far from the original topic. The other half thinks "Let's not advertise this. . . "

My favorite story (related to me by a friend of the guy) was about a college professor who applied for a job at a university in one of the mountain states. Going to the on-campus interview, he was ushered into a small conference where all the members of the department--large, heavy, hairy, sweaty men--removed their parkas (it was winter) and filled the room with their, ah, "manly" aromas. Halfway through the interview they were joined by a late-arriving colleague, who immediately excused himself to the john, which was just off of this conference room. There, the poor interviewee went on to relate, he suffered "the longest, loudest and smelliest bowel movement in the history of the universe." No one else in the room seemed to notice, and the poor interviewee had to fight to keep his composure.

He wasn't offered the job, and maintains to this day that NOT getting the job was a true blessing. . .

[The Mad Hatter]

I can just see the thread title now.... "Wistful memories of farts of yore."

[James Harvey]

Anychance we can get back on subject? We really had something going until the topic strayed...

[Crazy8s]

I'll take us back thru the fumes to the smoke--

I believe it was DG who posted that it is up to parents to make sure kids don't stray into things like smoking (drugs, sex, etc. could be added). Another poster said the desire to partake in such activities was based on peers, parents and personality. I know from experience that parents run at the very bottem of that list. Kids are going to do what their friends do, especially if their personalities lean toward risk taking.

I don't think that Nick Fury or Ben Grimm chomping on a cigar in a comic is going to influence young readers one way or another. If you'll notice, far more comic characters smoke cigars than cigarettes, which have always had more of a taboo against them. Smoking has not been heavily depicted in most of Marvel's comics and hasn't been presented as an activity the majority of characters partake in. The cigar appears to be more for effect and character definition than anything else.

On the other hand, I do believe that when the public sees something presented through media as common place, they accept it as common place and are more likely to incorporate it into their lifestyle. Sadly, the media does influence us all.

[Calhoun07]

Sorry, I guess the two subjects went hand in hand! When I was a kid, whenever I would let a good smelly one go, or one of our dogs would, my mom would see fit to light up a cigarette to get rid of the smell. And you know, it worked every time! So for that complaint that the smell was still in the room three hours later... all they had to do was light a match!


Getting back to the topic on hand, I do have to say that this really sullies my impressions of Marvel now. I was really happy with the direction they were taking, then this. I am looking to cut my comic book purchasing in half, as my home taping hobby is something I really want to develop much more and I want to make that my primary hobby and my job away from my job, and something's gotta go, and I am more inclined to drop somebody who censors like this. I have yet to decide what I want to do just yet, but hey, who can picture the Thing without his cigar? It is his character! I think that if they take away from the characters, I am just not as interested in their comics as much anymore.

[Calhoun07]

Originally posted by Keith
I was at DragonCon a few weeks back and sat in on a panel with Paul Jenkins in it where he brought up the new no smoking policy. From what he said, Quesada had some personal reasons to set this standard - one of his relatives had recently died from lung cancer. He also said that the cigarettes and cigars had turned into a kind of crutch for the writers. There was a distinction between their regular comics and the more adult oriented lines (such as MAX). Smoking will definitely be allowed in the MAX series from what Jenkins said.


I quoted this from the DVD board for the relevance to this thread....I am sorry for Quesada's loss, but that strikes me as the most radical response to his loss I can ever imagine. Did his relative start smoking because they saw it in a comic book? Even if they did, to force this upon the entire line of Marvel Comics strikes me as inappropriate. Marvel is not a vehicle for Quesada's personal views, even if he is EIC. I think it is a mistake for him to react this way and to such an extreme way.

[Frozen]

I've been watching Formula One Grand Prix racing since I was 15, and you can't move in F1 for cigarette advertising - but I've never smoked. I've loved Nick Fury for years, but again, I'll never touch a cigar. To insinuate that I would is insulting - I was a teeny when I was first exposed to Fury and F1 (the perfect target audience, it appears), but for every incentive to smoke I saw, I saw three good reasons not to. The horrors of smoking have been very well exposed over the last two decades - surely their can be NOBODY in the world who's gonna see these comics who doesn't know smoking kills, can there?

That said, I DO sympathise with Quesada's loss - my Grandfather died of cancer last year, but surely donating money to cancer research would be a better way to combat the 'evils' of smoking rather than this lame, misguided and ill-received gesture.

And another thing - how can having a character smoke be regarded as a "crutch". Another facet to a character I'll grant you - but a "crutch"...?

[James Harvey]

I agree there? The "crutch" excuse doesn't seem...well...reasonable. Smoking does not define a person or provide them with characteristics. Just becuase a person smokes doesn't make them mysterious or evil. Then again, in mos tmovies or show sor whatever, that is the image they are given. And with only villians allowed to smoke now, that is what we'll continue to see. I just think this is a move that wasn't exactly entriely thought out.

[Keith]

I agree that this does go against Marvel's recent "no code" stance - why go through the trouble of dropping the code when you are going to police yourself TOUGHER than the CCA ever did! COUGH*PR MOVE*COUGH

As far as Quesada's loss...I may have been slightly off. I think I remember Jenkins saying that it was one of Joe Q's relatives who passed away, but it could have been someone else that he was close to - regardless, the motive was the same.

Jenkins said he found out about this policy after turning in a story (I don't recall what title it was for) where he had a private eye who was trying to quit drinking - he would leave a bottle sitting on his desk, to torture himself in a way. Instead of drinking, the guy starts smoking like crazy. Needless to say, this policy will end up changing this story completely.

If I would have known that this was going to be such a hot topic, I would have taken notes or something!

Totally off topic - but if you ever go to a con and Paul Jenkins is there doing panels - go to them. The guy is funny as .... well, you know and he knows how to spin quite a yarn. Oh yeah - he's Welsh, so you've got that unique accent going on. Just thought I'd throw that in there. Talk amongst yaselves now.

[Joe Tully]

Now that I've heard the reasoning behind it, I'm hoping that this is something that won't be around for too long. Maybe once Quesada gets over his loss, he'll listen to arguments from the writers and realize that this isn't the greatest move.

In response to calhoun...I've pretty much given up comics. The prices are just getting too high, and it's hard to pick up just a couple of issues, get a full story, and understand everything that's going on. If I buy any, it's usually back issues. They're cheaper and I have a better idea of what I want or don't want.

[Calhoun07]

Originally posted by Joe Tully
In response to calhoun...I've pretty much given up comics. The prices are just getting too high, and it's hard to pick up just a couple of issues, get a full story, and understand everything that's going on. If I buy any, it's usually back issues. They're cheaper and I have a better idea of what I want or don't want.

I am really only ordering from Westfield at this point to keep getting Cerebus, which I swear I will get unti it ends with issue 300. The other stuff is just stuff to read in my spare time. After Cerebus is done, I wonder what will happen to my desire to collect at all. Before I really got back into collecting comic books, the occasional trade paperback was enough to tide me over. But it's just getting more and more expesnive, and it doesn't look like the cost of living is going to go down anytime soon, so something's gotta give! You'd think Quesada would realize what a tightly competitive market comics are and not toy around with the characters like this.

[kiddiesunshine]

what's this world coming to? pretty soon all comics will involve skipping in flowery fields! big mistake , marvel.

[Calhoun07]

I doubt all comics will follow this suit. Who would try to follow Marvel's lead in this?

[James Harvey]

I think this is a mix of emtions and a chance to get Marvel some more PR as being a "market leader" and setting examples and all that baloney.

[JLU Dude]

It doesn't matter what the reasons are, as I said earlier, by doing this move and the move away from the CCA, Marvel is shooting itslef in the foot. BTW, with the WTC having been destroyed, Sony is removing and/or altering scenes that contain the WTC in the Spider-Man movie.