A puzzling hypothetical

[Bartak123]

Say you had a choice between doing two things. You know which decision is the correct one and which is the wrong one. What path do you choose, the correct path or the wrong path. The choice will not affect you in any way or anyone else. What is your decision, to do the correct thing or wrong thing. Explain your answer.

[Calhoun07]

Uh, did you have something more specific in mind?

[DJ Raza]

{Uh, did you have something more specific in mind?}

Yeah, you're leaving this question in quite a vast area. Frankly, it doesn't make a lot of sense.

It'd be easier to understand if you gave a few more details and such. Like a similar scenario or situation using characters or conflicts.

[DJ Raza]

That's still quite vast, but ok... I'll give it a shot.

It actually depends on the situation. I'd take the correct path more than likely because even though it doesn't affect me, someone else could benefit from it. On the other hand though, if the correct way (even though its correct) means someone else suffers, I'd probably take the wrong path because I'm unaffected by either path. This way I wouldn't come across a side-effect of feeling guilty.

[The Detective]

Um, the correct one. If it doesn't affect me or any else, why does it even matter?

[Drachentöter]

I wouldn't choose either if I could help it.

There is no such thing as a decision that doesn't affect you and who's to say what's "correct" anyway? And if the choices are this obscure, why would I care?

Imagine if the game show host said,

"Getting the prize behind door number one is good and getting the prize behind door number two is bad. It doesn't really matter which one you choose because the prize isn't important enough to change your life or anyone else's."

Wait, doesn't that mean both are neutral choices? Therefore, if it doesn't affect anyone or yourself, there's no way to call it "right" and "wrong."

I don't understand your logic at all.

[James]

Originally posted by Bartak123
Say you had a choice between doing two things. You know which decision is the correct one and which is the wrong one. What path do you choose, the correct path or the wrong path. The choice will not affect you in any way or anyone else. What is your decision, to do the correct thing or wrong thing. Explain your answer.

Hmm, it really depends on the circumstances. I would go for the one that I think would be correct for me, not necessarily for someone else, so it's subjective like good and evil *ducks* to what you perceive as correct and what someone else perceives as correct. The 'wrong' thing for you, is clearly a potential 'correct' thing for you, but the wrong thing for someone else. So inevitably it comes down to who do you live your life by? Yourself or for other people?

[Bartak123]

Originally posted by VortexInfinite
I wouldn't choose either if I could help it.

There is no such thing as a decision that doesn't affect you and who's to say what's "correct" anyway? And if the choices are this obscure, why would I care?

Imagine if the game show host said,

"Getting the prize behind door number one is good and getting the prize behind door number two is bad. It doesn't really matter which one you choose because the prize isn't important enough to change your life or anyone else's."

Wait, doesn't that mean both are neutral choices? Therefore, if it doesn't affect anyone or yourself, there's no way to call it "right" and "wrong."

I don't understand your logic at all.

I am trying to find what our motivation is. Normally a person would say they would do the correct choice. But why? Why would you do the correct thing.

[Clayface]

Originally posted by Bartak123
I am trying to find what our motivation is. Normally a person would say they would do the correct choice. But why? Why would you do the correct thing.


To make the world a better place. At least, that's my answer.

[Terminatah]

I don't make choices unless I know what they are.

-Terminatah

[Shnay]

Originally posted by Bartak123
I am trying to find what our motivation is. Normally a person would say they would do the correct choice. But why? Why would you do the correct thing.

Well, as Barb said, the "correct" answer would be subject to your own judgement. So, if there are no consequences and one "path" doesn't take more effort than the other, everyone would naturally do what they feel is "correct." Also, correct doesn't neccessarily mean "right" or "just." It just means what you feel is best.

So, in a situation like this, you really couldn't come out with anything but the "correct" answer...unless you have some kind of self-destructive complex, or something.

[Bartak123]

IT BEGIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNNNSSSSSSSS
SJJ look what you have done!!!!!!!

:sigh: correct and wrong are not relativist. 1 + 1 = 2, 1 + 1 is not 3. The first one is correct the second one is wrong. Say you had a decision as black and white as that.

[Drachentöter]

I am trying to find what our motivation is. Normally a person would say they would do the correct choice. But why? Why would you do the correct thing.

I'm just not all that fond of mind games. I would've answered more suitably to the statement above better in the first place.

My motivation behind making choices is to do something to advance myself and my success. For the most part.

Call it selfish, but that's just how I look at things. Darwinism, natural progression. Now, that doesn't mean that I don't care about my peers and my society. It just means that I will avoid most situations in which odds are I will come out the loser.

And my ambitions are not such that they hurt other people. Lending a friend a couple of bucks doesn't interfere with my survival or my happiness. Comforting a friend doesn't hurt me.
So, I don't think I'm a bad person, but I'm definitely not completely selfless.

I'll try to fill in the blanks you've placed.

I've forgotten my lunch and I am hungry. Someone offers me two pieces of food. One is a simple piece of bread. The other is a chocolate donut. The bread has not been claimed by an owner. The donut belongs to a person I've never met before. If I eat the donut, I am guaranteed the person will never find out. If I eat the bread, I will be equally satisfied hunger-wise.

If I weren't confined to the rules of your little game, I'd grab the donut, tell the rightful owner what happened and then ask if I could have the donut anyway. Or I wouldn't even choose because I don't trust too many people who offer me food.

If I had to choose...

I'd eat the donut. How do I know that the bread isn't someone's either? It's just a donut and the person would never know. What's the harm?

But it's just a meaningless predicament. It doesn't say much about your character to me. When your decisions actually have an impact worth measuring, THAT'S when it matters.

I must have contradicted myself five times above. So be it. Confront me with a problem that has benefits and advantages, then you'll get an interesting answer.

[czyznyck99]

I'd pick the wrong one, especially if it was of no real consequence. Defining what is correct or incorrect is a subject of societal relativity anyway. Does it really matter which one you pick? Why should anyone care? You certainly have no reason to feel guilty about either choice. Honestly, it's harder to flip a coin than to make a decision like this, because with a coin flip you have less control.

Later.

[James]

Originally posted by Bartak123
IT BEGIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNNNSSSSSSSS
SJJ look what you have done!!!!!!!

:sigh: correct and wrong are not relativist. 1 + 1 = 2, 1 + 1 is not 3. The first one is correct the second one is wrong. Say you had a decision as black and white as that.

LMAO. I hope you're not too offended Barb having my post being mistaken as yours!! Honestly, it's not even the same characters! You don't see people mixing up the various Batman avatars! *giggle*

*takes of wig and Nightwing top and runs off*

[Shnay]

Originally posted by SJJ
LMAO. I hope you're not too offended Barb having my post being mistaken as yours!! Honestly, it's not even the same characters! You don't see people mixing up the various Batman avatars! *giggle*

*takes of wig and Nightwing top and runs off*

Oh, I can never keep you two crazy kids straight anymore. Ahh...*mumble, mumble...*

:sigh: correct and wrong are not relativist. 1 + 1 = 2, 1 + 1 is not 3. The first one is correct the second one is wrong. Say you had a decision as black and white as that.

With this factored in...the decision doesn't seem to, well, matter at all. I can't really understand why someone would say they would do something "wrong" if it had no consequences and no room for interpretation. Or, for that matter, how something could be "wrong" if it didn't effect anything. I think conversations like this work much better with more specific perimeters set.

[Danielle]

Wuh-oh. Long opinion ahead. Proceed with caution.

Black and white? You're saying there's such a clear distinction between good and bad, so clear that it seems like black and white?

...............are you sure you're talking about good and bad?

When the distinction is so clear, then it isn't about good and bad anymore. When it's so obvious, you don't even turn towards or acknowledge the "black". It's false. It doesn't exist....at least not permanently. Such a decision would be between truth and falsehood. If one chose the falsehood, they'd be acknowledging something which has basically no existance, making them a hypocrite.

If you're talking about good and bad, that means the choice isn't so clear. You're acknowledging the bad, giving it means to exist. Actually, the very fact that you acknowledge it shows that it must have some level of challenge about it; there must be something about it that seems good, or else it would simply be "false", and you wouldn't be giving it a second glance.

Also, it can't really "not affect anyone". If you do bad, and you KNOW you do bad, then there's usually a heavy amount of guilt on your conscience. And besides, if it really didn't affect anyone, what about it would be considered "bad"?

[Drachentöter]

And I give the award for "best use of common sense in the face of confusion" to Danielle. Thank you for saying what was so true.

Unless, of course, you want to contest what is true or not... :p

[Bartak123]

Originally posted by Danielle
Wuh-oh. Long opinion ahead. Proceed with caution.

Black and white? You're saying there's such a clear distinction between good and bad, so clear that it seems like black and white?

...............are you sure you're talking about good and bad?

When the distinction is so clear, then it isn't about good and bad anymore. When it's so obvious, you don't even turn towards or acknowledge the "black". It's false. It doesn't exist....at least not permanently. Such a decision would be between truth and falsehood. If one chose the falsehood, they'd be acknowledging something which has basically no existance, making them a hypocrite.

If you're talking about good and bad, that means the choice isn't so clear. You're acknowledging the bad, giving it means to exist. Actually, the very fact that you acknowledge it shows that it must have some level of challenge about it; there must be something about it that seems good, or else it would simply be "false", and you wouldn't be giving it a second glance.

Also, it can't really "not affect anyone". If you do bad, and you KNOW you do bad, then there's usually a heavy amount of guilt on your conscience. And besides, if it really didn't affect anyone, what about it would be considered "bad"?

I'm not talking about good and evil. I am talking about the decision between the truth and falsehood. Why can't we choose falsehood, so what if I'm a hypocrite.

[Danielle]

Originally posted by VortexInfinite
And I give the award for "best use of common sense in the face of confusion" to Danielle. Thank you for saying what was so true.

Unless, of course, you want to contest what is true or not... :p

*gasp!* Oh, thank you! And I wanna thank my mom and my dad and my uncle Billy Bob and my cousin Ashley and my hairstylist Jackie and my cat and my fish's first cousin's stepbrother's lawyer's mother's third cousin twice removed, and....{etc., etc.} :p And.......uh........no comment. :D

Bartak: If you're a hypocrite, how can I believe you're a hypocrite? ;) For most people, choosing to be a hypocrite would in it of itself be "black" or false (as in, they wouldn't dream of doing it). They'd also be sort of making themselves false, since no one really pays attention to them anymore. :D Say someone were to come up to you and tell you that if you could burn yourself up and rise again from the ashes, they'd give you twenty cents. Would you attempt it? What if they gave you twenty million dollars, would you try it then?
Or even with something simple, something that's not lethal: what if he said, "If you fly twice around that tree over there, I'll give you twenty million dollars"? Would you do it? Most people would say no. There's no point to it, so why bother doing it? If there's no point or benefit from going out of your way to do something false, then why bother?

[Bartak123]

Originally posted by Danielle
*gasp!* Oh, thank you! And I wanna thank my mom and my dad and my uncle Billy Bob and my cousin Ashley and my hairstylist Jackie and my cat and my fish's first cousin's stepbrother's lawyer's mother's third cousin twice removed, and....{etc., etc.} :p And.......uh........no comment. :D

Bartak: If you're a hypocrite, how can I believe you're a hypocrite? ;) For most people, choosing to be a hypocrite would in it of itself be "black" or false (as in, they wouldn't dream of doing it). They'd also be sort of making themselves false, since no one really pays attention to them anymore. :D Say someone were to come up to you and tell you that if you could burn yourself up and rise again from the ashes, they'd give you twenty cents. Would you attempt it? What if they gave you twenty million dollars, would you try it then?
Or even with something simple, something that's not lethal: what if he said, "If you fly twice around that tree over there, I'll give you twenty million dollars"? Would you do it? Most people would say no. There's no point to it, so why bother doing it? If there's no point or benefit from going out of your way to do something false, then why bother?

why not bother?
If there is no benefit in choosing what is correct then why should I choose that.

[EightOh]

I would... go get something to drink and check out the Toon Zone forums, since the "correct" and "incorrect" answers don't seem to mean anything at all.

[cross blues]

I would just do whatever was easier, because then it WOULD affect me in a positive way.

[Magwheel]

You can only say it "wouldn't affect you in any way," if you are speaking of external consequences. There's the matter of living with your choices, which might be entirely internal.

Example situation: Let's say you're driving on the street. No other cars or people around, and lighting is suffiecient. Driving 2 km/h. You gonna signal for a turn? You gonna stop where required by law? Gonna wear your seat-belt? If you're concerned with the formation of good habits and pure honesty with or without reward/punishment, I'd take a *wild* guess that you're gonna do what the law requires/what common sense suggests. You're gonna get safely from point A to point B either way. What you do does indeed indicate something about your character, or at least your mood or state of mind at the time.

Observation: Purposefully doing/resigning to believe what is not "correct" or truthful can prove harmful to the mind. As with 1+1=3. I have a right to believe that, and let's say there are no immediate, direct, consequences. But I also have reason to fear that if I convince myself that something incorrect is, in fact, incorrect, I'm just asking to make myself schizophrenic (essentially, a person split from reality). So even that dicision does have an affect on a person.

But I think this partially explains some of our motivation. It's a matter or psychological/mental/intellectual integrity. Yes/no?

[Bartak123]

Originally posted by Magwheel
You can only say it "wouldn't affect you in any way," if you are speaking of external consequences. There's the matter of living with your choices, which might be entirely internal.

Example situation: Let's say you're driving on the street. No other cars or people around, and lighting is suffiecient. Driving 2 km/h. You gonna signal for a turn? You gonna stop where required by law? Gonna wear your seat-belt? If you're concerned with the formation of good habits and pure honesty with or without reward/punishment, I'd take a *wild* guess that you're gonna do what the law requires/what common sense suggests. You're gonna get safely from point A to point B either way. What you do does indeed indicate something about your character, or at least your mood or state of mind at the time.

Observation: Purposefully doing/resigning to believe what is not "correct" or truthful can prove harmful to the mind. As with 1+1=3. I have a right to believe that, and let's say there are no immediate, direct, consequences. But I also have reason to fear that if I convince myself that something incorrect is, in fact, incorrect, I'm just asking to make myself schizophrenic (essentially, a person split from reality). So even that dicision does have an affect on a person.

But I think this partially explains some of our motivation. It's a matter or psychological/mental/intellectual integrity. Yes/no?

Yes...my answer to this question is similar to yours. We are logical beings. We cannot function without our logic. Therefore in a situation where we know the correct answer we must always choose the correct answer, otherwise we unravel, we can no longer make sense of anything.

[Drachentöter]

Yes...my answer to this question is similar to yours. We are logical beings. We cannot function without our logic. Therefore in a situation where we know the correct answer we must always choose the correct answer, otherwise we unravel, we can no longer make sense of anything.

Isn't this happening worldwide anyway? Or at least the early symptons?

[Magwheel]

Originally posted by Magwheel
But I also have reason to fear that if I convince myself that something incorrect is, in fact, incorrect, I'm just asking to make myself schizophrenic (essentially, a person split from reality). So even that dicision does have an affect on a person.

the bold part should include one correct and one incorrect.

Way to pull a Magwheel, Magwheel :p

[Bartak123]

Originally posted by VortexInfinite
Isn't this happening worldwide anyway? Or at least the early symptons?

Well maybe thats why the world is such a bad place ;). We stopped thinking. Or maybe we never really thought in the first place