Is Cartoon Network going to pull a Nick?

[The Jinjo]

A long time ago, around 1991, Nicktoons were great. They kept being good until about 1996. Every once and a while you'll get a good show, but it's always overlooked (Zim or Angry Beavers anyone?) Now the network is filling with terrible shows (except Bobpants Spongesquare).
I wonder if it will happen to CN. Dexter was great. Cow and CHicken and Johnny Bravo were good too. Powerpuffs, Eds, Courage, all great. But now we enter a new time. Cartoon Network gives us Sheep and cancells it in 2 seasons. Grim and Evil will also be cancelled in 2 seasons. Robot Jones is good, but I can't imagine it lasting that long. Time Squad is cancelled after 1 season. In my opinon, Cartoon Newtork isn't going to survive as easily as it has once Courage, Ed Edd n Eddy, Dexter, and Powerpuff girls are done. And from the looks of things, we've only got about 2 years and then all 4 of these shows will be gone. So in short, CN is making alot of new stuff, cancelling it quick, and alot of the stuff isnt that great. So, will CN ever find any more staple shows? Or will it thrive off it's old hits? Only time will tell, but in my opinion, Cartoon Newwork hasn't found a true keeper since Courage in late 1999.

[Ed man]

Time Squad would have kept going. CN didnt cancel it. Time Squad had tons of huge internal problems and was too much of a hassle, so it was canceled by the creator.

Grim and Evil is going away in 2 seasons? I don't remember any one saying anything about that...I think Grim & Evil will be going for alot longer than that...

I think CN is going nowhere but uphill. With Adult Swim and Toonami getting better and better, and new Cartoon Cartoons on there way, I think CN will stay for a long time.

CN lets people pick which Premiere Premiere becomes a series (last year and the year before anyway) So that proves that CN listens to the public. Nick does whatever the heck it wants too and doesnt give a squat what people think. They put on crap saying "Yo!, Little Home-dogs will watch dis cuz it's hip! yo! they try and be cool and because of this, everything turns out like crap. CN is NOT like that.

[Mojo_Jojo]

I love Cartoon Cartoons! The only thing I don't like is the schedule. I'm upset with the programming. Some Cartoon Cartoons play 4 times a day and some don't. I think that the Cartoon Cartoons could be shown once or twice at a reasonable time. How about the old Hanna Barbara cartoons? Tom & Jerry, The Flintstones, The Flintstones Kids, The Jetsons, Auggie Doggie, Atom Ant, Top Cat, Yogi Bear, and the rest. People are like I'm so glad that Scooby Doo is getting replaced by a cartoon cartoon this fall or isn't shown as much! But what if this keeps going on- will there be any older Hanna Barbara shows on anymore?! Does anyone care? I have to admit I like Cartoon Network's original programming. But does have to be repeats or shown more than once? I do wish that TBS and TNT would still play Hanna Barbara Shows.

[czyznyck99]

CN isn't held in the bounds of airing live-action television like Nick is. As long as they keep sending out new eps, they will do fine. As far as the cartoon cartoons, I think they are going down a little down. The new eps this summer helped, but I hope their next cartoon cartoon premiere is a BIG one.

Later.

[BlackCat]

I'm not sure how long CN is going to go with the majority of their main programming being Cartoon Cartoons. I don't really like half of them. They need to get something new and orginal on that isn't a Cartoon Cartoon or an Adult Swim/Toonami program.

[The Jinjo]

I'm not saying Cartoon Network is bad, I'm saying that they need better new stuff. This summer was great, because it showed lots of new stuff, and most of it was good. I'm a little upset with recent stuff, like new dexter, Time Squad, Robot Jones, and Kids next door looks awful so far(i never liked pepper ann, and some people who work on kids next door used to work on perrer ann). Cartoon Network does listen to it's viewers, and i like that. They are nowhere like Nick..... yet. All I know is cartoon network needs to get some better stuff to air, and some better schedueling. (more old stuff and less cartoon cartoons. we're in rerun trouble! I counted how many times Courage VS Mecha Courage/The Record Deal has been on, and believe it or not, I've counted 19 times. thats overdoing it since it aired less than a year ago)

[Jazman]

I think CN is doing fine now. It's kinda like a rollar coaster. It has it's ups and downs. Right now CN might be between on a hill at the bottom (a good bottom). The New are never going to replace the old and that's a small problem. Yes in 3 or 4 years from now, Dexter, PPG, Ed's, and Courage will all be gone (well, just shown at wierd times like C&C. It doesn't really mean that it's going to pull a Nick. It happened at Nick too. The biggest ones such as Rugrats and Angry Beavers were big in the Early 90's. Then we got these other ones like Cat Dog and others that aren't that great. Then Boom! A sudden hit with an unexpected creation. Who would have thought Spongebob would last this long. ( Sure as heck didn't) They got some okay ones like Oddparents and Zim and some really bad ones like Chalk Zone or whatever it's called. CN will get a really big Hit after PPG, Eds, Dexter and Courage are just memories in CN's hallway.
As far as The whole channel of CC's...not just that, I think the trend is for eventually to have nothing on CN but original shows and transfer the others like Scooby and the rest to Boomerang. Atleast that's how I see it in about 10 years. Kind of like what Disney has done. All the show's and toons from the early 90's used to play non stop on Disney, then came all these movies, original shows like Lizzy and new cartoons and the old ones now show round the clock on Toon. It's not a bad thing really, just progress.
My Two cents.

[Yuss]

Cartoon Network is a) Creating good shows and b) Creating new episodes of said shows. Whether or not they're producing bad shows isn't the point. Right now, they're fulfilling their purpose as a network, and that's a thousand times more than can be, or will ever be, said about Nickelodeon. Everything has its ups and downs, and most networks aren't at their strong point during the summer anyway.

They've done three (?) Big Picks so far, and the series produced from them are just not terrible. Nickelodeon's ripping off this idea and producing new shows based on old and unfunny shorts, so you can see how NICK has reached a level that CN could not sink to even if they tried. (I'd like NICK to make a Sniz & Fondue series. Of course, they'd cancel it instantly, but that's not the point. S&F rocked.)

~B+:

[The Jinjo]

if they made sniz and fondue, that would be great. did you know Stretch Films (the Courage guys) made that segment of Kablam? Check out the official site. I think Nick should have Sunday afternoons full of shows like Rocko,Ren and Stimpy, Angry Beavers, the good old stuff. Then they'd give CN something to worry about. I wonder why cow and chicken is stil on, do the reruns do that well?

[CookieS]

The fact that you're all here shows that Cartoon Network is doing something right. Let me explain the situation a little bit. Both CN and Nick have a history of doing a 52 episode maxinum run. With the few exceptions of Dexter and Powerpuff Girls, Cartoon Network has stopped their other cartoons at 52. Why? When you think about it, 52 is almost 4-5 years of a show. That's a pretty long run for a cartoon series.

I personally think that in order to have a hit, you're going to have a lot of misses. Ideas for a series sometimes look great on paper, and the staff can be the best, but its only the end product that gets judged. It comes down to a point where a series can either get more episodes or the money can be used for a new series. Sometimes the new series is just more of an investment because its new-ness is an attraction for fans.

[auto]

I hope nothing along the lines of that will happen but, i think it is a posibility. Being, the fact that many of the shows are now out of production and every episode was aired over Cartoon Cartoon Summer I'm not sure if it will stay like this forever. It seems most of the new series are missing the charm of the other ones and get stale after the first airing. I hope, CN will not evolve into another Nick but, as they say "Every good empire falls at some point".

[Eddy_Girly]

I hope that the Cartoon Cartoons won't end up as (how Jazman said) CN's memory hallway. :( Although it might be a possiblility, which I really hope not!

I think that CN might think different that what Nick did; removing the best shows, and replacing them with (how should I put this) "un-succeeding" shows. I used to like Nick classics like Rocko's Modern Life, Ren & Stimpy, and KaBlam!, but now, I hardly watch Nick (I only watch Invader ZIM and Hey Arnold! now); I don't like much of Nick nowadays (I can't stand Butt Ugly Martians).

Maybe Nick will divide their time slots (like they have Boomerang every weekend night - great for some of their top classics from the earlier days of CN). A bit organized, I might add. That's one reason why I like CN more than Nick, BTW.

As for Nick, they seem to be "scattering the classics with their later shows, which makes it hard to know when which is on. Plus, they seem to run so many promos like Slime Time Live (which didn't seem to last too long) and Nick Toon Summer Splash (consuming most of the day!). Nick never seemed to hang on to shows for long (like Figure It Out; that seemed to last for hardly a year!).

Nick has also been having add-ons; like Teen-Nick. Cartoon Network took a higher step, adding Adult Swim, which, in my opinion, is better than Teen Nick (AS has more cartoons well-fitted to the category than Teen Nick has with teen shows).

But, like people said, those are my two cents in this matter.

[RegulaOne]

How dare you put bad Mojo-Jo-Jo on the CN. Its the best thing since sliced bread.

[Nin-Nin69]

Dexter's Lab is a good comparison to Ren and Stimpy. It was good until they let someone else make the show. ;)

[Eddy_Girly]

Originally posted by RegulaOne
How dare you put bad Mojo-Jo-Jo on the CN. Its the best thing since sliced bread.

And the Eds are the best thing since buttered toast. LOL! Get it?

[RegulaOne]

yeah i get it...

[Mojo_Jojo]

I was also a big fan of Nicktoons until the good ones got replaced. I remember watching Rocko's Modern Life(which came on last year at 6:30am eastern, which got canceled again), Ren & Stimpy(which played on MTV years back & VH-1; new & old episodes will air uncut on TNN), Doug, Angry Beavers, KaBlam! (which had a spin-off (guess you could say) with Action League Now!, Aah! Real Monsters (which hasn't aired in a while.) Well I think that's most of them. What can you say though? Doesn't everyone's favorite cartoons can't canceled? It would be nice if cartoons like this could stay a long like Tom & Jerrry, Scooby-Doo, Bugs Bunny, and the rest of the Hanna-Barbara classics so we could watch with our kids............... or grandkids (LOL!) Well, I'm glad Rugrats are still there! The only recent nicktoons I like are As Told By Ginger and Pelswick. I do like Hey Arnold! Lately, I watch Cartoon Network more than Toon Disney or Nickelodeon now that I have it in my basic channel line-up on cable. What is up with that Nicktoon Butt Ugly Martians? What on earth were they thinking?!

[The Jinjo]

u...like......ginger? well, i find it weird, but I respect your opinion.

[Mojo_Jojo]

Originally posted by The Jinjo
u...like......ginger? well, i find it weird, but I respect your opinion.

Oh, thanks so much! :rolleyes: Just Joking!
Yes, I do. What's so wrong about As Told By Ginger? It's not as bad as some cartoons that I won't mention!

[Kuro-Neko]

Just one thing I have to say: WHY DID FRIKIN NICK HAVE TO CANCEL ZIM!!!!!???? :mad: :mad: :mad: :confused:

[spectre316]

Dexter's Lab is a good comparison to Ren and Stimpy. It was good until they let someone else make the show.

The new Dexter eps. are nowhere as bad as the newest R & S episodes that aired on Nick awhile ago. R & S just became weird, way too gross, and was just all around awkward; basically none of the charm and actual odd humor that the first season had in spades.

The new Dexter's lab episodes -- yes, everyone seems to hate them -- but what's so bad? Dexter's voice... it's just a bit higher. Who cares if the artwork is different -- it's not bad in anyway. The only thing that matters is if the characterizations don't change too much, and the old humor keeps intact. The new episodes fare pretty well in those areas. Not in the most perfect sense, but pretty well nonetheless.

[Yuss]

I agree with Spectre on the new Dexter's Lab episodes. No comment on Ren & Stimpy, I hate that show...

~B+:

[spectre316]

Only the episodes from '95? ...sigh. That deserves an official :( .

Where did you get this information anyway?

[Allen's Nickname.]

First of all the 95 up thing is wrong. They're playing all of the old eps uncut and some new eps. (From Spumco.) TNN is an MTV network, so they've allways had the rights to Ren and Stimpy.

[Mojo_Jojo]

Originally posted by spectre316
Only the episodes from '95? ...sigh. That deserves an official :( .

Where did you get this information anyway?

If anyone who wants to know how they got 1995, it was me. I typed it wrong. It was episodes ending from 1995. Anyway, here is my source to say it's official:

REN & STIMPY, UNCUT
Classic Cartoon Gets a New Life on TNN

By J. Max Robins(TV GUIDE)


The Ren & Stimpy Show, the hit cartoon that helped put Nickelodeon on the map, is going back into production, according to industry sources. TNN has ordered new episodes of the adventures of Ren, a churlish Chihuahua, and Stimpy, his naive feline friend. In addition, TNN has obtained rights to 52 episodes of the show that ran from 1991 to 1995.

To create the new episodes, TNN is expected to bring back series creator John Kricfalusi, whose sophisticated animation broke new ground — and whose gross-out humor predates Comedy Central's South Park. Kricfalusi had an acrimonious split from Nickelodeon in 1992 after clashing with management about the cartoon's content. (The network kept the show because Kricfalusi had sold it the characters.) The episode that reportedly put Nickelodeon brass over the edge — they refused to run it — was entitled "Man's Best Friend." A cult classic in the animation underground, "Man's Best Friend" introduces the character George Liquor, who submits Ren and Stimpy to a sadistic training course, which ends when Ren beats George to a pulp.

"It's one of the most violent and hilarious things ever done," says Billy West, the voice of Stimpy as well as Ren for a time (Kricfalusi did the Chihuahua's voice before he left the show.) "Now that the show's on a channel not aimed at kids, it may finally be seen."

According to TNN sources, the network plans to run "Man's Best Friend" as well as restore deleted footage into other Ren & Stimpy originals. As for Kricfalusi, a TNN spokeswoman confirmed that the network "was in discussions" with him about doing new episodes but would not discuss any of the details. Kricfalusi declined comment.

TNN has chosen Ren & Stimpy as the anchor of a prime-time animation block slated to launch in early 2003. Among the other cartoons that are likely to join it: Gary the Rat, about a lawyer who is turned into a 6-foot rodent, and Stan Lee's Stripperella, whose title character is a stripper who becomes a superhero in the after-hours. Frasier's Kelsey Grammer will voice the rat. Pamela Anderson will bring the stripper to, um, life.

TNN's interest in animation is part of an evolution that began in 2000, when Viacom took control of the channel and changed its name from the Nashville Network, programming country-music videos and Hee Haw reruns, to the National Network, showing everything from Star Trek: The Next Generation reruns to the WWE.

"We're the network of the WWE," says a TNN insider. "So why not Stripperella and Ren & Stimpy uncensored?"

[Waggytoon]

I will let you all know something really important. Once "Powerpuff Girls" fades out of CN's lineup, "Cartoon Cartoons" are history plain and simple.
Meanwhile, Nickelodeon has ripped off its viewers 36 times so far with their "Summer Pick-Nick" balloting. You heard right! Nick jerked its fans when, in its "Summer Pick-Nick" segment where CatDog was a Nominee/WINNER, they aired a jerk show that was NOT to air whatsoever!!
And by the way, I'm still waiting for Nick to finally get their act together and create a spinoff series for legendary yellow-bellied whipporwill Lola Caricola! She has potential to give Nick it's biggest success in history- if they can start production on it like they should.
Who cares about those other jerk toons on Nick?? Zim and the Beavers do not fit that disastrous list, they are quality series, like CatDog's eps featuring at least one appearance of Lola!

Face it, all three main networks of animation are slumping. In fact, what will become of Toon Disney fans if that network pulls their fab four of the past decade from their schedule. I refer to "Rescue Rangers", "TaleSpin" (which hasn't been on a regular basis since that unfortunate day whose anniversary is coming- the less about that the better.), "Timon & Pumbaa", and "Dalmatians"! They already yanked "Raw Toonage", and that series would have celebrated its 10th Anniversary next month.

Soon, about the only great channel worth watching- if it was on many of the cable systems, that is- would be Boomerang! And perhaps even Nicktoons TV, if anyone could get it around here!!
It may be animation fans' version of 'Zoid Eve'- or some other chaotic disaster- drawing nearer than what the networks are actually anticipating, more or less. Unless some magical force can rejuvinate those networks into coming up with suitable performances that may bring them the ratings they need.

They won't get any big ratings Labor Day, not with their awful marathon plans. :( :eek: :wakko:

[Spike Mcdougal]

They won't get any big ratings Labor Day, not with their awful marathon plans.

There's always marathons on Labor Day

[Animeboy99]

Guys, I'm new to the boards, but I gotta tell ya, I try to AVOID NickToons like the plague...all except "Fairly OddParents"...THAT one I like....but because of an 11 year old daughter, I kinda have to watch sometimes....

Cartoon Network has been a staple in our house for 6 or 7 years, and I have seen the evolution of the various Cartoon Cartoons...here is my 2 cents...

Cow and Chicken--too much like Ren and Stimpy...gross outs make up the vast majority of their humor...not my cup o' tea

I.M. Weasel--see above, although I like Michael Dorn (boy, has HIS career run the gamut...from Chips to Weasel to Worf...Wow)

Dexter---old ones, great...new ones---ehhh...jury's still out...I miss Christine Cavanaugh.

PPG...nuff said, although I think it will be a LONGGGGG while before we see any new episodes that aren't full length...and darn all of you who DIDN'T go see the movie!...lol

Time Squad...good stuff, need more new episodes

Ed, Edd and Eddy---didn't care for it at first, but it has grown on me...

Sheep in the Big City...the less said about this, the better...just not good art, good stories, just dumb in general specific to me...my opinion...

Robot Jones---too early to tell

Courage...good premise, but too much of the same thing each week...

I'd like to see the return of the Cartoon Cartoon show, featuring the one shots...

On a side note, I do like Adult Swim, and am anxiously awaiting the new shows like Inu-yasha, mainly cause I am a big Takahashi fan!

As always, differing opinons are welcome.

[Animeboy99]

Sorry, forgot one...

Grim and Evil...still pretty new, but I kinda enjoy it...Mandy needs an attitude adjustment, and you'd like to see Grim get some of his own back once in a while...Evil Con Carne is one of the best villians ever, cause he's just so BAD at being bad...lol

Nick Toons turn me off because of the HORRIBLE ART that seems to get worse with each new show they put out...it all looks like the just slapped it together...

As always, differing opinions welcome.

[Zechs]

CN isn't going down hill just hitting a ruff spot in the early years the writers were fresh and new but now they've grown stale even the new writers seem to be just plodding around with these ideas. Proplem is they are putting things out so fast in order to find a new hit but all they come back with are misses. Theres bound to be a few more dimonds the ruff so let's not blow up the mine yet. It may take a while but I sure some thing will come along.

[Animeboy99]

How sad is this?....I mention every Cartoon Cartoon, and LEAVE OUT JOHNNY BRAVO?!?!?!

Actually, Johnny is still pretty good, but I miss Van Partible. Why did he leave, or was he bought out by CN?

[BlackCat]

I miss Van Partible, too. I remember seeing him on one of the shorts where he was being interviewed about Johnny Bravo. I always like the old Johnny better before Van was gone. What did happen to him?

[Scythemantis]

Animeboy - you dont like zim? I think the animation on it is some of the best drawn for a television series in years. Exactly how I expected jhonen`s style to look like in motion... I hope he does another show soon...

Anyway, I`ve liked every cartoon cartoon to an extent, but I already can't stand the kids next door. The last thing we need is ANOTHER show about a groupe of kids. Ed, edd n` eddy at least has a unique "feel" going through it.... kids next door looks like a carbon copy of about half the nicktoons.

[Animeboy99]

Sting, it's not that I don't LIKE Zim, because what I've seen of it, it's not too bad...I just have an aversion to Nick Toons, because my daughter watches them MOST OF THE TIME!!!!...lol..and I just have never been a fan of Klasky/Csupo's art...it always looks the same, like someone let their kids draw the original characters..

Yes, I KNOW that Zim was NOT drawn by K/C, and I have not heard of the artist who does...apparently he is a popular aartist within this forum and others, because you all praise him so highly...I will probably watch it again, but not on a regular basis...

Again, anybody know what ever happened to Van Partible, the creator of Johnny Bravo?

[Animeboy99]

Addendum---

Re: Kids Next Door...from what I've seen, it reminds me of "Pepper Ann", and the Cartoon Cartoon Short "Kenny and the Chimp"...of which I would love to see some more of!

As always, differing opinions welcome...

[Scythemantis]

I was just talking about animation style, I meant to mention one or two other nicktoons I thought were drawn pretty nice. Most of them though, ARE hideous. I came to the conclusion a while back that everyone in Klasky cartoons is deformed by plutonium exposure.

I did like kenny and the chimp... I didnt get to see kids next door when it first aired as a short for the votes, but I saw the shows it was competing against and they were pretty good... I think I'm just jaded against the "bunch of kids going to school and doing all kinds of kids stuff" thanks to rocket power, as told by ginger, disney's doug (I loved doug back when there were only three or four nicktoons!) and Recess (which everyone has pretty much forgotten all about)

The creator of Zim's previous works are several gory, graphic, twisted and disturbing, completely insane comic series that are so far removed from "kid friendly" that i'm amazed nick wanted anything to do with the guy. His most popular is Jhonny the homocidal maniac. The title character makes hannibal lechter look like dora the explorer. :p

[Animeboy99]

Sting, you say you're surprised to see that Nick wanted to have anything to do with someone like the Zim artist, because of his previous work?....I got 3 words for ya...


Ren & Stimpy


'nuff said....lol

Granted, R & S aired in prime time most of the time, but still, it was on "The Network for Kids", so that ought to tell you enough right there. Remember. R & S got even more gross than before AFTER John K. was removed from the show by Mick.

As always, differing opinions welcome.

[Scythemantis]

Times change, though... nick has different management than it did back then, and they basically want to be a preschooler network now. They were "uncomfortable" about jokes in zim that ren and stimpy did a million times... for example, they refuse to ever let them imply that a character or animal ever dies. Whenever someone died in zim, nick made them add them alive and well later or have some silly disclaimer.

R&S died plenty of times in their own show in all kinds of violent and odd ways, but last time they aired the show they actually edited a whole lot out. I heard nick had some problem with one of their shows showing tombstones, even... I miss when nick was daring and cool!