CN becoming like Nick?

[Dark Spider]

I don't know, it just seems like CN is trying to become Nick with its Cartoon Cartoons...

If anyone watches Nick, all they will find is Nicktoons. From the Klasky Csupo toons, to the rare nugget Invader Zim. The aside from Nicktoons, Nick has some "department" shows that play within blocks like Teenick, Snick, Nick GAS and Nick Jr. And aside from these things, they will find very fews shows that don't belong anywhere, such as Pinky and the Brain.

That was Nickelodeon in a nutshell...now lets look at CN. CN plays their Cartoon Cartoons alot, much like Nickelodeon and its Nicktoons. They play them all the time. Then there are the "department" shows that play within blocks such as Toonami, Adult Swim, and Boomerang. And aside from that, there are a number of shows that don't "belong" anywhere.

Now lets look at CN and Nick in the past. Nick used to truly be a Kids Networks. They played shows geared towards kids that are memorable and noteworhy...and they weren't all Nicktoons or cartoons for that matter. Who could forget "Salute Your Shorts" or "You can't do that on Television"? They also played other cartoons such as "DangerMouse", "Heathcliff (and the Cadillac Cats)", and other gems. They also had shows from every genre such as game shows (Double Dare), action (Space Cases), drama (Fifteen), sketch comedy (Welcome Freshmen) and many others. All of these shows made up Nickelodeon and that's what made them great.

CN did its job as a cartoon network. CN used to play cartoons that many of us remember as kids such as "Smurfs" and other such cartoons. Plus they played shows that were just plain funny and entertaining.

But now Nick has saturated us with its "home grown" Nicktoons and they have stopped being overall creative. I fear CN is following in Nick's footsteps as more and more of its time slots have been filled with Cartoon Cartoons. Not that I don't like the cartoon cartoons, but there are more cartoons out in the market other than those.

Does anybody have any comments on this?

[Killtacular]

If anyone watches Nick, all they will find is Nicktoons. From the Klasky Csupo toons, to the rare nugget Invader Zim. The aside from Nicktoons, Nick has some "department" shows that play within blocks like Teenick, Snick, Nick GAS and Nick Jr. And aside from these things, they will find very fews shows that don't belong anywhere, such as Pinky and the Brain.

Nickelodeon's actually getting away from animation. I heard that they're going to be an entirely live-action network in the future, with all Nicktoon properties going to the Nicktoons TV channel.

That was Nickelodeon in a nutshell...now lets look at CN. CN plays their Cartoon Cartoons alot, much like Nickelodeon and its Nicktoons. They play them all the time. Then there are the "department" shows that play within blocks such as Toonami, Adult Swim, and Boomerang. And aside from that, there are a number of shows that don't "belong" anywhere.

So? Outside of AS, it's been like this for a few years now.

Now lets look at CN and Nick in the past. Nick used to truly be a Kids Networks. They played shows geared towards kids that are memorable and noteworhy...and they weren't all Nicktoons or cartoons for that matter. Who could forget "Salute Your Shorts" or "You can't do that on Television"? They also played other cartoons such as "DangerMouse", "Heathcliff (and the Cadillac Cats)", and other gems. They also had shows from every genre such as game shows (Double Dare), action (Space Cases), drama (Fifteen), sketch comedy (Welcome Freshmen) and many others. All of these shows made up Nickelodeon and that's what made them great.

Actually, Nickelodeon was originally The Pinwheel Channel, and it was really crappy. But yeah, I know what you're talking about.

CN did its job as a cartoon network. CN used to play cartoons that many of us remember as kids such as "Smurfs" and other such cartoons. Plus they played shows that were just plain funny and entertaining.

Um...they still do. And the Smurfs still are on the air.

But now Nick has saturated us with its "home grown" Nicktoons and they have stopped being overall creative.

Yep.

I fear CN is following in Nick's footsteps as more and more of its time slots have been filled with Cartoon Cartoons. Not that I don't like the cartoon cartoons, but there are more cartoons out in the market other than those.

And those cartoons don't get Cartoon Network ratings or advertisers.

I don't see why people don't get this.

In the 80s, Nickelodeon wasn't carried by many people and the advertisers weren't as demanding. So of COURSE Nick could air 80s cartoons, and imported toons. It was SAFE. Same for Cartoon Network. They were safe to air Hanna Barbera stuff because they just weren't in enough homes and they were owned by Turner.. huge money man.

But television isn't SAFE anymore. Cartoon Cartoons provide a huge ratings draw for CN. Just look at the press releases. CCPrimetime has been a huge ratings improvement, as has CCF's expansion to all-night. It's what the kids want. And it IS a kid's network in general.

[I.R Joey]

I don't share your fear of CN becoming like Nick, just look at Samurai Jack, this hsow is very unique in the cartoon landscape. Then they have stuff like Adult Swim and Toonami which are very fan freindly (Nick certainly isn't) and even the Cartoon Cartoons
(which are at least mediocre at worse, and hillarious at best.)

[Invader Dag]

cn is in no way close to nick. 1. CN still airs all of the good shows and doesn`t cancel new shows for no reason. 2. CN doesn`t screw with there creative artisit at all. 3. CN doesn`t try to focus on a single toon(rugrats), and they do listen to their veiwers. you shouldn`t be worried, cn has all the good shows, nick just doesn`t play their good shows.

[Rei]

The difference between Nick and CN's blocks are that Nick's suck. GAS is just nicktoons that usually don't fit into the category of games or sports like Hey Arnold or Rugrats. Snick is pathetic now. TeenNick is just plain stupid to me since their current live action shows are just plain bad. None of them are like the old game shows and comedies in the past when things like Pete and Pete, Salute Your Shorts, and the old cast of All That were on. Lots of people grew up on Nick (myself included) and to see what it's becoming now is sad.

CN however has actual strong blocks that they put alot of interest into. Toonami alone is more than any block Nick has had or probably will ever have. AS will continue expanding and becoming more "adult" and Boomerang will be there for some nostalgic purposes.

[DarkMaster]

The cuts and programming decisions by the WB TV leadership seriously damaged the Cartoon Network's ability to keep a unified schedule and build on its past successes. WB TV leadership made (or were responsible for) the following changes:

Forcing out Betty Cohen, the president of the network.
Replacing her with a "General Manager," Jim Samples.
Reducing one of the most successful blocks, Toonami, to only 2 hours.
Moving Toonami to one of the worst time periods for such a block.
Cutting new, quality programming and development.
Slashing the acquistions budget (used for getting new series).
Forcing out Dea Perez, the acquisitions executive for the network.
Forcing the Turner Entertainment networks to all share one acquisitions executive, Jonathan Katz.
So, when the Cartoon Network recently tried to sell time for commercials to advertisers for this fall and the Christmas season (the most important time for commercials) the network did (and still is doing) lukewarm business--even as other non-AOL/Time Warner networks are on the upbound.

In the TV business they call this early selling of commercial time the "Upfront Sales." And as part of WB TV's grand plan, Kids' WB and the Cartoon Network conducted their presentation together to advertisers. Held on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 in New York City, they made a lot of claims "together" since separately the 2 concerns have been going down in ratings and in demographics when compared to other networks.

The people who were in this room are called media buyers--one of which told us that they were "...spectacularly unimpressed" with the plans for Kids' WB and the Cartoon Network in 2002/2003.

AOL Responds, sort of...
AOL has not been blind to this and other changes at Turner networks--especially since their overall Nielsen ratings had been in decline for months (see the Nielsen Sidebar on this page). But more important to AOL is how this situation is tracked by Wall Street analysts. AOL/Time Warner stock is seriously depressed. It has been dragged down over the months by different factors. At the moment, problems with AOL's online advertising sales are the current blame but the TV networks did play a part earlier.

AOL started to take action months before the Upfront Sales by first letting go of Gerald Levin. This was announced on Wednesday, December 5, 2001 and seemed to surprise too many people. (Didn't everyone know this back in August?) No reason was given publicly for forcing him out, in fact Mr. Levin claimed to be retiring early, but internally AOL decided to pin the blame on him for a host of problems--including the downward spiral of their TV networks.

Then, on Friday, December 21, 2001, AOL announced that it was bringing back Ted Turner which did surprise almost everyone. For most of 2001 (and maybe even earlier) Turner had found himself outmaneuvered in board meetings. Gerald Levin was successfully using the merger with AOL to force Turner out. Ted even publicly said that he wished that he had been able to fire Gerald, "...before he fired me."

We think bringing Ted back is a great decision.

Next, AOL moved some of its own executives around and then put the gentle squeeze on WB TV. AOL is in the process of "...encouraging" WB TV to take immediate and positive action regarding the Turner Entertainment networks. Supposedly, Ted Turner will be "...assisting" in this endeavor via his position as Vice Chairman of AOL/Time Warner.

The first positive sign of change came within a few weeks after the new year, when it was decided that Kids' WB would relinquish the Toonami name, a name that would go back to exclusive use by the Cartoon Network. Well that was nice.

Viacom Wants You, Regardless of your Age
You gotta hand it to Viacom, they want you from cradle to grave. They got Nick Jr., they got Nickelodeon, they got the upcoming Nicktoons Network, they got MTV, they got Paramount Pictures, they got UPN (well, half of it), they got your VH1 & 2, they got CBS, they got TV Land, they got Nick At Nite, and they got a lot more than that.

But there's one thing they don't got! Have you noticed? They don't have any blocks of edgy animation for the 18-34 market. (MTV [which actually skews younger] is already full and making money.) Viacom saw how WB TV was propelling the Cartoon Network, how Disney still hadn't used the ABC brand for this sort of thing, and how Barry Diller's Sci-Fi network had repeatedly blown-off animation. So.....

[GoufCustom]

So.... Cartoon Network will have a good future?

As for the CN like Nick discussion. IMO, CN is nothing like Nick. Hell, they're far superior over Nick. CN outclasses Nick in so many ways.

[VashTheStampede]

Lets all just agree that CN isn't totally lost yet like Nick. And that it is not as far down as the WWE.

[Dark Spider]

I'm not saying that CN will become like Nick in terms of quality (I think CN is superior to Nick here)...

I'm just concerned that CN will lose its range of shows like Nick has. CN is starting to oversaturate its timeslots with Cartoon Cartoons the same way Nick has with Nicktoons. Pretty soon Cartoon Cartoons will rule CN. That's what I'm truly afraid of...

I'm sorry if my above post was confusing, as I felt like comparing the two networks before stating my concern.

[mbaker]

You have A good point. Viacom & Di$ney don't have an edgy animation/anime block for us to enjoy, but next year, Viacom will. TNN plans on bringing back Ren & Stimpy as part of their own adult animation block, and not only that, they asked John K. to produce more episodes for them. So that's A start.

[Sprocket]

Wow Darkmaster, that was....unexpectingly articulate.

Did you come up with that off the top of your head?

[Kolbar]

I think nick sucks.

Cartoon Network did not copy nick, nick copied Cartoon Network, plus CN's shows have been around longer because most of them are classics.

[Nickdisk]

They also had shows from every genre such as game shows (Double Dare), action (Space Cases), drama (Fifteen), sketch comedy (Welcome Freshmen) and many others. All of these shows made up Nickelodeon and that's what made them great.
i agree with you about Space Cases :)

it looks like Nick will be showing more Nicktoons in the future.. only a few live action shows have been rumoured to return with new episodes this fall :(

[Pilmedium]

In terms of original programming, I think Cartoon Network is no better than Nickelodeon. I don't like either of them. However, Cartoon Network is good because it shows old television cartoons and classic theatrical cartoons frequently. Nickelodeon has what, two hours each week of Animaniacs? :p

[Mackenzie Rainelle]

O.o;; Animaniacs is still airing?

[Nickdisk]

Originally posted by Mackenzie Rainelle
O.o;; Animaniacs is still airing? on Nicktoons TV :)

[Mad Scientist]

Originally posted by Matt Wilson

Nickelodeon's actually getting away from animation. I heard that they're going to be an entirely live-action network in the future, with all Nicktoon properties going to the Nicktoons TV channel.

You know what I think? I think that's a big lie. No, I'm not talking about you, Matt. I'm calling Nickelodeon the liars.

Nick keeps endlessly bragging about how they so-called "screwed over Nicktoons Studio." I don't think that's the truth, because lately, all the big fame that has been going on for the past year (and all the other previous ones) has been headed, and still is headed, towards... Nicktoons Studio.

Sure, it's cool that they brought back Invader ZIM after it's been canned, but guess what? They cancelled it AGAIN just a few episodes short before the entire series' completion. (Sometimes I wonder what the point was. A few extra episodes couldn't hurt now, could it?) They also brought back SpongeBob SquarePants and CatDog as well. This move lead me to doubts whether Nickelodeon really was keeping their "promise."

And NOW look what's happening. Hey Arnold! The Movie and an upcoming SpongeBob SquarePants: The Movie next year?! Please excuse me while I puke...

Also, if Nickelodeon really is getting rid of their Nicktoons, why are they STILL on, and with new episodes coming up? And where is the first actioner non-Nicktoon animated show that Nickelodeon put up, Butt-Ugly Martians? What? You forgot it's not there anymore? I thought so. Oh, yeah! The BUMs are only on in the wee hours of the morning (weekdays @7AM E/P). You know how hard it usually is to get up in the morning. Shame, really.

And speaking of non-Nicktoons, what about those cartoons that Nickelodeon purchased from Warner Bros. Animation, like Animaniacs, Pinky & The Brain, and Tiny Toon Adventures? The only thing they have of the 3 shows nowadays is Animaniacs, and you'll have to take an EVEN GREATER RISK if you wanna watch it (Saturdays @6 & 6:30AM E/P).

And what about the new show Chalk Zone, huh? It's a Nicktoon, so WHY IS IT ON?

In short, there's no other way to say this, but Nickelodeon and Nicktoons Studio are totally INSEPARABLE. They can say they'll soon get rid of NTS all they want, but they'll never do it. Why? Well, the two factors are obvious: 1) The executives like all the bad shows and do everything they can to get rid of the good ones and 2) Nick is too dependent on them.

[RogueMartian]

I wouldn't worry too much about CN becoming like Nickelodeon. At least not for a while anyway. First reason is that CN doesn't air live action shows. Nickelodeon aired most of the live action shows like "are you afraid of the dark" and others to get older kids to watch. CN does the same, but uses animation and gets shows like Justice League, and Adult Swim.

Cartoon Network used to be more like Nick (which is why I never watched it) but now it tries really hard to maintain shows that a larger group of people can enjoy. Kids and Adults can enjoy most of the shows it has.

Nickelodeon is more like Disney in my opinion. A giant that got too big and can no longer see what they are doing.

[Mad Scientist]

Originally posted by RogueMartian

Nickelodeon is more like Disney in my opinion. A giant that got too big and can no longer see what they are doing.

*Applause*

Yeah, I agree. When Hey Arnold! (the first show that signaled weakness for Nickelodeon) came out in 1996, all went to Hell.

[Nickdisk]

Nickelodeon's actually getting away from animation. I heard that they're going to be an entirely live-action network in the future, with all Nicktoon properties going to the Nicktoons TV channel.
i dont think that will be happening any time soon :( its been reported on my Nick message board that most live action shows have been cancelled (Eddie McDowd, Caitlins Way, The Amanda Show, Taina, and a few more) :(