RPG Board Update: New MODs, New Rules

[Bird Boy]

It was bound to happen. The RPG was in a rut that it couldn't get out of. So, after alot of working and retooling and adding, the new rules (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38370) have been launched, along with 2 new MODs, redDragon and The Guitar Slayer. They'll be "working" soley on the RPG board, so be sure to welcome them, and thank em' that we'll have some extra help on the board now..:)

I urge EVERYONE that was thinking of (and already has) joining the RPG to read the new set of rules, as they are completely brand new from the old ones. You'll notice that instead of allowing users to up and join the RPG, we "interview" them beforehand, so to speak. This will give us an idea of the RPGers ability to RPG and help us avoid any "bad" RPGers. Although we aren't experts, by any means, at RPGing, we think this will work out better.

So, in closing, give the new MODs a round of applause and check out the rules.

-Joseph "Bird Boy"

[Bleu Unicorn]

Congratulations to redDragon and The Guitar Slayer -- I'm super excited for you both. (And I know you'll let me do whatever I want, right? Ok... just kidding.)

~Bleu~

[Barb Gordon]

Yeah, you said it Bleu! I'm so thrilled to have them as part of the group, they both deserve it very much. You two rock!!!

~Barb

[redDragon]

Thanks guys! Now this just means the Joker can run rampant even more in the RPs ;)

[Mr. Obsession]

Well I'll start by saying congrads to redDragon and The Guitar Slayer. :)

(as a note I'm going to be posting most of this in the off-topic thread on the RPG board)

I just finished reading over the new rules. There fine and all, but I have to say that I disagree with a "cap" on each RPG. I'd kind of like to know the justification behind such a decision. If the mods feel this is better suited to PM's that's fine by me, but I do want to discuss this "issue".

Personally I see the caps as a limit on the RPG's potential. For example the BB RPG is now "full", but there are a ton of unclaimed characters in the BB universe that are still available. By not allowing any new members I believe that the growth of the RPG has been incredibly limited. I say this because since people know there's a cap it I believe that it severely limits the possibility that potential members will want to join. I also say this because I believe if new members can't join than to keep the stories advancing you're going to have to bring in new characters which means that existing members are going to have to cover this which means that either they're going drop existing characters to focus on new ones (which can harm the overall story) or the members will potentially face "burnout" and drop the RPG, if this happens to enough players it would equal the death of the RPG.

And what about RPG's like the Justice League or X-Men, which by their very nature can easily fill the cap with just the rosters of the heroes?

[Bird Boy]

Originally posted by Mr. Obsession


I just finished reading over the new rules. There fine and all, but I have to say that I disagree with a "cap" on each RPG. I'd kind of like to know the justification behind such a decision. If the mods feel this is better suited to PM's that's fine by me, but I do want to discuss this "issue".

Personally I see the caps as a limit on the RPG's potential. For example the BB RPG is now "full", but there are a ton of unclaimed characters in the BB universe that are still available. By not allowing any new members I believe that the growth of the RPG has been incredibly limited. I say this because since people know there's a cap it I believe that it severely limits the possibility that potential members will want to join. I also say this because I believe if new members can't join than to keep the stories advancing you're going to have to bring in new characters which means that existing members are going to have to cover this which means that either they're going drop existing characters to focus on new ones (which can harm the overall story) or the members will potentially face "burnout" and drop the RPG, if this happens to enough players it would equal the death of the RPG.

And what about RPG's like the Justice League or X-Men, which by their very nature can easily fill the cap with just the rosters of the heroes?

I see where your coming from, however, the main decision came from the fact that the Worlds Finest RPG had too many characters. Stories were coming out of the wazoo, and any more characters would've made the RPG just unbelieveble difficult to come up with. I don't wanna seem like a secret agent man or somthing, but, I'm gonna talk this over w/ the other RPG MODs later today,and see what we can work out..

-BB

[Kylewayne]

Congrats you two! I'm happy for you both.
And I agree with Uni ...let her do as she wants.... :D hehe...the Queen allows it^^

[Matthan]

Well, Mr. Obsession, I understand where you're coming from, but on the other side of the coin there are some scary possibilities. With ten players it used to be possible for there to be 30 different characters running around. That could theoretically be 30 different plots running around. The problem stems from people not knowing how to take turns. The problem is unfortunately still viable with the new rules. Whether they meant to or not, they didn't put a character cap up like we had before. Where before it was recommended to have one or two characters with three being the max, now there is no official cap. So we could have 10 players and a hundred characters. Talk about getting sick of an rpg. If the player cap continues, it will be the players who have to expand themselves. Mostly though, I think it will be a rotating villain cast. Someone may do a plot with Joker and when it concludes shuffles to Two-Face. Is that better? I don't know. I am only involved in the Beyond RPG, and that hasn't really happened.

On your side though, sometimes new players really liven up an rpg. They can bring new ideas and make new plots. Asmor (though he's gone now and I'm going to miss him) and I joined the Beyond RPG at around the same time and hopefully we both brought a little breath of fresh air with us. Asmor worked well with Blight and made up a joint plot. I'm working on a major plot now. I think the player cap may have been more important if they weren't screening the potential players. If the players are going to be screened to see if they are "good" enough then theoretically they should be good enough to add to the story without convuluting it. The biggest thing that needs to be brought out either in the rules or in some type of general RPG tips thread, is that all characters don't have to be active at once. If every villain in the Beyond universe was being played at once, there is no way the heroes would win even with the custom heroes we have now.

The rules are good, but they still don't address the core problem that is plaguing many of the failing rpgs. People are still not sure how to work everything. There is no where they can go to read how to play. It's more than just writing a story. It has a fundamental base in interaction with the other players. That's the joy of the games. However with interaction comes etiquette and that's what we're lacking. I don't think a player cap would be necessary if players realized that more than two or three main plots happening at once is to much. The Beyond rpg has been such a success because as each plot winds down there is some out of character discussion about who goes next. Heck, I even asked before I did the Mayor plot. Blight asked before he brought back Joker. I believe you (Mr. O) even gave everyone notice when you were introducing Ibn. No one gave away all the details but they made sure it was ok with the rpg first. We need some type of etiquette written up where we can point new (and old) players to and say this is how you do it. I'm sure most of the older players would help any new players if they asked. I know that they always answered me. By the way, Mr. O thanks for answering my PM about joining the Beyond rpg a long time ago. That was a big deal to me.

That's my opinion about that. We're treating symptoms instead of finding a cure. Hopefully the Mods aren't going to sit on their laurels and try to keep the rpg forum dynamic in its rules and how they carry them out. Here's to hoping.

~Matthan

[The Guitar Slayer]

Hopefully the Mods aren't going to sit on their laurels and try to keep the rpg forum dynamic in its rules and how they carry them out. Here's to hoping.


Okay, folks. Like Matthan said, I hope that'll never happen. I'm right psychotic about this, so the rotweiller lives. :D

I know myself and Bird_Boy got some of you folks in Private Messages, but this one's for everybody. Everybody who has not posted for a long time could lose their character if they don't wake up. Some of you have actually forgotten your character in a certain RPG. It's not all your fault...the character list is hard to maintain. However, this is an


ANNOUNCEMENT:

Check out the character listing that Bird Boy posted in February. Although it doesn't look like it's been updated, he and I have been going in and editting in and out characters.

One idea I've had was to start keeping a waiting list. Since some characters have been abandoned (some that are integral to the storyline), I'm going to be going back and looking up people who were interested in the RPG, but could not get in at that time. I will take note of the names; first come, first serve as usual. PLEASE TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK OF THIS IDEA. IT IS NOT SET IN STONE.

Also, as most of you know, the JL RPG will be rebooted. I would suggest getting in and calling claims on characters now, if ever.

The Reality Check RPG needs some New Yorkers and other colorful characters. We want hobos, transvestites, transsexuals, hookers, Broadway people, athletes, cops, criminals, families, every person you've ever seen or heard of in NYC.

Batman RPG people, there's going to be going to be a lot going on at 6:22 RPG time, 11 hours from current RPG time. I suggest you catch up and get ready for some serious chaos. :)

I think that covers it. Comments, Questions?

[Mattashell]

I would rather see a limit of one character per user, than a limit of members. Maybe a user could change a character only after officially giving up the first character. Let's just focus on a single plot instead of everyone going off on their own things and never coming together.

[Matthan]

A character per user would solve the problem on the surface, but wouldn't help. Most rpgs need players to take on several hats. The sordid truth is that it is the rare rpg that has dedicated players. Some players stay for a little while and leave. Some just hang on the fringes and people think they have quit. Some do just quit. Let's make up a fictional scenario here. What happens when the guy who is playing Batman wants to play someone else? The other four people in the rpg are all happy with their characters and don't want to change. Does Batman become an NPC? Does he just get shuffled around with no direction?

The mods have made a step in a good direction by trying to force people to post. The rules still have too many loopholes in them though (as I constantly point out to Bird Boy). The rules are not going to fix the dying rpgs. In the end, it is going to come down to whether the players dedicated to the game stick around.

As for multiple plots, we need to define terms. There needs to be one main central plot going on at a time (say Joker is loose and causing havoc by placing a bomb in Gotham that Batman has to find). Sub plots however should be present and encouraged. Maybe Dick Grayson is struggling with popping the question to Barbara Gordon. Maybe Two-Face is starting to round up experts in the field of computer programming for his next big heist. The big thing is that Two-Face doesn't come to the forefront until the Joker plot has concluded. If we force all the players to always be interacting with one another and the main plot, we will kill character development (which seems to die pretty quickly in the rpgs anyway admittedly). RPGs at their best must be dynamic collective stories. To impose to many limitations will be to enforce a static collection of uninteresting characters doing random things. You can't take away a character's motivation. I'm most familiar with the Batman Beyond RPG so I'm going to draw some examples from there.

Mr. Obsession has two characters, Stalker and Ibn. Stalker's motivation remains consistent from the tv show. Mr. O has even grown him to have his freedom from a debt of honor as a new character driving force. Ibn is a dynamic character. He is not a classic villain. Instead, he seems obsessed with reclaiming his family. Yet, he is also a master mind. He plays people and actions like a game of chess. In the background, Mr. O has a plot with a government agency which has been doing secretive things like stealing the Joker's body. Currently, Mr. O has brought Stalker into Ibn's employ. By doing so, he has not only steamlined the multiple plots, but also enhanced it.

Blight is the consistent villain player. He has consistently played his namesake, Blight, and also did a short stint as the Joker. The real emphasis here though should be on his portrayal of Blight. He has grown Blight up. From playing his greed perfectly by striking deals with the enemy of his enemy to crush them both to now even exploring the Derek Powers aspect of his personality. He has managed to have a solid sub plot of Derek Powers reascenscion into power.

Right now the Batman Beyond RPG doesn't have one main plot, and that may be partially my fault by putting off my plot for a few hours in game time. But the Beyond RPG is at its height in popularity with many players and characters, and everyone interested. Just about everyone is working hard to interact with the others. We have been blessed over all with good players. I get to tag along for the ride. There needs to be more to the rpgs than just running from fight to fight. Plots have to be nurtured and developed. Sometimes that means having multiple characters. Sometimes that means having a running sub plot for months like Mr. O. The point is to tell a good story that everyone will enjoy. That would be a lot easier if there was more etiquette than rules in place. We need to tell players to keep sub plots beneath the overall main plot. We need to encourage character interaction and encourage new members. Let's face it, people aren't scrambling to join the rpgs. We need to work on helping the players be better at their jobs instead of throwing rules around. Maybe the mods can make a supplement to the rules about how to work in the rpg. They can cover character development, staying in character, and staying with the plot.

I've rambled enough. If you think this is long though, you should see my posts on the rpg. :p

~Matthan

[Mr. Obsession]

Gee, thanks Matthan. I can feel my head swelling even as I type this. :p And for the record your analysis of Ibn is almost right. And I will eventually be tying all my little sub-plots together. Just don't ask me when. ;) It all depends on how the RPG moves and what people through at me. I like to stay flexible.


Back on topic. :D I will admit that I hadn't realized that the limit on how many characters a player can have has been removed. But I still disagree with the cap. At the very least is should be raised, to say 15 members. Or at least keep open the possibility of increasing the cap on individual RPG's on a case-by-case basis as the need arises. I mean I would feel really bad if I had to tell someone who went through and read all three threads worth of the Batman Beyond RPG, they had a really good plot idea, and they were going to take one of the shows main characters that hadn't been claimed yet only to have to tell them "sorry, we're all full right now, try back later."

But I still believe that some common sense rules would work a lot better and replace the need for the cap. Again the BB RPG is probably the best example --
Only have one main plot running at a time (I think this naturally emerged in the BB RPG because of the nature of the show in which the RPG is based on). But it doesn't mean that you can't start setting up plot lines for the next main plot at the same time, especially as the current one is winding down.
If you have an idea that you'd like to do for the "next main plot" announce that you have an idea (calling dibbs). Also it might help to PM or chat with a few of the other players that you'd like to have "in the know" for you're idea, especially in the case where real life might interrupt you. This way the story can continue.
If you're joining the RPG. Please read through the history so that you don't mess-up the RPG continuity. This is especially important if you're going to be taking up a character that another player has dropped.
You must interact in some way with the current story, tieing up loose ends and seting up new plots is fine, but don't have you're character running around doing their own thing oblivious to the rest of "the world".
When you join the RPG post an Out Of Character introduction, especially if it's going to be an origional character. Don't just "jump into the think of it".
Be flexable. Sometimes things don't workout and it would really suck to have written yourself into a corner. Remeber the RPG is a story with multiple authors, each with his or her own vision of how the event are going to unfold.
Don't tell all you're secrets. Because, well, they're secrets. ;)

Yes, I know I've been guilty of breaking some of those guidelines. :p But really, if we just enforced some common sense there wouldn't be a need for the caps. :)

[Mattashell]

You guys make good points, and I realize that more than one character per player is not always bad. I was not thinking of TGS's two characters in Reality Check, for example, since they function as a unit anyway. So I'm fine with that. The trouble is when someone does something like suggest a JL RPG and the stake claim on Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman. That is just no fun.

[Matthan]

The problem that you bring up isn't necessarily one that should be a rule problem. That's a bad player. That would be like starting up a Batman RPG and taking Batman, Robin, and Batgirl. I see your point and it is valid. I don't know if that has happened in the rpgs, but there are a few ways around it. Here would be some possible rules or suggestions the mods could do in that instance.

Institute a rule of starting RPGs having a limit of one pre made hero and one pre made villain per player. Custom characters shouldn't affect this tally. (But I do think that the rule of three characters tops should be reinstated).

Instead of going for more rules simply have the mods monitor the beginning RPG discussions. If someone seems greedy, let the mods kindly ask him to play nice. Chances are someone that selfish isn't going to pass the screening tests anyway.

I think again that this problem is more of an etiquette thing. Would you really want to play with someone who wants all the main characters? If the player is like that before it starts, what do you think he will be like once it starts?

I agree with most of what Mr. O said. A few of the RPGs seem to have a more non linear premise (like the reality based one) so the players are going to have to work harder to interact. Superhero rpgs should be easy to interact though.

Calling 'dibbs' is a very nice idea.

I don't think any of us can over emphasize interaction. I had a lot of trouble with this early on. Mainly, the action finished just as I got my character there. Pathetic? Sure, but I'm getting better. Everyone was patient with me while I learned the ropes though. For all the 'old' rpgers out there, remember to be patient with the newbies. Help them out. Give them tips. I've had the most fun when I'm talking to some of the other players and we discuss plans or I ask if I can abus... err... I mean use their character. The RPG is a lot more fun like that. Even phone calls become interesting when it's with another player's character.

~Matthan

[ccffan01]

How I wasn't the new mod is beyong me, hahaha jk, good luck and congratulations.