those Poor Palestinians

[VashTheStampede]

JERUSALEM –– A suicide bomber jumped out of a car, dashed past two policemen and ran to a bus stop before blowing himself up and killing at least seven other people Wednesday evening. More than 35 people were wounded.

Don't you feel sorry for these poor palestinians who died. :rolleyes: Can't you feel the peace and love of the Mulims.

[Joe Wagner]

What I can I say other than the violence in the Middle East has only gotten worse and worse. It seems that everyday we here more about these "suicide bombers" but only one network has gotten it right and started to call them what they are - "homocide bombers".

I think it's a shame that most of the news is skewed to show the Palestinian view but rarely shows how much the country of Israel has gone through - no country in the world would put up with terrorism the way that every country has dictated that Israel does - strengthening these attacks. While many may disagree with the new policy to take "Palestinian" land I think it's appropriate until the terrorist scum known as Arafat is taken out of power and these other organizations no longer exist on this earth. Unfortunately until these steps are taken both the Palestinian and Israeli people will be forced to live in fear. It's a shame to because the views of these sects within the PLO has caused their people to suffer even though there are a lot of Palestinians that want to live in peace with Israel and wants the homocide attacks to stop as well. Arfat on the other hand will never stop them and has walked away from proposals that would have given him 90% of what he asked for - he's a terrorist and should be treated like one.

-Joe!

[VashTheStampede]

but only one network has gotten it right and started to call them what they are - "homocide bombers".

You must be talking about Fox News. Yes that is the only place I get my news, they are truly "fair and balanced". Just imagine if day after day homicide bombers struck in this country. We would take out this scum with as much force as we can. Every other country would whine about because they hate us. They hate us because we are better than them in every way and now we are doing better in Soccer(a sport we could care less about) than alot of the European contries. We wouldnt care about their opinion why do we think Israel should?

[Rhydant]

this happens every week.

just be thankful you dont live over there. i sure am.

[MachSabre]

I was there for a few weeks a couple years back during one of our many bombing raids to Iraq. (Also known as Operation: Monica) It was so odd. Apparently terrorism and stuff like that happens on a regular basis. It's almost like a driveby shooting in East LA... It's so common it's a way of life. Scared the hell out of me, but yet they went on like it's nothing.

Imagine, living in a country where there was a fair chance that you could be killed just for going grocery shopping?

[Pilmedium]

Originally posted by VashTheStampede
Don't you feel sorry for these poor palestinians who died. Can't you feel the peace and love of the Mulims.

So now it's the Palestinians that died? If so, all they got was a taste of their own medicine.

[VashTheStampede]

So now it's the Palestinians that died? If so, all they got was a taste of their own medicine

No, more Israelis, I was just playing the part of the mass media.

[Joe Wagner]

Originally posted by VashTheStampede


You must be talking about Fox News. Yes that is the only place I get my news, they are truly "fair and balanced". Just imagine if day after day homicide bombers struck in this country. We would take out this scum with as much force as we can. Every other country would whine about because they hate us. They hate us because we are better than them in every way and now we are doing better in Soccer(a sport we could care less about) than alot of the European contries. We wouldnt care about their opinion why do we think Israel should?

You got it on the first try - Fox News has become the only place I watch TV News and I get a lot of my info from the Drudge Report, Micheal Savage (The Savage Nation) and Rush Limbaugh. I got real sick of the Palestinian News Network and their nazist owner (CNN and Ted Turner) and their constant apologies to everyone for the US's fight against terrorism. When 9/11 happened all they could do was constantly apologize to the Muslim countries that breed this type of hate - quite frankly it disgusted me and as former Army I decided I wouldn't put up with such a blatant endorsement of the attacks we suffered.

"I just can't take it anymore!!" - Micheal Savage

-Joe!

[VashTheStampede]

I got the Drudge Report as my homepage and I also listen to his radio show Sunday nights. And when I see the terrorist apologists I just get angry. Here let me show you :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[ccffan01]

Their getting what they deserve if they dont want to be invaded than their leaders should try to prevent people running into Isreal and killing inocent people.

[SpaceCub]

What I can I say other than the violence in the Middle East has only gotten worse and worse. It seems that everyday we here more about these "suicide bombers"

I doubt that things have gotten worse, they've probably just stayed the same. It's just that after last September the media has been showing it to us more often.

It's a ****ty situation for both parties, both have been blinded by the war that just about everybody over there hates the other people. I'm not saying I condone what these people do, but it still sucks to be them (both sides).

---
You see, animals are a lot like people. Some are agressive because of genes, hunger, or because they feel threatened. Of course, like humans, some animals are just jerks"

[Joe Wagner]

Originally posted by SpaceCub


I doubt that things have gotten worse, they've probably just stayed the same. It's just that after last September the media has been showing it to us more often.

It's a ****ty situation for both parties, both have been blinded by the war that just about everybody over there hates the other people. I'm not saying I condone what these people do, but it still sucks to be them (both sides).

---
You see, animals are a lot like people. Some are agressive because of genes, hunger, or because they feel threatened. Of course, like humans, some animals are just jerks"

While it may seem like a lot more media coverage (this part is true, there is quite a bit more since 9/11) the amount and intensity of the attacks has actually been increasing steadily very recently. I also agree with Vash - I really hate when the PLO says they condone the attacks because Arafats says this in english (a language few in his country understand) while muttering something completely different in his own tounge. As of right now Arafat has got to be one of the most vocal terrorists in the world and should be treated as a terrorist - complete with his own cell at Camp X-Ray in Cuba.

-Joe!

[ninjagirl]

i'll probably get flamed for an unpopular opinion but i don't feel right to let this thread go unchallenged, so here goes.
i have too say we should feel sypathetic whenever our fellow human beings are suffering.
i feel for both israeli and palestinian non-combatants who have been killed in this and other incidents.
whoever is right or wrong, killing women and children, unarmed civillians, is wrong.
systematically humiliating a people is also wrong.
i really doubt that a lot of the world sits around hating americans because we so much better than them.
the more i learn the more i realize everybody thinks their culture, their country is the best and everyone else would be better off if they were more like "us" (i.e. themselves).
i try to get a well rounded view of a situation before i judge it. i've recently been looking into the palestinian-israeli conflict and here are a few sites that might give a little more insight into the realities of life there.

[URL=http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/homeintro.htm (http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0795/9507006.htm[/URL)
http://www.counterpunch.org/starhawk0614.html
http://www.counterpunch.org/bahour0607.html
(http://www.counterpunch.org/bahour0607.html)this one is an israeli writer writing for an israeli newspaper (http://www.counterpunch.org/hass0613.html)
i doubt i'll change any minds, however i hope some of you will read the articles and maybe come to see a little more that arabs are regular people too,
and shouldn't all be judged for the actions of others who share their label. some arabs are good people, some are bad, most are a mixture of good and bad. the same can be said for any group.
i'm not a "jew-hater" or anti american.
i very nearly lost a relative in the pentagon attacks.
i wish much peace and happiness to all of you.
a concerned human being

[Joe Wagner]

I have to agree with ninjagirl on a point she made - I don't believe that all people of Arab descent are bad but at the same time the consensus of a lot of the media has shown that there is a biasis against the people of Isreal. After the Hotel shooting near the Jewish Passover holiday the EU was ready to inflict sanctions upon the country of Isreal for their military offensive they launched against the militant camps. Luckily Germany and Britain said "No, this ain't gonna happen".

While I know there a lot of Palestinians that want peace I think they need to realize that it will never happen with Arafat in power. This is the same "leader" that has embezzeled hundreds of millions of dollars for terrorist campaigns that should have been used to create jobs for Palestinian workers, that spread lies of an alleged Jenin massacre that never happened, that ordered weapons of destruction from Iran - clearly breaking his agreement in the Oslow accords and also walked out on an offer that would have given him 90% of the land he wanted and created a country of Palestine.

So far Arafat has not done a thing to help his people - leading to an increased hatred for the Isreali people and forcing them to find ways to protect themselves. Like I said before - no country would put up with terrorism the way Isreal has been told to and I think it's about time they defended themselves and found a way to establish peace because it will never happen with a blatant terrorist in power.

-Joe!

[Zapages]

I can't beleive how people are blinded by the media now a days... All the media does is just show the Isrealise side of view.... It never shows WHY are the poor Palestinian people suffering from the impresion of Isrealise...

The creation of Isreal was based on religion... The whole world discarded the people who live there before the Jewish people came *nothing against them at all I have Jewish friends too*... They just told them to leave... So how would you feel if some new people came and told you to leave.... Angry right... Right so the Palestinians are angry that they told them to move get out off our land type of situation.... They tired to negotiate but it fail... The leaders aren't doing anything so the youth goes of fights a war in desparate means of survival....

Also the whole peace talks broke down in 1998/9 *I think*...On the right of return issue.... I think if the Jewish people were allowed to come back, so should the Palestinains... The other reason was Jersulamem <sp>... That's why the peace talks broke down basically...

[Quoute]Don't you feel sorry for these poor palestinians who died. Can't you feel the peace and love of the Mulims.[/Quote]

Hey don't bash other people because of their religion, I don't go around saying that this people from this religion killed or did something... Keep your opinions are like this to yourself please...

Zapages...

[Joe Wagner]

Actually a lot of the media shows the opposite view - taking a Palestinian point of view (Rutgers and CNN are probably the most notorious with the Washington Post and NY Post close behind). A lot of the stories refer to "people" being killed and usually state that one Palestinian died in a bombing - even if the Palestinian that died was in fact a Palestinian bomber. The NY Post has also pictured Palestinian people standing in traffic while they ignored the fact that a homocide bomber had attacked.

The only network that has really shown a "fair and balanced" report has actually been the Fox News Network - stating the facts instead of a lot of worthless propoganda. Also the peace talks of Camp David broke down because of Arafat not wanting peace even though Palestine would have gotten a peice of Jerusalem and used it as it's capital. Historically Arafat has made a lot of claims as to why the violence has continued and has never taken a step to end the violence.

Zapages - you're also missing a major piece of history regarding the establishment of Palestine. Both a Palestinian and Isreali state were established in the UN doctorine but they refused to fight for their country - instead getting absorbed into Jordan, Lebanon and Syria. When these now displaced citizens tried to overthrow the Jordanian king they were expelled and wound up in Isreal. Isreal on the other hand has been engaged in quite a few wars to defend itself and has proven to be a strong ally for deomocracy in the region. The areas the PLO claims as there's were never there's under the establishment of the Palestinian state and were in fact Egypts until they lost them in a war with Isreal. The lands that the PLO has laid claim to has never been there's and follows Arafat's remarks to "drive Isreal into the sea" and his threats of "a major explosion" in the middle east.

-Joe!

[Zapages]

you're also missing a major piece of history regarding the establishment of Palestine. Both a Palestinian and Isreali state were established in the UN doctorine but they refused to fight for their country - instead getting absorbed into Jordan, Lebanon and Syria. When these now displaced citizens tried to overthrow the Jordanian king they were expelled and wound up in Isreal. Isreal on the other hand has been engaged in quite a few wars to defend itself and has proven to be a strong ally for deomocracy in the region. The areas the PLO claims as there's were never there's under the establishment of the Palestinian state and were in fact Egypts until they lost them in a war with Isreal. The lands that the PLO has laid claim to has never been there's and follows Arafat's remarks to "drive Isreal into the sea" and his threats of "a major explosion" in the middle east.

yea :( I forgot that sorry....

All I got to say negotiations will end the problem and there's no other way.... It's a real messed up situation right now...

[ninjagirl]

Originally posted by JJWspider
Actually a lot of the media shows the opposite view - taking a Palestinian point of view (Rutgers and CNN are probably the most notorious with the Washington Post and NY Post close behind). A lot of the stories refer to "people" being killed and usually state that one Palestinian died in a bombing - even if the Palestinian that died was in fact a Palestinian bomber. The NY Post has also pictured Palestinian people standing in traffic while they ignored the fact that a homocide bomber had attacked.

The only network that has really shown a "fair and balanced" report has actually been the Fox News Network - stating the facts instead of a lot of worthless propoganda. Also the peace talks of Camp David broke down because of Arafat not wanting peace even though Palestine would have gotten a peice of Jerusalem and used it as it's capital. Historically Arafat has made a lot of claims as to why the violence has continued and has never taken a step to end the violence.

Zapages - you're also missing a major piece of history regarding the establishment of Palestine. Both a Palestinian and Isreali state were established in the UN doctorine but they refused to fight for their country - instead getting absorbed into Jordan, Lebanon and Syria. When these now displaced citizens tried to overthrow the Jordanian king they were expelled and wound up in Isreal. Isreal on the other hand has been engaged in quite a few wars to defend itself and has proven to be a strong ally for deomocracy in the region. The areas the PLO claims as there's were never there's under the establishment of the Palestinian state and were in fact Egypts until they lost them in a war with Isreal. The lands that the PLO has laid claim to has never been there's and follows Arafat's remarks to "drive Isreal into the sea" and his threats of "a major explosion" in the middle east.

-Joe!
i'm posting exerpts from a website devoted to a just peace in the mid-east.
the usually accepted history is not exactly the whole story.
there apparently was good reason for the Palestinian people to not accept the Camp David deal.

here's a quote from The Washington Report on Middle East Affairs freqently asked questions page:
"Why did the Palestinians reject the Camp David Peace Proposal?
For a true and lasting peace between the Israeli and Palestinian peoples, there must be two viable
and independent states living as equal neighbors. Israel's Camp David proposal, which was never
set forth in writing, denied the Palestinian state viability and independence by dividing Palestinian
territory into four separate cantons entirely surrounded, and therefore controlled, by Israel. The
Camp David proposal also denied Palestinians control over their own borders, airspace and water
resources while legitimizing and expanding illegal Israeli colonies in Palestinian territory. Israel's
Camp David proposal presented a 're-packaging' of military occupation, not an end to military
occupation." the rest of the article (http://www.wrmea.com/html/faq.htm)



here's a view of some jewish writers on the situation:
The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict

Published by
Jews for Justice in the Middle East

As the periodic bloodshed continues in the Middle East, the search for an equitable solution
must come to grips with the root cause of the conflict. The conventional wisdom is that, even
if both sides are at fault, the Palestinians are irrational "terrorists" who have no point of view
worth listening to. Our position, however, is that the Palestinians have a real grievance: their
homeland for over a thousand years was taken, without their consent and mostly by force,
during creation of the state of Israel. And all subsequent crimes - on both sides - inevitably
follow from this original injustice.

This paper outlines the history of Palestine to show how this process occurred and what a
moral solution to the region's problems should consist of. If you care about the people of
the Middle East, Jewish and Arab, you owe it to yourself to read this account of the other side
of the historical record.

Introduction

The standard Zionist position is that they showed up in Palestine in the late 19th century to
reclaim their ancestral homeland. Jews bought land and started building up the Jewish
community there. They were met with increasingly violent opposition from the Palestinian
Arabs, presumably stemming from the Arabs' inherent anti-Semitism. The Zionists were then
forced to defend themselves and, in one form or another, this same situation continues up
to today.

The problem with this explanation is that it is simply not true, as the documentary evidence
in this booklet will show. What really happened was that the Zionist movement, from the
beginning, looked forward to a practically complete dispossession of the indigenous Arab
population so that Israel could be a wholly Jewish state, or as much as was possible. Land
bought by the Jewish National Fund was held in the name of the Jewish people and could
never be sold or even leased back to Arabs (a situation which continues to the present).

The Arab community, as it became increasingly aware of the Zionists' intentions, strenuously
opposed further Jewish immigration and land buying because it posed a real and imminent
danger to the very existence of Arab society in Palestine. Because of this opposition, the
entire Zionist project never could have been realized without the military backing of the
British. The vast majority of the population of Palestine, by the way, had been Arabic since
the seventh century A.D. (Over 1200 years)

In short, Zionism was based on a faulty, colonialist world view that the rights of the
indigenous inhabitants didn't matter. The Arabs' opposition to Zionism wasn't based on
anti-Semitism but rather on a totally reasonable fear of the dispossession of their people.

One further point: being Jewish ourselves, the position we present here is critical of Zionism
but is in no way anti-Semitic. We do not believe that the Jews acted worse than any other
group might have acted in their situation. The Zionists (who were a distinct minority of the
Jewish people until after WWII) had an understandable desire to establish a place where
Jews could be masters of their own fate, given the bleak history of Jewish oppression.
Especially as the danger to European Jewry crystalized in the late 1930's and after, the
actions of the Zionists were propelled by real desperation.

But so were the actions of the Arabs. The mythic "land without people for a people without
land" was already home to 700,000 Palestinians in 1919. This is the root of the problem, as
we shall see.
click here for the whole article (http://www.wrmea.com/jews_for_justice/)

hopefully i'm bringing a tiny bit more understanding to the world,
much love

[VashTheStampede]

Keep your opinions are like this to yourself please

Wll Excuse me for expressing my opinion that is the last thing I would want to do in AMERICA (or a message board :D ) , I hope my words didnt offend you because that is the last thing i would want to do. How dare I think I can say what I want to say, i apologize and will turn myself into the police for my EVIL thoughts. Please forgive me.

[Joe Wagner]

The Camp David deal was in fact written up and would have given the Palestinian leader 90% of what he wanted - the idea that it was 4 pieces seperated by the Isreal is in fact wrong - especially when their former Prime Minister has spoken on the topic and released the specs for the plan.

As for who has the claim to the land - well the Jewish people can actually trace their roots back past a thousand years - predating the Arab claims that have been taken. This just shows how complicated the policy of going back to the past really is. As it is the land that was set aside for Palestine and Isreal was primarily racked with chaos and had religious value to both sides. The establishment by the UN should be the mandate for claims as going back hundreds of years to stake a claim is counter-productive as both sides have substantial areas they could claim - although the Isreali claim still predates the Palestinian one.

By following the UN mandate one would discover that the areas that were set aside for Palestine were absorbed by their Arab neighbors and that Isreal owns none of these lands. The thing that is truly interesting though is that Isreal is the only nation that has returned land it won in a war and has been constantly asked to give up more of the land it won in the war of 1967 - yet no other country has ever been asked to make this sacrifice. Personally I think if the UN is going to become more involved they need a lot more neutral views toward it and should consider re-establishing Palestine exactly where it was placed before. Of course this will never happen as the UN has shown it's true colors by trying to try Sharon for war crimes and also claiming a Jenin slaughter even after Palestinian officials admitted that they had lied about the situation - blatantly admitting their estimates were off on the amount of people injured scalling back the number from 500 to 5 - less than the amount of soldiers that the Isreali troops lost.

-Joe!

[Danielle]

Originally posted by VashTheStampede


Wll Excuse me for expressing my opinion that is the last thing I would want to do in AMERICA (or a message board :D ) , I hope my words didnt offend you because that is the last thing i would want to do. How dare I think I can say what I want to say, i apologize and will turn myself into the police for my EVIL thoughts. Please forgive me.

You can express your opinion, Vash. But when you do, make sure it doesn't offend anyone else. To say that all the Moslems are responsible for the suicide bombings is discrimination.