View Full Version : Can Adult Swim be BS&P Free?
SpaceCowboy
06-01-2002, 11:11 AM
Is it possible that eventually Cartoon Network will have Adult Swim be free from the content restrictions of the BS&P? It would give the block the freedom to air a lot of good animation, both American and Japanese that would not survive outside Adult Swim unedited. Do you think CN will eventually get their way and be able to have CN labled as a "general" network rather than a "kids-only network"?
atf487
06-01-2002, 11:32 AM
What does BS&P mean? I've never figured it out :)
And I think CN is never going to go back to a general network, because of the parents who just want the network to show kid programs, so they don't have to parent them.
Not many kids are UP at 10:00/11:00 at night....and if they are, i dont think they are watching cartoon network
Killtacular
06-01-2002, 12:03 PM
Nope.
The BS&P protects Cartoon Network from being sued. They'd be fools to try and run and adult block without them.
And it's not just because of the Bureau, but because of the list of Standards and Practices that Cartoon Network originally wrote out. They're sort of stuck to that list now. I'm sure if they had a time machine, they'd go back and fix stuff.
They can only fight the BS&P so much... for now, I'd only expect them to win small victories.
Karl Olson
06-01-2002, 01:20 PM
So is the only that Adult Swim can get away with more, is if they either rewrote the rules for the whole network, or had a separate rule book for Adult Swim that was a lot more open when it came violence, sexual situations and the like?
li_mangaman
06-01-2002, 02:02 PM
To Moof
I am up watching ASA until 1:00. I saw every single ASA there is !
I am only 10-years-old! :D :bosko:
And according to the forum rules, you're not allowed to be here.
VashTheStampede
06-01-2002, 02:28 PM
Watchin AS asking about "naughty tentacles", kids today huh.
So the BS&P protects CN by enforcing the list of Standards and Practices that CN originally wrote,right?This means that BS&P has the authority to over-ride anything the CN wants to do?
Yeah,I see,I guess if CN were to air something against the guidlines,parents groups will be in their face complaining that they aren't following the"list of Standards and Practices "that they themsleves wrote.So that is why you say that they "protect" CN from being sued,right?
I guess CN couldn't rewrite it now could they?
ohmrbill
06-01-2002, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by Matt Wilson
Nope.
The BS&P protects Cartoon Network from being sued. They'd be fools to try and run and adult block without them.
And it's not just because of the Bureau, but because of the list of Standards and Practices that Cartoon Network originally wrote out. They're sort of stuck to that list now. I'm sure if they had a time machine, they'd go back and fix stuff.
They can only fight the BS&P so much... for now, I'd only expect them to win small victories.
So are you saying they could but they won't?
Oh well. All things considered, I guess it's a miracle that AS is able to get away with as much as it does. :yawn:
But why don't they scrap (or at least change) the 18+ disclaimer if they're not planning on anything too risqué any time soon? It probably limits the number of viewers for shows that are more general audience like Home Movies and Yu Yu Hakusho.
Ikwig
06-01-2002, 03:25 PM
"So the BS&P protects CN by enforcing the list of Standards and Practices that CN originally wrote,right?This means that BS&P has the authority to over-ride anything the CN wants to do?
Yeah,I see,I guess if CN were to air something against the guidlines,parents groups will be in their face complaining that they aren't following the"list of Standards and Practices "that they themsleves wrote.So that is why you say that they "protect" CN from being sued,right?
I guess CN couldn't rewrite it now could they?" - Timber X
I'm guessing they couldn't. Sigh.
If I were a network like CN and I had to write a "list of standards and practices", I would try and make it as open-ended as possible so that one could make changes as the network developed. How else is the network supposed to grow as it reaches out to new viewers?
Looks like another victim of a "short term is all we care about" planning committee. :(
Dagnabit - how do you manage that cool "quote" thing ala ohmrbill?
Joe Tully
06-01-2002, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by Ikwig
Dagnabit - how do you manage that cool "quote" thing ala ohmrbill?
You can either use the [/QUOTE] and [QUOTE] tags (the first tag closes, the second opens) or hit the Reply button on a person's post to quote the whole thing.
Opaque
06-01-2002, 04:44 PM
never. its a great idea though.
i miss katy
06-01-2002, 06:45 PM
Isn't Broadcast Standards & Practices just a department of Cartoon Network? Like all networks have? I don't think it's CN vs. BS&P, I think it's AS and Toonami vs. CN. I'm sure that CN can set their own standards, what they're working against is a long history of CN being a children's network. They have to move slowly from that. That Adult Swim exists at all means they've won the major battle, allowing mature material after 10pm. Yes, it's laughable that they air a disclaimer before shows that ran in the 8-9 hour on broadcast networks, but like I said, baby steps. Mission Hill is a major step forward, the first show with truly mature content. Sure, we're not going to see TV-MA shows anytime soon, if ever, but keep in mind that very few networks at all will show TV-MA, let alone networks that show kids programming 162 hours a week.
But to answer the original question, no, AS will never be BS&P-free, because every show that airs on Cartoon Network, just like every show that has aired in the history of television, is reviewed by that network's BS&P department.
SpaceCowboy
06-01-2002, 07:32 PM
Can CN atleast amend their guidelines to allow less restrictions on AS? I mean, I don't think they should air intensely voilent or sexual content, but not being able to air shows like The Oblongs and Mission Hill?! That's just incredibly stupid. They should atleast be allowed to air stuff just as "adult" as many other basic-cable networks like Sci Fi or TCM! They may not like the TV-MA rating, but they could atleast air some anime that diserves that rating occasionaly in an unedited form. MTV 2, TNN, and TCM can get away with airing TV-MA rated stuff in all its unedited glory.
Even though Teletoon is in Canada (where TV content is treated differently), they can air more "mature" animation without absurd editing.
Cartoon Network is the only ad-supported network I know of that treats many of their shows with respect without inserting mutiple commercial breaks (such as airing their anime with only one break) and usually doesn't cut much to fit more commercials (well, not as much as many other networks out there). CN also doesn't have any stupid pop-up ads always bouncing around the screen, just their network idenifier that lists their website.
Because of these, CN HAS great potential for airing quality-anime completely unedited and making a real break-through impressing all interested viewers.
In Britain and Italy (and possibly Canada), anime is usually aired completely unedited with the respect it deserves on basic-cable television. Now that's what I want to see on Adult Swim. It would really show how mature and how good the block can be.
Being the only network able to do it, can they? Yes.
Do they want to? No.
It's not fair!
Killtacular
06-01-2002, 09:38 PM
No, it's a department of AOLTW, not CN.
CN would love to air uneditted anime. That was their original plan. But then the BS&P stuck their heads in.
And no, they can't change the guidelines.
KingDead
06-01-2002, 10:02 PM
OK, here's the plan....get a LOT of money, buy out AOLTW and chuck out out the BS&P!
or...
We all move to some state, let's say North and South Dakota, delcare sovereignty and call ourselves something like Dakotadonoia or Freedonia (because the only reason there is two Dakotas is to make the number os states a nice even number :p :p). That way we can set the standards like in Europe and Canada and get unedited CN Freedonia! But if our own independant nation is too much, we can just find a way to be annexed by Canada.
li_mangaman
06-01-2002, 11:38 PM
what is BS&P?
Matt Hazuda
06-02-2002, 12:15 AM
Originally posted by li_mangaman
what is BS&P? Broadcast Standards & Practices.
500 posts coming soon :D :D :cool: :cool: :bosko:
i miss katy
06-02-2002, 12:30 AM
they want to be a children's network that is "adult" after 10pm (the "safe harbor" for obscene content).
Actually, obscene content is illegal under any circumstances. But your point is still clear. There's little point marketing to children in the middle of the night. That's why they have Nick At Nite, after all.
I don't think they should air intensely voilent or sexual content, but not being able to air shows like The Oblongs and Mission Hill?! That's just incredibly stupid.
Well, as you may have noticed, they are able to air Mission Hill. And The Oblongs is still on the way, I believe. BS&P isn't absolutely immutable, they just have to be wrestled with. A lot. Change is happening, slowly perhaps but also very surely. Maybe Mission Hill has to air after midnight, with two disclaimers, and the TV-14 box in the corner throughout the episode. But it's airing, and without complaint, presumably. And that makes the next series that much easier to get through.
Zorakfan
06-02-2002, 12:40 AM
Vash, please,
never, EVER mention tentacles and AS in the same sentence again.
Anyways, I'd like to see some minor altercations to CN's BS&P. I don't know, maybe just shows after 11 get a bit more freedom. I can see a lot of the AS shows getting better with looser editing standards.
gtracer72
06-02-2002, 04:23 PM
The AS block should be unedited. :) After all, it is called ADULT Swim. Plus that, they have a warning they show before each episode. And if it would make AS feel more comfortable, post a TV-MA rarting. If they don't want little kids watching it, then the parents should step in. It's late at night and the kids should be in bed.
Detra
06-02-2002, 04:42 PM
Isn't using that "Under 18" disclaimer before each episode basically equivilent to a MA rating?
ohmrbill
06-02-2002, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by Zorakfan
Vash, please,
never, EVER mention tentacles and AS in the same sentence again.
He was referring to this (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35479&perpage=20&pagenumber=1) thread, BTW.
Zorakfan
06-03-2002, 01:11 AM
Which is why I repeat:
Never mention tentacles in an anime format on the board again, please.
*Shudder*
KingKoopa
06-03-2002, 03:37 PM
damn, that thread was pure gold.
"I'm mature enough to handle this!"
Originally posted by ohmrbill
But why don't they scrap (or at least change) the 18+ disclaimer if they're not planning on anything too risqué any time soon? It probably limits the number of viewers for shows that are more general audience like Home Movies and Yu Yu Hakusho.
That way Yusuke gets to use his bad language, and everbody can talk about killing and carving out hearts and eating children's souls, and the blood doesn't have to be painted out and you can hear Kuwabara's arm get snapped into pieces. DBZ could never get away with that on Toonami, for example, even if the actual viewing audience isn't changed.
And Home Movies, even if it's pretty general, targets older audiences with the humor and some of the situations suggested. As someone's said before, "Adult" doesn't have to mean dirty or risque. We're not talking "adult novelties" here.
Speaking of that, I'm a little disturbed having a ten year old in this forum. How many of you members out there are ten year olds? Come on, be honest now. 15/16 year olds, I see that. But ten? Any eight year olds? Seven? Honestly, who is the youngest member here? I mean, if parents let you watch ASA that's fine, but this forum...
I'm just disturbed. 'nuff said.
Mecha Washu
06-03-2002, 03:48 PM
Damn I just got done reading that other thread with the 10 year old DBZ lover wanting to know about tentacle rape and jiggles, I think someone needs to put up a warning about that post like "Please note do not consume any beverages while reading this thread". I all most wasn't able to swallow my soda when I got to the "I'm mature enough to handle this!" comment.
The list of Standards and practices CAN be revised to include a "haven" for AS and worse entertainment past a certian hour. It would have to be gradual though.
ohmrbill
06-03-2002, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by Funk
That way Yusuke gets to use his bad language, and everbody can talk about killing and carving out hearts and eating children's souls, and the blood doesn't have to be painted out and you can hear Kuwabara's arm get snapped into pieces. DBZ could never get away with that on Toonami, for example, even if the actual viewing audience isn't changed.
And Home Movies, even if it's pretty general, targets older audiences with the humor and some of the situations suggested. As someone's said before, "Adult" doesn't have to mean dirty or risque. We're not talking "adult novelties" here.
You missed my point. If it is rated PG, then it should have a PG disclaimer, none of this "18 and up" crap.
Matt Hazuda
06-03-2002, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by ohmrbill
You missed my point. If it is rated PG, then it should have a PG disclaimer, none of this "18 and up" crap. WEll that's just so CN can cover all it's bases. You don't want the soccer moms rallying because they show "adult" shows on Cartoon Network. The disclaimer pretty much frees them of criticism. And yes I as well am glad that other thread was suck down. 10 year olds have no business talking about stuff like that.
It seems that the BS&P is letting CN get away with some stuff that I bet isn't in thier "list of Standards and Practices".
Just veiw shows like Mission Hill or SeaLab2021.I doubt the guidelines would even let them permit anything you see in those programs.
If the guidelines were so etched in stoned then CN couldn't even say a word to the BS&P.
That's what I've been saying. The original guidelines make "Jerkface" :bosko: a bad word. They can change.
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