edits in YYH episode 9

[livingfruitvirus]

Over at Kyle Hebert's site, I was informed that whoever Rando is in disguise at Genkai's place, the swastika tattoo on his forehead has been digitally removed.

[BADBATZ]

Originally posted by livingfruitvirus
Over at Kyle Hebert's site, I was informed that whoever Rando is in disguise at Genkai's place, the swastika tattoo on his forehead has been digitally removed.

Makes sense to me, at least, a lot more sense than when Williams St. redid Jet's pot leaf shirt.

It's not so obvious to some younger folks out there, as they'd probably just think of it as a symbol of Nazism, which would be damaging enough. But then again if Soccer Moms happened to catch it, they'd think of Charles Manson as well, and that would be a death blow to the show and maybe even the whole block. So yeah, nobody could really fault them for that edit. It was just common sense.

[Sheamon]

Proof yet again that this was never intended for mature audiences. -_- Maybe we should forget the nazis ever existed?

And of course we can't go a single thread without the cliche soccer mom response :yawn:

[Zechs]

Originally posted by BADBATZ


Makes sense to me, at least, a lot more sense than when Williams St. redid Jet's pot leaf shirt.

It's not so obvious to some younger folks out there, as they'd probably just think of it as a symbol of Nazism, which would be damaging enough. But then again if Soccer Moms happened to catch it, they'd think of Charles Manson as well, and that would be a death blow to the show and maybe even the whole block. So yeah, nobody could really fault them for that edit. It was just common sense.

I agree but not just parents a lot of people would be offended by it. Even though it is not ment to be taken in that way.

[Ravenger]

Yea.... this is one of those edits that does effect more people then the more stupider edits. The soccer moms would be the least of the worries if that got out. There would be really pissed off WWII vets, offended people of the jewish faith and so on. This is one call where I'd have to go with the guys who dubbed it out.

Smoking and drugs(which are both bad mmmkay) which people are tring to ebolish aren't really going to sit there and attack a 3 hour block of adult targeted entertainment over it.

Oh well.. rant off. I'm pooped. I think the people above me who agree with the edit speak for themselves... I'm just the kind of guy who likes to put his two cents in after the fact... mainly because this post wasn't here last night.

[Killtacular]

Shaemon, this wasn't editted out because it's for younger audiences.

It's editted out because the uncut has it.


Remember that FUNimation has to make SOME changes to entice people to get the DVD. Cause so far it's been pretty uneditted, with one or two exceptions.

[mr.apple]

Um....I've seen plenty of Nazi's on TV before.

[Sheamon]

Originally posted by Matt Wilson
Shaemon, this wasn't editted out because it's for younger audiences.

It's editted out because the uncut has it.


Remember that FUNimation has to make SOME changes to entice people to get the DVD. Cause so far it's been pretty uneditted, with one or two exceptions.

Makes sense, FUNI has a history of screwing the television audience like this. Too bad a more legit company can't get a hold of these shows.


The soccer moms would be the least of the worries if that got out. There would be really pissed off WWII vets, offended people of the jewish faith and so on. This is one call where I'd have to go with the guys who dubbed it out.

No they wouldn't. Enough of this revisionist history crap. Face the facts that the Nazis are part of world history. If we start leaving out any mention of them to be politically correct, then its just as acceptable to leave out the American Revolution, Vietnam, the Civil War, Slavery, Colonization, the Pilgrims, George Washington, the French Revolution, the Atomic Bomb, and so on... If the concept of the Nazis did offend people, it wouldn't be taught in history class. It wouldn't be copied in Gundam as the Zeons. Its not the mere concept of the Nazis thats offensive, its the ideals of the Nazis. Editing having Rando mouth off about Nazi ideals is one thing. Editing out a mere symbol in an attempt to forget the Nazis ever existed is another. People aren't that dumb. In the long run forgetting they ever existed does even more damage since remembering the Nazis reminds us of how horrible they and their ideals were. Simply ignore their existence and people might think of those ideals as acceptable.

Regardless, I doubt MW's wrong on this. FUNI has a track record of random editing for bonehead reasons that have nothing to do with content.

Come to think of it, I do remember a while back a Hindu friend telling me that the swatstika was a symbol in his religon. Who knows, it could just be that. The swatstika did exist before the Nazis, you know.

[VashTheStampede]

Would it really have enhanced the experience of the show to keep it in, no. As part of the television audience I dont feel screwed, it is not like I have not seen a swastika before.

[Jude Santos]

does it really matter if its there or not?

[randomguy]

Yeah it seems like a pretty stupid thing to ***** about seeing as how well Funi is treating YYH generally. It's one of the few edits I can fathom. It's not revisionist history I don't think (too insignificant to be revisionist history, and besides, it's not like denying NAZIs existed or anything), but simply not wanting to slap NAZI propoganda on CN cartoons. Makes sense

And yes, typically, it was a sign of peace in many asian religions, including hindu, buddhism, taoism, and shinto. How Hitler took it out of context is one of the more debatable footnotes of 20th century history.

[Sheamon]

it's not like denying NAZIs existed or anything), but simply not wanting to slap NAZI propoganda on CN cartoons. Makes sense

For the second time, talking about how good Nazi ideals are (Gihren Zabi's speeches for example) is Nazi propaganda. Showing a mere symbol, which as I mentioned, might have nothing to do with Nazis in the first place, is not.


If AS was intended for mature audiences the shows would be rated TV-MA and that isn't going to happen on CN anytime soon.

Well obviously :p :D

[Kesh]

Originally posted by Sheamon
Come to think of it, I do remember a while back a Hindu friend telling me that the swatstika was a symbol in his religon. Who knows, it could just be that. The swatstika did exist before the Nazis, you know.

Actually, this is true. Hitler chose the swastika because it was a powerful symbol in Germany and Eastern Europe. Normally, it's shown square on (i.e. flat, rather than tilted on its side the way the Nazi's had it). It's a symbol representing the four cardinal directions: North, East, South & West. It's a symbol that's used from Eastern Europe down to southeast Asia, with basically the same meaning throughout.

The Nazi's simply latched onto this as a way of emphasizing Hitler's idea that the Aryan people were destined to rule, and had the will of god behind them. They used any mystical and religious symbol they could to uplift their cause and put down others (i.e. forcing Jews to wear a Star of David to keep them ostracised).

Back on topic, I think this is still a sensitive issue for many people. WWII is still only a couple of generations behind, with many survivors around to tell their tales. So, it's hard to judge whether this was purely for PC reasons or for the company to entice buyers with 'taboo' material on the uncut DVDs.

Either way, it sucks they cut it at all. :(

[SirLemming]

I don't mind this edit. Yes, we all know that Nazis existed, but this isn't in the context of a Holocaust documentary or something. It's just "there," with no explanation, and that's what would upset people. It's just a huge thing of uncomfortability, and it really doesn't add anything. It's a really tiny thing that could cause huge problems -- I totally understand and agree with what they did here.

[livingfruitvirus]

I guess there aren't many Jews in Japan. (recalls scene from Japanese movie where a Hitler monument is present)

Servo: They took out the Hitler building!

[Zechs]

I think they did the right thing. People aren't really going to understand what it means in the Japense culter most people know as the sign for the Nazis and won't take it the way it was intened. And with the Holocaust being so recent in history can you blame them.

[Teio]

Thats the downside with the publisher editing it,they are always going to cut something out because they wan't to "intice" people to purchase the DVD.And WS wants to be safe then sorry so they are going to sometimes over edit .

They need to hire an impartial studio to do the editing.By that,they will be able to have all of there programs designed for TV-14.

[SirLemming]

Actually, now I'm remembering something. That might not even be a swastika. Did anyone ever hear the accusations that Pokémon cards had swastikas? It turns out it was actually just a Japanese symbol for good luck or something that happened to resemble a swastika. Maybe that's what it actually was, and the editors wanted to avoid such conflicts.

[Zechs]

There is also an indian tribe that uses it too I forgot what they are called.

[The Anonymous]

For one thing, I think CN was afraid of offending Jews, and they didn't want to lose any sort of audience, potential or otherwise.

If I am correct, CBS did the same thing during the 1998 Olympics in Nagamo, Japan. Behind the sports studio's window, a swastika was visible on a flag outside a temple of a religion which I am forgetting, so they moved some camera angles and people to block it out. Rather than offending Jews, they offended members of that religion.

[G1Ravage]

I remember an episode of Gargoyles in which they all ended up in Britain during World War II. There were Nazi planes flying about everywhere, and yes, even the Gargoyles mentioned "helping to fight back against the Nazis." The Nazi planes even had swastikas on their tails, but the wings had a different symbol.

[androvsky]

Maybe that's because German airplanes during WW II didn't have swastikas on the wings, but did on the tails.

http://www.geocities.com/bookie190/Index.htm

The swastika is an Indian (NOT American Indian) symbol meaning "ten thousand gods" as I recall, and is used more generically as a good luck symbol in other parts of Asia. I believe it's used in Hinduism, so you can see how someone trying to look very spiritual in a far-east religion might use it.

Besides, as mentioned elsewhere, Funimation's got to sell the uncut DVDs to the dub fans somehow (the sub fans are already there).

[G1Ravage]

Originally posted by androvsky
Maybe that's because German airplanes during WW II didn't have swastikas on the wings, but did on the tails.

http://www.geocities.com/bookie190/Index.htm

The swastika is an Indian (NOT American Indian) symbol meaning "ten thousand gods" as I recall, and is used more generically as a good luck symbol in other parts of Asia. I believe it's used in Hinduism, so you can see how someone trying to look very spiritual in a far-east religion might use it.

Besides, as mentioned elsewhere, Funimation's got to sell the uncut DVDs to the dub fans somehow (the sub fans are already there).

WOW! Thanks for showing me that! And this whole time I had thought that the producers of Gargoyles were trying to "alter" the swastika on the wings as to not offend people, but just forgot to do so on the tails. Oh wait, that would be stupid. Eh. :confused:

[JbHustler]

Originally posted by Sheamon


Makes sense, FUNI has a history of screwing the television audience like this. Too bad a more legit company can't get a hold of these shows.




No they wouldn't. Enough of this revisionist history crap. Face the facts that the Nazis are part of world history. If we start leaving out any mention of them to be politically correct, then its just as acceptable to leave out the American Revolution, Vietnam, the Civil War, Slavery, Colonization, the Pilgrims, George Washington, the French Revolution, the Atomic Bomb, and so on... If the concept of the Nazis did offend people, it wouldn't be taught in history class. It wouldn't be copied in Gundam as the Zeons. Its not the mere concept of the Nazis thats offensive, its the ideals of the Nazis. Editing having Rando mouth off about Nazi ideals is one thing. Editing out a mere symbol in an attempt to forget the Nazis ever existed is another. People aren't that dumb. In the long run forgetting they ever existed does even more damage since remembering the Nazis reminds us of how horrible they and their ideals were. Simply ignore their existence and people might think of those ideals as acceptable.

Regardless, I doubt MW's wrong on this. FUNI has a track record of random editing for bonehead reasons that have nothing to do with content.

Come to think of it, I do remember a while back a Hindu friend telling me that the swatstika was a symbol in his religon. Who knows, it could just be that. The swatstika did exist before the Nazis, you know.

Sheamon,
As much as you would like to believe Funimation screwed you over once again, we were forced to remove the swastika by the censors at Cartoon Network. Funimation tried to leave it in because we knew that it was not used in the anime to represent Nazis. We were well aware of the fact that the Swastika was in use as early as the 10th Century and that the ancient people of Japan used it as a religious symbol. But we also understood why Cartoon Network asked us to remove the swastika and had no other alternative but to comply with there wishes. It would of been easier for us to of left it in because of the time and effort it took to remove it from the show.

Also, Funimation does not try to screw over the television audience just for the fun of it. Many times there are legitimate reasons why something is edited or not edited.

Thank you!

[Sheamon]

Originally posted by JbHustler

Sheamon,
As much as you would like to believe Funimation screwed you over once again, we were forced to remove the swastika by the censors at Cartoon Network. Funimation tried to leave it in because we knew that it was not used in the anime to represent Nazis.
Thank you!

Thanks for clearing things up. Now I have yet another reason to be mad at CN and one less to be mad at FUNI. :p Always dissappointing to hear more reasons for the channel not being serious about ADULT Swim.

[livingfruitvirus]

Also, Funimation does not try to screw over the television audience just for the fun of it. Many times there are legitimate reasons why something is edited or not edited.

FUNimation has a pretty bad reputation with the fans and assumptions like this will be made. This is mostly accredited to Dragon Ball Z dubbing history.

[livingfruitvirus]

Originally posted by nothing
I had heard CN did not request any edits for this show.

Could they have had a sudden change of heart? Originally Keith Crofford said Cowboy Bebop would air uncensored. Sooner or later we find out it needs to be edited.