Why is Cartoon network last when it come to ratings

[THE 24 king]

Cartoon network is last out of the big 3 ever Saturday Morning why do you think this is.....Thanks

NICKELODEON 3.7/22 Avg. (7a-1p)
Jimmy Neutron 1.6/20; Jimmy Neutron 2.2/22; Fairly OddParents 3.0/24; Fairly OddParents 3.1/20; SpongeBob SquarePants 4.1/22; SpongeBob SquarePants 4.7/23; Penguins of Madagascar 4.5/22; Back at the Barnyard 4.0/20; Mighty B! 3.8/19; SpongeBob SquarePants 4.3/22; SpongeBob SquarePants 4.7/25; SpongeBob SquarePants 4.8/27
DISNEY CHANNEL 2.3/13 Avg. (7a-1p)
My Friends Tigger & Pooh 1.5/19; Little Einsteins 1.5/15; Special Agent Oso 1.7/13; Handy Manny 2.0/13; Mickey Mouse Clubhouse 2.1/11; Mickey Mouse Clubhouse 1.9/9; Imagination Movers 1.6/8; Handy Manny 1.7/8; Phineas and Ferb 3.5/18; Phineas and Ferb 4.2/22; Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe (145 minutes) 2.9/17
CARTOON NETWORK 1.4/9 Avg. (7a-1p)
George of the Jungle 1.0/10; Chaotic 0.9/7; Secret Saturdays 1.4/9; Pokemon: Diamond and Pearly Galactic Battle 1.8/10; Star Wars: Clone Wars 1.6/8; Ben 10: Alien Force 1.5/8; Batman: Brave & The Bold 1.7/8; Bakugan 2.0/10; Yu-Gi-Oh 5D 1.4/7; Pokemon: Diamond and Pearly Galactic Battle 1.4/7; Pokemon: Diamond and Pearly Galactic Battle 1.6/9
DISNEY XD 0.6/3 Avg. (7a-1p)
Suite Life of Zack & Cody 0.5/7; Phineas and Ferb 0.6/6; Phineas and Ferb 0.6/5; Jimmy Two Shoes 0.6/4; Kid vs. Kat 0.6/3; Zeke and Luther 0.6/3; Monster Buster Club 0.7/3; Phineas and Ferb 0.8/4; Aaron Stone 0.6/3; Aaron Stone 0.5/2; Batman: Animated 0

[veemonjosh]

Nickelodeon plays all their big Nicktoons, Disney Channel shows Playhouse Disney (along with Phineas and Ferb, their only current regular cartoon, and Narnia, a movie they premiered fairly recently), while CN has a bunch of action/toyetic cartoons aimed primarily at a specific gender/age group.

It's not hard to figure out why CN is third in cable ratings when it comes to Saturday mornings.

[MU2304]

Nickelodeon plays all their big Nicktoons, Disney Channel shows Playhouse Disney (along with Phineas and Ferb, their only current regular cartoon, and Narnia, a movie they premiered fairly recently), while CN has a bunch of action/toyetic cartoons aimed primarily at a specific gender/age group.

It's not hard to figure out why CN is third in cable ratings when it comes to Saturday mornings.

wow, way to break that down. Yeah, i completely agree, it looks like CN is basically just throwing out repeats from friday nights and shows aimed at boys in their target demographic. Perhaps if they tried to put some comedies out there. If you look at the successful blocks they are mainly comprised of comedies, be it ABC, Nick, or disney channel. I'd say they need some comedy premieres in there. Of course this would destroy HHT...so idk

[soundmonkey44]

Well Personally I think Its because CN Cares way to much about the ratings, is why they fail. I mean if a show or Block doesn't get the rateings they want they just cancel it. This causes uproar with its fans, & means they have to find a show to replace it, If CN woukld Just quit being RW's & Start caring about there Viewers again then mabye there rateing would go up!

[Old Guy]

It's not just Saturday morning. CN is in 3rd place in general. Why? Simple. Their shows just haven't connected. Spongebob, Hannah Montana, etc have wide appeal. A show like Chowder doesn't. It's a niche show. CN needs another show like Powerpuff Girls. That was a hit cause it had wide appeal. The characters were cute, so girls liked it. There was action, so boys liked it. And the humor made adults laugh. Boom! Billion dollar hit.

[dark knight 90]

It's not just Saturday morning. CN is in 3rd place in general. Why? Simple. Their shows just haven't connected. Spongebob, Hannah Montana, etc have wide appeal. A show like Chowder doesn't. It's a niche show. CN needs another show like Powerpuff Girls. That was a hit cause it had wide appeal. The characters were cute, so girls liked it. There was action, so boys liked it. And the humor made adults laugh. Boom! Billion dollar hit.

Yeah... this definitely seems to be the problem!

[Silverstar]

It's not just Saturday morning. CN is in 3rd place in general. Why? Simple. Their shows just haven't connected. Spongebob, Hannah Montana, etc have wide appeal. A show like Chowder doesn't. It's a niche show. CN needs another show like Powerpuff Girls. That was a hit cause it had wide appeal. The characters were cute, so girls liked it. There was action, so boys liked it. And the humor made adults laugh. Boom! Billion dollar hit.


You have a point, but I think you're over-simplifying things just a bit. It's not as easy as just saying "Cartoon Network needs another show like the Powerpuff Girls". Really, how often does a major cross-genre hit show happen? A SpongeBob, Powerpuff Girls or Hanna Montana style mega-hit comes along once, maybe twice every 10 years or so, it doesn't occur every day. NO network has an entire cabal of PPG-sized hits. That just doesn't happen. There's no way anyone can determine beforehand which shows are going to strike gold with a multitude of viewers and which ones aren't. If coming up with the next big hit were that easy, then every network would have one.

Cartoon Network needs to stop focusing so much on becoming #1 and stick to their guns. They may not have ever been Top Dog during what many consider to be their "peak years", around 1995 to 2002, but they had many loyal and satisfied viewers, and hardly anyone was complaining about the channel. They need to strive for a resurgance of that level of quality, while still pioneering.

[AJ1]

It's not just Saturday morning. CN is in 3rd place in general. Why? Simple. Their shows just haven't connected. Spongebob, Hannah Montana, etc have wide appeal. A show like Chowder doesn't. It's a niche show. CN needs another show like Powerpuff Girls. That was a hit cause it had wide appeal. The characters were cute, so girls liked it. There was action, so boys liked it. And the humor made adults laugh. Boom! Billion dollar hit.

Another reason is that Nick has been around longer than CN and parents of today probably just turn their televisions to Nick so their kids have something to watch, not really thinking that there are other networks that air cartoons and kid shows. About the Spongebob/Chowder thing, I don't see where Chowder is any different from Spongebob when it comes to mass appeal, both shows are somewhat similar and both offer child and adult humor. Spongebob happens to be on the more popular of the two networks and he came out right as the older Nickelodeon cartoons were dying out so I think people were looking for something new.

[Dr.Pepper]

It's not just Saturday morning. CN is in 3rd place in general. Why? Simple. Their shows just haven't connected. Spongebob, Hannah Montana, etc have wide appeal. A show like Chowder doesn't. It's a niche show. CN needs another show like Powerpuff Girls. That was a hit cause it had wide appeal. The characters were cute, so girls liked it. There was action, so boys liked it. And the humor made adults laugh. Boom! Billion dollar hit.
I honestly think that Chowder has just a wide of appeal as Spongebob does. Also I really don't see Hannah Montana as wide appeal. I think it's just a smash hit with girls ages 9-14. I didn't know that show had fans in their 40's or anything.

[Old Guy]

A SpongeBob, Powerpuff Girls or Hanna Montana style mega-hit comes along once, maybe twice every 10 years

It's true that every show isn't gonna be a billion dollar hit. But not every show needs to be a billion dollar hit. Nick has other shows that do well. And Disney too. CN has none because their shows are too niche. They need to make shows with wide appeal. I'm not saying that show is gonna make a billion dollars a year, but it doesn't need to. If it's a top 5 show and makes a $100 million for them then that's good too.

parents of today probably just turn their televisions to Nick so their kids have something to watch

I doubt there's parents that controlling. It's easy to put child block on the adult channels and then giving the kid the remote so they can watch which ever channel isn't blocked.

I honestly think that Chowder has just a wide of appeal as Spongebob does.

Sort of. I mean...if you watch it then you can see where the appeal is, but it's not an easy show to market. It looks kinda weird. Kids see an ad for the show and think, "what the heck is that?" With Spongebob it's just a sponge who lives under the sea. What's not to get? You can market that.

Also I really don't see Hannah Montana as wide appeal. I think it's just a smash hit with girls ages 9-14. I didn't know that show had fans in their 40's or anything.It has a wide appeal in the sense that most girls like the show. Just cause a show is for girls doesn't mean every girl is gonna like it. The show has to feature something that appeals to all of them and then be good so they stick around.

[Master Moron]

It's because whenever Cartoon Network finds a hit, they don't know what to do with it. Whenever a hit show reaches a certain amount of episodes, they toss it and move on to something else. Cartoon Network will never have a hit like Spongebob because they'll get rid of their shows before they ever grow that big.

[Antiyonder]

To answer the title question:

1. New kid on the block: Both the Disney Channel and Nickelodeon have been around longer than Cartoon Network (April of 1983 and December of 1977 respectively) and naturally are more famous.

2. Brand name: The Disney Channel has the edge of having the Disney name alone which CN doesn't have.

3. Support from the parent companies: Other networks owned or used by Disney will advertise for the Disney Channel in the event that some viewers are unaware of it. If Nickelodeon wants to air an acquisition, Viacom will take care of the details such as cost of said show.

CN on the other hand has no support from WB. The CW and TBS for instance do not advertise the network's presence, nor do they cover the cost of acquisitions. Even worse is that they actually have to pay WB or DC comics for airing one of their shows on the network even though they are part of the same corporation.

4. Other than Star Wars Clone Wars and CN Real, you don't see much enthusiam displayed towards the advertisement of a Cartoon Network show. If you want the viewers to watch, you need to put some excitement into advertising the new shows regularly.

[Dudley]

I know this probably doesn't effect ratings since this was a recent change, but Cartoon Network is now available in less homes in some regions (D.C. in particular), as it's no longer part of the basic cable package.
I don't know if that's like that in other areas though.

[Daxdiv]

That's strange, and now makes me want to convert my cable provider even more, especially since they took away a few channels on the basic plan/No Box, like Sci-Fi/SyFy. It kind of sucks that they're like "Sorry, can't have this channel unless you upgrade to a box."

Guess I should take my brother advice and enjoy CN in my room while I still can if this actually does happen.

[Sketch]

There are many reasons why CN remains last most of it having to do with not having a solid hit in a while and basically short changing shows that show promise before their time. But that's only part of the problem.

Cartoon Network isn't sure what it wants to be which alienates audiences. Nick and Disney know how to make entertaining live action shows, CN kinda doesn't but that shouldn't be a surprised.

Brand loyalty speaks volumes as well. Nick is the first kids network and it never strayed from that identity. It built loyalty and had quality programing often enough to keep things interesting for long time viewers. Each new generation of kids will be interested in what their sibblings watch and if their sibblings watch Nick or Disney that's what they're going to watch.

CN once had an edge and it's hard to say what did it back then but it could have a lot to do with knowing what they were and having the interest of the viewers. Though they were always niche they had a strong audience because it wasn't too long ago when cartoons were the it thing I guess.

The other factor is parents don't trust CN. Especially ever since Adult Swim came along. They know they can leave Disney and Nick on all day and night and not be concerned with their kids seeing anything too edgy. CN's claim to fame has probably always been edge but once they pushed away the viewers that wanted edgier material or handed them over to Adult Swim they gave up their hold on that audience and they will probably never get it back. So they are left with trying to pick up the pieces of what hasn't been working so far because kids don't flock to them and parents don't approve of them. Now I'm not saying all parents don't like CN that's far from the case but it's been a hot button with vocal parental groups for a while now (mind you these people don't have a clue but their vote apparently matters).

So CN has a lot of things that keep it from being a true competitor to Nick or Disney and so far they've done little to change any of those things and more so strayed away from fixing those things with their notions that imitating the other guys will get them what they want.

Hopefully some day they'll figure it out. I don't admit to know how they can get back in the game but liking what they are sure wouldn't hurt.

[Old Guy]

1. New kid on the block:

The channel has been around for 17 years. You make it sound like if it premiered the other day. To a generation of kids, CN has always been around.


The other factor is parents don't trust CN. Especially ever since Adult Swim came along.

Adult Swim doesn't start till 10pm. A kid should be asleep by then.

[Sketch]

Yes they should but they aren't considering how high the 2-11 ratings for Adult Swim can be. Parents let their kids stay up late especially on the weekends and during the summer but even on school nights they seem to be up pretty late. It's kind of disturbing to me honestly.

When I was a kid bed time was pretty early starting at I think 7PM then it gradually moved an hour until I could stay up until I think 10PM or 11PM and then by that point my parents just assumed I wouldn't stay up because I knew better and most of the time I did go to sleep by then. Come High School I had more free range of my schedule but still couldn't stay up rediculously late but would to finish assignments and occasionally watch Adult Swim.

But I digress... Kids stay up late and even without Adult Swim CN plays TV-14 programing on occasion and PG programing regularly. But parents seem to find even CN's Y7-FV programing objectionable for one reason or another.

[Old Guy]

Yes they should but they aren't considering how high the 2-11 ratings for Adult Swim can be. Parents let their kids stay up late especially on the weekends and during the summer but even on school nights they seem to be up pretty late. It's kind of disturbing to me honestly.

Then those parents have nothing to complain about. Even Nick isn't airing children shows during those hours.

[lemonhead75]

Well Personally I think Its because CN Cares way to much about the ratings, is why they fail. I mean if a show or Block doesn't get the rateings they want they just cancel it. This causes uproar with its fans, & means they have to find a show to replace it, If CN woukld Just quit being RW's & Start caring about there Viewers again then mabye there rateing would go up!
Good ratinga would come so much easier if CN would just air what the people like.

[soundmonkey44]

Good ratinga would come so much easier if CN would just air what the people like.


Thats Much Easier Said then done. Plus CN Doesn't really care about its origional fans anymore they just want to be another generic TWEEN Channel. But whatever, Ive Accepted CN may never be Truly good again (& that origionals & Anime are now in the Minority) But At least CN will always have a few Watchable Shows. & this is another reason why it can't beat hte big 2. It never shows an equal amont of a genre anymore if it had classics, comedy, action & anime like it used to it would still be a contender but as long as it focuses on YTV Acquasitons & that oxymorinic CN live Im afraid the network will always be in 3rd or 4th place. I mean I would'nt be supprised to see XD beating it weekly in another year or 2 if CN Keeps its current state of mind wich is "Get good rating, get good ratings, the shows not getting its quota drop it, the blocks not doing as well as we want, drop it!" As long as CN has this attitude it'll keep on losing to Disney & Nick EVERY TIME!:radda:

[Dr.Pepper]

Yes they should but they aren't considering how high the 2-11 ratings for Adult Swim can be. Parents let their kids stay up late especially on the weekends and during the summer but even on school nights they seem to be up pretty late. It's kind of disturbing to me honestly.
Even though I am sure there are a few bad parents that let their kids stay up to midnight on a school night watching TV-14 rated shows, but with time zones AS starts a 5pm in Hawaii.

[Tora Yakari]

I think it needs to market towards every demographic. And I mean EVERY demographic. That means boys, girls, little kids, preteens, teens, college students and adults. Why is Nickelodeon so successful? Because it has Nick Jr. - for the little kids, regular Nickelodeon - for kids, preteens and teens, and Nick @ Nite - for adults.

It doesn't need live action or reality shows, it needs more shows in general to market toward different audiences. Right now CN is marketing toward young and tween boys, and that's about it. If they get some shows in for young and tween girls and teens, they'll have it made, since they got Adult Swim for the college crowd and adults.
I know they're supposed to have Boomerang for this but I really think they should air old stuff again, even if its 80s shows. Rerun some Jem and Holograms or My Little Pony for the girls, dammit!
Also what's wrong with rerunning the 90s shows? There's gonna be more kids who've never seen it and older people who saw it as kids and still love watching it for the nostalgia. Bring back Powerpuff Girls and some of those shows!
Woo... that kinda turned into a rant. Oh well!

[Dr.Pepper]

Another reason may be the amount of TV-PG rated shows. This wouldn't be a big deal for kids who are like 10, but for younger kids. I know if I had a five year old I would rather have them watch Spongebob or Phineas & Ferb than TDI or 6Teen.

[Daxdiv]

Another reason may be the amount of TV-PG rated shows. This wouldn't be a big deal for kids who are like 10, but for younger kids. I know if I had a five year old I would rather have them watch Spongebob or Phineas & Ferb than TDI or 6Teen.

Consider that I watched some shows that would be consider PG before I was ten, I don't think that's the case.

[Dr.Pepper]

Consider that I watched some shows that would be consider PG before I was ten, I don't think that's the case.
Well so did I, but with me it was stuff that I watched with my parents, not just some random reality series in the middle of the day. I am not saying its a major factor or anything.

[Old Guy]

I think it needs to market towards every demographic. And I mean EVERY demographic. That means boys, girls, little kids, preteens, teens, college students and adults. Why is Nickelodeon so successful? Because it has Nick Jr. - for the little kids, regular Nickelodeon - for kids, preteens and teens, and Nick @ Nite - for adults.

Yes. That's the reason why Nick is #1. But Nick is the only one doing that. Disney mostly markets girls yet their ratings are WAY higher than CN. That's like saying that Lifetime gets better ratings than Spike TV. CN needs good shows that appeal to a wide audience. That's it.

[Rho]

Even though I am sure there are a few bad parents that let their kids stay up to midnight on a school night watching TV-14 rated shows, but with time zones AS starts a 5pm in Hawaii.
Unless they have a provider that broadcasts CN at normal time for the Hawaii time zone.

[The Wolverine]

Even though I am sure there are a few bad parents that let their kids stay up to midnight on a school night watching TV-14 rated shows, but with time zones AS starts a 5pm in Hawaii.

That would be true if they aired the east coast feed of CN there.

Most western states (including Alaska and Hawaii) air CN West by default.

[judyindisguise]

CN has yet to find its Spongebob. And recently it's lost its identity. I used to think of it as a channel that provided unique cartoons like Samurai Jack and Dexter. Those were both excellent and had great potential to expand into huge franchises. But CN has a habit of dropping the ball on most of its series. It's like it treats all its toons as filler, instead of recognizing potential and developing it. CN just greenlights a cartoon, runs it for awhile, then discards it and greenlights another. So we see Dexter and Jack fall by the wayside and get replaced by junk like Gym Partner and George of the Jungle. Similarly, CN's big brother Adult Swim dumps anime and replaces it with absolute crud like the Squidbillies. Blah. CN deserves to be in last place.

[Dr.Pepper]

Most western states (including Alaska and Hawaii) air CN West by default.
Oh okay, but still AS will come on at 8 in Hawaii.

[Sketch]

Yeah but that's not how they manage to get so many 2-11 viewers.

[Jay Stephens]

One thing I noticed is that the bulk of Nick's shows are a decade old (Odd Parents-1998, Spongebob-1999, Jimmy Neutron-2002), giving them a very long time to grow and build a loyal audience. When I was in development at CN, I was told that 5 years was the absolute maximum my show would run, because by then "a new generation of kids will be looking for something new and fresh". It's that kind of logic that has CN dropping shows, or radically changing ones that are already proven hits, like Ben 10. Granted, it's no easy task to keep a show going with fresh ideas for a decade, but it clearly pays off if you can do it.

[Mickialla]

One thing I noticed is that the bulk of Nick's shows are a decade old (Odd Parents-1998, Spongebob-1999, Jimmy Neutron-2002), giving them a very long time to grow and build a loyal audience. When I was in development at CN, I was told that 5 years was the absolute maximum my show would run, because by then "a new generation of kids will be looking for something new and fresh". It's that kind of logic that has CN dropping shows, or radically changing ones that are already proven hits, like Ben 10. Granted, it's no easy task to keep a show going with fresh ideas for a decade, but it clearly pays off if you can do it.

Well actually, Fairly OddParents officially became a show in 2001 if I'm correct, but the pilot was shown in 1998 on Oh Yeah! Cartoons. But yeah, you're right. Cartoon Network doesn't give its shows enough time to grow. Spongebob and Rugrats, which are arguably Nick's greatest successes, didn't become successful from the get go. A lot of shows have potential to be great if they can just get on their feet, but by the time that happens, they end up getting cancelled.

[chdr]

One thing I noticed is that the bulk of Nick's shows are a decade old (Odd Parents-1998, Spongebob-1999, Jimmy Neutron-2002), giving them a very long time to grow and build a loyal audience. When I was in development at CN, I was told that 5 years was the absolute maximum my show would run, because by then "a new generation of kids will be looking for something new and fresh". It's that kind of logic that has CN dropping shows, or radically changing ones that are already proven hits, like Ben 10. Granted, it's no easy task to keep a show going with fresh ideas for a decade, but it clearly pays off if you can do it.Nick is no better than CN when it comes to letting shows go. If a new show isn't as popular as Spongebob or FOP or Neutron, they cancel after two or so seasons and then shaft them quickly, like Tak, or El Tigre, or The X's.

[soundmonkey44]

another reason CN comes in lat can be summed up in one word...SNYDER! Thats right i went there.:radda:

Oh & they don't give some of there shows enough of a chance to become super big, unless its one they try to force to become big like clone wars, total drama or CNLIVE, & we all know shoving a show down someones throat is a bad thing. weahter its one u like or not.:sweat::p:evil:

[chdr]

another reason CN comes in lat can be summed up in one word...SNYDER! Thats right i went there.:radda:

Oh & they don't give some of there shows enough of a chance to become super big, unless its one they try to force to become big like clone wars, total drama or CNLIVE, & we all know shoving a show down someones throat is a bad thing. weahter its one u like or not.:sweat::p:evil:CN was last long before Snyder got there. In fact, with the exception of DBZ, CN has always been last place. If anything, Snyder's done more for the network ratings-wise than any other exec in recent history.

And Nick shoves Spongebob and iCarly in their viewer's throuats all the time and they seem to be doing just fine.

[DarthGonzo]

Why? Isn't it obvious? Nick and Disney are household names in ways CN could never hope to be, and they've been at it for far longer. They've developed firm reputations for popular, family friendly programming and many of the franchises that have come out of both channels have become phenomenally popular. Besides, Disney Channel is an offshoot of a company that's stood for quality entertainment for almost a century. There's no beating that. Nick, meanwhile, has Viacom's synergy behind it and (unlike CN) they know who they are and what audience they're after.

There should be no question as to why CN is number 3, really.

[Ijin]

CN does back because they have no identity. They're just trying to copy everyone else.

They were a lot better off when they had their old school action cartoons, originals, and the plethora of Anime it showed. (and of course Toonami)

There were several things that you'd see and identify with CN. Now, some of the shows could be mistaken for a Nick show (Chowder comes to mind) if you didn't realize what channel you had it on. Hell, their best show, Flapjack, is getting shaft treatment compared to stuff like that Real crap they're introducing.

They're run by morons.

[The Wolverine]

They were a lot better off when they had their old school action cartoons, originals, and the plethora of Anime it showed. (and of course Toonami)
Except they were still in third place.

[Antiyonder]

Except they were still in third place.

Yes, but they had better ratings than they do now. And even then, we've already established that there are plenty of reasons for them being in 3rd place that a medium change couldn't remedy.

[Ijin]

Except they were still in third place.

They were still in a better position than they are now.

[chdr]

Yes, but they had better ratings than they do now. And even then, we've already established that there are plenty of reasons for them being in 3rd place that a medium change couldn't remedy.No, they aren't. CN actually acknowledged that in one of their recent press releases when they said that they beat their previous highest-rated telecast, a new episode of PPG.

[Ijin]

No, they aren't. CN actually acknowledged that in one of their recent press releases when they said that they beat their previous highest-rated telecast, a new episode of PPG.

Beat it with what?

[chdr]

Beat it with what?The finale of Total Drama Island.

[Master Moron]

No, they aren't. CN actually acknowledged that in one of their recent press releases when they said that they beat their previous highest-rated telecast, a new episode of PPG.

So what? That's one show.

[The Wolverine]

So what? That's one show.
Doesn't matter.

[The Overlord]

So what? That's one show.

But if you check the ratings thread, overall their ratings have gone up in the last year, compared to 2005-2007.

The real problem is almost no animated series (save for Spongebob and few exceptions) can't complete those damn kid coms that Nick and Disney make, that's what really hurts TV animation these days.

[Antiyonder]

But if you check the ratings thread, overall their ratings have gone up in the last year, compared to 2005-2007.

Even if one show is performing the best ratings, they still have trouble maintaining a strong viewership.

The real problem is almost no animated series (save for Spongebob and few exceptions) can't complete those damn kid coms that Nick and Disney make, that's what really hurts TV animation these days.

That's because Nick and Disney have the sense to make their shows look cool. And doing the In stuff is more important to viewers in general than it is to be entertained.

And that's why CN was more successful back then. Their advertisements give viewers the impression that watching cartoons are cool. You have to appeal to their vanity before they will watch.

[Dudley]

And that's why CN was more successful back then. Their advertisements give viewers the impression that watching cartoons are cool. You have to appeal to their vanity before they will watch.

That makes perfect sense.

Cartoon Network's identity was much MUCH better than what they have now. Cartoon Network back then didn't pander to kids at all, their ads for their shows were at the same maturity and cleverness that can be found on a non-children's network.

But now, all we get are lame commercials that aren't clever at all.

I miss the Powerhouse era.

[Silverstar]

Why? Isn't it obvious? Nick and Disney are household names in ways CN could never hope to be, and they've been at it for far longer. They've developed firm reputations for popular, family friendly programming and many of the franchises that have come out of both channels have become phenomenally popular. Besides, Disney Channel is an offshoot of a company that's stood for quality entertainment for almost a century. There's no beating that. Nick, meanwhile, has Viacom's synergy behind it and (unlike CN) they know who they are and what audience they're after.

There should be no question as to why CN is number 3, really.

This is all very true. Due to the above factors, Cartoon Network has been 3rd for some time, and short of a programming miracle, they will continue to be 3rd.

But here's the thing: during the era that many consider to be the network's peak, 1995-2002, CN was still 3rd but it was airing great and diverse shows and had a loyal, strong and devoted following. I know this isn't how Suits think, but that should mean more to CN than numbers. Cartoon Network could remain in 3rd place and still be a much better channel than they are now or are heading towards being.

[KITT1982]

The problem of television today in general that there is no creativity in many television shows. Most TV shows are just carbon copy's of one another the suits are more concerned with greed and ratings then what their views want. They forgot that the customer is always right. TV sucks today for many reasons. Cartoon Network, The Sci Fi Channel, MTV, VH1, NBCU have lost their identities, the focus of who they are, and that alienates their viewership. These Companies are run by politically correct morons.

MTV: Music television they don't even play music any more they now show mostly reality TV shows and MTV2 starting to do the same.

Nickelodeon has only two shows SpongeBob and ICarly that their viewers like a whole lot. They used to have ten times as much TV shows and specials, back in the day that was entertaining: slime time live, stick stickly, Snick and etc. Nickelodeon has not cared about the kids since 2000 with the canceling of Snick that was the beginning of the end the golden era. nick used to have higher ratings then they have now

NBC, and ABC does not let their Sci Fi shows a chance to succeed or if does well they cancel it any way because it defies their political beliefs
or they put in a dead mans time slot which means imitate doom from the start Monday nights at 10pm EST and Wednesday nights at 8pm EST

Sci Fi channel: A channel that does not show Sci Fi and is now changing to Syfy (very political correct)

Since NBCU took over USA Network and The Sci Fi Channel in 2004
they took off or destroyed more Sci Fi shows then I can count

Cartoon Network is going down the same wrong path. I just wonder what they are going to change their name to.

[Mickialla]

But here's the thing: during the era that many consider to be the network's peak, 1995-2002, CN was still 3rd but it was airing great and diverse shows and had a loyal, strong and devoted following. I know this isn't how Suits think, but that should mean more to CN than numbers. Cartoon Network could remain in 3rd place and still be a much better channel than they are now or are heading towards being.

I'm pretty sure that Cartoon Network regularly tied with Disney Channel for 2nd back then. But yeah, there was quality was still much better.

[Master Moron]

But if you check the ratings thread, overall their ratings have gone up in the last year, compared to 2005-2007.


Okay, now that the second quarter ratings have been released, it's time to nip this one in the bud(butt?). The ratings were definitely higher in 2007 than they are now:

2 Quarter 2008 Year-to-Year Comparison: Top Ten Total Day Rankings among K6-11 (000) 3/31-6/29/08 vs. 4/2-7/1/07, Cable Networks Only:
Network: (000) % diff
NICK° : 649 -1%
DSNY: 516 -9%
CARTOON** : 358 -14%
NAN* : 229 -3%
ADSM** : 124 -36%
TOON DIS.: 63 -17%
NICKTOONS: 41 +21%
DISCOVERY: 34 -23%
MTV: 27 -23%
THE N: 23 -4%
BET: 23 -21%
°Nickelodeon Total Day 6a-11p
*NAN Total Day 9p-6a
**Cartoon Network & Adult Swim share channel space ADSM airs Sat.-Thurs. 11p-6a
The networks listed are mostly those cable networks that regularly appear on the K6-11 weekly ranking charts.
Source: Disney Research from Star Media Multitrak Reporting System Live+7 Blended with Live+SD from 10/16/2006 to date; Data prior to 12/26/2005 is based on Live Viewing

Compared to second quarter last year, CN is down in double-digits again. Although when you look at the rest of the networks, the only one to post any gain is Nicktoons Network.

Monthly Year-to-Year Comparison: Total Day Rankings among K6-11 (000) 3/30-6/30/09 vs. 3/31-6/29/08, Cable Networks Only:
Network: (000) %diff
NICK° : 631 -3%
DSNY: 597 +15%
CARTOON: 341 -5%
NAN*: 217 -5%
ADSM**: 140 +13%
DXD: 88 +40%
NOGGIN: 57 +39%
NICKTOONS: 53 +29%
DISCOVERY: 31 -11%
THE N: 29 +26%
BET: 29 +26%
°Nickelodeon Total Day 6a-11p
*NAN Total Day 9p-6a
**Cartoon Network & Adult Swim share channel space ADSM airs Sat.-Thurs. 11p-6a
The networks listed are mostly those cable networks that regularly appear on the K6-11 weekly ranking charts.
Source: Disney Research from Star Media Multitrak Reporting System Live+7 Blended with Live+SD from 10/16/2006 to date; Data prior to 12/26/2005 is based on Live Viewing


Looks like CN was down in the second quarter.

Now, if my math is correct, Cartoon Network had an average of 416,000 viewers in 2007, whereas now they only have 341,000. Of course, I don't know about 2005 and 2006 as the ratings threads didn't go back that far.

[TheVofSteel]

nick used to have higher ratings then they have now


I'm not so sure about that. Nick is currently the highest rated network on all of cable, including the digital/satellite channels. Nick usually has at least five spots in the top 20 every week. Viacom's Nick press site says:

''Overall, Nickelodeon closes second quarter as basic cable's top total day network for kids and total viewers (P2+), marking its 15th consecutive year as cable's leading network during total day. Year to date, Nickelodeon also maintains double-digit leads over competitors and is the number-one total day network with its key demographics (kids 2-11, kids 6-11, tweens 9-14, persons 2+).''

Nick did get good ratings back in the day, and I agree that they aren't as creative with their blocks and such as they were back then, but you can't deny that a ton of people still watch it.

[The Overlord]

Okay, now that the second quarter ratings have been released, it's time to nip this one in the bud(butt?). The ratings were definitely higher in 2007 than they are now:





Now, if my math is correct, Cartoon Network had an average of 416,000 viewers in 2007, whereas now they only have 341,000. Of course, I don't know about 2005 and 2006 as the ratings threads didn't go back that far.

First of all that shows that all Cable networks went down and second it seemed that the ratings from late 2008 were far better in places then in 2007: http://www.animationinsider.net/article.php?articleID=1860

http://www.timewarner.com/corp/newsroom/pr/0,20812,1854518,00.html

http://www.ajc.com/services/content/business/stories/2009/04/15/cartoon_network_ratings.html

http://www.thefutoncritic.com/news.aspx?id=20090127cartoon01

[MegaSonic55]

Prime Time Average Viewers (June 29-July 5th)
Network (000s)
TNT 2,751
DSNY 2,560
USA 2,432
FOXN 1,896
NAN 1,702
TBSC 1,538
FX 1,396
CNN 1,326
FOOD 1,223
DISC 1,219
HALL 1,197
FAM 1,177
BET 1,104
SPK 1,085
HGTV 1,083
ESPN 1,081
HIST 1,075
A&E 1,070
TOON 1,062
SYFY 1,034

Total Day Average Viewers (Live+SD)
Network (000s)
NICK 2,217
DSNY 1,957
NAN 1,652
TNT 1,310
USA 1,296
ADSM 1,172
FOXN 1,150
TOON 936
TBSC 850
CNN 820
FX 814
DISC 740
SPK 731
FOOD 709
HIST 678
A&E 649
TRU 647
ESPN 643
FAM 633
HALL 621

Numbers from this last week. Cartoon Network is continuing it's decline it looks like.

[ShadowCat2000]

Because Bruce Timm is making direct-to-DVD movies instead of a new DCAU cartoon.

[Blackstar]

Because Bruce Timm is making direct-to-DVD movies instead of a new DCAU cartoon.


Bruce Timm wasn't solely responsible for the DCAU, just so you know, and CN's ratings were behind Nick's and Disney's even during the DCAU's run on the network, so that theory holds no water.

[ShadowCat2000]

Bruce Timm wasn't solely responsible for the DCAU, just so you know, and CN was behind Nick and Disney even during the DCAU's run on the network, so that theory holds no water.\

We now know that neither DCAU shows or crappy hacked up anime dubs or edited AS dubs that add in language and innuendo into Japanese children show's like Bleach can save the channel.

[hobbyfan]

It's not just Saturday morning. CN is in 3rd place in general. Why? Simple. Their shows just haven't connected. Spongebob, Hannah Montana, etc have wide appeal. A show like Chowder doesn't. It's a niche show. CN needs another show like Powerpuff Girls. That was a hit cause it had wide appeal. The characters were cute, so girls liked it. There was action, so boys liked it. And the humor made adults laugh. Boom! Billion dollar hit.

Another reason why Chowder, to use your example, doesn't connect may be the fact that viewers are turned off by the odd artistic style employed on the show. The animators are trying to do both flash and traditional animation, and it gets caught somewhere in between. Take Chowder's wardrobe, for example. It's animated one way, while Chowder and the other characters are hand drawn.

CN is in the fix it's in because of the cash-first suits running the channel. I don't see a problem with replaying the Friday night block on SatAM, largely because some folks, like myself, have other things to watch on Fridays (i.e. Smackdown).

[StoicLion]

The problem is that Cartoon Network (I refuse to use the abbreviated initials) is trying to beat Disney Channel and Nickelodeon at their own game. Instead of staying true to its original mission, the network is desperately trying to be another tweeny network with the same whiny it-stars of the month in idiotic sitcoms. By doing so, the network's current leadership has eroded brand identity. What does Cartoon Network stand for now? What does it represent? I'm not totally ignorant of the trial-and-error nature of programming but these live-action shows will not make the network stand out among its competitors...most it view it as more of the same.

Sadly, the last original program the network had was Class of 3000 and that was cancelled about a year after premiering.

[Spaceman]

Sadly, the last original program the network had was Class of 3000 and that was cancelled about a year after premiering.

Chowder?
Flapjack?
Secret Saturdays?
Adventure Time? (upcoming)
SymBionic Titan? (upcoming)
Generator Rex? (upcoming)

Those aren't originals?

[Chazooma]

Chowder?
Flapjack?
Secret Saturdays?
Adventure Time? (upcoming)
SymBionic Titan? (upcoming)
Generator Rex? (upcoming)

Those aren't originals?
Ben 10, and I think Transformers Animated were originals too.
How come all 7 of these don't count?

[Kaveh77]

Disney XD beat CN twice when they showed P and F and Cn Showed pokemon.

[Dudley]

Disney XD beat CN twice when they showed P and F and Cn Showed pokemon.

Dang, Pokemon's ratings have to be REAL bad for them to lose to a network that few people get.

[peterg14]

Dang, Pokemon's ratings have to be REAL bad for them to lose to a network that few people get.

To be fair, its Phineas and Ferb that usually beats whatever CN has playing. That's like Total Drama Island/Action beating whatever Nick or Disney has playing, it just means that one show beat whatever the other shows had playing at the time.

So that doesn't mean the overall day of Disney XD is better than CN's, its still pretty low.

[Candice Suzana]

Disney XD beat CN twice when they showed P and F and Cn Showed pokemon.

Was it on a Saturday?

[chdr]

Yes.

[MHF03]

Im not part of the target demographic for Cartoon Network and no longer watch it but not because I'm too "mature" for cartoons ;)

Its mostly because I miss the old shows I grew up with like Dexter's Laboratory, Johnny Bravo, Powerpuff Girls, and Samurai Jack.

Most of the cartoon shows they have are of no interest to me such as cartoons aimed at the preteen crowd dealing with high school cliques and so on.

I think Cartoon Network could bring back some old viewers if they had a late night time slot for retro cartoons, but I can understand why they wouldn't.

[Blackstar]

Im not part of the target demographic for Cartoon Network and no longer watch it but not because I'm too "mature" for cartoons ;)

Its mostly because I miss the old shows I grew up with like Dexter's Laboratory, Johnny Bravo, Powerpuff Girls, and Samurai Jack.

I'm guessing that you don't have Boomerang, which is too bad, since all of the shows that you mentioned (with the exception of Samurai Jack) are currently running on Boom.

I'm not trying to come down on you or anything, but "I miss the old shows" really isn't a good excuse not to bother with the current ones. There were plenty of duds from that era too. For every Dexter's Lab, there was a Mike, Lu and Og. For every Powerpuff Girls, there was a Time Squad. For every Samurai Jack, there was a Hi Hi Puffy Ami Yumi. For every Johnny Bravo, there was a Whatever Happened to Robot Jones?. People wearing nostalgia goggles tend to forget that every era has it's share of treasure and trash.

Most of the cartoon shows they have are of no interest to me such as cartoons aimed at the preteen crowd dealing with high school cliques and so on. Well, in the network's defense, the only show that Cartoon Network has that even remotely follows the afforementioned formula is 6Teen, which is a 3rd party acquisition, not a CN original. And 6Teen barely counts as such, since we never see the kids in school.

I'm guessing by the above generalization that you haven't actually seen many of CN's original shows. I sincerely hope that you're not one of those "retro snobs" (fans who follow the "everything old is good, everything new is bad" mentality). I would suggest that you at least watch shows like The Secret Saturdays, Chowder and The Marvelous Misadventures of Flapjack before passing judgment on them, or dismissing them as being trash just because they were made after "your" era.
I think Cartoon Network could bring back some old viewers if they had a late night time slot for retro cartoons, but I can understand why they wouldn't.Lots of people want that, but I don't see it happening. Adult Swim is apparently doing too well for CN to drop it. Plus Turner doesn't seem to think that there's a need to show retro toons on Cartoon Network anymore now that they have an entire channel that shows nothing but old school CN reruns.

[MHF03]

I have tried the other shows, but they weren't interesting for me to watch the entire show. I watch TV at random times like most people and whenever I tune into Cartoon Network most of the time something I'm not interested in is shown. Although, I do watch it when they are showing shows like Family Guy and King of the Hill, but I don't consider those Cartoon Network shows. And I have seen the flap jack show but it wasn't for me.

I do wish I had Boomerang, but its not a channel I have. I already stated that I understand that I am not the target audience and I can't blame them for what they are doing from a business standpoint. It simply wouldn't be smart.

I'm merely reminiscing about the past. My time has passed and its time for the next generation. In no way shape or form did I say the quality of cartoons has gone down just that the one's shown now simply don't appeal to me. Don't mistake not interested as an insult, because people simply have different tastes. Nothing personal.

And I am not a snob. I'm merely expressing things from my point of view providing insight from the perspective of a small portion of the demographics that CN is trying to get to watch their station. A good marketer will look at all view points regardless of whether they view them as "snobs" and after looking at whether a change could be profitable they will make a decision.

[Dr.Pepper]

I'm merely reminiscing about the past. My time has passed and its time for the next generation. In no way shape or form did I say the quality of cartoons has gone down just that the one's shown now simply don't appeal to me. Don't mistake not interested as an insult, because people simply have different tastes. Nothing personal.
Good, because there are way too many people in this world who are convinced that old=good and new=bad when it comes to cartoons.

[Blackstar]

I have tried the other shows, but they weren't interesting for me to watch the entire show. I watch TV at random times like most people and whenever I tune into Cartoon Network most of the time something I'm not interested in is shown. Although, I do watch it when they are showing shows like Family Guy and King of the Hill, but I don't consider those Cartoon Network shows. And I have seen the flap jack show but it wasn't for me.

I do wish I had Boomerang, but its not a channel I have. I already stated that I understand that I am not the target audience and I can't blame them for what they are doing from a business standpoint. It simply wouldn't be smart.

I'm merely reminiscing about the past. My time has passed and its time for the next generation. In no way shape or form did I say the quality of cartoons has gone down just that the one's shown now simply don't appeal to me. Don't mistake not interested as an insult, because people simply have different tastes. Nothing personal.

And I am not a snob. I'm merely expressing things from my point of view providing insight from the perspective of a small portion of the demographics that CN is trying to get to watch their station. A good marketer will look at all view points regardless of whether they view them as "snobs" and after looking at whether a change could be profitable they will make a decision.

Fair enough. And for the record, I wasn't calling you a snob just for having an opinion. A "retro snob" is a term that I use to describe old school nostalgia fans who automatically turn up their noses at anything that's new or current. If that's not how you roll, then there's no reason for you to take offense.

[dth1971]

Cartoon Network (CN) is in last place? I thought cable channel GSN (which shows a mix of old game shows like "Match Game" and "Family Feud" and new game shows like "20Q" and "Catch 21") was in last place or near last place in cable ratings!

[Blackstar]

Cartoon Network (CN) is in last place? I thought cable channel GSN (which shows a mix of old game shows like "Match Game" and "Family Feud" and new game shows like "20Q" and "Catch 21") was in last place or near last place in cable ratings!

We're talking about childrens' entertainment channels, and Cartoon Network is in 3rd place behind Nickelodeon and the Disney Channel. GSN isn't a kids' entertainment channel, so it doesn't count and is therefore irrelevant to this discussion.