Cartoon Network's Treatment of Anime Discussion Thread

[macattack]

All right, the amount of topics being knocked off-topic has gotten on everyone's nerves. I asked Jave for permission to create the thread and he has granted his blessings so here it is. This is the thread for all discussion for Cartoon Network's treatment of anime. No more knocking threads off topic, capice?

Conditions to READ FIRST:

1. There is a three strikes rule. If the discussion gets out of hand and degenerates into a general fight that requires mod intervention three times I will ask a CN Forums mod to lock the thread or the mods can do it themselves. Keep in mind, though, that any of the mods can lock the thread or hand out infractions at their own discretion at any given time. So don't assume the three strikes rule is the be all, end all.

2. All discussion about CN's treatment of anime will take place in the thread ONLY, and must not spread to other threads in the CN forum. If somebody takes the discussion to other threads in the CN forum the person will receive a mod warning. For discussions of the anime on CN that is airing please refer to the shows' talkbacks.

3. How AS treats anime is a matter for the AS forum. No discussion of AS anime should be in the thread unless it is a "CN should have aired Moribito, not AS" type of instance. The same goes for any other anime airing on TV, that is a subject for the Anime Forum.

4. Toonami can be mentioned but shouldn't be the dominating focus of the thread, as, after all, Toonami wasn't an anime-exclusive block.

5. No personal insults, threats, etc., etc. This also includes CN executives and staff. For example, you can say Stuart Snyder is committing a blunder but you can't call him an idiot on the thread. Be prepared to back up your statements about someone being right or wrong.

6. NO OBVIOUS CONSPIRACY THEORIES. If there's correlations or evidence to back up your statements, use them. For example, Naruto's final posted ratings was around 1.5 million total viewers.

7. You can mention anime CN could pick up that could become successful but don't make it a list post and you must provide good reasons why CN should consider the anime for pickup.

As long as you can stick to these guidelines the discussion should remain civil.

Now go ahead and discuss. But don't let yourself get out of hand, and remember, the discussions and disagreements happen HERE and HERE ONLY from now on.

Thank you.

[SuperMegaHyper]

...To be honest I just don't know, CN just isn't going to say offcially they don't like anime (If they don't) knowing well there is a fanbase and veiwership.

[macattack]

...To be honest I just don't know, CN just isn't going to say offcially they don't like anime (If they don't) knowing well there is a fanbase and veiwership.

This isn't a thread about whether CN will say, whether officially or unofficially, they dislike anime, this is a thread for our opinions on the subject.

That being said, I don't think CN will say anything one way or another. I think the lack of mention of anime at the two most recent Upfronts is rather telling, though.

As is the message on Naruto's show page saying it is "Now Playing on CN Video". In other words it has unofficially become an online-exclusive.

[creativerealms]

Honestly while I don't like it the answer seems simple to me. Cartoon Network is becoming more mainstream, less of "Specialized" channel so to speak and something like anime just does not fit that image. There is no Xenophobia going on, no conspiracy or anything. The answer seems clear cut to me and probably is. Cartoon network is changing be it for better or for whose I don't know and I can't speculate. And well sadly some things are effected with these changes.

Besides it's not only Cartoon Network removing or deminishing anime every channel airing anime or that has aired anime has removed it too. The Stars/Encore channels for instance use to air anime series on a regular bassis, shows they own the rights to and no longer do. Now they may air a random movie from time to time and thats it.

It's not just cartoon network it's American TV at a whole, it sucks but I can deal with it. After all change can happen again and when it does it could easily bring a lot of anime on TV. You never know what tomorrow brings.

[SuperMegaHyper]

This isn't a thread about whether CN will say, whether officially or unofficially, they dislike anime, this is a thread for our opinions on the subject.

That being said, I don't think CN will say anything one way or another. I think the lack of mention of anime at the two most recent Upfronts is rather telling, though.

As is the message on Naruto's show page saying it is "Now Playing on CN Video". In other words it has unofficially become an online-exclusive.I know, but CN is the subject here and I don't think they're treating anime fair reacently and there are alot of speculation of why and that is just my theroy of why CN hasn't confirmed anything like the cancelation/hiatus of Naruto.

[chdr]

My opinion is that these shows are being taken out because they were from the old regime, not because they were anime.

As for why they aren't picking up anymore anime...

I think a main reason why CN is dropping anime is because they got burnt too many times.

Blue Dragon failed, even though they gave the show really good treatment when it first came out. Bakugan (the show) failed, and the only reason why they keep the show around is because they get a major cut of the profits (and just recently, ALL of the American profits). IGPX failed, because not enough people watched it to justify the cost. MAR and POT failed, both on home video and on TV (although Toonami's shoddy treatment of the TV airings didn't help). One Piece failed (for CN), because it didn't meet CN's expectations. Yugioh GX failed, garnering less ratings than the first series. Bobobo didn't really fail, but you could tell by the fact that CN ignored in the last couple months that CN didn't really care about Bobobo at that point. (And even then, what could CN do? The dubbing company went bankrupt.)

In fact, I don't think there has been a single anime since Naruto (not counting Pokemon, who started earlier) that hasn't quietly crashed and burned. CN said themselves that they don't expect to find another Naruto or Pokemon-sized hit anytime soon.

What happened here was that CN relied too much on anime. They acquired every anime under the sun, regardless of whether or not there was a large market for it. They got burned by almost all of them, and now they are unwilling to take a risk and show non-established anime series, because they think that they will be throwing their money away, just like all the other times.

Say, this sounds like the mess the anime industry is in right now...

[Shawn Hopkins]

I think they love money. And because they love money they love ad revenue. And because they love ad revenue they hate bad ratings. And because of that when anime gets bad ratings they hate anime.

Seriously, the idea that CN keeps anime off the air there for some weird xenophobic reason is just bizarre and irrational. They wouldn't shoot themselves in the foot like that. They wouldn't turn down a profitable revenue stream just because it didn't fit their personal tastes. We're dealing with a multi-national corporation here, not some guy who runs a small storefront business. They're driven by market research and focus groups and trends and the allmighty dollar, not the whims of people who just don't like anime.

Heck, I bet a lot of the executives who work there don't even like cartoons or kids programming, that doesn't mean they want to replace it with things they do like such as reruns of CSI or something.

[Racattack!Force]

Personally, I think that they are just worried about getting burned again by anime doing bad (Blue Dragon did horribly, despite good treatment) or they just want to move on from it to make room for live-action projects.

[Blackstar]

My belief is that Cartoon Network is on it's way to becoming a general kids' entertainment channel, specializing in more mainstream programming, and anime is more of a niche market. Also, there currently aren't any major anime hits to capitalize on right now.

And yes, CN pulled both One Piece and then later Naruto off of the schedule for some unrevealed reason, but it could be because both of those shows came from the earlier regime that the current folks in charge are trying to distance themselves from.

[J!!!]

They used some toonami music in a preview of DB Evolution made just for CN so they don't hate anime as much as you think;)

[Yusuke Urameshi]

I think that CN today only wants anime that they know will sell, pokemon, bakugan, CN Executives know that these will sell toys and dvds and games etc.

And besides, I dont see much of a future for bakugan at this point..

[Silverstar]

They used some toonami music in a preview of DB Evolution made just for CN so they don't hate anime as much as you think;)

I don't think anyone here ever said that CN hates anime, but that's not proof of anything. CN owns that music, so they can use it however they feel. Plus, Toonami was an action block, not an anime block. It was never exclusively for anime, nor did it ever claim to be.

I tend to think that CN is mainly interested in what they know is going to sell and sell big, and there aren't any anime which fit that bill right now. After the huge influx of mediocre or indistinguishable anime which flowed all over basic cable during the Pokemon/DBZ/Yu-Gi-Oh! boom, the market became saturated and a lot of people got burned, so many channels are wary of making that mistake again. CN is no exception.

[TripleS]

Honestly while I don't like it the answer seems simple to me. Cartoon Network is becoming more mainstream, less of "Specialized" channel so to speak and something like anime just does not fit that image. There is no Xenophobia going on, no conspiracy or anything. The answer seems clear cut to me and probably is. Cartoon network is changing be it for better or for whose I don't know and I can't speculate. And well sadly some things are effected with these changes.

Besides it's not only Cartoon Network removing or deminishing anime every channel airing anime or that has aired anime has removed it too. The Stars/Encore channels for instance use to air anime series on a regular bassis, shows they own the rights to and no longer do. Now they may air a random movie from time to time and thats it.

It's not just cartoon network it's American TV at a whole, it sucks but I can deal with it. After all change can happen again and when it does it could easily bring a lot of anime on TV. You never know what tomorrow brings.
QFT. I completely agree, I think if CN really hated anime, they wouldn't be airing Bakugon and Pokemon still. CN is just trying to change their demographic entirely, whether or not they succeed in appealing to a larger group of people is another story.

[J!!!]

I don't think anyone here ever said that CN hates anime, but that's not proof of anything. CN own that music, so they can use it however they feel. Plus, Toonami was an action block, not an anime block. It was never exclusively for anime, nor did it ever claim to be.
Well not in this thread but I heard members say it. And I never thought Toonami was an Anime block because it wasn't it had stuff like Teen Titans and Justice Leauge two American made series.

[Silverstar]

Well not in this thread but I heard members say it. And I never thought Toonami was an Anime block because it wasn't it had stuff like Teen Titans and Justice Leauge two American made series.

Not to mention Megas XLR, ReBoot, The Real Adventures of Johnny Quest, He-Man (2002), Batman: TAS, Superman: TAS, The Batman, Samurai Jack and Fantastic Four: World's Greatest Heroes. ;)

[Blackstar]

These things typically go in and out of style. Anime just isn't a hot property right now. As much as it's hardcore fanbase wants to believe otherwise, anime is still mostly a niche market, rather than a mainstream one. When another successful series from Japan gets imported to the States and becomes huge, then CN and other channels/networks will take an interest in Japanese animation again, but right now, anime just doesn't fit in with CN's current plans.

[mkalv]

Not to mention Megas XLR, ReBoot, The Real Adventures of Johnny Quest, He-Man (2002), Batman: TAS, Superman: TAS, The Batman, Samurai Jack and Fantastic Four: World's Greatest Heroes. ;)

Don't forget Storm Hawks and Wulin Warriors.;)

[Antiyonder]

Honestly while I don't like it the answer seems simple to me. Cartoon Network is becoming more mainstream, less of "Specialized" channel so to speak and something like anime just does not fit that image.

I've often mentioned a way for Cartoon Network to increase viewership for animation altogether in those CN Live Action threads and think it would help anime.

The reason why very few people dismiss animation and anime really isn't so much personal preference, but buckling to peer pressure. The public perception is that animation in all forms are for children, virgins and the mentally handicapped.

The solution would be to have a show in which famous celebrities comment on their favorite cartoons/anime. See, if the general public could be showed that people from all walks of life enjoy the medium, then they would be more the willing to watch cartoons and anime without the stigma attached to the mediums.

I'd like to know if my idea has merit or if it is wrong and why.

[J!!!]

Don't forget Storm Hawks and Wulin Warriors.;)
Except that those shows failed...............
And to Silverstar : Fantastic four WGH was made in France :P

[soundmonkey44]

I agree with antiyonder, Anime is basically doesn't fit in with what the notallthat bright masses veiw cartoons to be, wich is sad, but then again many things about modern human mentality is wrong in general, but thats another story. Like ive said before, yes CN is giving anime the shaft, yes most likely Bleach will be the only anime still showing new eps by this time next year, possibly the only anime still on CN/AS (well besides pokemon.) But still all things have there cycles, animes cycle on CN is over now. But in time im sure it will return, & if not...thank the lord for DVDS!:sweat:

[Marvin Tikvah]

Say, I'm curious to know, just how did Funimation's One Piece and Post-Toonami Naruto fare in ratings? I've heard too many conflicting reports about both as their reason for being removed from the channel but I want to see it for myself.

[Jave]

If I'm not mistaken, the highest-rated episode of Naruto was a filler episode.

And seriously, when an episode is titled "The Death of Naruto", you advertise the crap out of it.

[macattack]

If I'm not mistaken, the highest-rated episode of Naruto was a filler episode.

And seriously, when an episode is titled "The Death of Naruto", you advertise the crap out of it.

"The Death Of Naruto" made the top ten in ratings, I believe. So did the two Naruto episodes on Toonami's final broadcast.

[Mugen]

Since I remember some people asking how Blue Dragon did on DAS, let's look at the ratings with K6-11:

Episode 1: 1.5
Episode 2: 2.1
Episode 3: 1.6
Episode 4: 2.0
Episode 5: 2.6
Episode 6: 2.5
Episode 7: 2.3
Episode 8: 1.8
Episode 9: 1.9
Episode 10: 1.8
Episode 11: 1.6
Episode 12: 1.6


The show started off well, then went into a slow decline. Then it was replaced with a rerun of Pokemon Diamond & Pearl, which didn't dip below a 2.0.

[Sketch]

If I'm not mistaken, the highest-rated episode of Naruto was a filler episode.

And seriously, when an episode is titled "The Death of Naruto", you advertise the crap out of it.

However, they didn't advertise that episode of Naruto or the others that made the top cable charts.

Now this talk of Naruto being taken off for bad ratings... it's just rediculous. I'm much more willing to believe it was a case of "out with the old in with the new" like Teen Titans got canned when it was still quite a ratings grabber (albiet it had a good run so I don't have any qualms with that).

If CN is going to go and make special promos for Dragonball Evolution then I ask you... why isn't Dragonball Z airing right now? They supposedly gave up the rights... and right before the movie launched... curious. Likewise they toss out all the Viz anime and Jetstream right before Warner starts distributng Viz Media titles. It all seems very... backwards. And the only reasonable explanations for that are CN doesn't want to play those anime anymore. Why? Who knows and who cares? The fact of the matter is they're gone and there's very little chance of them returning to the network.

They'd rather make live action reality shows than keep stable anime licenses like Naruto.

[soundmonkey44]

They'd rather make live action reality shows than keep stable anime licenses like Naruto.

Those TV excecutives sure our silly! Arn't they!:p

mabye they don't get enough fresh air!:sweat:

[Raidon Makoto]

Since I remember some people asking how Blue Dragon did on DAS, let's look at the ratings with K6-11:

Episode 1: 1.5
Episode 2: 2.1
Episode 3: 1.6
Episode 4: 2.0
Episode 5: 2.6
Episode 6: 2.5
Episode 7: 2.3
Episode 8: 1.8
Episode 9: 1.9
Episode 10: 1.8
Episode 11: 1.6
Episode 12: 1.6


The show started off well, then went into a slow decline. Then it was replaced with a rerun of Pokemon Diamond & Pearl, which didn't dip below a 2.0.
Some of those ratings are better than average ratings of some of the shows on YAH...

While I don't necessarily think they hate Japanese people/animation, I believe that the executives think anime is a symbol of the old regime and are tossing it out for 'rebranding' (which is incredibly stupid). Its still xenophobia, because they are still discriminating against Japanese animation. Simple as that.

[Racattack!Force]

Some of those ratings are better than average ratings of some of the shows on YAH...More or less, you are kinda right. Then again, a few of the shows on the block are currently reruns.

[The Wolverine]

Its still xenophobia, because they are still discriminating against Japanese animation. Simple as that.
No, it's not.

Simple as that.

[Racattack!Force]

Over whether the current Cartoon Network regime has something against anime (other than the ones they have a stake in), I have to say that they don't want it on the channel right now. Because of these reasons:

Anime was a centerpiece of the previous regime, and many of the later decisions of said regime were...hurtful to the channel. So they want to get rid of a majority of that stuff (the exceptions being the Ben 10 and other animated series commissioned by it).
They need room to put in some of those new live-action stuff. With Blue Dragon's failure, Cartoon Network decided getting rid of anime is the way to go.

[Raidon Makoto]

No, it's not.

Simple as that.
Wow, that was spam.

And, yes, yes it is.

fear and hatred of strangers or foreigners or of anything [something] that is strange or foreign
Important parts in bold. Since anime seemingly is hated by the CN Execs for being a symbol of previous regimes (and its showing with its continued ostracization), it is still xenophobia.

[CottonSwab]

Why would CN pump money into a medium thats expensive and carries a risk of failure? Remember, anime is too easily available over the internet and most of the anime CN would run is stuff that the hardcore anime fans have seen subbed already, so maybe CN is worried that the return on the investment will not equal the money they would spend on it. The only saving grace to CN airing anime the way that they used to would be the hope of attracting new anime fans, but that is not a given and the risk would be too high to gamble. Especially since CN is gambling too much already with the addition of live action stuff.....

[The Wolverine]

Important parts in bold. Since anime seemingly is hated by the CN Execs for being a symbol of previous regimes (and its showing with its continued ostracization), it is still xenophobia.
No, not really.

And once again, show me solid proof that the CN execs hate anime.

All I've seen are assumptions.

[CottonSwab]

No, not really.

And once again, show me solid proof that the CN execs hate anime.

All I've seen are assumptions.

I hope this thread does not turn into a fight, and I hope the moderators don't lock it because this is an issue that needs to be discussed and addressed. When it comes down to it I would have to side with Syaorin Li on this, I don't feel that CN hates anime, I just feel that it's a classic tale of "We want to air it, but what if the money does not flow in...?", and in the end it all comes down to business. I don't think there is a plot to blacklist and forget everything that happened during the old anime-era of CN, but I don't think they are ready to take a gamble on anime when there is no real guerentee of revenue from it.

[Sketch]

There's no particularly good reason to believe CN folks hate or even dislike anime right now so throwing around the word xenophobia is reckless. There's evidence enough that they don't want to play anime right now but that doesn't mean they hate it.

[The Wolverine]

There's no particularly good reason to believe CN folks hate or even dislike anime right now so throwing around the word xenophobia is reckless. There's evidence enough that they don't want to play anime right now but that doesn't mean they hate it.
Exactly.

[nakak]

If you want to discuss on why you think CN is airing less anime, you are free to do so, but please, do not flame or throw insults.

Otherwise the topic will be closed and infractions will be sent out.

Thank you.

[CottonSwab]

There's no particularly good reason to believe CN folks hate or even dislike anime right now so throwing around the word xenophobia is reckless. There's evidence enough that they don't want to play anime right now but that doesn't mean they hate it.

I heard that during tours of the CN offices, visitors can see pictures of different anime series printed and pinned up on the wall with darts, knives and pins sticking out of them!!!! LoL, that of course was a joke.

[Antiyonder]

I just feel that it's a classic tale of "We want to air it, but what if the money does not flow in...?",

Now, I'm not part of the CN Hates Anime Wagon, but that's actually a faulty reason. To take another medium as an example, back when Spider-Man was conceived, the idea that a teen could function as an actual solo hero rather than as a sidekick or a team member was considered absurd and a risky approach. And well, we can see that Marvel's fear of failure was unfounded.

[Raidon Makoto]

Why would CN pump money into a medium thats expensive and carries a risk of failure? Remember, anime is too easily available over the internet and most of the anime CN would run is stuff that the hardcore anime fans have seen subbed already, so maybe CN is worried that the return on the investment will not equal the money they would spend on it. The only saving grace to CN airing anime the way that they used to would be the hope of attracting new anime fans, but that is not a given and the risk would be too high to gamble. Especially since CN is gambling too much already with the addition of live action stuff.....
There was one point during the early Snyder-regime that the American anime distributors were practically giving anime away. And, in fact, Bandai pays Cartoon Network to keep Code Geass on the air. Anime is incredibly cheap to license.
No, not really.

And once again, show me solid proof that the CN execs hate anime.

All I've seen are assumptions.
Well, there's all the anti-anime stuff that's happened (death of Toonami, death of Naruto despite good ratings, death of One Piece despite rising ratings, death of Blue Dragon despite moderate ratings). There's also that banner that appeared on [as].com with the characters from Bleach on it that said "You're lucky we care this much" (which pretty much was interpreted as CN wanting Bleach dead). I've also heard murmurs (someone I know knows a guy who works at CN) that the attitude towards anime within CN HQ is pretty negative. I'm sure there's more too, but I'm trying to get to bed atm, so I'll work on that tomorrow.

[soundmonkey44]

1, CN does NOT hate anime

2. The execes just don't realize that anime is still a decently viable medium!

3. CN might want to use somthing else as a Crutch besides anime for a while

4. Hey at Least AS still cares, somewaht, even if they do constantly bash us anime fans!

5. If we just be patient Anime Will return to CN, Until then we should enjoy what could possibly be the return of a decent amount of US animation.

6. We should also ask CN what the hecks wrong with them! I mean their gowing to show LIVE ACTION on a Network with the word CARTOON! in it, doesn't that make them OXYMORONIC!?:sweat:

[Silverstar]

to Silverstar : Fantastic four WGH was made in France :P

I know, and France is not Japan, therefore FF:WGH was another non-anime which aired on Toonami. The US and Japan aren't the only cartoon producing nations on Earth, after all.

[The Wolverine]

Well, there's all the anti-anime stuff that's happened (death of Toonami,
Low ratings. Not to mention Toonami sucked in its final years anyway.

death of Naruto despite good ratings, death of One Piece despite rising ratings,
You wouldn't like what I have to say about Naruto and One Piece, so I won't.

death of Blue Dragon despite moderate ratings).
Yet new episodes continued to stream online and new episodes are currently viewable on CN's on demand channel.

There's also that banner that appeared on [as].com with the characters from Bleach on it that said "You're lucky we care this much" (which pretty much was interpreted as CN wanting Bleach dead).
That would be Williams Street's doing, not CN. Also, they do it on purpose because they know the anime fans will react to it.

I've also heard murmurs (someone I know knows a guy who works at CN) that the attitude towards anime within CN HQ is pretty negative.
So this is one of those "I know someone that knows someone" deals. Therefore it's hearsay and nothing more.

[CottonSwab]

Now, I'm not part of the CN Hates Anime Wagon, but that's actually a faulty reason. To take another medium as an example, back when Spider-Man was conceived, the idea that a teen could function as an actual solo hero rather than as a sidekick or a team member was considered absurd and a risky approach. And well, we can see that Marvel's fear of failure was unfounded.

Just because one example happens to be the exeption that does not mean that CN does not feel this way, they may or they may not feel that there will be no financial return from airing anime, or they may have other reasons. Either way, CN has a reason and I just don't see them "hating" anime just because it's a part of a different marketing team or managment's agenda from years past.

[Jave]

You wouldn't like what I have to say about Naruto and One Piece, so I won't.No offense, man, but you can't expect people to take your arguments seriously if you're going to reply with a cop out. Besides this isn't a thread to discuss the quality of the shows, but to discuss the possibilities as to why CN is treating anime in a given way.

Naruto got good ratings and CN removed it. FACT. What have you got to say about that that others won't like?

And keep your opinions on the show out of the thread.

[The Huntsman]

Naruto got good ratings and CN removed it. FACT.I just think people are tired of all of these unsubstantiated claims. Yes, it’s a fact that Cartoon Network acted against its best interests when they cancelled “Naruto”, but that doesn’t mean that they did such because they are xenophobic towards Japan or that they hate anime. It’s been announced that Cartoon Network could very well cancel “Chowder” despite the fact that it’s getting good ratings, and it’s not from Japan. Cartoon Network is having a mid-life crisis; they suddenly don’t like how they have turned out so they are trying different things in order to be “cool” again. It’s sad that “Naruto” was labeled a scapegoat and tossed off of the ship, but people should have enough restraint not to make grand statements that haven’t been proven.

[Jave]

I just think people are tired of all of these unsubstantiated claims. Yes, it’s a fact that Cartoon Network acted against its best interests when they cancelled “Naruto”, but that doesn’t mean that they did such because they are xenophobic towards Japan or that they hate anime. It’s been announced that Cartoon Network could very well cancel “Chowder” despite the fact that it’s getting good ratings, and it’s not from Japan. Cartoon Network is having a mid-life crisis; they suddenly don’t like how they have turned out so they are trying different things in order to be “cool” again. It’s sad that “Naruto” was labeled a scapegoat and tossed off of the ship, but people should have enough restraint not to make grand statements that haven’t been proven.I never said anything about xenophobia. What I said is simply true. I'm not entirely sure of the reason, but right now, I believe someone in the network had something against Naruto, because if they really did it to start a new phase, they would have at least allowed Naruto to finish its run (which was only 11 episodes away).

[Terror of Death]

I think it might have more to do with CN not liking certain anime/shows rather than them not liking anime in general. Assuming CN gets a cut of the profits from the Naruto merch I find it weird that they didn’t decide to air it along side Bakugan and Pokemon on DAS when Toonami ended. Them axing Blue Dragon and One Piece is somewhat understandable but I’m puzzled about Naruto.

Maybe someone at CN just prefers mon anime like Bakugan and Pokemon to shonen anime like Naruto and One Piece. :p

[The Huntsman]

I never said anything about xenophobia.I was referring to what was being discussed. Rust keeps accusing the network of being xenophobic, which has made several users, such as Syaoran Li and myself, rather frustrated. It’s obvious “Naruto” was cancelled for improper reasons. It should have been allowed to finish its run. But that doesn’t mean that the network is xenophobic towards Japan or that they hate anime.

[Rolling Cloud]

Maybe someone at CN just prefers mon anime like Bakugan and Pokemon to shonen anime like Naruto and One Piece. :p

Uh (being serious here for a sec), those are all technically considered shonen. :sweat:

[Terror of Death]

Uh (being serious here for a sec), those are all technically considered shonen. :sweat:

Oh, did I say shonen? I forgot to add the word "Jump". ;)

[Light Lucario]

I was referring to what was being discussed. Rust keeps accusing the network of being xenophobic, which has made several users, such as Syaoran Li and myself, rather frustrated. It’s obvious “Naruto” was cancelled for improper reasons. It should have been allowed to finish its run. But that doesn’t mean that the network is xenophobic towards Japan or that they hate anime.

I agree. While I've never been a fan of Naruto, I do find it odd how they did canceled it. However, I don't think that means that they hate all anime either since that's only one show. My guess is that CN is trying to make a new image for themselves and they didn't think that Naruto fit their new image.

I don't think that CN hates anime either. If that was the case, then they wouldn't be airing Pokemon daily, with some of the movies every now and then, or Bakugan. I think it's a combination of CN going through changes with their programing, trying to figure out what works for their image and what makes them enough money. It may also be an effect from airing other anime series that didn't perform as well as they wanted to that causes them to air less anime. It does make sense, in a business manner, not to want to make too big of a risk. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't and after some of the anime series that didn't perform well enough, not to mention the current economic situation, it sounds logical not to want to take a huge business risk with something like this.

I'm sure that once another huge anime series hits the U.S., anime will air on more channels, possibly including CN as well.

[Raidon Makoto]

Low ratings. Not to mention Toonami sucked in its final years anyway.

You wouldn't like what I have to say about Naruto and One Piece, so I won't.
No offense, man, but you can't expect people to take your arguments seriously if you're going to reply with a cop out. Besides this isn't a thread to discuss the quality of the shows, but to discuss the possibilities as to why CN is treating anime in a given way.

Naruto got good ratings and CN removed it. FACT. What have you got to say about that that others won't like?

Yet new episodes continued to stream online and new episodes are currently viewable on CN's on demand channel.
The Jetstream streamings were more Viz's doing than CN's, and CN eventually pulled the plug. There are no more new episodes on OnDemand either, up to 29 expires this week.

That would be Williams Street's doing, not CN. Also, they do it on purpose because they know the anime fans will react to it.
No, Williams Street cares. They tease us, but they care. The "You're lucky we care this much" was interpreted a saying "Snyder is trying to cancel Bleach but we're not letting him."

So this is one of those "I know someone that knows someone" deals. Therefore it's hearsay and nothing more.
I realize that. I'm just putting it out there, though.

[The Huntsman]

I believe FusionFall should be brought up in this debate. If Cartoon Network hated anime, why would they have spent so much money creating a game that redesigned their “perfectly normal” characters into an anime form? Also, they have a manga (http://fusionfall.com/media/manga.php) on the website and it’s even advertised as a manga. If they were truly against all things Japanese, wouldn’t they have just called it a comic or a graphic novel? However, they called it a manga. A word with heavy Japanese connotations. Would that make sense if they were xenophobic towards Japan?
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n147/The_Huntsman/Cartoons/Dex.pnghttp://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n147/The_Huntsman/Cartoons/PPG2.pnghttp://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n147/The_Huntsman/Cartoons/Mandark.png

[warnerbroman]

I believe FusionFall should be brought up in this debate. If Cartoon Network hated anime, why would they have spent so much money creating a game that redesigned their “perfectly normal” characters into an anime form? Also, they have a manga (http://fusionfall.com/media/manga.php) on the website and it’s even advertised as a manga. If they were truly against all things Japanese, wouldn’t they have just called it a comic or a graphic novel? However, they called it a manga. A word with heavy Japanese connotations. Would that make sense if they were xenophobic towards Japan?
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n147/The_Huntsman/Cartoons/Dex.pnghttp://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n147/The_Huntsman/Cartoons/PPG2.pnghttp://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n147/The_Huntsman/Cartoons/Mandark.pnggive it a show and we'll talk

[Daxdiv]

But it doesn't read like manga... I hate to be a ******* about it, but... Manga reads from right to left, not left to right. That screwed me up the first time I tried to read it.

Also I would like to continue that comic series since I think it could serve as a game guide, especially when the expansion packs come out.

[HG Revolution]

I believe FusionFall should be brought up in this debate. If Cartoon Network hated anime, why would they have spent so much money creating a game that redesigned their “perfectly normal” characters into an anime form? Also, they have a manga (http://fusionfall.com/media/manga.php) on the website and it’s even advertised as a manga. If they were truly against all things Japanese, wouldn’t they have just called it a comic or a graphic novel? However, they called it a manga. A word with heavy Japanese connotations. Would that make sense if they were xenophobic towards Japan?
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n147/The_Huntsman/Cartoons/Dex.pnghttp://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n147/The_Huntsman/Cartoons/PPG2.pnghttp://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n147/The_Huntsman/Cartoons/Mandark.png

Too be fair, FusionFall could be seen as the swan song of "old CN", given it has lots of characters from shows that either air on Boomerang now or just don't air anymore.

[Raidon Makoto]

I believe FusionFall should be brought up in this debate. If Cartoon Network hated anime, why would they have spent so much money creating a game that redesigned their “perfectly normal” characters into an anime form? Also, they have a manga (http://fusionfall.com/media/manga.php) on the website and it’s even advertised as a manga. If they were truly against all things Japanese, wouldn’t they have just called it a comic or a graphic novel? However, they called it a manga. A word with heavy Japanese connotations. Would that make sense if they were xenophobic towards Japan?
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n147/The_Huntsman/Cartoons/Dex.pnghttp://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n147/The_Huntsman/Cartoons/PPG2.pnghttp://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n147/The_Huntsman/Cartoons/Mandark.png
The leading rumor is that the character designs were based off the designs of Bleedman (I really hope that's not true because I disagree with his sexualization of CN characters and all around pedophilia). This game has also been in development for a while, it could have been started by the previous regime.

[soundmonkey44]

Thats an interesting manga, I wonder if it'll actually be published or if it'll remain online only, I personally think Fusion fall is a great swan song for the old CN it combines our love for cartoon cartoons & Anime. I hope it does well enough to last another year or 2.:D

[macattack]

The leading rumor is that the character designs were based off the designs of Bleedman (I really hope that's not true because I disagree with his sexualization of CN characters and all around pedophilia). This game has also been in development for a while, it could have been started by the previous regime.

Personally, I don't think Bleedman is that bad, but I've only read the first two chapters of his doujinshi so I have no idea what direction the story took. I don't believe in sexualization either but I haven't seen any of that in his work yet.

In any case I think the designs are CN's way of giving a nod at Bleedman and how he kept many CN characters in the forefront when they otherwise would have been forgotten. However, I also do think that Fusionfall has been in development for a long while (how long ago was it first announced again?).

At the same time, I am definitely interpreting this as the old CN's swan song, considering nearly every character featured here are part of shows cancelled or about to be cancelled. You could also interpret it as the swan song of anime as well, considering CN is virtually anime-free other than Pokemon and Bakugan. Considering CN is putting in a subtle diss at the DBZ anime right in its ads for Dragonball Evolution . . .

[Racattack!Force]

I'm just wondering: Does Cartoon Network currently have the rights to any DB/DBZ/DBGT episodes?

[Raidon Makoto]

At the same time, I am definitely interpreting this as the old CN's swan song, considering nearly every character featured here are part of shows cancelled or about to be cancelled. You could also interpret it as the swan song of anime as well, considering CN is virtually anime-free other than Pokemon and Bakugan. Considering CN is putting in a subtle diss at the DBZ anime right in its ads for Dragonball Evolution . . .
Then, if it is a Swan Song... Where's TOM?
I'm just wondering: Does Cartoon Network currently have the rights to any DB/DBZ/DBGT episodes?
Rumor is they forfeited the rights to all anime except Naruto, Pokemon, and Bakugan.

[macattack]

Rumor is they forfeited the rights to all anime except Naruto, Pokemon, and Bakugan.

Actually it's pretty much confirmed. Sketch snooped around the CN website and he saw that the copyrights to all but the three above are 100% gone.

As for why TOM is missing, my hope is that TOM will be released in an expansion for Fusionfall, but I'm not holding my breath.

[warnerbroman]

Actually it's pretty much confirmed. Sketch snooped around the CN website and he saw that the copyrights to all but the three above are 100% gone.
. where do you see that?

at least there is hope for naruto

[chdr]

where do you see that?

at least there is hope for narutoAlmost all the anime has been removed from the "Shows" section.

[Mickialla]

Well, I won't say that Cartoon Network has something against anime, because then Bakugan and Pokemon wouldn't be airing. The only explanation I have is that anime is part of the old regime and they're pushing themselves away from that. I do think that sometime in the future anime will return to Cartoon Network, I find it hard to believe that anime will never again have a place on Cartoon Network.

[warnerbroman]

well they can get DBZK and say it for a new gen

[macattack]

Well, I won't say that Cartoon Network has something against anime, because then Bakugan and Pokemon wouldn't be airing. The only explanation I have is that anime is part of the old regime and they're pushing themselves away from that. I do think that sometime in the future anime will return to Cartoon Network, I find it hard to believe that anime will never again have a place on Cartoon Network.

Well, apparently the spring 2009 anime lineup is really, really strong (MUCH stronger than last year's, where the only remotely "mainstream" material was Slayers Revolution) so maybe CN will scoop a couple of those series up. At the very least Adult Swim has to be interested in FMA: Brotherhood.

Another one that's supposed to be good is Shangri-La, which is supposed to be GONZO's last stand. They're pulling out all the stops with that one so maybe AS or CN will be interested in it too. SL would be an interesting choice for CN in particular because of its environmentalist message. Then again, Moribito could have had much the same effect with reading thanks to the Moribito novels being released and Moribito was buried in Adult Swim's coffers.

[Mickialla]

Well, apparently the spring 2009 anime lineup is really, really strong (MUCH stronger than last year's, where the only remotely "mainstream" material was Slayers Revolution) so maybe CN will scoop a couple of those series up. At the very least Adult Swim has to be interested in FMA: Brotherhood. Another one that's supposed to be good Shangri-La is supposed to be GONZO's last stand, they're pulling out all the stops with that one so maybe AS or CN will be interested in it too. SL would be an interesting choice for CN in particular because of its environmentalist message.

While I do believe that anime will return to Cartoon Network sometime in the future, the near future looks bleak. It'd be awesome if Cartoon Network would pick up some popular anime from Japan in the next few months, it might actually take some of the hate from the live-action away (maybe not). But it doesn't look like it's going to happen. I don't expect any other anime besides kiddy ones like Pokemon and Bakugan until 2010 the soonest.

[macattack]

While I do believe that anime will return to Cartoon Network sometime in the future, the near future looks bleak. It'd be awesome if Cartoon Network would pick up some popular anime from Japan in the next few months, it might actually take some of the hate from the live-action away (maybe not). But it doesn't look like it's going to happen. I don't expect any other anime besides kiddy ones like Pokemon and Bakugan until 2010 the soonest.

Well, it's likely none of the anime being released in Japan will be formally released until 2010 so that gives time for CN and AS to consider the anime. But yeah, I have extremely high doubts. But if they put in at least a marginal anime infusion it would offset the hate from the live-action, especially if/when it bombs.

There's also Battle Spirits which is being run right now, supposedly it's right up CN's valley as a toygetic/card game show. A rumor spread across the ASMB suggests that CN wants the show pretty bad as a Bakugan replacement/supplement and is pretty much trying to strangle Bandai Entertainment in pursuit of the show (Sunrise, Bandai Entertainment's sister company, animates the production).

Another one is Guin Saga, which already has an English-dubbed trailer. It looks really good, especially in terms of production values and storytelling.

[Mickialla]

Well, it's likely none of the anime being released in Japan will be formally released until 2010 so that gives time for CN and AS to consider the anime. But yeah, I have extremely high doubts. But if they put in at least a marginal anime infusion it would offset the hate from the live-action, especially if/when it bombs.

There's also Battle Spirits which is being run right now, supposedly it's right up CN's valley as a toygetic/card game show. A rumor spread across the ASMB suggests that CN wants the show pretty bad as a Bakugan replacement/supplement and is pretty much trying to strangle Bandai Entertainment in pursuit of the show (Sunrise, Bandai Entertainment's sister company, animates the production).

Another one is Guin Saga, which already has an English-dubbed trailer. It looks really good, especially in terms of production values and storytelling.

While Battle Spirits looks better than Bakugan, I'd rather Cartoon Network not pick up another card game/toy anime. But they're going to do what they're going to do, and if they're going to pick up any anime, this will probably be it.

Guin Saga looks good, but it looks too good for something that Cartoon Network would pick up. I think it might do better on Adult Swim.

[macattack]

While Battle Spirits looks better than Bakugan, I'd rather Cartoon Network not pick up another card game/toy anime. But they're going to do what they're going to do, and if they're going to pick up any anime, this will probably be it.

Guin Saga looks good, but it looks too good for something that Cartoon Network would pick up. I think it might do better on Adult Swim.

Battle Spirits is better than Bakugan and Pokemon. Good enough for me. :sweat: Still, this show isn't exactly my speed by any means.

I wasn't aware there were quality standards that are too high for Cartoon Network. Why can't CN pick up something visually gorgeous once in a while? The storyline also screams "SHONEN" to the rooftops except with more sophistication. This is a show that would do better at CN than on AS (then again I said the same thing about Moribito and look where it ended up).

[Mickialla]

I wasn't aware there were quality standards that are too high for Cartoon Network. Why can't CN pick up something visually gorgeous once in a while? The storyline also screams "SHONEN" to the rooftops except with more sophistication. This is a show that would do better at CN than on AS (then again I said the same thing about Moribito and look where it ended up).

I'm not saying Cartoon Network can't pick up Guin Saga. I'm looking at the direction these current execs are taking Cartoon Network in. Guin Saga just doesn't look like the kind of anime they'd pick up. It'd be great if they did, but if any anime comes over this year I'd expect it to be yet another toy/card anime.

[CottonSwab]

Well, it's likely none of the anime being released in Japan will be formally released until 2010 so that gives time for CN and AS to consider the anime. But yeah, I have extremely high doubts. But if they put in at least a marginal anime infusion it would offset the hate from the live-action, especially if/when it bombs.

There's also Battle Spirits which is being run right now, supposedly it's right up CN's valley as a toygetic/card game show. A rumor spread across the ASMB suggests that CN wants the show pretty bad as a Bakugan replacement/supplement and is pretty much trying to strangle Bandai Entertainment in pursuit of the show (Sunrise, Bandai Entertainment's sister company, animates the production).

Another one is Guin Saga, which already has an English-dubbed trailer. It looks really good, especially in terms of production values and storytelling.

Guin Saga and Battle Spirits both look pretty good and I wouldn't mind CN picking up either of these series. I enjoy Bakugan and I can sometimes find myself enjoying Pokemon so the addition of Guin and Battle Spirits bundled along with the anime CN airs on Adult Swim, I don't see a whole lot of hate going on over at CN towards anime when you look at the bigger picture, I just think it comes down to fear of anime not being profitable anymore in 2009 as it was back in 2003-2004. Either way, there is still anime to enjoy on Saturday nights (Bleach starts at 12:30 now on AS), plus Pokemon/Bakugan, and the hope of 2 new anime series coming to CN, I'd say the light at the end of the tunnel is getting brighter.

[macattack]

Guin Saga and Battle Spirits both look pretty good and I wouldn't mind CN picking up either of these series. I enjoy Bakugan and I can sometimes find myself enjoying Pokemon so the addition of Guin and Battle Spirits bundled along with the anime CN airs on Adult Swim, I don't see a whole lot of hate going on over at CN towards anime when you look at the bigger picture, I just think it comes down to fear of anime not being profitable anymore in 2009 as it was back in 2003-2004. Either way, there is still anime to enjoy on Saturday nights (Bleach starts at 12:30 now on AS), plus Pokemon/Bakugan, and the hope of 2 new anime series coming to CN, I'd say the light at the end of the tunnel is getting brighter.

I DID NOT SAY that those two series were gonna come to CN. I said they would make good additions. And one thing I forgot to mention is that it's prudent to take whatever is said on the ASMB with a colossal grain of salt. There's people there who have connections but those connections are not always correct.

AS Saturday nights is a disguised Toonami Midnight Run at this point. I'm not happy that everything's shoved onto one night but double Bleach premieres start on the 18th and new Code Geass starts on the 25th so I'm not going to complain that much.

And remember, Naruto was doing quite well even without advertisement and a consistent timeslot. That's the main sticking point here. And that's what leaves me convinced that CN isn't fearful of anime bombing, they just plain don't like it. But other posters don't feel that way and I respect that.

[Light Lucario]

I DID NOT SAY that those two series were gonna come to CN. I said they would make good additions. And one thing I forgot to mention is that it's prudent to take whatever is said on the ASMB with a colossal grain of salt. There's people there who have connections but those connections are not always correct.

AS Saturday nights is a disguised Toonami Midnight Run at this point. I'm not happy that everything's shoved onto one night but double Bleach premieres start on the 18th and new Code Geass starts on the 25th so I'm not going to complain that much.

And remember, Naruto was doing quite well even without advertisement and a consistent timeslot. That's the main sticking point here. And that's what leaves me convinced that CN isn't fearful of anime bombing, they just plain don't like it. But other posters don't feel that way and I respect that.

While I understand where you're coming from regarding Naruto, I'm not sure if the treatment of one anime series that was doing well on their lineup means that they don't like all anime. Saying that someone in charge may not like Naruto would make better sense to me in this particular argument, especially since they have no problem treating a couple of other anime series, Pokemon and Bakugan, fine. I do respect your point of view and I am glad to hear that you respect others opinions as well.

[CottonSwab]

I DID NOT SAY that those two series were gonna come to CN. I said they would make good additions. And one thing I forgot to mention is that it's prudent to take whatever is said on the ASMB with a colossal grain of salt. There's people there who have connections but those connections are not always correct.

AS Saturday nights is a disguised Toonami Midnight Run at this point. I'm not happy that everything's shoved onto one night but double Bleach premieres start on the 18th and new Code Geass starts on the 25th so I'm not going to complain that much.

And remember, Naruto was doing quite well even without advertisement and a consistent timeslot. That's the main sticking point here. And that's what leaves me convinced that CN isn't fearful of anime bombing, they just plain don't like it. But other posters don't feel that way and I respect that.

Well if you read my post carfully you would see that I said "With the HOPE of two more series....", meaning that it may be a longshot but it's a possibility and all I did was agree that I liked how they looked and wouldn't mind seeing them on CN at some point. I enjoy AS on Saturday nights, it's got a nice balance of anime and most of it keeps my interest, I too am eagerly awaiting new episodes of Code Geass. But as it pertains to Naruto, it did good a while ago, when anime was thriving in the United States, it isn't thriving that well now and I see CN as being fearful that airing an anime that isn't "kiddie" in a major timeslot that it would fail. I think a lot of people on forums such as this would be interested in anime returning to CN and would tune in, and it would create some new fans just by airing on CN in general, but I don't see droves and droves of people in massive numbers tuning into CN just to watch anime, I don't think it has that kind of impact anymore as it did 4-5 years ago. Plus most of the series CN would get would most likely have already been available to watch online and have already been viewed with subs, which most hardcore anime prefer as opposed to dubs.

[Master Moron]

While I understand where you're coming from regarding Naruto, I'm not sure if the treatment of one anime series that was doing well on their lineup means that they don't like all anime. Saying that someone in charge may not like Naruto would make better sense to me in this particular argument, especially since they have no problem treating a couple of other anime series, Pokemon and Bakugan, fine. I do respect your point of view and I am glad to hear that you respect others opinions as well.

Well, yeah, when we say "Cartoon Network hates anime" we're obviously not saying that every single person at Cartoon Network including the mailboy hates anime. We're merely saying the people who program the network hate anime. Whether it's one exec or ten, who knows? But, it seems clear that there's someone at the network who hates anime. Pokemon and Bakugan are kind of irrelevant since Cartoon Network makes a profit from the merchandise.

Well if you read my post carfully you would see that I said "With the HOPE of two more series....", meaning that it may be a longshot but it's a possibility and all I did was agree that I liked how they looked and wouldn't mind seeing them on CN at some point. I enjoy AS on Saturday nights, it's got a nice balance of anime and most of it keeps my interest, I too am eagerly awaiting new episodes of Code Geass. But as it pertains to Naruto, it did good a while ago, when anime was thriving in the United States, it isn't thriving that well now and I see CN as being fearful that airing an anime that isn't "kiddie" in a major timeslot that it would fail.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say Naruto isn't thriving now. The DVDs and manga still sell last time I checked. Besides, even if the sales of Naruto merchandise have gone down in recent months, that probably would have been caused by Cartoon Network taking it off the air. I mean, you can't take something off the air and then say "See, look, it's not thriving anymore." when it was thriving just fine when it was airing.

I think a lot of people on forums such as this would be interested in anime returning to CN and would tune in, and it would create some new fans just by airing on CN in general, but I don't see droves and droves of people in massive numbers tuning into CN just to watch anime, I don't think it has that kind of impact anymore as it did 4-5 years ago. Plus most of the series CN would get would most likely have already been available to watch online and have already been viewed with subs, which most hardcore anime prefer as opposed to dubs.

This may be true for anime on Adult Swim, but I don't think it's true for Cartoon Network. Most kids don't like watching subtitled stuff. Naruto still got over a million viewers even during its filler episodes with no ads. It seems clear that there were more than enough people willing to watch the dub on TV.

[Rolling Cloud]

Battle Spirits is better than Bakugan and Pokemon. Good enough for me. :sweat: Still, this show isn't exactly my speed by any means.

Guin Saga and Battle Spirits both look pretty good

Really? I watched at least 3 episodes & thought Battle Spirits looked pretty generic. oO

[CottonSwab]

Well, yeah, when we say "Cartoon Network hates anime" we're obviously not saying that every single person at Cartoon Network including the mailboy hates anime. We're merely saying the people who program the network hate anime. Whether it's one exec or ten, who knows? But, it seems clear that there's someone at the network who hates anime. Pokemon and Bakugan are kind of irrelevant since Cartoon Network makes a profit from the merchandise.



I'm not sure what you mean when you say Naruto isn't thriving now. The DVDs and manga still sell last time I checked. Besides, even if the sales of Naruto merchandise have gone down in recent months, that probably would have been caused by Cartoon Network taking it off the air. I mean, you can't take something off the air and then say "See, look, it's not thriving anymore." when it was thriving just fine when it was airing.



This may be true for anime on Adult Swim, but I don't think it's true for Cartoon Network. Most kids don't like watching subtitled stuff. Naruto still got over a million viewers even during its filler episodes with no ads. It seems clear that there were more than enough people willing to watch the dub on TV.

Last I heard, when CN was airing Naruto after Action Flicks on Saturday nights, it was not pulling in much for ratings, since I heard this from someone else's mouth, I could be wrong. But if it was scoring good ratings as you mentioned I would have a hard time believing CN would take it off in favor of putting something else on that may not garner a rating higher than Naruto got just because "anime is a part of the old regime.", as someone else mentioned as the reason anime is low on CN. I know the manga is selling well in the United States, but I think I read on ANN that the last Naruto volume that came out sold pretty low, but they may have been talking about the last movie, I am not sure because it has been a while since I read it, so I apolagize.

[D Dubbs]

Really? I watched at least 3 episodes & thought Battle Spirits looked pretty generic. oO

Generic? Yeah, I suppose, since it doesn't really bring anything new to the table. But it's pretty entertaining, at least in my opinion. And the TCG that the show is based on was in development for three years (and one of the creators developed Magic: The Gathering), so it has that going for it as well. I plan on watching it when/if it comes to the states, provided it has a better dub than Bakugan.

Oh, and the overall series composition is by Dai Sato, who has worked on Cowboy Bebop, Eureka Seven and Ghost in the Shell, among others.

[The Wolverine]

Well, yeah, when we say "Cartoon Network hates anime" we're obviously not saying that every single person at Cartoon Network including the mailboy hates anime. We're merely saying the people who program the network hate anime. Whether it's one exec or ten, who knows? But, it seems clear that there's someone at the network who hates anime.
No proof of this has been provided yet. Until there is, quit trying to pass it off as fact.

Pokemon and Bakugan are kind of irrelevant since Cartoon Network makes a profit from the merchandise.

They're still anime series. If someone at CN hated anime, they'd remove it regardless.

[Master Moron]

Last I heard, when CN was airing Naruto after Action Flicks on Saturday nights, it was not pulling in much for ratings, since I heard this from someone else's mouth, I could be wrong. But if it was scoring good ratings as you mentioned I would have a hard time believing CN would take it off in favor of putting something else on that may not garner a rating higher than Naruto got just because "anime is a part of the old regime.", as someone else mentioned as the reason anime is low on CN. I know the manga is selling well in the United States, but I think I read on ANN that the last Naruto volume that came out sold pretty low, but they may have been talking about the last movie, I am not sure because it has been a while since I read it, so I apolagize.

As the first post on this thread specified, the second to last new episode of Naruto to air got about 1.5 million viewers. It was just below Batman: The Brave and the Bold for that week and keep in mind that Batman gets advertised constantly while Naruto never gets advertised. I'm not too sure about the manga, but it's somewhat irrelevant if last month's volume had lower sales since Naruto was already off of Cartoon Network by that point.

No proof of this has been provided yet. Until there is, quit trying to pass it off as fact.


There's been plenty of proof provided. You just choose to ignore it.

[The Wolverine]

There's been plenty of proof provided. You just choose to ignore it.

Nope. All I see are just a bunch of assumptions.

[Foxface321]

Ehh, I think that theyd air anime that would sell. You have to admit it though CN's making enough money on the Card/Monster genre :p

[The Huntsman]

Nope. All I see are just a bunch of assumptions.Bingo. It’s all been conjecture so far. People are connecting the dots, but since the dots have no numbers, people are merely assuming that they have connected the dots properly. They can’t prove that they’re right and we can’t prove that they’re wrong, so it’s all just conjecture. Nobody has definitively proven that Cartoon Network hates anime.

[Master Moron]

Bingo. It’s all been conjecture so far. People are connecting the dots, but since the dots have no numbers, people are merely assuming that they have connected the dots properly. They can’t prove that they’re right and we can’t prove that they’re wrong, so it’s all just conjecture. Nobody has definitively proven that Cartoon Network hates anime.

It's impossible to prove it absolutely. Even if a CN exec comes out and says they hate anime one could conjecture that they're lying. So far, the evidence seems to point towards the direction that Cartoon Network does hate anime. It's certainly not absolute, but it's the most likely answer. I mean, it's like if someone completely ignores you whenever you try to talk to them it's likely that they hate you. Sure, there's other possibilities. Maybe they're shy or mute. But, then when you witness them talking to other people you eliminate those possibilities and come to the conclusion that they hate you. You can never eliminate all of the other possibilities because you can't read minds, but you come to the most likely conclusion anyway.

[The Wolverine]

It's impossible to prove it absolutely. Even if a CN exec comes out and says they hate anime one could conjecture that they're lying. So far, the evidence seems to point towards the direction that Cartoon Network does hate anime. It's certainly not absolute, but it's the most likely answer. I mean, it's like if someone completely ignores you whenever you try to talk to them it's likely that they hate you. Sure, there's other possibilities. Maybe they're shy or mute. But, then when you witness them talking to other people you eliminate those possibilities and come to the conclusion that they hate you. You can never eliminate all of the other possibilities because you can't read minds, but you come to the most likely conclusion anyway.

Well, I haven't even seen evidence. It's all just guessing at this point.

[Jave]

Well, I haven't even seen evidence. It's all just guessing at this point.Evidence is something people use to support their theories. It's not necessarily something that absolutely proves anything. In this case, CN's treatment of certain series IS the evidence. It may or may not be true, but unless there's a bigger piece of evidence to prove otherwise, it's what it is.

[The Overlord]

Evidence is something people use to support their theories. It's not necessarily something that absolutely proves anything. In this case, CN's treatment of certain series IS the evidence. It may or may not be true, but unless there's a bigger piece of evidence to prove otherwise, it's what it is.

All this evidence is circumstanial at best, unfounded hearsay at worst.

In a legal case, something has to proven beyond a reasonable doubt for a guilty verdict to be rendered, can anyone prove this beyond a resonable doubt?

[Jave]

All this evidence is circumstanial at best, unfounded hearsay at worst.I never said it wasn't circumstantial, but evidence nonetheless.

In a legal case, something has to proven beyond a reasonable doubt for a guilty verdict to be rendered, can anyone prove this beyond a resonable doubt?In a legal case, it's up to a jury's decision whether a person is guilty or not, as a jury can be convinced that a person is guilty sometimes without any evidence at all. Not only is it possible, but it has happened.

[Mickialla]

All this evidence is circumstanial at best, unfounded hearsay at worst.

In a legal case, something has to proven beyond a reasonable doubt for a guilty verdict to be rendered, can anyone prove this beyond a resonable doubt?
Well, all evidence for and against the argument is circumstantial. There's good evidence that they hate anime and theres good evidence that they don't. Personally I don't think they hate anime. I'm not saying they don't have a reason for not airing/buying more and that it's just coincidence, but the reason isn't some illl-founded hatred or xenophobia. I mean, what reason would Cartoon Nerwork have for hating anime? Even if anime got horrible ratings, or if they didn't get a share of the toy sales, it still doesn't mean they hate it, it just means they don't think it's worth it. Of course anyone can disagree with me, and neither I nor they will be able to come up with a good enough argument to ultimately decide whether or not Cartoon Network hates anime.

[Jave]

Well, all evidence for and against the argument is circumstantial. There's good evidence that they hate anime and theres good evidence that they don't. Personally I don't think they hate anime. I'm not saying they don't have a reason for not airing/buying more and that it's just coincidence, but the reason isn't some illl-founded hatred or xenophobia. I mean, what reason would Cartoon Nerwork have for hating anime? Even if anime got horrible ratings, or if they didn't get a share of the toy sales, it still doesn't mean they hate it, it just means they don't think it's worth it. Of course anyone can disagree with me, and neither I nor they will be able to come up with a good enough argument to ultimately decide whether or not Cartoon Network hates anime.Well, I've already stated that I don't believe they hate anime (there's not ENOUGH evidence to convince me of that), however, I can see where those who believe so are coming from.

I do still believe though, that somebody in there doesn't like Naruto.

[warnerbroman]

All this evidence is circumstanial at best, unfounded hearsay at worst.

In a legal case, something has to proven beyond a reasonable doubt for a guilty verdict to be rendered, can anyone prove this beyond a resonable doubt?if you say that in front of a jury they will belive the hate though

[peterg14]

I still think throwing around "xenophobia" isn't right. Or at least its too strong a word. That would mean that someone hates ALL FOREIGN THINGS, not just a select one. If CN was truly xenophobic, they would only have shows from a America, and wouldn't acquire a thing from Canada or Japan. Pokemon and Bakugan, 6Teen, TDI, Johnny Test, would be gone because they aren't from America is CN was truly xenophobic.

It may be more or less favoritism with stuff like Naruto getting the boot, but I don't think CN's treatment of anime is some form of racism.

[CottonSwab]

if you say that in front of a jury they will belive the hate though

Well that would all depend on what kind of jury you have. Remember, jury's are selected by both the victim's attourneys and the defense attourneys and those who may sway toward one side without a clear mind are usualy weeded out. If you were to present this case to a jury who was 100% non-swayed to either side and had no knowledge of the CN/Anime situation then I really believe that the jury would decide in the favor of CN not having a vendetta against anime due to the fact that CN airs anime throughout the week (Pokemon, Bakugan) and on Saturday nights during Adult Swim. That alone would sway the jury to see that CN really does not hate anime and that CN may have other reasons for removing certain anime from the network, including the entire Toonami block, which there are better arguments than "CN hates anime because they cancelled Toonami!" to be made for it's demise. This argument is getting tired because the people who feel CN does hate anime will not change their minds, and the people who feel CN does not hate anime will not change their minds so all in all this whole topic has become a stalemate.

[macattack]

Well that would all depend on what kind of jury you have. Remember, jury's are selected by both the victim's attourneys and the defense attourneys and those who may sway toward one side without a clear mind are usualy weeded out. If you were to present this case to a jury who was 100% non-swayed to either side and had no knowledge of the CN/Anime situation then I really believe that the jury would decide in the favor of CN not having a vendetta against anime due to the fact that CN airs anime throughout the week (Pokemon, Bakugan) and on Saturday nights during Adult Swim. That alone would sway the jury to see that CN really does not hate anime and that CN may have other reasons for removing certain anime from the network, including the entire Toonami block, which there are better arguments than "CN hates anime because they cancelled Toonami!" to be made for it's demise. This argument is getting tired because the people who feel CN does hate anime will not change their minds, and the people who feel CN does not hate anime will not change their minds so all in all this whole topic has become a stalemate.

It's a stalemate that may change in a few weeks as Pokemon premieres are going to stop for apparently no reason.

[CottonSwab]

It's a stalemate that may change in a few weeks as Pokemon premieres are going to stop for apparently no reason.

We don't know the reason.... yet. It could be something as simple as dubbing, or behind the scenes paperwork or a number of other things. Pokemon has been doing pretty good with ratings from what I read and I don't see some evil exec sitting at a desk with a sinister smile on his facing saying, "Oh boy, I can't wait to stop these highly rated premiers of Pokemon and risk replacing it with something that may not get better ratings, oh boy, where do I sign!!!", see what I am saying? And if that is what is happening then someone needs to fire him because that makes no sense what so ever, and the goal for a network is to pull in ratings regardless of personal taste.

[chdr]

It's a stalemate that may change in a few weeks as Pokemon premieres are going to stop for apparently no reason.There has been no confirmation of that. The only reason why CN took breaks between seasons before was because they burned through them at such a fast rate. Now that CN is going once-a-week, PUSA should have next-sseason episodes ready to air by now.

[The Overlord]

I never said it wasn't circumstantial, but evidence nonetheless.

In a legal case, it's up to a jury's decision whether a person is guilty or not, as a jury can be convinced that a person is guilty sometimes without any evidence at all. Not only is it possible, but it has happened.

None of this evidence proves anything one way or another, heck I can come up with any theory based on the evidence.

Maybe CN has been taken over by CSIS, the Canadian intelligence agency, which is forcing CN to stop airing anime and air Canadian Flash cartoons instead, in an attempt to brainwash American kids into supporting socialized medcine and liking Byran Adams. That makes about as much sense as saying CN woke up one morning and just decided they didn't like Japanese cartoons.

[macattack]

There has been no confirmation of that. The only reason why CN took breaks between seasons before was because they burned through them at such a fast rate. Now that CN is going once-a-week, PUSA should have next-sseason episodes ready to air by now.

That's why I said "apparently". It's not an absolute yet. I am just going by what's been reported so far. That's all. You're right in that PUSA should have next-season episodes ready to go by now but right now there is no confirmation that the next season will continue immediately like what happened between D&P and D&P Battle Dimension.

Pokemon is an unknown at this time. And right now that means that this discussion/argument will probably be in a stalemate until we find out what is happening to the show.

[Mickialla]

Well that would all depend on what kind of jury you have. Remember, jury's are selected by both the victim's attourneys and the defense attourneys and those who may sway toward one side without a clear mind are usualy weeded out. If you were to present this case to a jury who was 100% non-swayed to either side and had no knowledge of the CN/Anime situation then I really believe that the jury would decide in the favor of CN not having a vendetta against anime due to the fact that CN airs anime throughout the week (Pokemon, Bakugan) and on Saturday nights during Adult Swim. That alone would sway the jury to see that CN really does not hate anime and that CN may have other reasons for removing certain anime from the network, including the entire Toonami block, which there are better arguments than "CN hates anime because they cancelled Toonami!" to be made for it's demise. This argument is getting tired because the people who feel CN does hate anime will not change their minds, and the people who feel CN does not hate anime will not change their minds so all in all this whole topic has become a stalemate.

Well, first off, you can't really bring in the anime aired on Adult Swim into the situation. While Williams Street and Adult Swim are both a part of Cartoon Network, Cartoon Network does allow them to operate separately from the rest of the network, and they have a different staff running [as]. While I don't think Cartoon Network hates anime, and Pokemon and Bakugan's airings are a part of that, you can't say that there hasn't been a change at all in the amount of anime Cartoon Network has aired. There must've been one point where Cartoon Network was airing 10+ anime, and now they're down to 2 anime which don't even air in primetime slots. There are tons of viable reasons for this: The anime market in Japan isn't as booming as in previous days, they don't have as much money to purchase/dub anime, they're too busy focusing on expanding their "development slate" with live-action (:shrug:), who knows. All of these can be argued, and neither you nor I can prove which reason it is. My opinion is simply that there is a clear reason as to why anime isn't as abundant as in previous years and that reason is not a hatred towards anime.

[CottonSwab]

Well, first off, you can't really bring in the anime aired on Adult Swim into the situation. While Williams Street and Adult Swim are both a part of Cartoon Network, Cartoon Network does allow them to operate separately from the rest of the network, and they have a different staff running [as]. While I don't think Cartoon Network hates anime, and Pokemon and Bakugan's airings are a part of that, you can't say that there hasn't been a change at all in the amount of anime Cartoon Network has aired. There must've been one point where Cartoon Network was airing 10+ anime, and now they're down to 2 anime which don't even air in primetime slots. There are tons of viable reasons for this: The anime market in Japan isn't as booming as in previous days, they don't have as much money to purchase/dub anime, they're too busy focusing on expanding their "development slate" with live-action (:shrug:), who knows. All of these can be argued, and neither you nor I can prove which reason it is. My opinion is simply that there is a clear reason as to why anime isn't as abundant as in previous years and that reason is not a hatred towards anime.

While CN allows AS to opertate seperatly, AS is still a part of CN and if CN had a major issue with AS airing anime then they would make the change. Simple as that. Also, CN does air anime in primetime slots, I remember seeing about a half dozen Naruto movies followed by an episode of Naruto from about October 2008-Februrary of 2009 (or maybe a little earlier), plus Pokemon and Bakugan air on great timeslots on satAM (which could be considered satAM primetime), and correct me if I am wrong but did CN not play the hell out of the 11th Pokemon movie? I do believe so. While there has definatly been a change in anime, or a shift in the ammount aired, I cannot bring myself to say that CN hates anime and is trying to kill it, because there is not enough evidence to support that argument.

[Jave]

While CN allows AS to opertate seperatly, AS is still a part of CN and if CN had a major issue with AS airing anime then they would make the change. Simple as that. Also, CN does air anime in primetime slots, I remember seeing about a half dozen Naruto movies followed by an episode of Naruto from about October 2008-Februrary of 2009 (or maybe a little earlier), plus Pokemon and Bakugan air on great timeslots on satAM (which could be considered satAM primetime), and correct me if I am wrong but did CN not play the hell out of the 11th Pokemon movie? I do believe so. While there has definatly been a change in anime, or a shift in the ammount aired, I cannot bring myself to say that CN hates anime and is trying to kill it, because there is not enough evidence to support that argument.Uh... what?

You have no idea what primetime is, do you?

[macattack]

CottonSwab, "Prime Time" is the 7:00 p.m.-9:00 p.m. timeslots on Monday-Thursdays (or Mon-Friday if you want to be polite). Anime does not air in those timeslots on CN. The closest that has happened anywhere remotely close to recently was Naruto's spin at the 10:30 p.m. slot in early 2008.

[CottonSwab]

Uh... what?

You have no idea what primetime is, do you?

I do know what primetime is, but there is more than one prime time (in my eyes anyway). I know that primetime is 8pm-11pm at night, or somewhere within that time frame, but primetime for satAM could be construde as 9am-Noon and both Pokemon and Bakugan both air during that time. but my argument was that Naruto (movies and the show), Pokemon (movies and show), Bakugan and AS saturday nights all have aired and in most cases within key timeslots throughout the new "regime" and I don't see a real argument that CN hates anime besides the death of Toonami (which I have other opinions as to why it was cancelled.).

[Jave]

I do know what primetime is, but there is more than one prime time (in my eyes anyway). I know that primetime is 8pm-11pm at night, or somewhere within that time frame, but primetime for satAM could be construde as 9am-Noon and both Pokemon and Bakugan both air during that time.Don't be ridiculous. You can't distort facts for your convenience just so that they can fit in your argument. What you're saying is completely irrelevant, not to mention rendering your whole argument invalid.

[CottonSwab]

Don't be ridiculous. You can't distort facts for your convenience just so that they can fit in your argument. What you're saying is completely irrelevant, not to mention rendering your whole argument invalid.

I don't see why I am not allowed to have an opinion on when key "prime time" slots fall during a Saturday morning cartoon block, prime time shouldn't be limited to general consensus of it falling during nighttime, but okay. Anyway, the fact remains that the Naruto movies and shows, Pokemon movies and shows, Bakugan and a host of other anime on Adult Swim have all aired on CN regardless of the time slot, and with that being said, nobody can say that CN is targeting anime directly without it being either speculation or personal opinion. I do understand why people would say it is because they don't always air the shows during what most people consider to be "Prime Time", and they cancelled Toonami, I just see it different is all and all I am doing is giving my opinion of it, just like everyone else. I respect the views, thoughts and opinions of others and I enjoy reading what people have to say on this matter.

[Jave]

I don't see why I am not allowed to have an opinion on when key "prime time" slots fall during a Saturday morning cartoon block, prime time shouldn't be limited to general consensus of it falling during nighttime, but okay. Anyway, the fact remains that the Naruto movies and shows, Pokemon movies and shows, Bakugan and a host of other anime on Adult Swim have all aired on CN regardless of the time slot, and with that being said, nobody can say that CN is targeting anime directly without it being either speculation or personal opinion. I do understand why people would say it is because they don't always air the shows during what most people consider to be "Prime Time", and they cancelled Toonami, I just see it different is all and all I am doing is giving my opinion of it, just like everyone else. I respect the views, thoughts and opinions of others and I enjoy reading what people have to say on this matter.It's not "what most people consider to be primetime". It's what primetime is. You're not entitled to an opinion to what you consider to be primetime because primetime has a straight definition. You just can't go around distorting that, unless you want people to not take your posts seriously.

[Mickialla]

While CN allows AS to opertate seperatly, AS is still a part of CN and if CN had a major issue with AS airing anime then they would make the change. Simple as that. Also, CN does air anime in primetime slots, I remember seeing about a half dozen Naruto movies followed by an episode of Naruto from about October 2008-Februrary of 2009 (or maybe a little earlier), plus Pokemon and Bakugan air on great timeslots on satAM (which could be considered satAM primetime), and correct me if I am wrong but did CN not play the hell out of the 11th Pokemon movie? I do believe so. While there has definatly been a change in anime, or a shift in the ammount aired, I cannot bring myself to say that CN hates anime and is trying to kill it, because there is not enough evidence to support that argument.

On the whole "how much power CN has over [as]", you don't know how the executive hierarchy works within the insides of Cartoon Network Inc. and neither do I. All I know is that the [as] is a part of Cartoon Network but it operates separately. I doubt if Stuart Snyder went up to Mike Lazzo and co. and told them to stop airing Bleach or Code Geass that they'd agree without knowing the reason first. I doubt Snyder or any of the Cartoon Network higher-ups even have that power. Maybe someone from the Turner higher-ups that control the CN higher-ups, but that's it.
While those slots you mentioned aren't primetime slots, I will agree that those time slots are valid slots that are watched often and can be considered "second to primetime" slots. However, Naruto and the Naruto movies are no longer airing in that Saturday night slot, and when they were, they were unadvertised. And that Pokemon movie only aired twice on YAH if I'm correct, and I think they did well both times and still there's been no change in the amount of anime.
As for the importance of the Saturday morning slots, I think it's important that Cartoon Network has a strong SatAM block, but for kids networks like Cartoon Network that have kids watching their channel all day long, Saturday morning isn't as much of a concern as it is for "real" networks (ABC, Fox, CW), who sometimes rely solely on their SatAm block to garner kids ratings. Cartoon Network doesn't really compete with those Saturday morning blocks such as CW4Kids because it shows kids shows all day long, CW doesn't. And even if Cartoon Network did value the Saturday morning slot (which I think it should even if it is a kids channel), Saturday mornings still wouldn't be "prime time". It's not a matter of what hours are important to a specific network, it's a matter of strict definition. "Prime time" is, in television lingo, strictly from 7-9 on weekdays. But I do understand what you mean when you say "Prime time", you just can't call it that because people will think you're talking about 7-9 on weekdays.
As I said before, I don't think Cartoon Network hates anime. So therefore, I do agree with you. But I'm not saying that it's just a coincidence that Cartoon Network is airing less anime now than they have been before. Something is up, whether it's a matter of money or whether Cartoon Network wants to profit from toys or who knows. All I'm saying is I don't think it's a hatred of anime.

[CottonSwab]

On the whole "how much power CN has over [as]", you don't know how the executive hierarchy works within the insides of Cartoon Network Inc. and neither do I. All I know is that the [as] is a part of Cartoon Network but it operates separately. I doubt if Stuart Snyder went up to Mike Lazzo and co. and told them to stop airing Bleach or Code Geass that they'd agree without knowing the reason first. I doubt Snyder or any of the Cartoon Network higher-ups even have that power. Maybe someone from the Turner higher-ups that control the CN higher-ups, but that's it.
While those slots you mentioned aren't primetime slots, I will agree that those time slots are valid slots that are watched often and can be considered "second to primetime" slots. However, Naruto and the Naruto movies are no longer airing in that Saturday night slot, and when they were, they were unadvertised. And that Pokemon movie only aired twice on YAH if I'm correct, and I think they did well both times and still there's been no change in the amount of anime.
As for the importance of the Saturday morning slots, I think it's important that Cartoon Network has a strong SatAM block, but for kids networks like Cartoon Network that have kids watching their channel all day long, Saturday morning isn't as much of a concern as it is for "real" networks (ABC, Fox, CW), who sometimes rely solely on their SatAm block to garner kids ratings. Cartoon Network doesn't really compete with those Saturday morning blocks such as CW4Kids because it shows kids shows all day long, CW doesn't. And even if Cartoon Network did value the Saturday morning slot (which I think it should even if it is a kids channel), Saturday mornings still wouldn't be "prime time". It's not a matter of what hours are important to a specific network, it's a matter of strict definition. "Prime time" is, in television lingo, strictly from 7-9 on weekdays. But I do understand what you mean when you say "Prime time", you just can't call it that because people will think you're talking about 7-9 on weekdays.
As I said before, I don't think Cartoon Network hates anime. So therefore, I do agree with you. But I'm not saying that it's just a coincidence that Cartoon Network is airing less anime now than they have been before. Something is up, whether it's a matter of money or whether Cartoon Network wants to profit from toys or who knows. All I'm saying is I don't think it's a hatred of anime.

Okay, when I used the word "prime time" I was referring to a "key time", which is the term I will ue for now on to explain a good time slot. I understand what "prime time" is, I just needed a word to describe the timeslot's I was referring to and "Key Time" works nicely. As for the CN/AS control thing, I agree, I don't know how the totem pole works, but one would assume that since AS is on CN that the CN higher up's would have the final say over what airs on AS, but maybe thats just an assumption or an opinion, whatever the case anime is anime and it's airing on the same channel which is the bottom line. I personally hope all this live action stuff fails and then CN decides to air more anime, it would be a nice thing to see, but I can't jump on the "CN hates anime" bandwagon because in my view there is no real argument to support it, but mabe all the Naruto, Pokemon, Bakugan and AS stuff isn't much of an argument either, but it's an enjoyable topic and some of my favorite posters here have jumped in on it and it's fun to read and be a part of. Let the discussion continue.

[Light Lucario]

Well, yeah, when we say "Cartoon Network hates anime" we're obviously not saying that every single person at Cartoon Network including the mailboy hates anime. We're merely saying the people who program the network hate anime. Whether it's one exec or ten, who knows? But, it seems clear that there's someone at the network who hates anime. Pokemon and Bakugan are kind of irrelevant since Cartoon Network makes a profit from the merchandise.

I'm still not sold on that people there hate all anime. If that was the case, then Pokemon and Bakugan would be gone as well. Regardless of whether or not CN does get some profit from the merchandise, if they really hated anime, they would get rid of those shows. I can still see where you're coming from and I respect that. Like Jave, I think that someone in charge, or some group of people, may not like Naruto, since it was taken off despite still getting fairly good ratings, but I don't think that it's means that they hate all anime.

As for Pokemon's newest season, while CN didn't burn through the episodes of this season as much as they did for the last couple of seasons, I still think that they'll take a break before the new season preimers. PUSA should have some new episodes ready, but that really depends when they started working on them and how many CN may want ready before airing new episodes. Besides, it isn't like they aren't going to play the next new season. They did mention in the Upfront how Pokemon was returning as well with new episodes.

[Mickialla]

Another thing to keep in mind is that Cartoon Network is a business that worries about money. Even if the executives did hate anime, they wouldn't get rid of it if it was getting good ratings just because they hated it. If you own a candy shop and you personally don't like lollipops, you're not going to stop selling lollipops because kids love them. The executives' personal interests won't effect the network's programming because they care first and foremost about money. Then again, some of the execs currently running the network probably don't like cartoons in general, so it can be argued that that's why there's so much live-action coming soon. But that's just speculation. But Cartoon Network being a business who cares about money before its personal interests, I'm pretty sure that's a fact.

[The Huntsman]

But Cartoon Network being a business who cares about money before its personal interests, I'm pretty sure that's a fact.And they have had three consecutive quarters of growth, which is very good for business. After Toonami came to an end and You Are Here was created, the network had a 24% increase in audience over the same time period in 2007. I think that should be taken into consideration.

[CottonSwab]

And they have had three consecutive quarters of growth, which is very good for business. After Toonami came to an end and You Are Here was created, the network had a 24% increase in audience over the same time period in 2007. I think that should be taken into consideration.

Wow. That is huge, huge information Huntsman, info that I didn't know. I knew that CN set a slew of records for themselves in 2008 and that YAH was doing well, but a 24% increase is not a small number to scoff at, a 24% increase could equal millions upon millions of dollars for a network and enable them to do things that they couldn't do without it. Stuff like this makes me think that it's definatly more of a business decision not to air anime as opposed to a personal reason, and this info is making me think that You Are Here is going to stick around.

[Raidon Makoto]

And they have had three consecutive quarters of growth, which is very good for business. After Toonami came to an end and You Are Here was created, the network had a 24% increase in audience over the same time period in 2007. I think that should be taken into consideration.
Dude, anything could get better ratings compared to CN in 2007 (except Saturdays). That's really not saying much.

Now, if we want to compare it to... let's say, 2002 or 2003, then I think they might have a little trouble.

[J!!!]

Dude, anything could get better ratings compared to CN in 2007 (except Saturdays). That's really not saying much.

Now, if we want to compare it to... let's say, 2002 or 2003, then I think they might have a little trouble.

Didn‘t weekdays afternoons do better in 07?

[Jave]

Wow. That is huge, huge information Huntsman, info that I didn't know. I knew that CN set a slew of records for themselves in 2008 and that YAH was doing well, but a 24% increase is not a small number to scoff at, a 24% increase could equal millions upon millions of dollars for a network and enable them to do things that they couldn't do without it. Stuff like this makes me think that it's definatly more of a business decision not to air anime as opposed to a personal reason, and this info is making me think that You Are Here is going to stick around....

You have NO IDEA how ratings work, do you?

[warnerbroman]

...

You have NO IDEA how ratings work, do you?me neither.....

[Daxdiv]

...

You have NO IDEA how ratings work, do you?

The only thing I know is just that it is determined by whoever has a Nielson box, everything else I don't care for.http://forums.funpiece.com/style_emoticons/default/1235011799-useremo.gif

[Jave]

The only thing I know is just that it is determined by whoever has a Nielson box, everything else I don't care for.http://forums.funpiece.com/style_emoticons/default/1235011799-useremo.gifI'm talking about how do ratings generate money for a network.

Because it seems to me that a lot of people here think that the higher the ratings, the executives' paychecks magically get higher.

Or that they have this magic machine that prints money according to rating numbers.

[Daxdiv]

I'm talking about how do ratings generate money for a network.

Because it seems to me that a lot of people here think that the higher the ratings, the executives' paychecks magically get higher.

Or that they have this magic machine that prints money according to rating numbers.


OHH!! That process, my ignorance on that subject might have to do with my "I don't care" style when it comes to the whole rating mumbo-jumbo, since really I don't care how something does in the ratings, since I just enjoy the show, if I were to worry about it, I would need to rethink my outlook on life, since I am in no way at the current time working at CN.

But I guess my curiosity now peak because of that, since I never really understood that part on the "HOW?"

[CottonSwab]

...

You have NO IDEA how ratings work, do you?

Well, what I do understand is that a huge increase in viewership also equals lots of advertising dollars for a network which increases revenue. Companies will pay big bucks to air commercials durinng highly rated shows on networks which equal more money for the network airing these shows, and if there is a big increase of 24% or whatever the figure is then companies will see that as an oppertunity to get more people to see their ad's so they go to the networks to buy advertising time. An increase is an increase, and obviously ratings will rise when there is a 24% viewer increase over the previous years numbers. Other than that, much like Daxdiv, I never cared much for examining ratings or anything like that, I tend to just watch my favorite programs without worry of ratings or scheduling problems because I feel I get the best out of my veiwing experience by doing so. Maybe if I was a network executive then I would have no choice but to care, but I leave that stuff by the wayside and enjoy my shows the way I like to, which is something I think everyone should.

[macattack]

What do you guys think of the theory that CN is pursuing anime licenses directly instead of grabbing them from third parties? On the ASMB, the rumor why Kim Manning is going to Japan isn't to scoop up licensed anime like the new FMA series, but to license various shows directly, Bakugan-style. Granted, it is a rumor based on assumptions (and we all know what "assume" does) but the theory makes sense IMO, even though I think it is being overly hopeful.

[Ian Hatfield]

Given Kim Manning's track record, I doubt anything will come out of this trip. Sure, they may license some short piece of crap no one cares about, but even that's a stretch.

[CottonSwab]

What do you guys think of the theory that CN is pursuing anime licenses directly instead of grabbing them from third parties? On the ASMB, the rumor why Kim Manning is going to Japan isn't to scoop up licensed anime like the new FMA series, but to license various shows directly, Bakugan-style. Granted, it is a rumor based on assumptions (and we all know what "assume" does) but the theory makes sense IMO, even though I think it is being overly hopeful.

It's rumers like this that make me think that there is light at the end of the tunnel for anime on CN. Sure, it's based on a card game and could probably be construde as "kiddie" anime, but it is anime regardless and if CN is willing to air it then thats awesome. I like Bakugan, and I have been enjoying 5 D's on CW4Kids so a new anime on CN based around a card game would be okay with me, it would at least show that CN cares about anime enough to air it. It will be interesting to see if anything comes of this rumer in the near future, I would totally dig a block of Bakugan, Pokemon, Naruto and a brand new anime based around a card game, it would at least be something.

[chdr]

What do you guys think of the theory that CN is pursuing anime licenses directly instead of grabbing them from third parties? On the ASMB, the rumor why Kim Manning is going to Japan isn't to scoop up licensed anime like the new FMA series, but to license various shows directly, Bakugan-style. Granted, it is a rumor based on assumptions (and we all know what "assume" does) but the theory makes sense IMO, even though I think it is being overly hopeful.That seems like an interesting theory. Rumor has it they want to do the same with Battle Spirits as well.

I guess one good thing about this is that since the network would have a stake in the profits, they would have more incentives to keep said anime on the air. Now, let's just hope they decide to license some good anime.

[creativerealms]

Dude, anything could get better ratings compared to CN in 2007 (except Saturdays). That's really not saying much.

Now, if we want to compare it to... let's say, 2002 or 2003, then I think they might have a little trouble.

You mean like when a TDI episode got the highest hatings for Cartoon Network since the Powerpuff Girls Episode Criss Cross Crisis? Something huge like that which shows the improved ratings compared to the "best" time of Cartoon network?

[Jave]

Well, what I do understand is that a huge increase in viewership also equals lots of advertising dollars for a network which increases revenue. Companies will pay big bucks to air commercials durinng highly rated shows on networks which equal more money for the network airing these shows, and if there is a big increase of 24% or whatever the figure is then companies will see that as an oppertunity to get more people to see their ad's so they go to the networks to buy advertising time. An increase is an increase, and obviously ratings will rise when there is a 24% viewer increase over the previous years numbers.Yes, but don't go around saying "millions and millions of dollars" when an increase in ratings for such a short period could pretty much mean nothing. It may take YEARS for a network to recover from bad ratings and for them to actually see any revenue from advertising, so don't throw numbers if you have no idea what you're talking about.

And as it has been pointed out, CN's 2007 ratings were some of its worst, so an increase in 24% isn't really saying much.

[Mickialla]

What do you guys think of the theory that CN is pursuing anime licenses directly instead of grabbing them from third parties? On the ASMB, the rumor why Kim Manning is going to Japan isn't to scoop up licensed anime like the new FMA series, but to license various shows directly, Bakugan-style. Granted, it is a rumor based on assumptions (and we all know what "assume" does) but the theory makes sense IMO, even though I think it is being overly hopeful.
Well that would certainly explain the long absence of anime and would make some people hush up about this hatred stuff, but it does seem somewhat farfetched. If it is true, then I hope that we get more than just a couple more card game shows. We haven't had a more mature anime in the vein of Rurouni Kenshin in a while.
Given Kim Manning's track record, I doubt anything will come out of this trip. Sure, they may license some short piece of crap no one cares about, but even that's a stretch.
Who's Kim Manning?

[chdr]

Who's Kim Manning?Kim Manning handles acquisitions at Adult Swim. She basically picks what anime airs on AS.

[Mickialla]

Kim Manning handles acquisitions at Adult Swim. She basically picks what anime airs on AS.

So how would her visiting Japan affect CN proper at all?

[macattack]

So how would her visiting Japan affect CN proper at all?

Remember who runs AS?

[chdr]

So how would her visiting Japan affect CN proper at all?Not really. The anime she picks from there would go to AS only.

[macattack]

Not really. The anime she picks from there would go to AS only.

The theory is that she is not only representing AS but is pulling double duty for CN by going on the trip. The ASMB poster who says that CN is going after Battle Spirits is suggesting Kim Manning is working for CN's interests too, not just AS'.

[chdr]

The theory is that she is not only representing AS but is pulling double duty for CN by going on the trip. The ASMB poster who says that CN is going after Battle Spirits is suggesting Kim Manning is working for CN's interests too, not just AS'.Hmm, haven't heard that before. Kim better pick something good. *hopesforsouleater*

[Mickialla]

Soul Eater looks good, but for some reason it reminds me of that show Rave Master that Cartoon Network aired back in '05 or '06.

Does anyone know if Cartoon Network still has the rights to KIBA?? It seems like the perfect anime for them to air. It has toy potential, it's new so there's no "old regime" argument there, it's already dubbed, and they've stated tons of times that they're aiming for boys nowadays so they're going to be incorporating more action. KIBA is right up their alley.

As for Kim Manning going to represent both Cartoon Network and [as] it's possible I suppose, but it still seems farfetched.

[chdr]

Does anyone know if Cartoon Network still has the rights to KIBA?? It seems like the perfect anime for them to air. It has toy potential, it's new so there's no "old regime" argument there, it's already dubbed, and they've stated tons of times that they're aiming for boys nowadays so they're going to be incorporating more action. KIBA is right up their alley.
CN forfeited the rights to Kiba. The entire series is up for free on ADV's video streaming player.

[Mickialla]

CN forfeited the rights to Kiba. The entire series is up for free on ADV's video streaming player.

:eek:

Stupid, stupid mistake. It kind of makes me feel like you guys that say Cartoon Network hates anime are right...kind of, but not really.

[chdr]

:eek:

Stupid, stupid mistake. It kind of makes me feel like you guys that say Cartoon Network hates anime are right...kind of, but not really.I doubt they would have put it on air regardless, seeing as how MAR and PoT bombed on Toonami.

[macattack]

I doubt they would have put it on air regardless, seeing as how MAR and PoT bombed on Toonami.

I don't know, KIBA looked like it had an audience. Helped that the edits were Naruto-level and there were ZERO timecuts, even the EDs were completely intact (the 2nd ED did appear, if only for a week). I think CN dropped the ball with this one. I am dead certain Upper Deck is not happy with what happened to KIBA. Toonami Jetstream was overall doing quite well, rivaling and even beating AS Video in streams, and AS is completely uncut so that's saying a lot about how strong TJ was.

[J!!!]

I doubt they would have put it on air regardless, seeing as how MAR and PoT bombed on Toonami.

But they showed them out of order and at very late timeslots so.......

[macattack]

But they showed them out of order and at very late timeslots so.......

Yeah. MAR and PoT didn't have much of a chance. They DID eventually start showing them both in order but neither one lasted very long.

[Ian Hatfield]

Every time I think about both shows, I just shake my head. Such an incredibly wasted opportunity to get some fresh content into the mix.

[macattack]

Every time I think about both shows, I just shake my head. Such an incredibly wasted opportunity to get some fresh content into the mix.

I don't know who made the decision to air those two shows out of order, but that was truly an idiotic decision that cost both of those shows a chance to gain an audience.

[macattack]

All right, I gave Shangri-La a viewing and my God, that show is beautiful. Moribito-level, maybe even beyond that. Plot and characters are merely decent but you are immersed in the pure quality that GONZO put into it. This deserves to be on US TV. Period. If CN aired this ratings would spike just because people want to look at how beautiful and smooth it is. If CN picked this up I'd even be willing to forgive the live-action dramas (live-action reality, on the other hand . . .).

This show would just rot on AS. Shangri-La deserves a Friday night slot backing up Clone Wars.

[Mickialla]

All right, I gave Shangri-La a viewing and my God, that show is beautiful. Moribito-level, maybe even beyond that. Plot and characters are merely decent but you are immersed in the pure quality that GONZO put into it. This deserves to be on US TV. Period. If CN aired this ratings would spike just because people want to look at how beautiful and smooth it is. If CN picked this up I'd even be willing to forgive the live-action dramas (live-action reality, on the other hand . . .).

This show would just rot on AS. Shangri-La deserves a Friday night slot backing up Clone Wars.

This does look pretty good and it looks like the kind of show that Cn could benefit from not only in ratings, but in merchandise.

One show I think CN really should've picked up was Gurren Lagann. It was the perfect shonen to pick up. Shows like Gurren Lagann gained so much popularity on CN. Why they didn't pick it up I'll never know.

[J!!!]

This does look pretty good and it looks like the kind of show that Cn could benefit from not only in ratings, but in merchandise.

One show I think CN really should've picked up was Gurren Lagann. It was the perfect shonen to pick up. Shows like Gurren Lagann gained so much popularity on CN. Why they didn't pick it up I'll never know.

I wanted Gurren to go to CN too but with the amounts of Fan service in the show moms would be froming lines to complain about content

[Racattack!Force]

I don't know who made the decision to air those two shows out of order, but that was truly an idiotic decision that cost both of those shows a chance to gain an audience.Yeah. I tried watching those shows on the network, but then me and my brother just gave up and watched it on Jetstream instead. The way they aired it was so confusing...

[Mickialla]

I wanted Gurren to go to CN too but with the amounts of Fan service in the show moms would be froming lines to complain about content

Well, Cartoon Network has edited most of it's anime before. Tenchi, Rurouni Kenshin, Yu Yu Hakusho, and DBZ were all edited to an extent, and I think Naruto was edited too, but I didn't watch Naruto so I wouldn't know. Gurren Lagann didn't have that much inappropriate content that Cartoon Network hasn't already seen in an anime IMO.

[Master Moron]

All this evidence is circumstanial at best, unfounded hearsay at worst.

In a legal case, something has to proven beyond a reasonable doubt for a guilty verdict to be rendered, can anyone prove this beyond a resonable doubt?

Actually, beyond a reasonable doubt is only the standard in criminal trials. In civil trials you just need a preponderance of the evidence. Besides, you can still prove a case with circumstantial evidence. You're right that it would be hearsay since no one from Cartoon Network is actually testifying but honestly I'm not sure what this has to do with anything. Cartoon Network isn't on trial and if they were, then we would be able to go through discovery and discover whether they hate anime or not. Wouldn't it be awesome if we could depose all of the Cartoon Network execs and find out if they really hate anime?

We don't know the reason.... yet. It could be something as simple as dubbing, or behind the scenes paperwork or a number of other things. Pokemon has been doing pretty good with ratings from what I read and I don't see some evil exec sitting at a desk with a sinister smile on his facing saying, "Oh boy, I can't wait to stop these highly rated premiers of Pokemon and risk replacing it with something that may not get better ratings, oh boy, where do I sign!!!", see what I am saying? And if that is what is happening then someone needs to fire him because that makes no sense what so ever, and the goal for a network is to pull in ratings regardless of personal taste.

Yeah, because high ratings prevented Naruto from being taken off the air...oh, wait...

Another thing to keep in mind is that Cartoon Network is a business that worries about money. Even if the executives did hate anime, they wouldn't get rid of it if it was getting good ratings just because they hated it. If you own a candy shop and you personally don't like lollipops, you're not going to stop selling lollipops because kids love them. The executives' personal interests won't effect the network's programming because they care first and foremost about money. Then again, some of the execs currently running the network probably don't like cartoons in general, so it can be argued that that's why there's so much live-action coming soon. But that's just speculation. But Cartoon Network being a business who cares about money before its personal interests, I'm pretty sure that's a fact.

Not this argument again...as I've said countless times before, executives are people, too. Remember when Dawn Ostroff took WWE Smackdown off of the CW even though it was the highest rated show on the network for her own personal reasons?

[Light Lucario]

I don't know who made the decision to air those two shows out of order, but that was truly an idiotic decision that cost both of those shows a chance to gain an audience.

I agree that airing those shows out of order really was a bad decision. It was just so confusing how they both started off at episode one and then the next week they had skipped at least five episodes, probably more than that. That just confused me. I even checked later to see if I had missed some airing during the week. It was too bad that they did that since I thought that they were interesting shows and I could have gotten more into them, or at least with MAR.

[Mickialla]

Not this argument again...as I've said countless times before, executives are people, too. Remember when Dawn Ostroff took WWE Smackdown off of the CW even though it was the highest rated show on the network for her own personal reasons?

You're right, executives are people too. And people care about money, so much that they're willing to hold back their personal interests to get more. People also like to keep their jobs. So by taking off a highly rated show just because they didn't like it, they're putting their jobs in jeopardy.

[macattack]

Well, Cartoon Network has edited most of it's anime before. Tenchi, Rurouni Kenshin, Yu Yu Hakusho, and DBZ were all edited to an extent, and I think Naruto was edited too, but I didn't watch Naruto so I wouldn't know. Gurren Lagann didn't have that much inappropriate content that Cartoon Network hasn't already seen in an anime IMO.

Naruto was indeed edited, but Viz handled the editing, not CN or Williams Street. The final Williams Street editing job was Gundam SEED (or DICE, maybe). FUNimation edited Yuyu Hakusho, the Dragonball franchises, and One Piece (when they got it). Tenchi, Rurouni Kenshin, and every Bandai show not named IGPX was edited by Williams Street.

In later Naruto filler episodes, though, there were signs of Techwood touchups (proven because they are far sloppier than a WS edit) such as an awkward bathing suit and "crap" being muted.

Anyway, I think that if CN is going to go with theme nights they should make Tuesday anime night. What do you guys think? All the other nights seem to be developing themes already other than Tuesday.

[Mickialla]

Anyway, I think that if CN is going to go with theme nights they should make Tuesday anime night. What do you guys think? All the other nights seem to be developing themes already other than Tuesday.

If it were the only way we could get more anime, than I'd definitely take it, even though I dislike the whole "different night different theme" approach.

[Master Moron]

You're right, executives are people too. And people care about money, so much that they're willing to hold back their personal interests to get more.

Except when they're not. I could give more examples of executives ignoring ratings due to their personal preferences, but considering you seem to be ignoring the examples I give, I'm not sure I should bother. The point is, it happens whether you're willing to admit it or not.

People also like to keep their jobs. So by taking off a highly rated show just because they didn't like it, they're putting their jobs in jeopardy.

Oh, please. Ben Silverman has driven NBC into the ground yet he still has a job. Being a TV executive hardly has anything to do with one's intelligence or talent. You can make incredibly stupid decisions as a TV executive and still retain your position.

You know, since everyone's been saying that Cartoon Network has dropped anime solely because of the ratings, I thought I would go ahead and look at the ratings for this same time period last year and see how the numbers compare:

Weekly Top Ten Basic Cable Ad Supported networks, Total Day and Primetime Rankings among K2-11 (000) 3/17-3/23/08 :
Total Day (000) Primetime (000)
NICK°: 1247 DSNY*: 1361
DSNY*: 794 CARTOON: 631
CARTOON: 560 NAN**: 650
NAN**: 434 NOGGIN: 221
ADSM**: 180 TOON DIS: 144
NOGGIN: 201 DISCOVERY: 87
TOON DIS.: 126 NICKTOONS: 77
DISCOVERY: 55 MTV: 68
NICKTOONS: 50 BET: 66
MTV: 43 ANIMAL PLANET: 51
Source: Disney Research from Nielsen Media Research Data Live + SD Data
*Disney Channel is not an ad supported cable network, unlike the others in this listing.
**Denotes a network that broadcasts less than 51% of minutes in a 24hr day.
°Nickelodeon Total Day 6a-11p

Weekly Top Ten Basic Cable Ad Supported networks, Total Day and Primetime Rankings among K6-11 (000) 3/17-3/23/08 :
Total Day (000) Primetime (000)
NICK°: 675 DSNY*: 1018
DSNY*: 524 CARTOON: 415
CARTOON: 350 NAN**: 515
NAN**: 346 DISCOVERY: 64
ADSM**: 123 TOON DIS: 62
TOON DIS.: 70 BET: 46
NOGGIN: 44 MTV: 45
DISCOVERY: 41 NOGGIN: 42
NICKTOONS: 30 NICKTOONS: 41
MTV: 30 ESPN: 34
COMEDY: 34
Source: Disney Research from Nielsen Media Research Data Live + SD Data
*Disney Channel is not an ad supported cable network, unlike the others in this listing.
**Denotes a network that broadcasts less than 51% of minutes in a 24hr day.
°Nickelodeon Total Day 6a-11p

Weekly Top Ten Basic Cable Ad Supported Networks, Total Day and Primetime Rankings among Tweens 9-14 (000) 3/17-3/23/08 :
Total Day (000) Primetime (000)
NAN**: 517 DSNY*: 814
NICK°: 512 NAN**: 651
DSNY*: 424 CARTOON: 343
CARTOON: 272 MTV: 122
ADSM**: 179 BET: 93
MTV: 85 COMEDY: 86
DISCOVERY: 55 DISCOVERY: 79
BET: 51 THE N: 45
TOON DIS: 45 ESPN: 37
COMEDY: 38 ANIMAL PLANET: 36
Source: Disney Research from Nielsen Media Research Data Live + SD Data
*Disney Channel is not an ad supported cable network, unlike the others in this listing.
**Denotes a network that broadcasts less than 51% of minutes in a 24hr day.
°Nickelodeon Total Day 6a-11p

Live + Same Day Ratings Kids Cable Network Averages (000) for Saturday, March 22, 2008, 6am-11pm, ranked by K2-11:
NICKELODEON: K2-11 1400; K6-11 949; TWEENS 9-14 780
DISNEY CHANNEL: K2-11 999; K6-11 617; TWEENS 9-14 494
CARTOON NETWORK: K2-11 586; K6-11 391; TWEENS 9-14 313
TOON DISNEY: K2-11 185; K6-11 96; TWEENS 9-14 63
Source: MTVN Research from Nielsen Media Research Data

Live + Same Day Ratings Kids Cable Network Averages (000) for Sunday, March 23, 2008, 6am-11pm, ranked by K2-11:
NICKELODEON: K2-11 1149; K6-11 815; TWEENS 9-14 713
DISNEY CHANNEL: K2-11 867; K6-11 572; TWEENS 9-14 412
CARTOON NETWORK: K2-11 450; K6-11 288; TWEENS 9-14 226
TOON DISNEY: K2-11 131; K6-11 70; TWEENS 9-14 39
Source: MTVN Research from Nielsen Media Research Data

Live + Same Day Ratings Kids Cable Network Averages (000) for Monday, March 24, 2008, 6am-11pm, ranked by K2-11:
NICKELODEON: K2-11 1284; K6-11 659; TWEENS 9-14 467
DISNEY CHANNEL: K2-11 979; K6-11 669; TWEENS 9-14 463
CARTOON NETWORK: K2-11 652; K6-11 446; TWEENS 9-14 317
TOON DISNEY: K2-11 159; K6-11 84; TWEENS 9-14 57



As you can see, the George Lopez marathon really helped out Nick at Nite. Not just with adults, which it did very well with, but also kids.

Also, CN did fine on Saturday, average on Sunday and surprisingly very well on Monday. I guess the Beasts Unleashed seems to be doing well for them.


Now, compare it to last week's ratings:

Week of 3/16-3/22:

Household Viewers:

Total Day: 788,000(#7 for cable)
Primetime: 1,064,000(#8 for cable)

Households:

Total Day: 832,000(#8 for cable)
Primetime: 1,108,000(#7 for cable)

Total Day Viewers:

Total Day: 936,000(#8 for cable)
Primetime: 1,209,000(#11 for cable)



2-11: 507,000(Total Day; #3 for cable); 716,000(Primetime; #2 for cable)

6-11: 325,000(Total Day; #3 for cable); 509,000(Primetime; #2 for cable)

9-14: 220,000(Total Day; #4 for cable); 361,000(Primetime; #3 for cable)


Again it was down a week ago.

Now, if I'm reading this right, the ratings in all three age groups were higher last year than they are now.

[Sketch]

Naruto was indeed edited, but Viz handled the editing, not CN or Williams Street. The final Williams Street editing job was Gundam SEED (or DICE, maybe). FUNimation edited Yuyu Hakusho, the Dragonball franchises, and One Piece (when they got it). Tenchi, Rurouni Kenshin, and every Bandai show not named IGPX was edited by Williams Street.

In later Naruto filler episodes, though, there were signs of Techwood touchups (proven because they are far sloppier than a WS edit) such as an awkward bathing suit and "crap" being muted.

Anyway, I think that if CN is going to go with theme nights they should make Tuesday anime night. What do you guys think? All the other nights seem to be developing themes already other than Tuesday.

Toonami Tuesday still has a nice ring to it. :anime:

Not that Toonami has a chance of coming back but I like aliteration in names.

[macattack]

Now, if I'm reading this right, the ratings in all three age groups were higher last year than they are now.

The way I see it, CN is having many great single days but no consistency, in other words, the successful "special" days and premieres are doing incredible and are breaking records but the rest of the network is lagging.

Toonami Tuesday still has a nice ring to it. :anime:

Not that Toonami has a chance of coming back but I like aliteration in names.

So do I. Not that I believe Toonami's coming back either but it would certainly be memorable. Anime on Tuesdays, I think, would work well and be just as distinctive as Thursdays and Fridays. Wednesdays and Saturdays are going to be live-action nights, so might as well secure Tuesdays for the best of foreign animation (there's some good stuff coming from Europe too, CN should really take a look at Huntik for instance).

IMO, the more I look at the spring 2009 lineup, the more I'm impressed by it. Maybe it's just the right alignment of studios, directors, animation studios, VAs, and musicians, but the resulting slate is just magnificent judging from what I've viewed. Yeah, there's tripe, but the majority of it is quite good and definitely worthy of pickups.

[Mickialla]

You know, since everyone's been saying that Cartoon Network has dropped anime solely because of the ratings, I thought I would go ahead and look at the ratings for this same time period last year and see how the numbers compare:


No one is saying it's based solely on ratings. It could be a number of different things which have already been stated a numerous amount of times. All I'm saying is that it comes down to something business related and not a personal interest of the execs. You're free to believe otherwise, but please, don't twist other people's words around to make your idea sound more believable.

[TripleS]

Yeah, because high ratings prevented Naruto from being taken off the air...oh, wait...



Not this argument again...as I've said countless times before, executives are people, too. Remember when Dawn Ostroff took WWE Smackdown off of the CW even though it was the highest rated show on the network for her own personal reasons?
Ah, MasterMoron, your logic is impossible to deny~

You're right, executives are people too. And people care about money, so much that they're willing to hold back their personal interests to get more.
But you can't say that it's ALWAYS the case. Not everyone is obsessed with money, some people are incredibly religious or very moral-based and may take that with their actions careless of the consequences.

[Yusuke Urameshi]

Ah, MasterMoron, your logic is impossible to deny~




MasterMorons logic is flawless.


anyhow..I think that if Cn did bring back anime, it should be something that would open up more oppurtunitys to more anime, not just bring back filler naruto, cause that wont do any good, they should go for more of the newer anime, IE shippuden, Dragonball kai, etc.

[Mickialla]

But you can't say that it's ALWAYS the case. Not everyone is obsessed with money, some people are incredibly religious or very moral-based and may take that with their actions careless of the consequences.


It's not a matter of greed, it's the way business works. Executives don't act professionally just to get money for themselves. They do it for the benefit of their entire company. Which is another thing because if they make a stupid decision based only on their personal interest and ratings drop, the whole company goes down, not just them. So there's more than enough pressure on executives to perform their job with some personal interests excluded. But you are right in the sense that executives don't have to be robots who don't have any tastes one way or the other. But they have to have reason to back up their tastes. If an executive who happens to like anime says "I suggest we get this anime, research shows it would do well with our audience", it's a perfect example of an executive using their own personal interests but having a reasonable explanation behind their action as well. But ff an executive says "I hate anime and it's not doing good anyway", anyone can easily look at the ratings of anime and prove them wrong. So yeah, I'll admit that executives can incorporate their own personal interest into their actions, but in this particular case, it's unlikely.

[macattack]

Remember Bonnie Hammer, and Dawn Ostroff please, Mickialla. And Bonnie actually got promoted to head of all NBC/Universal cable networks after her mismanagement at Sci fi and got the right to put her apprentice in network idiocy (Dave Howe) in charge of Sci fi.

However, after Hammer took over USA Network, that particular network climbed to sky-high heights so she may actually have some skill (though she made sure The 4400 and The Dead Zone got drummed out of the network ASAP).

[Mickialla]

Remember Bonnie Hammer, and Dawn Ostroff please, Mickialla. And Bonnie actually got promoted to head of all NBC/Universal cable networks after her mismanagement at Sci fi and got the right to put her apprentice in network idiocy (Dave Howe) in charge of Sci fi.

However, after Hammer took over USA Network, that particular network climbed to sky-high heights so she may actually have some skill (though she made sure The 4400 and The Dead Zone got drummed out of the network ASAP).

I suppose you're right. While executives should act professional and leave personal interest out of their job unless it benefits their company/network, they probably don't always do so. I guess it honestly doesn't matter. We can speculate all we want, but with a matter like this, we'll never come up with a real answer.

[Raidon Makoto]

Executives should actually be interested in the medium for which the channel is dedicated to. For example, CN executives should really like animation. SciFi executives should really like Science Fiction... Etc.

[soundmonkey44]

Executives should actually be interested in the medium for which the channel is dedicated to. For example, CN executives should really like animation. SciFi executives should really like Science Fiction... Etc.

ITs true they should, but that would make too much sense & everybody knows the last thing executives want our for Networks to make sense! LULZ!:p :sweat: :evil:

[Mickialla]

Executives should actually be interested in the medium for which the channel is dedicated to. For example, CN executives should really like animation. SciFi executives should really like Science Fiction... Etc.

That's what they had when people like Linda Simensky and Mike Lazzo were a part of the network. And that's when the network had its best days. I guess no one learned from that though. The thing is no one is trained at a college to be specifically a "TV animation executive". There's no field for that. They're trained mostly to be general business executives, and sadly few of them happen to have an interest in animation too.

[Mugen]

However, after Hammer took over USA Network, that particular network climbed to sky-high heights so she may actually have some skill (though she made sure The 4400 and The Dead Zone got drummed out of the network ASAP).

I think its a case where she running a network she has interest in. Its clear she has no interest in science fiction, hence why the Sci Fi Channel went down when she was there. Since USA Network is a more general channel, she can make decisions that don't go against what the network stands for.

[Antiyonder]

Executives should actually be interested in the medium for which the channel is dedicated to. For example, CN executives should really like animation. SciFi executives should really like Science Fiction... Etc.

Not everyone can get their dream job and have to settle for jobs which clash with their interests. In any case it is possible to exercise professionalisim.

Look at Marc Summers. He has a disorder which prompts him to be a neat freak, yet he successfully hosted the messy show known as Double Dare.

[macattack]

I think its a case where she running a network she has interest in. Its clear she has no interest in science fiction, hence why the Sci Fi Channel went down when she was there. Since USA Network is a more general channel, she can make decisions that don't go against what the network stands for.

Good point. When she took over she phased out what sci-fi material USA had but on the other hand under her guidance USA has pumped out some quality material that's garnered high ratings. So she was the right person for USA but the wrong person for Sci fi.

So there's a correlation with the rumors/theories that CN's executives are biased against anime. If the executives are uncomfortable with anime with whatever reason they're not going to treat it properly. It's not unfathomable. Not everyone can work out of their comfort zones.

Besides, just by looking at the executives surrounding David Stern, none of them look like "anime" people to me the same way Mike Lazzo or Sean Akins do.

[J!!!]

Executives should actually be interested in the medium for which the channel is dedicated to. For example, CN executives should really like animation. SciFi executives should really like Science Fiction... Etc.

I think most of them are interested in one thing...... money

[Fool's Gil]

I personally don't know about the inner workings of the CN execs, but I know when the problem started: When Toonami was pushed to Saturdays. That's when I think things started going down. Saturdays to me is the worst day to show anything animated-especially anime- so when ratings or whatever were low, the execs were free to drop Blue Dragon, Mar, the Prince, etc with the "Well, we tried." response. Sure, they may not have advertised well, but in the end, does that really matter? I believe with the right timeslot and day, you rarely need an ad to say: "New Naruto!" except to display on other kid channels or whatnot.

I think the best thing to be done is take the "failed" animes, and combine them to the YAH Lineup, and add the fan favorites Megas and Jack at the beginning and end of the timeslot, and I suspect things would look better. I know I'd watch.

[warnerbroman]

I think the best thing to be done is take the "failed" animes, and combine them to the YAH Lineup, and add the fan favorites Megas and Jack at the beginning and end of the timeslot, and I suspect things would look better. I know I'd watch.that's called "Toonami"

[Fool's Gil]

that's called "Toonami"

:) If the shoe fits.:)

[Antiyonder]

I think most of them are interested in one thing...... money

True, but sometimes the ones who do a better job at making money are the ones who don't obsess over it.

[Mickialla]

I personally don't know about the inner workings of the CN execs, but I know when the problem started: When Toonami was pushed to Saturdays. That's when I think things started going down. Saturdays to me is the worst day to show anything animated-especially anime- so when ratings or whatever were low, the execs were free to drop Blue Dragon, Mar, the Prince, etc with the "Well, we tried." response. Sure, they may not have advertised well, but in the end, does that really matter? I believe with the right timeslot and day, you rarely need an ad to say: "New Naruto!" except to display on other kid channels or whatnot.


How is Saturdays a bad night to show premieres? Teen Titans and Justice League/JLU were both popular on Saturday nights. If any anime didn't do good on the same night, it had nothing to do with Saturday nights being bad for ratings.

[MasterofRoku]

Saturdays was a good night for Toonami, as long as it got some advertisement the shows did good. MAR & POT were screwed because of the schedule mixup and Naruto was doing greatutnil they stopped advertising it and kept it on & off it's slot.

[Fool's Gil]

How is Saturdays a bad night to show premieres? Teen Titans and Justice League/JLU were both popular on Saturday nights.

Justice League and Teen Titans were popular, sure, but they're showed often, all the time every day. They were going to get ratings no matter the day. Most animes that aren't DBZ, Naruto, and One Piece, not so much.

If any anime didn't do good on the same night, it had nothing to do with Saturday nights being bad for ratings.

What do most people do on Saturdays? Even kids go out to have fun, movies, etc. meaning less time in front of the tube, lowering ratings. That being said, if the anime, or even Toonami was shown on a different day, the rating would be different, likely higher because people would not be leaving the house. They'd be getting ready for the next day, and watching television while doing so.

Saturdays was a good night for Toonami, as long as it got some advertisement the shows did good. MAR & POT were screwed because of the schedule mixup and Naruto was doing greatutnil they stopped advertising it and kept it on & off it's slot.

I'm sure the weekday lineups were better than good, and rarely needed ads to be good.

[macattack]

I'm sure the weekday lineups were better than good, and rarely needed ads to be good.

Actually, during Toonami's top years it was on weekdays, and weekdays overall received more ads than the Saturday Toonami. It kinda helped that Toonami was airing every day for a few hours.

[macattack]

Fascinating news here (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2009-04-13/viz-to-stream-dubbed-naruto-episodes-on-joost-hulu).

This makes CN's continued streaming of Naruto curiously redundant . . .

[The Huntsman]

I found this article (http://www.seacoastonline.com/articles/20090409-LIFE-904090333) kind of interesting; there’s nothing really special about it, but it’s nice to see a different perspective on the network’s removal of “Naruto”.

[J!!!]

I found this article (http://www.seacoastonline.com/articles/20090409-LIFE-904090333) kind of interesting; there’s nothing really special about it, but it’s nice to see a different perspective on the network’s removal of “Naruto”.

But she was like everyone else who saw Naruto gone........... sad

[Racattack!Force]

But she was like everyone else who saw Naruto gone........... sa.But instead of whining like the rest of the internet, she understood why the show was removed and is moving on with her life. Of course she's sad, but everyone gets sad at something. There are more important things to cry about than the removal of your favorite show, like all the death and murder going on in the world. Heck, the fact the show stayed on for even a little while after Toonami died was suprising. :shrug:

[DeanBurrito25]

Could someone please lock this thread?
I can't imagine this discussion of how CN treats a specific animation style ending well.

[Racattack!Force]

Could someone please lock this thread?
I can't imagine this discussion of how CN treats a specific animation style ending well.Actually, it's been going on pretty smoothly so far.

[J!!!]

But instead of whining like the rest of the internet, she understood why the show was removed and is moving on with her life. Of course she's sad, but everyone gets sad at something. There are more important things to cry about than the removal of your favorite show, like all the death and murder going on in the world. Heck, the fact the show stayed on for even a little while after Toonami died was suprising. :shrug:

I didn't say that I was sad or cared about it getting removed (lost interest after Sasuke retreval because that was the last canon before shippuden) but still.

[Jave]

Could someone please lock this thread?No.

[SuperDudeX]

Wow, was it really necessary to make an entire thread about this?

Yes, I'm on the same boat of hate as the rest of you, but at least I managed to move on from CN's heartless betrayal. I still havs Sci-Fi (I refuse to name it by it's "other" name), I still have IFC, and I still have other means of getting my anime. Even though I will NEVER FORGIVE them for getting rid of Toonami for no reason whatsoever, I'll still watch Cn for what it's worth and move on.

[J!!!]

Wow, was it really necessary to make an entire thread about this?

Yes, I'm on the same boat of hate as the rest of you, but at least I managed to move on from CN's heartless betrayal. I still havs Sci-Fi (I refuse to name it by it's "other" name), I still have IFC, and I still have other means of getting my anime. Even though I will NEVER FORGIVE them for getting rid of Toonami for no reason whatsoever, I'll still watch Cn for what it's worth and move on.

...Execpt that IFC hasn't shown any anime in over 3 weeks as of yet

[SuperDudeX]

...Execpt that IFC hasn't shown any anime in over 3 weeks as of yet



Well, IDK if it's my local feed of it or not, but I have seen a couple of anime eps recently over spring break.

[soundmonkey44]

You know the sad thing is theres still so many good animes CN/AS could show, such as.......

CN
Naruto: Shippuden
The rest of One piece
SGT. Frog
DB Kai

AS
FMA: brotherhood
Soul Eater

& personally I would love to have seen either Baccano or claymore have come to the AS line up.

as for regular CN i'd say the only anime we have even the smallest chance of them acquireing would be Pretty cure since its on in canada.:sweat:

P.S. I too will never forgive CN for canning TOONAMI, but that doesn't mean i won't watch TFA or SWCW when i want to!

[J!!!]

Well, IDK if it's my local feed of it or not, but I have seen a couple of anime eps recently over spring break.

Hmm maybe because I checked all the normal anime times and I didn't see any.

[macattack]

Could someone please lock this thread?
I can't imagine this discussion of how CN treats a specific animation style ending well.

Don't provoke a fight when there hasn't been one yet.

The reason for this thread's existence is because of various threads on the CN Forum being knocked off-topic and becoming unruly because of the topic this thread covers. And, in a way, it's been theraputic for the forum, everything's gotten more civilized since then.

As for the article The Huntsman linked to, it's kinda fascinating to read something from a parent's perspective. The way the article is written does further solidify my view that CN has committed a colossal mistake by cancelling Naruto.

I have no hope of Naruto returning to the air and with uncut dubbed Naruto appearing on Joost I feel the show's days on CN Video have to be numbered. I have moved on, but I am allowed to say whether something is a mistake or not.

[TripleS]

As for the article The Huntsman linked to, it's kinda fascinating to read something from a parent's perspective. The way the article is written does further solidify my view that CN has committed a colossal mistake by cancelling Naruto.

Most certainly, in fact it's a pretty unexpected opinion from a parent's point of view, but it does show that the show did bring a mother and her son together on Saturday nights.

[Raidon Makoto]

I found this article (http://www.seacoastonline.com/articles/20090409-LIFE-904090333) kind of interesting; there’s nothing really special about it, but it’s nice to see a different perspective on the network’s removal of “Naruto”.
Wow, that was pretty cool in a way that someone outside of the faithful knew and cared about TOM and Toonami, as well as Naruto.

It definitely gives me perspective on what the 'not us'es' think about Toonami & Naruto.

[DeanBurrito25]

Don't provoke a fight when there hasn't been one yet.

The reason for this thread's existence is because of various threads on the CN Forum being knocked off-topic and becoming unruly because of the topic this thread covers. And, in a way, it's been theraputic for the forum, everything's gotten more civilized since then.

I wasn't (and I'm not) trying to provoke anything, I'm just really tired of people claiming that Cartoon Network hates anime.
It's getting very old. :shrug:

[macattack]

I wasn't (and I'm not) trying to provoke anything, I'm just really tired of people claiming that Cartoon Network hates anime.
It's getting very old. :shrug:

And the reason why this thread exists is so you're not bombarded by the claims in other threads. You can ignore it if you want to, or participate if you want to.

[soundmonkey44]

To rust: that is indeed a good article, its good to know that even those that were just casual toonami/naruto fans miss both from the network, just like us TOONAMI faithful!:D

Tomacattack: Yes it is old, but with the way things our going you can't blame some for thinking this, and who knows they may be right.:sweat:

[CottonSwab]

You know the sad thing is theres still so many good animes CN/AS could show, such as.......

CN
Naruto: Shippuden
The rest of One piece
SGT. Frog
DB Kai

AS
FMA: brotherhood
Soul Eater

& personally I would love to have seen either Baccano or claymore have come to the AS line up.

as for regular CN i'd say the only anime we have even the smallest chance of them acquireing would be Pretty cure since its on in canada.:sweat:

P.S. I too will never forgive CN for canning TOONAMI, but that doesn't mean i won't watch TFA or SWCW when i want to!

Shippuden yes, but I think DBZ had it's day in the sun and isn't Kai just episodes of DBZ that are excluding filler and speeding up the story? It's still the same story they has been aired on countless networks over the years. I agree that the new FMA should air on AS and the original Naruto should finish it's run on CN, but it ain't gonna happen and in hindsight I am okay with it, I have seen it already anyhow.

[Master Moron]

Wow, was it really necessary to make an entire thread about this?

Yes, I'm on the same boat of hate as the rest of you, but at least I managed to move on from CN's heartless betrayal. I still havs Sci-Fi (I refuse to name it by it's "other" name), I still have IFC, and I still have other means of getting my anime. Even though I will NEVER FORGIVE them for getting rid of Toonami for no reason whatsoever, I'll still watch Cn for what it's worth and move on.

I don't get either of those channels. Damn you, Comcast!

I wasn't (and I'm not) trying to provoke anything, I'm just really tired of people claiming that Cartoon Network hates anime.
It's getting very old. :shrug:

It's not people talking about Cartoon Network hating anime that's getting old, it's Cartoon Network hating anime that's getting old.

[macattack]

We'll have a definitive answer to the "CN hates anime" question if Pokemon does not return to the network. It's about to go into reruns.

[soundmonkey44]

It's not people talking about Cartoon Network hating anime that's getting old, it's Cartoon Network hating anime that's getting old.


I agree with you MM CN's shunning of one of the types of animation that helped them gain there fame is somewhat dishearting, but I still don't think they HATE anime, they just wanted a new crutch thats all! I keep saying just be patient and in 2-3 years will see anime increase on the network, see thats whats wrong with people these days, they want instant gratification! man whatever happened to "GOOD THINGS COME TO THOSE WHO WAIT!"

have faith in the anime force MM! HAVE FAITH!!! LULZ!:p

[chdr]

We'll have a definitive answer to the "CN hates anime" question if Pokemon does not return to the network. It's about to go into reruns.Again, not confirmed.

[warnerbroman]

Again, not confirmed.yet.

[Daxdiv]

We'll have a definitive answer to the "CN hates anime" question if Pokemon does not return to the network. It's about to go into reruns.

Not neccessarily.

After all from what I notice CN only gets 52 episodes from PUSA, and it looks like this time, 0CN, did the math. They didn't get one episode in DP, and for Battle Frontier, I think they only got a mid to high 40 episode count, I have to double check that, I'm just going off the top of my head. We're just reaching our limit for the season as of this writing we are 21 episodes behind the Japanese as of the recent airings. There was a two month gap here in the US after the end of DP and the beginning of BD, so unless there is a more noticable gap, and it's taken off the block entirely I'm not worrying.

[J!!!]

We'll have a definitive answer to the "CN hates anime" question if Pokemon does not return to the network. It's about to go into reruns.
Meh if is goes away it will still have a chance on American airwaves...... PUSA is one of Disney XD's sponsors so if it goes away it will go there.

[Jiya]

CN always treated anime well, it was only in 07 - 08 where it started to trim it down on the anime and now people are saying they hate anime. Hey, if CN won't air it, I can always google the animes I want to watch or youtube them.

[Raidon Makoto]

We'll have a definitive answer to the "CN hates anime" question if Pokemon does not return to the network. It's about to go into reruns.
Didn't they say they acquired more Pokemon at the Upfronts?

[chdr]

Didn't they say they acquired more Pokemon at the Upfronts?No. But then again, they never have.

[Racattack!Force]

Didn't they say they acquired more Pokemon at the Upfronts?The Toon Zone Upfront article says that Pokemon will be one of the returning series.

[Light Lucario]

The Toon Zone Upfront article says that Pokemon will be one of the returning series.

That's what I thought and that's why I'm also confused that some people are thinking that they could get rid of Pokemon. While they haven't aired the episodes of BD like they have for the past two seasons, I'm fairly sure that they would want to have a break between the seasons. That's what most shows have and they may want PUSA to have more episodes ready for them to air. We don't know how many episodes they have already dubbed since they don't really announce what they have done and we don't know when they work on the episodes either.

So unless they mention not having new episodes of Pokemon any time this year, which I highly doubt, I'm not going to worry over it. Besides, I don't think that they wouldn't air the new season since it was announced as a returning series in the CN Upfront.

[Mickialla]

Well, Pokemon's been getting consistently good ratings for many months now. I'd be really surprised if Cartoon Network just got rid of it. It's been airing new episodes for a while now, a break should be warranted (though it leaves the SatAM block highly lacking besides TFA). And plus, it's return was mentioned at the Upfront, like others have said.

[Raidon Makoto]

Well, Pokemon's been getting consistently good ratings for many months now. I'd be really surprised if Cartoon Network just got rid of it. It's been airing new episodes for a while now, a break should be warranted (though it leaves the SatAM block highly lacking besides TFA). And plus, it's return was mentioned at the Upfront, like others have said.
Naruto was getting consistently good ratings too, so you can't really use that as a reason to believe Pokemon is safe because of that.

I do think Pokemon is safe, though I think its because of PUSA's big bags of dirty money as opposed to the ratings.

[chdr]

Naruto was getting consistently good ratings too, so you can't really use that as a reason to believe Pokemon is safe because of that.

I do think Pokemon is safe, though I think its because of PUSA's big bags of dirty money as opposed to the ratings.I doubt PUSA is bribing CN to air Pokemon. I do think that PUSA is maintaining a healthy relationship with CN by paying them to show advertisements for Pokemon, though.

[Mickialla]

Naruto was getting consistently good ratings too, so you can't really use that as a reason to believe Pokemon is safe because of that.

I do think Pokemon is safe, though I think its because of PUSA's big bags of dirty money as opposed to the ratings.

Naruto did good sometimes, but I'm not sure if it got the same good ratings week after week after Toonami ended. Did it?

[Light Lucario]

Naruto was getting consistently good ratings too, so you can't really use that as a reason to believe Pokemon is safe because of that.

I do think Pokemon is safe, though I think its because of PUSA's big bags of dirty money as opposed to the ratings.

While you do have a good point about Naruto's good ratings, I think that there are some differences between how Naruto and Pokemon have been treated by CN. Of course, CN did mess around with its preimer slot for quite a few months, which does seem odd to me since it was getting good ratings, but CN rarely interupts Pokemon's timeslot. They also seem fine with giving the show a repeat slot for the current season and they also play some of the movies every now and then.

I think that their current treatment of Pokemon makes me feel that it is safe. I also agree with chdr that PUSA probably isn't bribing CN to air Pokemon. I think that it's more likely that CN just gets some of the revenues from the Pokemon ads on their channel or something like that. I don't think that there is any evidence that PUSA is paying CN to air Pokemon, but it's more like a speculated idea.

[Racattack!Force]

Naruto was getting consistently good ratings too, so you can't really use that as a reason to believe Pokemon is safe because of that.The show didn't really consistently break into the millions each week. :shrug:

[Ian Hatfield]

The show didn't really consistently break into the millions each week. :shrug:
Yes it did. Most weeks that is.:shrug:

[J!!!]

The show didn't really consistently break into the millions each week. :shrug:

Here's some irony for ya when they showed Naruto weekly the ratings were lower than when they started airing it randomly.

[Master Moron]

Naruto did good sometimes, but I'm not sure if it got the same good ratings week after week after Toonami ended. Did it?

Well, it wasn't on week after week, since they constantly preempted it with movies, so that would be impossible.

The show didn't really consistently break into the millions each week. :shrug:

As said above, it didn't air each week, so it couldn't have gotten millions of viewers each week. We only know the ratings it got when they were reported, and they were in the millions. Regardless of how consistent it was, that's very good for a series that's never advertised and doesn't air consistently.

Here's some irony for ya when they showed Naruto weekly the ratings were lower than when they started airing it randomly.

What? Where'd you hear that?

[Jave]

Now I want Disney XD to pick up Naruto Shippuden, put it up against whatever live-action CN airs, and trump CN in the ratings with it.

THE ULTIMATE IRONY

[CottonSwab]

Now I want Disney XD to pick up Naruto Shippuden, put it up against whatever live-action CN airs, and trump CN in the ratings with it.

THE ULTIMATE IRONY

If either Disney XD or Nicktoons or their parent stations picked Shippuden or any other current anime out there that CN has either passed on or ignored and then they buried CN deep in their own grave with ratings, that may very well be a good thing for CN in the long run because then they would realize the error of their ways.......maybe. Does anyone think something like this could indeed happen....?

[macattack]

Now I want Disney XD to pick up Naruto Shippuden, put it up against whatever live-action CN airs, and trump CN in the ratings with it.

THE ULTIMATE IRONY

Oh my God, Jave. I can't . . . . believe it!

*cue the "AAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHH"s from the board members*

[warnerbroman]

If either Disney XD or Nicktoons or their parent stations picked Shippuden or any other current anime out there that CN has either passed on or ignored and then they buried CN deep in their own grave with ratings, that may very well be a good thing for CN in the long run because then they would realize the error of their ways.......maybe. Does anyone think something like this could indeed happen....?are thos channels aire the card commercials?

[CottonSwab]

are thos channels aire the card commercials?

I don't watch enough Disney XD to have seen the commercials for the card games but I have seen the commercials for the Naruto and Yugioh card games on Nicktoons, but I have seen them on CN too so I don't think it means anything.

[J!!!]

What? Where'd you hear that?
Wikipedia so it's probably not true and BTW as I keep saying and checking the XD ratings threads Pokemon is one of there sponsors so if CN drops it they'll proably pick it up.

[Light Lucario]

Now I want Disney XD to pick up Naruto Shippuden, put it up against whatever live-action CN airs, and trump CN in the ratings with it.

THE ULTIMATE IRONY

That actually would be kind of funny in a ironic way, especially since CN is willing to air a few live-action series nowadays.

Wikipedia so it's probably not true and BTW as I keep saying and checking the XD ratings threads Pokemon is one of there sponsors so if CN drops it they'll proably pick it up.

Unless Disney XD becomes available in more homes, I'm not sure how comfortable PUSA would feel having it air on it. However, I still don't think that we should worry about Pokemon since considering CN's current treatment of the series, I doubt that they're going to drop it anytime soon. Unless they constatnly put other preimers in its preimer timeslot, like what happened to Naruto, I wouldn't put any effort into worrying about Pokemon.

[Ian Hatfield]

Well, Disney has the exclusive European broadcast rights to Pokemon, so them acquiring the US rights wouldn't surprise me that much. I'd rather see that then more live-action reruns. However, I doubt Naruto will ever been seen on XD.

[macattack]

Well, Disney has the exclusive European broadcast rights to Pokemon, so them acquiring the US rights wouldn't surprise me that much. I'd rather see that then more live-action reruns. However, I doubt Naruto will ever been seen on XD.

It's theoretically possible. Naruto airs on Jetix UK, although the TV dub there is reportedly a macekere.

[Ian Hatfield]

It's theoretically possible. Naruto airs on Jetix UK, although the TV dub there is reportedly a macekere.
Actually, I think they stopped making additional edits to it during the Tsunade arc. I think.

[macattack]

Actually, I think they stopped making additional edits to it during the Tsunade arc. I think.

Interesting. I hope the show is still on the air over there.

*sigh* I think I'm going to register on the "official" CN Forum and see if there's a way I can sneak in a request to finish the final 10 Naruto episodes.

[Racattack!Force]

*sigh* I think I'm going to register on the "official" CN Forum and see if there's a way I can sneak in a request to finish the final 10 Naruto episodes.It looks like you can. I saw a post that requested that the channel shouldn't be doing any live-action projects.

[J!!!]

It looks like you can. I saw a post that requested that the channel shouldn't be doing any live-action projects.
Ya know I think the only posts they acctually don't let through are TDA spoiler ones.

[macattack]

Well, apparently the new Bakugan season has already premiered on Teletoon, so there's only a matter of time before it starts here. Teletoon didn't exactly advertise it, though. I'm sure CN will give it a blitz though to try to sell more toys.

[macattack]

Well, Pokemon got renewed and the new season will begin without a break like previously thought/feared. Bakugan:: New Vestroia will also begin in the coming month (when exactly remains unknown).

Par for the course at the moment, but I want a surprise.

[The Overlord]

Well, Pokemon got renewed and the new season will begin without a break like previously thought/feared. Bakugan:: New Vestroia will also begin in the coming month (when exactly remains unknown).

Par for the course at the moment, but I want a surprise.

But here's a question, why does CN have to show anime? NBC and Nick don't show anime, are they xenophobic?

CN has never shown cartoons from Brazil, does that make them anti Brazilian? Why does CN have to show cartoons from Japan, but not Brazil? Has anyone ever complained about the lack of Brazilian cartoons on CN?

[macattack]

But here's a question, why does CN have to show anime? NBC and Nick don't show anime, are they xenophobic?

CN has never shown cartoons from Brazil, does that make them anti Brazilian? Why does CN have to show cartoons from Japn, but not Brazil? Has anyone ever complained about the lack of Brazilian cartoons on CN?

CN doesn't have to show anime if they don't want to. It's the execs' decision. However, giving that CN has had strong ratings with some anime (DBZ, Naruto, various Toonami fare) I feel they are making a mistake by gutting the anime (especially over Naruto).

If there were good Brazilian cartoons out there yeah sure I'd consider them. But I don't know if there are good Brazilian cartoons out there, much less if any are actually being marketed here the way Japanese cartoons are. I have seen several very good Japanese cartoons coming out in the spring 2009 season and I think they deserve a US TV deal on CN because those shows would bring in ratings. You should also note I have complained multiple times about European cartoons being shut out as well.

I like good animation period. I do feel that CN's current management has something against Naruto or Viz Media at least.

[The Overlord]

CN doesn't have to show anime if they don't want to. It's the execs' decision. However, giving that CN has had strong ratings with some anime (DBZ, Naruto, various Toonami fare) I feel they are making a mistake by gutting the anime (especially over Naruto).

If there were good Brazilian cartoons out there yeah sure I'd consider them. But I don't know if there are good Brazilian cartoons out there, much less if any are actually being marketed here the way Japanese cartoons are. I have seen several very good Japanese cartoons coming out in the spring 2009 season and I think they deserve a US TV deal on CN because those shows would bring in ratings. You should also note I have complained multiple times about European cartoons being shut out as well.

I like good animation period. I do feel that CN's current management has something against Naruto or Viz Media at least.

Good ratings, maybe, maybe not, maybe today's generation of kids don't like anime as much as pervious geenrations, it does seem like old hat at this point, heck articles have shown that even the anime industry in Japan is in trouble, so its no wonder its in trouble in America, plus a lot of the shows that came over recently were pretty cliched like Blue Dragon. Perhaps anime just doesn't have the same impact with kids and otakus are an audience not worth pandering to.

[Light Lucario]

Well, Pokemon got renewed and the new season will begin without a break like previously thought/feared. Bakugan:: New Vestroia will also begin in the coming month (when exactly remains unknown).

Par for the course at the moment, but I want a surprise.

I believe that it was already announced in the CN Upfront that Pokemon was renewed for another season. Going right into the new season didn't make that statement. The new Bakugan series will also start on May 9th.

[Master Moron]

But here's a question, why does CN have to show anime? NBC and Nick don't show anime, are they xenophobic?


Of course they are. The major networks have always been xenophobic. That's why they remake foreign shows instead of airing the originals.

[The Overlord]

Of course they are. The major networks have always been xenophobic. That's why they remake foreign shows instead of airing the originals.

Well CBS is showing a Canadian show.

But that doesn't answer my question, do they have an onus show foreign shows on thier networks? Is there any evidence Death note would do big numbers on ABC?

[Fool's Gil]

The irony to the fact that CN refusing to show anime, or the idea that CN doesn't have to show anime, is the fact that the channel is called "Cartoon Network." Don't kid yourself. Naruto is a cartoon. Yugioh is a cartoon. A rose by any other name and all that. Either way, CN should be showing all cartoons, all animation. Western, Japanese, Canadian, While they're at it, CN should get some European, and Australian cartoons as well, then it will really be a network for cartoons.

[Racattack!Force]

The irony to the fact that CN refusing to show anime, or the idea that CN doesn't have to show anime, is the fact that the channel is called "Cartoon Network." Don't kid yourself. Naruto is a cartoon. Yugioh is a cartoon. A rose by any other name and all that. Either way, CN should be showing all cartoons, all animation. Western, Japanese, Canadian, While they're at it, CN should get some European, and Australian cartoons as well, then it will really be a network for cartoons.I kinda find a problem with that: how will they schedule that huge mess of animation? With all of those cartoons, would the network even see a need to create it's own anymore?

[Mickialla]

I kinda find a problem with that: how will they schedule that huge mess of animation? With all of those cartoons, would the network even see a need to create it's own anymore?

Yea, acquisitions are cool and all, but let's not just acquire acquisitions for the sake of acquiring acquisitions. How many great European/Australian cartoons are there that could do well on Cartoon Network anyways?

[Jave]

I kinda find a problem with that: how will they schedule that huge mess of animation? With all of those cartoons, would the network even see a need to create it's own anymore?

Yea, acquisitions are cool and all, but let's not just acquire acquisitions for the sake of acquiring acquisitions. How many great European/Australian cartoons are there that could do well on Cartoon Network anyways?So wait, airing stuff from various countries counts as a "mess" now? No offense, but some of you are going overboard trying to shoot down arguments.

Didn't CN air several anime, along with Code Lyoko and Totally Spies (and since some of you like to count Ed, Edd & Eddy and Atomic Betty, let's toss those in there as well) at a given time? And they still had enough space to fit in their own cartoons.

Nobody is suggesting CN should become all acquisitions, but CN should be a place with diversity enough to be able to watch things from various genres. And that is something that can only be done by looking at what other countries have to offer.

As for examples, it's beyond me why CN hasn't tried to get the new season of Space Goofs, and the new Asterix and Lucky Luke films. They already exist in English, and they're great fits for CN's current demographics.

[Mickialla]

So wait, airing stuff from various countries counts as a "mess" now? No offense, but some of you are going overboard trying to shoot down arguments.

Didn't CN air several anime, along with Code Lyoko and Totally Spies (and since some of you like to count Ed, Edd & Eddy and Atomic Betty, let's toss those in there as well) at a given time? And they still had enough space to fit in their own cartoons.

Nobody is suggesting CN should become all acquisitions, but CN should be a place with diversity enough to be able to watch things from various genres. And that is something that can only be done by looking at what other countries have to offer.

As for examples, it's beyond me why CN hasn't tried to get the new season of Space Goofs, and the new Asterix and Lucky Luke films. They already exist in English, and they're great fits for CN's current demographics.

Airing stuff from different countries doesn't count as a mess. Airing stuff from different countries just because it comes from different countries is pointless. If the show's are good, then by all means they can air. No one's suggesting that acquisitions and CN originals can't coexist in a balance on the network, since that has and is how the schedule currently is. Besides Totally Spies!, Code Lyoko, Skunk Fu! and Robotboy, I don't know too many European cartoons, and I don't know any from Australia, or Brazil for that matter. If there are cartoons form any of the latter two nations that are a good fit, then there's no reason Cartoon Network shouldn't air them, but the way they're currently acquiring shows from Canada (which is most likely based on TDI's success) is a bit "messy" IMO.

[Jave]

Airing stuff from different countries doesn't count as a mess. Airing stuff from different countries just because it comes from different countries is pointless. If the show's are good, then by all means they can air. No one's suggesting that acquisitions and CN originals can't coexist in a balance on the network, since that has and is how the schedule currently is. Besides Totally Spies!, Code Lyoko, Skunk Fu! and Robotboy, I don't know too many European cartoons, and I don't know any from Australia, or Brazil for that matter. If there are cartoons form any of the latter two nations that are a good fit, then there's no reason Cartoon Network shouldn't air them, but the way they're currently acquiring shows from Canada (which is most likely based on TDI's success) is a bit "messy" IMO.Well, I'll take a wild guess and say that you don't know any other animation from those places because they aren't available in the U.S. I mean, all the cartoons I mentioned in my previous post I know of because they're available here.

But how is the Canadian cartoons acquisitions "messy". One show turned out to be quite a hit, so they picked a few other similar shows. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

BTW, there was a Brazilian cartoon that aired in CN Latin America, but it was a series of five-minute shorts that aired as filler between shows. The name escapes at me right now.

[chdr]

BTW, there was a Brazilian cartoon that aired in CN Latin America, but it was a series of five-minute shorts that aired as filler between shows. The name escapes at me right now.Was it "Pixcodelics" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixcodelics)?

[Jave]

Was it "Pixcodelics" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixcodelics)?Yup, that's the one.

[Mickialla]

Well, I'll take a wild guess and say that you don't know any other animation from those places because they aren't available in the U.S. I mean, all the cartoons I mentioned in my previous post I know of because they're available here.

But how is the Canadian cartoons acquisitions "messy". One show turned out to be quite a hit, so they picked a few other similar shows. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

BTW, there was a Brazilian cartoon that aired in CN Latin America, but it was a series of five-minute shorts that aired as filler between shows. The name escapes at me right now.

Maybe messy was the wrong word to use. I just think that Cartoon Network shouldn't just acquire as many foreign shows as they can. They should have a decent number and have variety, but I think there is a limit. Right now I think there's a decent number of acquisitions on the network from Canada, but nowhere near overboard. However, it's clear to me that Cartoon Network is just picking up the show's because they're Canadian even though the show's aren't that great. Especially since most people here and in Canada praise other shows such as Class of the Titans, which hasn't been acquired and shows like L.O.S.E, which are only mildly successful. But this is a thread to discuss anime anyways.