Thoughts on Paul? (Pokemon thread)

[Terror of Death]

This topic was slightly touched upon in an unrelated thread so I thought why not make a new thread to discuss it.

Anyway, this thread is about your opinion of the character. Do you like him, hate him, or do you feel indifference? How do you feel about the way he behaves and treats his Pokemon? Also, how would you feel if he won the Sinnoh League tournament?

First and foremost I would like to talk about his treatment of Pokemon. I for one think Paul being a Pokemon abuser is arguable. As far as we know none of the Pokemon he has trained have died or were severely injured beyond capable medical treatment. He takes them to the Pokemon center and them appear to be healthy so I don’t think his training methods are as awful as they seem to be. If what Paul was doing was so bad he would have probably been reported or arrested a long time ago. Neither Brock nor Paul’s brother Reggie have alerted the authorities so I can safely say what he’s doing is perfectly legal. Paul is pretty open about what he does and no one has done anything about it so far. I fail to see how it could be deemed as wrong and inappropriate. Unless of course abusing Pokemon is legal in the cartoon but I seriously doubt that. He simply has a different approach to training Pokemon, nothing more.

What I love about Paul is that he is a well balanced character and he is so radically different from what we are use to in the series. He’s one of the few exceptions in a show where good and bad is almost always clear cut. Paul is a nice shade of gray. A mixture between the good guys like Ash, Gary, and the evil ones like Rocket, Galactic, etc. He treats Pokemon as tools of power and looks down on some people but he is also a hard working trainer (he managed to raise several strong Pokemon and has earned 24+ badges). Furthermore, Paul has been shown to be nice and polite at times to certain people.

I’m also rooting for Paul because he isn’t perfect, he’s realistic. He isn’t evil but he’s not completely good and heroic either. He’s flawed and that’s what makes him such a great character. Paul winning the Sinnoh League isn’t the same as a villain taking over the world or a cheater acing a test. Him winning just shows that a character doesn’t have to be pure of heart or super nice to succeed. They can be an average guy who happens to have a couple bad traits.

So, what are your thoughts on the subject?

[J!!!]

As Oak said in the first guide book for Pokemon "Pokemon don't die they faint" and considering it's a kids show I doubt there would be any deaths. But Paul is how we are with are Pokemon games we train em and release the weak Pokemon. He is more realistic than any other trainer on the show......................but he is still a jerk.

[Collie]

He's a total jerk and is in DIRE need of repeatedly getting his butt kicked. I prefer my protagonists to be clear-cut good guys ... this is why I file Paul as an antagonist. He's simply far too big a jerk for me to ever consider a good guy unless he really cleans up his act.

[warnerbroman]

He's a total jerk and is in DIRE need of repeatedly getting his butt kicked. I prefer my protagonists to be clear-cut good guys ... this is why I file Paul as an antagonist. He's simply far too big a jerk for me to ever consider a good guy unless he really cleans up his act.I do like how he is not a sap like the others

[Lazerboy5000]

There are two ways I can look at Paul. The first of which is in a realistic view. Yes, he is a complete jerk to the people who he doesn't respect. And I do question the way he treats his pokemon. He seems to be unessarily harshon his pokemon, but I would just let him do what he wants. Everybody is different, and some trainers are harsher than others on their pokemon. It's just that Paul is on the extreme side of that spectrum and we haven't really meet anyone else that's even close to Paul.

The other way I look at this is from a viewing of the show type of view. In this sence, Paul is an outstanding character, in my opinion, and it is becuase of the fire that has been lit becuase of the rivalry between Ash and Paul. Paul's radical style has been something we've never seen in the show before and I really liked the change of pace it gave the show.


And, finally I have a funny story. I was talking to one of my friends about a month ago if pokemon were real. He told me that he would beat and train his pokemon into war-like machine. He would teach them never to faint. This was funny, becuase as he explained to me his would-be training style, I just thought or how similar it was to Paul's style. It just goes to show that there are people who would just be mean people (and no, my friend isn't a bad guy, he's just imtimidating :p ) are out there and it doesn't mean they're criminals. So Paul is prefectly fine to me. Yes, he's a jerk, and I don't agree with his training style either, but it's something that the show needed for it to have a change of pace.

[Yusuke Urameshi]

I liked paul better when he was called "Gary"

Seriously, its like they just took gary (main rival of ash in season #1) and just made him way more evil towards pokemon, at least Gary was more of a strong willed person, but paul is just too stuborn to realize that he is a jerk to people around him and his pokemon, and, it will be his ultimate downfall.

[Lightning Tiger]

well, il just rehash what i wrote in the other thread

I like Paul better than ash, i don't hold it against him that hes a jerk, or that hes tough on his pokemon (cause the hardest way is definitely the best), the only thing i hold against him is he treats his pokemon like crap. Frankly every battle hes been in that dint involve Ash in the battle has been better than the vast majority of all of Ash's battles (yeah, i know there have been few of those, like, 2, but still).

I remember a while back when he was training Chimchar by having 3 of his other Pokes attack it at once and he had to beat all their moves, while rough, i see nothing wrong with that, only with his lack of kindness, His whole "treats his pokes like crap" deal needs to be fixed, its just annoying.

[Radical]

My thoughts on the jerk Paul:

Paul may be a gigantic jerkhole(by his evil face:evil:),but he's Ash's next best interesting jerk rival since Gary,much worse than the jerk Damien which makes it interesting to have such an evil heartless,ruthless,rotten,abusive trainer who treats his Pokemon like tools for battling,never goes to Pokemon Centers,bashes on them when his pokemon lose,rips on poor Maylene,& dumps Chimchar which makes him so evil next to Harley,Hunter J,Team Galactic,& Coco:evil:.I feel bad for Chimchar though,but he got stronger from Paul's evil training,but went berserk using Blaze further on when Ash has him which was frightening/interesting:eek:,when Ash calmed it down which Chimchar is happy to have great friends & that Ash is a great trainer than Paul on raising/training him well.Cynthia beating & taming the jerk Paul was so brilliant which she's awesome,especially the kids mocking him in the background,hehehe,but Paul didn't care for her messages of course,doesn't fear losing/humiliation,& has a cool head which impressed me.I like the jerk Paul next to Hunter J,Team Galactic,& Coco,but I'll enjoy his just desserts when Ash crushes him in the Sinnoh League Tournament with a stronger fully evolved Chimchar,the Infernape to make him pay for his crimes of treating/abusing Pokemon pretty soon:D.
It was so funny when the jerk Paul pissed off poor Dawn in a huge fiery rage calling him a spoiled brat which he is,hahahahaha.
He's the much worse jerk rival reminding me of Vegeta,Seto Kaiba,Kai,Len Tao,Ryuhou,Sasuke,& Masquerade.
Paul's dub voice actor Julian Rebolledo did an excellent job with Paul's giant jerkiness/personality in the series as well.
By seeing your cool avatar Lazerboy5000,you're a great Paul fan which I like him too.
I think that family issues of being unimpressed of his awesome brother Reggie being a breeder got his cruel,rotten behavior started,the first step.
Also with Reggie losing to Brandon which made Paul become a cruel jerkhole,the 2nd step,& Brandon might be Reggie/Paul's father which he has Paul's resemblance & with him losing to his father Brandon since Cynthia was excellent which the jerkhole Paul has to learn that he can't win with only power.
Off topic,after watching One Piece,even those Tenryuubito Nobles were just as cruel/nasty as Paul in my opinion.

[Mad Mod 49]

Okay, here we go.....I've been saying it alot but I really, really don't like Paul. As many have said, this show has had many nice trainers so a seriously cruel jerkwad who is mean to his pokemon and other people was a pretty good idea. It's the execution of the character that I don't like.

After showing promise in the season opener, Paul's next episode was all about "Paul treats his pokemon badly and Ash doesn't believe in those methods, so the two rivals hate each other." And for the few other episodes I've seen Paul in, that's all it's ever amounted to. Ash is a boring one-note nice trainer who loves his pokemon while Paul is a boring one-note jerk trainer who abuses his pokemon. The personality clash never interested me, not even when they had to tag-team together! :sad:

And about the fact that he abuses his pokemon; like I said before, animal abusers are NOT cool and Paul is the pokemon world equivlant to one. Even so, I would have enjoyed his character more if he had been cast in a more villainous role. Instead he's just a rival and even worse, sometimes an anti-hero while Team Rocket remains the regular villains. Yet Paul is more repulsive than any of the villains, Team Galactic included! Seriously, Hunter J and the Masked Marauder from that Celebi movie are/were majorly evil jerks but those types of character in those roles make them good villains. Paul is stuck in a boring rivalry with a boring character. And as long as his attitude stays villainous, I can never take him seriously as an "anti-hero."

I don't think he's well developed either. Despite all we learn about him and his pokemon, it's the same old thing everytime he shows up! He comes, he's a jerk, he leaves. (To be fair, I don't think any rivals in the D/P series have been developed. Zoey started off so cool then quickly got shafted, Kenny was an uneffective character to begin with, and I just don't like the looks of the Jun subplot.) Oh and yes, Paul is "realistic" but in real life, I doubt anyone here would be able to stand someone who acts like him. And if he reflects how people are when they play Pokemon, I'm not sure you're supposed to like what your seeing. :shrug:

Lastly, his stoic, uncaring attitude just bugs the hell out of me. It's the same reason I disliked Heero Yuy from Gundam, Kai from Beyblade, Seto Kaiba from Yugioh, and of course Sasuke from Naruto. Nobody should like that kind of attitude and we should feel bad for any character who has to put up with it.

And for the love of God, Paul should NOT win the Sinnoh League! He's not "an average guy who happens to have a couple bad traits." He's an abusive jerkass. And that is not the kind of person you'd want to see rewarded. If he changes his ways and wins then maybe I'd let it slide. Maybe.... So yeah, I don't like Paul but I don't really like this show that much in general so what do I know, huh?:p


I remember a while back when he was training Chimchar by having 3 of his other Pokes attack it at once and he had to beat all their moves, while rough, i see nothing wrong with that, only with his lack of kindness, His whole "treats his pokes like crap" deal needs to be fixed, its just annoying.

Again, I have to recall AJ from way back when in the first season. He was just like Paul when it came to training his pokemon toughly but despite what Ash kept thinking, he really cared about Sandshrew and all his other pokemon. Paul has to learn to care about his pokemon or he just won't win. It's a message that's been said since the first Pokemon game ever.

[Marvin Tikvah]

I really like Paul. Like Terror said, he is neither a clear cut good guy or bad guy. His methods are tough, but he is not using Pokemon to further some evil plot. He's simply a dedicated trainer who will use any means necessary to win.

I could argue that he doesn't care about his Pokemon, but considering the amount he has captured, and the amount that have stuck with him since he began his journey, it seems he must care to a certain degree. Otherwise, he would've just ignored Cynthia's words when his team was squashed by her Garchomp.

While he doesn't respect Ash as a trainer or anyone that seems associated with him, he notices the difference in attitude and methods. Also, unlike Ash, he doesn't force his method of training down others throats. He simply blames the trainer's inability to win instead of how powerful their team is.

Believe me, he's far from an ideal trainer, but he seems quite realistic in an idealistic world where everyone is friends with wild creatures captured for various reasons.

[LordTerminal]

What can I say that hasn't already been said? True Paul's the type of rival the show kinda needs but he does the job a little too well. My real concern is why every Pokemon he catches let him treat them as toys and put up with it? Surely there's at least one Pokemon that would maul him for trying to force them to get stronger like what he did with Chimchar before he released it.

I still fantasize about Wes from Pokemon Colloseum running over Paul with his bike every time Paul pisses me off. I have no problem with a jerkass trainer that makes Gary look like a saint but sometimes Paul just crosses the line a tiny bit. I don't think he's said one respectful thing about another trainer he's defeated. (Except for maybe one Gym Leader) Plus there's the afformentioned Chimchar scenario.

And for those comparing Paul to us when we play the games: You've got a point but keep in mind that the cartoon doesn't exactly follow the games' logic entirely if a Grovyle can lose to a Luvdisc. (And yes I still use that example when bringing that topic up. There's making even a useless Pokemon look formidable and then there's taking that idea to ridiculous heights. And the show's already ridiculous enough as it is)

[Preston]

To be honest, I've always been a large fun of cruel, unwavering villains. When you have the heroic protagonist, it gives you a great contrast. The Joker from The Killing Joke is kind of my favorite villain archetype. Paul obviously isn't psychologically torturing his enemies, but he's definitely a lot crueler then Gary ever was.

[Mad Mod 49]

To be honest, I've always been a large fan of cruel, unwavering villains. When you have the heroic protagonist, it gives you a great contrast. The Joker from The Killing Joke is kind of my favorite villain archetype. Paul obviously isn't psychologically torturing his enemies, but he's definitely a lot crueler then Gary ever was.

Again, Paul is NOT a villain, which is a problem I have with him. If he were, I'm sure I'd like him more. 'Cause cruel villains like Killing Joke Joker are quite awesome.:evil:

[warnerbroman]

Again, Paul is NOT a villain, which is a problem I have with him. If he were, I'm sure I'd like him more. 'Cause cruel villains like Killing Joke Joker are quite awesome.:evil:that is what Cyrus is for

[Lazerboy5000]

By seeing your cool avatar Lazerboy5000,you're a great Paul fan which I like him too.
Oh yeah... :p
that is what Cyrus is for
Yes.

And, I feel, that I would probably be repeating myself, but again, the biggest reason I like Paul is becuase he gave the series a complete change of pase. If Paul were a villan, then it would be more normal, and he would make an interesing villan, becuase he is still just a kid, but all villans are mean, and that would be nothing new to the series.

Now, from I think everyone should see what Jun has in store when he comes around. From what I've read, you should all be interested in this character which should be introduced pretty soon here.

[Light Lucario]

I remember a while back when he was training Chimchar by having 3 of his other Pokes attack it at once and he had to beat all their moves, while rough, i see nothing wrong with that, only with his lack of kindness, His whole "treats his pokes like crap" deal needs to be fixed, its just annoying.

I'm pretty sure that he had more than three Pokemon attack Chimchar during that scene, but I haven't watched the Tag Battle arc for awhile anyway.

The main problem I have with that is how Paul was willing to push Chimchar well beyond its limits in order to tap into its special Blaze power. I don't think he was planning on stopping then until Ash and Dawn came to Chimchar's rescue. There was also the fact that Paul did use it in the following day's match, despite how Nurse Joy told him that Chimchar needed the rest, all in order to make it stronger and get that Blaze power. Then there was abandoning it in the middle of the match, while being scared out of its mind, and then releasing it right after the match. To me, that really feels like abuse right there.

As for how I feel about Paul, I agree that he's a total jerk towards his Pokemon. While we've only seen the full effect of his behavior on Chimchar, considering he put more pressure, on-screen anyway, on it in order to capture that Blaze power, he doesn't seem to care that much about his other Pokemon. He often insults the Pokemon after they lose a match, which I've always thought was kind of harsh.

I do like how he does bring in something really different for Pokemon though. We haven't really had much trainers who treated their Pokemon like this outside of evil team members, except for Jessie and James. There are times where I seriously get annoyed with his attitude and develop a strong desire to defeat him with simply my Lucario from either my Diamond or Pearl game, especially during the Tag Battle arc, but that's what I kind of like about him too. It's basically the whole like to dislike thing with Paul for me.

As for the idea that Paul represents the trainer we play as from the games, I don't really see how that works. I've heard this on Pokemon fourms for awhile now, but it still doesn't click with me. As I mentioned in the other thread, all of the games promote friendship and care between a trainer and his/her Pokemon, even way back in the R/B/Y days before they had friendship meters for all of your Pokemon. I really don't see Paul developing a bond with any of his Pokemon.

And for the love of God, Paul should NOT win the Sinnoh League! He's not "an average guy who happens to have a couple bad traits." He's an abusive jerkass. And that is not the kind of person you'd want to see rewarded. If he changes his ways and wins then maybe I'd let it slide. Maybe.... So yeah, I don't like Paul but I don't really like this show that much in general so what do I know, huh?:p

I never even thought that Paul winning the Sinnoh League was a possibility. It would give the idea that his treatment of his Pokemon was okay, despite being pretty harsh on them. Even if he did become more like AJ from season one, meaning train his Pokemon hard but still cares about them, I wouldn't be too comfortable with him winning at all.

I could argue that he doesn't care about his Pokemon, but considering the amount he has captured, and the amount that have stuck with him since he began his journey, it seems he must care to a certain degree. Otherwise, he would've just ignored Cynthia's words when his team was squashed by her Garchomp.

You do bring up an interesting point with how many Pokemon Paul has captured. However, he does just release Pokemon that he doesn't want or aren't strong enough. As for the amount of Pokemon he's had since his journey began, I think he mentioned once how he started off with a Turtwig and it's now a Torrtera, so I think that's the only one he's had from the start. I was also under the impression that, based on Paul's last encounter with Ash, he didn't care for Cynthia's message at all.

[Radical Raven]

I really need to watch the new Pokemon episodes. This Paul sounds like an interesting character. I always though it'd be nice for Ash to have a real antagonist, instead of a mostly-one-sided rinalry or a trio of bufoons.

[Mad Mod 49]

Now, from I think everyone should see what Jun has in store when he comes around. From what I've read, you should all be interested in this character which should be introduced pretty soon here.


I like Jun or whatever-he's-gonna-be-called-in-the-dub too but from what I've read, his storyline isn't too interesting. With the way Ash is ahead of him in both training and gym battles, it just seems to like an excuse to have Ash own in him battle eventually. But what is interesting, however, is that Jun seems to take examples from Paul's training methods. That could come into play if the two actually meet and Jun sees his inspiration for what he really is. :evil:

[Lightning Tiger]

The main problem I have with that is how Paul was willing to push Chimchar well beyond its limits in order to tap into its special Blaze power.
That reminds me, hes an idiot, everybody knows Blaze only works when your low on health, he cant just "tap into it".

[warnerbroman]

That reminds me, hes an idiot, everybody knows Blaze only works when your low on health, he cant just "tap into it".yeah an pikachu should not know volt tackle

[Lazerboy5000]

That reminds me, hes an idiot, everybody knows Blaze only works when your low on health, he cant just "tap into it".
Well, this Blaze seems to be somewhat special. Not just your standard, low on health Blaze, but the Blaze chimchar displaied was much more than that. It seems that Chimchar's "Super Blaze" could only be used in dier need.
yeah an pikachu should not know volt tackle
Why is that. Pikachu is at a very high level, and don't unevolved pokemon tend to learn moves more quickly than evolved ones?

[Collie]

Why is that. Pikachu is at a very high level, and don't unevolved pokemon tend to learn moves more quickly than evolved ones?

From Bulbapedia:
There is only one way to get Volt Tackle, which is only available in Pokémon Emerald (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon_Emerald_Version). The player (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Player_character) must breed a female Pikachu (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pikachu_%28Pok%C3%A9mon%29) or Raichu (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Raichu_%28Pok%C3%A9mon%29) holding a Light Ball (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Light_Ball) with any Pokémon in the same egg group (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Egg_group) as Pikachu. If the Pikachu and its mating partner are put into the daycare and they meet the conditions (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon_Breeding) to produce an egg, the hatched Pichu (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pichu_%28Pok%C3%A9mon%29) will have Volt Tackle.

In other words, Pikachu should have had Volt Tackle since it hatched as a Pichu; there's no way to learn it other than that breeding technique. Of course, the anime is not beholden to the rules of the games anyway, other than in the most vague terms.

[Lazerboy5000]

From Bulbapedia:
There is only one way to get Volt Tackle, which is only available in Pokémon Emerald (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon_Emerald_Version). The player (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Player_character) must breed a female Pikachu (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pikachu_%28Pok%C3%A9mon%29) or Raichu (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Raichu_%28Pok%C3%A9mon%29) holding a Light Ball (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Light_Ball) with any Pokémon in the same egg group (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Egg_group) as Pikachu. If the Pikachu and its mating partner are put into the daycare and they meet the conditions (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon_Breeding) to produce an egg, the hatched Pichu (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pichu_%28Pok%C3%A9mon%29) will have Volt Tackle.

In other words, Pikachu should have had Volt Tackle since it hatched as a Pichu; there's no way to learn it other than that breeding technique. Of course, the anime is not beholden to the rules of the games anyway, other than in the most vague terms.
Ok, I see. And you're right as well. The anime doesn't follow the game rules 100% of the time. Probably the biggest example of this would be Drake's Dragonite that knew 6 moves. :sweat:

[StellaMagic]

There is this upcoming ep where Ash's Turtwig finally evolves. Paul actually talked to Brock and there as this flashback where it shows the badges that were on the fire mantle and Reggie. I saw a video about it. The problem is that it was in Japanese. I don't know what Paul was saying but whatever it is might be connected to why Paul treats his Pokemon so cruelly.

[TKnHappyNess]

I know Paul has earned at least 27 or so. Reggie has earned 32 badges and 6 Frontier symbols. The only Pokemon he really seemed to abuse was Chimchar. Those 3 Starly and Stantler, he released them, and as for Azumarill, he gave it to some kid who will probably treat it better. He even explained that Chimchar was the only one he put under intense training. Maybe if he's like the rival from G/S/C, once Ash knocks him down a few pegs by beating him, he'll realize that Pokemon aren't just tools.

[Light Lucario]

There is this upcoming ep where Ash's Turtwig finally evolves. Paul actually talked to Brock and there as this flashback where it shows the badges that were on the fire mantle and Reggie. I saw a video about it. The problem is that it was in Japanese. I don't know what Paul was saying but whatever it is might be connected to why Paul treats his Pokemon so cruelly.

Since you're post contained some spoilers, I put spoiler tags around it so that it wouldn't spoil anything for people who have not seen the Japanese version. You're more than welcomed to post that kind of information, but please remember to put it around spoiler tags. Thank you.

That reminds me, hes an idiot, everybody knows Blaze only works when your low on health, he cant just "tap into it".

While the anime is based off the games, the anime has never followed the game rules for moves and abilities one hundred percent. If it did, then Ash would have used a machine on Pikachu back during Advance when he was teaching it Iron Tail and it would have worked instantly. I would think that Chimchar's Blaze has something special to it too since it gains a strong amount of power once it taps into that power.

[StellaMagic]

Since you're post contained some spoilers, I put spoiler tags around it so that it wouldn't spoil anything for people who have not seen the Japanese version. You're more than welcomed to post that kind of information, but please remember to put it around spoiler tags. Thank you.



While the anime is based off the games, the anime has never followed the game rules for moves and abilities one hundred percent. If it did, then Ash would have used a machine on Pikachu back during Advance when he was teaching it Iron Tail and it would have worked instantly. I would think that Chimchar's Blaze has something special to it too since it gains a strong amount of power once it taps into that power.

Thanks, Lucario. So do you think Paul's behavior is related to Reggie and winning those badges.

[Terror of Death]

So do you think Paul's behavior is related to Reggie and winning those badges.

Most likely. I haven’t seen the episode myself but based off the information you gave we can deduce that Paul probably looked up to his brother as a kid. He saw him bring home all those badges and compete in all those leagues and wanted to be just like him. But when Reggie failed to acquire the final Frontier Symbol Paul’s adoration became resentment. Combine that with the fact that Reggie never won a single regional tournament and its safe to say Paul began to see his brother as a loser. More and more he began to look down on others he deemed as weak and develop that jerkass attitude of his.

Paul attributes Reggie’s failure as a trainer with loving and building friendships with his Pokemon. Thus, when it was finally time to begin his own journey Paul decided he would never follow in his brothers footsteps. He would do the exact opposite and train his Pokemon not with love but with cruelty. In Paul’s mind that is the only, or rather, the best way to achieve victory.

This is also why Paul dislikes Ash and sees him as weakling. Ash reminds Paul of his brother.

[Lazerboy5000]

Thanks, Lucario. So do you think Paul's behavior is related to Reggie and winning those badges.
Probably. He probably always was second best to his older brother. And maybe that brotherly rivalry maybe had some hate involved on Paul's part. So perhaps that is the reason he is so cruel. But I'm sure that there is a little more to it, becuase I don't think Reggie alone could cause some much cruelty on Paul's part.

[Golden Darkness]

Most likely. I haven’t seen the episode myself but based off the information you gave we can deduce that Paul probably looked up to his brother as a kid. He saw him bring home all those badges and compete in all those leagues and wanted to be just like him. But when Reggie failed to acquire the final Frontier Symbol Paul’s adoration became resentment. Combine that with the fact that Reggie never won a single regional tournament and its safe to say Paul began to see his brother as a loser. More and more he began to look down on others he deemed as weak and develop that jerkass attitude of his.

Paul attributes Reggie’s failure as a trainer with loving and building friendships with his Pokemon. Thus, when it was finally time to begin his own journey Paul decided he would never follow in his brothers footsteps. He would do the exact opposite and train his Pokemon not with love but with cruelty. In Paul’s mind that is the only, or rather, the best way to achieve victory.

This is also why Paul dislikes Ash and sees him as weakling. Ash reminds Paul of his brother.

Interesting that you bring this up, as there was a Pokemon clip show that aired recently aired in Japan that showed future episode clips including Paul facing off Pyramid King Brandon.

[Light Lucario]

Thanks, Lucario. So do you think Paul's behavior is related to Reggie and winning those badges.

You're welcome. That does sound like a possible idea. Younger siblings are often shown in series of being jealous or admiring their older siblings for their accomplishments. While I also agree with Lazerboy5000 that there's probably more to Paul's behavior than just how great of a trainer his brother is, I also think that Reggie winning all of those badges could be a factor into it as well.

[Terror of Death]

Interesting that you bring this up, as there was a Pokemon clip show that aired recently aired in Japan that showed future episode clips including Paul facing off Pyramid King Brandon.

Very interesting... I'm eager to see the outcome of that battle.

This is just further evidence that Paul is a fascinating character who continues to receive a previously unseen amount of exposure for a rival character and who's actions actually contribute importance and consequence to the DP storyline.

[peterg14]

Interesting that you bring this up, as there was a Pokemon clip show that aired recently aired in Japan that showed future episode clips including Paul facing off Pyramid King Brandon.

Speaking of that clip show, well sort of:

There's been a theory going around for a few years that Brandon is Paul's (and now Reggie's) father. Though this was just a little joke because of their design, the fact that Reggie doesn't have the Brave Symbol, his actual name (REGIrock, REGIsteel, REGIce sound like Reggie), and now Paul facing Brandon in the future, this seems like more than just mere coincidence.

It's just so interesting to have Paul possibly be so multi-layered, that he's not just a jerk for the sake of it, he had his reasons.

[StellaMagic]

Interesting that you bring this up, as there was a Pokemon clip show that aired recently aired in Japan that showed future episode clips including Paul facing off Pyramid King Brandon.

Maybe we'll know for sure if Paul and Brandon are related.

[Lazerboy5000]

Speaking of that clip show, well sort of:

There's been a theory going around for a few years that Brandon is Paul's (and now Reggie's) father. Though this was just a little joke because of their design, the fact that Reggie doesn't have the Brave Symbol, his actual name (REGIrock, REGIsteel, REGIce sound like Reggie), and now Paul facing Brandon in the future, this seems like more than just mere coincidence.

It's just so interesting to have Paul possibly be so multi-layered, that he's not just a jerk for the sake of it, he had his reasons.
I never thought of that! But that make complete sence. Huh, the more I think about it, the more it makes sence. Brandon wasn't the "nicest" trainer towards his pokemon either. Like, when his oppoent made a good move, he would use that to fire up his own pokemon. I can definatily see that. I hope it's true, becuase that would be interesting and pretty cool.

[Lightning Tiger]

I dont think Pauls a jerk because of his brother not winning the brave symbol, if he really thought his brother sucked he wouldn't be leaving his pokemon in his care, who leaves their pokemon to train with someone you think sucks?

personaly, i think Reggie sucks just because he quit after not getting the brave symbol, after all, quitter is a synonym for looser.

[Terror of Death]

if he really thought his brother sucked he wouldn't be leaving his pokemon in his care,

Not necessarily. Just because you think someone sucks that doesn’t mean you cant acknowledge that their useful or competent in at least some areas. For example, Paul thinks Ash sucks but he is well aware he has won tournaments and earned badges so he cant say he's a total weakling.

[Mad Mod 49]

This is just further evidence that Paul is a fascinating character who continues to receive a previously unseen amount of exposure for a rival character and who's actions actually contribute importance and consequence to the DP storyline.


It's bordered on overexposure to me. I'm fine with recurring rivals, but it's gotten to the point where Paul appearing isn't anything special anymore. Especially since I always know how he and Ash are going to react to each other. :yawn:

It's just so interesting to have Paul possibly be so multi-layered, that he's not just a jerk for the sake of it, he had his reasons.

You say "possibly" which for me means "I hope." Almost one of Paul's layers have consisted of a redeeming quality thus far, so I hope the stuff about his brother and his possible father end up making him more interesting.

[Lazerboy5000]

It's bordered on overexposure to me. I'm fine with recurring rivals, but it's gotten to the point where Paul appearing isn't anything special anymore. Especially since I always know how he and Ash are going to react to each other. :yawn:
Actually, I don't think they've been overexposing Paul. It's not like he's appearing every other episode, but it is frequent enough that he never leaves the back of your mind. But I do agree that Ash's reaction is always the same and it does start to get old. But I think Paul's just trying to get under Ash's skin, and he does. This shows that he has some control over Ash. Ash need to fricken relax and just let Paul do what he wants, becuase that way Ash can consentrate on his own training and not worry about Paul's.

You say "possibly" which for me means "I hope." Almost one of Paul's layers have consisted of a redeeming quality thus far, so I hope the stuff about his brother and his possible father end up making him more interesting.
I hope the stuff about his brother and father are true as well. It would add so much more complexity, yet it would also help explain a lot of things about Paul as well.

[Terror of Death]

It's bordered on overexposure to me. I'm fine with recurring rivals, but it's gotten to the point where Paul appearing isn't anything special anymore. Especially since I always know how he and Ash are going to react to each other. :yawn:

True, Paul and Ash's reactions to each other aren't anything new but unlike other rivals he actually does something each time he appears. Too many rivals in this series such as Zoey, Kenny, and Gary show up in an episode and do jack squat (with some exceptions of course). Paul may be a jerk but at least he keeps things interesting and makes for good discussion.

And no disrespect to you but your claims of Paul being one-note are completely false. I can write a list or even a few paragraphs of who he is and his personality traits.

I understand you don't like him but you can at least give credit where credit is due. Paul is one of the main reasons this series hasn't completely lost all of its freshness.

[Mad Mod 49]

True, Paul and Ash's reactions to each other aren't anything new but unlike other rivals he actually does something each time he appears. Too many rivals in this series such as Zoey, Kenny, and Gary show up in an episode and do jack squat (with some exceptions of course). Paul may be a jerk but at least he keeps things interesting and makes for good discussion.


I don't think Paul does much either. Whenver Gary and Drew showed up, they boasted. Whenever Zoey and Kenny show up, they do...stuff and then leave. And whenever Paul shows up, he acts like a jackass and argues with Ash. And I don't think he keeps things interesting if those things were never interesting to begin with. But he does make for good discussion, I'll give him that much.

And no disrespect to you but your claims of Paul being one-note are completely false. I can write a list or even a few paragraphs of who he is and his personality traits.

I understand you don't like him but you can at least give credit where credit is due. Paul is one of the main reasons this series hasn't completely lost all of its freshness.

No disrespect to you, but what if I were to say your claims for Paul are completely false? Would that make it true? No, we just get different impressions from this character is all. And I think of Paul in the same light that Madgoblin thinks of Venom. (http://www.spideykicksbutt.com/DarkSideoftheSpider/DarkSideoftheSpider.html) (insert random Family Guy cutaway here. :p )

And this series lost it's freshness back in Johto. New characters breathe life into a dead show, but that doesn't change the fact that it's dead. And I guess whether or not Paul livens up the show is up to opinion.

[Lazerboy5000]

I don't think Paul does much either. Whenver Gary and Drew showed up, they boasted. Whenever Zoey and Kenny show up, they do...stuff and then leave. And whenever Paul shows up, he acts like a jackass and argues with Ash. And I don't think he keeps things interesting if those things were never interesting to begin with. But he does make for good discussion, I'll give him that much.
Well, what about the Tag Team Tournament arc? During that, we learned to some degree why Paul has been training Chimchar so harshly. And he eventually released Chimchar, and Ash caught Chimchar. I think this qualifies as more than just show up and leave.

And this series lost it's freshness back in Johto. New characters breathe life into a dead show, but that doesn't change the fact that it's dead. And I guess whether or not Paul livens up the show is up to opinion.
It's not dead to me. I think you just need to enjoy the show for what it's worth. Just live in the moment, and enjoy the new "fresh" characters, even if you don't think that the series has much life to it anymore.

[Mad Mod 49]

Well, what about the Tag Team Tournament arc? During that, we learned to some degree why Paul has been training Chimchar so harshly. And he eventually released Chimchar, and Ash caught Chimchar. I think this qualifies as more than just show up and leave.

Okay, the whole Chimchar thing IS something Paul-related that does interest me, if not because I want to see how it contributes to Paul's karmic downfall. :evil:

It's not dead to me. I think you just need to enjoy the show for what it's worth. Just live in the moment, and enjoy the new "fresh" characters, even if you don't think that the series has much life to it anymore.

Tried it. Didn't exactly work out. :sad:

[Terror of Death]

I don't think Paul does much either. Whenver Gary and Drew showed up, they boasted. Whenever Zoey and Kenny show up, they do...stuff and then leave. And whenever Paul shows up, he acts like a jackass and argues with Ash.

Paul has done quite a lot actually:

1. He’s battled Ash five times. More so than any other rival.

2. We’ve seen him battle and capture several wild Pokemon including Starly, Stantler, Ninjask, and Ursaring. We rarely see rival characters capture Pokemon onscreen.

3. We’ve seen him release many Pokemon. Again, no rival has done so. And when a character does happen to release a Pokemon they never do it because the creature is weak, Paul being the exception.

4. Gave one of his Pokemon away to another trainer without requiring a trade.

5. Left two of his Pokemon with a breeder (Reggie).

6. Evolved his Elekid and Murkrow.

7. Battled and defeated two gym leaders onscreen.

8. Made a Gym leader lose her confidence. This lead into that whole Maylene story.

9. Battled a Pokemon Champion. A series first for a main character. (Unless you count that guy from the Orange Islands)

10. Train and treat his Chimchar harshly. As a result we know the specifics of Pauls’s training methods and the extent he is willing to go to bring out a Pokemon’s true potential. We also have the whole subplot with Ash and Chimchar.

11. Competed in a tag tournament and Pokeringer contest.

12. Frequently gets on Ash's nerves. :p

What we know about Paul:

1. He’s a big jerk. He treats his Pokemon cruelly and disrespects people he doesn’t like.

2. He demands the best from his Pokemon. He only captures those with useful attacks and he releases the ones who don’t meet his standards.

3. Not afraid to speak his mind. He’ll tell you what he thinks of you without a seconds thought and doesn’t care if you dislike him for it.

4. Seeks power and glory. His only focus is to win badges and enter leagues. He is not concerned with building friendships with his Pokemon and enjoying time with others.

5. He can be nice to kids. He actually approached a boy and generously gave him his own Azumarill. He could have simply released it like the others but he decided not to.

6. Respects his elders. Bowing to professor Rowan after using his compounds, listening to Cynthia’s advice about taking his Pokemon to the center, and thanking Nurse Joy for treating them.

7. He knows how to keep a cool head. During battles we never see him doubt himself or get extremely frustrated. And if he loses he just shrugs it off.

8. Shows little emotion. He either scowls or gives a small smirk.

9. He’s pretty athletic for a kid his age. While being sent down a waterfall he quickly recovers and lands to safety by jumping from rock to rock. He also apparently taught Chimchar how to do the same.

10. He’s a strong trainer. He won several badges and has competed in three leagues so far.

11. He’s brave and doesn’t fear public humiliation. He actually challenged and battled one of if not the strongest Pokemon trainers in front of a crowd of jeering kids who thought he was a crazy nobody.

12. He might have family issues. He’s displeased with his brother for ending his journey as a trainer and becoming a breeder.

You obviously have different standards on what makes for a great character but I believe most fans of the show would agree with me in saying that Paul is neither uninteresting or one-note and he doesn't just show up to argue with Ash and be a jerk.

[Light Lucario]

I don't think Paul does much either. Whenver Gary and Drew showed up, they boasted. Whenever Zoey and Kenny show up, they do...stuff and then leave. And whenever Paul shows up, he acts like a jackass and argues with Ash. And I don't think he keeps things interesting if those things were never interesting to begin with. But he does make for good discussion, I'll give him that much.

While I do agree that Gary didn't do much but brag about himself, I didn't think Drew did that. At least not nearly as much and we actually saw him battle I believe the episode right after he debut. Granted, we didn't see much of his team for awhile, but I thought that was because of how Pokemon Contests, especially back in AG, was setup on how trainers could win it with few Pokemon on their team.

I also agree that Zoey and Kenny don't really do much. I even completely forgot about Kenny at one point. I do understand where you're coming from about Paul, but I don't think that he's as dull as you point out. Yes, he mostly argues with Ash when he shows up but as Terror of Death pointed out in his impressive list, he had done quite a bit more than that during the course of D/P.

And this series lost it's freshness back in Johto. New characters breathe life into a dead show, but that doesn't change the fact that it's dead. And I guess whether or not Paul livens up the show is up to opinion.

I respect your opinion. I really do, but I don't really agree with it either. I understand where you're coming from, but I think whether or not the show is dead is subjective. So far, I've enjoyed a lot of episodes from AG and D/P more than some episodes in the the first series. It all comes down to one's opinion and that of course varies from person to person.

By the way Terror of Death, I wanted to say again that you made one impressive list for Paul's action in the series thus far. I still think that was really great for you to do.

[Radical]

WOOW,what an awesome list there Terror of Death:anime:,which is why I like the jerk Paul from what all the things he accomplished from what makes him a very interesting trainer than Ash:D,which I like all those parts explaining about him,so awesome job.

[Lazerboy5000]

I think the most important thing on that list is the fact that Paul has battled Ash five times already. That much more than any other rival ash has had, including Gary.

[Mad Mod 49]

You obviously have different standards on what makes for a great character but I believe most fans of the show would agree with me in saying that Paul is neither uninteresting or one-note and he doesn't just show up to argue with Ash and be a jerk.

No offense, but if I cared what the fans of the show thought, I'd be a fan of the show myself. I'm more or less a critic, and I'm merely posting my opinion on the matter that the fandom might not think about (or want to think about.)

So yeah, I don't care what "most fans" say. To me, Paul's as uninteresting and flat as any regular character in this show (or any other character in his archetype, like Sasuke Uchiha), and he certainly doesn't give it anything new or fresh.

Kudos for the list, Terror of Death, even if it still doesn't quite convert me into liking Paul (it actually might have made me dislike him even more......) Look, I respect your opinion and all, but I think it's one that you'd have to actually be in the show's fandom to "get". So I don't think I'll ever "get" it. Sorry.

I think the most important thing on that list is the fact that Paul has battled Ash five times already. That much more than any other rival ash has had, including Gary.


Gary battled you ALOT in the games, so I was always dissapointed that he barely ever battled in the show. However, there's more to being a rival than battling and I still think Gary did the overall job better than others like Paul.

[Terror of Death]

Kudos for the list, Terror of Death, even if it still doesn't quite convert me into liking Paul (it actually might have made me dislike him even more......) Look, I respect your opinion and all, but I think it's one that you'd have to actually be in the show's fandom to "get". So I don't think I'll ever "get" it. Sorry.

Its alright if you dislike the show or Paul's character, far be it from me to stop you. But in all honesty, I think the series has been improving in some areas throughout the years. The inclusion of contests, wonderful characters such as May, Harley, and Paul, more interesting battles, storylines that are more fleshed out, getting to see Ash, Dawn, and May teach their Pokemon new attacks, better filler, and a unique variety of Pokemon for the main characters. I wasn't a big fan of Johto but I think this show has been getting better and better since then.

[Lazerboy5000]

Its alright if you dislike the show or Paul's character, far be it from me to stop you. But in all honesty, I think the series has been improving in some areas throughout the years. The inclusion of contests, wonderful characters such as May, Harley, and Paul, more interesting battles, storylines that are more fleshed out, getting to see Ash, Dawn, and May teach their Pokemon new attacks, better filler, and a unique variety of Pokemon for the main characters. I wasn't a big fan of Johto but I think this show has been getting better and better since then.
I agree, look at all the new rivals we've been getting recently. Before Honneh, I think the only rival we saw more than once was Gary, and he didn't even show up all that often through Kanto and Johto. With the addition of Harley, Drew, Zoey and Paul, I think the show has taken a step in the right direction.

[Light Lucario]

Gary battled you ALOT in the games, so I was always dissapointed that he barely ever battled in the show. However, there's more to being a rival than battling and I still think Gary did the overall job better than others like Paul.

I can understand and respect where you're coming from, but I'm not sure on one thing. While you do bring up an interesting point in how there's more to being a good rival than just battling, I'm not really sure what Gary did other than constantly pick on Ash during his time as his rival. Most of the times we saw him during Kanto, he would just laugh and insult Ash, act as if he was a better trainer, even though they didn't have a battle until after Ash won the Orange Island, and then leave.

And Ash's reactions whenever he crossed path with Gary was often the same. It changed a little bit during Johto, but I think that it helped how we only saw Gary three times before the Johto League. You could argue that Ash does react basically the same with Paul, but I honestly think that it helps how we've seen the battle and their different attitudes/styles as trainers. I know that there's more to being a rival than just the battle, but I do like how we actually have an idea of how Paul functions as a trainer. We really didn't have anything on Gary so whenever he insulted Ash, it always felt like he was being a jerk towards him, not really a rival.

Its alright if you dislike the show or Paul's character, far be it from me to stop you. But in all honesty, I think the series has been improving in some areas throughout the years. The inclusion of contests, wonderful characters such as May, Harley, and Paul, more interesting battles, storylines that are more fleshed out, getting to see Ash, Dawn, and May teach their Pokemon new attacks, better filler, and a unique variety of Pokemon for the main characters. I wasn't a big fan of Johto but I think this show has been getting better and better since then.

I agree with this as well. One of my favorite parts of AG was the introduction of Pokemon Contests, as well as May and her rivals. I not only found her rivals really interesting, but I did love how May grew and developed over the course of her run on the main cast. I also love how ever since AG, the main cast has been teaching moves to their Pokemon, at least Ash, May and I guess Dawn with Aipom's Double Hit, and how they do have a more unique team of Pokemon. While I didn't really find Johto to be that bad, I do agree that the series has also been developing and improving with each new region.

[Mad Mod 49]

I can understand and respect where you're coming from, but I'm not sure on one thing. While you do bring up an interesting point in how there's more to being a good rival than just battling, I'm not really sure what Gary did other than constantly pick on Ash during his time as his rival. Most of the times we saw him during Kanto, he would just laugh and insult Ash, act as if he was a better trainer, even though they didn't have a battle until after Ash won the Orange Island, and then leave.

And Ash's reactions whenever he crossed path with Gary was often the same. It changed a little bit during Johto, but I think that it helped how we only saw Gary three times before the Johto League. You could argue that Ash does react basically the same with Paul, but I honestly think that it helps how we've seen the battle and their different attitudes/styles as trainers. I know that there's more to being a rival than just the battle, but I do like how we actually have an idea of how Paul functions as a trainer. We really didn't have anything on Gary so whenever he insulted Ash, it always felt like he was being a jerk towards him, not really a rival.


Oh yes, I know all that; what I was trying to say was that Gary gave Ash a better drive to compete than others like Paul do. He acted the same way about Gary even when he wasn't even around. As opposed to when he'll always say "It's Paul!" when Paul shows up, then proceed have different feelings towards him (even respect towards him in the Cynthia episode. The hell?) and then go back to hating him once he's reminded of what a jerk Paul is to his pokemon and to him.

So, I think Gary was more than a jerk and made an effective rival, IMO moreso than Paul (but thanks for differating "jerk" from "rival". Far too many people seem to think that a rival HAS to be a jerk in order to be a rival, which just isn't true. If it was, all rival sports teams in real life would HAAAAAAATE each other! ^_^)

[Lazerboy5000]

I can understand and respect where you're coming from, but I'm not sure on one thing. While you do bring up an interesting point in how there's more to being a good rival than just battling, I'm not really sure what Gary did other than constantly pick on Ash during his time as his rival. Most of the times we saw him during Kanto, he would just laugh and insult Ash, act as if he was a better trainer, even though they didn't have a battle until after Ash won the Orange Island, and then leave.

And Ash's reactions whenever he crossed path with Gary was often the same. It changed a little bit during Johto, but I think that it helped how we only saw Gary three times before the Johto League. You could argue that Ash does react basically the same with Paul, but I honestly think that it helps how we've seen the battle and their different attitudes/styles as trainers. I know that there's more to being a rival than just the battle, but I do like how we actually have an idea of how Paul functions as a trainer. We really didn't have anything on Gary so whenever he insulted Ash, it always felt like he was being a jerk towards him, not really a rival.
That's ture. We really didn't know much about Gary at all, other than the fact that he was Ash's rival. We didn't know anything about how he trained his pokemon. We could only speculate. I always thought of Gary as a neutral trainer. Like, he didn't treat his pokemon nearly as harshly as Paul does, but I never thought that he "loved" his pokemon. I just thought that he trained pokemon like it was his job. Like, he treated it like a buisness... if that makes any sence. But we never knew for sure.

[Light Lucario]

Oh yes, I know all that; what I was trying to say was that Gary gave Ash a better drive to compete than others like Paul do. He acted the same way about Gary even when he wasn't even around. As opposed to when he'll always say "It's Paul!" when Paul shows up, then proceed have different feelings towards him (even respect towards him in the Cynthia episode. The hell?) and then go back to hating him once he's reminded of what a jerk Paul is to his pokemon and to him.

So, I think Gary was more than a jerk and made an effective rival, IMO moreso than Paul (but thanks for differating "jerk" from "rival". Far too many people seem to think that a rival HAS to be a jerk in order to be a rival, which just isn't true. If it was, all rival sports teams in real life would HAAAAAAATE each other! ^_^)

Oh, okay. That makes more sense. I think the reason why Ash can act different around Paul, such as trying to be friendly with him during the episode his Turtwig battled then Paul's Chimchar and try to respect him more in the Cynthia episode, comes from how he isn't like how he was back during the earlier part of his journey. I think that he has matured a little bit, at least in some aspects.

I don't think that a rival has to be a jerk either in order to be interesting. That can make a really good rival, depending on how it's handled, like with Harley and Paul, in my opinion. I didn't think Drew was really a jerk rival for May. He kind of started out as one, but he cooled down relatively soon after he appeared for the first time. Even though Harley is more of a hilariously weird/jerk rival, I think Drew is one of May's greatest rivals becaue of how he interacted with May in both the Hoenn and Kanto Contests and Grand Festivals.

That's ture. We really didn't know much about Gary at all, other than the fact that he was Ash's rival. We didn't know anything about how he trained his pokemon. We could only speculate. I always thought of Gary as a neutral trainer. Like, he didn't treat his pokemon nearly as harshly as Paul does, but I never thought that he "loved" his pokemon. I just thought that he trained pokemon like it was his job. Like, he treated it like a buisness... if that makes any sence. But we never knew for sure.

It's true that we really didn't know much about Gary at first, not even what kind of Pokemon he had until his battle with Mewtwo. Even after that, we didn't know how he treated his Pokemon. I think that you have a good idea with seeing Gary as a neutral trainer. He did seem kind of surprised to hear Ash talking about making friends with all of his Pokemon back after they had enough badges for the Indigo League so that does sound like a possible way to describe Gary back in season one. I think that it did change during Johto since his Eevee did evolve into an Umbreon and he mentioned how he had trained an Arcaniane for a long time as well. I think that the problem comes from how we never get to see that development for Gary on-screen. It was only mentioned/implied through his meetings with Ash and battles.