The CN "Silver Age"?

[Old School Toon]

Most people will say during CN "Golden Age" it was the best period of tv in general not just CN. Animation was affected the most by original ideas and out the ordinary concepts such as fusing adult humor in a kids show or having drastic new art styles. Well CN "Golden Age" lasted at least a decade starting around 1995 when CN original shows started and ended probably around 2005 since that was the netwrok's last "good year". 2006 was bad but 2007 was terrible. Now it seems CN is finally bakc on track and it's "Silver Age of CN" may be dawning.

My question is do you think this wonderful 2008 which is leading into 2009 will be the rise of CN's very own Silver Age and will lead way into the new decade? If you do, do you think it can compare to their "Golden Age"? I personally think 2008 was the building blocks of something big to come of CN and 2009 may or may not be the 1st true "great" year for the channel since around 2005. I don't think it'll be as good as the Golden Age which introduced classics like Ed, Edd and Eddy, Cow and Chicken, Dexter's Lab, PPG and numerous more and helped build the anime craze in America with huge success for the channel with Toonami not to mention gave CN it's possibly biggest hit ever in DBZ.

What do you think will make CN in your mind enetr it's "Silver Age" on the channel?

[Racattack!Force]

The channel is indeed entering its Silver Age. The animated programming is getting better, along with less live-action on the schedule (and the cancellation of OOJH). The Looney Tunes marathon sounds great, after all, it has been a while since they've shown the classic shorts. And if the marathon does well, then it will likely get a place on the schedule: possibly leading the way to more classics airing on the channel for a possible 70-30 (or 60-40) mix of new and old programming. The amazing success of TDI (the finale got the highest ratings the network has ever gotten since the premiere of an old PPG episode in '00.) could lead to more acquisitions in the future.

[Chykin]

I agree completely. CN is definitely entering its Silver Age. We have Noods, CN is getting some of its best ratings in a while, the return of the classics is a possiblity, OOJH is cancled, and aquisitions are doing great.

I welcome the Silver Age with open arms! :D

[Comics_the_QB]

Definitely.

The shows are better in quality and animation. There bumpers are not only cool, but not live action (unlike "Fall" :shrug:). The most important thing is (for me), is that I have fun watching the channel. It's great to see what they'll do next or how they'll present a certain show. I congrat CN for doing so much better than they have in the past few years. :)

Welcome to the Silver Age of CN!

[Blackstar]

Silver Age? I don't know if I'd go that far, but Cartoon Network has definitely taken a step in the right direction. CN is looking much better now in comparison to how abysmal things looked back in 2007. I'm not going to sugar coat it; CN was swimming with the Tidy Bowl man last year. Now, CN has better shows such as Chowder, The Marvelous Misadventures of Flapjack, The Secret Saturdays and The Brave and the Bold. The non-animated programming was been reduced considerably (although I won't be completely satisfied until the live action movies stop airing on The Flicks), and maybe, just maybe, we could be getting Looney Tunes on CN again.

So, while gone are the days when I could just turn the channel to CN and leave it there for 3 to 4 hours, CN has still taken a turn for the better.

[chdr]

CN is definitely in a Silver Age, but I think that if this pace continues in a couple years we just may have a Second Golden Age on our hands here.

Things are looking up for CN.

[Old School Toon]

The one thing I hope for is some type of show that just blows minds completly. When DBZ belw up it blew minds and helped make CN what it is even though it had already been huge in Japan for years it's gaint success in America is due to CN and Toonami. CN originals like Ed, Edd and Eddy made CN what it was by testing waters and not being so politicly correct. We haven't had any shows that have defined boundries in years.

Why haven't we seen shows like Anamaniacs or Pinky in The Brain in years? Why haven't the shows that actualy made you say "I didn't think they would show that in a cartoon" appeared in years? I think it's just been an overall creative slump really. Cartooninstitute seems to be that show that will just hopefully be anohter What a Cartoon or Cartoon Cartoon in terms of having creativity and help make some brand new CN originals.

I don't think CN can truly enter it's "Silver Age" until it gets the shows that warrant something you can call a real revolution. Flapjack is easily the only show to me that I can say made me feel like I was watching CN around 2001 again.

[nakak]

Well, I wouldn't call it that, but I've been very impressed with "Chowder," "Flapjack" AND I'm pretty excited about "Adventure Time" and "Cartoonstitute."

As far as comedy goes, I guess it's doing pretty good. I don't pay attention to action, so I can't comment on that.

[peterg14]

I don't think CN can truly enter it's "Silver Age" until it gets the shows that warrant something you can call a real revolution. Flapjack is easily the only show to me that I can say made me feel like I was watching CN around 2001 again.

Well, there is that little show about the Canadian teenagers doing stupid things at a summer camp and does/shows things that no one thought CN would show in this day and age. But more show like that are welcome, though.

I don't think that CN will truly enter the Silver Age until they have more than Tom and Jerry running as classics. Looney Toons is a start, but something like Flintstones, Jetsons, T&J, Looney Toons, and HB Shorts getting 2 hours in the afternoon, say 12 pm to 2 pm, would be awesome.

[Old School Toon]

Well, there is that little show about the Canadian teenagers doing stupid things at a summer camp and does/shows things that no one thought CN would show in this day and age. But more show like that are welcome, though.

I don't think that CN will truly enter the Silver Age until they have more than Tom and Jerry running as classics. Looney Toons is a start, but something like Flintstones, Jetsons, T&J, Looney Toons, and HB Shorts getting 2 hours in the afternoon, say 12 pm to 2 pm, would be awesome.

TDI is not a revolution. It's a change for the network but it's far from a revolution and far from ever being called revolutionary. Also I don't hink having classics will make CN enter a Silver Age. I mean yes they're nice but they aren't needed. New original ideas and shows and blocks are what is needed.

[Blackstar]

TDI is not a revolution. It's a change for the network but it's far from a revolution and far from ever being called revolutionary. Also I don't hink having classics will make CN enter a Silver Age. I mean yes they're nice but they aren't needed. New original ideas and shows and blocks are what is needed.

A combination of both of those things would qualify as a revolution, as the Cartoon Network of old had a mixture of both old and new programming. The best era of CN wasn't exclusively 1 thing or the other.

[Old School Toon]

A combination of both of those things would qualify as a revolution, as the Cartoon Network of old had a mixture of both old and new programming. The best era of CN wasn't exclusively 1 thing or the other.

Yeah a cmbination would be nice but then again it also kind of defates the pirpose of Boomerang. In my closed Toonami on Boomerang Thread I said I thought Toonami soone ror later would become more of what CN used to be by having obviously the classics but getting more and more of the 90s classics and shows from the 00s that don't appear on CN.

If thats the case the CN can rely on original stuff and let Boomerang be the perfect mixture of old and new. I'd much rather have CN be more 80-20 in terms of new shows if they're actually quality then have a mixture of 60-40 or 50-50 between new shows of quality and old shows. Now if we kept getting shows like OOJH then hell yea I would probably perfer something like 80-20 classics to new shows but as long as CN gets quailty originals and aquisitions then I'd perfer newer stuff more but still keep some older stuff.

[el blacklobo]

Yes... I do indeed think we are! :D

[Racattack!Force]

TDI is not a revolution. It's a change for the network but it's far from a revolution and far from ever being called revolutionary.Total Drama Island got the network the best ratings it's ever gotten since 2000. Sure, DBZ did opening the doors for Japanese animation in the United States (over a decade after it premiered in Japan), but has it ever gotten the TDI-huge ratings Cartoon Network every wanted? :sweat:

[Blackstar]

Yeah a cmbination would be nice but then again it also kind of defates the pirpose of Boomerang. In my closed Toonami on Boomerang Thread I said I thought Toonami soone ror later would become more of what CN used to be by having obviously the classics but getting more and more of the 90s classics and shows from the 00s that don't appear on CN.

If thats the case the CN can rely on original stuff and let Boomerang be the perfect mixture of old and new. I'd much rather have CN be more 80-20 in terms of new shows if they're actually quality then have a mixture of 60-40 or 50-50 between new shows of quality and old shows. Now if we kept getting shows like OOJH then hell yea I would probably perfer something like 80-20 classics to new shows but as long as CN gets quailty originals and aquisitions then I'd perfer newer stuff more but still keep some older stuff.


Cartoon Network could never be all original programming. CN doesn't have the money or enough original shows to air Cartoon-Cartoons 24/7. Even before, during CN's "Golden Age", there were 3rd party acquisitions. Everything on CN wasn't new; half of the shows were only "new" to CN because they never aired them before. And running classics on CN would not defeat the purpose of Boomerang. I'm not suggesting that CN go back to being the Hanna-Barbera Reruns Channel, but it wouldn't hurt CN to devote a few hours of the day (and night) to some classic program blocks. Also bear in mind that Boomerang isn't available in as many homes as CN is, so running some classics for a hour or 2 each day an/or evening would be beneficial to the viewers who don't get Boomerang.

Why should Boomerang, a retro channel, be a mixture of old and new? That's was CN was originally for.

[chdr]

Total Drama Island got the network the best ratings it's ever gotten since 2000. Sure, DBZ did opening the doors for Japanese animation in the United States (over a decade after it premiered in Japan), but has it ever gotten the TDI-huge ratings Cartoon Network every wanted? :sweat:

Yeah, actually. DBZ used to be the boys' Hannah Montana as to how successful it was.

[Mugen]

Total Drama Island got the network the best ratings it's ever gotten since 2000. Sure, DBZ did opening the doors for Japanese animation in the United States (over a decade after it premiered in Japan), but has it ever gotten the TDI-huge ratings Cartoon Network every wanted? :sweat:

Many times actually. Used to break into the Top 50 cable programs, which is something CN programs rarely do.

[Old School Toon]

Total Drama Island got the network the best ratings it's ever gotten since 2000. Sure, DBZ did opening the doors for Japanese animation in the United States (over a decade after it premiered in Japan), but has it ever gotten the TDI-huge ratings Cartoon Network every wanted? :sweat:

DBZ was getting around 50 million viewers. DBZ was a way bigger success then TDI even on the smallest scale. DBZ is a multimedia multibillion dollar franshcie with a WW fanbase 10 times larger then anything TDI could ever wish. The Manga alone has sold over 150 million copies. The only animation in modern times that could even compare to DBZ success in the slitest bit is Spongebod.

[Racattack!Force]

Many times actually. Used to break into the Top 50 cable programs, which is something CN programs rarely do.WOW. :eek: No wonder that was the network's golden age. With success like that...

[Silverstar]

Cartoon Network could never be all original programming. CN doesn't have the money or enough original shows to air Cartoon-Cartoons 24/7. Even before, during CN's "Golden Age", there were 3rd party acquisitions. Everything on CN wasn't new; half of the shows were only "new" to CN because they never aired them before. And running classics on CN would not defeat the purpose of Boomerang. I'm not suggesting that CN go back to being the Hanna-Barbera Reruns Channel, but it wouldn't hurt CN to devote a few hours of the day (and night) to some classic program blocks. Also bear in mind Boomerang isn't available in as many homes as CN is, so running some classics for a hour or 2 each day an/or evening would be beneficial to the viewers who don't get Boomerang.

Why should Boomerang, a retro channel, be a mixture of old and new? That's was CN was originally for.

Exactly.

Shows over 10 years old air on Boomerang; premieres and recent acquisitions air on Cartoon Network. That works, there's a balance there.

The odd rerun or classic airing on CN doesn't or wouldn't hurt anything. For one, some classic cartoons like Tom & Jerry, Scooby-Doo and the Looney Tunes are pretty much CN staples who have been on the channel since day 1, and so they'll likely always be on CN in some form or another. Also, as previously stated, Boom is only in a handful of homes, and since it's ad-free, cable and satellite subscribers don't make any money off of it aside from subscription fees, so there's no harm in giving CN viewers a little taste of old-school to keep non-Boomerang subscribers happy and to potentially wet viewers' appeteites for classics and in turn, make them want to subscribe to Boomerang.

Now getting back on-topic: I wouldn't say that CN is in a Silver Age right now, but if it keeps heading in the direction that it is now, and irons out the odd wrinkles that it still has, I'd say it's well on its' way. CN now is a heck of a lot better than the CN of 2006 and definitely better than CN of 2007, though honestly that wouldn't take much.

[toonami012]

Silver age? I would say CN is entering its Silver age when they cancel The secret saturdays and clone wars.

[Racattack!Force]

Silver age? I would say CN is entering its Silver age when they cancel The secret saturdays and clone wars....
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If you don't like the show, don't watch it. :mad: Also, Bleach sucks.

[chdr]

What does Bleach sucking have to do with any of this?

[Mugen]

Let's end this "This show sucks!" argument right now. Its off-topic and isn't going to get us anywhere.

[toonami012]

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If you don't like the show, don't watch it. :mad: Also, Bleach sucks.

I don't watch it. I gave it one try and I hate it. I'm just saying that because they keep on repeating it 24/7

Also who cares if you think bleach sucks and does it have anything to do with the topic?

[Comics_the_QB]

What does Bleach sucking have to do with any of this?

My guess would be it being one of toonami012's favorite cartoons.

[toonami012]

My guess would be it being one of toonami012's favorite cartoons.

And i'm proud of it. :)

[Mugsy]

Sure, I'd say CN is in it's Silver Age, it is a lot different now than it was 10 years ago and 5 years before that. Huge things like YAH help propel CN in a bold new direction and the network feels like it has become something more than a station that airs cartoons, it's become destination television for many, me included.

We are in CN generation 2 and it's a great feeling to see CN break records and create huge lineups like HHT, YAH, DAS and AS, keep it up CN!!

[Mugsy]

Silver age? I would say CN is entering its Silver age when they cancel The secret saturdays and clone wars.



Why would CN cancel shows that pull in an audience?? Clone Wars is huge and TSS is doing very, very well....why would they cancel them??

[lemonhead75]

Sure seems like a Silver Age to me. General approval is up, and in my opinion, CN has foreign/original/acquisitions pretty well balanced.

[Darklordavaitor]

I don't watch it. I gave it one try and I hate it.
Well, to be fair, one episode isn't really enough to judge something. You probably could of just picked a bad episode to watch.

[gtadbzman]

Untill CN starts showing a little more anime is when I say it's in its "silver age". Bringing back One Piece and putting Naruto on more than once a month would be a start. Maybe bring back a classic like Dragon Ball or bring a new show like Kiba to the network. That's what made the CN "golden age" so great was their diversity of shows.

[soundmonkey44]

I think Its heading towards its silver age...(ecspecially with shows like Cartooninsitute & Action time coming.) now if CN actually Shows PPGZ, & Shippuden in 09...I would say it'll be a very shiny silver age! (Oh not to mention the return of everyones beloved loony tunes!...man 09 is gonna rock for CN!):D :D :p

and to point to the erlier argument in the post...Neither SS, SWCW or Bleach suck...all three our great action shows and deserve only praise...(Or if you don't like them neutrality) I admit there our a few shows on CN/AS I could care less for..& down right hate..But im not gonna dis em (Unles i absolutly have to..LULZ) Mabye im senile..But in my openion any show thats not some Genaric Disney Sitcom, realtity, or MTV production is Good to me (or at least watchable! LULZ)

[gtadbzman]

I think Its heading towards its silver age...(ecspecially with shows like Cartooninsitute & Action time coming.) now if CN actually Shows PPGZ, & Shippuden in 09...I would say it'll be a very shiny silver age! (Oh not to mention the return of everyones beloved loony tunes!...man 09 is gonna rock for CN!):D :D :pI completely forgot to mention PPGZ. If they get Shippuden & PPGZ it would definetely be a golden age for CN. Hopefully they'll bring One Piece back as well.

[chdr]

PPGZ wasn't that good. Just puttin' that out there.

On topic, I like to classify CN into four eras.

Early Era - network starts out slow, mostly airing old H-B reruns.

Golden Era - network at its prime, churning out originals, with generally good fan reception

Decline Era - previous shows trashed, new management comes in with a focus on children

Silver Era - new management, old shows trashed, network starts widening audiences

[Comics_the_QB]

PPGZ wasn't that good. Just puttin' that out there.

On topic, I like to classify CN into four eras.

Early Era - network starts out slow, mostly airing old H-B reruns.

Golden Era - network at its prime, churning out originals, with generally good fan reception

Decline Era - previous shows trashed, new management comes in with a focus on children

Silver Era - new management, old shows trashed, network starts widening audiences

Heh, thank you Cheddar. :)

Clearly the Decline Age was the one to avoid...

[Mugsy]

Word. PPG was not my cup of tea either....

PPGZ wasn't that good. Just puttin' that out there.

On topic, I like to classify CN into four eras.

Early Era - network starts out slow, mostly airing old H-B reruns.

Golden Era - network at its prime, churning out originals, with generally good fan reception

Decline Era - previous shows trashed, new management comes in with a focus on children

Silver Era - new management, old shows trashed, network starts widening audiences

[macattack]

Why would CN cancel shows that pull in an audience?? Clone Wars is huge and TSS is doing very, very well....why would they cancel them??

*coughNarutoOnePieceFoster'scough*

[gtadbzman]

*coughNarutoOnePieceFoster'scough*I know. It seems CN does somethings just to tick people off. I'm sure back in earlier 2008 that Naruto, One Piece, & DBZ pulled in a heck of a croud. I can't complain though cuz we're getting some Looney Tunes.

[Nick and More!]

I'd say we are starting to enter a Silver Age for CN. This is the most I've watched CN in several years.

Chowder is such a great show! Total Drama Island is pretty good too. Plus both those and Star Wars: The Clone Wars have been in the top 50 cable ratings this year -- that's saying something.

Starting 2009 with Looney Tunes and then having the new PPG special on 1/19 ... the year will already be starting with a bang.

[gtadbzman]

I'd say we are starting to enter a Silver Age for CN. This is the most I've watched CN in several years.

Chowder is such a great show! Total Drama Island is pretty good too. Plus both those and Star Wars: The Clone Wars have been in the top 50 cable ratings this year -- that's saying something.

Starting 2009 with Looney Tunes and then having the new PPG special on 1/19 ... the year will already be starting with a bang.Let's not forget the EEnE movie. ;)

[strawberryjuice]

Yes, CN IS getting better. But its not exactly quite there yet....

[gtadbzman]

I'll only say it's CN's new "golden age" if they get PPGZ, Naruto Shippuden, & One Piece. Not to mention treat these shows fairly like there originals. PPGZ, One Piece, & Naruto Shippuden would be awesome on YAH along with the shows alread on the block.

[Silverstar]

Silver age? I would say CN is entering its Silver age when they cancel The secret saturdays and clone wars.

How would CN's canceling 2 of its' current heavy-hitters usher in a Silver Age? That makes zero sense.


Word. PPG was not my cup of tea either....

Cheddar said PPGZ. The anime adaptation of The Powerpuff Girls. Not the same thing.


I think maybe we should try to leave our personal biases out of this discussion and just try to objectively answer the question. How's about it?

[Racattack!Force]

I think maybe we should try to leave our personal biases out of this discussion and just try to objectively answer the question. How's about it?It really is hard to leave personal basis out of an opinion thread. Whether or not you think this is a Silver Age depends on how you feel about the current programming and what's happening behind the scenes. Same thing with the Golden Age.

[Silverstar]

:^:True, but there's a difference between stating one's opinion and flame-baiting. Saying "So-and-so show, while not a personal favorite of mine, is putting butts in seats and is doing well for CN" isn't the same as saying "So-and-so show sucks! I hate it and CN won't be good until they cancel it!"

The latter is what should be avoided.

[Sketch]

I completely forgot to mention PPGZ. If they get Shippuden & PPGZ it would definetely be a golden age for CN. Hopefully they'll bring One Piece back as well.

Back up... No... no PPGZ is awful and Shippudden is well... better than Naruto filler. Nothing "golden age" will come of CN airing either or both.

CN's Golden age was roughly Toonami's golden age. And likewise I'd consider CN's silver age may have been 2003-2006. Or what we have today, what we have today is pretty good. But it's only the silver age if the silver age has not yet passed.

[Dr.Pepper]

I wouldn't say that CN is in the Silver Age now, but its getting there.

[garfield15]

Really? I thought PPGZ was relatively cute for the audience it was aimed for. I did like the OP and ED songs. (especially that "Whoa whoa yeah, Sunshine Powaa" one)

While I don't think CN is in a silver age, I do believe that it is getting there or is at least at the tip. All it needs is better schedulers and more promotion for other shows and maybe 1 or 2 more anime like D. Gray Man or One Piece. I'm just saying.

Regardless, it's getting ratings. I'm no longer disgusted with the network like I was in the Decline Age and I really do enjoy Chowder (though I seem to have a problem catching it). You know, the network is doing so well that if Kamen Rider: Dragon Knight were to come on CN, I would see no problem with it.

[Mugsy]

I look at it like CN Age 1 1992-2007

CN Age 2 2008- current

It's a whole new feeling for me when I watch it now as opposed to years ago.....

[el blacklobo]

Hmmmm maybe I should restate my previous post (reacting of the joy of the possiblities:sweat: ); Yes CN is doing hell of alot better than last year but as was stated before it can to better, sure it has great shows in the comedy and action department.

Comedy: Action:

Chowder Secret Saturdays
Flapjack Clone Wars
TDI Naruto
6TEEN Ben10

But if you want to compair it to it's Golden Age it had...

Comedy: Action:
Johnny Brovo DBZ
Dexters Lab Samurai Jack
PPG All the Gundams
Courage Reboot
Cow and Chicken Sailor Moon
I am weasel Tenchi Myo

And that's only the one I can name at the top of head so it can defenitly improve, I have a good feeling "09" and hopfully it will be the year it can compaire to it! XD

[Old School Toon]

Hmmmm maybe I should restate my previous post (reacting of the joy of the possiblities:sweat: ); Yes CN is doing hell of alot better than last year but as was stated before it can to better, sure it has great shows in the comedy and action department.

Comedy: Action:

Chowder Secret Saturdays
Flapjack Clone Wars
TDI Naruto
6TEEN Ben10

But if you want to compair it to it's Golden Age it had...

Comedy: Action:
Johnny Brovo DBZ
Dexters Lab Samurai Jack
PPG All the Gundams
Courage Reboot
Cow and Chicken Sailor Moon
I am weasel Tenchi Myo

And that's only the one I can name at the top of head so it can defenitly improve, I have a good feeling "09" and hopfully it will be the year it can compaire to it! XD

LOL their Golden Age had way more comparable shows then that. Gundam Wing was way more of a success then ReBoot.

Anyways as said before it's pretty useless to really try to compare CN now to their Golden Age because something is considered a Golden Age for a reason. Most of the time trying to compare will end up with dissappointment and argument. CN can easily learn from their Golden Age but trying to just copy it wouldn't work.

CN stll needs alot of adjustments before I think they can really enter their Silver Age. We could call CN as of now it's Atomic Age of sorts or Pre Silver Age lol. Anyways I'm glad to see I started something with this thread. Maybe CN execs or people that work at Turner look at various websites to see how people react to their decisions and they notcied all the bad reactions before and they're trying to change it.

Also something I noticed tonight was CN promoting TDA already and the ad said Summer 09. I mean I understand it's their biggest hit in a couple years and probably their most popular show as of now but they could be advertsing alot of other things then something that won't appear until Summer 09. If they advertised every show equally then most of their shows might be bigger success.

[gtadbzman]

Back up... No... no PPGZ is awful and Shippudden is well... better than Naruto filler. Nothing "golden age" will come of CN airing either or both.

CN's Golden age was roughly Toonami's golden age. And likewise I'd consider CN's silver age may have been 2003-2006. Or what we have today, what we have today is pretty good. But it's only the silver age if the silver age has not yet passed.Ok.......jeez. Take a chill pill. It's my opinion if I want PPGZ to air so don't get all uptight about it.

[Jayngfet]

I hate to say this but this is no were near silver, were leaving the dark ag. Lets look at a few things:

Anime:Stuck on times about no one watches. We only applaud because its not 5 am.

Adverts: Of the three networks CN's ratings are never highest. We're only noticing some of the old guys coming back. Before we had DBZ, gundam, tenchi. All popular series made better by advertisement, CN went CN even made themesongs just for those seconds. Now naruto, ben10, bleach, and code geas get a clip show at most.

[Sketch]

Ok.......jeez. Take a chill pill. It's my opinion if I want PPGZ to air so don't get all uptight about it.

It was not my intent to sound angry, mean or as you put it "uptight". Just stating my opinion as well.

[Silverstar]

I hate to say this but this is no were near silver, were leaving the dark ag. Lets look at a few things:

Anime:Stuck on times about no one watches. We only applaud because its not 5 am.

Adverts: Of the three networks CN's ratings are never highest. We're only noticing some of the old guys coming back. Before we had DBZ, gundam, tenchi. All popular series made better by advertisement, CN went CN even made themesongs just for those seconds. Now naruto, ben10, bleach, and code geas get a clip show at most.

Well, to be fair, the livelihood of CN has never been solely contingent on how much anime it shows. Anime are just acquisitions to the network, like any others. Anime is a nice side dish, but it's not like CN feeds and clothes itself on anime.

[gtadbzman]

It was not my intent to sound angry, mean or as you put it "uptight". Just stating my opinion as well.Ok sorry. It sounded a little uptight though. :sweat:

[Old School Toon]

I hate to say this but this is no were near silver, were leaving the dark ag. Lets look at a few things:

Anime:Stuck on times about no one watches. We only applaud because its not 5 am.

Adverts: Of the three networks CN's ratings are never highest. We're only noticing some of the old guys coming back. Before we had DBZ, gundam, tenchi. All popular series made better by advertisement, CN went CN even made themesongs just for those seconds. Now naruto, ben10, bleach, and code geas get a clip show at most.

Well the thing is the reason animie on CN and AS had been falling out recently is because on the CN side they were just making bad aqusations and let's be honest it'll probably be a while before CN ever gets another DBZ mega hit for the channel let alone a DBZ mega hit for just the anime portion. Naruto was a hit but people hated those filler episodes and Shippuden may be a little to dark for CN. Now on AS the anime ratings were falling and 1 of the main reasons was they were showing the same exact animes over and over and were expectiong people to watch Inyauash despite the fact they'd probably seen the same episode 10 times already. Not to mention fan subs and animes that aren't in America yet on tv or DVD are finding their fanbase on the internet. The main reason for CN huge success with anime was because A)DBZ caught on like a California wildfire and it already had a fanbase in the millions and B)thr Anime craze was something new to America and CN brought it on with toonami. Anime isn't the new craze anymore and it's just a regular thing now in merica the same way it's just a regualar thing in Japan. If CN wasn't a huge anime success they'll have to get shows people want to watch and gets good dubs of the shows.

On the advertising part that's where CN and especially AS has lacked for ahwile. If the show isn't being marketed then they should hope for it to be a hit. As I aid earlier I know TDI is their biggest success in a few years but they are already promoting TDA which doesn't appear until Summer 09. If they promote evry show or atleast every show they want to be a huge hit then they need to give it those advertisments. With AS they don't promote anime much naymore because as said anime on AS has not been the success it used to be mainly because people can find the shows they want online or AS isn't getting the right shows ar showing the same exact shows over and over.

Bleach used to be in the top 3 every week for Saturday when AS really started turning on anime a couple months ago and that huge backlash happened but it still wasn't pulling in huge numbers. When they replaced anime completly on Saturday they ahd a ratings disaster and decided to put it back on. Promos and advertsing is what makes shows. Even crappy shows that are promoted like crazy will get viewers even if it's just for the 1st episode. The way they promoted Clone Wars as being their biggest event ever is 1 of the reasons it's a success even if it's far from their biggest or most successfulshow ever.

I mean CN is owned by Turner which is then owned by one of the biggest entertainment companies in the world, WB which is then owned by one of the biggest conglomorates in the world, AOL Time Warner so it's not like CN should be short for cash in any way.

[TyUnlimited]

Well... I wouldn't consider it a Silver Age, they still have a few things they need to get straight.(like the live action movie stuff... but it seems to be dying out)

I'd say that Cartoon Network is on a healthy pathway to a "Silver Age" of some sort. They have the potential to see the coming of another "Golden Age" if they would organize themselves a tad better.

[soundmonkey44]

I agree CN has had subpar organization skills of late. But im sure that will change in 09 since they'll have more shows..wich means more varity in the schedule!:D

[Flicky]

I won't be satisfied until they put EEnE, Foster's, PPG, and Dexter's Lab back on the list. Hey, at least they got rid of GOOSEBUMPS. Man, how much I hated that show. :D

[Jayngfet]

Sorry about last nights posts, it was on a PSP and I was right against the limit of letters.

Now a complete list: Advertising shows, as I said before, before, they would make a full two minute minimum song for a good deal of shows, and play promo's more often, for individual shows. Now everyone's satisfied with six hours of anime being condensed into thirty seconds of clips.

Anime, tuck on times about no one watches. We only applaud because its not 5 am.

Toonami, yes, it was a while ago, but it actually would have cost a whole lot less to make an advertisement or two and change the lineups for fridays(toonami never mentioned days), instead they get rid of it without even trying. In fact t's pretty obvious they're trying to sweep that under the rug(no mention of the end, barely any advertisment, at a slot no one watches, reruns and filler no one watches, aquisitions never making it to the block, I could keep going and going and going). It costs a whole lot less to do that and play a couple of interviews than to make three whole new blocks.



In short, it's not as bad as last year, but just because something isn't made of feces it isn't gold.

Live action, yes it's not being made by them, but even just movies is too much.

Organization, when someone makes a schedule they're expected to keep it.

Action, action in general needs more time. We need at least one action show on weekday afternoons. On the flip side, even during the weekday toonami and miguzi days it was surrounded by comedy on it's surrounding timeslots.

Variety, I'll admit they're working on it, but they've only got like five shows playing now every day.

[chdr]

Now a complete list: Advertising shows, as I said before, before, they would make a full two minute minimum song for a good deal of shows, and play promo's more often, for individual shows. Now everyone's satisfied with six hours of anime being condensed into thirty seconds of clips.


They just recently made a 2-minute promo advertising the HHT and YAH lineup. And I don't see why anime deserves to have these long and extensive advertisements only. Comedy almost never gets a promo past one minute, and you don't see me complaining about it.

[Jayngfet]

Yes but it wasn't just anime, they'd promote individual shows before, and now you just see shows grouped in a block.

[chdr]

They still do that. HHT and YAH are hardly ever advertised as a block, they are usually just given a quick mention at the end of an ad.

[soundmonkey44]

as a GOOSEBUMPS FAN I can't help but fill insulted by flicky post..but im to tired to argue so i'll only say this....SLAPPY'S GONNA GETYA MUHAHAHAHAHA!!!!:D :evil: :evil:

But back on topic....Silver age will most likely fully start in 09 I mean Cartooninstitute, Action time new TFA & SS TDI/TDA SWCW BTB&TB...not to mention The possibility of PPGZ, Shippuden, and the very low possibility that one piece might come back.

& I can't wait to see what GOOSEBUMPS epsiodes CN shows next Halloween!

But I digrese Merry Christmas eve eve (The eve of christmas eve..my unoffical offical holiday LOL!):D

[Mugsy]

They still do that. HHT and YAH are hardly ever advertised as a block, they are usually just given a quick mention at the end of an ad.



I've noticed this too but it was good to see YAH and HHT advertised during the "Are you seeing this.." promo's, I just hope for more cool stuff like this and more YAH advertising...

[Mickialla]

CN's Golden age was roughly Toonami's golden age. And likewise I'd consider CN's silver age may have been 2003-2006. Or what we have today, what we have today is pretty good. But it's only the silver age if the silver age has not yet passed.

I'm not quite sure what you mean. I agree that Toonami was a major part of CN's success through the years '98-'02 (what I consider the Golden Age), and that Toonami was also at it's height during these years, but Toonami wasn't the only thing that made CN good. It was a huge variety of things that they had. They had plenty of anime, plenty of good American acquisitions, plenty of awesome and popular originals, appealing bumps, memorable blocks, a hefty portion of classics, and appealing adult material as well.

I wouldn't say CN is in a Silver Age yet.I predict that by next year, we will without a doubt be in a Silver Age; And I hope that, if Looney Tunes does good, it can be projected that more classics will return from their exile and once again thrive on the network. If that can happen, then by 2010 CN may be in a Golden Age, though it would take a lot of work for it to get to the Pax Cartoon Network that was '98-'02. Plenty of things are good, but plenty of things need work. Anime is scarce, the only good non-anime acquisition is TDI (not that I like it), there are only 4 originals, the blocks lack a specific pizazz, and classics are also scarce. I would say that right now, with good originals, one good acquisition, and appealing bumps, Cartoon Network is in a Bronze Age. But nothing more as of yet.

[J!!!]

I'm not quite sure what you mean. I agree that Toonami was a major part of CN's success through the years '98-'02 (what I consider the Golden Age), and that Toonami was also at it's height during these years, but Toonami wasn't the only thing that made CN good. It was a huge variety of things that they had. They had plenty of anime, plenty of good American acquisitions, plenty of awesome and popular originals, appealing bumps, memorable blocks, a hefty portion of classics, and appealing adult material as well.

I wouldn't say CN is in a Silver Age yet.I predict that by next year, we will without a doubt be in a Silver Age; And I hope that, if Looney Tunes does good, it can be projected that more classics will return from their exile and once again thrive on the network. If that can happen, then by 2010 CN may be in a Golden Age, though it would take a lot of work for it to get to the Pax Cartoon Network that was '98-'02. Plenty of things are good, but plenty of things need work. Anime is scarce, the only good non-anime acquisition is TDI (not that I like it), there are only 4 originals, the blocks
There are 7 originals
Flapjack
Chowder
Ben 10 AF
The Secret Saturdays
Transformers animated
and next year Adventure time and Cartoonstitute

[Cartoon1]

I think CN entered its silver age already. They have good shows like Chowder, Flapjack, Batman the brave and the bold, and plus Adult swim, its almost entering the Golden age. I know this dosen't have to do with CN, but I'm pretty pissed that there bringing King of the Hill to Adult Swim. I hope AS dosen't get worse.

[Old School Toon]

I think CN entered its silver age already. They have good shows like Chowder, Flapjack, Batman the brave and the bold, and plus Adult swim, its almost entering the Golden age. I know this dosen't have to do with CN, but I'm pretty pissed that there bringing King of the Hill to Adult Swim. I hope AS dosen't get worse.

LOL AS entering it's Golden Age? AS has been horrible most of 2008 and is just now starting to get better. When cN started declining in quality AS did as well. I don't think AS has seen it's Golden Age yet but if it did I'd say it happened around 2k3-2k6 and.

[DarthGonzo]

I think it's silly that CN isn't even 2 decades old and everyone is already playing the "golden age/silver age" game with it. CN hasn't been around long enough for something like that. You can do that with Disney or Warner Brother cartoons (as many do - most agree that the classic theatrical WB cartoons represent the golden age while the animated WB shows of the 90s represent a silver age) or even Nickelodoen if you try hard enough. Those instances work. Applying it to a television station that's I believe about 16 years old just doesn't work.

Perhaps CN did have a golden age back in the late 90s or very early 2000s. But they're nowhere near a silver age. You guys are moving too fast trying to apply labels here.

[Mini Garbonzo]

It's too early to say that CN is in the supposed "silver age", I don't think 5 new originals and some nood bumpers are going to make CN go into a presumptive "silver age".

Plus I always found this whole "{insert color name here} age" thing sort of silly, wouldn't it be better to say that "CN is taking steps forward with making their program's better" instead of saying "A network that has had mostly sour programing for the past 4 years, is getting better so it must be a new 'Silver Age' for the network!"

[DarthGonzo]

Plus I always found this whole "{insert color name here} age" thing sort of silly, wouldn't it be better to say that "CN is taking steps forward with making their program's better" instead of saying "A network that has had mostly sour programing for the past 4 years, is getting better so it must be a new 'Silver Age' for the network!"

A lot of people feel the need to label things and I don't understand why. It just seems pointless. Just enjoy the dang channel. And it's sad that things have been bad with CN that a minor (in the grand scheme of things) improvement occurs and everyone is quick to announce that we've in a silver age.

Labels like this happen in retrospect.

[Mini Garbonzo]

A lot of people feel the need to label things and I don't understand why. It just seems pointless. Just enjoy the dang channel. And it's sad that things have been bad with CN that a minor (in the grand scheme of things) improvement occurs and everyone is quick to announce that we've in a silver age.

Labels like this happen in retrospect.

Exactly, there's no need to automaticly declare that a network has entered an "age of grand prosperity" just because the programs on the network are starting to get good. Fans just need to enjoy what they are getting from the channel and don't label small peiods of time like some history book.

So to re-answer the question of the thread, no I do not believe that CN is entering the "Silver Age".

[Old School Toon]

People were saying"Golden Age of comics" by the 1950s when the self proclaimed "Silver Age" had began and the comic industry was only around 20 years old so are you saying that there wasn't a Golden Age of Comics by you guyts logic?

[Mickialla]

There are 7 originals
Flapjack
Chowder
Ben 10 AF
The Secret Saturdays
Transformers animated
and next year Adventure time and Cartoonstitute

Well, Adventure Time is airing late next year, so we can't take that into account at all yet, and Cartoonstitute might even come around early 2010, so that's even farther off. Meanwhile, most people don't consider Transformers an original series because it doesn't use original characters. Plus it barely even airs.

[Racattack!Force]

A producer on the show stated that the premiere of AT will be either late 2009 or early 2010.

[Mini Garbonzo]

People were saying"Golden Age of comics" by the 1950s when the self proclaimed "Silver Age" had began and the comic industry was only around 20 years old so are you saying that there wasn't a Golden Age of Comics by you guyts logic?

No, what we're saying is that the whole aspect of "Golden age" into "Silver age" is just meaningless, you don't need to brand amounts of time and declare that a certain entity is in the "Age of This Certain Color" just because the the thing is doing well.

[Ahiru-kun]

Another CN is improving thread? Can someone please explain to me exactly what was so terrible about CN during 2006 and 2007? Weren't those the years that we had Billy and Mandy, KND, Fosters, Ben 10, and EEnE? Also, there was Squirrel Boy and Gym Partner which I liked even though a lot of people didn't. In fact the only show CN aired during those years that I didn't like was Camp Lazlo. Even so, I don't see how CN airing shows you don't like warrants accusing the channel of being at its worst. The only negative thing I can really say about those years it that they were CN's most modest.

And don't get me started on the CN sucked because it aired live action sentiment. That's just a weak argument in my opinion.

If you ask me, CN has not necessarily declined in quality this year, but it's taken a few baby steps back. I mean for most of the year, the channel's schedule has consisted of airing Johnny Test and TDI ad nauseam, and there haven't been a lot of specials or TV movies like there were in previous years. The only thing CN has really improved on is its action programming.

[chdr]

And don't get me started on the CN sucked because it aired live action sentiment. That's just a weak argument in my opinion.
...But it's... Cartoon Network...

[Ahiru-kun]

I understand if you believe that's a sin on CN's part, but saying that it's gone to the crapper just because of that makes no sense.

[Linkpre]

I guess the channel is doing well for it's self. Seems like they are trying to stick with the "colors" theme they are doing right now and they have found a couple of shows that are doing alright. It's kinda cool that Looney Toons get atleast one day back.

I know the usual gang will get on my case about this, but I do wish a few japanese cartoons could get another chance. I'd love to see Naruto, One Piece and maybe even that Pretty Cure show, air along with Secret Saturdays, Ben 10 and Batman. I think it could turn out well

[Mickialla]

I understand if you believe that's a sin on CN's part, but saying that it's gone to the crapper just because of that makes no sense.

But it's not only live action that made those years bad. They took off pretty much all of the classics they were known for, Toonami began to show signs of decline in 2006, and Fridays was cancelled, with the dreaded Fried Dynamite making an entry, along with Out of Jimmy's Head, the network's first and only live action original. The bumps were also nothing special, but I'm not sure if you care about bumps as much as other people do. Also, while you might've liked Gym Partner and Squirrel Boy, other people considered them to be horrid. So I guess it's really a matter of opinion on why those years are generally considered bad, but I personally think those years in question weren't spectacular when I look back at bumps and shows from say, '99 or '00, the network's peak years.

[Blackstar]

And don't get me started on the CN sucked because it aired live action sentiment. That's just a weak argument in my opinion.

I don't wish to open up Pandora's Box, but I really don't see how anyone can claim that CARTOON Network's showing non-animated programming is a weak argument and do so with a straight face. I have to laugh a little when I hear "When did Cartoon Network claim to show nothing but cartoons?" If you really don't know the answer to that, I don't what to tell you. And please, please don't recite that line about "Live action on CN is OK as long as it's good live action", because that statement makes no sense. At all. That's like saying you'd be OK with the Food Network showing slasher flicks as long as they were good slasher flicks.

FTR, no one is saying that the live action crap was the sole reason for CN's decline in the years between 2006-late 2007 (at least I'm not), but one can't deny that the network's losing sight of what it is or was meant to be was definitely a contributing factor to the onslaught of criticism by it's fans. It's just easier to say that the folks in charge of Cartoon Network made some bad decisions during that particular era.

[Old School Toon]

Another CN is improving thread? Can someone please explain to me exactly what was so terrible about CN during 2006 and 2007? Weren't those the years that we had Billy and Mandy, KND, Fosters, Ben 10, and EEnE? Also, there was Squirrel Boy and Gym Partner which I liked even though a lot of people didn't. In fact the only show CN aired during those years that I didn't like was Camp Lazlo. Even so, I don't see how CN airing shows you don't like warrants accusing the channel of being at its worst. The only negative thing I can really say about those years it that they were CN's most modest.

And don't get me started on the CN sucked because it aired live action sentiment. That's just a weak argument in my opinion.

If you ask me, CN has not necessarily declined in quality this year, but it's taken a few baby steps back. I mean for most of the year, the channel's schedule has consisted of airing Johnny Test and TDI ad nauseam, and there haven't been a lot of specials or TV movies like there were in previous years. The only thing CN has really improved on is its action programming.

Well for startes 2006 and 2007 were so horrible and fans hated those 2 years because most of the good shows were either taken off the air or no new episodes produced and the originals at the time were less then stellar. Toonami became a very crappy block and a shell of it's former self. CN basicly made their name seem pointless because they were airing a live action show that was not only very cappy but it was live action on the slef proclaimed "Nothing but Cartoons".

Also most of the shows you mentioned weren't introduced in that time period except Squierl Boy and Gym PArtner and as you said most people hated them but like you I did actually enjoy them both.

What has so many people happy about CN now and bringing up this "Silver Age" argument is because the channle is finally getting good original and aquisations that are ten times better then most of the things they had new in 2006 and 2007. The quality of the shows are much better and some shows as said before are comparable to the shows from CN starting with the originals from 1996-2005 which is by alost of people "The Golden Age" because of the sheer ammount of diverse and quality shows. If CN had stayed the same in terms of quality and diverse shows as they did that whole time and 2006 nad 2007 never happend then the whole "Golden Age" and "Silver Age" arguments wouldn't have started because the channle wouldn't have declined in quality.

People have hopes that 2008 was the start of CN beginning to be similar to how they used to be and hope that 2009 will be even better and hopes the channel will continue to get btter though the years. That was the point of the thread. Another time perios like CN had from 1996-2005 will probably never happen again and that's why anywhere in that time period it varies to most people as the "Golden Age" because of the quality of shows and the channle in general.

[Ahiru-kun]

Mickialla,

There's a reason CN stopped airing classic cartoons. There wasn't anymore room for them. It has kept Tom and Jerry. That's something. I suppose CN could've taken one day or at least a block and dedicated it to the classics. And you're right about the bumps. Like I said before, 2006 and 2007 were CN's most modest years, but I still wouldn't go so far as to call them terrible.

Blackstar,

Once again, I have no problem with CN airing live action as long as it doesn't dominate the channel, but that's just me.

Old School Toon,

In regards to Toonami, as I previously stated, the action programming is the one thing that CN has improved upon this year. And while most of the shows I mentioned didn't premier during those years, new episodes were still being produced so they can be considered apart of 06 and 07. I mean those were the years that CN was really milking the popularity of Billy and Mandy, CN's greatest success story.

You also said that CN got good acquisitions. That's a bad thing. It's one major reason CN has always been number three. What was the channel's most popular show during its so called golden years? Pokemon followed closely by DBZ. What was its most popular show in recent years? Naruto. What is its most popular show now? TDI. And the thing that all those shows have in common is that none of them were produced by CN. It doesn't matter if they were good, CN had absolutely nothing to do with them. Compare that to Disney's Hannah Montana and Nick's Spongebob. I'll even use Adult Swim as an example since it was part CN in the beginning. Its most popular show is Family Guy, a show produced by Fox. It's really bad if a channel is over a decade and half old and its syndicated programming is more successful than its own in house stuff.

You guys say that CN is improving. I say that if this year is any indication, CN is going to become more reliant on acquisitions than ever, and I hoped that the opposite would happen since the network has cut back on anime.

[Antiyonder]

Once again, I have no problem with CN airing live action as long as it doesn't dominate the channel, but that's just me.

1. As I mentioned in another thread, if there were more networks with a regular supply of animation or more 24 hour animation based networks available (basic cable extended at the most), I wouldn't mind the occasional live action on Cartoon Network. But as I also mentioned before, two animation outlets (Saturday Morning Block and Toon Disney) will cease to exist.

Thus leaving Cartoon Network as the soon to be, only basic cable network with high quantity of animation. Therefore I find it essential that they really keep 100% live action to even more of a minimum.

There's a reason CN stopped airing classic cartoons. There wasn't anymore room for them.

2. I can agree with replacing an old cartoon to make room for a distictly new title, but taking off an old cartoon to make room for countless repeats of a particular title is nonsense. Going with the paragraph above, Not many networks air animation, thus compared to the live action medium, we have less titles available to us as far as basic cable goes.

Therefore, CN should really air as many titles as possible.

You guys say that CN is improving. I say that if this year is any indication,

3. It's improving in the aspect that the shows compared to last year are watchable and even great. Chowder, Flapjack and Secret Saturdays in miles ahead of Out Of Jimmy's Head, Squirrel Boy, My Gym Partner's a Monkey and Camp Lazlo.

[chdr]

Old School Toon,

In regards to Toonami, as I previously stated, the action programming is the one thing that CN has improved upon this year. And while most of the shows I mentioned didn't premier during those years, new episodes were still being produced so they can be considered apart of 06 and 07. I mean those were the years that CN was really milking the popularity of Billy and Mandy, CN's greatest success story.

You also said that CN got good acquisitions. That's a bad thing. It's one major reason CN has always been number three. What was the channel's most popular show during its so called golden years? Pokemon followed closely by DBZ. What was its most popular show in recent years? Naruto. What is its most popular show now? TDI. And the thing that all those shows have in common is that none of them were produced by CN. It doesn't matter if they were good, CN had absolutely nothing to do with them. Compare that to Disney's Hannah Montana and Nick's Spongebob. I'll even use Adult Swim as an example since it was part CN in the beginning. Its most popular show is Family Guy, a show produced by Fox. It's really bad if a channel is over a decade and half old and its syndicated programming is more successful than its own in house stuff.
Ratings are ratings, no matter where they came from.

[Blackstar]

Blackstar,

Once again, I have no problem with CN airing live action as long as it doesn't dominate the channel, but that's just me.

I can respect that. Ideally, the right percentage of live action programming on Cartoon Network should be 0, except for the occasional live action host segment or wraparound, but as long as the live action content is a very small amount, like, say, less than 20%, I wouldn't complain about it.

[Old School Toon]

Mickialla,

There's a reason CN stopped airing classic cartoons. There wasn't anymore room for them. It has kept Tom and Jerry. That's something. I suppose CN could've taken one day or at least a block and dedicated it to the classics. And you're right about the bumps. Like I said before, 2006 and 2007 were CN's most modest years, but I still wouldn't go so far as to call them terrible.

Blackstar,

Once again, I have no problem with CN airing live action as long as it doesn't dominate the channel, but that's just me.

Old School Toon,

In regards to Toonami, as I previously stated, the action programming is the one thing that CN has improved upon this year. And while most of the shows I mentioned didn't premier during those years, new episodes were still being produced so they can be considered apart of 06 and 07. I mean those were the years that CN was really milking the popularity of Billy and Mandy, CN's greatest success story.

You also said that CN got good acquisitions. That's a bad thing. It's one major reason CN has always been number three. What was the channel's most popular show during its so called golden years? Pokemon followed closely by DBZ. What was its most popular show in recent years? Naruto. What is its most popular show now? TDI. And the thing that all those shows have in common is that none of them were produced by CN. It doesn't matter if they were good, CN had absolutely nothing to do with them. Compare that to Disney's Hannah Montana and Nick's Spongebob. I'll even use Adult Swim as an example since it was part CN in the beginning. Its most popular show is Family Guy, a show produced by Fox. It's really bad if a channel is over a decade and half old and its syndicated programming is more successful than its own in house stuff.

You guys say that CN is improving. I say that if this year is any indication, CN is going to become more reliant on acquisitions than ever, and I hoped that the opposite would happen since the network has cut back on anime.

Pokemon it's most successful show lol? DBZ was CN most successful show ever to this date and possibly more successful then Pokemon on tv. As said before DBZ broke into the top 20 and 50 most watched tv shows altogether and I don't think Pokemon did that. Pokemon was Kids WB biggest show but far from CN biggest show.

Anyways you're saying it like their original shows didn't get mass ammounts of critical acclaim or viewers. PPG, Dexters Lab, Courage, Johnny Brave and Edd Ed and Eddy have all been huge success and 1 or 2 of those shows have earned emmy nods or emmy wins. Other CN originals may not have been as successful such as Samurai Jack but that earned more critical acclaim then most shows that air on Disney or Nick. What Nick or Disney show has critical acclaim among critics or have emmy wins? I know the viewrship matters but as said before Nielsen Ratings don't account for much since they only indicate a very small ammount of people and not necessarily the target audience or the general public. Nick in the mid 90s to the early 00s was the only channle really comparable to CN in terms of quaility shows. Now Nick follows Disney in terms of types of shows because Disney saw success. The types of live action Disnye and Nick show are mainy horrible and very dumb especially compared to the quality older Nick and Disney live action like Keenan and Kel, All That when it was still good, Are You Affraid of The Dark, Anamorphs, Lizzy McGuire, Even Stpehens etc.

In terms of success I'd say it goes to the merchandise since that's where most of the money comes from for the successful shows and in that case Nick and Disney have CN beat out but the thing is those 2 channels go for a much different demographic then CN. Disney goes for "tween girls" more then any other demographic and Nick is somewhat in the middle between the CN and Disney demographics. Still in any case those CN aquaisations are still CN shows wether they are made by the network or not and DBZ and Naruto both multi billion dollar franchises with bigger WW fanbases then any of those Disney or Nick originals owe their North American success to CN so their success is CN success.