Ben 10: Alien Force - "Plumber's Helpers" - Talkback [7/19]

[Mugen]

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Premieres: July 19th at 10:00 AM Eastern
Repeats: July 20th at 11:30 AM Eastern; July 22nd at 8:30 PM; July 21st at 8:30 PM Eastern; August 2nd at 10:00 PM Eastern

Another episode of Ben 10: Alien Force airs today on Dynamite Action Squad. Here's the synopsis:

A pair of rogue plumbers, a Kineceleran and a Tetramand, kidnap Kevin, believing him to be a DNAlien.

[Net1360]

Some interesting. I'll DVR it and then watch it later today at 3 p.m. (Local).

[Funkatron]

Messed up. So these guys have been sending other plumber's kids to the null void. What do they think they are. anyway?

[zoombie]

Well the voice casting is noteable. Kharey Payton is the voice of the male character is the voice of Hex in the original series. Not to mention he was also Cyborg on Teen Titans, so it is even more of TT reunion.

Maybe there is hope for Hex coming back.

[warnerbroman]

Messed up. So these guys have been sending other plumber's kids to the null void. What do they think they are. anyway?Mutants they think they are mutants

[HEATXZ]

Great episode,Great to see Big Chill again and not Humonagaurs nor Jetray

[Chykin]

I think it was weird that most aliens in the episode were ben's old aliens.

[warnerbroman]

I am suprised that they had a promo for hellboy in the mourning

[Shift]

I'm a bit confused about the philosophy behind aliens here; do they consider "alien" to be a race on this show? Those two were human/other species hybrids, right? So you'd think they'd be more open-minded to other species just being other species. They specifically separated humans from aliens, or DNAliens (haven't kept up with the show, so bear with me.)

Come to think of it, I seem to remember that dragon guy from the last ep refer to himself as an alien, or at least not object to being called one. Unless I'm horribly mistaken it would seem it's thought on the show that humans are separate from all other species for some reason; to one of another species, a human ought to seem as alien as any other species, and yet this seems not to be the case. Am I wrong?

[tb4000]

Yeah, I noticed that from Ben 10 and Alien Force itself...any beings not from Earth are referred to as "aliens", even when humans call them aliens, they don't take offense or anything. Go figure. I guess Earth is a focal point for some reason in the universe...maybe because so many Plumbers are from there.

[Meson]

The races in this week's episode are: Kineceleran, Tetramand, Anodite, and Terran.

Alien means what it means. Someone not from some base race. Race in this series refers to the types of aliens. Everyone is alien to somebody, but because the term "alien" is relative, you need a race to serve as the benchmark. In today's episode the new guys thought they were just mutant humans, and thus, Terran served as the base.

The show also generally takes place on Earth. So, for the most part, alien will mean anything not Terran. However, this is not nesceesary the case for the entire show / franchise, and there have been scenes where the term meant anyone one not from the races present in the goup, such as in "Secret of the Omnitrix."

[vanidad]

I am suprised that they had a promo for hellboy in the mourning

Really wow that is very cool that promo Hellboy in Ben 10 Alien Force :)...

On this episode for me was quite good :anime:... but what bothered that these two aliens believed that Ben, Gwen and Kevin believed they were ill go grave mistake.x_x

[Mala Loba]

Wow. That was worth staying up all night for :)

Now, how many bets that the next episode won't be premiered until the new action block starts in august?

[Mr. Ralph]

Wow. That was worth staying up all night for :)

Now, how many bets that the next episode won't be premiered until the new action block starts in august?
i did catch part of a commercial that said something about "alien X" in august (had the volume down so i don't know what was said in it) so you're probably right

[RonDrakenfan17]

i did catch part of a commercial that said something about "alien X" in august (had the volume down so i don't know what was said in it) so you're probably right

I saw that too, it looks so cool. Some thing tells me Ben will have to battle some sort of deamon with in himself, like some sort of an alien. In the preview it said that pretty much, to bad we have to wait a month for it. But its not to long from now I guess. I didn't really like this episode, Kevin/Gwen hints were cute and all, but its annoying that those aliens got off scott free for ripping on them for nothing. But I did like how Ben was acting all mature like that :)
Ben is getting smarter and smarter with each episode. Can't wait for the next one.

[Paul_Cousins]

Good episode and we learn that both Gwen and Kevin can use their powers in other ways.

Kevin can extent his armored/metal/rock skin to other people he is touching temporarally. And that Kevin is dangerious with just pocket change.

Also, that Gwen and connect to the mana around her to find people, such as Kevin.

I loved Ben's comment to Gwen about her was channeling the mystic ether to find Kevin, "Groovy".

I'm a bit confused about the philosophy behind aliens here; do they consider "alien" to be a race on this show? Those two were human/other species hybrids, right? So you'd think they'd be more open-minded to other species just being other species. They specifically separated humans from aliens, or DNAliens (haven't kept up with the show, so bear with me.)

Come to think of it, I seem to remember that dragon guy from the last ep refer to himself as an alien, or at least not object to being called one. Unless I'm horribly mistaken it would seem it's thought on the show that humans are separate from all other species for some reason; to one of another species, a human ought to seem as alien as any other species, and yet this seems not to be the case. Am I wrong?The problem was a failure of communication. The two rogue plumbers did get the full story on there being other hybrid children and thought the rest were DNAliens.

[Malykoth]

People are calling this a GOOD episode? Did we see the same thing? I've been defending this show to others, but after this latest mess...even I'm not so sure any more. This one was soooo freakin' bad! I don't even know where to begin. What were the Plumbers doing 15 years ago, just mating with every alien they could get their hands on? Someone actually mated with a Wildmutt...a Ghostfreak? Sounds like it was the Plumbers doing all the probing of aliens, not the other way around. I mean, was it a requirement of joining? Are they ever going to introduce a really exotic "plumber's kid"...meaning a totally human one? So, if Helen and Pierce were siblings, why were they two different alien species? Did their family have some kind of kinky three-way going? Would it have been so hard to make both of them XLR8s? Why were her hands different from a normal Kineceleran's? (okay, she was a hybrid, so I guess that could explain that particular complaint). Could the character of Manny have been a bigger ******? How about their AMAZING plan to get the innocent kids out of the null zone thingy...just jump in and "find them"...nice planning, idiots. HOW YA GONNA GET OUT!?!? GAAAHHH!!! Apparently, it's easier to get out of than a wet paper bag. I guess they plan on using moxie and stupidity...which they have in spades. I really, REALLY hope they get better writing soon. The only thing that gives me hope is that I enjoyed "Paradox" so much.

Also...have they mentioned yet why Ben isn't "sampling" aliens for the Omnitrix, like he could in the old series? After this episode, he could have picked up Tetramand and Kineceleran. He could also have had Pyronite, Anodyne, Mechomorph, DNAlien (which it looks like he DID get), that big dragon alien, and the porcupine guy that doublecrossed Kevin. Meh...I guess he just doesn't care about that stuff, anymore. I always felt young Ben was a bit too sassy...but this Ben is such a boring, ho-hum version.

[peterg14]

We don't even know how this Omnitrix works. It can bring back brainwashed people from mind control, but we don't know if it can sample aliens anymore. And don't you get more mellow as you get older? Jumping off buildings and acting first, thinking second is something annoying, whinny 10 year old Ben did, not mature, less annoying 15 year old Ben.

And is the "Alien X in August" episode the season finale or is it a 16 episode season?

[Polychrome]

We don't even know how this Omnitrix works. It can bring back brainwashed people from mind control, but we don't know if it can sample aliens anymore.

Actually, I have a hunch that it was able to do that all along, but until now hasn't needed to. It makes sense if you think about it. Wouldn't it be a disaster if it sampled something that was being mutated by some sort of parasite? (I seem to remember how in the last series we were reminded quite often that the omnitrix practically became a part of Ben, and all the alien DNA would be found in his cells. Assimilating an unstable mutation would make a complete mess of his body.)

If you think about it, there hasn't really been much reason for the Omnitrix to be sampling anything this season. Most of the aliens that Ben has run into are hybrids that were in the watch to begin with and DNAliens are mutated (probably beyond repair).

I think the bigger question is whether or not Ben will regain the ability to change into the former set. (Probably not in this series...)

Then there's the question as to why the Omnitrix changed in the first place. If Ben had the Omnitrix removed, you figure Asmuth (or however you spell it) had to be involved somewhere, and he probably fiddled around with it after it was removed. So will the reasoning behind this come into play later on?

Now, about the new ep...

Once again, we have another ep where I can't help but feel that we'll meet the new characters again. Call me crazy, but in this series, none of the characters feel like one-shots, ya know? Maybe this is all involved in the finale.

[Mala Loba]

So, if Helen and Pierce were siblings, why were they two different alien species? Did their family have some kind of kinky three-way going?

I doubt they were biological brother and sister. It's possible they were adopted, or it might've just been a term of affection.

(As for mellowing out when you get older, for me at least that's the entire truth.)

[Lachesis]

This one was soooo freakin' bad! I don't even know where to begin. What were the Plumbers doing 15 years ago, just mating with every alien they could get their hands on? Someone actually mated with a Wildmutt...a Ghostfreak? Sounds like it was the Plumbers doing all the probing of aliens, not the other way around.

I can't disagree with any of the problems you've pointed out. This was really, really sloppy writing, especially the lack of an exit route from the Null Void. Also, when did Gwen's feelings for Kevin get so negative? Wasn't she the one pushing for a date a few episodes ago? One of my complaints about "Alien Force" has been that the writers seem very comfortable retconning the old "Ben 10." Now it looks like they don't mind doing the same with their *own* show. Gah.

[Paul_Cousins]

We don't even know how this Omnitrix works. It can bring back brainwashed people from mind control, but we don't know if it can sample aliens anymore. And don't you get more mellow as you get older? Jumping off buildings and acting first, thinking second is something annoying, whinny 10 year old Ben did, not mature, less annoying 15 year old Ben.I liked that Ben even made a point of mentioning that at the beginning of the previous Ben 10 AF episode "Beknighted".

[peterg14]

Ah, well now I know for sure.

But still, Ben's a think first, act second kind of guy now. He wouldn't just go "lawl, old skool aleins teim to absorbz1!1!" He seems to now be thinking about how each alien can help him in the long run, and since most of his new aliens are "hybrids" of the original Ben 10 aliens, he doesn't really need a Ghostfreak or Articguana when he has Big Chill, no Ripjaws or Stinkfly since he has Jetray, no Waybig or Fourarms since he has Humongasaur, or no Wildvine or Heatblast since he has Swapfire.

[Chykin]

I just realized something- Manny=Cyborg!!!!!!!!:eek:

What's with all the Teen Titans VAs?

[Mugen]

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b285/Ishtar318/rerun.jpghttp://library.toonzone.net/talkbacks/ben10af.jpg

This episode reruns today at 10:00 PM Eastern.

[GWOtaku]

So I watched out of curiosity, but I wasn't impressed at all. Not by the cliche "no no, he's not my boyfriend!" thing, and not by these two aliens that we have no reason to care about. Always on and on about pierce, pierce, pierce, but the viewer has no attachment to him. Am I supposed to care about a total stranger? And of course the girl alien is cautious whereas the guy alien is loud, brash, and aggressive. And of course Ben reminds them of poor ol' Pierce, prodding them to change their asinine ways.

The entire thing was just very derivative. The whole series isn't like this, is it?

Grade: D+

[Malykoth]

The entire thing was just very derivative. The whole series isn't like this, is it?

Grade: D+
I'm a harsh critic of this show, but I still watch it. This episode was (at least for me) one of the worst ones. Catch "Paradox" if you can...I think it's this season's best episode. I'm hoping that next season will improve, as I like the basic premise of the show.

[PC!]

People are calling this a GOOD episode? Did we see the same thing? I've been defending this show to others, but after this latest mess...even I'm not so sure any more. This one was soooo freakin' bad! I don't even know where to begin. What were the Plumbers doing 15 years ago, just mating with every alien they could get their hands on? Someone actually mated with a Wildmutt...a Ghostfreak? Sounds like it was the Plumbers doing all the probing of aliens, not the other way around. I mean, was it a requirement of joining? Are they ever going to introduce a really exotic "plumber's kid"...meaning a totally human one? So, if Helen and Pierce were siblings, why were they two different alien species? Did their family have some kind of kinky three-way going? Would it have been so hard to make both of them XLR8s? Why were her hands different from a normal Kineceleran's? (okay, she was a hybrid, so I guess that could explain that particular complaint). Could the character of Manny have been a bigger ******? How about their AMAZING plan to get the innocent kids out of the null zone thingy...just jump in and "find them"...nice planning, idiots. HOW YA GONNA GET OUT!?!? GAAAHHH!!! Apparently, it's easier to get out of than a wet paper bag. I guess they plan on using moxie and stupidity...which they have in spades. I really, REALLY hope they get better writing soon. The only thing that gives me hope is that I enjoyed "Paradox" so much.

I agree with everything you said. This episode was horribly written. The characters were dull, the plot was hazy, and they really are shoehorning the whole "lawl Gwen lieks Kevin lawl" bit in the series. This series really needs some better writers.

[Palamon]

People are calling this a GOOD episode? Did we see the same thing? I've been defending this show to others, but after this latest mess...even I'm not so sure any more. This one was soooo freakin' bad! I don't even know where to begin. What were the Plumbers doing 15 years ago, just mating with every alien they could get their hands on? Someone actually mated with a Wildmutt...a Ghostfreak? Sounds like it was the Plumbers doing all the probing of aliens, not the other way around. I mean, was it a requirement of joining? Are they ever going to introduce a really exotic "plumber's kid"...meaning a totally human one? So, if Helen and Pierce were siblings, why were they two different alien species? Did their family have some kind of kinky three-way going? Would it have been so hard to make both of them XLR8s? Why were her hands different from a normal Kineceleran's? (okay, she was a hybrid, so I guess that could explain that particular complaint). Could the character of Manny have been a bigger ******? How about their AMAZING plan to get the innocent kids out of the null zone thingy...just jump in and "find them"...nice planning, idiots. HOW YA GONNA GET OUT!?!? GAAAHHH!!! Apparently, it's easier to get out of than a wet paper bag. I guess they plan on using moxie and stupidity...which they have in spades. I really, REALLY hope they get better writing soon. The only thing that gives me hope is that I enjoyed "Paradox" so much.

Also...have they mentioned yet why Ben isn't "sampling" aliens for the Omnitrix, like he could in the old series? After this episode, he could have picked up Tetramand and Kineceleran. He could also have had Pyronite, Anodyne, Mechomorph, DNAlien (which it looks like he DID get), that big dragon alien, and the porcupine guy that doublecrossed Kevin. Meh...I guess he just doesn't care about that stuff, anymore. I always felt young Ben was a bit too sassy...but this Ben is such a boring, ho-hum version.

I couldn't have said it better myself. IMO This was the worst episode yet ( a difficult feat considering some of the other episodes).
One think you forgot to mention that was just plain dumb was that scene during the combat where Ben shops around for an alien for 5 mins or so before getting knocked out before he could decide what to turn into.

This episode's only high point was Kevin's remark about going to steal their alien tech after they jumped into the null void. (That and that some plumber out there made out with a wildmutt :eek:)

[creativerealms]

[quote=Malykoth;2931339]People are calling this a GOOD episode? Did we see the same thing? I've been defending this show to others, but after this latest mess...even I'm not so sure any more. This one was soooo freakin' bad! I don't even know where to begin. What were the Plumbers doing 15 years ago, just mating with every alien they could get their hands on? Someone actually mated with a Wildmutt...a Ghostfreak? [quote]

Actually not all the aliens they sent into the Nullvoid were plumber kids, just that some of them are. The Wild Mut I doubt is one of the "Plubber kids"

[Mickialla]

People are calling this a GOOD episode? Did we see the same thing? I've been defending this show to others, but after this latest mess...even I'm not so sure any more. This one was soooo freakin' bad! I don't even know where to begin. What were the Plumbers doing 15 years ago, just mating with every alien they could get their hands on? Someone actually mated with a Wildmutt...a Ghostfreak? Sounds like it was the Plumbers doing all the probing of aliens, not the other way around. I mean, was it a requirement of joining? Are they ever going to introduce a really exotic "plumber's kid"...meaning a totally human one? So, if Helen and Pierce were siblings, why were they two different alien species? Did their family have some kind of kinky three-way going? Would it have been so hard to make both of them XLR8s? Why were her hands different from a normal Kineceleran's? (okay, she was a hybrid, so I guess that could explain that particular complaint). Could the character of Manny have been a bigger ******? How about their AMAZING plan to get the innocent kids out of the null zone thingy...just jump in and "find them"...nice planning, idiots. HOW YA GONNA GET OUT!?!? GAAAHHH!!! Apparently, it's easier to get out of than a wet paper bag. I guess they plan on using moxie and stupidity...which they have in spades. I really, REALLY hope they get better writing soon. The only thing that gives me hope is that I enjoyed "Paradox" so much.

Also...have they mentioned yet why Ben isn't "sampling" aliens for the Omnitrix, like he could in the old series? After this episode, he could have picked up Tetramand and Kineceleran. He could also have had Pyronite, Anodyne, Mechomorph, DNAlien (which it looks like he DID get), that big dragon alien, and the porcupine guy that doublecrossed Kevin. Meh...I guess he just doesn't care about that stuff, anymore. I always felt young Ben was a bit too sassy...but this Ben is such a boring, ho-hum version.

Lots of good points there, especially about the Helen and Pierce thing. They've definitely taken the whole, "we have powers cuz we're half alien" thing way too far. And if Helen, Pierce, and Manny are all human/alien HYBRIDS, shouldn't that mean that they were BORN with some human traits and some alien traits. It seems like a stupid idea to have them randomly transform into aliens sometime during their life. I don't get that one bit.

What I didn't like is when Manny asked Ben "then how come you can switch back and forth whenever you want?" and Ben replied "I guess I'm just lucky". That's not a straight answer and it makes people think that Ben has his powers because his alien heritage. Yes, Ben has alien blood, but he hasn't inherited any of their traits. All of his powers come straight from the Omnitrix. Why didn't Ben say that??!! That's sloppy writing there. Before I watched this show, I was really excited about it because the premise seemed good: That with Grandpa missing, Ben, Gwen and Kevin are growing up and becoming the new generation of plumbers. Then they brought this whole "We're all half alien" junk into it and screwed it up.

And speaking of Grandpa Max, what the heck happened to him??!! Yes, he died. But Ben and Gwen don't seem sad at all. Even in the episode where he died, they didn't cry. The only mention of him was in the Grandma episode, and they didn't seem to sad about him then either.

You'd think that with people like Dwayne McDuffie and Glen Murakami, who worked on the DCAU shows and TT, this show would be a bit more stable. I'm hoping they put these loose ends together by the second season, and they should really drop the whole "We're all hybrids" idea. It's terrible.

[Collie]

Lots of good points there, especially about the Helen and Pierce thing. They've definitely taken the whole, "we have powers cuz we're half alien" thing way too far. And if Helen, Pierce, and Manny are all human/alien HYBRIDS, shouldn't that mean that they were BORN with some human traits and some alien traits. It seems like a stupid idea to have them randomly transform into aliens sometime during their life. I don't get that one bit.

Probably akin to the way mutants in Marvel Comics don't get their powers (and accompanying physical alterations) until they hit puberty.

What I didn't like is when Manny asked Ben "then how come you can switch back and forth whenever you want?" and Ben replied "I guess I'm just lucky". That's not a straight answer and it makes people think that Ben has his powers because his alien heritage. Yes, Ben has alien blood, but he hasn't inherited any of their traits. All of his powers come straight from the Omnitrix.

All his *known* powers come straight from the Omnitrix, at least, yes. Perhaps the reason the Omnitrix backfired/malfunctioned so frequently in Ben 10 was because his alien DNA hadn't come out of dormancy. That occured during the 5-year timeskip; whatever Ben's alien-heritage powers are, they're not dramatic and visible like Heatblast Jr's or Kevin's ... but that's why the Omnitrix changed shape and rebooted when he activated it the first time, and why it's a lot more cooperative now. He hasn't gotten a wrong alien yet that I've seen, except for that Brainstorm incident which wasn't the 'Trix backfiring, it just got jostled and shifted a notch on the dial.

Why didn't Ben say that??!!

Because that might have made those two try to claim the Omnitrix for themselves, thinking they could change back somehow. No dialogue to support it, of course, but I'd think it'd be a valid concern.

That's sloppy writing there. Before I watched this show, I was really excited about it because the premise seemed good: That with Grandpa missing, Ben, Gwen and Kevin are growing up and becoming the new generation of plumbers. Then they brought this whole "We're all half alien" junk into it and screwed it up.

Different strokes. I don't mind it, myself.

nd speaking of Grandpa Max, what the heck happened to him??!! Yes, he died. But Ben and Gwen don't seem sad at all. Even in the episode where he died, they didn't cry. The only mention of him was in the Grandma episode, and they didn't seem to sad about him then either.

Not everybody cries when someone close to them dies. Secondly, after all the crud Max went through over the years, I don't think any of them believe he's actually dead ... for that matter, I don't, either. Max is just. That. Good.

You'd think that with people like Dwayne McDuffie and Glen Murakami, who worked on the DCAU shows and TT, this show would be a bit more stable. I'm hoping they put these loose ends together by the second season, and they should really drop the whole "We're all hybrids" idea. It's terrible.

Alien Force is less good than the DCAU shows, I'll grant, but it blows Teen Titans out of the water IMNSHO. I don't think having a unified reason for humans to have superhuman abilities is inherently a bad thing.