Why the 78 episode limit?

[frostedone]

Why does CN have a 78 episode / 5 season limit?

Several shows could have gone on far passed that limit and still have been successful. I am sure writers wouldn't get burned out, unless it goes on to Spongebob/Rugrats episode count levels.

I mean shows like the Powerpuff Girls, Teen Titans, EEandE, Courage the Cowardly Dog, KND and Foster's all seem like they could do well past the limit.

[Draft]

Half the shows you mentioned haven't hit 78 eps. Courage only hit 50, Teen Titans hit 65, and the Eds made something in the 60s

It's actually a 78 Episode/6 Season limit, not 5.

Usually it's stopped because the creators want to move on and usually the ratings go down by the time it hit 78

[Lavenderpaw]

That's a good question.One to ask them. ;)

[Blackstar]

Isn't 78 episodes enough? That's more than enough episodes to go into syndication (the minimum requirement for a daily series is 65 episodes) and yet you want more? Why? Most shows start to go downhill after 3 or 4 seasons, and consequently, the shows' rating will inevitably drop. No show can run forever, you know. Writers can get burned out or may want to move on to other things.

Anyways, it's a moot point, because as Daft already pointed out, half of the shows you mentioned haven't reached 78 episodes.

[Silverstar]

Why does CN have a 78 episode / 5 season limit?

Several shows could have gone on far passed that limit and still have been successful. I am sure writers wouldn't get burned out, unless it goes on to Spongebob/Rugrats episode count levels.

I mean shows like the Powerpuff Girls, Teen Titans, EEandE, Courage the Cowardly Dog, KND and Foster's all seem like they could do well past the limit.

You're kidding, right?

Have you seen PPG, TT and KND in their last seasons? All 3 of those shows experienced a significant drop in quality towards the end; all of the post-movie PPGs were abysmal (clearly Craig McCracken stopped caring about PPG the second Foster's popped into his head), TT's 5th season was a joke (and fans should consider themselves fortunate they even got that, since the show was originally supposed to end after season 4, just like JLU) and KND went south somewhere around its' second or third season. If any of theose shows had gone on and on like you're suggesting, they would've degenerated into unwatchable pap.

No show can go on forever, nor should it. All of those series had a good run, so instead of begging for more episodes, we should be thankful for the ones we got.

[John Dorian]

Yeah, like "The Simpsons" and "The Fairly Oddparents". ;)

[Dr.Pepper]

I think why they do this is because most shows go stale after about 50 or 60 some episodes.

[veemonjosh]

This topic reminds me of those people I always see on Youtube that go on and on about how their childhood shows should still be making new episodes, even to the point of absurdity (one person even suggested that DBZ's 291 episode run was "way too short").

Really, you should be grateful that those shows lasted as long as they did. There have been shows I liked that never lasted nearly as long (Megas XLR, Invader Zim, World of Quest, etc).

[AlienX]

You're kidding, right?

Have you seen PPG, TT and KND in their last seasons? All 3 of those shows experienced a significant drop in quality towards the end; all of the post-movie PPGs were abysmal (clearly Craig McCracken stopped caring about PPG the second Foster's popped into his head), TT's 5th season was a joke (and fans should consider themselves fortunate they even got that, since the show was originally supposed to end after season 4, just like JLU) and KND went south somewhere around its' second or third season. If any of theose shows had gone on and on like you're suggesting, they would've degenerated into unwatchable pap.

No show can go on forever, nor should it. All of those series had a good run, so instead of begging for more episodes, we should be thankful for the ones we got.

Why would anyone not care about there old work ppg is celebrating its 10th annivesary at comic con with a signing

tt fifth season was good they just used villians that were very retro and the focus shifted towards building other members and forming an alliance like jlu it was worth it work the kid flash episode alone .

and knd did not jump the shark

[Blackstar]

Why would anyone not care about there old work ppg is celebrating its 10th annivesary at comic con with a signing

tt fifth season was good they just used villians that were very retro and the focus shifted towards building other members and forming an alliance like jlu it was worth it work the kid flash episode alone .

and knd did not jump the shark

Who are "they"? And just because a creator chooses to end his/her series doesn't mean that they no longer care about it. I have no idea how you arrived at that conclusion, anyone who thinks that has obviously never worked on a single project for 3 years or longer. Like I said before, many of them are ready to move on to new projects, and if they are ready to end their shows and do something else, who are we to tell them that they can't? And why should the creators force themselves to work on a show when their hearts are clearly not in it anymore just because a few fans never want their favorite shows to end?

Wouldn't it be easier to simply accept the fact that nothing lasts forever?

[Silverstar]

Why would anyone not care about there old work ppg is celebrating its 10th annivesary at comic con with a signing

Um, I never said anything about no one caring about their old work (whoever 'they' are). And what does PPG celebrating its' 10th anniversary at ComiCon with a signing have to do with whether or there not the series should've continued? Did it ever occur to you that maybe Craig McCracken didn't want to over-extend himself by working on 2 shows simultaneously, and he might've figured it would simply be easier to just let PPG go since it already had several seasons under its' belt and there was a noticeable slackening in its' overall quality? If McCracken had been forced to continue PPG while developing Foster's at the same time, I could've only seen PPG getting progressively worse (I sure couldn't have seen it getting better without its' creator overseeing it and devoting his full attention and care to it), so I for one am glad he chose to call it quits.

tt fifth season was good they just used villians that were very retro and the focus shifted towards building other members and forming an alliance like jlu it was worth it work the kid flash episode alone.Well, I didn't think "Lightspeed" was a great episode, or even a good episode; in any event, one passable episode doesn't justify a weak and ill-thought out season. Clearly you liked season 5 of TT, but the opinion of myself and many others is that season 5 was trite and a a waste of time, money and effort, which in my books equates a shark jump. I could elaborate on my views on TT's 5th season, but it would be a) just one opinion versus another and b) irrelevant to this thread.

and knd did not jump the sharkYou say it didn't, I say it did. Again, there's no point in debating this, since it would just be opinion VS opinion. As with season 5 of Teen Titans, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.

[The Huntsman]

Um, I never said anything about no one caring about their old work (whoever 'they' are).
(clearly Craig McCracken stopped caring about PPG the second Foster's popped into his head)
I believe that's what he was talking about.

[Silverstar]

^Glad you could decipher that, 'cause I couldn't. Honestly. :sweat:

Anyway, I've already made my point regarding the aforementioned statement, so need to make like a parrot and repeat myself.

[AntN]

Teen Titans is the only show on CN that I wish made it to 78 because the last episode was a total cliff hanger.

Other shows did get boring but Billy and Mandy lasted long enough up 78hours if you count the spider queen movie.
"The Simpsons" did good but no kid show would go that long and a show could either last short or long so CN went under 100 and above 50 which is a good choice

[Jave]

Teen Titans jumped the shark in the season 4 premiere.

That's a fact.

[Silverstar]

Teen Titans is the only show on CN that I wish made it to 78 because the last episode was a total cliff hanger

Oy vey. Not this again.........

Once again: "Things Change" was not a cliffhanger, nor was intended to be. It was a very symbolic, abstract and allegorical story. Regardless of whether you liked it or not, it was not an unfinished 2-parter.

[Bubblegum Girl]

With the exception of a couple of shows (Like Mike Lu & Og and Sheep in the Big City), I find this 5 season limit is much better than how Nick does their limit on their shows. I mean almost every new show on Nick only lasted up to 1-2 season and sometimes they don't even air all of the episodes. :shrug:

[Mickialla]

With the exception of a couple of shows (Like Mike Lu & Og and Sheep in the Big City), I find this 5 season limit is much better than how Nick does their limit on their shows. I mean almost every new show on Nick only lasted up to 1-2 season and sometimes they don't even air all of the episodes. :shrug:



It's a 6 season limit.
I'm curious to see how they'll end up solving this problem when Chowder reaches its ripened age. For most CN shows, 1 Season= 13 episodes. So that leaves us with 6 seasons. Chowder, on the other hand, has 20 episodes per season. So if Chowder were to get 6 seasons, it would have 120 episodes, which I doubt. So if CN keeps its rule with Chowder, the maximum episodes Chowder could have is 60, or 3 seasons. Of course I suppose CN could make it so not all of the seasons are 20 episodes...:shrug:

[Sammie]

I know some shows that CN did not make went past 78 episodes like Totally Spies has 104 episodes or so aired.

[warnerbroman]

why not a even 80 or 70? 78 seems so random

[Blackstar]

The thing is, before I read this thread, I wasn't aware that Cartoon Network even had a 78 episode limit, but if you ask me, 78 episodes is more than enough.

[AlienX]

Teen Titans jumped the shark in the season 4 premiere.

That's a fact.
interesting opinon tt season 4 shifted to using more superdeforms but I liked the season overall also I thought season 5 of tt was my least favorite season until I saw the whole season on dvd again its story arc season made it less enjoyable watching the season 5 episodes seprate and again while the villians werent great most of the episodes were but thats an opinon

[The Huntsman]

I’m personally of the mindset that animated programs should continue as long as those working on the show want it continued, providing that they meet the ratings requirement to warrant further seasons. I’ve never understood how people can claim that an animated program should be cancelled merely because they feel that it has enough episodes. I strongly disagree with episode limits, but as has been mentioned in this thread, most of Cartoon Network’s animated programs were ended before they ever reached any hypothetical limits.

[macattack]

I know some shows that CN did not make went past 78 episodes like Totally Spies has 104 episodes or so aired.

That's an acquisition, though. The rules are different with those (noting Naruto's 140 episodes+ run).

I think there is a good possibility that if Chowder continues on a ratings tear and if they can keep the show creative and fresh CN might extend it to beyond 78 episodes.

Also, note that many animated programs, such as Family Guy, The Simpsons, Fairly Oddparents, and Spongebob Squarepants, which all have long broken the 78-episode barrier (actually not sure about FP but it is close) are all accused of being stale. Naruto and DBZ, for that matter, have also been accused of running out of good ideas.

If they can keep the show going quality-wise and if the ratings are doing fine I think an episode limit should be ignored. But if it is clear the show's quality and ratings are sagging and the creators/writers/directors/etc. don't want to do it anymore, then it is simply time to end it.

[strawberryjuice]

I think 78 is enough. If it goes on too long the quality starts to dwindle.

[The Huntsman]

I think 78 is enough. If it goes on too long the quality starts to dwindle.
Most animated programs get cancelled before they can even reach their prime, yet people want to cancel animated programs outright in fear that they’ll suddenly start to suck once they reach a magical number? I’m sorry, but animated programs don’t get hit with the plague once they reach 78 episodes, or at least not last time I checked.

[Mickialla]

That's an acquisition, though. The rules are different with those (noting Naruto's 140 episodes+ run).

I think there is a good possibility that if Chowder continues on a ratings tear and if they can keep the show creative and fresh CN might extend it to beyond 78 episodes.

Also, note that many animated programs, such as Family Guy, The Simpsons, Fairly Oddparents, and Spongebob Squarepants, which all have long broken the 78-episode barrier (actually not sure about FP but it is close) are all accused of being stale. Naruto and DBZ, for that matter, have also been accused of running out of good ideas.

If they can keep the show going quality-wise and if the ratings are doing fine I think an episode limit should be ignored. But if it is clear the show's quality and ratings are sagging and the creators/writers/directors/etc. don't want to do it anymore, then it is simply time to end it.

I never really heard anyone complain about Family Guy. I personally find the current episodes better than when the series started out. As for DBZ, I never really found the episodes to get stale. I didn't enjoy DBGT as much, but that's because Akira Toriyama, the creator, wasn't involved as much, not because there were too many episodes. I'm not sure what to say 'bout Naruto, since I don't watch it too much, but I personally think action, and even broader, anime series, are more capable of having a large number of episodes than comedy shows. Sci-fi/fantasy/adventure action shows like DBZ are open to a lot of ideas. In a world where aliens exist, you can invent a planet and its inhabitants with the snap of your fingers and BAM, you got your self another season just like that. From what I know of Naruto, the same could happen, but Naruto is a bit more realistic than DBZ (this is only based on my knowledge from the few episodes I've seen of Naruto). All in all, I believe that action shows are capable of a greater number of episodes than comedies.

[DarthGonzo]

I never really heard anyone complain about Family Guy.

Many, many people (myself excluded) wouldn't agree with you there. But lets not drag this off topic.

[Mr. Wednesday]

78? I thought it was a 65 episode rule?

[strawberryjuice]

Most animated programs get cancelled before they can even reach their prime, yet people want to cancel animated programs outright in fear that they’ll suddenly start to suck once they reach a magical number? I’m sorry, but animated programs don’t get hit with the plague once they reach 78 episodes, or at least not last time I checked.

True. I think thats probabaly my problem is fear of thr quality going down. So you pretty much got me with your reply.

[Blackstar]

Most animated programs get canceled before they can even reach their prime, yet people want to cancel animated programs outright in fear that they’ll suddenly start to suck once they reach a magical number? I’m sorry, but animated programs don’t get hit with the plague once they reach 78 episodes, or at least not last time I checked.

That's not paranoia. That's the law of averages, m'friend. ;)

Anyway, it's OK with me for a series to continue after 78 episodes if the series' creators want to go on producing them. If a series enters a period of decline, I will simply stop watching it, rather than to rally for said show to be canceled. The point that I was trying to make is that many creators choose not to continue with their respective series after 3 or 4 seasons, and that quite often they get the itch to move on and work on something else, and if they do, who are we (the fans) to tell tham that they can't? They shouldn't feel that they have to continue working on a show that they're not into anymore just because the fans who have no creative input to the series whatsoever can't bear the thought of their favorite series coming to an end.

[Sam Hill]

Well, I think animated programs can have a good long lifespan if done correctly. South Park, after all, has about 170 episodes, 12 seasons, has been on the air for almost 11 years, and, at least in my opinion, hasn't shown a significant drop in quality since it began.

[veemonjosh]

78? I thought it was a 65 episode rule?

That was Disney during Eisner's reign.

[AlienX]

That was Disney during Eisner's reign.
I think warner bros animation also had that rule

[lemonhead75]

In my opinion, 78 episodes is often not enough. Ed Edd n' Eddy has sooo many potential plots in winter it makes my head spin. Yes, I know it hasn't hit 78 episodes;) Some shows basic plots just run out of ideas after 78 episodes, or ratings start to fall. The creators might simply not want to work on the cartoon anymore.

[Infusions]

Because Cartoonetwork can be smart and doesn't whore out their shows.

Which I praise them for.

I'm glad that if a show starts dropping in quality, at least you know it won't get renewed for another season because it's past its limit.

[Racattack!Force]

It's one of the things I praise Cartoon Network for. Not to many episodes, not to little, just right. And it's at that time I'd expect a series start losing good ideas (as with Foster's).

[BlackoutCreature]

You know I remember coming to these boards around 2000-2001 or so and reading threads with people complaining about why cartoons only get a 52 episode limit (Samurai Jack anybody?). I dont know why but I feel old now :(

[Net1360]

That means two of CN's newest hits (Chowder & Flapjack) will burnout after
they reach 78 eps (Say around about, the year 2013?).

[Mickialla]

It's one of the things I praise Cartoon Network for. Not to many episodes, not to little, just right. And it's at that time I'd expect a series start losing good ideas (as with Foster's).

Foster's wasn't burned out nearly as much as some other shows like Spongebob. The reason Foster's ended was because Craig felt it had had a good run and was ready to end. That's the way a show should end, gracefully and while it still has a large amount of popularity, though just a bit after the peak. I don't know if that makes sense...

[Sammie]

Foster's wasn't burned out nearly as much as some other shows like Spongebob. The reason Foster's ended was because Craig felt it had had a good run and was ready to end. That's the way a show should end, gracefully and while it still has a large amount of popularity, though just a bit after the peak. I don't know if that makes sense...

It makes alot of sense I agree.