Toon Zone Talkback - Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Season 6: Cowadunga

[Sketch]

This is the talkback thread for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Season 6: Cowadunga (http://news.toonzone.net/article.php?ID=23247).

http://news.toonzone.net/images/2008-04/tmnt6/splash-tmnt6-lg.jpg (http://news.toonzone.net/article.php?ID=23247)

Pretty harsh Jerry. I imagine there's a lot of people that would dissagree with this assesment. It's cheesy stuff and always has been but a lot of people consider it good cheese.

I can understand your critism's of the humor (or lack there of) and the plot and such but the voice acting of TMNT even in this season is excellent. I completely dissagree that the turtles voices don't distinguish them. Leonardo sounds authorative (and a bit naggy), Donatello sounds stereotypical geeky, Raphael always sounds like he's fed up with everything and can't make a comment without sarcasim and Michelangelo influxtion is always that off a "surfer dude". The difference is notable.

[Duke]

I can understand where Jerry's coming from. I have the first 3 TMNT releases, but I never finished Volume 2 and barely started Volume 3, and that was after getting them on release day. I absolutely adored this series when I was little, but now it just doesn't capture my interest.

[Tobias]

Granted, Season 6 was kind of weak compared to the other seasons, but it was still a fun season.

Was this the FIRST TMNT DVD set he's reviewed? I'd heavily reccomend going back and checking out the first three seasons for the strongest episodes of the show.

[JerryvonKramer]

Granted, Season 6 was kind of weak compared to the other seasons, but it was still a fun season.

Was this the FIRST TMNT DVD set he's reviewed? I'd heavily reccomend going back and checking out the first three seasons for the strongest episodes of the show.

Yes, I did wonder whether this was a case of a late season being reprehensibly bad after the show had seen better days. The last dozen or so eps of Thundercats for example are TERRIBLE.

I should have mentioned that in the review to be honest, but -- frankly -- the quality of the those 16 episodes is so bad that I can't imagine the first 5 seasons being that much better.

It's something that has dated very badly that, I found, has no redeeming features at all. It ruined my own fond memories of it.

[TheShredder565]

Dude, at least get some of the plot points correct. The rock animating gun, and the laser gun that freed the Technodrome are two separate devices....

Personally, I think this season had some of the best animation of the season. My favorites(Non Shredder and Krang episodes not getting counted here) rank in order from 1990, 1992, 1989, and European.

For everyone who does, try not to compare it to the new show, or the original comic books, and take it as a separate entity that does not take itself too seriously

[CyberCubed]

All I can say is that I respectively disagree with the reviewer on nearly all his points. How can you honestly not tell the TMNT apart by personality? The strongest aspects of the original series were that each of the Turtles had their distinct personalities and they call came together to solve the problem of the episode.

I also don't understand the hate for Krang. The brain was hilarious and one of the best villains for a cartoon show of that era. The fact that he generally said all the main characters are annoying just gives me the impression he doesn't like the Turtle franchise in general.

As for the plots of the episodes, they weren't meant to be taken entirely seriously. The show is just good science fiction fun that defies logic all the time, it wasn't meant to be the most moving piece of fiction on the planet.

I really enjoyed Season 6 when I watched it on DVD a week ago, and I enjoyed most of the old cartoon in its entirely. I understand its not for everyone, and a good portion of it does feel dated, but it did what it was meant to do well.

[Racattack!Force]

Whoa, was that show really that cheesy. I've always heard it was cheesy in a good way, and this is the first time I've heard an all-out bash on it. :shrug:

[JerryvonKramer]

All I can say is that I respectively disagree with the reviewer on nearly all his points. How can you honestly not tell the TMNT apart by personality? The strongest aspects of the original series were that each of the Turtles had their distinct personalities and they call came together to solve the problem of the episode.

I also don't understand the hate for Krang. The brain was hilarious and one of the best villains for a cartoon show of that era. The fact that he generally said all the main characters are annoying just gives me the impression he doesn't like the Turtle franchise in general.

As for the plots of the episodes, they weren't meant to be taken entirely seriously. The show is just good science fiction fun that defies logic all the time, it wasn't meant to be the most moving piece of fiction on the planet.

I really enjoyed Season 6 when I watched it on DVD a week ago, and I enjoyed most of the old cartoon in its entirely. I understand its not for everyone, and a good portion of it does feel dated, but it did what it was meant to do well.

To each his own and all that, I guess. I'm well aware that the show doesn't take itself too seriously, but my argument was that it even fails on that level:

Time and again, the writers write themselves into dead-ends only to write themselves out of it with a deus ex machina. And they do so without the necessary wit required to make such obviously lazy writing enjoyable. It works neither as a straightforward narrative nor as a pastiche of cliché.

If a "pastiche of cliché" was not what is was trying to do then what was it aiming at? Not taking yourself too seriously and failing to be funny just equals FAIL doesn't it?

Krang was my favourite character as a kid, by the way, but I found him far far too annoying to be an effective lead villain this time round. Out of interest, which villains of that era would you say that Krang is 'better' than? Mum-Ra? Skeletor? Megatron? Ming the Merciless? The Cardinal from Dogtanian? Venger from D&D? Dr. Claw from Inspector Gadget? Or even Shredder? He's hardly an A-lister is he?

[Sketch]

You know... when you put it that way. Krang definently comes up short. But he was entertaining none the less.

[Tobias]

Well, it doesn't help that after 100 plus episodes, Shredder and Krang lost their edge from being used in pretty much EVERY episode.

S6 needed more variety villain wise. Maybe if we'd seen a Rat King episode in there somewhere, things might have looked up.

EDIT: Looking at Ninjaturtles.com's episode guide, Season 7 is where the 'Lost Season' episodes (Or the European Tour) is placed, so I'm wondering if Lion's Gate will put those episodes on the set, or wait until after S10 to put it out.

FHE's also skipped over two episodes so far (The Turtles & The Time Machine and The Planet of the Turtloid's hour long episode), so I'm wondering if those are going to show up at some point.

[JerryvonKramer]

Do you know what I mean about Shredder constantly undermining Krang's authority?

The reason the Emperor/ Vader relationship works is because the Emperor is clearly the boss.

Krang and Shredder bicker like school girls all the time, and Krang almost always comes off 2nd best. Like I said, his role on the show is confused.

[Tobias]

Do you know what I mean about Shredder constantly undermining Krang's authority?

The reason the Emperor/ Vader relationship works is because the Emperor is clearly the boss.

Krang and Shredder bicker like school girls all the time, and Krang almost always comes off 2nd best. Like I said, his role on the show is confused.


I think they started losing their way with Krang somewhere in Season 3 when he was actually there WITH Shredder, as opposed to just being stuck in Dimension X for all of Season 2.

The dynamic for those two worked best in S2 IMO: Even though Krang was trapped and Shredder was free on Earth, Krang still held all the cards, lording it over Shredder from Dimension X since he had all the tech/weapons/henchmen, and all Shredder had at any given time was three lame henchmen (Baxter for the brains in the first half/Bebop & Rocksteady for brawn for the duration of the season), whatever he could steal, and his general ninja skills, which brings me to my complaint:

In S1/S2/part of S3, Shredder was actually a formidable threat on his own, using just his bare hands. He'd managed to take out the turtles bare handed on quite a few occasions, and in one episode, even had Splinter on the ropes. By the time S6 rolled around, Shredder was an incompetent joke, although not as much as his henchmen.

[Racattack!Force]

So the show started heading downhill starting season 3...and it was a jump of a cliff? :sweat:

[veemonjosh]

So the show started heading downhill starting season 3...and it was a jump of a cliff? :sweat:

IMO, Season 3 kept going from awesome (Cowabunga Shredhead, the three-part season finale, the Usagi episodes, Sky Turtles, etc.) to downright awful (Mutagen Monster and a few more I can't seem to remember). Season 4 started out with a bunch of stinkers (Michelangelo Toys Around is possibly the worst episode of the entire series), but it gradually got better as the season progressed (at least, the ones that didn't have mad scientists in them).

Though, I recommend that Jerry check out the first season DVD. The first five episodes of the series are still some of the greatest episodes the series ever had, especially since it was at least able to be taken seriously as an action show and didn't go overboard with jokes.

And really, this series isn't supposed to be taken seriously at all.

[Tobias]

I don't know what was up with all the mad scientist/mobster villains, especially since there were SO MANY mutants available to fight the turtles. The writers should have taken more advantage of that.

[Master Moron]

Yes, I did wonder whether this was a case of a late season being reprehensibly bad after the show had seen better days. The last dozen or so eps of Thundercats for example are TERRIBLE.

I should have mentioned that in the review to be honest, but -- frankly -- the quality of the those 16 episodes is so bad that I can't imagine the first 5 seasons being that much better.

It's something that has dated very badly that, I found, has no redeeming features at all. It ruined my own fond memories of it.

I think it was around season 6 that I stopped watching the show as a kid. Even as a kid, I thought the show had gotten terrible. So, I would definitely recommend at least looking at the first season of the show.

[Racattack!Force]

Eww...the synopsis for many 4+ were just horrible. Surprised the show got as many seasons as it did. Should have been cancelled at season six.

[veemonjosh]

Eww...the synopsis for many 4+ were just horrible. Surprised the show got as many seasons as it did. Should have been cancelled at season six.

Yeah, the viewers themselves were starting to realize how far the quality had gone by this point, so season seven was spent trying to mix things up (Triceratons, Tokka & Rahzor, Krangazoids, etc.). But that still wasn't really enough to get people back, so they ended up taking a page from Batman TAS...

And that is why the Red Sky seasons exist. :sweat:

[Tobias]

Yeah, S7 was a step back in the right direction. Dirk Savage: Mutant Hunter, Ninja Land, Shredder Triumphant, and a few others made S7 the best CBS season.

The Red Sky episodes were... alright, but once Shredder and Krang were gone and Dregg stepped in, things started going downhill.

[thundarr82]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles remains one of my favorite cartoons from the 80's. I have shown the first 5 seasons of the series to my younger cousins and they and I simply cannot get enough TMNT. Sure it's goofy, and Shredder,Krang, Bebop, Rocksteady, and the robot ninja are not remotely threatening but I enjoy everything about the show. Well...everything til Shredder and Krang are replaced by another main villain.

[Racattack!Force]

Yeah, the viewers themselves were starting to realize how far the quality had gone by this point, so season seven was spent trying to mix things up (Triceratons, Tokka & Rahzor, Krangazoids, etc.). But that still wasn't really enough to get people back, so they ended up taking a page from Batman TAS...

And that is why the Red Sky seasons exist. :sweat:

Wow. So it copied Batman: TAS for it's last three seasons...that show went really downhill. Down a tall mountain. A tall rocky steep mountain. They were able to climb back up a little during season seven, the it started tumbling all the way down after that. It's just sad.

[veemonjosh]

Wow. So it copied Batman: TAS for it's last three seasons...that show went really downhill. Down a tall mountain. A tall rocky steep mountain. They were able to climb back up a little during season seven, the it started tumbling all the way down after that. It's just sad.

Well, seasons 8 and 10 weren't THAT bad...

Season 9, though, is just horrible. I can't even get past the terrible animation, since it's easily the worst out of all the CBS seasons.