Toon Zone Talkback - "The Pebbles and Bamm-Bamm Show:" The Modern Stone-Age "Hannah Montana"

[Ed Liu]

This is the talkback thread for "The Pebbles and Bamm-Bamm Show:" The Modern Stone-Age "Hannah Montana" (http://news.toonzone.net/article.php?ID=22845).

http://news.toonzone.net/images/2008-04/PebblesBammBamm/splash-pebblesbammlg.jpg

Or: Ed tries to explain why so many tweener comedies suck, and why that kind of doesn't matter.

My wife and I vaguely remembered this show when we were wee tots. Neither of us thought it got better with age.

-- Ed

[PeppeRaskell1]

I thought Pebbles was too much of a ditz (and Wiggy was in the show, too!). In a modern cartoon, a girl like Pebbles could be torn to shreds by the catty Cindy and her clique (if she had someone besides Fabian), while her crazy schemes would have someone like Bamm-Bamm breaking up with her five minutes into the first episode...

[Debbie]

I thought that this show was a lot of fun, myself. Maybe I just have a soft spot for 70's Hanna-Barbera teen shows, like Pebbles and Bamm-Bamm and Josie and the Pussycats. If they'd just put out Josie and the Pussycats in Outer Space, I'd be all set.

[Steve Carras]

I thought Pebbles was too much of a ditz (and Wiggy was in the show, too!). In a modern cartoon, a girl like Pebbles could be torn to shreds by the catty Cindy and her clique (if she had someone besides Fabian), while her crazy schemes would have someone like Bamm-Bamm breaking up with her five minutes into the first episode...
I agree, and even for that time she came off to me as a ditz (but that's what happens when you get Sally Struthers as a voice, I guess, and when you have the hawk-eyed CBS eye over you; if this had only come out in the "Hairspray/American raffiti/Grease" era early 1960s,now...there'd be a winner, only we'd have to imagine the Flintstones and others bewing done ten years before THAT! ANd even then the chrononology of Pebbles from baby to teen is hurried by abouty five hyears! :p )

Back in the early 60s, ikn short, (throwing the fact that the original Flintstoens with Pebbles and Bammbam,m as Babies were still on, was still on!), the show woulda been better written, and Bamm Bamm wouldn't be such a wimp. I could imagine him taking out a guy hittin'; on the ol'; Pebbles with a BAMM BAMM BAMM!!!! (Jay NORTH as Bamm Bamm????)

[Still HowardFein]

[quote=Steve Carras;2834273]I agree, and even for that time she came off to me as a ditz (but that's what happens when you get Sally Struthers as a voice, I guess, and when you have the hawk-eyed CBS eye over you; :p )

While I rather enjoyed the show at age 12, and still find it strangely likable in Boomerang reruns, Sally Struthers' performance is annoying! Interestingly, she did not voice Pebbbles in the following season's FLINTSTONES COMEDY SHOW. Whether this decision was hers, H-B's, CBS', or Norman Lear's, has never been disclosed. (Her replacement must've been very obscure, as I don't offhand remember the name.) Hanna and Barbera must have been trying to make "Yabba-Dabba-Doozie" the big new catchphrase a la "Zoinks!" and "Jinkies". Ironically, Schleprock's "Wowzy, wowzy, woo, woo" got considerably more mileage in schoolyards and day camps. (Kudos to whoever on the H-B staff gave him a Yiddish-tinged name.)

Jay North is almost as annoying as the emasculated teenaged Bamm-Bamm, but the show was somewhat livened by amusing supporting characters and the durable comedy/caper/pratfall formula so common to early seventies Saturday AM cartoons. The Bronto Bunch was amusing, as was Gay Hartwig's voicing of the aptly-named Wiggy; wonder if she was supposed to be imitating then-popular JoAnn Worley? There's some nod to Bedrock continuity, with guest appearances by Mr. Slate, Uncle Tex and the Gruesomes.;)

And Mel Blanc still had most of his vocal strength to perform Barney, Noodles, Stub (with his patented 'nasal dumb' voice) and various animalized gadgets.

But I'm passing on the purchase of this DVD. Now if its CBS Saturday AM neighbor HELP! IT'S THE HAIR BEAR BUNCH were released, I'd probably buy it!

[muttley123]

Well, I for one, am into most HB teen characters of the 70's, so I'm glad it came out to DVD. I agree these shows weren't the best written out there, but something appeals to me in the character designs of that time and the bubble gum music scene.

Since I'm guessing chances are slim to see the Flintstone Comedy Hour, is the New Fred & Barney Show coming up next?

[Tobias]

Well, I for one, am into most HB teen characters of the 70's, so I'm glad it came out to DVD. I agree these shows weren't the best written out there, but something appeals to me in the character designs of that time and the bubble gum music scene.

Since I'm guessing chances are slim to see the Flintstone Comedy Hour, is the New Fred & Barney Show coming up next?

Unless WB starts skipping around, like they did with Scooby Doo. I'd expect Flintstone Kids to be one of the next shows out in volume releases, like A Pup Named Scooby Doo.

[Steve Carras]

[quote=Steve Carras;2834273]I agree, and even for that time she came off to me as a ditz (but that's what happens when you get Sally Struthers as a voice, I guess, and when you have the hawk-eyed CBS eye over you; :p )

While I rather enjoyed the show at age 12, and still find it strangely likable in Boomerang reruns, Sally Struthers' performance is annoying! Interestingly, she did not voice Pebbbles in the following season's FLINTSTONES COMEDY SHOW. Whether this decision was hers, H-B's, CBS', or Norman Lear's, has never been disclosed. !
"Mickey Stevens".

[Steve Carras]

PS I could almost tolerate Penny though.

[Brainatra]

I used to watch this show (when it ran in reruns on USA), and thought it was OK. I might consider buying the DVD release of this show...

Re: the show's reason for being: H-B was riding big time popularity with its previous teen shows (Scooby Doo, Where Are You? and Josie and the Pussycats), so I imagine those, plus the reason for the first two's existence in the first place (to cash in on the success of late 60's/early 70s Filmation hit, "Archie" and its spinoffs) and the continued popularity in reruns of the original Flintstones series was the reason for "Pebbles and Bamm-Bamm" coming into being.

Re: the kids "aging rapidly": Since the Flintstones as a whole is set in the distant past, I presume it's like the various Star Trek spinoffs---when the show's set centuries away from our time, skipping ahead a dozen years in one leap won't make much of a difference. ;-)

In previous posts I recall discussing Bamm-Bamm's "emasculating"; plausible (well, semi-plausible) reasons I came up with included: the time-era's censorship of violence (can't get away with body-slamming someone like that in 70s kids shows); Bamm-Bamm being raised by, well, Barney and Betty (years of "don't hurt the guy", worrying--like teenage Clark Kent---about accidentally hurting someone, and the elder Rubbles' personalities taking their toll?); and that a baby body-slamming someone is funny, but a 16-year-old doing it just makes Bamm-Bamm another run-of-the-mill cartoon strongman (especially in the Flintstones' prehistoric world, where they've shown various others with Bamm-Bamm-level strength---football players, bodyguards, etc.), since if it *were* unusual, Fred would've *long* since tried to cash in on it with some scheme a long time ago. ;-)

-B.

[Old Guy]

I never got into the Pebbles and Bamm-Bamm Show. Probably because the stars of The Flintstones were Fred and Barney so watching a show that had very little to do with them didn't interest me.

[DrTooth]

Quoting from the review:

In any event, I'm puzzled why Warner Bros. has bothered to release The Pebbles and Bamm-Bamm Show on DVD at all. At this point, it will be of interest only to cultural historians interested in the most obscure crannies of pop culture, or to the hardest of the hard-core Hanna-Barbera collectors. Even then, I find it hard to believe that anybody will be able to endure these shows more than once or twice.

Clearly this was designed for Flintstone completists, and not much else. I find it disappointing that they've decided to latch onto a pre-existing retro DVD release success than try to regenerate the older cartoons on DVD. As it stands, they've only released one Yogi Bear and One Huckleberry Hound, and never looked back. Surely there are more deserving HB cartoons that should be put onto DVD. The Atom Ant/Secret Squirrel show for one. Seems like the only 3 series they really made a commitment to are Scooby Doo (no surprise given the popularity of the character- virtually every show except 13 Ghosts and Laugh-a-lympics have been released by now), the Flintstones, and Wacky Races (as Dasdardly and Muttley and Penelope Pitstop have been released). Maybe Tom and Jerry, if that counts (as they were in theatrical style releases).

And a shame it is too, since there clearly have been more memorable HB shows that haven't been out of the vault in years.

[Steve Carras]

Quoting from the review:



Clearly this was designed for Flintstone completists, and not much else. I find it disappointing that they've decided to latch onto a pre-existing retro DVD release success than try to regenerate the older cartoons on DVD. As it stands, they've only released one Yogi Bear and One Huckleberry Hound, and never looked back. Surely there are more deserving HB cartoons that should be put onto DVD. The Atom Ant/Secret Squirrel show for one. Seems like the only 3 series they really made a commitment to are Scooby Doo (no surprise given the popularity of the character- virtually every show except 13 Ghosts and Laugh-a-lympics have been released by now), the Flintstones, and Wacky Races (as Dasdardly and Muttley and Penelope Pitstop have been released). Maybe Tom and Jerry, if that counts (as they were in theatrical style releases).

And a shame it is too, since there clearly have been more memorable HB shows that haven't been out of the vault in years.

Well, as I said, the reason for the lack of Huckleberry Hound releases is same as why Gumby in 1984 got its music redone---the "unpopular" (to Carl Stlaling fans) needledrop music, which was known as the Capitol Stock Music Library for the longest once-upon-a-time, as Capitol Music, (as in Capital Records), as credited as such on post-1991 Ren and Stimpiy's, and has been under a ban due to the heirs of the music as well as the American Federation of Musicians bakc in the day insisting on ("Carl Stalling"-esque) original scores.
You'll notice the shows which you mentiuon that you mention Scooby,etyc.if they USED the needledrop music from outisde, I do not have any awareness of it.;/

There were many composers involved, as I said in previous comments, in that library, including the guy everyone would associate it with, John Seeley, and his partners Jack Cookerly and Bill Loose, Jack Shaindlin, Phil Green, Emil Cadkin and frequent partner Harry Bluestone, George Hormel, Spencer Moore, Jack Meakin, Alexander Laszlo, Irv Friedman (look at several Columbia Pictures TV series like "Dennis", or "Father knows best"), , Jack Belasco, & Dave Buttolph.

To name just a few.

A few (like Jack Shaindlin, whose cues would be among the most famous), are licensed through Cinemusic,m and Cadkin>?Bleustone (Augie Doggie cues) are sold through Carlin (last year's major movie "Blades of Glory",credited Mr.Bluestone for an arranegemnt of Star Spangled Banner), in both cases, sold through Associated Produciton Music. Which Many also like with Capitol mProduciton Music might first remember having seen on
"Ren and Stimpy" beginning again (though it was used sicne beigging) from the second season (which also first used Raymoind Scott recordings..imagine it Warner Bros.had used THOSE rarther than Carl Stlaling versions..)

Classioc Media restored the similairly "tracked-scored" (as they say in TV business) GUmby's, and Warner Bros.Hoem Video is of course larger, so they shouldn't have a problem, but they have sop many more prroperties, and mor epeople proportionately running..
Several of these

[marklungo]

1. I'm one of the contributors to the excellent wiki http://tvtropes.org (http://tvtropes.org/); Ed mentions one of the pages there, http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IdiotBall, in his Pebbles and Bamm-Bamm review. In reciprocation, I've quoted from (and linked to) Ed's review on the Idiot Ball page. Thanks, Ed!

2. I'm surprised that Ed didn't mention that Moonrock (who's actually my favorite character in the series) is a blatant ripoff of the Archie Comics character Dilton Doiley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilton_Doiley). Moonrock's personality, role in the series, and appearance are all similar to Dilton's.

3. Speaking of uncanny resemblances: Does Penny remind anyone else of a young Rosanne Barr or Rosie O'Donnell?

[Racattack!Force]

Don't really see a Hannah Montana in this show. It is pretty boring, it's not even as interesting as HM.

[Movie06]

Don't really see a Hannah Montana in this show. It is pretty boring, it's not even as interesting as HM.

Well if you compare the two shows, they're kind if similar in tone but in different decades.

[Racattack!Force]

Well if you compare the two shows, they're kind if similar in tone but in different decades.
Yeah, I guess you are right. :sweat:

[Brainatra]

1. I'm one of the contributors to the excellent wiki http://tvtropes.org (http://tvtropes.org/); Ed mentions one of the pages there, http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IdiotBall, in his Pebbles and Bamm-Bamm review. In reciprocation, I've quoted from (and linked to) Ed's review on the Idiot Ball page. Thanks, Ed!

2. I'm surprised that Ed didn't mention that Moonrock (who's actually my favorite character in the series) is a blatant ripoff of the Archie Comics character Dilton Doiley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilton_Doiley). Moonrock's personality, role in the series, and appearance are all similar to Dilton's.


Like I noted above, part of "Pebbles and Bamm-Bamm"'s inspiration (and the spate of 70s H-B cartoons about teenagers, including Scooby itself) probably stemmed from the big success of 1968's "Archie" series... which might explain Moonrock being similar to Dilton. Though "brainiac nerdy characters" aren't in short supply in cartoons...

(Wonder what became of Moonrock in the 90s TV-movie era, when the kids had grown up to become adults; working for the prehistoric "Johnstone Space Center"? Working for the Neolithic computer software giant "Microstone"?).


3. Speaking of uncanny resemblances: Does Penny remind anyone else of a young Rosanne Barr or Rosie O'Donnell?


Guessing that'd be "Roseanne Barrbarian" and "Rosie O'Donnellstone" ;-)

[Steve Carras]

Don't really see a Hannah Montana in this show. It is pretty boring, it's not even as interesting as HM.
I hate to admit I kinda agree here in that HM has a great double identity gummick and Pebbles is just standard 1970s "hippie" cartoon fare, nothing more.

(Plus I saw that 3-D flick and got a big, no rhyme intended, kick outta the love star Miley Cyrus and dad Billy Ray (yes, the country singer, y'all, both the same familiar Nashville (?:) accents!) there and some of the antics bakcstage..)

[Ed Liu]

1. I'm one of the contributors to the excellent wiki http://tvtropes.org (http://tvtropes.org/); Ed mentions one of the pages there, http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IdiotBall, in his Pebbles and Bamm-Bamm review. In reciprocation, I've quoted from (and linked to) Ed's review on the Idiot Ball page. Thanks, Ed!

I just want to say that I hate all of you people who maintain that site, because any time I go to look something up, I'll blow an entire afternoon jumping around and laughing my head off when I should be working (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TVTropesWillRuinYourLife). :D

In other words, thanks! (Tho' "Toon Zone" should be two words :p) There may be more links to tvtropes.org in the future, too, and some day I'll have to get motivated enough to find out if fauxshadowing (http://forums.toonzone.net/showpost.php?p=2777995&postcount=30) is already there or is something I should submit.

2. I'm surprised that Ed didn't mention that Moonrock (who's actually my favorite character in the series) is a blatant ripoff of the Archie Comics character Dilton Doiley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilton_Doiley). Moonrock's personality, role in the series, and appearance are all similar to Dilton's. Heh. I was never an Archie kid. I think the most obscure Archie character I know about is Mr. Weatherbee, and when I was a kid I only watched the TV show for the Dick Tracy shorts. I just chalked Moonrock up to being a generic brainiac character, except he's one of the cool kids (despite Penny repeatedly calling him "creep").

3. Speaking of uncanny resemblances: Does Penny remind anyone else of a young Rosanne Barr or Rosie O'Donnell?I definitely saw her as a young Rosie O'Donnell. I tried working it into the review, but it didn't make it in mostly because I didn't spend any time talking about the supporting cast.

-- Ed

[Steve Carras]

[on Penny]


I definitely saw her as a young Rosie O'Donnell. I tried working it into the review, but it didn't make it in mostly because I didn't spend any time talking about the supporting cast.

-- Ed
I see a big similairity,too.

[tb4000]

I remember seeing this on USA Cartoon Express back in the day, and one ep. featured Schleprock upset because he lost a quarter, and Pebbles is like, "wow that's a lot of money!" Now, my young brain could not comprehend why that was a lot of money back then, so I promptly turned it off.

[Movie06]

I remember seeing this on USA Cartoon Express back in the day, and one ep. featured Schleprock upset because he lost a quarter, and Pebbles is like, "wow that's a lot of money!"

...What?

[Tobias]

If I'm not mistaken, the USA Cartoon Express was pretty much EVERYONE'S first exposure to this show.

I was barely ten when I saw this for the first time, as well, along with the various Flintstone spin-off's that were part of the rotation to make the episode count larger.

The thing I loved about USA is that they'd air all the series as ONE package, instead of giving Pebbles & Bamm Bamm one time slot, Flinstone's Comedy Show another slot, and the next show in the package the next. They also ran Scooby and Yogi Bear that way.

[Blackstar]

If I'm not mistaken, the USA Cartoon Express was pretty much EVERYONE'S first exposure to this show.

I vaguely remember Pebbles and Bamm-Bamm when it first aired on CBS (There I go showing my age again!), but the 1st time really paid attention to the episodes and the strories was when it aired in reruns on the syndicated Fred Flintstone and Friends, which was also my 1st exposure to the Bedrock Rockers.

[DrTooth]

Well, as I said, the reason for the lack of Huckleberry Hound releases is same as why Gumby in 1984 got its music redone---the "unpopular" (to Carl Stlaling fans) needledrop music, which was known as the Capitol Stock Music Library for the longest once-upon-a-time, as Capitol Music, (as in Capital Records), as credited as such on post-1991 Ren and Stimpiy's, and has been under a ban due to the heirs of the music as well as the American Federation of Musicians bakc in the day insisting on ("Carl Stalling"-esque) original scores.
You'll notice the shows which you mentiuon that you mention Scooby,etyc.if they USED the needledrop music from outisde, I do not have any awareness of it.;/

Plus the 40 dollar price tag priced really priced collectors on a budget out of the market. Especially me.

[Brainatra]

Yeah, USA's "Cartoon Express" is where I saw Pebbles and Bamm-Bamm (guessing most of the people in this forum, or Toon Zone in general, weren't old enough to see it first-run in the early 70s), but I did recall seeing "The Flintstone Comedy Show" in the early 80s as a kid first-run (the last appearances of the teenaged Pebbles and Bamm-Bamm).

[Racattack!Force]

Saw the series first on Boomerang. XP

[Mark The Shark]

Yeah, USA's "Cartoon Express" is where I saw Pebbles and Bamm-Bamm (guessing most of the people in this forum, or Toon Zone in general, weren't old enough to see it first-run in the early 70s), but I did recall seeing "The Flintstone Comedy Show" in the early 80s as a kid first-run (the last appearances of the teenaged Pebbles and Bamm-Bamm).

I did see Pebbles And Bamm-Bamm in its original run, but mainly remember it from Fred Flintstone And Friends. I barely remember the original Flintstone Comedy Hour (though again, I did watch the re-edited segments on Fred Flintstone And Friends) and did watch The New Fred And Barney Show in its original run. (Didn't they do some episodes which were essentially remakes or rewrites of The Honeymooners episodes?) After that, I kind of lose track, but I too enjoyed the rotation of all three of these incarnations on Cartoon Express.

The "other" Flintstone Comedy Show you mention is a different show, done later (in the 1980s). This all gets confusing after a while. (Repeats of the1972 Flintstone Comedy Hour are also retitled The Flintstone Comedy Show.)

If they keep releasing them, I'm in at least through Fred And Barney.

(I wonder why the USA package didn't include more of the later shows after Fred And Barney. Didn't Fred And Barney, by the way, include a few extra episodes -- they only did 17 originally, but I am under the impression they did a few new ones for Fred And Barney Meet The Thing, and those eventually got "folded in" with the originals. Kind of like how they did a few new Scooby-Doo and Dynomutt cartoons for Laff-A-Lympics, but then WB left those off the DVD set, I guess for hypothetical release later, if they ever release Laff-A-Lympics itself.)

[Eric B]

I also remember it from its first run, but as time went on, and new shows with the teenaged Pebbles & BamM Bamm were added, I lost track of what was new, and what was repeated by the time Fred Flintstone & Friends came along. I know the later "Flintstone Comedy Show" had the new Fred voice by Henry Corden. Unless some of the Pebbles & Bamm Bamm only segments were reused; and I never did pay attention to the change in her voice.

[Brainatra]

I did see Pebbles And Bamm-Bamm in its original run, but mainly remember it from Fred Flintstone And Friends. I barely remember the original Flintstone Comedy Hour (though again, I did watch the re-edited segments on Fred Flintstone And Friends) and did watch The New Fred And Barney Show in its original run. (Didn't they do some episodes which were essentially remakes or rewrites of The Honeymooners episodes?) After that, I kind of lose track, but I too enjoyed the rotation of all three of these incarnations on Cartoon Express.

The "other" Flintstone Comedy Show you mention is a different show, done later (in the 1980s). This all gets confusing after a while. (Repeats of the1972 Flintstone Comedy Hour are also retitled The Flintstone Comedy Show.)

If they keep releasing them, I'm in at least through Fred And Barney.

(I wonder why the USA package didn't include more of the later shows after Fred And Barney. Didn't Fred And Barney, by the way, include a few extra episodes -- they only did 17 originally, but I am under the impression they did a few new ones for Fred And Barney Meet The Thing, and those eventually got "folded in" with the originals. Kind of like how they did a few new Scooby-Doo and Dynomutt cartoons for Laff-A-Lympics, but then WB left those off the DVD set, I guess for hypothetical release later, if they ever release Laff-A-Lympics itself.)

Imagine the 80s Flintstones Comedy Show's longer show length (60/90 minutes) must've dissuaded USA from rerunning it (though they could've reran the half-hour "Flintstone Funnies" rerun compilations of it)... that or maybe it was too "recent" (though they reran the 80s Scooby Doo episodes all the time...)?

[John Pannozzi]

I don't think I've watched more than 3 minutes of this show.

If this can be on DVD, then surely Pinky, Elmyra and the Brain can as well. *hint, hint*

[Tobias]

Imagine the 80s Flintstones Comedy Show's longer show length (60/90 minutes) must've dissuaded USA from rerunning it (though they could've reran the half-hour "Flintstone Funnies" rerun compilations of it)... that or maybe it was too "recent" (though they reran the 80s Scooby Doo episodes all the time...)?

I don't know if that was it, because USA ran the New Scooby Movies in it's whole hour format on Sunday Mornings, where as the Syndicated package chopped them into two halves, like they did with the 73 Superfriends season. It was years before I discovered that SF actually aired as an HOUR show in any form. (Ah, the days before the internet/Cartoon Network)

[Brainatra]

I don't know if that was it, because USA ran the New Scooby Movies in it's whole hour format on Sunday Mornings, where as the Syndicated package chopped them into two halves, like they did with the 73 Superfriends season. It was years before I discovered that SF actually aired as an HOUR show in any form. (Ah, the days before the internet/Cartoon Network)

Yeah, I remember watching the Scooby Doo Movies in broadcast syndication (two-part half-hour episodes), as well... didn't know (or forgot) that USA aired it for a whole hour on Sundays (probably since I usually watched local broadcast TV stations' Sunday morning cartoon lineups and/or was at church on Sunday mornings).

[marklungo]

I just want to say that I hate all of you people who maintain that site, because any time I go to look something up, I'll blow an entire afternoon jumping around and laughing my head off when I should be working (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TVTropesWillRuinYourLife). :D

I'll have to mention this on the TV Tropes forum (http://tvtropes.org/phpbb3/). Thanks for sharing! :)

In other words, thanks! (Tho' "Toon Zone" should be two words :p)

Fixed.

There may be more links to tvtropes.org in the future, too, and some day I'll have to get motivated enough to find out if fauxshadowing (http://forums.toonzone.net/showpost.php?p=2777995&postcount=30) is already there or is something I should submit.

Feel free to join up and contribute (if you haven't already). We'd love to have you!

I just chalked Moonrock up to being a generic brainiac character, except he's one of the cool kids (despite Penny repeatedly calling him "creep").

That was another thing (besides Pebbles' aforementioned stupidity) that bothered me about the show as a kid. I don't remember Moonrock ever doing anything to deserve being called a creep. (If I'm wrong, please correct me!)

Finally, one bit of amusing trivia: There was a punk band called Schleprock in the mid-90s.