1 in 4 teenage girls has an STD (Adult Content) [Archive]

tb4000

03-11-2008, 08:56 PM

1 in 4 Teen Girls Has Sexual Disease

By LINDSEY TANNER – 8 hours ago
CHICAGO (AP) — At least one in four teenage girls nationwide has a sexually transmitted disease, or more than 3 million teens, according to the first study of its kind in this age group.
A virus that causes cervical cancer is by far the most common sexually transmitted infection in teen girls aged 14 to 19, while the highest overall prevalence is among black girls — nearly half the blacks studied had at least one STD. That rate compared with 20 percent among both whites and Mexican-American teens, the study from the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found.
About half of the girls acknowledged ever having sex; among them, the rate was 40 percent. While some teens define sex as only intercourse, other types of intimate behavior including oral sex can spread some infections.
For many, the numbers likely seem "overwhelming because you're talking about nearly half of the sexually experienced teens at any one time having evidence of an STD," said Dr. Margaret Blythe, an adolescent medicine specialist at Indiana University School of Medicine and head of the American Academy of Pediatrics' committee on adolescence.
But the study highlights what many doctors who treat teens see every day, Blythe said.
Dr. John Douglas, director of the CDC's division of STD prevention, said the results are the first to examine the combined national prevalence of common sexually transmitted diseases among adolescent girls. He said the data, from 2003-04, likely reflect current rates of infection.
"High STD rates among young women, particularly African-American young women, are clear signs that we must continue developing ways to reach those most at risk," Douglas said.
The CDC's Dr. Kevin Fenton said given that STDs can cause infertility and cervical cancer in women, "screening, vaccination and other prevention strategies for sexually active women are among our highest public health priorities."
The study by CDC researcher Dr. Sara Forhan is an analysis of nationally representative data on 838 girls who participated in a 2003-04 government health survey. Teens were tested for four infections: human papillomavirus, or HPV, which can cause cervical cancer and affected 18 percent of girls studied; chlamydia, which affected 4 percent; trichomoniasis, 2.5 percent; and herpes simplex virus, 2 percent.
Blythe said the results are similar to previous studies examining rates of those diseases individually.
The results were prepared for release Tuesday at a CDC conference in Chicago on preventing sexually transmitted diseases.
HPV can cause genital warts but often has no symptoms. A vaccine targeting several HPV strains recently became available, but Douglas said it likely has not yet had much impact on HPV prevalence rates in teen girls.
Chlamydia and trichomoniasis can be treated with antibiotics. The CDC recommends annual chlamydia screening for all sexually active women under age 25. It also recommends the three-dose HPV vaccine for girls aged 11-12 years, and catch-up shots for females aged 13 to 26.
The American Academy of Pediatrics has similar recommendations.
Douglas said screening tests are underused in part because many teens don't think they're at risk, but also, some doctors mistakenly think, '"Sexually transmitted diseases don't happen to the kinds of patients I see.'"
Blythe said some doctors also are reluctant to discuss STDs with teen patients or offer screening because of confidentiality concerns, knowing parents would have to be told of the results.
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Watch yourselves, kiddies.

Zeonic Freak

03-11-2008, 09:48 PM

Hanshotfirst113

03-11-2008, 09:56 PM

So, it sorta pays to be a virgin to say the least.

But wait a sec, isnt there a study on guys? And are guys the most sexually active? I wouldnt be surprised to see the numbers on the guy DOUBLE than the girls...

That double standard has always bothered me in this sense: the math doesn't add up. If guys are sleeping around (i.e., I guy is a stud, a girl is a slut, the old unfair double standard)...then who are the men sleeping with? The math doesn't make any sense to me. Still, sad to hear about all of that. Still a virgin, and this is all the more reason to remain so.

mookie75

03-11-2008, 09:59 PM

Thankfully, I'm much too old to be chasing teenagers. It does make me wonder what the rate was for people my age when we were teenagers though.

Hanshotfirst113

03-11-2008, 10:03 PM

I'd guess that it's higher today, but that's just my guess.

XOMiss_Samantha

03-11-2008, 10:04 PM

But wait a sec, isnt there a study on guys? And are guys the most sexually active? I wouldnt be surprised to see the numbers on the guy DOUBLE than the girls...

There should be. There's a very large number of gay men who contract STD's at the same rate as these sexually active girls, since sleeping around for them has no risk of pregnancy. *yaoi knowledge and research* It's quite common.
Like wise, teenage girls these days don't even seem to care about that anymore either, considering this year alone 5 kids had to leave my highschool because of their pregnancy.
It's sad that now a days sex has become so common place that it's considered perfectly normal to do with just about anybody who you can do it with. What ever happened to being in love? or at least- using a condom!?

Hanshotfirst113

03-11-2008, 10:07 PM

XOMiss_Samantha

03-11-2008, 10:10 PM

Um, not to be a squeaky wheel here, but wouldn't this apply to heterosexual men too?

Yes but alot of homosexual men have very large amounts of sex with whom ever they choose, more than heterosexual men do, or at least, that's what I heard. I used to have an article all about this, maybe I can find it.
But the % goes up each year just the same because there is no risk of pregnancy that they would have to worry about. It's seen as simply casual in some instances. I'm not saying this holds true for everybody, but I've heard first hand stories about cases where this has happened.

Zeonic Freak

03-11-2008, 10:49 PM

There should be. There's a very large number of gay men who contract STD's at the same rate as these sexually active girls, since sleeping around for them has no risk of pregnancy. *yaoi knowledge and research* It's quite common.
Like wise, teenage girls these days don't even seem to care about that anymore either, considering this year alone 5 kids had to leave my highschool because of their pregnancy.
It's sad that now a days sex has become so common place that it's considered perfectly normal to do with just about anybody who you can do it with. What ever happened to being in love? or at least- using a condom!?

Yea, i never really said my comment was directed to gay men. But since you brought that up, yea STD do travel around homosexuals. I know STD's were brought up during the 80's by Regans wife for the "scared straight" message on guys.

Yea, ill admit im still a virgin, and i wonder the next girl i go out with has "some milage left on her"...

Harvey Two Face

03-12-2008, 12:30 AM

I'm surprised it's one in four, I thought it would of been less common, I guess it depends who you hang around, man it sucks being a teenager.

The Guitar Slayer

03-12-2008, 01:18 AM

HPV generally doesn't have external/noticeable symptoms usually until the girl gets cancer from one of the strains that can produce cancer or warts from one of the two strains that can cause the symptom. It's the most prevalent STD, period, with about 25% of the total population having it.

Sex used to have more weight than it does now. It used to have moral implications rather than just a coming of age thing. Unfortunately, while preaching the good of sex and the sex revolution -- that it is natural and rather fun -- we've also lost track of the consequences. Babies are not the worst thing that can happen to you. Can you say "cancer?" "Sterile?" "HIV?" "AIDS?"

Kids, keep your legs closed til you're out of high school. It's a lot more fun when you're smarter, older, and not living in your mom's basement.

sdp

03-12-2008, 01:19 AM

It's sad that now a days sex has become so common place that it's considered perfectly normal to do with just about anybody who you can do it with. What ever happened to being in love? or at least- using a condom!?

How is sex not normal?

Didn't see the article mentioning that this was love-less sex..

Studies like these are irrelevant though I still remember one about every 16 people there is one with HIV. It doesn't mean every 16 people you see one is infected they aren't literal or that correct.

Anarky

03-12-2008, 02:00 AM

I guess the millenials missed out on the A.I.D.S and STD fear campaign. My generation was taught to have a healthy fear of such diseases. A word of advice: don't get intimate until you see a clean bill of health and a FICO score.

Master Moron

03-12-2008, 02:45 AM

So, it sorta pays to be a virgin to say the least.

But wait a sec, isnt there a study on guys? And are guys the most sexually active? I wouldnt be surprised to see the numbers on the guy DOUBLE than the girls...

Generally, there is less risk of infection if you're a heterosexual guy than if you're a heterosexual girl. Guys ejaculate semen into the girl, so there is a greater risk of infection for the girl. While some girls can ejaculate vaginal fluid, it usually doesn't enter the male's body. This is also the reason why homosexual men tend to have a greater risk of infection than heterosexual men, since they both give and receive bodily fluid during sex. Whereas lesbians tend to have the least risk of infection, since there is rarely transfer of bodily fluids during lesbian sex.

Anyway, this has to be a great day to be a nerd in high school. Sure, that hot cheerleader turned you down and blogged about how you're a huge dork on her myspace page, but hey, she has an STD.

XOMiss_Samantha

03-12-2008, 06:01 AM

};2805502']How is sex not normal?

Didn't see the article mentioning that this was love-less sex..

I'm sure most of the girls in the article have more than one partner which is how the contracted STD's. You know, fooling around with guys.
I doubt there any sense of love in there. I didn't say sex wasn't normal, I'm saying that it's now considered common to have multiple sex partners instead of just one nice boyfriend.

Antiyonder

03-12-2008, 06:13 AM

I'm sure most of the girls in the article have more than one partner which is how the contracted STD's. You know, fooling around with guys.
I doubt there any sense of love in there. I didn't say sex wasn't normal, I'm saying that it's now considered common to have multiple sex partners instead of just one nice boyfriend.

Which can be attributed to peer pressure. Whether boy/girl, classmates and/or fellow employees will make you (not you speciifcally) feel inadequate for not jumping into bed with the opposite sex.

Zeonic Freak

03-12-2008, 10:16 AM

Generally, there is less risk of infection if you're a heterosexual guy than if you're a heterosexual girl. Guys ejaculate semen into the girl, so there is a greater risk of infection for the girl. While some girls can ejaculate vaginal fluid, it usually doesn't enter the male's body. This is also the reason why homosexual men tend to have a greater risk of infection than heterosexual men, since they both give and receive bodily fluid during sex. Whereas lesbians tend to have the least risk of infection, since there is rarely transfer of bodily fluids during lesbian sex.

Anyway, this has to be a great day to be a nerd in high school. Sure, that hot cheerleader turned you down and blogged about how you're a huge dork on her myspace page, but hey, she has an STD.

So you can walk up to her with pride and say "TAKE THAT YOU HOE HAHAHA" No, im JK.:anime:

So basicly if i do "get it on" with a girl with a horny past history, chances are somewhat in my favor to not get a disease? Ill take my chances with a clean one, well since im clean also.

Also good info, probably more than what ive heard/need to hear, but you learn something everyday...

Dr.Pepper

03-12-2008, 12:39 PM

That's a lot of people. What is the matter with the world today?

PC!

03-12-2008, 03:06 PM

The sad thing is, the stats don't include all the girls having sex who DON'T have an STD. I'd imagine that number is significantly higher.

Darklordavaitor

03-12-2008, 05:05 PM

Dang, and I did 1/4th of the girls at my school.

Master Moron

03-12-2008, 07:33 PM

I'm sure most of the girls in the article have more than one partner which is how the contracted STD's. You know, fooling around with guys.
I doubt there any sense of love in there. I didn't say sex wasn't normal, I'm saying that it's now considered common to have multiple sex partners instead of just one nice boyfriend.

That's not necessarily true. Girls are more likely to have sex without a condom with their boyfriend, as opposed to a random partner. Having sex without a condom is more likely to get you an STD. I think many girls greatly underestimate the risk of infection from having sex with their boyfriends.

Hanshotfirst113

03-13-2008, 02:26 PM

That's not necessarily true. Girls are more likely to have sex without a condom with their boyfriend, as opposed to a random partner. Having sex without a condom is more likely to get you an STD. I think many girls greatly underestimate the risk of infection from having sex with their boyfriends.

Why would you say so? As long as they remain faithful and aren't cheating, why would the risk be higher?

Captain Zechs

03-13-2008, 02:46 PM

Some STDs don't affect guys in the least, we are just carriers...so, even then it still isn't wise to have sex without a condom.

Lavenderpaw

03-13-2008, 03:43 PM

Just because a gal has an STD doesn't mean it's active.It can lie dormant until the violation of viriginity or,you know,sex.Then it spreads.Same with males.I don't know why girls have to get the raw end of the deal.I'M one. :p

Hanshotfirst113

03-13-2008, 04:22 PM

Just because a gal has an STD doesn't mean it's active.It can lie dormant until the violation of virginity

Um, that doesn't make sense; if you haven't had sex...how can you have an STD?

or,you know,sex.

That has a certain inarguable logic.

Then it spreads.Same with males.

Hmm. That makes more sense.

I don't know why girls have to get the raw end of the deal.I'M one. :p

They always seem to get the raw end of just about everything.

Antiyonder

03-13-2008, 04:30 PM

That's a lot of people. What is the matter with the world today?

As I've said before, peer pressure. They're not having sex to please themselves, but to impress their buddies.

The Guitar Slayer

03-13-2008, 04:32 PM

Zechs and Lavender-- false info, honeys.

Firstly, while guys are carriers, it may not manifest externally. Internally, however, it will wreak havoc. You may develop urinary difficulties or impotency. More severe infections may result sterility. Syphilis can also rot your brain; just ask Al Capone. Just because you can't see it yet doesn't mean it's not there.

As for girls, while it possible to have a yeast or bacteria infection without sex, they are not STDs. A partner can catch them, but not exclusively with sexual contact. Usually, due to the sensitive environment, girls notice pretty fast if they have an infection down south. People can also get yeast infections in the mouth without having anything to do with sex.

Speedy Boris

03-13-2008, 05:07 PM

Pretty sad statistic, not so much due to the high amount of sex (because it's arguable that other generations have had lots of sex as teens, not just this one) but that the disease rate is that high. Yet it doesn't seem to deter people, I guess.

Master Moron

03-13-2008, 05:55 PM

Why would you say so? As long as they remain faithful and aren't cheating, why would the risk be higher?

Because they're more likely to have sex without a condom with their boyfriend as opposed to a guy who they're not dating.

Um, that doesn't make sense; if you haven't had sex...how can you have an STD?

An STD is a disease that can be transmitted sexually. It doesn't have to be transmitted sexually. For instance, HIV, crabs, and the happies can all be transmitted nonsexually.

Zechs and Lavender-- false info, honeys.

Firstly, while guys are carriers, it may not manifest externally. Internally, however, it will wreak havoc. You may develop urinary difficulties or impotency. More severe infections may result sterility. Syphilis can also rot your brain; just ask Al Capone. Just because you can't see it yet doesn't mean it's not there.

As for girls, while it possible to have a yeast or bacteria infection without sex, they are not STDs. A partner can catch them, but not exclusively with sexual contact. Usually, due to the sensitive environment, girls notice pretty fast if they have an infection down south. People can also get yeast infections in the mouth without having anything to do with sex.

Actually, a yeast infection is considered an STD.

Dr.Pepper

03-13-2008, 06:26 PM

Um, that doesn't make sense; if you haven't had sex...how can you have an STD
You can be born with AIDS

PRdude

03-13-2008, 07:00 PM

You can be born with AIDS

And of course, through a blood transfusion.

Darklordavaitor

03-13-2008, 07:02 PM

And of course, through a blood transfusion.
Which I can totally see teenage girls do in their free time.

Angilasman

03-13-2008, 07:05 PM

Hanshotfirst113

03-13-2008, 08:04 PM

And of course, through a blood transfusion.

Isn't that much rarer today?

Antiyonder

03-13-2008, 08:31 PM

BTW, the reason kids are having sex isn't soley the blame of peer presure or the media. It's two million years of human evolution that's telling 15-year-olds that it's time to reproduce (as well as reinforce social bonds), which would be the thing to do if we didn't have an industrial revolution and a much longer life expectancy.

I'm not saying that peer pressure is the sole cause, but it certainly contributes to people rushing into sex. Fact of the matter is that the general public focuses more on pleasing others than living for themselves.

GregX

03-13-2008, 09:33 PM

XOMiss_Samantha

03-13-2008, 09:39 PM

I'm sorry, but I'm calling BS on that article. What are they basing any of this on? I've been sexually active since I was sixteen, and so have most people I know. I don't know anyone personally who has a STD..

I'm in high school now, and while I'm not sexually active, I know about 10 people with STDs, or who have had STDs in the past. That's not counting the pregnant ones, too. It's shocking because looking at the place, you wouldn't suspect that most of the students are going out every weekend to get 'hammered' and fool around.
Small town valley life = lots of sex and lots of alcohol.

Deadman

03-13-2008, 09:49 PM

man that is both sad and very bad.

Marinite

03-13-2008, 09:54 PM

With the rate humanity continues to decline, pretty much everyone will have an STD in 20-50 years.

Kagetsu

03-13-2008, 10:18 PM

So, it sorta pays to be a virgin to say the least.

But wait a sec, isnt there a study on guys? And are guys the most sexually active? I wouldnt be surprised to see the numbers on the guy DOUBLE than the girls...True but any contact between creatures with similar DNA spreads virus, it's just the way the world works.

There should be. There's a very large number of gay men who contract STD's at the same rate as these sexually active girls,
Not really. Most STD are not spread homosexually until AIDS appeared, and because of the way it infects, it spreads best by intravenous contact and male homosexuality. Think effective suppositories and you have the idea. The Cervical cancer fear is like being in the sun causes skin cancer. Everyone is in contact with it sooner or later.
Just because a gal has an STD doesn't mean it's active.It can lie dormant until the violation of viriginity or,you know,sex.Then it spreads.Same with males.I don't know why girls have to get the raw end of the deal.I'M one. :p
Whoa, where'd you hear that. Except for 'crabs" aka body lice (and you still have to come into contact with the critters because they can not live long anywhere but the human body), STD's are spread only one way, through human contact. You can't spontaneously have it first. Herpes can be dormant, but it was first caught from someone else. If you're a virgin (male or female), haven't slept in an infected bed (full of critters, and they can be gotten rid of easily enough, but you'll have to shave everything), or used infected needles, you ain't got any of this stuff.

Strangely, us nerds have nothing to worry about. Beautiful twist, ain't it?

One of my interests is microbiology, so I know what I'm talking about.

Draft

03-13-2008, 10:39 PM

Looking at the people at my school, I can see that. Though I don't know anyone personally in my school who has an STD (I'm very anti-social), i've heard things such as a middle schooler being preganant in a school near me..

1 in 4 does seem like a lot though

Captain Zechs

03-13-2008, 11:16 PM

Zechs and Lavender-- false info, honeys.

Remember that talk about calling you sweetie? Or whatever it was...if I can't call you that, then you can't call me honey ;).

And anyone can be a carrier, but I am pretty sure that guys tend to be the ones, especially with HPV, and it doesn't affect them. Being a carrier doesn't have any real affects on you, just your partner(s) that you are infecting. I could be wrong...but my mind says otherwise.

PRdude

03-13-2008, 11:26 PM

Isn't that much rarer today?

Perhaps, but it IS one of those ways that AIDS can be transfered to a person without intercourse being involved.

Master Moron

03-14-2008, 01:44 AM

I'm sorry, but I'm calling BS on that article. What are they basing any of this on? I've been sexually active since I was sixteen, and so have most people I know. I don't know anyone personally who has a STD.

But to those out there, put on a damn condom. And no, preaching abstinence doesn't work. My High School had a former nun teach "Health" class and sex education, so trust me, I know what I'm talking about.

Two points. One, most people who have STDs don't announce it. Two, as you pointed out, you use condoms. Many girls do not use condoms with their boyfriends, mistakenly thinking that there's no risk.

The Guitar Slayer

03-14-2008, 02:54 AM

Actually, a yeast infection is considered an STD.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_a_yeast_infection_an_STD

Nope. This condenses it, but the CDC also states that sexual transmission is rare. It is not considered an STD, but rather a fungus. However, when someone does have an STD, particularly a girl, the ecosystem in the vagina is thrown for a loop, letting the yeast population explode unchecked. The same antibiotics that a girl takes for her STD are the same ones that kill "good" bacteria. Without good bacteria, the yeast doesn't have any competition and can run rampant. As a result, yeast infections and STDs can feed off each other. They're like kissing cousins, but no, yeast infections are not STDs technically. They can be transmitted sexually, but so can the common cold, the flu, et al; the body fluid swap does not automatically mean that it's an STD.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dbmd/diseaseinfo/candidiasis_gen_g.htm

As mentioned before, I rarely hear people proudly talk about their STDs in public. Sort of like how they don't talk about their erectile dysfunction or their dental work. As a result, a confidential, anonymous study is more accurate that one that will name names. How many of these kids would admit to having sex, let alone a disease, if they thought their parents could prove their identity?

Hanshotfirst113

03-14-2008, 10:27 AM

How many of these kids would admit to having sex?

You'd be surprised. It's a bragging point for lots of folks.

Dr.Pepper

03-14-2008, 01:08 PM

You'd be surprised. It's a bragging point for lots of folks.
Quoted for the truth. I get sick of hearing people's sex stories

Hanshotfirst113

03-14-2008, 01:15 PM

Quoted for the truth. I get sick of hearing people's sex stories

Especially when they involve other people that I know.

Antiyonder

03-14-2008, 01:35 PM

Especially when they involve other people that I know.

That's pretty much what I'm talking about where peer pressure is concerned.

Wolf Boy2

03-14-2008, 02:21 PM

Are STDs even a worry for 99.9% of the people on this board?:anime:

They sure aren't for me ............:sad:

Hanshotfirst113

03-14-2008, 02:24 PM

That's pretty much what I'm talking about where peer pressure is concerned.

Very true.

The Guitar Slayer

03-14-2008, 03:32 PM

How many of these kids would admit to having sex, let alone a disease, if they thought their parents could prove their identity?

For those who missed the context of the quote. :rolleyes:

Hanshotfirst113

03-14-2008, 03:32 PM

For those who missed the context of the quote. :rolleyes:

Still depends. Some parents are not as strict. It's a minority, but they do exist.

Dr.Pepper

03-14-2008, 06:19 PM

Yeah when I was 16 I told my mom I think like this guy and she was like, "When you want to get serious we can take you to the doctors to get some birth contral pills." Those may not have been the exact words but the same point was gotten across.

Of coarse I never got serious:sad:

Hanshotfirst113

03-14-2008, 07:06 PM

Yeah when I was 16 I told my mom I think like this guy and she was like, "When you want to get serious we can take you to the doctors to get some birth control pills." Those may not have been the exact words but the same point was gotten across.

Of course I never got serious:sad:

Yeah, heard of that sort of thing happening. Like I said, not all parents are so naive. And some are just more liberal.

PRdude

03-15-2008, 03:53 AM

Yeah, heard of that sort of thing happening. Like I said, not all parents are so naive. And some are just more liberal.

When I was in high school, I figured my mother would kill me if she found out I had sex. So I just never bothered. Not like I ever had any chances to do it anyway.

Temple Fugate

03-15-2008, 07:30 AM

Are STDs even a worry for 99.9% of the people on this board?:anime: There ARE lots of geeky girls out there. I know several friends who are either married or have at least had sex that you wouldn't really expect if you met them.

As for me, my Health teacher in high school always emphasized abstinence having a 100% success rate of protection from STDs. It's not something I intended to practice, though. It just sort of, well, happened. :shrug:

PRdude

03-15-2008, 08:44 AM

As for me, my Health teacher in high school always emphasized abstinence having a 100% success rate of protection from STDs. It's not something I intended to practice, though. It just sort of, well, happened. :shrug:

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Hanshotfirst113

03-15-2008, 02:02 PM

There ARE lots of geeky girls out there. I know several friends who are either married or have at least had sex that you wouldn't really expect if you met them.

Geeks have needs too ;). The stereotype is true for me, but you can speak Elvish and still have had ses.

As for me, my Health teacher in high school always emphasized abstinence having a 100% success rate of protection from STDs.

Well, it does. At the very least, that can be said.

It's not something I intended to practice, though. It just sort of, well, happened. :shrug:

Yeah, I never really pursued it that much, shall we say.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

:p.

Master Moron

03-15-2008, 04:24 PM

There ARE lots of geeky girls out there. I know several friends who are either married or have at least had sex that you wouldn't really expect if you met them.

As for me, my Health teacher in high school always emphasized abstinence having a 100% success rate of protection from STDs. It's not something I intended to practice, though. It just sort of, well, happened. :shrug:

That's not really true, though. Even if you choose to abstain from sex it's still possible to get some STDs from other sources, not to mention you could be raped. There's no such thing as 100% protection from STDs.

The Guitar Slayer

03-15-2008, 05:04 PM

That's not really true, though. Even if you choose to abstain from sex it's still possible to get some STDs from other sources, not to mention you could be raped. There's no such thing as 100% protection from STDs.

No. Abstinence is 100% fool-proof way of not getting STDs. What diseases you might be thinking of are not necessarily STDs. Yeast infections are not STDs. HIV is not an STD; it's a fluid-borne virus. You can get it from transfusions, sharing needles in tattoos or drugs, or be born with it, as someone previously mentioned. Physical contact between genitals, the genitals and the mouth, or an exchange of fluids via sex can transit STDs. In other terms, oral sex, anal sex, and other forms of sex that aren't "the real thing" are still sex, bottom line. And no, you can't catch things from dirty toilet seats unless they're still wet and less than a few minutes old. If you're that stupid to be grinding on a public toilet seat....

There are also variations of viruses that are not classified as STDs but their cousins are. Case in point is chicken pox. That's a herpes virus. Cold sores are also caused by a different version of the herpes virus. Are they STDs? Nope, but there is a variation that is an STD because it is transmitted via sex in some form mentioned above.

Rape is a sex crime, and it involves the violation of one using the genitals. It is sex at the primal level. You can get an STD from a rape. You also can get pregnant, but there's only about 3 days to a week a month when that is possible, not to mention that the trauma and emotional turmoil caused by such an event would generally trigger a spontaneous, natural abortion. I would hardly classify rape as a break in abstinence, however.

Romanesque

03-15-2008, 05:24 PM

That's not really true, though. Even if you choose to abstain from sex it's still possible to get some STDs from other sources, not to mention you could be raped. There's no such thing as 100% protection from STDs.It's meaningless to make that point. You could eat healthy & exercise and still have a heart attack. You could drive safely & obey all traffic laws and still wind up in a car accident. You could avoid swimming and still drown in a bathtub. (I could go on...)

Take all the preventative measures you want... bad things will still happen.
The best anyone can do is follow safe behaviors, whatever they may be.

--Romey

tb4000

03-16-2008, 03:08 AM

No. Abstinence is 100% fool-proof way of not getting STDs. What diseases you might be thinking of are not necessarily STDs. Yeast infections are not STDs. HIV is not an STD; it's a fluid-borne virus. You can get it from transfusions, sharing needles in tattoos or drugs, or be born with it, as someone previously mentioned. Physical contact between genitals, the genitals and the mouth, or an exchange of fluids via sex can transit STDs. In other terms, oral sex, anal sex, and other forms of sex that aren't "the real thing" are still sex, bottom line. And no, you can't catch things from dirty toilet seats unless they're still wet and less than a few minutes old. If you're that stupid to be grinding on a public toilet seat....

There are also variations of viruses that are not classified as STDs but their cousins are. Case in point is chicken pox. That's a herpes virus. Cold sores are also caused by a different version of the herpes virus. Are they STDs? Nope, but there is a variation that is an STD because it is transmitted via sex in some form mentioned above.

Rape is a sex crime, and it involves the violation of one using the genitals. It is sex at the primal level. You can get an STD from a rape. You also can get pregnant, but there's only about 3 days to a week a month when that is possible, not to mention that the trauma and emotional turmoil caused by such an event would generally trigger a spontaneous, natural abortion. I would hardly classify rape as a break in abstinence, however.

Ah, to be young and naive, and assume everything but missionary doesn't count as sex. :yawn:

The Guitar Slayer

03-16-2008, 09:55 AM

Ah, to be young and naive, and assume everything but missionary doesn't count as sex. :yawn:

Still sad in this day and age. It's because people have put a high price on vaginal virginity and figure that it's "not as bad" if you do everything else but. Double standard comes in because boys don't count; they want to marry a virgin, but they are expected to shag anything that walks by in the interim.

Besides, Kama Sutra is a book, and God knows we don't read books anymore.

Hanshotfirst113

03-17-2008, 09:13 AM

Ah, to be young and naive, and assume everything but missionary doesn't count as sex. :yawn:

Where did this perception come from? Seriously, if you can get a sexually transmitted disease, as far as I'm concerned, it "counts."

Still sad in this day and age. It's because people have put a high price on vaginal virginity and figure that it's "not as bad" if you do everything else but.

Why? Where did this perception come from?

Double standard comes in because boys don't count; they want to marry a virgin, but they are expected to shag anything that walks by in the interim.

Which makes no logical sense.

Besides, Kama Sutra is a book, and God knows we don't read books anymore.

Best. Line. Ever.

DonkeyKongSnes

03-17-2008, 10:39 AM

Speedy Boris

03-17-2008, 10:40 AM

Best. Line. Ever. Doesn't the Kama Sutra have pictures, though? ;)

The Guitar Slayer

03-17-2008, 11:21 AM

Doesn't the Kama Sutra have pictures, though? ;)

Yes, and also written instruction -- it's in Hindi, which is a very pretty language. It's almost art by itself. Written instruction is nice since you need to know where it all fits -- slot a, slot b, tab c, wing d, you get the picture.

Zeonic Freak

03-17-2008, 03:13 PM

True but any contact between creatures with similar DNA spreads virus, it's just the way the world works.

That was Charles Darwins family. He married his cousin and had like 7 or 8 kids, which most of them never made it past the age of 7 or so. The reason is he married someone of the same genetic code as he did. And you got some familys who wanna "keep the blood line pure", so they get it on with their brothers or cousins to stay in the same family. I hear the Amish are having those same genetic problems recently, of course i dont know how long they have been keeping the blood lines pure...

Romanesque

03-17-2008, 03:45 PM

That was Charles Darwins family. He married his cousin and had like 7 or 8 kids, which most of them never made it past the age of 7 or so. The reason is he married someone of the same genetic code as he did.Err... not quite what he was talking about. What you're talking about results from inheriting two copies of the same recessive gene (nothing to do with STD's), which is a lot more nuanced than just marrying a someone related to you. Way off-topic, too.

--Romey

Hanshotfirst113

03-17-2008, 06:07 PM

Glad to be a contributing member to that statistic, you gots to keep on spreading on...haha

Seriously though, the major std that the study was HPV and that number should be lowered now with the onset of its new vaccine. Also, I was suprised to read that about 1/2 of all black chicks have std's with whites and hispanic girls having a 20% rate. If only we could revert back to the good old days when pulling out was the norm.

How tactful.

Doesn't the Kama Sutra have pictures, though? ;)

Yes, and also written instruction -- it's in Hindi, which is a very pretty language. It's almost art by itself. Written instruction is nice since you need to know where it all fits -- slot a, slot b, tab c, wing d, you get the picture.

Objects in mirror are closer than they appear. Side effects include pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases. Please to talk to your doctor before trying. Some restriction may apply, void where prohibited, open only to those 18 or older. Not responsible for any damages to customer. Results may vary, use all with appropriate approximations. Call now.

mookie75

03-17-2008, 07:40 PM

I'm kind of surprised that this thread is still around. I suppose it's an important topic, but at the same time it's pretty racy subject matter for Toon Zone.

I guess kudos are in order to everyone for keeping things at a level of maturity that allows for continued thread existence! :anime:

Hanshotfirst113

03-17-2008, 10:34 PM

Temple Fugate

03-17-2008, 11:15 PM

Written instruction is nice since you need to know where it all fits -- slot a, slot b, tab c, wing d, you get the picture....What kind of body do you have?

I'm kind of surprised that this thread is still around. I suppose it's an important topic, but at the same time it's pretty racy subject matter for Toon Zone.Tell me about it. I can't believe I'm even reading and posting in it.

If only we could revert back to the good old days when pulling out was the norm.Pulling out works in theory, but when the time actually does come to "pull out," there is always the risk that the subject will either not anticipate it happening so soon, or be unable to prevent at least some small amount of fluid exchange before separation is achieved.

I'd also like to ask this, since I don't know firsthand...isn't the orgasm the most pleasurable part of sex, and therefore the whole point of wanting to have sex in the first place? If I was just going to "pull out," I probably wouldn't bother having sex in the first place. That's like going to Disneyworld and not getting on a single ride.

Forget "pulling out." Especially when condoms and spermicide at least take care of 90% of the danger while retaining most of the pleasure of the act itself.

purplehairedwonder

03-17-2008, 11:30 PM

Things have been reasonably maturely handled so far.And as long things stay as such, I see no reason to close it. See, when you behave there are perks :p

Master Moron

03-18-2008, 02:14 AM

Still sad in this day and age. It's because people have put a high price on vaginal virginity and figure that it's "not as bad" if you do everything else but. Double standard comes in because boys don't count; they want to marry a virgin, but they are expected to shag anything that walks by in the interim.

Well, there is generally less risk of disease from oral sex as opposed to vaginal sex. Though, it depends on the disease. Not to mention, it's pretty damn impossible to get pregnant from oral sex.

...What kind of body do you have?

Tell me about it. I can't believe I'm even reading and posting in it.

Pulling out works in theory, but when the time actually does come to "pull out," there is always the risk that the subject will either not anticipate it happening so soon, or be unable to prevent at least some small amount of fluid exchange before separation is achieved.

I'd also like to ask this, since I don't know firsthand...isn't the orgasm the most pleasurable part of sex, and therefore the whole point of wanting to have sex in the first place? If I was just going to "pull out," I probably wouldn't bother having sex in the first place. That's like going to Disneyworld and not getting on a single ride.

Forget "pulling out." Especially when condoms and spermicide at least take care of 90% of the danger while retaining most of the pleasure of the act itself.

Gee, how to explain this while staying in Toonzone's decency standards...see, the guy still orgasms, he just doesn't orgasm inside the woman.

GregX

03-18-2008, 02:57 AM

I am so trying to think of what to say, but I see a lot of naivetés here. Not making fun of anyone, but I see it.

Yes, abstinence is the only 100% guarantee, but most will do it anyway. Like me. Sexual responsibility is important. As soon as I turned sixteen, my mother bought me a box of condoms. She figured if I was going to do it anyway, she wanted me to have protection. It's not that she was liberal, but she was a realist.

I've been with several different women, more than ten, and I always get myself tested twice a year. I use protection, but twice a year anyway, and I am healthy.

A lot of kids these days just don't play it safe. It can happen through ways other than intercourse. Oral sex for example, which is why condoms and dental dams are a good idea.

ROBOTRON

03-18-2008, 03:16 AM

...What kind of body do you have?

Maybe a robot. I thought I was the only robot on these boards.:D

Pulling out works in theory, but when the time actually does come to "pull out," there is always the risk that the subject will either not anticipate it happening so soon, or be unable to prevent at least some small amount of fluid exchange before separation is achieved.

I'd also like to ask this, since I don't know firsthand...isn't the orgasm the most pleasurable part of sex, and therefore the whole point of wanting to have sex in the first place? If I was just going to "pull out," I probably wouldn't bother having sex in the first place. That's like going to Disneyworld and not getting on a single ride.

Forget "pulling out." Especially when condoms and spermicide at least take care of 90% of the danger while retaining most of the pleasure of the act itself.

I have bad news for you. Did you know bits of seminal fluid leaks out during intercourse without your knowledge? This fluid can contain sperm and impregnate a woman as easily as the normal full discharge at the end.

source: http://www.faqs.org/health/Healthy-Living-V1/Sexuality.html

(read section entitled: "Journey of the sperm")

The Guitar Slayer

03-18-2008, 05:43 AM

The people who use the pull-out method are better known as parents. That's no joke. If you're going to shag, do it proper with birth control and disease protection. Whether that's natural family planning (which is effective if you stick to it, just like any other regimen) or pills or getting a device implanted somewhere, you don't need babies right now. As to diseases, as mentioned before, know your history and your partner's history, then invest in some sort of disease protection if there's any doubt.

As to oral sex, while the chance is somewhat less, there are still people who have the embarrassing problem of having to show up at the gynecologist or the urologist for something that's growing in their mouth or throat. It's a low risk, like being struck by lightning, but really, must you run around with a metal rod in the middle of an open field? If your partner is clean (and you've seen the doctor's note) and you trust them, then game on.

Hanshotfirst113

03-18-2008, 10:10 AM

...What kind of body do you have?

It's probably best not to ask.

And as long things stay as such, I see no reason to close it. See, when you behave there are perks :p

I've said it for year, I've said it for years :).

Well, there is generally less risk of disease from oral sex as opposed to vaginal sex. Though, it depends on the disease. Not to mention, it's pretty damn impossible to get pregnant from oral sex.

Yes, but the point is, there is still a chance.

I am so trying to think of what to say, but I see a lot of naivetés here. Not making fun of anyone, but I see it.

From whom?

Yes, abstinence is the only 100% guarantee, but most will do it anyway. Like me. Sexual responsibility is important. As soon as I turned sixteen, my mother bought me a box of condoms. She figured if I was going to do it anyway, she wanted me to have protection. It's not that she was liberal, but she was a realist.

Common sense. If I had kids, I'd lecture them and tell them to play it safe. It you're going to do something, at least be smart about it.

A lot of kids these days just don't play it safe. It can happen through ways other than intercourse. Oral sex for example, which is why condoms and dental dams are a good idea.

Correct, which is what we have been discussing.

The people who use the pull-out method are better known as parents.

Old joke.

That's no joke. If you're going to shag, do it proper with birth control and disease protection. Whether that's natural family planning (which is effective if you stick to it, just like any other regimen) or pills or getting a device implanted somewhere, you don't need babies right now. As to diseases, as mentioned before, know your history and your partner's history, then invest in some sort of disease protection if there's any doubt.

Play. It. Safe. That's the whole point here. Think and plan this out, don't just do things in the heat of the moment that you (and your whole body) are going to regret.

As to oral sex, while the chance is somewhat less, there are still people who have the embarrassing problem of having to show up at the gynecologist or the urologist for something that's growing in their mouth or throat. It's a low risk, like being struck by lightning, but really, must you run around with a metal rod in the middle of an open field? If your partner is clean (and you've seen the doctor's note) and you trust them, then game on.

Better safe than sorry, and you'd still be better off being as safe as you can.

Temple Fugate

03-18-2008, 03:45 PM

I have bad news for you. Did you know bits of seminal fluid leaks out during intercourse without your knowledge? This fluid can contain sperm and impregnate a woman as easily as the normal full discharge at the end.Bad news for me? :confused: I was talking against the pull-out method. Still, that article helps to back up the larger issue.

I am so trying to think of what to say, but I see a lot of naivetés here. Not making fun of anyone, but I see it.There is an amount of shame I feel in admitting I've never had sex at my age, but it's more like the shame I feel when I tell someone I've never seen The Godfather. I know there's something big I'm missing out on, but I hope to one day get around to finding out what that is. And if I don't, then I've still lead a pretty fulfilling life.

At least there's the guarantee that I'll never be saddled with kids. That'd be the end of me. Stupid kids. Get out of the way, I'm making cartoons!

Antiyonder

03-18-2008, 09:10 PM

There is an amount of shame I feel in admitting I've never had sex at my age, but it's more like the shame I feel when I tell someone I've never seen The Godfather. I know there's something big I'm missing out on, but I hope to one day get around to finding out what that is. And if I don't, then I've still lead a pretty fulfilling life.

I hope to experience sex myself too. To add to that, if there are people out there who are miserable despite having sex, then people without sex aren't necessarily going to be miserable.

BrendaBat

03-18-2008, 10:38 PM

Originally posted by Master Moron
That's not really true, though. Even if you choose to abstain from sex it's still possible to get some STDs from other sources, not to mention you could be raped. There's no such thing as 100% protection from STDs.
So, what you’re saying is that girls who want to abstain before marriage should just give up and say, “Well, some man will probably rape me anyway (and my future husband might turn out to be a diseased man-whore), so I should just get plastered at the nearest college party and do it with the first cute guy who offers to hold my hair back as I puke". :sad:

I’m sorry, but that’s just stupid. Yes, it’s a scary world and sometimes bad things happen no matter how careful you are. That doesn’t mean a person should stop taking precautions, abandon their moral code, and start living like some hedonistic frat boy.

tb4000

03-18-2008, 10:54 PM

So, what you’re saying is that girls who want to abstain before marriage should just give up and say, “Well, some man will probably rape me anyway (and my future husband might turn out to be a diseased man-whore), so I should just get plastered at the nearest college party and do it with the first cute guy who offers to hold my hair back as I puke". :sad:

I’m sorry, but that’s just stupid. Yes, it’s a scary world and sometimes bad things happen no matter how careful you are. That doesn’t mean a person should stop taking precautions, abandon their moral code, and start living like some hedonistic frat boy.

It's easy to say things like "you only live once" and stuff like that when you're not doing the risky thing.

Hanshotfirst113

03-18-2008, 11:09 PM

It's easy to say things like "you only live once" and stuff like that when you're not doing the risky thing.

You're barely going to live once if you're not freaking careful. I went to an 18-year-old's funeral the week after my graduation. It's only funny until somebody gets hurt. You can say that "you're young, you think you're immortal, your body can take it" as many times as you like, but death doesn't discriminate and reality is an ugly place.

Sorry. Just had a bad reality check that day.

There is an amount of shame I feel in admitting I've never had sex at my ageWhat age? I'm 20, still never been kissed :p.

but it's more like the shame I feel when I tell someone I've never seen The Godfather. I know there's something big I'm missing out on, but I hope to one day get around to finding out what that is.Screwy analogy :p. But I figure the same. I'll get around to it someday. All of this sweating, taking off of clothes, putting on of clothes, sound like too much work to me ;).

And if I don't, then I've still lead a pretty fulfilling life.If I feel unfulfilled, having sex won't exactly solve all of the problems.

I hope to experience sex myself too.

Likewise. Someday...

To add to that, if there are people out there who are miserable despite having sex, then people without sex aren't necessarily going to be miserable.It's not some magical tonic. There are dozens of other factors.

Temple Fugate

03-18-2008, 11:36 PM

Screwy analogy :p. But I figure the same. I'll get around to it someday.Seriously, I feel the same about sex as I do about never seeing The Godfather. It's something everybody praises and they can't believe you've never experienced it. At the end of the day, though, it's just a movie.

It's easy to say things like "you only live once" and stuff like that when you're not doing the risky thing.It's also easy to say "better safe than sorry." I don't want to risk my future health just for one night of sex, so if/when the time comes I'm going to take reasonable precautions.

What age? I'm 20, still never been kissed :p.I could do without French kissing someone again. Call me a five-year-old, but feeling someone else's tongue was really gross. It didn't help that she had bad breath and her tongue tasted even worse.

PRdude

03-18-2008, 11:46 PM

I hope to experience sex myself too. To add to that, if there are people out there who are miserable despite having sex, then people without sex aren't necessarily going to be miserable.

THANK YOU! EXACTLY! It's tiring how people make sex out to be the be all-end all of experiences, and try to make you feel as though you're nothing unless you've had sex.

Now speaking of miserable, you should see these porn stars. They have sex FOR A LIVING, and some of them still aren't satisfied with their lives. Some of them wouldn't have committed suicide if they were truly happy either.

I've never had a girlfriend, and people tell me I'd be a lot happier if I got one already. Though at this point in my life, it might actually complicate things. I've got a lot on my plate as it is, and I'm sure no woman in her right mind would appreciate me dragging her into my life and making things complicated for her as well. Besides, women are tough customers. So it's not always that easy for all of us guys.

BrendaBat

03-19-2008, 12:17 AM

Originally posted by tb4000

It's easy to say things like "you only live once" and stuff like that when you're not doing the risky thing. I don’t know what you mean by that. Are you saying that the hypothetical abstainate girl in my hypothetical story should go out and screw the first guy she sees so she doesn’t lose her virginity to a rapist instead? :confused:

Look, I’m not one of those prudes that believes sex (or any kind of fun) before marriage is a one-way ticket to hell. I just get tired of people saying abstinence is pointless because you could still get STDs from rape, an adulterous spouse, a toilet seat, a pool, the air, etc….

Originally posted by Hanshotfirst113You're barely going to live once if you're not freaking careful. I went to an 18-year-old's funeral the week after my graduation. It's only funny until somebody gets hurt. You can say that "you're young, you think you're immortal, your body can take it" as many times as you like, but death doesn't discriminate and reality is an ugly place.

Sorry. Just had a bad reality check that day I know what you mean. A friend of mine died on his way home from the prom (he was hit by a drunk driver). :(

And I’ve seen a lot of people (men and women) who slept around in high school and lived to regret it. One of my male friends (who prided himself on being a “player”) got scared straight when he found out that one of his one-night stands might have had HIV. He had to call all the girls he had been with in the past 6 months and tell them to get tested and then wait an agonizing week to get his test results (which thankfully turned up negative).

Eddie G.

03-19-2008, 12:20 AM

I've never had a girlfriend, and people tell me I'd be a lot happier if I got one already. Though at this point in my life, it might actually complicate things. I've got a lot on my plate as it is, and I'm sure no woman in her right mind would appreciate me dragging her into my life and making things complicated for her as well. Besides, women are tough customers. So it's not always that easy for all of us guys.You really shouldn't look at it this way. What's great about having a true significant other is that they're someone who you share your life with. My girlfriend has a very stressful job that she complains about constantly, but I don't dislike her for it. I just do my best to be there for her as she is there for me. In short there is a certain amount of responsibility, but unless you're living a duel life as a crime fighter then I'm not sure having a lot on your plate is a real justification.

I don't think you should look as women as "tough costumers" either. Women are just like men, they want to relate to someone and are innately sexually attracted to certain people. If you just act like yourself which is probably a nice enough guy then there are probably going to be a lot of women who are going to like you. You don't have to sell yourself to them.

Seriously, I feel the same about sex as I do about never seeing The Godfather. It's something everybody praises and they can't believe you've never experienced it. At the end of the day, though, it's just a movie.Sex really isn't a uniform experience like watching a movie. The basic orgasm is the same, but that can be reached through masturbation. Actual intercourse and the foreplay that leads to it is never the same. It not only varies between partners but varies between evenings with the same partner. You've clearly had a rough time with French kissing, but your experience might be different if you try again.

Sex isn't always good either. The true joy of sex is relating and exploring another human being in a very intimate and physical way. It's really hard to put into words, but sex comes with an emotional baggage that can't be compared to going to a movie.

I'm not trying to guilt anyone, or make anyone feel bad. You shouldn't feel pressured to have sex for the sake of it, but at the same it can be one of the best parts of the human experience and as long as you're responsible and well informed then I hope you can enjoy it.

PRdude

03-19-2008, 01:30 AM

You really shouldn't look at it this way. What's great about having a true significant other is that they're someone who you share your life with. My girlfriend has a very stressful job that she complains about constantly, but I don't dislike her for it. I just do my best to be there for her as she is there for me. In short there is a certain amount of responsibility, but unless you're living a duel life as a crime fighter then I'm not sure having a lot on your plate is a real justification.

I don't think you should look as women as "tough costumers" either. Women are just like men, they want to relate to someone and are innately sexually attracted to certain people. If you just act like yourself which is probably a nice enough guy then there are probably going to be a lot of women who are going to like you. You don't have to sell yourself to them.

Well yeah, I'm sure being in a relationship is an awesome experience. I'm just saying that it's just not so easy for everybody to come by. When you come right down to it, some people are just so blessed that all of their relationships (or lack thereof) end up failing miserably.

It's good that you're there for your girlfriend and that you can comfort her whenever her job is getting her down. Even so, do you ever wonder how much longer you can be sympathetic? Do you ever get concerned that it'll just wear you out after a while? Also, I figure that any woman would like to have a man who appears as though he'd be a good provider. You know, in case they end up getting married and having kids. Sometimes money can get really tight for me, and it's even harder when you've got your own place. I also happen to be in my late 20's, and most women my age would most likely want to have a guy that would make a good provider. Just hanging out at each other's place watching movies over pizza most of the time, or whatever might not cut it for those women. That might have sufficed while I was a high school teenager, but I had my chance, and those days are long gone. I'm a grown ass man. I'm in the real world now.

I also agree with you about how you say women are just like men, but who's the one that's made to ask most of the time? Us. Then after that, we have to just hope like hell that she'll say yes. Now I'd also rather be myself, yet at the same time, I know that being myself just won't cut it for most women. I'm also not going to try to conform to her standards just to get her to like me more, if I don't agree with them either. That's another thing. People act like it shouldn't be so hard for me to get a girlfriend, but then they don't really understand what I might be going through.

Antiyonder

03-19-2008, 04:30 AM

I also agree with you about how you say women are just like men, but who's the one that's made to ask most of the time? Us. Then after that, we have to just hope like hell that she'll say yes. Now I'd also rather be myself, yet at the same time, I know that being myself just won't cut it for most women. I'm also not going to try to conform to her standards just to get her to like me more, if I don't agree with them either. That's another thing. People act like it shouldn't be so hard for me to get a girlfriend, but then they don't really understand what I might be going through.

Plus as I believe I mentioned to you before on another forum PR, is that some (not all) women claim they want a nice man, but then they date the jerk under the pretense that he'll soften up in time.

PRdude

03-19-2008, 07:28 AM

Plus as I believe I mentioned to you before on another forum PR, is that some (not all) women claim they want a nice man, but then they date the jerk under the pretense that he'll soften up in time.

Yeah but I'm talking about something totally different this time around.

Dr.Pepper

03-19-2008, 11:26 AM

THANK YOU! EXACTLY! It's tiring how people make sex out to be the be all-end all of experiences, and try to make you feel as though you're nothing unless you've had sex.
I am glad that there are people out there like you. I mean one day at school my lab partners were all sharing their sex stories and I was thinking "I am such a loser. I don't even like kissing. I need to grow-up and learn that life is more than just a cereal." Honestly that makes me happeir now that you said that,

Ben

03-19-2008, 11:43 AM

Kids, keep your legs closed til you're out of high school. It's a lot more fun when you're smarter, older, and not living in your mom's basement.

Maybe. But more helpful than "keep your legs closed" is to teach safe sexual practices during the teenage years. Make sure kids understand that it's equally important to use protection and to only crawl in bed with someone you can trust. That you can catch HPV even if your partner is wearing a condom. And teach kids that you CAN catch an STD from oral sex and to use protection there too. That way they'll have the tools to deal with STDs in their adult lives.

Just telling them to keep their legs closed until they're older only encourages them to go nuts and practice unsafe sex in college.

And sex is not the be-all and end-all, but it is sometimes wonderful and always fascinating. It can be emotionally excruciating or joyful, indescribably pleasurable or kind of gross. There is no single standard to evaluate it and different people react to it in different ways. When discussing it I think you need to be careful not to overgeneralize and to leave yourself open to the idea that someone else might approach it completely differently.

The Guitar Slayer

03-19-2008, 01:52 PM

I was hardly implying that, Ben, and I'm somewhat offended that you didn't read beyond that in any of my follow-up posts. My opinion is that it's a silly idea to try and have sex in high school when not only are you too young, too poor, and too stupid to raise a child, you also don't have the coping mechanisms to deal with the stress associated with avoiding pregnancy and disease on top of your 900 AP courses, extracurriculars, and proms. Any sort of "accident" increases the possibility that the girl will not finish. She'll end up attempting to get a GED, but anyone I've met who got pregnant in high school stopped there -- no GED, three to three and a half years of high school, working a dead-end job while Mom takes care of the kid. If not pregnant, then if one catches an STD, they'll likely not do anything about it since Mom and Dad will find out. I know some families are liberal, but there's still a fair number where sex = death. Then they spread the joy around in college before they discover the wonder of free clinic and privacy.

I believe in educating them, but I still think it's idiotic for them to try and use it at that point in their lives. I know some make the decision to start early, but I don't think it's the wisest. Be as innocent as a dove, but wise as a snake.

Captain Zechs

03-19-2008, 02:38 PM

Yeah but...who are you to tell someone when they can and can't have sex? Just because I am a teenager doesn't mean I don't know how to use protection, or that a girl doesn't know how to get on birth controls. You can be 30 and be just as stupid about sex...it isn't just teenagers.

And to point out, my cousin, who got pregnant with a guy when she was 17, finished high school, went to college, and then to law school and now is an attorney, and she is a really great mother (Granted, the dad did stick around and they are now married). Yeah, at the time it was stupid of her and she thought she had ruined her life, but she says she wouldn't have it any other way. So while there are a lot of cases where they drop out of highschool and such, there are other instances where things work out fine.

Romanesque

03-19-2008, 03:52 PM

Yeah but...who are you to tell someone when they can and can't have sex?Who's anyone to tell anyone they can or can't do anything...?
Where are you going with that?

Just because I am a teenager doesn't mean I don't know how to use protection, or that a girl doesn't know how to get on birth controls. You can be 30 and be just as stupid about sex...it isn't just teenagers.You, individually, might be fine. Your cousin was lucky. Some random 30 year old might not be fine. Exceptions happen, yet some generalizations remain perfectly applicable.

--Romey

Temple Fugate

03-19-2008, 04:04 PM

And sex is not the be-all and end-all, but it is sometimes wonderful and always fascinating. It can be emotionally excruciating or joyful, indescribably pleasurable or kind of gross. There is no single standard to evaluate it and different people react to it in different ways. When discussing it I think you need to be careful not to overgeneralize and to leave yourself open to the idea that someone else might approach it completely differently.Case in point, I've had discussions about sex with many of my friends. Some have told me about how amazing it is, some stories were funny, and one person I know had sex once and only once...said it was the worst thing they had ever experienced, and that they'd never have sex again. I'm just assuming they had a bad partner or something, because that story is the exception among everything else I've heard.

The Guitar Slayer

03-19-2008, 04:20 PM

Yeah but...who are you to tell someone when they can and can't have sex?

You missed these parts of my post.

My opinion is that it's a silly idea....
anyone I've met who got pregnant in high school....
I know some families .....
I believe in educating them, but I still think...
I don't think it's the wisest.

You know, all that context where I indicated that this was my opinion, not an ultimatum.

As Romey said, there may be exceptions on either side. However, dollars to donuts, someone who is still going through the emotional turmoil known as adolescence is not going to be the most mature and rational person on the planet. Juno is not the rule of pregnant teens; it's why it's a Hollywood film. Sex is a pleasure, but it's also a burden. Some people don't understand the concept of that trade off, and they're mainly young, not-completely-educated, hormonally charged kids.

Captain Zechs

03-19-2008, 04:36 PM

I didn't miss them, and even though you say those things a lot of the time the things you say come off as...fact? Whether it is intended or not I am not sure...

And I think people do understand the trade off, they just don't care. And let's face it, as someone who has taken those classes in Health I really don't think they did that great a job of enforcing the use of protection, mostly not doing it at all, which is good in theory to teach, but I really think they should keep an equal proportion to using protection also.

Temple Fugate

03-19-2008, 05:41 PM

I didn't miss them, and even though you say those things a lot of the time the things you say come off as...fact? Whether it is intended or not I am not sure...I didn't get any such feeling off GS' posts.

And I think people do understand the trade off, they just don't care. And let's face it, as someone who has taken those classes in Health I really don't think they did that great a job of enforcing the use of protection, mostly not doing it at all, which is good in theory to teach, but I really think they should keep an equal proportion to using protection also.Everyone here had different--or possibly no--Health teachers in high school. Mine was very open to discussing safe ways to have sex. Of course, she made it clear abstinence was the surest and safest method, but she knew it wasn't going to be practiced by everyone in the class and made sure to emphasize practical methods like Double Dutch.

Everybody is going to have different opinions on the importance of safe sex, and no one has the right to tell another that they shouldn't have sex. However, it's important to recognize the many false rumors about STDs and the like that are still floating around. It's my personal opinion that, before engaging in sexual activity for the first time, teenagers must be educated either by their Health teacher, a doctor, or by their parents. I'm lucky I was a shut-in. My parents never gave me "The Talk." Everything I learned about sex I learned through friends and the entertainment media first, Health teacher second, and health websites third. If I had practiced sex before taking Heath class when I was 17...well, it's impossible to guess if I would have contracted an STD or have a kid in elementary school right now, but I'm glad I got educated before sex became a real possibility for me.

PRdude

03-19-2008, 05:52 PM

I am glad that there are people out there like you. I mean one day at school my lab partners were all sharing their sex stories and I was thinking "I am such a loser. I don't even like kissing. I need to grow-up and learn that life is more than just a cereal." Honestly that makes me happeir now that you said that,

Well I'm not in the greatest mood right now, so I guess I should be happy that I made someone's day.

I'm annoyed about how I'm expected to nail every woman I see, simply because I'm a guy. That's exactly the kind of mindset that gets guys into trouble anyway. My best female friend lives in Colorado, and the two summers before the last, I flew over to see her. Some people were actually surprised, and even disappointed, that I flew all that way to see her and never banged her. That wasn't even what I wanted. That wasn't even what SHE wanted. I used to always toy with the idea of meeting her, and then I figured I might as well just do all the necessary things to make it a reality. That, and I needed a vacation anyway. And hey, Colorado is as good a place as any for that, yes?

I could also be spending time with a girl. Maybe have her over and watch movies or I go to her place and watch movies. I'd be just fine with not getting to have sex with her. Sure she might be attractive, and might have the qualities I look for in a woman, but that doesn't mean we have to have sex, or even establish a romantic relationship. Perhaps I just don't like her that way. It doesn't have to make me stupid, or even gay, and it doesn't have to mean that something is wrong with her either. Maybe I just know that it's in our best interest to just stay friends and not try to bring it up to the next level. Then when you come right down to it, things do change, and in due time I just might start thinking a little differently about her, and her about me. Though in the mean time, I'm grateful just having her as a friend and being on good terms with her.

Antiyonder

03-19-2008, 09:20 PM

PRdude

03-20-2008, 02:15 AM

Exactly. I mean it's like they're saying "The only reason you need to have sex isn't to be intimate or loving towards your friend, but to please me and the guys".

Well even a female was disappointed that I didn't sleep with my friend while I was there.

That's another thing. Even females would have that mindset about guys. Perhaps they figure that's just how guys are, so they don't expect anything more.

Kevin

03-21-2008, 10:33 AM

tb4000

03-21-2008, 11:02 AM

Well even a female was disappointed that I didn't sleep with my friend while I was there.

That's another thing. Even females would have that mindset about guys. Perhaps they figure that's just how guys are, so they don't expect anything more.

Yeah, I have heard chicks say they view a guy as weird if he's a virgin at a certain point in his life or if he has a chance to get some and doesn't. And here I thought the females loved that type of thing. Go figure.

Hanshotfirst113

03-21-2008, 11:41 AM

Yeah, I have heard chicks say they view a guy as weird if he's a virgin at a certain point in his life or if he has a chance to get some and doesn't. And here I thought the females loved that type of thing. Go figure.

Yeah, my friend's girlfriend thinks that it's beyond odd that at 20, I've still never sealed the deal. She keeps telling me that I need to get laid, and otherwise questioning my sexual orientation. It's getting annoying.

Temple Fugate

03-21-2008, 03:16 PM

Yeah, my friend's girlfriend thinks that it's beyond odd that at 20, I've still never sealed the deal. She keeps telling me that I need to get laid, and otherwise questioning my sexual orientation. It's getting annoying.I'm sometimes paranoid that my family might start wondering that about me, but I'm always open about the subject whenever it comes up so I'm pretty sure they understand I'm concentrating more on graduating than I am on losing my virginity, which is perfectly fine in their book.

Two weeks ago one of my roommates had his girlfriend over and we had a funny conversation about a bunch of stuff I can't get into here, but when the subject came up and I admitted to being a virgin, she just stopped and stared at me, like it was unbelievable. She's seen my room. It looks like one of those geeky rooms in the movies. Super neat, with a big computer and anime scrolls on the walls. We've talked enough that she knows the kind of guy I am. But still this came as a shock!

I suppose that's actually a good thing. It's nice to have a little relief that I don't give off a virgin aura.

Hanshotfirst113

03-21-2008, 06:44 PM

PRdude

03-21-2008, 08:26 PM

You're not alone. That annoys me as well. Another thing that makes me angry is how the media always portrays the guys as pervs, and the public believing anything the media tells them, naturally gets the impression that every guy out there is a perv, when it's just not true.

I remember expressing that point to one of my guy friends sometime back. He told me that there are a lot of decent men out there, and we just never hear about them as much is all. I even tried telling that to one woman who appeared to be down on men at the time, and she just said that those men always end up going bad anyway. It makes me wonder though, why is SHE even with a man in the first place if she claims that's true? I mean honestly. If women are going to have so little faith in us, then why should we bother being decent?

Yeah, I have heard chicks say they view a guy as weird if he's a virgin at a certain point in his life or if he has a chance to get some and doesn't. And here I thought the females loved that type of thing. Go figure.

I got the same crap at work one day once. From FEMALE co-workers no less. They were saying that I better find some woman to hook up with, because they don't want me to end up like the 40 year old virgin.

Also, about a guy being a virgin for a particular amount of time, I've heard about something like that before. While females may be more accepting of it, it even gets old to them at some point. There are even women who aren't virgins who won't bother with a guy who is a virgin. I remember hearing about one of them like that, and her reason for that is because she doesn't have time to "teach". Many other moons ago, a girl once told me not to lose my virginity to another version, as neither of us will know what we're doing and we'll ruin our sex life forever. However, other people I've talked to about that doubt her account.

Yeah, my friend's girlfriend thinks that it's beyond odd that at 20, I've still never sealed the deal. She keeps telling me that I need to get laid, and otherwise questioning my sexual orientation. It's getting annoying.

That reminds me of how back in high school, people got on my case because I didn't talk to girls. They're wrong, however. I did talk to girls, but I just never set out to establish a player image, or make an attempt to get into their pants. Also, since I never dated, I've had a few girls suggest that I could just be gay and go for guys instead, and would also say "there's nothing wrong with it". I won't get into my views on that subject, but that's just some ridiculous logic. I may have never been with a girl, but I have no attraction to guys whatsoever. I refuse to change my sexual orientation over failure to get a girlfriend.

I also wasn't all that much inclined to hook up with girls at my high school since the majority of them didn't seem to think much of me anyway. It's also ironic how guys treated me as though no girl in her right mind would want to date me, yet they were also just burning to see me talk to a girl. Another thing is that there were other guys who never actually went out of their way to make themselves popular with the ladies, and nobody ever gave THEM crap about it.

Also, if you think your sexual orientation being questioned on account of lack of relationship and/or sexual experience is irritating, try having someone wonder if you could be SLOW or RETARDED just because they claim you don't talk to girls.

One of my female friends (though I'm not sure if we even are friends anymore) got on my case a couple of years ago because I was 26 at the time and still haven't had a girlfriend. She was telling me I need to make a move, and not be a prude, as girls don't like guys who are prudes. One of the ways she suggested making a move is by sneaking in a kiss, but something about that just didn't seem right. I'm thinking if I was with a girl I like, and I tried to kiss her, she'd probably slap me silly, and rightfully so. Other girls I've talked to about that also disagree with her suggestion. Also, being a prude has nothing to do with why I haven't made a move. I just haven't been looking as of late. Though I'm sure if I was taking to a woman for a while, and I notice she has qualities I'm looking for in a woman, I might just act on her if I believe I have a chance. Not necessarily by trying to kiss her, but I'm sure I can think of something. Anyway, even if I don't make a move on her, it doesn't have to mean it's because I'm a prude. Perhaps, like the point I made earlier, it's just simply because I'm just not feeling her that way. Besides, there are other women out there that I can try.

Another thing I want to say is that while people act as though sex is just one of those experiences incomparable to others, a lot of experiences fall into that category. One of them to me is being involved with animals. I volunteer for a pet adoption group, and I'm always enjoying myself when I'm around the dogs and the cats. I also think that anyone who likes animals should have an experience like this, or maybe even be a pet owner. Though if they can't, that's cool with me, and I don't think any less of others if they can't, or even if it's just not something that a person is into. That was all probably just a bad analogy, but hey, I tried.

I've learned not to stress the girlfriend thing though. I mean when you come right down to it, it's not an easy task for all guys since like I said, women can be tough nuts to crack. (Some women would also admit to that, despite Eddie G.'s response.) A lot of them these days seem to never have a kind word to say about men, appear to always be finding fault in us no matter how much we strive to better ourselves, and then there's the ever growing number women who'd rather, instead of with a guy, be with ANOTHER WOMAN. So I've decided to just chill, and concentrate on the more important things.

I suppose that's actually a good thing. It's nice to have a little relief that I don't give off a virgin aura.

Well then I must give off a virgin aura, since I've often been asked if I'm a virgin. It's kind of insulting, having people look at me and thinking things like "there's no way this guy has ever gotten laid in his life".

Dr.Pepper

03-21-2008, 10:38 PM

Well then I must give off a virgin aura, since I've often been asked if I'm a virgin. It's kind of insulting, having people look at me and thinking things like "there's no way this guy has ever gotten laid in his life".
Ugh. Same here. In one of my classes a girl randomly out of the blue was giving sex tips. It makes me so mad and sad at the same time.:( :mad:

Hanshotfirst113

03-21-2008, 11:07 PM

I had a girl I know offer to hook me up with her friend. Wonder what that says about her friend, and how she treats her friend.

Antiyonder

03-21-2008, 11:11 PM

Bear in mind, that these comments I'm making are not about all women or women in general. I know there are still many level headed, considerate ones out there.

It makes me wonder though, why is SHE even with a man in the first place if she claims that's true?

As I've said before, some of them don't know what they want. They claim that they want the nice guy, but date the jerks thinking that said jerk will magically soften up.

I mean honestly. If women are going to have so little faith in us, then why should we bother being decent?

Don't get me wrong, I've felt the same myself. But if we choose to give up our decent attempts then we give them the satisfaction of their opinions being correct.

I got the same crap at work one day once. From FEMALE co-workers no less. They were saying that I better find some woman to hook up with, because they don't want me to end up like the 40 year old virgin.

Also, about a guy being a virgin for a particular amount of time, I've heard about something like that before. While females may be more accepting of it, it even gets old to them at some point. There are even women who aren't virgins who won't bother with a guy who is a virgin. I remember hearing about one of them like that, and her reason for that is because she doesn't have time to "teach". Many other moons ago, a girl once told me not to lose my virginity to another version, as neither of us will know what we're doing and we'll ruin our sex life forever. However, other people I've talked to about that doubt her account.

Which again makes me wonder, are they trying to persuade us to get into bed for our own sakes or theirs (living their lives through us).

A lot of them these days seem to never have a kind word to say about men, appear to always be finding fault in us no matter how much we strive to better ourselves, and then there's the ever growing number women who'd rather, instead of with a guy, be with ANOTHER WOMAN. So I've decided to just chill, and concentrate on the more important things.

Call it a payback of sorts. Our ancestors for the most part were pigs, disrespectful to women. Thus as men we are born with the burdens of our ancestor's sins.

Well then I must give off a virgin aura, since I've often been asked if I'm a virgin. It's kind of insulting, having people look at me and thinking things like "there's no way this guy has ever gotten laid in his life".

When you think about it, I'd think that our male peers would be glad we're virgins. It certainly reduces the competition of pleasing their women of choice.

Tash

03-21-2008, 11:17 PM

Ugh. Same here. In one of my classes a girl randomly out of the blue was giving sex tips. It makes me so mad and sad at the same time.:( :mad:I'm kind of curious as to what kind of advice someone would give to a stranger.

PRdude

03-21-2008, 11:57 PM

I had a girl I know offer to hook me up with her friend. Wonder what that says about her friend, and how she treats her friend.

Actually though, that reminds me of this time when a guy back in high school was asking me if I was a virgin. I kept telling him that I don't want to discuss that, but he was saying he knows someone who'd take it away from me. I still didn't care. I still didn't want to talk about it. The way that offended me though, is that it made me feel like that geeky guy someplace that people try to "make over".

Sometime before that though, I was asked if I was a virgin by this other guy. I just told him "what if I am? Did you want to take it away from me?". With that, he just said "I guess that means you're not", and then he left me alone.

As for the girl you mentioned, she wouldn't be a friend of yours, would she? If she was, then I'd like to think that perhaps she could have been just innocently trying to execute a nice gesture.

As I've said before, some of them don't know what they want. They claim that they want the nice guy, but date the jerks thinking that said jerk will magically soften up.

Don't get me wrong, I've felt the same myself. But if we choose to give up our decent attempts then we give them the satisfaction of their opinions being correct.

It also seems as though women pay more attention to the bad things we do than the good things we do. I understand that the bad things we do are more eye catching, but that could also encourage guys to do the wrong things, thinking that they can get more attention from girls that way. Even so, if I have to do act a fool just to impress women, then maybe I'd just rather be single.

It's not just guys either. A female internet friend I used to talk to told me that she should probably become a b*tch to be more appealing to guys, as it seems as though that's what guys want these days. She was just really desperate. I talked her out of it though. What made me kind of mad though, was when I told another female friend about this, and she just said "well that depends on what she wants". Come on now. What if it was one of her friends who said this to her? I hope she actually wouldn't encourage it. As a matter of fact, I'd hope she wasn't saying it's okay for that girl to be a b*tch if she wants to get more guys. Maybe being realistic, and not liberal, I hope.

There's also something else I wanted to mention about being egged on to hook up with a woman, even if I might like her "in that way". If I said I don't want to, they'd tell me things like "if she says no, there are other fish in the sea" or "the worst she can do is say no". They're not really getting the point though. I say that if the woman isn't showing signs of romantic interest in me that I can see, then I shouldn't feel obligated to make a move on her. I understand that we need to take chances, but I'd rather take chances when it makes sense, and not when its unsolicited.

Ajax

03-22-2008, 12:30 AM

I'm annoyed about how I'm expected to nail every woman I see, simply because I'm a guy. That's exactly the kind of mindset that gets guys into trouble anyway. My best female friend lives in Colorado, and the two summers before the last, I flew over to see her. Some people were actually surprised, and even disappointed, that I flew all that way to see her and never banged her. That wasn't even what I wanted. That wasn't even what SHE wanted. I used to always toy with the idea of meeting her, and then I figured I might as well just do all the necessary things to make it a reality. That, and I needed a vacation anyway. And hey, Colorado is as good a place as any for that, yes?.Hey Im not going after you or trying to pick a fight but uh I have a hard time believing what your saying. Simply put, many guys misinterpet not wanting to have sex with a girl and then not being able to have sex with a girl. If your seriously gonna sit there and say that if given the ability to sleep with any girl you would choose not to, Id bet a buffalos nickel your lying. The story you told above may have more to do with fear of the opposite sex then not wanting to bang a girl you know. Dude I might of missed the whole point (actually i think i did) of this but Im just throwing it out there, cause seriously every single post in the 5th and 6th page is the "typical" story you hear from people on the internet that do other things besides look at porn (much like the typical jock story of...i just had a threesome with these five drunk chicks).

There's also something else I wanted to mention about being egged on to hook up with a woman, even if I might like her "in that way". If I said I don't want to, they'd tell me things like "if she says no, there are other fish in the sea" or "the worst she can do is say no". They're not really getting the point though. I say that if the woman isn't showing signs of romantic interest in me that I can see, then I shouldn't feel obligated to make a move on her. I understand that we need to take chances, but I'd rather take chances when it makes sense, and not when its unsolicited.This I agree with my friend but unless the women your talking to are completely wasted then what you said is pretty much the rule no? I mean what "normal" (as in not a movie star, althelte, rich playboy, playa playa/pimp) guy keeps going after a girl who isnt interested unless said guy wanted to get slapped lol. Why would anyone give you grief about that?

As I've said before, none* of them know what they want. They claim that they want the nice guy, but date the jerks thinking that said jerk will magically soften up. Fixed.
Not a shot at the female race, just the simple truth from my experience.

Call it a payback of sorts. Our ancestors for the most part were pigs, disrespectful to women. Thus as men we are born with the burdens of our ancestor's sins.Dude i dont agree with this. Its been from my experience that really only ignornant women who have horrible taste in men hold that to be true. Plus dude...if thats payback...thats some really weak payback cause I mean if a women sleeps with five dudes shes a slut, if a guy sleeps with five men hes a hero and pimp. That right there pisses women off so like I said, weak payback.

Rolling Cloud

03-22-2008, 12:40 AM

PRdude

03-22-2008, 01:28 AM

Hey Im not going after you or trying to pick a fight but uh I have a hard time believing what your saying. Simply put, many guys misinterpet not wanting to have sex with a girl and then not being able to have sex with a girl. If your seriously gonna sit there and say that if given the ability to sleep with any girl you would choose not to, Id bet a buffalos nickel your lying. The story you told above may have more to do with fear of the opposite sex then not wanting to bang a girl you know. Dude I might of missed the whole point (actually i think i did) of this but Im just throwing it out there, cause seriously every single post in the 5th and 6th page is the "typical" story you hear from people on the internet that do other things besides look at porn (much like the typical jock story of...i just had a threesome with these five drunk chicks).

I believe it's safe to say that you did miss the whole point. I never said ANYTHING about my friend presenting an opportunity to me to have sex with her. Not only that, but she actually has never done anything of kind. Also, like I said, I didn't fly all the way over there for sex in the first place. She's just a friend. Not one with benefits. Not a screw buddy either. So I resent your statements possibly calling me a liar, and I take offense to you saying that fear most likely plays a factor in how I didn't sleep with her. Also, I hate to say this, but you sound exactly like the people that I was talking about in my posts.

This I agree with my friend but unless the women your talking to are completely wasted then what you said is pretty much the rule no? I mean what "normal" (as in not a movie star, althelte, rich playboy, playa playa/pimp) guy keeps going after a girl who isnt interested unless said guy wanted to get slapped lol. Why would anyone give you grief about that?

The only people who would give me grief about it are thick-headed horn dogs.

Ajax

03-22-2008, 05:31 AM

I believe it's safe to say that you did miss the whole point. I never said ANYTHING about my friend presenting an opportunity to me to have sex with her. Not only that, but she actually has never done anything of kind. Also, like I said, I didn't fly all the way over there for sex in the first place. She's just a friend. Not one with benefits. Not a screw buddy either. So I resent your statements possibly calling me a liar, and I take offense to you saying that fear most likely plays a factor in how I didn't sleep with her. Also, I hate to say this, but you sound exactly like the people that I was talking about in my posts.Really bro, I hope you dont take offense to this lol, but you sound like every "geek" i've ever met lol. Theres nothing wrong with that right, just saying. Every guy who cant get women sings the same tune that you guys are singing. Like I said no offense just the simple truth and since this discussion seems really one-sided im going on ahead and throwing my side. Although i did miss your point, rereading what you wrote, I dont understand were you get this impression that people want you to bang every girl you meet like its that simple? I mean what kind of people are you hanging out with were if you dont have sex with every girl you meet makes you less of a man. And if its total strangers saying this to you then why do you even bother listening to them and even at that unless the people telling you this are sleeping with girls everyday of the week then they shouldnt be talking. In the end I guess I dont understand why it would annoy you (or anyone) so much. I know this is what you guys are pretty much saying lol...but oh well. Hey man like I said I aint trying to cut into you or anything like that, stuff like this is touchy man but you guys situations intrerest me so I gotta say something that puts me on the other side of the discussion.

I think you did miss the whole point. I feel the same way that PRdude feels in that section you quoted and it has nothing to do with fear of the opposite sex. IMO, it's simply respect for the opposite gender.Respect for a women means that you treat her like a human being and not just some piece of meat that you throw away after your finsihed. Just because you dont sleep with a girl doesnt necessarliy equate to having respect for her. That what im getting at. Some of the guys here are around there 20s and havent even kissed a girl yet. Is that fear, well my common sense says yeah it is. Doesnt mean im right or that its fact, just from what ive gather reading the last pages of the thread. Thats were I was getting at.

Rolling Cloud

03-22-2008, 08:47 AM

I dont understand where you get this impression that people want you to bang every girl you meet like its that simple? I mean what kind of people are you hanging out with were if you dont have sex with every girl you meet makes you less of a man

Try hanging around my school. Majority of the boys in my classes feel that way. *rolls eyes* It's basically the reason I've stuck eating at the other end of the cafeteria usually (Away from them). (and, I know this wasn't targeted towards me, but just wanted to get my 2cents in)

J'onn J'onzz

03-22-2008, 12:52 PM

You guys are making sex out to be some unnatural heathenous activity. I mean, just because most of you are virgins, doesn't mean that everyone else should be too. The desire to have sex is natural. Don't get me wrong. I respect your right to not have sex, I haven't had it myself... but I respect the people who do have sex regularly. And considering this statistic, that's most of teenaged America.

edit: and I am not for harassing virgins, obviously. I'm just saying, you shouldn't generalize against people who do have sex, and they shouldn't generalize against you.

Lightning Tiger

03-22-2008, 01:30 PM

i think you guys should start a new thread for this, started reading it yesterday and it went to being about teens with STD's to "how im harrased for being a virgin" stories.

the original topic hasnt been mentioned in like 2 pages or something...........

Dr.Pepper

03-22-2008, 01:46 PM

I'm kind of curious as to what kind of advice someone would give to a stranger.
Well she wasn't a total stranger. I did talk to her about things, not sex though.

JLApe

03-22-2008, 01:56 PM

You guys are making sex out to be some unnatural heathenous activity.Sex is a heathenous activity, unnatural or not. Aside from procreation, the only other reason people - including teens - do it is for self-gratification. Can't dispute that no matter how you argue it.

I don't think it's possible for someone to contract STD without some kind of sexual activity. Which leaves me to believe at least one in four teenage girls are sexually active.

The Guitar Slayer

03-22-2008, 02:35 PM

Sex is a heathenous activity, unnatural or not. Aside from procreation, the only other reason people - including teens - do it is for self-gratification. Can't dispute that no matter how you argue it.

....I think the word you're looking for is hedonistic.

he·don·ism http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fbrowse%2Fhedonistic) (hēd'n-ĭz'əm) Pronunciation Key (http://cache.lexico.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html)
n.
Pursuit of or devotion to pleasure, especially to the pleasures of the senses.
Philosophy The ethical doctrine holding that only what is pleasant or has pleasant consequences is intrinsically good.
Psychology The doctrine holding that behavior is motivated by the desire for pleasure and the avoidance of pain.

hea·then http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pnghttp://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fbrowse%2Fheathen) /ˈhihttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngðən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[hee-thhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pnguhhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, plural -thens, -then, adjective –noun 1.an unconverted individual of a people that do not acknowledge the God of the Bible; a person who is neither a Jew, Christian, nor Muslim; pagan. 2.an irreligious, uncultured, or uncivilized person. –adjective 3.of or pertaining to heathens; pagan. 4.irreligious, uncultured, or uncivilized.

While I'm sure those godless atheists have sex, it's rumored that god-fearing people get some too.

JLApe

03-22-2008, 02:42 PM

I'm sure godly people get some, but in public they'd still paint it as heathenous.

Master Moron

03-22-2008, 02:52 PM

So, what you’re saying is that girls who want to abstain before marriage should just give up and say, “Well, some man will probably rape me anyway (and my future husband might turn out to be a diseased man-whore), so I should just get plastered at the nearest college party and do it with the first cute guy who offers to hold my hair back as I puke". :sad:

Of course not. That would be shallow. You should do it with the first ugly guy who offers to hold your hair back. Don't you know ugly guys are better in bed?

Antiyonder

03-22-2008, 02:53 PM

I'm sure godly people get some, but in public they'd still paint it as heathenous.

Religious people themselves don't paint sex as the sin, extremeists do. My decision to refrain from instant sex (aside from lack of familiar girls) is that I couldn't commit to the possible consequences from said sex. Those decisions were in my mind before I became a Chrisitian. Even so, my stance on people who do have sex varies.

If the couple made the choice to do it themselves (as an extension of a relationship or for the whole pleasure thing) then I can't fault them for it. If they're doing it for the whole peer pressure (locker room gossip) thing I bring up, then any criticism they get is deserved. The only other opinion that should matter is the sex partner and no one else.

Master Moron

03-22-2008, 03:07 PM

And I’ve seen a lot of people (men and women) who slept around in high school and lived to regret it. One of my male friends (who prided himself on being a “player”) got scared straight when he found out that one of his one-night stands might have had HIV. He had to call all the girls he had been with in the past 6 months and tell them to get tested and then wait an agonizing week to get his test results (which thankfully turned up negative).

And many people regret not sleeping around earlier in their life. Perhaps it's different between men and women, but in general women like men with experience. I wish I had slept around more when I was younger because now I don't have as much experience as I need to find a good partner. I mean, I was roommates with this one frat guy in college, he one time slept with three different women in one week. About four years after he graduated he got married. It just goes to show that if you get experience early in your life, you'll be better equipped to find a life partner later in life.

Well even a female was disappointed that I didn't sleep with my friend while I was there.

That's another thing. Even females would have that mindset about guys. Perhaps they figure that's just how guys are, so they don't expect anything more.

Well, the thing is, many females have the same mindset as guys. Many guys have this idea that women are this pure souls who only have sex to please guys. But, the fact is that most women love sex. Many women love to sleep around with many different guys. The only reason many women don't sleep around is because they don't want to be called a slut. Your female friend who was disappointed that you didn't sleep with her was probably disappointed because she likes sex and wanted you to experience it as well. It's not that she has a mindset about guys, it's that she has the same mindset as guys. Not that I'm saying you were wrong to not sleep with her or anything. That's your personal choice.

Romanesque

03-22-2008, 03:21 PM

So much in this thread just doesn't add up... or comes off the wrong way. :p I wish I had slept around more when I was younger because now I don't have as much experience as I need to find a good partner.So, what, women frequently break up with you after the first night you spend in bed together? If all the women you're after are using bedroom skills as the one and only deciding factor, maybe the problem is with the type of person you're seeking out.

I mean, I was roommates with this one frat guy in college, he one time slept with three different women in one week. About four years after he graduated he got married. It just goes to show that if you get experience early in your life, you'll be better equipped to find a life partner later in life.This is supposed to be impressive...? He then got married at, what, 26? Isn't that about average? Hell, I know enough people who married either much earlier or later than that (and stayed together) without having to sleep with three different people in one week.

--Romey

Master Moron

03-22-2008, 03:55 PM

I'm sometimes paranoid that my family might start wondering that about me, but I'm always open about the subject whenever it comes up so I'm pretty sure they understand I'm concentrating more on graduating than I am on losing my virginity, which is perfectly fine in their book.

Two weeks ago one of my roommates had his girlfriend over and we had a funny conversation about a bunch of stuff I can't get into here, but when the subject came up and I admitted to being a virgin, she just stopped and stared at me, like it was unbelievable. She's seen my room. It looks like one of those geeky rooms in the movies. Super neat, with a big computer and anime scrolls on the walls. We've talked enough that she knows the kind of guy I am. But still this came as a shock!

I suppose that's actually a good thing. It's nice to have a little relief that I don't give off a virgin aura.

My advise is to never ever tell other people you're a virgin. If the subject comes up, just say that you never kiss and tell or that it's private and you don't want to discuss it. Or you could always just make up a number of girls you've been with, like say, 3.

One of my female friends (though I'm not sure if we even are friends anymore) got on my case a couple of years ago because I was 26 at the time and still haven't had a girlfriend. She was telling me I need to make a move, and not be a prude, as girls don't like guys who are prudes. One of the ways she suggested making a move is by sneaking in a kiss, but something about that just didn't seem right. I'm thinking if I was with a girl I like, and I tried to kiss her, she'd probably slap me silly, and rightfully so. Other girls I've talked to about that also disagree with her suggestion. Also, being a prude has nothing to do with why I haven't made a move. I just haven't been looking as of late. Though I'm sure if I was taking to a woman for a while, and I notice she has qualities I'm looking for in a woman, I might just act on her if I believe I have a chance. Not necessarily by trying to kiss her, but I'm sure I can think of something. Anyway, even if I don't make a move on her, it doesn't have to mean it's because I'm a prude. Perhaps, like the point I made earlier, it's just simply because I'm just not feeling her that way. Besides, there are other women out there that I can try.

This is a very interesting post. You say that if you were with a girl and you tried to kiss her she'd slap you silly. That really says a lot about you. It says that you have low self esteem and that you believe that no girl would ever want to kiss you. Though, the idea of "sneaking" a kiss is pretty silly. You don't ever want to sneak a kiss. I think I've posted David D's kiss test on this forum before, but apparently no one ever reads it. I could post it again if you want. But, it basically tells you what to do to kiss a girl and how you know whether she wants to kiss you or not. It works like a charm. I have never ever gotten slapped for trying to kiss a girl. If you think that all girls are out to slap guys if they make a move on them then you really have the wrong attitude about it. Believe it or not, girls like being kissed.

Well then I must give off a virgin aura, since I've often been asked if I'm a virgin. It's kind of insulting, having people look at me and thinking things like "there's no way this guy has ever gotten laid in his life".

Yeah, in college I used to get asked that a lot. I think it has to do with the fact that it's always in the back of your mind. You're always nervous that someone's going to know you're a virgin and people see that nervousness and assume that you're a virgin. It's a pretty hard trap to avoid. I suppose the best response would be to simply lie and say you're not a virgin. They may not believe you. But, really, why should you care whether they believe you or not? It's not really any of their business.

I had a girl I know offer to hook me up with her friend. Wonder what that says about her friend, and how she treats her friend.

Again, I must point out that women like sex too. She probably wants to give her friend the chance to have sex. It's not like she's pimping her out or anything. And honestly, I think it's kind of sexist the way you say "Wonder what that says about her friend." Just because a girl wants to hook up with a guy doesn't mean there's anything wrong with her.

So much in this thread just doesn't add up... or comes off the wrong way. :p So, what, women frequently break up with you after the first night you spend in bed together? If all the women you're after are using bedroom skills as the one and only deciding factor, maybe the problem is with the type of person you're seeking out.

I don't mean just experience in the bedroom, I meant experience all around. Knowing what to wear, knowing what lines to say to a girl when you first meet, knowing how to get her back to her place, etc. It takes a while to develop these skills. Those who started in high school have an edge.

This is supposed to be impressive...? He then got married at, what, 26? Isn't that about average? Hell, I know enough people who married either much earlier or later than that (and stayed together) without having to sleep with three different people in one week.

Yes, but contrast it with me, who was only with one girl in college. I'm still single, while he's married. I think there's a correlation.

Antiyonder

03-22-2008, 04:42 PM

My advise is to never ever tell other people you're a virgin. If the subject comes up, just say that you never kiss and tell or that it's private and you don't want to discuss it. Or you could always just make up a number of girls you've been with, like say, 3.

I'll just tell them not to live their sex life through me. Plus follow up with a question to expose their flaw "Am I suppose to have sex for myself or for you"?

PRdude

03-22-2008, 05:20 PM

Really bro, I hope you dont take offense to this lol, but you sound like every "geek" i've ever met lol. Theres nothing wrong with that right, just saying. Every guy who cant get women sings the same tune that you guys are singing. Like I said no offense just the simple truth and since this discussion seems really one-sided im going on ahead and throwing my side. Although i did miss your point, rereading what you wrote, I dont understand were you get this impression that people want you to bang every girl you meet like its that simple? I mean what kind of people are you hanging out with were if you dont have sex with every girl you meet makes you less of a man. And if its total strangers saying this to you then why do you even bother listening to them and even at that unless the people telling you this are sleeping with girls everyday of the week then they shouldnt be talking. In the end I guess I dont understand why it would annoy you (or anyone) so much. I know this is what you guys are pretty much saying lol...but oh well. Hey man like I said I aint trying to cut into you or anything like that, stuff like this is touchy man but you guys situations intrerest me so I gotta say something that puts me on the other side of the discussion.

So let me get this straight. You're going to dis me by calling me a geek, say you mean no offense, and go "lol" afterwards? Sorry, but that all just undercuts your no offense card. The people I was talking about aren't even friends. They were either people from school or work that I'm just made to deal with while I'm there. Plus discussing what these people have said doesn't mean I'm agreeing with them. After that, I don't have anything else to say, since Cloud55 pretty much answered your question.

Well, the thing is, many females have the same mindset as guys. Many guys have this idea that women are this pure souls who only have sex to please guys. But, the fact is that most women love sex. Many women love to sleep around with many different guys. The only reason many women don't sleep around is because they don't want to be called a slut. Your female friend who was disappointed that you didn't sleep with her was probably disappointed because she likes sex and wanted you to experience it as well. It's not that she has a mindset about guys, it's that she has the same mindset as guys. Not that I'm saying you were wrong to not sleep with her or anything. That's your personal choice.

I had this thought today about the double standard where a woman is considered a slut for sleeping around while hardly anyone thinks anything of it when a guy does it. It's probably just irony. There are those females who look down upon a guy for expressing any sexual feeling. Then when they're the ones doing the sleeping around, it makes them look like hypocrites.

I think you might also have misunderstood something I said. The female I mentioned who was disappointed by me not getting any from my friend, is only a CO-WORKER. Not really someone who I'd consider a friend.

This is a very interesting post. You say that if you were with a girl and you tried to kiss her she'd slap you silly. That really says a lot about you. It says that you have low self esteem and that you believe that no girl would ever want to kiss you. Though, the idea of "sneaking" a kiss is pretty silly. You don't ever want to sneak a kiss. I think I've posted David D's kiss test on this forum before, but apparently no one ever reads it. I could post it again if you want. But, it basically tells you what to do to kiss a girl and how you know whether she wants to kiss you or not. It works like a charm. I have never ever gotten slapped for trying to kiss a girl. If you think that all girls are out to slap guys if they make a move on them then you really have the wrong attitude about it. Believe it or not, girls like being kissed.

Sorry you think that what I said about the kissing thing makes me look like I have low self esteem. I was only saying that it doesn't seem likely that ANY woman would be accepting if I just up and tried to kiss her. I'd have to be sure if she might actually be interested in me as a potential mate if I were to do something like that. I'd also have to be interested in her as well. It's not something I'd do to a woman with whom I'm just simply hanging out, without the expectations of any possible romantic tendencies. It's not like I'm going to rape her, but still. Besides, I already said I wasn't the only one who was iffy about that person's suggestion of making a move by kissing.

Hanshotfirst113

03-22-2008, 05:51 PM

My advise is to never ever tell other people you're a virgin. If the subject comes up, just say that you never kiss and tell or that it's private and you don't want to discuss it. Or you could always just make up a number of girls you've been with, like say, 3.

Oh, bull. Why should I? It's nobody business if I don't want to tell them, and if I do, it's nothing to be ashamed of.

Yeah, in college I used to get asked that a lot. I think it has to do with the fact that it's always in the back of your mind. You're always nervous that someone's going to know you're a virgin and people see that nervousness and assume that you're a virgin. It's a pretty hard trap to avoid. I suppose the best response would be to simply lie and say you're not a virgin. They may not believe you. But, really, why should you care whether they believe you or not? It's not really any of their business.
Why should I lie? As I say, it's nothing to be ashamed of, and furthermore, it's really their damn business.

Again, I must point out that women like sex too. ...Yes...This knowledge already rested with me...

She probably wants to give her friend the chance to have sex.No, she wants me "to get laid" because she thinks that "it'll loosen me up" and that it's something that I should experience.

It's not like she's pimping her out or anything.I am not a piece of meat!

And honestly, I think it's kind of sexist the way you say "Wonder what that says about her friend."OK, my bad. Poorly phrased. Quite ignorant on my part.

Just because a girl wants to hook up with a guy doesn't mean there's anything wrong with her.I never implied such.

I don't mean just experience in the bedroom, I meant experience all around. Knowing what to wear, knowing what lines to say to a girl when you first meet, knowing how to get her back to her place, etc. It takes a while to develop these skills. Those who started in high school have an edge.WHAT? I don't need lines or anything else unless all I would want is a casual night (in which I obviously have no interest). Otherwise, the decision to have sex would be something I would discuss with the other person extensively, not something spontaneous.

Romanesque

03-22-2008, 06:27 PM

I don't mean just experience in the bedroom, I meant experience all around. Knowing what to wear, knowing what lines to say to a girl when you first meet, knowing how to get her back to her place, etc. It takes a while to develop these skills. Those who started in high school have an edge.So, how's that other sort of experience improved by having sex with more people?

Yes, but contrast it with me, who was only with one girl in college. I'm still single, while he's married. I think there's a correlation.Your generalization seems rather hasty. :sweat:

Honestly, it sounds like you just wish you'd had more sex, plain & simple... nothing at all to do with being single or married at this point. No need to compare yourself with anyone else to admit that.

--Romey

Master Moron

03-22-2008, 06:46 PM

Sorry you think that what I said about the kissing thing makes me look like I have low self esteem. I was only saying that it doesn't seem likely that ANY woman would be accepting if I just up and tried to kiss her. I'd have to be sure if she might actually be interested in me as a potential mate if I were to do something like that. I'd also have to be interested in her as well. It's not something I'd do to a woman with whom I'm just simply hanging out, without the expectations of any possible romantic tendencies. It's not like I'm going to rape her, but still. Besides, I already said I wasn't the only one who was iffy about that person's suggestion of making a move by kissing.

What are you sorry about? When you say "I'd have to be sure if she might actually be interested in me as a potential mate" it demonstrates that you don't think many women would be interested in you as a potential mate. Again, you have the wrong attitude about it. You need to think of yourself as a catch, and if you're not a catch, make yourself one. And no, you don't just "up and try to kiss her". You need to do the kiss test. Put your arm around her, stroke her hair, look into her eyes. If she's repulsed by you, then you should know before you try to kiss her. And yes, I'm sure that ANY woman wouldn't be accepting of a kiss from a man. Some are married, some are lesbians, etc. But, if you have a girl alone in your room then she at least trusts you to some extent. You need to stop thinking about rejection. You're only setting yourself up for failure.

WHAT? I don't need lines or anything else unless all I would want is a casual night (in which I obviously have no interest). Otherwise, the decision to have sex would be something I would discuss with the other person extensively, not something spontaneous.

Ummmm...doesn't it say under your avatar "needs to get a girlfriend"? Apparently, you do need lines. I'm not trying to be insulting, but you seem to be really dismissive of what I'm saying.

So, how's that other sort of experience improved by having sex with more people?

To be honest, I'm kind of confused by your question. You're asking how is having sex related to improving your experience with women? Isn't that obvious? I mean, that's like asking how cooking more meals will improve your cooking ability. Look around this thread and you'll see people who say that people can tell they're a virgin instantly. This is because generally, guys who have had sex with many people have confidence. They know that they can have practically any women they want. Women want that type of guy. I mean, how are you going to know what to wear, what to say, what to do unless you actually go out there and do it?

Romanesque

03-22-2008, 08:31 PM

To be honest, I'm kind of confused by your question. You're asking how is having sex related to improving your experience with women? Isn't that obvious? I mean, that's like asking how cooking more meals will improve your cooking ability.From the examples given, it's more like you'd claimed that experience cooking will gift you with knowledge of proper chef attire and the skills to write your own cookbook or maybe host your own cooking show.

This is because generally, guys who have had sex with many people have confidence. They know that they can have practically any women they want.From the people I've known, the ratio of insecure to confident males sleeping around is about even at best, and there will always be women they "can't have".

--Romey

Master Moron

03-22-2008, 08:57 PM

From the examples given, it's more like you'd claimed that experience cooking will gift you with knowledge of proper chef attire and the skills to write your own cookbook or maybe host your own cooking show.

If you cook enough, it might.

From the people I've known, the ratio of insecure to confident males sleeping around is about even at best, and there will always be women they "can't have".

How do insecure males sleep around? Most women don't like insecure guys. And yes, there will always be women they "can't have", that's why I said "practically".

Romanesque

03-22-2008, 09:20 PM

If you cook enough, it might.As an indirect result, because your interest in cooking led you along a certain path? Maybe, but those results don't just happen because you cook alot.

How do insecure males sleep around? Most women don't like insecure guys.You want the mechanics of it? It happens. A few hours of feigned confidence and some alcohol is more than enough for them to get a series of one night stands. Not that they're all so simple in getting what they want. Some manage by having other sufficient attributes.

And yes, there will always be women they "can't have", that's why I said "practically".To step around the grammatical hedge, I do mean other than those who are either married or gay, should that be what you were thinking. That is, the fact that they can't really have anyone they want shouldn't be hand-waved away so easily.

--Romey

Antiyonder

03-22-2008, 11:25 PM

To be honest, I'm kind of confused by your question. You're asking how is having sex related to improving your experience with women? Isn't that obvious? I mean, that's like asking how cooking more meals will improve your cooking ability. Look around this thread and you'll see people who say that people can tell they're a virgin instantly. This is because generally, guys who have had sex with many people have confidence. They know that they can have practically any women they want. Women want that type of guy. I mean, how are you going to know what to wear, what to say, what to do unless you actually go out there and do it?

Ironically, the reason why most of those guys you talk about are having sex is because they think it will make them superior to everyone socially. Infact, sometimes the people who put up a display of confidence are the ones whp lack confidence. Some just do a better job at hiding their flaws.

Hate to break it to you, but people in real life aren't as simple as sitcoms will lead you to believe. What you see isn't always what you get.

Temple Fugate

03-23-2008, 12:45 AM

It's starting to get ugly in here... I might have to bow out soon.

My advise is to never ever tell other people you're a virgin. If the subject comes up, just say that you never kiss and tell or that it's private and you don't want to discuss it. Or you could always just make up a number of girls you've been with, like say, 3.Master Moron, you don't know me very well at all. Not that you're expected to. This is just an internet message board. But if you asked any of my friends, they would tell you that I would never lie to someone from whom I was trying to gain respect. It doesn't feel right to lie to a girl in the hopes that she would be more attracted to me. If I were the girlfriend, I certainly wouldn't appreciate being lied to. The ruse would also fall apart the moment we got in bed together, with me not knowing anything about sex beyond Tab A into Slot B, so she would inevitably discover that I was putting on a face.

Your methods may satisfy you, however in my case, I must dismiss your suggestion outright.

Have my elitist morals possibly doomed my sex life? Maybe. Maybe not. But this is the person that I am, and unless/until I get VERY desperate, I don't anticipate changing myself just to get a date.

Antiyonder

03-23-2008, 12:52 AM

It's starting to get ugly in here... I might have to bow out soon.

Master Moron, you don't know me very well at all. Not that you're expected to. This is just an internet message board. But if you asked any of my friends, they would tell you that I would never lie to someone from whom I was trying to gain respect. It doesn't feel right to lie to a girl in the hopes that she would be more attracted to me. If I were the girlfriend, I certainly wouldn't appreciate being lied to. The ruse would also fall apart the moment we got in bed together, with me not knowing anything about sex beyond Tab A into Slot B, so she would inevitably discover that I was putting on a face.

Your methods may satisfy you, however in my case, I must dismiss your suggestion outright.

Have my elitist morals possibly doomed my sex life? Maybe. Maybe not. But this is the person that I am, and unless/until I get VERY desperate, I don't anticipate changing myself just to get a date.

Besides, sooner or later the truth usually finds a way out and those who hide their flaws look even more foolish for their flimsy cover up attempts. So being honest about flaws are actually in the best interest of said individual.

Hanshotfirst113

03-23-2008, 12:52 AM

It's starting to get ugly in here... I might have to bow out soon.

Unless things cool off, this thread may get locked soon. That it's lasted as long as it has is pretty impressive.

John Dorian

03-23-2008, 12:54 AM

It's the Birds and the Bees in this thread. :D

What kind of mod would leave this thread open?!

BrendaBat

03-23-2008, 02:07 AM

Originally posted by John Dorian
What kind of mod would leave this thread open?!
My guess is that the mods are enjoying the show. :sweat:

Originally posted by Master Moron
And many people regret not sleeping around earlier in their life. Perhaps it's different between men and women, but in general women like men with experience. I wish I had slept around more when I was younger because now I don't have as much experience as I need to find a good partner. I mean, I was roommates with this one frat guy in college, he one time slept with three different women in one week. About four years after he graduated he got married. It just goes to show that if you get experience early in your life, you'll be better equipped to find a life partner later in life.
Don't generalize all women like that. I don't know where you meet women; but I assure you that most of us don't actively seek out a guy with a reputation for being a horny animal that only cares about getting laid as often as possible. In fact, most sane girls know that hanging out with a guy like that at a party or a bar is a one-way ticket to date rape. :sad:

And I doubt anyone with a shred of respect for themselves and others actually feels regret over something as meaningless as not screwing around enough in High School (except insecure people who are jealous of their slutty roommates :p).

purplehairedwonder

03-23-2008, 02:17 AM

Unless things cool off, this thread may get locked soon. That it's lasted as long as it has is pretty impressive.I'd prefer to not have to close this thread at all but this a general warning for everyone:

Let's calm down. This is mature material and if the thread is going to stay open we need to all be respectful about everyone else's beliefs on the subject. Respect your fellow posters and don't forget the original topic.

PRdude

03-23-2008, 03:27 AM

What are you sorry about? When you say "I'd have to be sure if she might actually be interested in me as a potential mate" it demonstrates that you don't think many women would be interested in you as a potential mate. Again, you have the wrong attitude about it. You need to think of yourself as a catch, and if you're not a catch, make yourself one. And no, you don't just "up and try to kiss her". You need to do the kiss test. Put your arm around her, stroke her hair, look into her eyes. If she's repulsed by you, then you should know before you try to kiss her. And yes, I'm sure that ANY woman wouldn't be accepting of a kiss from a man. Some are married, some are lesbians, etc. But, if you have a girl alone in your room then she at least trusts you to some extent. You need to stop thinking about rejection. You're only setting yourself up for failure.

Again you misunderstand my points, just like you seem to be misunderstanding everybody else's. What I'd do is try to "read" the woman first before I made any move. Try to notice any physical gestures and what not. I also won't even bother looking for those unless I'm interested in her myself. You see, a lot of guys tend to mistake the slightest gesture from a woman that she's interested in her. A woman could ask him for the time, and he'd think "she wants me". She could compliment his looks at some point, but that doesn't have to mean she's possibly interested in him to so much as sleep with him or anything. So the things I've said don't have to mean I'm unsure of myself. I'm just trying to make smart decisions and make sure I'm thinking with my brain than with my you-know-what.

Ummmm...doesn't it say under your avatar "needs to get a girlfriend"? Apparently, you do need lines. I'm not trying to be insulting, but you seem to be really dismissive of what I'm saying.

Even if he has had a girlfriend before, he could still use that as his custom title.

Ajax

03-23-2008, 03:57 AM

So let me get this straight. You're going to dis me by calling me a geek, say you mean no offense, and go "lol" afterwards? Sorry, but that all just undercuts your no offense card. The people I was talking about aren't even friends. They were either people from school or work that I'm just made to deal with while I'm there. Plus discussing what these people have said doesn't mean I'm agreeing with them. After that, I don't have anything else to say, since Cloud55 pretty much answered your question.Hey man, you can take it however you want, it is what is, you are what you are, unless you prove me other wise calling you a "geek" (which isnt even a bad thing or an insult) shouldnt offend you. Hey PRdude seriously bro whats the color of the sky in your world? If you come into a public forum and discuss your life out in the open you think everyone is gonna play nice with you man. From what Im reading and from what you answered above I gather that all your doing is just complaining and whinning about people who give you crap about being a vrigin.

Again you misunderstand my points, just like you seem to be misunderstanding everybody else's. What I'd do is try to "read" the woman first before I made any move. Try to notice any physical gestures and what not. I also won't even bother looking for those unless I'm interested in her myself. You see, a lot of guys tend to mistake the slightest gesture from a woman that she's interested in her. ....Lol this is why you fail my friend (with the opposite sex). Funny that you say a lot of guys tend to make that mistake, because a lot guys also tend to just sit there forever trying to figure out if a girl is interested or not. Its a doublebladed sword. Seriously bro, its just easier to go up to women and talk to them (ones your interested in of course) as opposed to acting like a code breaker and trying to figure out "gestures".

Antiyonder

03-23-2008, 04:16 AM

....Lol this is why you fail my friend (with the opposite sex). Funny that you say a lot of guys tend to make that mistake, because a lot guys also tend to just sit there forever trying to figure out if a girl is interested or not. Its a doublebladed sword. Seriously bro, its just easier to go up to women and talk to them (ones your interested in of course) as opposed to acting like a code breaker and trying to figure out "gestures".

How can you be sure? Because what works for one person doesn't always work for the other:

1. Some people type better when typing the proper way (eight fingers touching keyboard). Some type better with two fingers.

2. Some parents need to spank their kids on a regular basis to ensure good behavior. Some parents can do just as well by taking away priviledges

3. Some people get around town fast by their own vehicle. Some people get around town fast by public transportation.

Bottom line, generalizations accomplish nothing. Everyone has to find their own way to get through life.

Marinite

03-23-2008, 05:02 AM

I myself would only date a virgin, but it looks like it's becoming more and more impossible in this day and age in this society. So I suppose I'll just have to accept that I'll never find anyone. :sweat:

Master Moron

03-23-2008, 02:26 PM

Don't generalize all women like that. I don't know where you meet women; but I assure you that most of us don't actively seek out a guy with a reputation for being a horny animal that only cares about getting laid as often as possible. In fact, most sane girls know that hanging out with a guy like that at a party or a bar is a one-way ticket to date rape. :sad:

I seriously laughed out loud at this post. I'm not trying to be rude, but if you think all guys with experience are rapists I think you're watching too much Family Guy. And its not about having a reputation, it's about knowing what to wear, what to say, what to do. You're far more likely to fall for a guy who has experience than a virgin because guys with experience know how to attract women.

Again you misunderstand my points, just like you seem to be misunderstanding everybody else's. What I'd do is try to "read" the woman first before I made any move. Try to notice any physical gestures and what not.

Don't get me wrong, it's good to read women, but you also need to make sure to build up the momentum. Part of reading women is making a move and seeing how they react.

You see, a lot of guys tend to mistake the slightest gesture from a woman that she's interested in her. A woman could ask him for the time, and he'd think "she wants me". She could compliment his looks at some point, but that doesn't have to mean she's possibly interested in him to so much as sleep with him or anything. So the things I've said don't have to mean I'm unsure of myself.

In trying to demonstrate that you're not unsure of yourself you have only further demonstrated that you are unsure of yourself. It's GOOD to think that all women want you. Part of how other people perceive you is how you perceive yourself. If you perceive yourself as desirable to women then you will have a better chance of being desirable to women.

And you know, you seem to be taking offense at what I'm telling you. I'm not trying to upset you, I'm trying to help you. But, you seem to be completely dismissive of other people's suggestions.

Temple Fugate

03-23-2008, 02:36 PM

Bottom line, generalizations accomplish nothing. Everyone has to find their own way to get through life.Absolutely. I hear several conflicting stories about sexual experiences, and I realize that it's something that everyone approaches in their own way, and comes away feeling differently about it. So I know enough not to make decisions about sex one way or the other until I've tried it myself.

I myself would only date a virgin, but it looks like it's becoming more and more impossible in this day and age in this society. So I suppose I'll just have to accept that I'll never find anyone. :sweat:Never do that, man. I'd like to hold out for a virgin as well, so we can learn everything together, but the older I get the less likely that seems. However, it's also been my experience that some of the women I've met over the years have attracted me for completely unexected reasons. It's my belief that if I ever meet the right woman she won't live up to my ideal "dream woman," but she'll attract me all the same.

The Guitar Slayer

03-23-2008, 03:43 PM

From a female perspective:

If someone mentions or it comes up in conversation that they're a virgin, I do not think less of them. However, if they're constantly berating the fact they're a virgin and making themselves sound like a martyr, I think any girl is turned off. We're not going to go, "Oh, let me help fix that." Because you're so anxious about it, it's probably going to do more harm than good if we give you a pity ****.

Ergo, don't be afraid to say you're a virgin if it comes up in conversation, but don't make it a conversation starter or a part of every single conversation. TMI, and it's really not that important to us -- any insecurity you have is yours. Don't advertise it everywhere; it's like an SUV manufacturing advertising all of its safety failures. Whether it's that cowlick on the back of your head or a sixth toe, don't advertise what you don't like about yourself -- we might find it cute in the end. Don't put it up front, but you do have to tell her eventually. If she dumps you over it, she wasn't that great of a catch anyway.

If someone is making a big deal out of your virginity, they lack maturity and a set of priorities that will lead to a happy life overall, not just when you're young. If sex is a #1 priority, go out and marry a dumb slut who will spend all your money and can't hold a conversation. You got what you wanted. I don't know how charming that will be when you're both getting older and uglier and have less money.

As to men with more experience, any woman with a good head on her shoulders realizes that "more" does not mean "better." It just means that he slept with more people and could not maintain a relationship with that person for whatever reason, be it something that didn't work out or a one-night stand. I personally can't do a one-night stand, but I know others who can. Such is life.

If you're fretting that a girl won't date you because you don't have the experience and will dump you if you don't, then she isn't the one for you. I've never heard of any true, real love that didn't work because "he couldn't do that thing with his hips." It's more along the lines of "he was an asshat when drunk" or "we moved too far apart" or "he was constantly questioning how could I love him." It's who and what you are, not what you do in the bedroom that makes or breaks a relationship, unless it's a superficial one to start with.

I see a lot of people looking for a relationship -- my advice via Ferris Bueller: don't marry the first girl that sleeps with you. Unless you're already in a committed relationship and plan on getting married and stuff anyway (for example, you believe in chastity before marriage and are absolutely sure that person is the one), then don't impose the ultimatum on yourself that you have to marry her because she's the only one who would have sex with you. Not true. In short, date people before you commit to one person. Don't feel obliged to start a relationship with a person unless you really dig them. Speed dating is a great way to make friends and get dates. So date around, be selective, and be happy, dammit.

And now I respond.

I seriously laughed out loud at this post. I'm not trying to be rude, but if you think all guys with experience are rapists I think you're watching too much Family Guy. And its not about having a reputation, it's about knowing what to wear, what to say, what to do. You're far more likely to fall for a guy who has experience than a virgin because guys with experience know how to attract women.

Don't twist what she said. Bars are not exactly the best place to meet Mr. Right. Fact. Bars are places with drinks. Fact. Most date rape drugs are slipped into drinks because the alcohol masks the taste better than non-alcoholic drinks. Fact. As a result, women usually flock together in bars for safety, and we're hypercritical of guys because we like to be safe. Most of the horror stories we hear from other women are alcohol or bar-related. We're wary by nature. Guys who have a rep for pulling girls at such events and not at others generally have the aura of, "He has to get you drunk before you'll go with him." That's not experience; that's ulterior motives when he buys you a drink.

And when does "virgin" mean "can't dress himself" or "socially awkward"? It's a choice to have sex. Period. Just because they aren't pulling birds left and right doesn't mean they have more experience or are better with the ladies. What if someone married their first girlfriend and had a great relationship until she died suddenly? Because she's the only one he slept with, does that make him almost as bad as a "virgin"? Just as socially inept and awkward because he slept with only one girl? No, it doesn't. He could be a correspondent for GQ and knows how to be around women and look good. He just decided he only wanted one. It's being self-aware and self-confident that makes you a good date and able to pick up chicks. There is no tattoo or barcode we can scan to figure out your mileage. As I said before, watch what you advertise.

If you're bitter and can't stop talking about how ashamed you are, we're going to thank you for the drink and get up and leave. If you are going to say how mean women are and how you can't find one who will accept you for who you are (which is an asshat move, since you're slamming me just so you can get shot in at all womanhood), we're also going to get up and leave, probably not thanking you for the drink since what you said was insensitive.

Every woman is different. As to signals, some men's magazines say if a woman touches herself on the face or shoulder while she's talking to you, it means she's into you. When I go out to bars, if my friend is talking to a guy, sees me, and then touches her shoulder or suddenly starts playing with her hair or touches her cheek or something along those lines, it means that I need to bail her out of this conversation with this guy. Women are all different. Talk to her if you want to talk to her -- we're not on National Geographic Channel to be watched. If you want to stare at her all night, go ahead, but she's going to notice and wonder what's the deal. Do that repeatedly, and she'll stop coming to the bar cuz you're creepy.

Antiyonder

03-23-2008, 03:56 PM

And when does "virgin" mean "can't dress himself" or "socially awkward"? It's a choice to have sex. Period. Just because they aren't pulling birds left and right doesn't mean they have more experience or are better with the ladies. What if someone married their first girlfriend and had a great relationship until she died suddenly? Because she's the only one he slept with, does that make him almost as bad as a "virgin"? Just as socially inept and awkward because he slept with only one girl? No, it doesn't. He could be a correspondent for GQ and knows how to be around women and look good. He just decided he only wanted one. It's being self-aware and self-confident that makes you a good date and able to pick up chicks. There is no tattoo or barcode we can scan to figure out your mileage. As I said before, watch what you advertise.

Quoted for truth. And as I've mentioned before, half the time people who are persistent for sex like there's no tomorrow are just as insecure as those of us virgins. They're not pursuing a sex partner for love or even just pelasure, but because they feel like they have something to prove to their friends and family. Doing something to prove superiority is a sign of insecurity itself.

Yes, I lack self confidence at times, but not to the point where I need to bed up with a random girl to feel better.

Again, Master Moron, generalizations do not accomplish anything. You criticized BrendaBat for looking at relationships being akin to Family Guy, but you seem to think that you can fit people in the categories that you'd see on a sitcom (generalizing/sterotyping). If you honestly believe that everyone has the same mindset and is interchangable, then "I think you're watching too much teen sitcoms".

Hanshotfirst113

03-23-2008, 07:18 PM

Never do that, man. I'd like to hold out for a virgin as well, so we can learn everything together, but the older I get the less likely that seems. However, it's also been my experience that some of the women I've met over the years have attracted me for completely unexected reasons. It's my belief that if I ever meet the right woman she won't live up to my ideal "dream woman," but she'll attract me all the same.

That's ludicrous, IMO. Would that be what I'd like? Yeah. But the point in a relationship is feelings, how you relate to the person. If I want to have sex with a person, it will be MY decision based on what I think it will do for the relationship that we have, if it will deepen my feelings for the person and reflect those feelings, and so forth. I'm not a prude, but I'm not scratching an itch either. Part of me would probably be flattered if a girl wanted to have sex with me, but if it was a casual thing, I think that I'd be offended. "Dream women,?" "Mr. Right," all fairytales, IMO. Love and relationships take work. That doesn't mean that love can be reduced to a series of facts and figures, and it's why unlikely people fall in love, because love is blind. But it's not come cure-all. It's endless work (and often pain), and you've got to be ready for that and willing to commit your heart and soul and your whole self to another person. At least that what I think.

From a female perspective:

If someone mentions or it comes up in conversation that they're a virgin, I do not think less of them. However, if they're constantly berating the fact they're a virgin and making themselves sound like a martyr, I think any girl is turned off. We're not going to go, "Oh, let me help fix that." Because you're so anxious about it, it's probably going to do more harm than good if we give you a pity ****.

If a guy wants to have sex and hasn't yet and doesn't care who it's with, then you might as well just buy your first time. I berate myself a lot (for various reasons, sometimes quite amusingly, as some of my self-deprecation is funny), but I think that I define myself largely by the people in my life. The fact that I have friends like I do must be a greater testament to me than I sometimes think.

Ergo, don't be afraid to say you're a virgin if it comes up in conversation, but don't make it a conversation starter or a part of every single conversation. TMI, and it's really not that important to us -- any insecurity you have is yours.

Quite so.

Don't advertise it everywhere

It's nobody's damn business unless I choose to tell them, and if I choose to tell them, then it means that I trust them. Otherwise, if I want your opinion, I'll ask.

If someone is making a big deal out of your virginity, they lack maturity and a set of priorities that will lead to a happy life overall, not just when you're young.

Perhaps I'm beginning to sound like a broken record, but again, it's not of their business.

As to men with more experience, any woman with a good head on her shoulders realizes that "more" does not mean "better."

I think that it's a problem for a lot of guys. Certainly, if I ever entered into a relationship with a girl, and things did progress to that point, I'd definately have concerns over my own abilities. But I can't help but hope that that's not all of me that she's interested in.

If you're fretting that a girl won't date you because you don't have the experience and will dump you if you don't, then she isn't the one for you. I've never heard of any true, real love that didn't work because "he couldn't do that thing with his hips." It's more along the lines of "he was an asshat when drunk" or "we moved too far apart" or "he was constantly questioning how could I love him." It's who and what you are, not what you do in the bedroom that makes or breaks a relationship, unless it's a superficial one to start with.

QFT.

Don't twist what she said. Bars are not exactly the best place to meet Mr. Right.

More like Mr. Right Now :p.

Fact. Bars are places with drinks.

Yes, and alcohol does strange things to people's minds and affects decision-making, unless I'm very much mistaken.

And when does "virgin" mean "can't dress himself" or "socially awkward"?

In stereotypeland.

Every woman is different.

Everybody is different.

Marinite

03-23-2008, 07:45 PM

purplehairedwonder

03-23-2008, 10:46 PM

Antiyonder

03-23-2008, 10:57 PM

Also from the female perspective, I agree 100%. Some of the generalizations about women in this thread have really prickled me.

My post (post 113) doesn't happen to fall in the generalization category does it? Just wanted to be sure that I was clear on it not being anti-woman.

Hanshotfirst113

03-23-2008, 11:00 PM

Likewise. Most of my friends are women, I'd hope that after all the time that I spend with them, I at least attempt to understand them.

Temple Fugate

03-23-2008, 11:26 PM

I don't see why I shouldn't. It's not like I'm asking for the impossible, since I myself have waited as well. Unlikely, yes, but not impossible. I'm just want a girl with the morals like what I have, rather than a girl who believes in one-night-stands or silly little flinging relationships.

But I'm not actively seeking a girlfriend, I'm contempt living without one, so it's not too big a deal for me. It's just good to have a standard incase the situation ever comes up.Of course, that's absolutely fine. My response to your earlier post was to offset what I perceived as an admission to giving up. I was saying "don't give up" in a roundabout way, while at the same time admitting you might not find the kind of woman you're looking for, but you might instead find another kind of woman that you didn't realize you were attracted to.

I definitely didn't mean to imply that you should drop your standards and start dating women who have had tons of sex. There aren't just those two extremes out there, as purplehairedwonder just mentioned.

Never do that, man. I'd like to hold out for a virgin as well, so we can learn everything together, but the older I get the less likely that seems. However, it's also been my experience that some of the women I've met over the years have attracted me for completely unexected reasons. It's my belief that if I ever meet the right woman she won't live up to my ideal "dream woman," but she'll attract me all the same.
That's ludicrous, IMO. Would that be what I'd like? Yeah. But the point in a relationship is feelings, how you relate to the person. If I want to have sex with a person, it will be MY decision based on what I think it will do for the relationship that we have, if it will deepen my feelings for the person and reflect those feelings, and so forth. I'm not a prude, but I'm not scratching an itch either. Part of me would probably be flattered if a girl wanted to have sex with me, but if it was a casual thing, I think that I'd be offended. "Dream women,?" "Mr. Right," all fairytales, IMO. Love and relationships take work. That doesn't mean that love can be reduced to a series of facts and figures, and it's why unlikely people fall in love, because love is blind. But it's not come cure-all. It's endless work (and often pain), and you've got to be ready for that and willing to commit your heart and soul and your whole self to another person. At least that what I think.I guess I really didn't phrase my response correctly.

My "dream woman" is perfect for me, both mentally and physically. It's not just looks, it's also about an engaging personality and other things that make her much more than an object of sexual attraction. I would happily spend the rest of my days with her. The woman of my dreams, however, probably doesn't exist. Will I have to "settle" for someone who doesn't meet my standards? I could, but I don't mean to say anybody SHOULD strike up a relationship based on this thought. That wasn't the advice I meant to give to Gryph, or to anybody else who read it.

I also seem to have given you the mistaken impression that sex is the reason I would seek a relationship. Not so. I completely agree with what you say about having deeper feelings, and committing heart and soul to a relationship. I've met three particular women in my life that have knocked me off my feet for reasons I never expected...none of those reasons had anything to do with sex. Their personalities trumped their need to be physically attractive...and please don't take that to mean they weren't physically attractive, because they were, but what I was much more enamored with were their personalities. I was so in love with each of them that I didn't care about my "dream woman" anymore. I never thought about it as "settling" for these women because it really wasn't. I had found in each of them something I never expected to find, like a diamond in a box of candy. Eventually, each prospective relationship never solidified because, after spending a lot of time together, we realized we weren't totally connecting on an emotional level with each other. It never made it past the kissing stage for two of them, and for the final one it never even got to that. We focused heavily on what mattered the most. It wasn't sex, it was the emotional connection between the two of us.

So in retrospect, I suppose I have no business giving Gryph or anybody else advice, because the very things I was trying to say haven't even worked for me yet. :p

purplehairedwonder

03-23-2008, 11:27 PM

My post (post 113) doesn't happen to fall in the generalization category does it? Just wanted to be sure that I was clear on it not being anti-woman.
Likewise. Most of my friends are women, I'd hope that after all the time that I spend with them, I at least attempt to understand them.No, no, I wasn't referring to either of you. And not to any post in particular, really, just more of the attitude many of the posts have had. Generalizations bad *nods*

Master Moron

03-24-2008, 01:30 AM

Don't twist what she said. Bars are not exactly the best place to meet Mr. Right. Fact. Bars are places with drinks. Fact. Most date rape drugs are slipped into drinks because the alcohol masks the taste better than non-alcoholic drinks. Fact. As a result, women usually flock together in bars for safety, and we're hypercritical of guys because we like to be safe. Most of the horror stories we hear from other women are alcohol or bar-related. We're wary by nature. Guys who have a rep for pulling girls at such events and not at others generally have the aura of, "He has to get you drunk before you'll go with him." That's not experience; that's ulterior motives when he buys you a drink.

Don't twist around what I said either. I said absolutely nothing about reputation. Though, since you seem so intent to bring it up, I will say that I think it's stupid for a guy to brag about all the girls he's slept with. It's best to shut up about that stuff. Now, can we please drop any discussion of reputation. And I didn't ask for a lecture on the evils of bars either. That is like, completely off topic.

And when does "virgin" mean "can't dress himself" or "socially awkward"?

I don't know. The 60s, maybe? Yes, there are exceptions but more often guys with more experience have more social skills. I mean, yeah, you can just naturally be a great cook without ever having to practice, but most people need practice to become a great cook. It's true that a guy can be a virgin and still have exceptional social skills, but again, that's the exception, not the rule.

If you're bitter and can't stop talking about how ashamed you are, we're going to thank you for the drink and get up and leave. If you are going to say how mean women are and how you can't find one who will accept you for who you are (which is an asshat move, since you're slamming me just so you can get shot in at all womanhood), we're also going to get up and leave, probably not thanking you for the drink since what you said was insensitive.

I agree.

Again, Master Moron, generalizations do not accomplish anything. You criticized BrendaBat for looking at relationships being akin to Family Guy, but you seem to think that you can fit people in the categories that you'd see on a sitcom (generalizing/sterotyping). If you honestly believe that everyone has the same mindset and is interchangable, then "I think you're watching too much teen sitcoms".

But, you have to work in generalizations because the exceptions are too rare to be significant. For example, take Guitar Slayer's example of talking about how bitter and ashamed you are. If 99% of women are turned off by that and 1% of women are turned on by it, doesn't it make more sense just to not do it in order to attract the 99% of women who are turned off by it?

The Guitar Slayer

03-24-2008, 01:49 AM

Don't twist around what I said either. I said absolutely nothing about reputation. Though, since you seem so intent to bring it up, I will say that I think it's stupid for a guy to brag about all the girls he's slept with. It's best to shut up about that stuff. Now, can we please drop any discussion of reputation. And I didn't ask for a lecture on the evils of bars either. That is like, completely off topic.

You dismissed Brenda's comment and basically twisted it into "Lol, you have a warped version of reality like on Family Guy." I explained to you that this was not the case, but rather that hers was very grounded in reality from a girl's perspective, particularly one that is well-aware of the risks. I stated the risks in specific. I do not see how that is off-topic given your reaction to her comment, which I had a response to.

I don't know. The 60s, maybe? Yes, there are exceptions but more often guys with more experience have more social skills. I mean, yeah, you can just naturally be a great cook without ever having to practice, but most people need practice to become a great cook. It's true that a guy can be a virgin and still have exceptional social skills, but again, that's the exception, not the rule.I utterly disagree. When I was in grade school, there were shy boys, charismatic boys, and all sorts of boys. I'll hedge my bets and say that 90%+ hadn't had sex at age 13 or so. It's who you are and not the amount of experience you have. I know some very outgoing, party-oriented guys -- the man of the hour -- and they are virgins. They know how to have a good time. Will women gravitate toward them? Yeah. Does that increase their chances for sex? Sure, but it is the man's choice to sleep with them or not.

Your logic is that, "He has had sex, so therefore he's less socially awkward and knows how to get chicks."

The better logic would be, "He's less socially awkward to start, so therefore he gets chicks, and that presents more opportunities for sex." Well, these studmuffins had to lose their virginity somehow -- how did they get chicks without the experience and without having sex? This manly man is more at ease socially, and so girls gravitate toward him. He may be a dancing fool, but hey, he looks like fun. Well, he likes this one, but not these other two, so he'll go out with her. Oh, what do you, they really hit it off. Ok, so they shagged, but eh, didn't work out. He's still the same person who managed to get the girl in the first place. In short, it's all him, not how many times he's shagged.

Antiyonder

03-24-2008, 03:06 AM

It's true that a guy can be a virgin and still have exceptional social skills, but again, that's the exception, not the rule.

So then it gives my opinion plausibility, that even the guys who have sex are still insecure. Again, sometimes (not all the time of course) the most insecure individual isn't the timid virgin, but the smooth talking sexhound. They have sex so they can brag (which you acknowledge).

But, you have to work in generalizations because the exceptions are too rare to be significant. For example, take Guitar Slayer's example of talking about how bitter and ashamed you are. If 99% of women are turned off by that and 1% of women are turned on by it, doesn't it make more sense just to not do it in order to attract the 99% of women who are turned off by it?

My comment had little to do with GS' comment and more with your generalizing as a whole. Regardless of the percentage, when you assume, you make an ass out of u and me. For example, many assume that comic book an animation fans over the age of twelve are overweight 40 year old virgins, yet it's been proven that high profile actors and stars are into the forbidden mediums:

- Robin Williams is an anime fan.
- Mark Hammil is a big comic fan.
- Ben Affleck is a fan of the Daredevil comics.
- Shaquille O'Neil is a major Superman fan.

Do any of them fit the sterotype? I think not.

Bottomline, when you make assumptions and generalizations, you only make yourself look foolish when and if those assumptions are proven untrue.

James

03-24-2008, 07:24 AM

For example, many assume that comic book an animation fans over the age of twelve are overweight 40 year old virgins, yet it's been proven that high profile actors and stars are into the forbidden mediums:

- Robin Williams is an anime fan.
- Mark Hammil is a big comic fan.
- Ben Affleck is a fan of the Daredevil comics.
- Shaquille O'Neil is a major Superman fan.

Do any of them fit the sterotype? I think not.

They don't really reflect the genre. Stereotypes largely exist for a reason - because to some extent, they reflect life. The local comic book store has a guy who is exactly like Comic Book Guy in the Simpsons, I've been to cons and seen many people who fit the nerd niche who stand up to ask embarrassing nerd questions or attempt to prove to audience and guests how good their knowledge is in some sort of territorial gesture - all of which are just crying for Shatner to yell "get a life!"

Of course that said, certainly in UK cons, there are many happy couples, and a few quite stunning regulars, so its not to tarnish everyone with the same brush, but you can see why that brush is regularly used - those people do exist in the niche, and not unsurprisingly, given if you feel under confident with life, escapism is a clear way to find comfort, so people who are under confident are more likely to be drawn to worlds of books comics and films than football and pool table tournaments.

As always, the answer is somewhere in the middle. Stars who like comics are not really representative of the comic consumer, but it would be unfair to suggest they are all 40 year old nerds, but you can see where people not in the clique might view comic book fans as being under confident/nerdy, it has long been an image which does have a certain validity even if its not quite as encompassing as the general masses believe.

It is changing, but perhaps more in the MOR spectrum; there are a lot of people who will read comics but not go up to people and say "my hobby is collecting comics", any more than someone would go up and say "my hobby is collecting books". Comics and scifi genres have a more respected mainstream because more people dabble these days as much as hardcore collect. It's not so embarrassing to have a graphic novel in your collection - cool even, but a rack of graphic novels next to a full sized image of Captain America, alongside an array of comic figures, boxed and hung delicately from your wall below a hanging $300 replica of a lightsabre probably still carries a little stigma - but not half as much as it once did! :)

TKnHappyNess

03-24-2008, 07:49 AM

What are the odds these days for running into a slut compared to running into a virgin?

Captain Zechs

03-24-2008, 10:16 AM

Yeah, I agree with GS on this one. You guys make it out that because you never had sex, you never will. Uhm...hate to break it to you, but everyone at one point was a virgin, they had to break the ice sometime. Yeah with experience you get better, but that doesn't automatically make you the one to sleep with women, it's who you are, not what you have done. If you get to that point in your life, there is a simple answer, don't be insecure, go with the flow and just be confident.

Antiyonder

03-24-2008, 02:23 PM

They don't really reflect the genre. Stereotypes largely exist for a reason - because to some extent, they reflect life. The local comic book store has a guy who is exactly like Comic Book Guy in the Simpsons, I've been to cons and seen many people who fit the nerd niche who stand up to ask embarrassing nerd questions or attempt to prove to audience and guests how good their knowledge is in some sort of territorial gesture - all of which are just crying for Shatner to yell "get a life!"

Of course that said, certainly in UK cons, there are many happy couples, and a few quite stunning regulars, so its not to tarnish everyone with the same brush, but you can see why that brush is regularly used - those people do exist in the niche, and not unsurprisingly, given if you feel under confident with life, escapism is a clear way to find comfort, so people who are under confident are more likely to be drawn to worlds of books comics and films than football and pool table tournaments.

As always, the answer is somewhere in the middle. Stars who like comics are not really representative of the comic consumer, but it would be unfair to suggest they are all 40 year old nerds, but you can see where people not in the clique might view comic book fans as being under confident/nerdy, it has long been an image which does have a certain validity even if its not quite as encompassing as the general masses believe.

It is changing, but perhaps more in the MOR spectrum; there are a lot of people who will read comics but not go up to people and say "my hobby is collecting comics", any more than someone would go up and say "my hobby is collecting books". Comics and scifi genres have a more respected mainstream because more people dabble these days as much as hardcore collect. It's not so embarrassing to have a graphic novel in your collection - cool even, but a rack of graphic novels next to a full sized image of Captain America, alongside an array of comic figures, boxed and hung delicately from your wall below a hanging $300 replica of a lightsabre probably still carries a little stigma - but not half as much as it once did! :)

Maybe sterotypes do have a bit of trurth to them, but expecting everyone to follow them is still an exercise in futility regardless. Don't judge unless you know the person personally. Otherwise, as I said, if you're assumptions are proven to be untrue, you make a fool out of yourself.

Ajax

03-24-2008, 03:10 PM

Yeah, I agree with GS on this one. You guys make it out that because you never had sex, you never will. Uhm...hate to break it to you, but everyone at one point was a virgin, they had to break the ice sometime.
Uh "who's you guys?" The only one at this point that is posting is Master, and im pretty sure he wouldn't agree that just because you never had sex, doesnt mean you never will. Thats just a silly point to make, "everyone was a vrigin at one point", that was never in question or being disputed. What is, is why people are still in there mid 20s and still havent even kissed a girl in a society were sex is common at a young age:

I utterly disagree. When I was in grade school, there were shy boys, charismatic boys, and all sorts of boys. I'll hedge my bets and say that 90%+ hadn't had sex at age 13 or so. It's who you are and not the amount of experience you have. I know some very outgoing, party-oriented guys -- the man of the hour -- and they are virgins. They know how to have a good time. Will women gravitate toward them? Yeah. Does that increase their chances for sex? Sure, but it is the man's choice to sleep with them or not.
There is a lot of guys like that, those who choose to be vrigins even though they are socially active with the other sex. But read through a lot of the early posts, ill hedge my bets that being a vrigin is something most of these guys didnt choose to be, just something they are for reason that many might consider generalizations. Its not like most of these guys are active on the dating scene and still choose to be vrigins for there own personal reasons. I think thats what MM was getting at. It seems like most of these guys are making excuses for themselves as to why they are still vrigins and are hiding behind them. If thats a generalization then so be it, ive lived long enough and meet enough people to know that. Im not saying im any better when it comes to contact with the opposite sex, its just funny to see them defend there status as virgins, as if it needed defending.

PRdude

03-24-2008, 05:51 PM

Don't get me wrong, it's good to read women, but you also need to make sure to build up the momentum. Part of reading women is making a move and seeing how they react.

In trying to demonstrate that you're not unsure of yourself you have only further demonstrated that you are unsure of yourself. It's GOOD to think that all women want you. Part of how other people perceive you is how you perceive yourself. If you perceive yourself as desirable to women then you will have a better chance of being desirable to women.

And you know, you seem to be taking offense at what I'm telling you. I'm not trying to upset you, I'm trying to help you. But, you seem to be completely dismissive of other people's suggestions.

Yep, you did it again. Twisted up my words every which way. I could explain until I'm blue in the face, and you still wouldn't get it. Good day.

BrendaBat

03-25-2008, 12:36 AM

Originally posted by Master Moron
I seriously laughed out loud at this post. I'm not trying to be rude, but if you think all guys with experience are rapists I think you're watching too much Family Guy. And its not about having a reputation, it's about knowing what to wear, what to say, what to do. You're far more likely to fall for a guy who has experience than a virgin because guys with experience know how to attract women.
I don’t think that all men who aren’t virgins are out to rape me (if I did, I wouldn’t have many male friends). I was just letting you know that most girls avoid guys with a reputation of banging 3 girls a week (like that roommate you put up on a pedestal :p) out of sheer self-preservation. Girls know that most guys who sleep with that many girls tend to view them as sex objects, not people. They’re rarely conflicted about taking a girl to bed even if she’s had too much to drink and can’t really consent. And, since they’re used to gettin’ some at the end of a date, they sometimes won’t take no for an answer. And even when they do settle with one girlfriend/wife, they often cheat because, y’know, old habits die hard. :shrug:

That explanation may seem paranoid and a bit judgmental to you. But you have to look at it from a girl’s perspective. Like Guitar Slayer said, we flock together in bars, clubs, and parties for safety. And smart girls are hyper critical of guys with reputations for trolling parties for one-night-stands because those guys are more likely to put something in your drink than the shy, less “experienced” dudes.

And before you say anything; I know that players can be total gentlemen and shy virgins can be closet psychopaths. The exception doesn't make the rule any less valid. :p

Master Moron

03-25-2008, 01:36 AM

I don’t think that all men who aren’t virgins are out to rape me (if I did, I wouldn’t have many male friends). I was just letting you know that most girls avoid guys with a reputation of banging 3 girls a week (like that roommate you put up on a pedestal :p) out of sheer self-preservation. Girls know that most guys who sleep with that many girls tend to view them as sex objects, not people. They’re rarely conflicted about taking a girl to bed even if she’s had too much to drink and can’t really consent. And, since they’re used to gettin’ some at the end of a date, they sometimes won’t take no for an answer. And even when they do settle with one girlfriend/wife, they often cheat because, y’know, old habits die hard. :shrug:

That explanation may seem paranoid and a bit judgmental to you. But you have to look at it from a girl’s perspective. Like Guitar Slayer said, we flock together in bars, clubs, and parties for safety. And smart girls are hyper critical of guys with reputations for trolling parties for one-night-stands because those guys are more likely to put something in your drink than the shy, less “experienced” dudes.

And before you say anything; I know that players can be total gentlemen and shy virgins can be closet psychopaths. The exception doesn't make the rule any less valid. :p

Hey, don't get me wrong. If you want to deflower virgins, then I say that's pretty awesome. I wish girls would go for guys with less experience more often. But, in my experience girls like that are relatively rare.

Zeonic Freak

03-25-2008, 09:13 AM

Hey, don't get me wrong. If you want to deflower virgins, then I say that's pretty awesome. I wish girls would go for guys with less experience more often. But, in my experience girls like that are relatively rare.

It seems human nature to be around people who "are in the spot light" and follow behind them. When theres a leader, people follow them. So its nature for women to be around the guy who gets everyones attention than the guy in the back of the bar praying that a girl will talk to him.

Ive learned that im probably the type that should approach women when i need a date than to just sit there and look pathetic and hope they come to me. Then again probably the women im around/ attracted to just dont know i exsist unless i say something.

Im more or less the guy who is outgoing when i wanna be. I may not get the spot light, but i do my best to get noticed in a conversation and what not. Maybe im more noticed than i think i am...

The Guitar Slayer

03-25-2008, 12:19 PM

Hey, don't get me wrong. If you want to deflower virgins, then I say that's pretty awesome. I wish girls would go for guys with less experience more often. But, in my experience girls like that are relatively rare.

OK, you're missing the point. Again. We are not psychic. We don't know how many girls a boy has shagged. We also don't ask for a count of notches on his bedpost. THAT DOES NOT MATTER. We gravitate toward people who are more at ease socially and are having fun instead of hanging back. If they're a virgin, who cares? If they're not, who cares? Probably just the boy, honestly.

Honestly, do you really think that we look at guys and say, "Hmm, virgin. Nope, not a virgin. Oh, God, he's fresh out of a frickin' monastery." ? Really. Girls are awesome and the like, but sorry, we're not that magnificent in virgin detection unless they're wearing a sign. Fact of the matter is, people that aren't attractive to us may be very attractive to someone else. "Oh, he's too short." Well, maybe he got some lovin' from some Amazon that likes short guys. "Ugh, bald." Mr. Clean was built, yo. Anyone can be a virgin, and anyone can be a Sex God, be it some Johnny Depp or some normal Joe.

In short, we all don't like the same things. Nor do we automatically eliminate someone from the dating pool because they haven't had sex.

Also, there are very few girls in the world that will go up to a guy to hit on him. I'm one of those few. However, I'm far from the rule. Generally, girls will lounge around and wait for the boy to approach her. So go go go, boys. You dig her, go talk to her. If you have that confidence, go for it.

Master Moron

03-25-2008, 04:45 PM

OK, you're missing the point. Again. We are not psychic. We don't know how many girls a boy has shagged. We also don't ask for a count of notches on his bedpost. [

I'm not missing the point. That is my point. You're not psychic. Even if you say you aren't attracted to men with experience, it is far more likely that you will be attracted to one with experience. Because, as you said, you're not psychic.

Captain Zechs

03-25-2008, 05:24 PM

...what? She is saying how the hell does she know if they have experience or not? If she doesn't know, how can she be attracted to them if they have or don't have experience...

Master Moron

03-25-2008, 11:40 PM

...what? She is saying how the hell does she know if they have experience or not? If she doesn't know, how can she be attracted to them if they have or don't have experience...

Sigh...okay, let me try to explain this one more time. Guitar Slayer said:

We gravitate toward people who are more at ease socially and are having fun instead of hanging back.

Now, what type of guy is most likely to be the most at ease socially around women and the most fun for women to be around? Probably someone with experience. Is that always the case? Of course not. That's a generalization. But, like most generalizations, it's true to an extent.

I've used too many cooking examples, so I'll use something else. Who is most likely to be a good fisher? Someone who's caught a fish before. Is that always the case? No. Someone can know a lot about fishing without ever catching a fish. But, most great fishers have caught fish before. It's a generalization that good fishers have caught fish, but it's also usually true. Does that mean that if you haven't caught a fish you'll never catch a fish? Of course not, that would be ridiculous. But, if two people are fishing and one of them has never caught a fish before and one has, it is far more likely that the one who has caught a fish before will catch a fish than the one who has never caught a fish before. There are exceptions, but usually the general rule is true.

Now, most guys who have slept with many different women know a lot about attracting women. Yes, it's true that a virgin can be great at attracting women. But, like the fisherman who has never caught a fish but is still great at fishing, that is the exception, not the rule.

Antiyonder

03-25-2008, 11:54 PM

Now, what type of guy is most likely to be the most at ease socially around women and the most fun for women to be around? Probably someone with experience. Is that always the case? Of course not. That's a generalization. But, like most generalizations, it's true to an extent.

I've used too many cooking examples, so I'll use something else. Who is most likely to be a good fisher? Someone who's caught a fish before. Is that always the case? No. Someone can know a lot about fishing without ever catching a fish. But, most great fishers have caught fish before. It's a generalization that good fishers have caught fish, but it's also usually true. Does that mean that if you haven't caught a fish you'll never catch a fish? Of course not, that would be ridiculous. But, if two people are fishing and one of them has never caught a fish before and one has, it is far more likely that the one who has caught a fish before will catch a fish than the one who has never caught a fish before. There are exceptions, but usually the general rule is true.

Now, most guys who have slept with many different women know a lot about attracting women. Yes, it's true that a virgin can be great at attracting women. But, like the fisherman who has never caught a fish but is still great at fishing, that is the exception, not the rule.

At least you're acknowledging that some generalizations are occasional false. The best attitude to have is to have an opinion on something, but be open to the possibility that you may be wrong.

Another example of generalizations is that the majority of crimes/theft are pulled off by a drunken hygenically challenged bum, when some criminals might actually be well kept and sober.

Romanesque

03-25-2008, 11:56 PM

. . .

You're still confusing conditional probabilities and cause & effect relations, to the extent that I'm beginning to wonder if you really know what you're trying to argue. The bad analogies aren't helping either.

--Romey

G. Wen

03-28-2008, 12:38 AM

Now, what type of guy is most likely to be the most at ease socially around women and the most fun for women to be around? Probably someone with experience. Is that always the case? Of course not. That's a generalization. But, like most generalizations, it's true to an extent.

O.K., O.K., O.K., I'll have a go at it. (I'm a 24 yr. old woman, just letting you know where I'm coming from.) What type of guys are more socially at ease with women? Guys with more social experience. This may or may not involve or lead to sex. Drunk guys are at ease with women too, but we're obviously not talking about those guys. Guys who go out, meet people, talk, hang out, develop hobbies, etc., those guys are more socially apt, and none of those things have to do with sex. Sex is a private matter, being socially apt isn't. Anyone who participates in any social scene (not necessarily dating) will pick up social cues, learn proper manners, learn how to dress for the occasion, and learn how to communicate. Again, none of those things involve sex. Knowing you can stand out and hold your own in a social scene gives you confidence, again nothing to do with sex. It may (or may not) lead to sex, but one doesn't need to have lots of sex to know how to behave around women. My advice to shy guys: just talk to girls. Don't worry about kissing, sex, or pit stains. Just talk to them. You may botch it up at first, but it's worth it. You'll meet many new friends that way. Maybe even a girlfriend you can have sex with.:p

Here's an example: what type of children are more socially at ease with other children (I'm talking about 5 yr. olds here, both male and female interacting with each other)? Those who are in more social situations. So if you see a 5 yr. old boy playing confidently with a group of kids (vs. the wallflower), you know it's because he's participated in more social situations, not because he's had more sex.