Classic Cartoons and Awful Spinoffs.

[Super Leviathan]

Out of Popeye, Tom and Jerry and the Looney Tunes, which of these three classic cartoon series have had their legacies tarnished by the most awful after-the-fact spinoffs.

Here's the tally for each series

Looney Tunes
Space Jam
The Larry Doyle Shorts
Baby Looney Tunes
Loonatics

Tom and Jerry

Gene Deitch Theatricals
1975 Hanna-Barbera show (with Grape Ape, and Muttl-er, I mean "Mumby")
1980 Filmation show
Tom and Jerry Kids
Tom and Jerry: The Movie

Popeye
KFS made-for-TV shorts
1978 Hanna-Barbera show
Popeye and Son
2004 Popeye CGI Special

[Daikun]

Don't forget Looney Tunes: Back in Action and the DTV Tom & Jerry movies.

[Zorak Masaki]

dont forget yogi bear (yogi's gang,yo yogi) and the flintstones (flintstone kids).

[Joe]

There' s also the rarely seen Droopy: Master Detective.

Not to mention the New Woody Woodpecker Show

[Napoleon Solo]

I'll just say I was never a fan of turning toons into kids or shooting them into outer space....well, maybe Josie in Outer Space was ok. :)

[Dr.Pepper]

Tom & Jerry had some of the worst spin-offs. Like Tom & Jerry kids:ack:

[DrTooth]

Looney Tunes
Space Jam
The Larry Doyle Shorts
Baby Looney Tunes
Loonatics



To be fair, I think that Loonatics and Baby Looney Tunes (the TV show) were the worst things to happen to LT. Space Jam was enjoyable, if a 90 minute sneaker commercial. And let's not forget the other Spinoff TV shows, Taz-Mania, Sylvester and Tweety Mysteries, Duck Dodgers, Tiny Toons. While they can't hold up to the classics (and frankly, what could?) they were still hillarious, enjoyable, and they captured the spirit of the old cartoons (albiet in odd forms). Loonatics was corporate synargy at its worst. Taking a famous brand and hipping up for an imaginary audience that doesn't even care. And it thankfully backfired. only 2 seasons, with a huge shake up season 2 (to try to make it more palatable). not even so much as a piece of merchandising, which is clearly what they were rally aiming at. Baby Looney Tunes was much more than just Baby-ification. they outright stole the entire project from Muppet Babies. Execpt of course the great writing, and memorable use of characters.

Any given franchise is bound to have one or 2 horrible stains on it.

[BartWinkle]

I voted for Popeye. Saw the KFS ones for a number of years, but in '78 when WPTT-22 in Pittsburgh [now My Pittsburgh TV] showed the black-and-white Popeyes, along with the color Famous ones, I thought they made the KFS shorts [which WTAE-4 showed in the '60s and '70s] look like nothing.

[hobbyfan]

I voted for Tom & Jerry. However, I have to take issue on the following:

The Gene Deitch shorts are actually a continuation, not a spinoff, per se. To suggest otherwise would be to suggest that Deitch's work on Popeye was similarly considered, and it isn't.

That having been said, let's then consider how T & J have been hamstrung by FCC rules on violence over the years. This adversely affected both the 1975 (Hanna-Barbera) and 1980 (Filmation) series, as the plots were, shall we say, dumbed down. The current T & J Tales series is a return to the classic form, but its future is now clouded because of 4Kwacks taking over the CW Saturday lineup in September.

[DrTooth]

The current T & J Tales series is a return to the classic form, but its future is now clouded because of 4Kwacks taking over the CW Saturday lineup in September.

Firstly, I can't so much blame 4Kids for "taking over" since it was CBS and Warner's (more CBS, though) idea to relinquish the block in order to confound the stockholders and loyal viewers. And it's future is more in doubt due to Warner's wanting to get out of the Tv animation feild. Just correcting there.

I think T&J had a hard time until this series, actually. Other than compilation syndicated shows, they failed to capture the magic of the series. I know a lot of people dislike the Chuck Jones cartoons, and lambaste him for it, but I think he did a good job there. HB's T&J was dull, and played second to lame cartoon characters like Grape Ape. Filmation's T&J (as well as the Droopy Shorts) were plagued by limited (very limited) animation. But this new series really makes up for years of problems trying to revive the project, be they DTV's and Babifications.

[DarthGonzo]

Firstly, I can't so much blame 4Kids for "taking over" since it was CBS and Warner's (more CBS, though) idea to relinquish the block in order to confound the stockholders and loyal viewers. And it's future is more in doubt due to Warner's wanting to get out of the Tv animation feild. Just correcting there.

I think T&J had a hard time until this series, actually. Other than compilation syndicated shows, they failed to capture the magic of the series. I know a lot of people dislike the Chuck Jones cartoons, and lambaste him for it, but I think he did a good job there. HB's T&J was dull, and played second to lame cartoon characters like Grape Ape. Filmation's T&J (as well as the Droopy Shorts) were plagued by limited (very limited) animation. But this new series really makes up for years of problems trying to revive the project, be they DTV's and Babifications.

Definitely.

Honestly, T&J Tales really isn't all that bad. The second season has been a huge step up after the somewhat lame first season's shows. The character designs look better, the music sounds better and the plots feels a lot more like classic era cartoons most of the time. The Spike Brant and Tony Cervone directed episodes are actually incredibly good and the designs of Tom and Jerry in those cartoons look like they stepped right out of the 1948-49 era H-B period.

Anyone catch the cartoon "Kitty Cat Blues" that aired several weeks ago? It's a basic retread of Zoot Cat to be sure but it earns tremendous props for using a old-school Tom design, with a scruffier look and a facial design harking back to the early 1940s.

I really hope this gets renewed somehow, because I'd love to see what else they can do with this show.

[DrTooth]

Honestly, T&J Tales really isn't all that bad. The second season has been a huge step up after the somewhat lame first season's shows. The character designs look better, the music sounds better and the plots feels a lot more like classic era cartoons most of the time. The Spike Brant and Tony Cervone directed episodes are actually incredibly good and the designs of Tom and Jerry in those cartoons look like they stepped right out of the 1948-49 era H-B period.

Anyone catch the cartoon "Kitty Cat Blues" that aired several weeks ago? It's a basic retread of Zoot Cat to be sure but it earns tremendous props for using a old-school Tom design, with a scruffier look and a facial design harking back to the early 1940s.

I thought the first season episodes were pretty good, myself. But they've definately improved. The Cat and Mouse duo really had a hard time adapting beyond the original concept in almost every aspect. I admit, the Gene Diectches were pretty lousy, but compared to some of the stuff they tried on television... YIKES. 'specially the filmation stuff.

[Kitschensyngk]

I don't know why I watched Tom and Jerry Kids when I was young. It looks so bland in retrospect.

Yogi's Gang was HORRIBLE. Every Hanna-Barbera character under the sun on a very-much-the-opposite-of-subtle moral crusade. I have a theory that in 1973 Yogi was arrested for snatching the wrong picnic basket, and this was his community service.

Flintstone Kids was just as bad. Those Captain Caveman and Son segments were abysmal.

I could also never sit through A Pup Named Scooby-Doo.

Actually, pretty much any spin-off series featuring younger versions of beloved characters aside from Muppet Babies has no reason to exist other than to push the pre-established brand. I'm lookin' at you, Baby Looney Tunes.

[Darklordavaitor]

I really hope this gets renewed somehow, because I'd love to see what else they can do with this show.
Me too. I agree here, best verison of the Cat and Mouse since Bill & Joe left MGM.

[Zorak Masaki]

Not sure it counts (since its a license) but would the thing cartoon from the late 70s count as a spinoff? From reading some ep descriptions back in the day it sounds awful, im surprised marvel allowed them to make it.

[Kazuya Prower]

Popeye got lamer after the theatrical shorts ended its run. He still wore his white navy clothes, the violence was toned down, he gotten a little soft and he always cracked corny jokes. I'm surprised they still let him have the corncob pipe.

[Blackstar]

Looney Tunes
Space Jam
The Larry Doyle Shorts
Baby Looney Tunes
Loonatics

I guess I'm in the minority here, as I didn't think Space Jam was all that bad. Sure, it was basically a 90 minute Nike commercial, but it's one of my mother's all time favorite movies (mainly because she's a Michael Jordan fan).

Anyway, a movie doesn't really count as a spinoff in my book. Space Jam at the very least had a real story as opposed to being a hodge podge of shorts made at different times by different directors spliced together with some original linking material.

Baby Looney Tunes was just a babyfication, and like most babyfications, the less said about it, the better. It was a flat out ripoff of Jim Henson's Muppet Babies, right down to having casting Granny as Nanny.

I don't consider Loonatics Unleashed to be a spinoff either; it's more of a Next-Gen show, as the main characters were not the original Looney Tunes, but futuristic descendants thereof. The idea of the Looney Tunes gang as super heroes might not have been a bad idea, but it should have been a straight forward comedy, not a action/adventure/comedy. I like Looney Tunes, and I like super hero shows, but I don't want to see an action show starring LT-esque characters. That's 2 great tastes that taste weird together.

[Still HowardFein]

Popeye got lamer after the theatrical shorts ended its run. He still wore his white navy clothes, the violence was toned down, he gotten a little soft and he always cracked corny jokes. I'm surprised they still let him have the corncob pipe.

IMO, Popeye got lamer after WWII, a couple of years into the Famous regime. As far as the violence quotient, it was still pretty high in the 1960s KFS TV cartoons- especially the Jack Kinney episodes. (One of them, After the Ball Went Over ends with him blown to smithereens after his nitroglycerin-filled ping-pong ball backfires: "If only the writers would let me have me spinachk back.") The CBS Saturday AM H-B adaptations had to tone down the violence, starting in 1978 as they did. Slapstick TV violence in itself was dramatically toned down at the cusp of the 1960s and 1970s.

BTW, Popeyewas allowed to keep his pipe for the 1978-81 H-B series, but it was made explicitely clear in one PSA interstitial that it was only for tooting:confused: - not for smoking. If I remember, the pipe was completely absent in POPEYE & SON, understandably his last cel-animated series.

Not previously mentioned in this thread is 1984's PINK PANTHER & SONS, 'co-produced' by Freleng (reportedly his last project) and H-B for NBC Saturday AM in 1984. Pink was reduced to a supporting/cameo player in stories otherwise devoted to his sons and their friends- who were also Panthers. At the time, it struck me odd that Pinky and Panky would have a father who never talked- at least on screen.

How to define a spin-off series versus a continuation/revival can be tricky. The Panther (the ill-conceived 1993 syndicated version in which he was voiced by Matt Frewer), THE JETSONS, THE CHIPMUNKS, BABY HUEY, MIGHTY MOUSE, WHAT'S NEW MISTER MAGOO, and the many Yogi and Scooby permutations seem more like continuations than spinoffs. PEBBLES & BAMM-BAMM, THE NEW FRED & BARNEY SHOW and some segments of THE FLINTSTONE COMEDY SHOW could be counted as continuations, as they are somewhat canonical. FLINTSTONE KIDS, which destroys most Bedrock continuity, qualifies as spinoff- or maybe 'prequel'.

As far as lousy spinoffs/revivals, CASPER & THE ANGELS is right down there: ridiculous 'trendy' format, obligatory misplaced H-B laughtrack, annoying voice by Julie McWhirter. The Universal adaptation of the series made for FOX after the hit 1995 theatrical was much better. It retained many basic conventions and made fun of them at the same time. MIGHTY MOUSE: THE NEW ADVENTURES, A PUP NAMED SCOOBY-DOO, SYLVESTER & TWEETY MYSTERIES, and to a lesser extent MUPPET BABIES, adhered to this practice.

Never cared for the 1979 Filmation revival of Mighty Mouse, although the Heckel & Jeckel episodes were a bit better. Most TV revivals of :tomcat: :jerry: seem to have missed the mark in one way or the other. While I haven't watched the latest Saturday AM WB revival, some have said it best adheres to the MGM/Quimby glory years. A loosening of anti-violence standards for TV cartoons in recent years may have helped.

A very early, and bizarre spinoff was 1964's FAMOUS ADVENTURES OF MISTER MAGOO, made for NBC's prime-time schedule in an apparent response to the huge success of the CHRISTMAS CAROL special. The ADVENTURES were straight, virtually humorless adaptations of literary properties with no reference to Magoo's nearsightedness. If nothing else, it showed Jim Backus was equally adept performing dramatic material as comedic. NBC dropped the series after one season, but it reran in syndication for many years- often in an early pre-network feed Saturday AM slot.

Disney seems to have done well with most of its spinoffs of the classic characters, DUCK TALES the best and QUACK PACK the worst.

An attempt to view a couple of minutes of CN's new Canadian-made GEORGE OF THE JUNGLE made me appreciate the Jay Ward original that much more. Violent and deliberately corny yes- but Ward, Bill Scott and the ABC censors circa 1967 would never resort to bathroom humor, which seems de riguer in modern cartoons.

[DrTooth]

I guess I'm in the minority here, as I didn't think Space Jam was all that bad. Sure, it was basically a 90 minute Nike commercial, but it's one of my mother's all time favorite movies (mainly because she's a Michael Jordan fan).

I have to admit, Space jam is a movie you hate until you watch it again. It isn't terrible, outside of the athletes's acting (or lack thereof). And I really think that Dan Akroyd...errr... Bill Murray should have had more scenes alone with the LT gang. Plus, I love how they blended both arrogant, egotistical Daffy with the Bob Clampett-esque wacky Daffy. Something that they rarely attempt.

Baby Looney Tunes was just a babyfication, and like most babyfications, the less said about it, the better. It was a flat out ripoff of Jim Henson's Muppet Babies, right down to having casting Granny as Nanny.

A terrible knockoff at that. With a Pup named Scooby Doo, Flintstone Kids, and even Tom and Jerry Kids, they at least went with their original formats. Kiddy Scooby was still chasing Ghosts, Young Freddy Flintstone was in a roughly sitcom-ish situation, and Baby Tom still chased Baby Jerry. Baby Looney Tunes was just a knockoff of Muppet Babies, but without the great writing, catchy songs, and lovable characters. A show about baby Plucky Duck would have been a lot more interresting, anyway. Plus, the Muppets they used in Muppet babies didn't always try to eat each other. Animal did try to take a bite out of Rita Moreno, however.

The idea of the Looney Tunes gang as super heroes might not have been a bad idea, but it should have been a straight forward comedy, not a action/adventure/comedy. I like Looney Tunes, and I like super hero shows, but I don't want to see an action show starring LT-esque characters. That's 2 great tastes that taste weird together.

I feel with this show, the potential to be a parody was lost. They had the chance to have Bugs and co satirize action shows (Similar to what they did with Duck Dodgers, which at least worked on that level). But giving action heroes similar names, similar personalities, and similar designs, but not enough comedy was a huge mistake. And even as an action series, there wasn't anything I haven't seen a hundred other places (done better too). I respect that second season (which, hate to admit, was slightly tolerable) they tried to pare the characters up with their old enemies as supervillains, but it was an idea that was too little, too late. I will say this, the Sylvester and Tweety episode was great. Had the rest of the series been like that, they would have had something.

Never cared for the 1979 Filmation revival of Mighty Mouse, although the Heckel & Jeckel episodes were a bit better. Most TV revivals of :tomcat: :jerry: seem to have missed the mark in one way or the other. While I haven't watched the latest Saturday AM WB revival, some have said it best adheres to the MGM/Quimby glory years. A loosening of anti-violence standards for TV cartoons in recent years may have helped.

I think their Mighty Mouse was pretty good. But of course, I haven't seen them in years (wish someone would put it on Youtube). The Heckle and Jeckles were alright, but hardly the classics they once were. I think Frank pretty much had to act the hell out of those scripts to keep the show from being a total loss, though.

As for the new T&J, I think they found a perfect mix of keeping the old spirit, putting them in some modern settings (from time to time), and holding to our frankly rediculous non-viloence standards. It isn't quite as abrasively violent as the originals, but it actually doesn't seem to matter. But it never is bland either. Tom gets quite a few lumps, and his head, rest assured, takes on various shapes of various objects that smack into him.

[80's guy]

Here's the tally for each series

Looney Tunes
Space Jam
The Larry Doyle Shorts
Baby Looney Tunes
Loonatics

Tom and Jerry

Gene Deitch Theatricals
1975 Hanna-Barbera show (with Grape Ape, and Muttl-er, I mean "Mumby")
1980 Filmation show
Tom and Jerry Kids
Tom and Jerry: The Movie

Popeye
KFS made-for-TV shorts
1978 Hanna-Barbera show
Popeye and Son
2004 Popeye CGI Special

Those are not spin-offs
Spin-offs, are when they created another show to follow the show success, or when a character became popular they give them their own show.

I don't count them as spinoffs


Can't believe someone hate the Flinstones Kids, I use to watch it. I had also watch a Pup name Scooby Doo.

[DrTooth]

Flintstone Kids was decent, and I really enjoyed Pup named Scooby Doo (I think I watched that well before I watched the original, actually). I think the biggest problem was "Yo Yogi"

[Toony Loon]

I agree with every one of the Looney Tunes spin-offs.
Space Jam – ugh. Just hearing the name makes me shudder. Michael Jordan and Bugs Bunny do not make a good comedy team.
Baby Looney Tunes – I just want to cry for all the kids who saw this instead of the original classics. The Looney Tunes gang went from being rebellious, rude, anti-Disney wise-guys to droll, caring, young, cute (AAAAAGH!), Barney-esque little kids!
Loonatics – Oh, sure. Turn somewhat selfish animals into super-heroes, what's more, making Road Runner talk (As Chuck Jones said: No dialogue except "Beep Beep")! Thank goodness it failed…
Larry Doyle shorts – The absolute worst theatrical shorts with the Looney Tunes. Extreme, horrible-to-look-at-or-even-think-about violence and awful writing and timing.

As for the Popeyes – The KFS 60's toons were mostly awful, but there were 1 or 2 good ones.
The HB shorts I haven't seen, but with no violence, and no Popeye and Bluto fighting over Olive Oyl, they don't look that great.
Popeye and Son – Saw one minute, nearly gagged. Olive couldn't stand to bee married to Popeye, even though she loves him. And they seem to have forgotten that Popeye's son is Swee'pea.
The new 2004 movie, I found to be not too bad, but did they have to make it in CGI? It would've looked better with cel animation.

[Silverstar]

Loonatics – Oh, sure. Turn somewhat selfish animals into super-heroes, what's more, making Road Runner talk (As Chuck Jones said: No dialogue except "Beep Beep")! Thank goodness it failed…

I'm not coming to Loonatics' defense or anything, but the LU writers weren't breaking the established rules of the LT characters since the Loonatics were technically not the Looney Tunes; they were the descendants of the LTs, so it was more or less a next-gen type show like Tiny Toons, only not as good, of course.

Also, not to drag this out, but I don't consider Space Jam, Baby Looney Tunes or Loonatics Unleashed to be spinoffs. Space Jam was a conscious attempt to cash in on the popularity of the Michael Jordon/Bugs Bunny Nike ads, Baby Looney Tunes was just another babyfication of a popular franchise which, like most babyfications, existed outside of the established continuity, and Loonatics was an ill-conceived attempt to create a wannabe-cool superhero action figure franchise by slapping lookalikes of established cartoon stars onto it.

[Tobias]

Popeye and Son ? Saw one minute, nearly gagged. Olive couldn't stand to bee married to Popeye, even though she loves him. And they seem to have forgotten that Popeye's son is Swee'pea.

The sad thing is, that if it weren't for the opening credits showing Junior's birth, he could have EASILY been dubbed an aged Swee'pea, only going by Junior now, since what 12 year old boy would want to be called Swee'pea?

[CelesteK]

I think Tom and Jerry Tales is terrible. It has nothing going for it and the animation is terrible. Shaggy and Scooby Doo Get A Clue is just unforgivable, and so is the new George of the Jungle cartoon.

Everything nowadays just isn't catered to the "old fart" generations of kids who watched the acutal cartoons instead of these, what I like to call, remake fakes.

[Silverstar]

I think Tom and Jerry Tales is terrible. It has nothing going for it and the animation is terrible. Shaggy and Scooby Doo Get A Clue is just unforgivable, and so is the new George of the Jungle cartoon.

Everything nowadays just isn't catered to the "old fart" generations of kids who watched the acutal cartoons instead of these, what I like to call, remake fakes.

I can't comment on Tom & Jerry Tales or Shaggy and Scooby-Doo Get A Clue because I've personally never seen them, but the new George of the Jungle show isn't all that bad, IMHO, provided that you don't constantly compare to Jay Ward's original. Does it live up to its' predecessor? No, but as a stand-alone series, it's amusing enough and it works in its' own right. JMPO, though.

[CelesteK]

I can't comment on Tom & Jerry Tales or Shaggy and Scooby-Doo Get A Clue because I've personally never seen them, but the new George of the Jungle show isn't all that bad, IMHO, provided that you don't constantly compare to Jay Ward's original. Does it live up to its' predecessor? No, but as a stand-alone series, it's amusing enough and it works in its' own right. JMPO, though.

And you're perfectly entitled to your opinion.

This just begs the question: "What the hell did Mr Ward do to deserve having his cartoons remade so badly?"?

I'm 31, and I'm not a cartoonist, but I know what I like.

http://www.coldhardflash.com/images/grg-jngle-stb.jpg

This isn't it.

Poor Jay must be rolling over in his grave right about now.

[Silverstar]

This just begs the question: "What the hell did Mr Ward do to deserve having his cartoons remade so badly?"?

I'm 31, and I'm not a cartoonist, but I know what I like.

http://www.coldhardflash.com/images/grg-jngle-stb.jpg

This isn't it.

Poor Jay must be rolling over in his grave right about now.

Well, Jay Ward's daughter approved the series, IIRC.

But as I said previously, the new George isn't all that terrible, at least not to me, as long as you try to think of it as its' own thing and not in comparison to the original. As remakes go, I've seen far worse. Tom & Jerry Kids and Yo, Yogi! come to mind. I'd personally rather watch a marathon of this new GotJ than a single installment of either of those shows.

[DrTooth]

I can agree with George. That was a terrible idea, and they totally changed everything, losing the appeal, making it like EVERYTHING else in the process. Tom and Jerry Tales at least captures the original spirit of the old cartoons, which was lost in trasnlation for TV versions, and even for 90% of the other Post MGM cartoons. I like the Chuck Jones ones, and the Gene Dietch ones aren't too terrible. But they really seem to know how the old cartoons work. They could have made them a ninja team for no apparent reason, and they don't even chase each other.

And Shaggy and Scooby? Well, every so often they had to change the SD formula. They've been doing this since the 70's, with Laff-a-lypics, Scrappy Doo (the horrible ones where they just get chaced around by random giant musclar guys because Scrappy eggs them on), and 13 Ghosts. The 2 prior shows, Pup Named Scooby Doo and What's New Scooby Doo, both followed the formula. That's why Scooby has been an ever green character. And the other thing to mention is, these forumla changes don't last long anyway.

I admit, I like it, though they really should have got someone else besides Scott Menville to do Shaggy's voice. Billy West or someone. Cuz his whiney new voice just sounds like nails on a chalkboard.

[hobbyfan]

I can agree with George. That was a terrible idea, and they totally changed everything, losing the appeal, making it like EVERYTHING else in the process. Tom and Jerry Tales at least captures the original spirit of the old cartoons, which was lost in trasnlation for TV versions, and even for 90% of the other Post MGM cartoons. I like the Chuck Jones ones, and the Gene Dietch ones aren't too terrible. But they really seem to know how the old cartoons work. They could have made them a ninja team for no apparent reason, and they don't even chase each other.

And that's why T & J Tales works so well. You have to hope 4Kwacks has enough sense to keep it around in the fall.

And Shaggy and Scooby? Well, every so often they had to change the SD formula. They've been doing this since the 70's, with Laff-a-lypics, Scrappy Doo (the horrible ones where they just get chaced around by random giant musclar guys because Scrappy eggs them on), and 13 Ghosts. The 2 prior shows, Pup Named Scooby Doo and What's New Scooby Doo, both followed the formula. That's why Scooby has been an ever green character. And the other thing to mention is, these forumla changes don't last long anyway.

I admit, I like it, though they really should have got someone else besides Scott Menville to do Shaggy's voice. Billy West or someone. Cuz his whiney new voice just sounds like nails on a chalkboard.

It's already been proven that West wouldn't be a long term answer, either (Zombie Island). You want someone other than Casey Kasem as Shaggy? Well, what's Matt Lilliard doing these days? He nailed the Shagster in the 2 live-action movies perfectly.

[DrTooth]

And that's why T & J Tales works so well. You have to hope 4Kwacks has enough sense to keep it around in the fall.



This is getting revolting. If Warners decided to cancel the show this year, it wouldn't have anything to do with 4Kids, just their own selfishness and incompetance. 4Kids would probably keep the show going, but only as reruns. If there's a 3rd season, and there really should be, they'd probably air it, as long as it's being produced, and 4Kids can afford it.

It's already been proven that West wouldn't be a long term answer, either (Zombie Island). You want someone other than Casey Kasem as Shaggy? Well, what's Matt Lilliard doing these days? He nailed the Shagster in the 2 live-action movies perfectly.

I'm sure that they have multiple other alternate Shaggy VO's, since they clearly wanted Casey to play the Uncle. I think Scott was a bad choice. He really just seemed to be doing a Shaggy impersonation, and not a very good one. A shame, since he is a great voice actor in his own right.

[Senshi Mizaka]

I wouldn't call the ones on that list "Spin-offs". But, the expanding on a successful franchise with bad ideas and movies are turn-offs.

As much as I love Tom & Jerry, I haven't seen the newer stuff. Nor do I plan on ruining the memories I already have.

Looney Toons on the other hand, has been getting screwed over with awful movies and newer series. I saw one episode of Loonatics, and it was pure garbage. So, my vote goes to that.

[Silverstar]

Looney Toons on the other hand, has been getting screwed over with awful movies and newer series. I saw one episode of Loonatics, and it was pure garbage. So, my vote goes to that.

I don't consider Loonatics Unleashed to be a spinoff either, since those weren't actually the Looney Tunes characters, but rather descendants/lookalikes thereof. So it was really more of a 'next gen' show than a true spinoff. In any event, it's gone now.

[CelesteK]

As far as I'm concerned George is ruined for me. It's not just the animation that ruined it for me it's the sub-par voice work that ruined it for me too.
I'd rather watch the old cartoons just because that's what I remember as George of the Jungle.
If they were to make a Tom Slick or a Super Chicken movie I would be just horrified. :sad:

[Blackstar]

As far as I'm concerned George is ruined for me. It's not just the animation that ruined it for me it's the sub-par voice work that ruined it for me too.
I'd rather watch the old cartoons just because that's what I remember as George of the Jungle.
If they were to make a Tom Slick or a Super Chicken movie I would be just horrified. :sad:


As much as I love Tom & Jerry, I haven't seen the newer stuff. Nor do I plan on ruining the memories I already have.

Well, just because a show is on, that doesn't mean that you have to watch it. The new George and Tom & Jerry Tales will never top the originals, but my childhood memories haven't been ruined because of them. Personally, I think that the main (if not only) reason the new GotJ gets so much hate is because it dares to be a remake. Just as baseball fans object to artificial turf and basketball fans object to raising the rims, die hard fans resist change. If the show had used original characters with different names and a different theme song, fans might cut it some slack.

But I can see where this is going. This is gradually turning into another "old shows=good, new shows=bad rally", which I refuse to take part in. Everything from the 60s/early 70s isn't automatically superior to what's on today, the same way that everything on now isn't automatically terrible. I try to judge a show by the quality of it's content, not by the era it came from.

[DrTooth]

Personally, I think that the main (if not only) reason the new GotJ gets so much hate is because it dares to be a remake.

Once again, even with horrible stuff like Loonatics, they at least try to stay as true to the characters as possible. I do not like the idea of an idiotic frantic teen George. Nor do I like how the humor is exactly like every other frantic excuse for comedy we've been getting lately (That Gym Monkey thing especially). A remake is okay, but even the films stayed true to the character of George (and Ape named Ape as well). He's supposed to be a meathead that talks in broken English. That's why it's a send up of Tarzan. If they're trying for sending up Disney's Tarzan, it still doesn't work. George seems too weak. The same guy that loved getting into fights with his Lion pal, Leon.

I can't say it ruined my childhood by any means, it's just a disappointment that our classic shows apparently can't stand up to the cheap, generic Cartoon network stuff of today.

[CelesteK]

Well, just because a show is on, that doesn't mean that you have to watch it. The new George and Tom & Jerry Tales will never top the originals, but my childhood memories haven't been ruined because of them. Personally, I think that the main (if not only) reason the new GotJ gets so much hate is because it dares to be a remake. Just as baseball fans object to artificial turf and basketball fans object to raising the rims, die hard fans resist change. If the show had used original characters with different names and a different theme song, fans might cut it some slack.

I don't recall saying that the old GotJ was better or superior to the one that's being made now. I said it was "what I remember watching as a child." Remembering something you watched as a child and saying that it's better or superior to new show are two entirely different things.

But I can see where this is going. This is gradually turning into another "old shows=good, new shows=bad rally", which I refuse to take part in. Everything from the 60s/early 70s isn't automatically superior to what's on today, the same way that everything on now isn't automatically terrible. I try to judge a show by the quality of it's content, not by the era it came from.

No that's not what I was saying at all. I was just saying that the old is my personal preference because it's what I grew up watching. I can't watch all of these horrid remakes of shows that were made when I was a kid. That's all I was saying.

[Blackstar]

^OK, that's fine. I wasn't trying to be argumentative just then (Sorry if that's how I came off). Merely making a point. The "Old School vs New Skool" debates come up frequently in the animation forums, and I get tired of repeating myself.

Of course, everyone has the right to like/dislike whatever show that floats/does not float their proverbial boat.

[DrTooth]

Personally, I don't mind a remake if they keep to the integrity of the series, the characters, and the entire ideal. Which is why Taz-Mania, Duck Dodgers, and even Sylvester and Tweety Mysteries work so well. They capture the spirit of the original characters and their machinations.

I don't think that we should give up with characters. Old cartoons stay relics that way. They should always continue evergreen characters like the Looney Tunes, Mickey Mouse's gang, and the rest of the classic cartoon characters. There is a way to keep them fresh, living and breathing franchises. There's a right way and a wrong way as well. And most of the times, the producers will go with "Wrong way."

[CelesteK]

Another cartoon of my past that they remade came about 4 years ago with the Go-Bots. It was perhaps the CRAPPIEST show I think was ever remade. Seriously folks! What the hell was that?
I figured that WPIX would air the old Gobots Hanna-Barbera cartoons but NOOOOO! They had to air a really crappy remake that I woke up at 6:00 in the morning to watch. :shrug:

[RonDrakenfan17]

I'd have to say Tom and Jerry Kids was the worst spin off ever. So yah have to say Tom and Jerry. Though for reason I did enjoy the very first animated movie they did. I'm surpised no one has thought up doing a live action Tom and Jerry movie, they've done other impossible things why not some thing that makes sense LOL. All they'd have to do is higher voice actors for the cat and the mouse.

[Steve Carras]

I voted Looney Tunes. I may be in the minroty, but for me (if you've read my posts before) none of the revivals worked. The very things (among other factors) people seem to like abouit "Tiny Toon Adventures","Bah Humduck","Loonatics",etc.,etc., turn me off as a Bob Clampett fan deluxe: picking off where the very worst of Dafffy (Plucky :p ) left off in, due Chuck Jones's dominance (and in my opinionb, harsh hatred against poor Bob Clampett. Bob appeared on Wonderama, a major kids show originating from New York from MetroMedia, and widely syndicated through their stations nationwide, in the 1970s and was a very personable guy...no other WB director appeared on the show..)

Then there is the freak treatment opf the design on "Loonatics" (though getting :ucy Liu, Florence Henderosn and Michael C.Duncan as guest voices might have been a good idea as they were used as additional voices), and again the (ironically for WB) one dimensional caricatures of the personalites of the characters.

In short, it would waste gigabytes to go to the trouble to detail everything about the revivals. Plus breaking the fourth wall too often. Someone on anohter VBulletin board animation forum correctly said it could ("LT: Back in Action") make you curse Tex Avery for that.:shrug:

Then there is the Tom and Jerry revivals..made PC since 1975 (apologies to a certain fan of that revival here!), and constantly likewise reconfigurated (if that';s quite the term I WANT), thru the recent made for DVD films..
(To be fair, by 1957 many things abou the stories and the shorts of the last original inhouse Metro-Goldwyn-[Mayer ones were failing--Leronard Maltin mentioned these in his 1980/1987 "Of Mice & Magic").

I suppose while I'm at it, Yogi was one of the most bastardized (not a swear word..John Kricfalusi used it in the Lion King issue of "ANIMATION" ,1994,in his extremely popular op-ed series of how to make bad cartoons!) of these. Again, words would fail..StillHoward_Fein described it best: "Oy,Yogi"...Yogi's Gang' (where the duming down started, though some wopuld put it actually in the bear's original incartnaiton or his then-sole flick in 1964, "Hey there, it's Yogi".)

And of course, who could forget DuckTales, at least Donald's Newphews, who many felt were santized for TV ("Quack pack" seemed to return them to being, uh, mischeivous.)

Of course, that brings us to "Alvin" franchise...cutened for the 80s-90s, hipped beyond the 1960s original in last Christmas season's movie with Jason Lee

Muppets (to the ..babies revival which started a whole trend).. Underdog (Jason Lee responsible), Magoo..

I also needn't go into the resoundtracking of Gumby due to music rights (Capital, Jack Shaindlin, Music for Television, Sam Fox, Phil Green,etc. so familiar thru the 1950s and 1960s shorts, though that's more the soundtrack issue, but I never really cared for the new Gumby stories either..)

Also the Flintstones. ONLY the 166 originals for me, and PREFERBALY the Gazoo (NO APRIL FOOL here) and the 1960-1962 ones,

[ROBOTRON]

:sweat: - TOUGH.

All had horrid spin-offs. I voted Looney Toons.:raven:

[DrTooth]

And of course, who could forget DuckTales, at least Donald's Newphews, who many felt were santized for TV ("Quack pack" seemed to return them to being, uh, mischeivous.)


Ducktales was NOT trying to be the old Disney's Donald Duck shorts. They were trying to be the Carl Bark's comci books. If you sit down and compare the two, the way they acted in Ducktales is pretty much exactly the same way Carl Barks treated them. Same thing with Donald. He was not the loudmouthed anger prone whirlwind of fury that was prevalant in old Donald cartoons. He was just the least mature of the 4 Nephews of Scrooge. And I feel this really makes the characters stand out in an action series, even one that's a light action cartoon.

[Libra]

I haven't seen Shaggy and Scooby, but What's New Scooby Doo? isn't good at all. It's boring, and why did they have to change the outfits? Daphne's looks ugly. And I don't like Grey DeLisle being her voice, nor do I like the voice for Velma, and listening to Scooby makes me want to cry because it's horrible. All of the movies after Alien Invaders weren't good. I did like A Pup Named Scooby Doo, though.

Loonatics I haven't seen, but I know I wouldn't like it, nor do I like Baby Looney Tunes. I didn't like the Back in Action movie, but I did like Space Jam, if only for the attention given to the cartoons' personalities. Didn't like the premise or the appearance of Lola (worst match for Bugs...hated the idea that all there was to her was her looks, and Bugs fell for that), and I fast fowarded all of the live action moments, but the characters' personalities really shone through in the movie. Also enjoyed Duck Dodgers and was disappointed when it ended.

As for Tom and Jerry, I loved the first movie created and hated all of the ones afterwards. I enjoyed Tom and Jerry Kids when I was younger, actually. Haven't seen the new series, so I can't give an opinion on it.

[Old Guy]

Space Jam was enjoyable, if a 90 minute sneaker commercial.

I like Space Jam. :confused:

And let's not forget the other Spinoff TV shows, Taz-Mania, Sylvester and Tweety Mysteries, Duck Dodgers, Tiny Toons. While they can't hold up to the classics (and frankly, what could?) they were still hillarious, enjoyable, and they captured the spirit of the old cartoons (albiet in odd forms).

Tiny Toons was great. Taz-Mania had its moments. Sylvester and Tweety Mysteries was crap. It aired at 11:30am for a reason. By 11:30am every kid was getting ready to walk out the door and hang with their friends at the park or whatever. As for Duck Dodgers...haven't seen enough of it to form an opinion.

[Zechs]

Loony Tunes they has so may bad spinnoff it's not even funny. Space Jam was ok it was just bland and a little slow. Sylvester and Tweety Mysteries was meh it was something to watch when bored Duck Dodgers is ok it has its moments.

[Baltofan]

Those Looney Tunes spinoff are blend.

[Blackstar]

Loony Tunes they has so may bad spinnoff it's not even funny. Space Jam was ok it was just bland and a little slow. Sylvester and Tweety Mysteries was meh it was something to watch when bored Duck Dodgers is ok it has its moments.

Space Jam wasn't a spinoff. It was a movie. And even though the story of SJ was just so-so, I felt that the writers did a really good job with Daffy's character. I liked Daffy better on SJ than I did on Duck Dodgers.

Those Looney Tunes spinoff are blend.

I think you meant to type "bland". Anyways, care to elaborate on that?

[Steve Carras]

Ducktales was NOT trying to be the old Disney's Donald Duck shorts. They were trying to be the Carl Bark's comci books. If you sit down and compare the two, the way they acted in Ducktales is pretty much exactly the same way Carl Barks treated them. Same thing with Donald. He was not the loudmouthed anger prone whirlwind of fury that was prevalant in old Donald cartoons. He was just the least mature of the 4 Nephews of Scrooge. And I feel this really makes the characters stand out in an action series, even one that's a light action cartoon.


You';re right...but againm, I READ those in the 1960s..and recall them funnier (then I qwas just a kid bakc in the 1960s,too! ;) )