A personal theory reguarding CN and anime acquisitions

[Sketch]

I'll stress that title again. This is a theory. Nothing more. So don't worry about it... much.

Over the past several years CN has treated us to a great many Japanese animated series dubbed for English speaking audiences. However more and more of them are not holding up. Bo-Bobo managed to finish some how and Naruto and One Piece are going strong along with Pokemon and supposedly YGO GX (strong enough to keep airing most of the time anyway). However since around 2004 CN has burried these series (some finished, some came close, others weren't so lucky). Yu Yu Hakusho, Zatch Bell, DICE, Rave Master, MAR, The Prince of Tennis, Rurouni Kenshin, Gundam SEED, .hack//ROOTS and IGPX (which they helped make). They gave up on some of these series with due cause but that's a lot of failures (add to that The Batman, Fantastic Four and Storm Hawks not panning out and action shows in general aren't looking too good).

MAR and PoT not working out will probably prevent CN for bringing another show from Jetstream to the main Toonami block unless the Jetstream stats are even better than MAR's (which is #3 currently behind Naruto and Pokemon).

Pokemon, Naruto and One Piece will without a doubt continue to air and do well in 2008. The jury is out on YGO GX... but I'd imagine they'll air more of that as well.

However, I am not expecting Cartoon Network to pick up the broadcasting rights to any more Japanese animated series in 2008. The only possibility that I think is substantially good is if ADV and CN can make SGT Frog happen (but I'm not counting on that because it's well... ADV).

There's a few reasons for this but the most notable one is that CN knows as well or better than any of us do that Japan doesn't have another Naruto, One Piece, Pokemon or DBZ airing right now nor planned for the immediate future. Simply put... they've got the big ones. In the past they've settled for lower tier series due to their quality or simply because WS suggested them but the track record is continuing to get worse.

This shouldn't sound shocking. Consider if you will that CN did not infact pick up a new anime series this year besides Pokemon Diamond and Pearl (which is really just another season of Pokemon). MAR and PoT actually started in late December but even with that it's only 2 more anime series and if you don't count them for 2006 then 2006 didn't look very good for anime aquisitions either. This year they also premiered some episodes of Mega Man Star Force as a movie but they didn't even run the entire thing.

Then of course there's the matter that Toonami has been cut back to 2 hours and there's no telling if that time will ever be returned.

There's also the matter that CN will be pouring more money into live action programing next year and probably be cutting back on acquisition buys in general.

Pokemon, Naruto and One Piece renewals will continue to get more costly as well.

And as I mentioned earlier... action cartoons in general are in the hot seat right now. Ben 10, Naruto and One Piece are still doing well enough but unless CN gets a few more action hits we'll be seeing even less action programing on CN in 2008. Here's hoping Transformers: Animated can help fix that in the mean time.

Once again, SGT Frog is the dark horse in this theory. It could come to CN because it's one of the remaining money makers that hasn't been sent to US television yet. And believe me, that counts. It's definently got a better chance than any ADV show before it.

Hopefully to keep things interesting CN will look towards other regions for action and comedy animation. I for one really hope they get Time Jam in 2008. I think that would be a wonderful addition to their slate.

And if CN ever feels like giving more anime a chance they do have a sufficient back log that they could air.

Lastly I'd like to say, even though I expect this I'm not really dissapointed about it. IMO CN has the best shows from Japanese more recent batches (or at least had them) and animation from other regions of the world would be nice to see instead of more shounen anime. But I thought I'd bring it up anyway. Perhaps to prepare others for the inevitable if they aren't already.

[Umandsf]

Interesting read. I, too, hope that CN will get Sgt. Frog, but I was planning to get the DVDs, anyway. Personally, I don't watch the anime on the channel, because I have this trait that if I can help it, I don't start watching shows in the middle. I'd rather find the first episode and watch from there. If done well, it may be a bit comparable to Spongebob and provide CN some good ratings.

Another anime they may try out would be Powerpuff Girls Z, since they also had a hand in that. However, that is a VERY risky endevour. Even though I love the series to death for helping me take my first steps into anime, I know plenty of people who like the show and can compare it to the original but also a good number of people who say otherwise. Bringing that show here is an unknown path. No one knows how people are going to react. Those who watched the original will probably blast it for being completely different, while those who are getting into it for the first time will probably be turned off by the poor quality of the first few episode (especially the absolute atrocity of the first episode). That's what most people need to think but are afraid to do so: the show is different. You can't compare every little thing to the original and use that as a standard of what it should be. The creators only took the most basic of ideas and decided to be creative with what they do with it. Some were hits, others were misses, but all were very creative.

Sgt. Frog will definitely help CN, because it is such a great show. PPGZ will be very risky to do but may pay off.

[Master Toon]

Wait, Bobobo ended?

[Sketch]

Well now I really hope I'm wrong about CN not getting another anime in 2008 because FINALLY they can air Hunter x Hunter. It's old yes... but they're still playing DBZ so I hope they'll take a chance on it.

[linkman0596]

Wait, Bobobo ended?

yea, they actually canceled it in japan so i dont think everyone in the US knew that it was over unless they saw the last episode, which was pretty much the only one that said anything about it being over.

now, onto Sgt. frog. I am a huge fan of this series, i even have a plushie of keroro that is fairly out of place in my room. I would love to see it on TV, especially on CN, however, there are of course some problems. though i and so many other anime fans would pick it up in a heartbeat, you have to remember that if mainstream audiences dont like it, then it'll just get swept under the rug like so many other series, and i'd rather not have it on TV at all if that's what's gonna happen to it. then of course with it being on CN there will be a higher number of edits. and even without those, the final problem is the ********s.

now, dont get me wrong, i have nothing wrong with naruto, it's a great show, though a little overrated, just the ********s themselves. now, i'm not gonna go on a rant about all the things wrong with ********s, this isn't the time or place for that, so instead, i'll just tell you why they present a problem with airing Sgt. frog. there are 3 senarios i see happening if Sgt. frog airs on toonami, the most likely place for it. please note that these are taken to the extreme.

1: the ********s will hate it, go to any site that talks about it, and spam the hell out of it complaining about it's taking up a timeslot that could be used for more naruto.

2: the ********s will love it, go to any site that talks about it, and spam the hell out of it not shutting up about it or naruto and gennerally being annoying untill us Sgt. frog fans get our own negative nickname.

3: the ********s will be impartial to it and nothing will happen

obviously, 3 would be the best option.

however, there is one series that i think definately belongs on toonami, buso renkin. all while i watched the series, it practically sreamed toonami at me. the anime was just picked up by viz not too long ago so if they decide to stop airing DBZ reruns (seriously, it's like, 700 episodes, i liked it the first time but once was enough) then buso renkin deserves that timeslot.

[Umandsf]

While we're on the subject of Sgt. Frog, here's the English trailer for those who haven't seen it yet. (Note: some people say that the voices are not final, but I like 'em, no matter what anyone says)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQgYS6as6KE

[Draft]

I know where CN's heading!

With Al Kahn to South Korea

2004 was the transistioning phase for CN. That's when they got rid of the Cartoon Cartoon moniker, cancelled Johnny Bravo and Samuraii Jack, premiring 3 New Original Series(Foster's, Puffy Ami Yumi, Megas XLR), Toonami moved to Saturdays, and more importantly, removed all classic cartoons. This is when CN became a shell of it's former self, and turned its sites on becoming the next Nickelodeon..

But i think in some cases, CN's decisioning was not to blame. Gundam SEED and .hack//ROOTS (and probably Rurouni Kenshin and IGPX) probably did not score well with CN's key demo, and thus were wiped off, and correect me if i'm wrong, they all got a full run. DICE and Rave Master probably did not get the ratings CN wanted (Kind of like how Nick was with Speed Racer and Super Duper Sumos), and got rid of them. MAR and Tennis still continue on the Jetstream, where the premired (At the moment). Yu Yu Hakusho and Zatch Bell probably did not have the ratings they had when the premried, and were kicked off.

SGT Frog isn't going to come unless it gets signifigant ratings in Japan and CN is willing to give up a 12th slot of Camp Lazlo to air it..

[Mugen]

But i think in some cases, CN's decisioning was not to blame. Gundam SEED and .hack//ROOTS (and probably Rurouni Kenshin and IGPX) probably did not score well with CN's key demo, and thus were wiped off, and correect me if i'm wrong, they all got a full run.

Gundam SEED did get a full run, albeit in the Friday night 1 AM slot. IGPX also completed its run when it moved to midnight on Fridays.

However, Kenshin aired 62 episodes before it was pulled. .hack//ROOTS didn't get a full run because Adult Swim took over Friday nights back in July.

[Umandsf]

SGT Frog isn't going to come unless it gets signifigant ratings in Japan and CN is willing to give up a 12th slot of Camp Lazlo to air it..
Well, the first part is already accomplished, seeing it's had 14 manga volumes, 191 episodes, 2 movies (one coming in March), and has already been announced for DVD release here. It's that second part that scares me.

[Dogasu]

But i think in some cases, CN's decisioning was not to blame. Gundam SEED and .hack//ROOTS (and probably Rurouni Kenshin and IGPX) probably did not score well with CN's key demo, and thus were wiped off, and correect me if i'm wrong, they all got a full run.

Cartoon Network aired 61 of the first 62 episodes of the series (Episode 14, "To Save A Small Life," was never aired). They supposedly bought the rights to all 95 episodes, but decided to cut it off after the end of the Kyoto arc.


As for as Keroro goes...I can see licensing issues being a problem. The show features photos of real-life model kits and whatnot mixed in with the animation, so the show may not be allowed to air on TV without some digital paint added here and there.

[Master Moron]

I still don't see why everyone thinks SGT. Frog would be successful if it aired on Cartoon Network. It just doesn't seem like something American kids would watch.

[Umandsf]

You never know. It may catch on, but probably not in Spongebob-like numbers.

[Lazerboy5000]

I think we're all just disapointed because we have lost at least one show that we cared about deeply (for me, it was IGPX as well as MAR).

And I think that most of us aren't willing to change or give new shows a chance because we are starting to get older, and we only want to watch the shows that we have be watching since kids (or since early teens).

I think that's what you were trying to get at, right Sketch?

[Sketch]

I didn't mention anything like that at all.

And it's not us that can't keep anime on the air it's their target demographic which most of us don't fall into.

[Lazerboy5000]

I didn't mention anything like that at all.

And it's not us that can't keep anime on the air it's their target demographic which most of us don't fall into.
Oh, sorry than. It was a little confusing and... *sigh*... I think I'm just holiday stressed and apperently I can't think straight. :p

[lueck]

One of the intersesting things is that Rurouni Kenshin because of how cn run the show actrully was not ended by the network their rights to the show runout before they could run the last 30 episodes.

[Dogasu]

You never know. It may catch on, but probably not in Spongebob-like numbers.

I would be surprised if it got Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo numbers, myself.

[Justy]

But i think in some cases, CN's decisioning was not to blame. Gundam SEED and .hack//ROOTS (and probably Rurouni Kenshin and IGPX) probably did not score well with CN's key demo, and thus were wiped off, and correect me if i'm wrong, they all got a full run. DICE and Rave Master probably did not get the ratings CN wanted (Kind of like how Nick was with Speed Racer and Super Duper Sumos), and got rid of them. MAR and Tennis still continue on the Jetstream, where the premired (At the moment). Yu Yu Hakusho and Zatch Bell probably did not have the ratings they had when the premried, and were kicked off.

SGT Frog isn't going to come unless it gets signifigant ratings in Japan and CN is willing to give up a 12th slot of Camp Lazlo to air it..
I believe I read that Rurouni Kenshin was taken off because it was popular with the wrong demographic age group (older teens and adults). SEED, IGPX, and .hack//ROOTS got full runs, but ROOTS premiered and ran at least a run and a half at 5:30 AM with NO promotioh. The only way I found it was that it premiered after Yu Yu Hakusho when CN ran its remainig episodes at 5:00 AM on Saturdays some time back. You're right about Zatch Bell, but I hope any remaining eps will run sometime.

I think both PoT and MAR did not initially air from their first episodes but eventually did before they were removed.

In short, I think CN's descisions were wrong, but not necessarily on what they acquired. Rather, they've made HORRIBLE programming descisions (time slots, episode choices, etc), are too impatient for truly good programs (original or acquisition) to find an audience, rely too much on demographic tendencies, and way overair programs that get their highest ratings. (Two new Naruto eps every week and reruns 4 other nights a week? C'mon...)

I expect that no new anime will appear on CN except on Adult Swim for a while due to anime's perceived failure to perform at any other time. CN was smart to somewhat quickly begin airing Death Note while it was pretty popular, though.

[Lord Mawdryn]

I believe I read that Rurouni Kenshin was taken off because it was popular with the wrong demographic age group (older teens and adults).

To me, that sums up Toonami's apparent fall from grace in the eyes of CN's current crop of execs. I think the 6-11 year old bracket is the demographic that they prize the most for their advertisers. Naruto grabs some of that, IMO, which is why it's basically become the anchor for the entire block...

[Sketch]

That's it in a nutshell.

It's also the reason why Naruto is on weeknights still while most action shows are not. But it's on late because it draws older audiences as well and because it can't get the 6-11 numbers their original cartoons can.

I wonder how well DBZ and One Piece are doing with 6-11. All I know for sure is One Piece is one of CN's top draws for 9-14 (as is Naruto, Courage and Goosebumps) at least as of Fall.

Goosebumps gets the 6-11 Toonami doesn't while also getting the 9-14 that Toonami did get in the 7-9PM slot. And that's why it's still there and will remain there until CN tries something new in that slot (Toonami related or not).

Saturday mornings seem to be working out for them currently but I wouldn't be surprised if they were to sort of recreate SVES on Saturday night by moving Dynamite Action Squad to prime time. Making both Friday and Saturday nights owned by Blake and co.

Ben 10: Hero Generation, Secret Saturday's, Santo (if this show is still in development), Pokemon Diamond and Pearl and Transformers: Animated would highlight the block and it would top off with Naruto and One Piece premieres slightly later than they are on currently 9:30-10:30PM. All one big happy family. Well... I can't say CN didn't bring such a situation on themselves they haven't made a older targeting action cartoon themselves in years and third parties aren't offering them something akin to JLU or Samurai Jack by any means.

[Antiyonder]

As long as it's at least successful with any age group, shouldn't it be deemed worthy for keeping. That would be like Toys R Us removing a top selling toy just because the majority of customers buying it are adults.

[Justy]

As long as it's at least successful with any age group, shouldn't it be deemed worthy for keeping. That would be like Toys R Us removing a top selling toy just because the majority of customers buying it are adults.
Unfortunately, that seems to be the current practice of the kids networks (Nick/Nicktoons, Disney and CN), given their tendency to perpetually run their most popular (or what they perceive as their most popular) shows in multiple time slots/marathons. If it attracts their desired demo, push it...if not, bury or drop it.

[Sketch]

As long as it's at least successful with any age group, shouldn't it be deemed worthy for keeping. That would be like Toys R Us removing a top selling toy just because the majority of customers buying it are adults.

That's not really similar actually. As any sale for a toy counts. Where as the general ratings of a show only helps so much while demographic ratings are king. The reason is advertising spots. If a show is doing well with 12-17 then CN can't get 6-11 targeting ad companies to buy the ad time and thus they lose money. On Jetstream, any view counts. Same goes for AS Video and CN Video reguardless of the few advertisements which are obviously targeted at a certain demographic. On CN and AS only certain viewers count towards their goal and if they aren't tuning in and thus not giving ad companies any reason to buy time on CN to promote their products.

In a perfect world any ratings would be benefitial to any show but that's just not how the television business works.

[Antiyonder]

That's not really similar actually. As any sale for a toy counts. Where as the general ratings of a show only helps so much while demographic ratings are king. The reason is advertising spots. If a show is doing well with 12-17 then CN can't get 6-11 targeting ad companies to buy the ad time and thus they lose money. On Jetstream, any view counts. Same goes for AS Video and CN Video reguardless of the few advertisements which are obviously targeted at a certain demographic. On CN and AS only certain viewers count towards their goal and if they aren't tuning in and thus not giving ad companies any reason to buy time on CN to promote their products.

The toy store comparison was a hypothetical example to point out the absurdity of their decision.

In a perfect world any ratings would be benefitial to any show but that's just not how the television business works.

Couldn't the cartoons in question then be used to go in between the CN and AS line up? Since they would be kid friendly, but adult approved?

[Light Lucario]

Couldn't the cartoons in question then be used to go in between the CN and AS line up? Since they would be kid friendly, but adult approved?

Just because a show appeals to adults, even though it is aimed at children, it doesn't mean that those shows should be on an adult block like Adult Swim. The reason why some blocks are labeled for adults is because of how the networks don't want to put programs that wouldn't be appropriate for children to watch. If a block like Adult Swim put on shows that are kid friendly, then it wouldn't be an adult block anymore. I'm not trying to defend Adult Swim or anything like that since I rarely watch the block myself, but I just can't see a lineup like that showing any kid friendly shows. Even the anime programs mentioned wouldn't really fit with Adult Swim since they can easily fit on Toonami, if it had two hours back on its block.