The Space Age: + 50 years...

[tucsoncoyote]

Related links:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21115669/

It's hard to believe that it's been 50 years since the Space Age began. And it all started with a 4 pound, basketball sized chunk of metal that orbited the earth every 90 minutes for just 4 months.

http://www.aerospaceguide.net/satellite/sputnik_picture.jpg

Yes Folks, It's been 50 years to the day that the world started into the space age, and it all started on October 4th, 1957, with the launch of Russia's Sputnik 1. This 4 pound, basketball sized object showed the world that humans took the next step in going to the stars..

and yet where have we gone in just 50 years? Where are we going in the next 50 years. What are our goals and objectives here? After all some folks say going back to the moon is the first step, or that going to Mars would be the next logical choice.

But if the first 50 years have shown us anything, it shows that with space comes risks, and dangers, yet with that same risk taking enthusiasm it reaps rewards..After all without space age technology, the internet, computers, and even digital TV wouldn't exist.. In short the space age has given us a new look on life.

but what should the goals be for the next 50 years? Where should we go? What should we do? After all even though it's been 50 years, should we as a species, think about traveling to the stars? Or should we abandon space altogether, and leave it alone?

let the discussion begin..

:coyote:

[Meson]

Happy Sputnik Day!


The next 50 years have already been started. We already have documented plans for returning to Luna and staying, landing on Mars, probing Europa, and various private ventures. What we need to do is fullfil these plans as well as the future plans these precipitate.

[Zeonic Freak]

They say the Sputnik was some satellite, when i think Russia just said that when it was really just a hunk of tin to orbit earth and they say "lookz at uz, wez is beztezt in da world to putz our thrash in spacez!!!" :D:p

I got no beef with Russia, they make some awsome liquor, modern weapons (AK anyone), and nice looking girls. Even though today their federation is run by the Russian mob, in time it will get better.

Well as for the space exploration, its at a halt since the crash a few years ago, and NASA is in some finance problems of its own. Its not the end of the space exploration, but just at a stalemate.

As a Gundam fan, i hope to live in space someday, to reduce the population on earth, and its in space, whats wrong with that?

Now to use engines that run on nuclear power or some other form of energy to use shuttles as transportation, or the Futurama theory of "Dark Matter", its only a matter of time before we get there...

[sun]

Two very good films about the results of Sputnik that anyone here might enjoy.
October Sky-- is about a real person who reacted to Sputnik and became interested in the space travel and rockets. It is truly a great movie. Lots of fun about teenagers and their goals. If you haven't seen it, please do.

The Iron Giant, is an animated film about what happens at the time of Sputnik.. Both are available at the libraries or on video or disk..sun

[Dr.Pepper]

50 years? Dang that was a long time ago.

[Keeper]

Growing up in the 1970s, we were all told that we absolutely positively would have jobs in outer space, and might even live on Mars.

We also were not taught Imperial measurement systems, since the U.S. was going to go metric any day now...
(I still don't know how many cups are in a pint, or whatever.)

In 1989, the A&E cable channel aired all of the ABC News coverage of Apollo 11 (leading up to launch, the launch, during the mission, on the Moon, during the return, splashdown, and post-mission coverage), "as it happened" in real time precisely 20 years before. I got myself out of bed to watch (and videotape) each and every bit, no matter what time of day or night, because I wanted to live it the way it really happened, before my own birth.

It seemed like 1969 was a lifetime ago, since it was before my time. Ancient history.

Now, it's almost been that much time SINCE the days I watched and recorded all that. But, but, but... that wasn't a lifetime ago! It's not ancient history! It was practically yesterday!!

Sigh. I'm old.

Comparing the 1969 TV news coverage with what we had in 1989, they seem so different. But today's news coverage doesn't seem that different from 1989's... maybe it does, but I just don't notice because I vividly remember the 1980s.

[Harvey Two Face]

It's only been 50 years and the furthest a human has gone is the moon, and plus our planets resources are depleting so we better get moving if we ever want to get off this rock.

[tucsoncoyote]

It's only been 50 years and the furthest a human has gone is the moon, and plus our planets resources are depleting so we better get moving if we ever want to get off this rock.

And that's just the point here. it's been 50 years and what have we REALLY done in that half century.. Let's see.

We put men into space (Russia put the first Woman in Space Long before the female Astronauts like Sally Ride Came along).

We went to the moon, and not just once but 6 times just to prove that we could do it..(and in one case ingenuity got 3 astronauts home without them dying along the way back).

We built an Orbital Space Station..and a Space Shuttle that works about 20% of the time, provided we don't have one explode or burn up,

and we've even had Private Enterprise go into suborbital space. While both Russia and America's Space programs are being turned into dust.

But you are so right, We had a lot of plans to do things and we've not done one iota.. here's some of those plans supposedly to do:

Go back to the moon (We're still waiting on that one supposedly we were supposed to be there in just 5 years from now.

Mars by 2020..(Gee that's 13 years and we're still waiting for at least one good rocket design..

Exploration of the Asteroid belt for Mining..(Still waiting on that one too)..

Let's face it people don't care whether we go into space or not. They're more stuck up about the fact that they're worried about Global Warming, or the Ozone Depleting or the next War on Terrorism.. The folks 35 and even 40 years ago had a dream.. and now? We're just sitting on our keesters and looking up at the night sky while we send robots and drones to do the work we should be doing..

It's a real sad commentary that in 50 years we're supposed to be traveling outbound from the planet. To places like Europa and the Jovian moons. and yet we've really barely toddled off this world..

Sad Commentary indeed.

:coyote:

[sun]

One of the unintended results of the Space Race, and the landing on the moon was the excellerated development of one of the most common useful tools.

Before I name it, you should know that the Russians and the Americans raced to the moon. After Sputnik, the U.S was determined to get to the moon ahead of the old Soviet Union. Billions were allocated for this race and all of tools that would be needed to win. Perhaps the most innovative and far reaching was the downsizing of ...are you ready???computers.

Because of weight limitations, it became a goal to downsize necessary components in computers so that they could fit in the space vehicles that would go to the moon. Weight in space travel was of extreme importance since it took huge rockets to fire the small space capsules into space. The U.S. government spent huge amounts to get the early computers small enough to at least put something computerized in the so called moon capsules.

Most readers will not know, that it was this research and development which led to the invention of the personal computer. Of some importance, since you are using one right now as you read these words. So, what you are reading at this second, is a long range result of the ...space program...

..Further, the U.S. became a leader in the development of ..computers, which we still maintain.

So, for those who think that the exploration of outer space is useless and will offer no advacement for mankind....

TURN OFF YOUR COMPUTER AND GO BACK TO WATCHING A TV SHOW................................................................SUN............

[Zeonic Freak]

One of the unintended results of the Space Race, and the landing on the moon was the excellerated development of one of the most common useful tools.

Before I name it, you should know that the Russians and the Americans raced to the moon. After Sputnik, the U.S was determined to get to the moon ahead of the old Soviet Union. Billions were allocated for this race and all of tools that would be needed to win. Perhaps the most innovative and far reaching was the downsizing of ...are you ready???computers.

Because of weight limitations, it became a goal to downsize necessary components in computers so that they could fit in the space vehicles that would go to the moon. Weight in space travel was of extreme importance since it took huge rockets to fire the small space capsules into space. The U.S. government spent huge amounts to get the early computers small enough to at least put something computerized in the so called moon capsules.

Most readers will not know, that it was this research and development which led to the invention of the personal computer. Of some importance, since you are using one right now as you read these words. So, what you are reading at this second, is a long range result of the ...space program...

..Further, the U.S. became a leader in the development of ..computers, which we still maintain.

So, for those who think that the exploration of outer space is useless and will offer no advacement for mankind....

TURN OFF YOUR COMPUTER AND GO BACK TO WATCHING A TV SHOW................................................................SUN............


So, basicly to go to the moon now, all we need is some tin and a laptop since we have come so far?

Me and a coworker were discussion how the whole moon landing is a goverment conspiracy or the first moon landing at least (This was 8 something at night and we had like 2 hours to kill and valeted 4 vehicles, and the topic arose to discussion). Hey, was it a staged thing, or was it possible. And how come we havent made any strides since then to make it to the moon to colonize somehow? (well the answer to that one is simple, because US of A keeps spending money and resources on war)

So i feel for tuscon comment how no one really cares in todays age. But, i think when the right funding comes along, those dreams will be fulfilled.

Something to ponder about...

[tucsoncoyote]

So, basicly to go to the moon now, all we need is some tin and a laptop since we have come so far?

Me and a coworker were discussion how the whole moon landing is a goverment conspiracy or the first moon landing at least (This was 8 something at night and we had like 2 hours to kill and valeted 4 vehicles, and the topic arose to discussion). Hey, was it a staged thing, or was it possible. And how come we havent made any strides since then to make it to the moon to colonize somehow? (well the answer to that one is simple, because US of A keeps spending money and resources on war)

So i feel for tuscon comment how no one really cares in todays age. But, i think when the right funding comes along, those dreams will be fulfilled.

Something to ponder about...

Indeed, and you have to also wonder about other things.. For example, Since this is still all space related, The Likes of Assimov, Kubreck, and even Roddenberry would have never considered science fiction if it weren't for the strides in space.. I mean the moment supposedly we landed on the moon, Star Trek was a thing of the past. (But yet it hung around for 40 of those 50 years, entertaining us with flights of fancy, and dreams of not only interplanetary travel, but also interstellar travel. Warp Drive? It's possible maybe in 2-3 centuries and with the right people.

But Like Zeonic Freak stated.. why on earth did we go to the moon? Just to pick up a few rocks? Or was the space race really manufactured to keep our minds off a conflict half a world away?

I grew up in the space age, I was born when man was barely off this pittance of a planet, and in fact I looked up to the Mercury 7 and the rest of the astronauts out there.. It's kind of also a sad commentary that folks like Wally Schirra Jr. Get no mention of a post when they died after a good long run in the space program and lived a full life, whilst others like Jerry Falwell and other people we have come to love or hate are in the forefront of the news and are talked about almost everyday.

But I digress here. The Space Age (The Real Space age that is), isn't science fiction, it's science fact. Sun is very correct in his observations too. I mean when you think about it, The original Lunar Excursion Module that put man on the moon had a computer that is powerful as one of today's toys known as a Furby..and that was back in 1969.. and now we have that tech times 1000, with that much computing power, don't you think it would be wise to put a little computer work into play here and go to places like the Moon or say Mars or the Moons of Jupiter?

Like I said, It's a sad Commentary when folks can't even think outside the box, in order to go to the stars.. The problem is.. they're still stuck in the box..

Now if you will excuse me, I'm in the middle of designing a real working space plane that will replace the space shuttle.. After all when the shuttle ends it's service in 3 years, I'll be sure to have something worked up for the Boys at NASA. After all, Space Travel is part imagination and creativity as well as part science. And when you put science and Creativity together, you can go anywhere you darn well please.

Even to the stars.... Oh and Zeonic Freak, we do have the tech.. the only question that remains is.. Why haven't we used it already?

:coyote:

[Zeonic Freak]

Even to the stars.... Oh and Zeonic Freak, we do have the tech.. the only question that remains is.. Why haven't we used it already?

:coyote:

Oh yea, i was bumming around Wiki last night, and apperently, theres a "proposed" mission 15 years down the road, the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orion_17

Maybe by then, something can happen. I would talk more, but i gotta shower and head to work again...

[tucsoncoyote]

Oh yea, i was bumming around Wiki last night, and apperently, theres a "proposed" mission 15 years down the road, thehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orion_17

Maybe by then, something can happen. I would talk more, but i gotta shower and head to work again...

Well I did a bit of Deep digging also on wikipedia, on the projects that are shown and in fact here's what we know about the project in general

The Ares I launch vehicle (also known as the CLV), is set to be ready for flight when the Space Shuttle in 2010 or shortly thereafter (so when I say shortly thereafter I am refering to a timeline between 2010 and 2019...

The more powerful Cargo Carrier the Ares V is also pretty much on the drawing boards and will be able to lift a total of 287,000 pounds up to an altitude of 1,200 miles (what is classified as "Low Earth Orbit" or will be able to lift a total of 143,300 pounds to the moon.

The Upside of this is that Manned launches will be aboard the smaller Ares I (Orion 606 class) vehicle and in fact this small rocket will be able to carry a crew of 3 I believe. (Could be more)

But the thing is that rather than trying to use big steps in the Project Constellation run, we have "Baby steps" which means first you put the cargo into space then you put the crew in space.. and in fact the project is planned to be in full effect by 2019.. That's 12 years down the road.. But if Americans (and the rest of the World) were to pitch in on this project and really push the time line, I think something like this could be done in half the time NASA's Proposing.. Only 6 years from now. provided that folks want to do that..

But the Real issue I see is the Consensus of Humanity saying "Why go to the Moon? Why Go to Mars? Why Go anywhere in the Solar System for that Matter?" I think it's this complacency of Humanity to deal with the possibility of dwindling supplies on earth and over population that is driving the space program absolutely nowhere.. That's the problem.

I also ran that one comment you said about why the space race was put out there, and the answer really is 2 fold as to why the events of going to the moon and into space are the issue.

1. The Russians were a threat - This is perhaps the biggest reason why the United States came back and won the Race to the moon (if it did happen). In short, If the Russians can put a 4 pound basketball sized object into space, what was there to stop them from putting up a few hundred nukes into orbit ready to rain down on American soil at a moment's notice? Hardly anything. That's one major reason why NASA was formed.. To see if we could do the same thing, without the political overtones.

But the second reason is even more intriguing and ties back into what you said about War..

(2) The Space Race was designed to take our minds off the War in Vietnam - This is probably the more rational solution as to why NASA was created and why it did what it did. It kept people focused on a target and a time line to meet, and once it was met, most of the war in Vietnam was over.(Save for the final 6 years which was covered by projects like Skylab and the Apollo-Soyuz Test project. I think this is the more realistic ideal as to why this happened.

As for the cost for going back to the moon? Well considering that the entire Space program from the first manned launch into space until the end of the Apollo-Soyuz Test project cost the tax payers a total of about 24 billion dollars (in 1970 cash), this would equivicate to about 40-50 billion dollars in todays fundage.. Well outside the range of most folks.

But with the technology that is shown here, this is perhaps maybe 1/10th the cost to go the same distance and the same time line. So then My only question would be.. Why haven't they done it already? And the answer for this comes back to that Complacency.. While some of us want to go back to the moon, and beyond, a lot of folks look at folks like myself and say, "You're nuts". They don't want to be part of the next generation of Exploration (and Exploitation) of the space age.. In short, they're happy at home watching their hi-def TV's and playing on their computers while ignoring the facts that there could be even greater strides in a lot of areas if we did go back. So there in lies the rub.. Folks don't want us to return to space, yet they want the perks..(or as a certain evil genius once said, In for a penny, in for a pound.)

But the bottom line of why this is such a short sighted project is that the time line is realistic enough, but the real question remains. Do people really want to go back to space? Or do they want to have the same "Hide under a rock theory" that makes humanity what it is today?

I don't ask this to those science buffs, but to the regular joe here, Why on earth do you turn your back on this idea, and expect to go anywhere? After all You can't go somewhere without risk..and believe me the Space Program has shown it..(17 dead on the American side of the equation vs the 200+ on the Russian side..) 217+ deaths and 50 years of hard work, for .. nothing..

That's the sad commentary.. Folks don't want us to return to space.. Frankly I would love to see Humanity evolve and go beyond earth.. to the Moon, Mars, and even beyond that.. after all Space travel isn't science fiction it's science fact. and it's only complacency that will get us that science fact, and will turn it yet again into science fiction..

That's my 2 bucks worth on the space program.. We've spent 50 years of time and gotten absolutely nowhere. but it would be nice to return to space don't you think?

:coyote:

[Keeper]

Well, there is the overall thought process today of "Why spend money on space when there are problems here at home?"

But that sort of thinking could have existed at any time in history. Would Europeans have found the Americas with that thought process? Of course, the common citizen didn't have much say in the matter back then.

However, there is a point which you're all forgetting. One reason we aren't so focused on putting people on the Moon or Mars is that we don't have to. It's much more cost-effective and productive to put small robots into space. This wasn't possible until very recently, so it hasn't quite entered into our public consciousness. Nevertheless, the notion is gaining momentum, and it's very sound. You don't have to feed robots; you can send a whole bunch and scatter them all over the place; they can stay for quite a while before returning; they can gather all the data a person could and then some.

With the data gathered by robots, it would become easier to figure out how to colonize, but... why would you want to live on Mars? Not much to do and rather dangerous! Yes, we can mine the planet, perhaps, but robots can do that just fine, if they first find something worth mining.

Still, it would be cool to bear witness to a human Mars landing. It would have to be a wholly autonomous mission, given the time lag of several minutes for any communication. That's something we've never really done with human spaceflight.

[tucsoncoyote]

Well, there is the overall thought process today of "Why spend money on space when there are problems here at home?"

But that sort of thinking could have existed at any time in history. Would Europeans have found the Americas with that thought process? Of course, the common citizen didn't have much say in the matter back then.

However, there is a point which you're all forgetting. One reason we aren't so focused on putting people on the Moon or Mars is that we don't have to. It's much more cost-effective and productive to put small robots into space. This wasn't possible until very recently, so it hasn't quite entered into our public consciousness. Nevertheless, the notion is gaining momentum, and it's very sound. You don't have to feed robots; you can send a whole bunch and scatter them all over the place; they can stay for quite a while before returning; they can gather all the data a person could and then some.

With the data gathered by robots, it would become easier to figure out how to colonize, but... why would you want to live on Mars? Not much to do and rather dangerous! Yes, we can mine the planet, perhaps, but robots can do that just fine, if they first find something worth mining.

Still, it would be cool to bear witness to a human Mars landing. It would have to be a wholly autonomous mission, given the time lag of several minutes for any communication. That's something we've never really done with human spaceflight.

But then some folks tend to forget the medical advances and scientific advances because of space travel. For example the computer is but one facet of this equation. But there are others. For Example, Creating purer medicines and silicon chips in zero G is one thing, examining the process of biology (including human biology) in space. (Recently, I just talked with a friend of mine who just recently who revealed to me that women would have a harder time procreating in space in the micro gravity or even the Zero G weightlessness environs due to the fact of lack of Gravity. So if Humans are going to live and work in space they have to get around some of the problems (For example over long periods of time, humans in Zero G lose bone mass and minerals vital to keep a body healthy, but already folks are working on problems using exercise treadmills and what not to keep the body healthy in low/no gravity.

But can just robots go into space, and grow silicon crystals of such purity? Can they make materials more pure in zero G? Can they also do these biological researches and what not? Of course not, they're robots, not humans).

And then also thanks to humanistic Zero G research, some folks are working on some rather unique items that will help folks not only up in space but back here on earth too.

Case in point? Bullet proof vests for the Police and Military. The folks at the space agencies now are learning that certain organic materials and compounds (such as natural spider silk produced in Zero G or microgravity), can when woven into other polymers including Kevlar, can in fact make the material a lot stronger..(Tell a cop you can produce a bullet proof vest that will stop a high powereed bullet without hurting the police officer? I think he / she would sign on to that project, because it's a new idea that will help protect him or her once the product is produced.

Want a faster computer? Have folks grow those silicon chips in Zero G with fewer impurities and thus you get a better chip (I bet gamers here at home want something like a PS9. with research like that, it's doable.


What about the cure for Cancer? That elusive holy grail might be found in the reaches of low micro gravity and even zero G.

The point is this and it was best said in the movie, The Right Stuff, No Bucks mean no Buck Rogers. . Humans do have to go to space eventually to do these projects, and the benefits and rewards of doing so could be immeasurable and the price tag for each success is incalculable.

Oh sure we can send robots to the more dangerous places, Like comets (Ever heard of 'Deep Impact', And I'm not refering to the movie either.. This project was done to see if humanity could protect itself from comets or other threating bodies hurtling around in space towards the planet, just by a simple test of colliding a probe with a comet. That one was successful, and gave a new insight into the comets themselves.)

But then I have to say this.. without human risk, there is no human gain in any field; again the 'No bucks = No Buck Rogers' Equation. If folks want to send robots that's fine with me, but when the real task is brought to the forefront, it'll be humans and not robotic units that will have to carry out the task of finding ways to live and explore space.. After all, Like I said, No pain no gain..

:coyote: