Pup Named and What's New Scooby Doo canon to each other?

[zoombie]

My second and last Scooby Doo topic of the day, no surprise why, because CN Scooby's marathon, I have Scooby on the brain. This one is more possitve than the Scrappy Doo discuession.

We know the series What's New Scooby Doo and direct to DVD moives of recent years take place in the 2000s because of the technology, and thus not canon with the original Scooby Doo series Scooby Doo Where Are You!

In the late 80's early 90's there was prequal series called A Pup Named Scooby Doo, that series took place in the 80's because had 80's technology, and also not canon with the classic Scooby Doo, for it to be, it had to take place in the 50's or 60's.

Looking at the technology they had, and the ages of the characters, you suppose it is possible to rationalise that A Pup Named Scooby Doo and What's New Scooby Doo and its related movies, to be canon with each other.

In APNSD the kids were pre teens, ranging from ages 8 to 12 and they had 80's technology. The modern day Scooby gang uses today technology, and they could be 15 years older than the APNSD gang. In the early 2000's, the APNSD gang would be in their 20's, and the Scooby are suppose to be teenagers, but I always thought they looked older, like they were in their 20's, for heaven sakes Shaggy has facial hair.

Plus there was one episode of WHSD in which there was a flashback to the gang when they were kids, and they looked like the APNSD versions, an intenial joke or reference by the writers, but could more than meet the eye.

You have to ignore the style of APNSD, they broke the 4th wall a number of times, the unrelastic sight gags of classic Looney Tunes, etc.

[Tobias]

I think all the Scooby Series are canon with each other if you put them in the right order:

- A Pup Named Scooby Doo - The Childhood/Pre-Teen Years. It's obviously told with some exageration since it's told from Scooby or Shaggy's POV. Like when Velma has her flashback in What's New, it's told her from POV with the less wacky facial expressions.

- Scooby Doo, Where are you?/The Scooby Doo Movies/The Scooby Doo & Dynamutt Show/ Scooby Doo and Scrappy Doo - The Gang is altogether with Scrappy eventually coming in to help out.

- Scooby Doo on Zombie Island (the first act)/Scooby Doo & Scrappy Doo Season 2/Scooby Doo Meets the Boo Brothers-Reluctant Werewolf-The Ghoul School/The New Scooby Doo & Scrappy Doo/The Scooby Doo Mysteries/13 Ghosts of Scooby Doo - The gang goes there seperate ways, leaving just Shaggy, Scooby, and Scrappy. Daphne eventually joins up with the gang again as an investigative reporter (Scooby Doo Mysteries, which leads to her job in Zombie Island). Fred and Velma show up occasionally to help. After 13 Ghosts ends, Daphne once again leaves and goes to become a t.v. personality. Flim Flam and Scrappy leave the group to become full time monster hunters under Vincent Van Ghoul's tutelage.

- The Scooby DTV movies/What's New Scooby Doo? - The gang reunites once again to solve mysteries across the globe.

- Shaggy & Scooby Doo Get a Clue - Shaggy's Uncle disppears, leaving him a fortune while dealing with the evil Dr. Phibes. Fred, Daphne, and Velma continue to solve crimes solo.

[zoombie]

I do like to think every thing that involves Scooby Doo from 1969 to 1986 is somehow canon to each other, despite the non aging of the characters, the technology was still the same.

But the modern day Scooby Doo with the internet and other techonology of today that the mystery solving gang uses, it is impossible to think they are canon to those from the classic Scooby cartoons.

[snowpeck]

I cannot consider Pup Named Scooby Doo canon with anything... nor the recent series. The timeline and technology are just too far off. And as far as the facial hair argument for the current characters to be in their 20s, it's really an invalid argument. I had a full goatee at age 16.


Greg

[Dub]

Actually, there is evidence that the Pup Gang is canon to the Scooby series given that theres at least one What's New episode with a "blink and you'll miss it" flashback to the gang of that era. While they don't have speaking roles, the younger gang shown looks exactly like the Scott Jeralds design of the Pup series. Velma even had those huge glasses and diddly legs.

I remember it specifically because it was such an odd nonsensical segue given how they normally look now. I rather liked the acknowledgement myself. :)

[zoombie]

Actually, there is evidence that the Pup Gang is canon to the Scooby series given that theres at least one What's New episode with a "blink and you'll miss it" flashback to the gang of that era. While they don't have speaking roles, the younger gang shown looks exactly like the Scott Jeralds design of the Pup series. Velma even had those huge glasses and diddly legs.

I remember it specifically because it was such an odd nonsensical segue given how they normally look now. I rather liked the acknowledgement myself. :)

Not to mention in the What's New series Fred is a little more dumb than in the classic series, and in one episode Daphne is upset that they didn't get a better known actress to play her in a reenactment, showing a little bit of the snobby side her younger self from the Pup Named Scooby Doo.

Anyway a got an idea for a modern day Scooby Doo movie is sort of a crossover with A Pup Named Scooby Doo, is a friend of the gang (maybe the same people that sent the gang into cyber space) invents a time machine, and the Scooby gang go back in time, and meet their younger selfs. And when they return back to the present time, their younger selfs sneaks on the time machine and follows them back to the present time. Than the time machine breaks.

Of course in the past, they would eleminate the 4th wall jokes and the Looney Toon style gags.

In the present time, the Scooby gang and their younger selfs solve a mystery. There are a lot of fun stuff you could explore.

The younger version of our gang, seeing the new technology of today, and they have a field day of fun with that.
Shaggy exajurating to his younger self of how brave he is.
Young Daphne having a crush on Fred, and maybe even vice versa young Freddie have a crush on Daphne
And last but not least, the Scooby gang making a comment of how annoying they thought it would be to have a puppy help them solve mysteries, a reference to Scrappy Doo. Why the hell not? LOL

[Wussycat]

If they are canon to each other, then how come Daphne isn't rich and Fred isn't paranoid?

[zoombie]

Daphne always came from a rich family. Her dad paid for the Mystery Van, according to one of the travia questions on the Scooby Doo Where Are You season 1 and 2 DVD.

As far as Fred being parinoid, there is a thing called character growth, people can change.

By the way, people critize making Fred a little more dumb in the direct to DVD movies and What's New Scooby Doo. First of all, he is not a moron, he is just more flaued than he used to be, and I thought it humanised his character more, instead of always being right.

[Tobias]

If they are canon to each other, then how come Daphne isn't rich and Fred isn't paranoid?

Daphne's the anti-Paris Hilton. She works- HONESTLY- for what she wants.

[Martianinvader]

Pup Named Scooby Doo actually was set in the 50's, not the 80's. So they were trying to make it canon.

[Jave]

Pup Named Scooby Doo actually was set in the 50's, not the 80's. So they were trying to make it canon.Eh, I doubt that. And if THAT was the intention, it was executed horribly. There were way too many modern things in it (like Arcades) to actually make viewers believe they were indeed in the 50s.

[zoombie]

Eh, I doubt that. And if THAT was the intention, it was executed horribly. There were way too many modern things in it (like Arcades) to actually make viewers believe they were indeed in the 50s.

Yeah and there was one episode when "Computer Walks Among Us" in which Velma won a computer. In the 50's only select areas of the goverment had computers, and there was no small pocket size televisions, every television looked the same back than.

But the characters did talks like they were from the 50's and 60's, and the cars looked like 50s cars. (good comparision is the two Brady Bunch feature leangth moive, in which the main characters acted like they were in the 60's, but the world was the 90's)

[Brainatra]

Daphne's family was shown as being wealthy even before "Pup" was produced... guessing "Pup" decided to play up/exaggerate upon this fact (the butler following her around, etc.).

No problem with me counting "Pup" as canonical (though they seemed to be in junior high more than grade school to me---see "The Computer Walks Among Us"). My main oddity of note: Shaggy's sister apparently aging from around age 2 in "Pup" to (at least) 18 (per the 80's "Ghost of McBaggy Rogers" episode where she gets married), while Shaggy himself went from around age 11 or 12 to c.18-20 (presumably not 21, or they'd all be "meddling *adults*"). Lacking a better explanation, I'm willing to chalk this discrepancy up to "Peanuts time" (a la Sally aging from infancy to a few years younger than Charlie Brown while Chuck stayed the same age/barely aged...). :-)

[zoombie]

Daphne's family was shown as being wealthy even before "Pup" was produced... guessing "Pup" decided to play up/exaggerate upon this fact (the butler following her around, etc.).

No problem with me counting "Pup" as canonical (though they seemed to be in junior high more than grade school to me---see "The Computer Walks Among Us"). My main oddity of note: Shaggy's sister apparently aging from around age 2 in "Pup" to (at least) 18 (per the 80's "Ghost of McBaggy Rogers" episode where she gets married), while Shaggy himself went from around age 11 or 12 to c.18-20 (presumably not 21, or they'd all be "meddling *adults*"). Lacking a better explanation, I'm willing to chalk this discrepancy up to "Peanuts time" (a la Sally aging from infancy to a few years younger than Charlie Brown while Chuck stayed the same age/barely aged...). :-)

Well you should take in consideration the ages of the villains. If you are somone in your 40's or 50's or even older, than it is perfectly reasonable to refer to someone in their 20's as a kid.

Speaking of Daphne's wealth, she probably has something to do with this, but I recall a Scooby adventure (not sure if is the classic Scooby or the modern day Scooby) in which the Mystery Inc. gang is at a fanasy party, in which Shaggy and Scooby are pigging out. I assume the host of the party was Daphne's parents or some other relative.

It would have been nice if in one of the movies or episodes of What' New, to bring back that butler she always had with her on Pup Named.

Another way they could have incorporated Daphne's background, is in one of the movies or episodes of What's New to have snobby relative(s) or sociality friends that look down on the rest of the Scooby gang, especially Shaggy and Scooby, have someone with the attitude of "How embarassing, hanging out with these poor people." I am not sure if I would have the snob turn out to be the villain.

I liked that they made more of a big deal of Daphne's wealthy background, because it gave something to identify her character with. Besides being labeled by older male fans as the hot girl (no arguements here LOL), on the old show Fred was labeled the leader and the bossy one, Velma was the smart one who always lost her glasses, and Daphne was just the one that always got captured. Most Scooby villains motives is to get rich, they didn't know they had an heiress, and could have made a lot of money for ransom.

[Wussycat]

I think it would have been interesting if they brought Red Herring back. Would the older Fred still accuse him with nothing to back it up?

[Dr.Pepper]

I don't think that any of the spin off seires should be considered canon. For example in Scooby Goes Hollywood there was a flashback scene of the gang looking the same way they do now getting Scooby as a puppy. While inside A Pup Named Scooby Doo, they apparentally had Scooby since they were kids.

[Martianinvader]

Eh, I doubt that. And if THAT was the intention, it was executed horribly. There were way too many modern things in it (like Arcades) to actually make viewers believe they were indeed in the 50s.
Well, that's what was originally intended. From my Ruegger interview:
I wanted to go Tex Avery with it, really have the characters freak out, and Jennie wanted to add more kid appeal, so we put those two concepts together in a younger version of the franchise. We made the show a period piece set in 1962-63 (this made sense to us since the original series, when Shaggy and gang were teenagers, began in 1969). We came up with the town of Coolsville, with family histories for the members of the gang....a quiet personality for Velma, a vain rich personality for Daphne, and a very thick personality for Freddie. We added Red Herring and lots of over the top wild takes and kept the series simple. We also made fun of many of the Scooby conventions....it seemed to work.

[Tobias]

Think it makes your head hurt trying to link Pup as canon with the other series?

Try explaining The Flinstone Kids in relation to the original series and spin offs.

[zoombie]

Think it makes your head hurt trying to link Pup as canon with the other series?

Try explaining The Flinstone Kids in relation to the original series and spin offs.

That is something I don't even want to try to touch. But any knowledgeable Flintstones fans know it is a fact Fred and Barney meet Wilma and Betty as teenagers. It is a fact simple as that.

[Daffyfan2003]

That is food for thought, since other sources say that the gang has known each other and solved mysteries when they were kids, unlike other shows. In all reality "Muppet Babies" and "Flintstone Kids" couldn't exist because it has been previously established that the characters in those shows had met as adults. As for PNSD, some of it could have been considered 'canon,' except for the parts about having 80s equipment. Also Fred and Daphne's personalities were quite different on PNSD. It's hard to believe that Freddy was that much of a moron as a kid and that Daphne were more vain and selfish. I suppose it's possible though.

I don't think that any of the spin off seires should be considered canon. For example in Scooby Goes Hollywood there was a flashback scene of the gang looking the same way they do now getting Scooby as a puppy. While inside A Pup Named Scooby Doo, they apparentally had Scooby since they were kids.

I agree with that one. Besides most sources say that Shaggy is the legal owner of Scooby-Doo. But in that flashback they all picked him up from the pet store.

[zoombie]

Also Fred and Daphne's personalities were quite different on PNSD. It's hard to believe that Freddy was that much of a moron as a kid and that Daphne were more vain and selfish. I suppose it's possible though.



You can justify that as simply they changed when they got older. Fred became smarter, Daphne became less selfish. If they did a series with them at their regular age, and acted differently, than that is a problem, but this is okay. By the way while Daphne was more superfecial and selfish, she still cared about her friends, and that is the most important part in making it belivable that young Daphne from PNSD and the older Daphne we all know could be the same person.

Speaking of technology or equipment of the times, did you know the Jetsons were set in the year 2062? Only 55 years or less from flying cars. LOL

[Brainatra]

>> Tobias Think it makes your head hurt trying to link Pup as canon with the other series?

Try explaining The Flinstone Kids in relation to the original series and spin offs.<<

I've delved into this before---my sentiment: amusing show, but should be viewed only like the animated "Star Trek", as completely non-canonical save for the names of relatives, etc. that the show provides (such as Barney's younger brother named Rusty, or Fred's parents being named Ed and Edna). Fred and Barney met Betty and Wilma as teenagers or young adults at that resort, not as grade-schoolers. ;-)

Only "Kids" remnants to turn up in Flintstones spinoffs I can recall:

- "The Jetsons Meet the FLintstones" has Mr. Slate referred to as "Nate Slate", his first name from "Kids" (yeah, he's also been called "George", "Bill" and "Sylvester" among other names...).

- IIRC, Betty's mother from "Kids" shows up as an elderly woman in "I Yabba Dabba Do" (working on Pebbles' wedding dress). Betty's mother was alive and well in the original series (just unseen), per various cracks made by Barney, so this doesn't clash with anything...

- An adult Philo Quartz shows up in "A Flintstone Christmas Carol" as a cop and an "old friend" of Fred. Given Fred has a zillion old friends on the original series, this shouldn't clash with anything either. (Wasn't Philo's *dad* a cop on "Kids"? Been so long since I've seen an episode...)

[Jave]

The only way I could see Flintstone Kids fitting into the original series is that Fred and Barney never saw Wilma and Betty in between the huge gap both shows take place and they somehow forgot about each other, so when they re-met that time while working in the hotel, they actually thought they were meeting for the first time.

We also have to assume that the Dino in "Kids" is not the same as the one in the original series.

This is all possible, I guess, but man, it's stretching things.

[Brainatra]

The only way I could see Flintstone Kids fitting into the original series is that Fred and Barney never saw Wilma and Betty in between the huge gap both shows take place and they somehow forgot about each other, so when they re-met that time while working in the hotel, they actually thought they were meeting for the first time.

We also have to assume that the Dino in "Kids" is not the same as the one in the original series.

This is all possible, I guess, but man, it's stretching things.

Yeah, I don't see that either (can't imagine one forgetting about who you hung out with in grade school apparently every single day)... thus another reason I don't count "Kids" (save for the details about their families I noted above)...

[sdp]

>> Tobias Think it makes your head hurt trying to link Pup as canon with the other series?

Try explaining The Flinstone Kids in relation to the original series and spin offs.<<

I've delved into this before---

I know I remember reading those threads, there needs to be an archive for epic topics like that continuity of the flinstones thread.




I kind of like the idea of having the newer shows set in a new continuity so i liked the theory. Sure we can still fit them all together however its already complicated enough why not make it a bit simpler?
The only thing that made me think APNSD took place in the past was all the paranoia about UFOs and monsters and what not.

I remember as a kid I used to be a continuity freak (even back then) and yeah the biggest thing was the gang finding scooby while they had met in APNSD. I just thought somthing like they lost him or whatever. Their personalities didn't bother me since I thought "wow they sure changed over the years".

Sometimes the easiest explanations work best.

[Blackstar]

I personally never considered A Pup Named Scooby Doo to be canon with any other SD series. I always thought of it as merely an amusing side series, like Jim Henson's Muppet Babies or Flintstone Kids.

Muppet Babies could never have happen in the Muppet Show continuity if we're to believe that the story of The Muppet Movie was how they all met. Plus, if the Muppets all knew and lived with each other since infancy, then Kermit and Miss Piggy would be more like brother and sister to each other in their adult years. Also, what happened to Scooter's twin sister Skeeter by the time of The Muppet Show?

As for Flintstone Kids, there are a couple of things that don't make sense if you try to "canonize" the show to the original series. For instance: one thing I never understood was why the "past" version of Bedrock when Fred, Wilma and co. were kids was integrated (with African-American, Latino and Asian citizens), and yet Bedrock was all Caucasian by the time Fred and the gang had grown up. Also, how is it possible that Captain Caveman has a son (Cavey Jr.) in the Flintstone Kids, which is supposed to predate the original series, and be a bachelor by the time of The Flintstones Comedy Show. How old is Cavey anyway?

[Dub]

LONG POST IS LONG!

Short version

I tried to pull a Brainatra and break Scooby continuity down the way I see it as well as make an argument for Scrappy since I had massive amounts of time to waste and nothing better to do tonight. :)

______________________________________________


Long Version (if you care to read) is below

Flintstone Kids is one of those shows where you take the names and parental relationships of the characters as canon, and absolutely nothing else. Someone pointed out the grown up Philo Quartz thing and the reference to Betty's mother, but trying to go any further than that is MADNESS.

My personal thought is that The Flintstones, the original movie, the specials (with the exception of the Christmas special where Fred and Wilma adopt two kids), the Pebbles and Bam-Bam/Comedy show era, and the two finale movies are canon, but Flintstone Kids is best left on its own as some sort of bizarre Muppet Babies EX continuity with no emphasis on the main storyline. :p


As far as Scooby Doo goes, I don't flat out hate Scrappy-Doo but I do think that's he's one of those very rare characters that both utterly destroyed and helped a series. I've always been of the opinion that all series are connected IF you don't get so anal about certain things and let a few things go - such as the aging of characters/technology and such. There are two modes of thinking that most Scooby fans I've seen seem to take:

Continuity A) Every series is connected, but take place at different points in time to account for or retcon age discrepancy, technology, storyline, etc. Live action is not considered, but does explain one major question about Scrappy Doo.

Continuity B) Two continuities: Classic and Modern with starting with Pup, Going into the latter half of the DTV's, continuing with What's New, and currently Get a Clue.

I'm the type of person that likes to consider everything and while I'm not a fan of the live action movies the first does explain a gap thats always bugged me: namely what happened to Scrappy Doo. Let's just forget for a second that the characters age. This is the only thing to really ignore except in certain spots. This is the way I see it (pardon my huge nerd moment while I pull a Brainatra and break it down a bit) Scooby continuity as a whole can be split into "thirds":

First Third

1. Everything starts with A Pup Named Scooby Doo. Mystery Inc. was not official and was first called "The Scooby Doo Detective Agency". It aired in the 80's but I like to think that the general point in time was maybe the mid to late 60's. Reason being: Shaggy had not developed his full beatnik persona yet, people still said daddy-o (though that was moreso for gags), etc. Fluctuating technology is the only real disparaging part of this, but Pup was a purposely silly series anyway.

The thing is, Pup can't really be ignored because it's INTEGRAL to answering many questions and making a lot of connections to the main series that up until that point were red flags. We're given full confirmation of Daphne's wealth and finances (albeit exaggerated), Fred is an utter moron here but he's a kid. He's not going to be a competent leader or the stereotypical psuedo jock he'd later become. The seed of it is there though. Scooby's parents (seen during the Scooby/Shaggy/Daphne era), Scrappy's mother (seen during the Scooby/Shaggy/Scrappy era), the puppy farm he grew up on (referenced at least once or twice during the classic years), Shaggy's little sister (who is married in a two parter), everybody's last names, and the name of the town they all live in (which was a mystery up until Pup) is all confirmed. If you wanna gild the lily a bit, its already been established that Daphne's wealth is what funds Mystery Inc., you can even explain Velma's pocket computer with that.....I can't really touch the "Computer Wore Tennis Shoes" episode, that was mentioned in this thread, but if I remember correctly it did look like a gigantic old school mainframe that was used back then. This series is what you get if you exaggerate Scooby as much as possible (kind of like how kids tend to do)

2. Scooby Doo, Where Are You - the original comes next. By this time the kids are in their mid to late teens, officially the Scooby Doo Detective Agency becomes Mysteries, Inc. (though it is never officially called such until Zombie Island/What's New). The thing is, character development was not a big issue with this series, but in a sense, the show is a bit more serious than any other show that follows it. That's why the original and maybe the Scooby Doo show feel so different compared to anything that followed from Scrappy onwards. The setting is still the 60's (malt shoppes, dance shows, barn dances, general 60's lingo and atmosphere) pepper the show. The first half of the most classic villians appear here: Creeper, The Green Ghosts, Wax Phantom, Miner '49er, Redbeard. This show is what you'd get if you stripped the series as a whole of all of the extra stuff that followed just went to the cores of the characters. Fred is mellowed out and not a jock, Daphne is vain but nowhere near as Anti-Paris Hiltony as Pup, Velma is the more outspoken and less quiet and shy around her friends, Shaggy is in FULL BEATNIK mode and has a personality that matches with and is the basis for Get a Clue surprisingly - not as OMGWTF COWARD - as he'd be later and willing to be more active, and Scooby is Scooby :))

3. The New Scooby Doo Movies - The nice thing about this show is that the adventures can pretty much fit anywhere in the first third of Scooby continuity. It's INCREDIBLY far fetched to believe that the gang would run into classic stars back to back to back. So I like to take the approach that these were adventures with celebrities that they came across in their travels that can fit at any point between Where Are You and The Scooby Doo Show. This also still fits with the mid to late 60's theme since most of the celebrities they run into are all from that era.

4. The Scooby Doo Show - The largest and final chunk of the "first thirds" of Scooby continuity at 40 episodes. This series is my personal favorite, and while the formula wore thin near its end, it arguably produced some of the most memorable villains and stories: The Gator Ghoul, The 10,000 Volt Ghost, The Strawberry, Vanilla, and Chocolate Phantoms, The Williwaw, Iron Face, Jaguaro, etc. Scooby's family post pup is fleshed out for the first time, with the introduction of Scooby Dum. Contrary to popular belief, Scooby-Dum is NOT a bad character. Heck, he only appears in what? 2 or 3 eps out of 40? And Scooby-Dee, his other cousin in 1. And even then he is synonymous with one of the more famous SD villians: The Gator Ghoul - in which we learn who his masters are. The animation near the end of the series really does trump the original stilted stuff but not in everyway, though it is leagues better in look that "New Scooby Doo Movies".

I like to think that this show takes place in the very late 60's, very early 70's namely due to the one episode that dealt with the Disco Demon at the Roller Rink. The characters are still teenagers, but it makes sense with an episode focusing on Disco in particular. The main drawback is that Shaggy's cowardice become a little more prominent here.

Second Thirds

5. Scooby Doo and Scrappy Doo - The second third of SD continuity begins with the introduction of Scrappy Doo who's story is told in the introduction of the show: In cartoon continuity, sent to live with his - by now reasonably well known as the mascot of Mysteries Inc. - Uncle Scooby, in real life, introduced to add something fresh to the show. These are the only adventures of Scrappy with the full gang minus cameos later, but - if you're to go by the full story, seeds of the eventual breakup of Mysteries Inc. can be found here. The biggest drawbacks: Fred, Velma, and Daphne strike out on their own a lot more while Shaggy and Scooby's cowardice becomes full blown, with Scrappy Doo acting as the "dynamic" destroyer, dragging the duo unintentionally back to fight. With Shaggy and Scooby no longer forced to be brave, their better parts go out the window. :sad:

OPTIONAL. Live Action Movie, Point I - I dont consider the movies to be in continuity due to their discrepancy made about HOW the final breakup happens VS when Scrappy Doo is dropped off at Yucca Flats.

However it can be assumed that it's kind of like The Flintstone Kids.

You can take certain elements FROM it to expand on things, but to fully involve it would be madness. If you were to tie anything from the first movie in, it would make sense to incur that there was a gradual dissolving from the Puppy Hour period onwards: Scrappy Doo's inclusion VS Fred, Velma, and Daphne wanting to do their own things and the TRUE breakup with Scrappy being sent off to Yucca Flats to be explained later.

6. Scooby Doo & Scrappy Doo Puppy Hour I: Shaggy/Scooby/Scrappy - The breakup, and arguably the worst/longest part of SD continuity as a whole. This is the series that earns Scrappy his hate. It can be ASSUMED that Mysteries Inc. is still active, but with only Shaggy, Scooby, and Scrappy left to helm it. We don't discover the fates of Fred, Velma, and Daphne until later. It can also be assumed that without Daphne to fund things, and Shaggy and Scooby's cowardice now gone into unrestrained overdrive, they nearly ran Mysteries Inc into the ground and out of business. My reason for saying that is a comment made by Daph and the next part that follows. Mysteries are no longer actually resolved rather than ran away from, and some episodes take a more "slice of life" cartoony approach with no mystery at all. Real monsters are introduced as well as people under masks, but we never get any real resolution on things. The only key point here is that we meet Scrappy's mother Ruby-Doo (seen again in Pup) for the first time. Things are pretty dire until -

7. Scooby Doo & Scrappy Doo Puppy Hour II: Fearless Detective Agency) - The only reason that Shaggy and Scooby would abandon Mysteries Inc. would be that they couldn't manage it on their own anymore, so to earn extra money they take on cases from Shaggy's Uncle Fearless and his Detective Agency. This brought a mystery element back to the show and is the one tiny bright spot during the second half of the Scrappy era continuity.

I figure that this series and the previous one take place during the 70's. At this point aging becomes a problem because the characters are still "teenagers", so suspension of belief and "extended aging" has to give way at some point. Also, notice that I ignore the Yabba Doo segments that happened during this part of the show. That part of continuity comes later...

SIDE NOTE: It's the only problematic part of Scooby continuity but it would make sense that even though they aren't in the Mystery Machine for these adventures: Scooby Doo and the Ghoul School and Scooby Doo and the Boo Brothers probably take place some time during this era. I like to think that they happen just before the Fearless series, but cannot take place after the reintroduction of Daphne due to her absence. The Red Mystery Machine was not fully introduced until 13 Ghosts, but it wasnt officially called that during these movies either which is the key point. Also, even though Shaggy is in his red shirt it doesn't work to chunk this series in with 13 Ghosts. Thus, it can be assumed the red van here is the predecessor to the red Mystery Machine. It also fits better before Fearless due to Shaggy looking for a new job and him looking for his inheritance which would fit in the monetary issues noted before the fearless detective agency period.

8. The New Scooby Doo Mysteries I - In real life, this was the attempt by HB at revitalizing the show again after realizing the horrible mistake they made with Scrappy. Thing is, to the kiddies they couldnt just get rid of him, but they still had to do something without going back to the old stale formula....so Daphne was reintroduced and we learn what happened to her for the first time: She'd become a junior reporter in Coolsville. At this point we have confirmation that the gang has all graduated and moved on due to an episode where Shaggy and Daphne revisit thier old high school (The Creature of Chem Lab). Daphne returns to funding Mysteries Inc. using it as a vehicle to help her with her reporting career and still keep in contact with the mystery part of things. Because of this, Shaggy and Scooby no longer need to rely on Shaggy's Uncle Fearless. The masked man approach returns as well BUT things become a little more fantastical in terms of adventures/story. A recurring villian, Thaddeus Blimp, who only appears in 1 or 2 eps also appears.

In terms of continuity, everything from this point on probably takes place during mid college with the former part of the Scrappy era being early college (thus making this portion of the show probably the very late 70's to the very start of the 80's). Scrappy slowly begins to "mellow" out and become semi-likeable to most people as well and the cowardice from Shaggy/Scooby being slowly amped down but NOWHERE near the calmer levels of Where Are You.

9. The New Scooby Doo Mysteries II - Scrappy is still prominent here, but he's not the full blown character ruining pariah that he's known for if you take it in context. This series is definately early 80's in terms of continuity, probably late college (AGAIN, IGNORE AGING). Real monsters were here, but the classic monsters took precedent. By this point, Shaggy and Scooby were paired more on their own and Daphne and Scrappy took the roles of "Fred and Velma" while maintaining their own personalities in terms of mystery solving. Long episodes returned on occasion (in the form of two parters) and Fred and Velma finally begin to make cameo appearances again.

This series holds a lot of continuity nuggets (post and previous) that were explained fully in Pup: Fred has become a mystery writer, Velma is an intern for NASA, we meet Shaggy's sister for the first time as well as Shaggy's full name, we learn Fred and Velma's last names, we meet Scooby's parents, more members of his family, and learn of the puppy farm he grew up on. The only really big drawback was that it was far more fantastical than any series prior to it (Secret Agents named Coldfinger and Ancient Astronauts?). It never quite reached classic status, but I'd say that of the two revivals this one was WAY better enacted than any of the Puppy Hour series in terms of staying truer to what made Scooby work. This series, and the last are probably what earns Scrappy his few fans.

SIDE NOTE: I like to think that even though it does not feature Daphne, because of it's tone Scooby Doo and the Reluctant Werewolf fits far better at the tail end of NSD Mysteries (A) due to its animation B) due to the appearance of Shaggy's house as a setting C) due to the only appearance of Shaggy's girlfriend who acts in place of Daphne since she wouldn't make sense in the role at all and D) due to the appearance of real monsters who were shown to exist during the NSD portion of continuity. Plus Scrappy is the most tolerable here out of all the classic movies.

10. The 13 Ghosts of Scooby Doo - Because of the nature of this series, I like to think it is the one part of Scooby continuity equivalent to a side story (like what you may see from a japanese anime or manga series that has a spinoff): It's in continuity but doesn't affect the main portion at all. You can either include it or not. The only problem is that the 13th Ghost was never found... ;)

The last classic Scooby Doo cartoon takes place in the mid 80's continuity wise. No fake monsters whatsoever, but its looked on fairly well by most people. The premise is ENTIRELY different (only Get a Clue is as radical as it). The Red Mystery machine is officially shown here and this series is the last one to be featured with Scrappy. Daphne is around with a makeover but Velma and Fred don't appear due to its short length. Flim-Flam is introduced as the final classic member of Mysteries Inc., moreso as a foil to Scrappy much like Shaggy is to Scooby. This is the one show where most can agree that Scrappy is probably his most likeable: he doesnt get in the way, or force himself upon Scooby and Shaggy but actually does TRY to be more helpful in some episode. The cowardice factor however, is still in effect.

End of Second Era

OPTIONAL. Live Action Movie, Point II - The Yucca Flats portion of the Puppy Hour was mentioned in the Live Action movie. Shaggy and Scooby are nowhere to be found and Scrappy is living with Scooby's cousin Yabba-Doo and his master, Deputy Dusty in the tiny town of Yucca Flats.

I don't like to include the movies in continuity because of what was mentioned above BUT it would make sense that the gang gets together for one final adventure, breaks up, and drops Scrappy off at Yucca Flats for good.

The only thing I don't like about this is that A) We don't know how they broke up in the cartoons. We're just confirmed it happened thanks to Zombie Island. Secondly, haters of Scrappy may like the idea of him being a power mad sabotaging freak (which is kind of what his personality was to start out with) but it can't be denied that Scrappy DID mellow out bit by bit as time went on. Thats why I like the explanation of HOW Scrappy was dropped off, but not WHY it happened. It fits with his EARLIER motif (him just being an annoyingly bad seed) but it doesn't quite fit with how Scrappy was portrayed by the end of the classic series. Nor does it explain what became of Flim-Flam if you're to count 13 Ghosts as a side story.

We'll probably never know this until someone has the balls to decide what became of Scrappy Doo in the cartoons and whether they'll follow the route of the movie (making him a villian) or just saying thathe was adopted by Flim-Flam and they went off on their own direction (which is not canonical but makes better sense)


Final Thirds: Second Revival


11. The First Four DTV's - No one can dispute that Scooby Doo on Zombie Island is the official revival of the third era. It can be assumed that everything from this point on happens after college. The time period is modern BUT, yet again suspension of disbelief must come into play. Note that even in What's New they're still called "meddling kids" by most of their enemies. Zombie Island puts a more adult spin on them but we all know that was retconned and they were "slightly de-aged" a bit in terms of personalities and acting for What's New and onwards in order to make things more on terms with Where Are You.

Furthermore, Zombie Island picks up on EVERYTHING that was started in second era: Daphne is a full fledged reporter, Fred stopped writing to become Daphne's camerman, Velma's internship is over and she works unhappily in a book store, and Scooby and Shaggy are slackers bouncing from job to job (living in a house which can be assumed to be the same one from Reluctant Werewolf and shown again at the very start of Get A Clue), and by the time Cyber Chase rolls around we're seeing multiple fledged references to The Scooby Doo Show in the form of its ghosts.

Zombie Island reboots Mysteries Inc in full. Witch's Ghost, Cyber Chase, and Alien Invaders follow the formula. This is the last we'll see of real monsters and the gradual reintroduction of classic men in masks. By the end, everything is back to status quo.

OPTIONAL. The Next Two DTV's - I have NO IDEA where Legend of the Vampire and Monster of Mexico fit. It's obvious that these two DTV's are the prototypes for What's New Scooby Doo, but even if Legend of the Vampire has the Hex Girls from Witch's Ghost, they can't fit in with the former DTV's because of the incredibly old-school approach to both and they can't fit in what What's New and the Following DTV's for the same reason. (In comparison to What's New the approach is absolutely archaic.)

You could stretch it and say that they take place after Alien Invaders, but IMO its SUCH a huge step back that its absolutely jarring in retrospect to what came both before and after them. Thus I label these two in continuity after Witch's Ghost, but extremely "iffy".

11. What's New, Scooby Doo? - The reasons that the show fits in continuity with the rest has been listed above by myself and many others. Its a direct follow up to whats come before it (the post Scrappy-era) and what was started by the DTV's. And as far as the aging thing goes, that was honestly a problem long before What's New even came into play (especially if you believe that Scooby and co were in high school for over a decade and college for even longer). :P

Thus why I gradually said ignore the aging bit and act if the gang are young adults restarting their business in full swing POST COLLEGE as was established in the first DTV's. Its kinda similar to how comic book retcons depict Superman from showing up later than he actually did to make him more modern and up to date, but keep quite a lot of what's originally there. Lots of Pup references can be found here: Coolsville, the flashback to them as kids (looking like the Scott Jeralds designs of Pup), among other minimal references to the DTV's themselves.

12. The Current DTV's - Every DTV since the start of What's New has basically been an extended episode with a more intricate story & plot attatched to it. That includes: The Loch Ness Monster, Where's My Mummy?, Aloha SD, Pirates Ahoy, and Chill Out which drops in October. Even with Get a Clue, this doesn't look to change any time soon. Because of this you can technically say that What's New is still going, albeit in DTV form and that the current DTV's follow the episodes of the show. That doesn't look to change anytime soon.

13. Shaggy & Scooby Doo Get a Clue - Current series, based on the first episode takes place immediately after What's New. Its the first Scooby show to actually give detailed character development for Shaggy and Scooby and the first series to actually try and depict them as something a bit more serious and rid them of the whole overly cowardly bit since the original. It's not the first show to split the gang, but this time it doesn't do it at the expense of the characters and everything that makes them work. Introduces a recurring villian and does not totally destroy Mysteries Inc. in the process as Fred, Velma, and Daphne are still solving their own mysteries, while Shaggy and Scooby deal with the recurring plot of theirs.


**scrolls back up**

,.....JEEZ THAT WAS LONGER THAN I EXPECTED. Kinda fun to do in a "huge waste of time" kind of thing though. I think I'll leave this to Brainatra in the future. :)

[Eric B]

In the canon I had set up on my page:
http://members.aol.com/bdmnqr2/scoobystory.html
I insist that Scooby and the gang were "meddling kids" who worked their way up to "detective agency". It fit perfectly. There never was any such thing as "Mysteries Inc." That was the name of a cartoon block on Cartoon Network (which ironically was for all the ripoff shows and not Scooby himself). They were young adults doing young adult type recreationa activities, who stumbled upon suspicious activity, and then "meddled", and ended up unfurling a mystery. The Pup "Scooby Doo Detective Agency" was for kids' play, not a real agency.
It was with the Fearless series they began "climbing the crime-solving ladder", by first working at a relative's detective agency. Then, they followed Daphne on her "snoopy reporter" job. It was not until the second season with Daphne that Scooby now had his own agency, which was called the "Scooby Doo Detective Agency", not "Mysteries Inc". So you can see the progression from meddlers, to working at an agency, to having their own. The next step was actual paranormal ghostcatching. Even if they hadn't released the 13 ghosts, they were still apparently geared up for that type of action with all the ghostbuster style equipment, the new advanced Mystery Machine, and let's not forget now, their own plane, the "flying" Mystery Machine.

So the Scooby, Scrappy Shaggy only series and movies could be seen simply as "breaks" from the business, or their time off, and occuring in the actual sequence they aired. The first batch of short episodes were before their first true detective job, and the last 13 of these, which were during the Fearless series was simply their days off, doing Teen Center activities. The movies were another "break" afterwards, as they still had the new Mystery Machine and Shaggy's new shirt. No reason to move that anywhere.

It is hard to make Pup canonical, since it is such a stretch to say that Fred could have ever grown from that character bearing his name, even by the wildest stretch of the imagination. And while the later Daphne who returned and filled in for Velma, and had all that spunk and was no longer ditzy could have grown upfom the Pup Daphne, the earlier feminine, "innocent" ditzy Daphne also could not have once been that loud mouthed kid. It would be more likely that the feminine Daphne "came out of her shell" and became smarter and wittier, then to say that the loud mouthed kid Daphne became the earlier one.

However, since both Fred and Daphne's Pup personalities permanently "rubbed off" on the character franchises, it is more imagineable that the young Fred and Daphne grew into the DTV and later versions. Otherwise, the latter day series' would simply lie after the last "Break" with just Shaggy, Scooby an Scrappy, followed by Scrappy leaving,and Shaggy going out alone on Arabian Nights.
It does seem at first glance that Zombie Island tried to pick up with the first breakup, but rewrote it (their "careers" were different). The mindset at the time was to completely erase the entire Scrappy period. But that really could have been a second breakup. Then the first live action movie also tried to recapture the first breakup. It seemed to be following the actual history, where you had the gang (and all the 60's references), then Scrappy was added, then they broke up. (And Scrappy stayed in Yucca Flats with Yabba for awhile). Only they had Scrappy leave before the breakup, on bad terms, and Shaggy and Scooby go out by themselves, and they had the Mystery Machine. That was almost correct, except that Scrappy should have been there with them. Yucca Flats whould have been after that, followed by a return of him with Daphne. But they were twisting the whole thing to justify making him evil, so he had already stormed off, on his way to plot his revenge.
So maybe Shaggy and Scooby in the Mystery Machine by themselves was covering the Arabian Nights period, and the entire Scrappy period, encompassing the first breakup, and gradual reunion was represented by his earlier appearance. But that won't work, because the gang had not gone on their new careers yet. That was strictly the first breakup and reunion, and this was supposedly what was covered by the live action.

The best way to reconcile all of that is to say that we did not see every single move they made, so just because an event doesn't fit an actual episode or series seen, doesn't mean it wasn't happening. Actually in episodes witout the gang, as I said, that could have been their spare time, and the very next day they were with the gang, only it wasn't aired.
The best way to fix the whole thing with Scrappy is to make the movie version a fake. The haters had rewritten the series to make him a bad influence long enough, so it's time to undo that, because it was totally out of character to begin with.

[zoombie]

I haven't seen the Pup Named Scooby Doo series in a long time, so I ask this, did Fred's parents appear in any episodes of Pup Named Scooby Doo?, if so are they anything like his parents in the direct to DVD movie Pirates Ahoy!?

Anyone notice that young Velma from Pup Named Scooby Doo looks sugnificantly younger than the other kids? Maybe she skipped a grade, she is the smart one of the group, so it makes sense.

[Eric B]

His uncle was in one of them. He was the publisher of the National Exaggerator.

[Brainatra]

I haven't seen the Pup Named Scooby Doo series in a long time, so I ask this, did Fred's parents appear in any episodes of Pup Named Scooby Doo?, if so are they anything like his parents in the direct to DVD movie Pirates Ahoy!?

Anyone notice that young Velma from Pup Named Scooby Doo looks sugnificantly younger than the other kids? Maybe she skipped a grade, she is the smart one of the group, so it makes sense.

No, they didn't appear in "Pup"; Fred's parents made their first-time-ever appearance in "Pirates Ahoy".

My two cents:

- Interesting theory for finding an actual use of that Scrappy-dropped-off-at-Yucca-Flats scene, as mediocre as the live-action movies were. One note though: Yabba was Scooby's brother, not cousin (Scrappy called him "Uncle Yabba" in those series of shorts)...

- I assume all the series and movies besides "Pup" happened in the order they were produced, for lack of reason to assume otherwise. The only non-canonical Scooby entries for me would be "Laff-a-lympics" (more of a "DC vs. Marvel"-type of cross-show crossover) and "Scooby Goes Hollywood" (since it treats Scooby and the gang like "actors" Roger-Rabbit style, and how the gang found Scooby doesn't jibe with the fact that Scooby is Shaggy's dog---I'd assume Shaggy's family would've been the ones to adopt Scooby. Assuming the gang were actually at their "Pup" ages, the flashback to Scooby's first birthday party in "Hollywood" could still count in my book though.).

-B.

[Mister Intensity]

Wow, you guys did some good work reconciling Scooby continuity. As far as I'm concerned, The original sixteen year run is one continuity, pretty much in the order that they aired. The only real exception is that The New Scooby-Doo Movies take place between Where Are You episodes but not Scooby-Doo Show episodes (the Movies were more in the style of Where Are You). Things tend to get messy with the DTVs. The first four DTVs seem to include everything pre-Scrappy as continuity (although you may be able to fit in the first Scrappy season) but the later DTVs seems to take place in What's New continuity, which seems to take place "pre break-up," while the early DTV's were clearly post break-up. Introducing and reintroducing the Hex Girls really confuses things.

What's New could include any of the pre-Scrappy episodes and seems to be a continuation of the Mysteries Inc. era if Scrappy haven't come along. Yeah, there's a difference in slang and technology in the earlier and later series but those could be easily ignored -- we're talking about a series throughout a period of almost 40 years.

As for A Pup Named and What's New, I'm not sure if a A Pup Named is in the same continuity. Even the flashbacks to A Pup Named were more of an Easter Egg gag than an acknowledgement of continuity between shows (notice that the sign said Velma's Fifth Birthday). I'm more inclined to place A Pup Named as something useful for filling in the blanks but not as continuity.

Mister Intensity

[Blackstar]

- Interesting theory for finding an actual use of that Scrappy-dropped-off-at-Yucca-Flats scene, as mediocre as the live-action movies were. One note though: Yabba was Scooby's brother, not cousin (Scrappy called him "Uncle Yabba" in those series of shorts)...

One minor glitch in that theory is that in A Pup Named Scooby Doo, it was mentioned that Scooby only had 3 siblings; Ruby (Scrappy future mother), Skippy and Howdy. No mention of Yabba. Unless Howdy changed his name to Yabba later on.

[Dub]

Wasn't Yabba kind of older than Scooby though and was it ever really confirmed that he was his brother? It's a stretch but he could be a great uncle. Like maybe brother to one of Scooby's parents (probably his dad since his mom has that freaky dutch accent)

[veemonjosh]

My only question is...

Where does the Johnny Bravo episode take place in all of this?

[zoombie]

I found a parody on You Tube of a parody of Scooby Doo and the concept of Pup Named Scooby Doo and other babyification shows like it from the comedy central series TV Funhouse (not the one on Saturday Night Live).

It is called Fetus Scooby Doo. I don't know if I should post the link, I am not sure if it is against the rules.

[Brainatra]

One minor glitch in that theory is that in A Pup Named Scooby Doo, it was mentioned that Scooby only had 3 siblings; Ruby (Scrappy future mother), Skippy and Howdy. No mention of Yabba. Unless Howdy changed his name to Yabba later on.

Yeah, I thought of that too... possible explanations:

- Yabba was born sometime after that episode (as a younger brother of the pups). Yes, in real life, dogs have multiple puppies at once in big litters, but since Scrappy was apparently born on his own (similar to most human babies) sans any siblings, the same could be the case for Yabba.

- Yabba is actually adopted by Scooby's parents, not a natural-born sibling.

- Yabba had long since left home and couldn't make it back for the Doo family reunion.

I favor the first explanation myself, since it seems the simplest explanation/fits with how Scrappy was born...

>>Wasn't Yabba kind of older than Scooby though and was it ever really confirmed that he was his brother? It's a stretch but he could be a great uncle. Like maybe brother to one of Scooby's parents (probably his dad since his mom has that freaky dutch accent)<<

No indication (or feeling on my part) that Yabba was significantly older than Scoob, just a "Wild West" cowboy type. Given this era introduced various relatives of Scooby (mostly cousins, such as Whoopsy and Dooby), imagine they intended Yabba to be Scooby's brother (otherwise doubt they'd have Scrappy call him "Uncle Yabba" repeatedly ;-) ).

Skipping back a few posts, as for what happened to Scrappy (after "Werewolf"), in my opinion, he simply went back home to his mother's. (Yeah, a boring suggested answer I know :-) ).