Mark Evanier on the Birth of Scrappy Doo (Talkback)

[Mister Intensity]

Mark Evanier has recently started a series of posts on the Birth of Scrappy-Doo on his blog, http://www.newsfromme.com/archives/2007_02_14.html#012936. I for one am glad he is setting the record straight because I do feel that the Scrappy hate has been taken out of proportion. He points out, rightly, that the formula was getting stale at that point and a change was really necessary, and ultimately kept the show going for another few years. Ironically, the same thing is happening now, the formula became stale so they retoolled the show to keep it going. It'll be interesting if there will be an "after the fact" backlash to the current Shaggy and Scooby-Doo format change years from now like the "after the fact" Scrappy backlash of a few years ago.

Mister Intensity

[Eric B]

And at th3e same time, they have this article on the limited animation techniques of the Filmation Star Trek series. http://news.toonzone.net/article.php?ID=15207 It explains the low budget they had, and how the techniques worked (except to those who will now be getting the DVD and stopping the frames, and such).
So here we have two similarly maligned entities in the cynical world of cartoon fans today (a character, and a whole studio), put into perspective. It's about time.

[Mister Intensity]

I enjoyed the Filmation Trek article. It goes a long way in explaining the cost-cutting techniques used back them and are still used today. It does put things into historical context, something a lot of people miss when criticising the time period.

Mister Intensity

[Maxie Zeus]

Thanks for pointing to that blog post. Very interesting.

Evanier writes:

[Scrappy haters] are, I believe, a fairly recent faction, and I don't think they're as widespread as their noise level would indicate. I recall Scrappy being wildly popular the first few years he was on the scene. He certainly bolstered Scooby's ratings and kept the series on a good 2-3 years longer than it would have lasted without him.

He might be right, but I can testify to loathing Scrappy at first sight when he hit the airwaves. I was about nine years old at the time and a Scooby fanatic. But even though the phrase "jumping the shark" hadn't been invented yet, even at that tender age I felt that Scrappy had killed something fundamental about Scooby, and within a few episodes I gave up on the show completely.

[judyindisguise]

Mark Evanier has recently started a series of posts on the Birth of Scrappy-Doo on his blog, http://www.newsfromme.com/archives/2007_02_14.html#012936. I for one am glad he is setting the record straight because I do feel that the Scrappy hate has been taken out of proportion. He points out, rightly, that the formula was getting stale at that point and a change was really necessary, and ultimately kept the show going for another few years. Ironically, the same thing is happening now, the formula became stale so they retoolled the show to keep it going. It'll be interesting if there will be an "after the fact" backlash to the current Shaggy and Scooby-Doo format change years from now like the "after the fact" Scrappy backlash of a few years ago.

Mister Intensity

I think novelty does have a certain power. But crap is crap. I watched stuff as a kid I wouldn't touch with a ten-foot-pole now. On the other hand, the good stuff I watched - the first Sonic series, and all the Disney films - I still love. Good stuff stands the test of time. Crap doesn't.

[thartman1956]

Thanks for pointing to that blog post. Very interesting.

Evanier writes:



He might be right, but I can testify to loathing Scrappy at first sight when he hit the airwaves. I was about nine years old at the time and a Scooby fanatic. But even though the phrase "jumping the shark" hadn't been invented yet, even at that tender age I felt that Scrappy had killed something fundamental about Scooby, and within a few episodes I gave up on the show completely.


My take on the Scrappy debate here is that I watched the 1979 episodes which had the entire gang. When the gang disappeared in November 1980, I said "What the heck is that?" and stopped watching. I resumed watching when Daphne returned in 1983 (New Scooby and Scrappy-Doo). I watched the following seasons episodes (New Scooby-Doo Mysteries), and 13 Ghosts of Scooby-Doo, which wasn't really all that bad. After that, the only one of the "Superstar" movies I watched was "Reluctant Warewolf" which featured Goggie. Looking back, though, I find that even some of those "gangless" Scooby and Scrappy episodes looks good compared to the current mess that is called "Shaggy and Scooby-Doo Get a Clue".

[Sidewinder1984]

I've always enjoyed reading Evanier's writings. Good to see someone is at least trying to set the record straight.:)

[Super Leviathan]

Er, i've never cared about Scooby one way or the other and would change the channel whenever it came on (the only other show that has ever compelled me to do so on the "Big Three" is the Wild Thornberries), so all of this is foreign to me. If Mark's setting the reco5rd straight, then set it straight damn good says I.

(For the record, I've always regarded Pokemon as being much, much better than either Scooby or the Thornberries)

[Mister Intensity]

Part II is posted, which also contains an interesting tidbit about the creation of another Hanna Barbara character.

www.newsfromme.com/ (http://www.newsfromme.com/)

Mister Intensity

[Eric B]

Thanks!!!
Been waiting for that; even checking the blog every now and then.

This one was quite interesting!
So the character really was taken from Henery Hawk. I HAVE to add THIS to my page, since I had already compared him to Henery (along with others). The difference is that Henery's elders are not scaredy cats, so the aspect of Scrappy where he tries to get the elder to fight is absent. The original premise for him was being too young to catch chickens on his own, not that the parents or grandfather were themselves scared of them.
Sylvester Jr. Picks up this aspect of Scrappy, but leaves off being a feisty fighter himself.
One WB character that captured both aspects of Scrappy, as well as being an actual puppy himself, is Chester, when Spike becomes afraid of Sylvester either because he is being replaced by a wildcat, or turning into Jeckyll himself. I'm surprised they didn't say Scrappy was based on him as well.

Its funny that Scrappy is revealed to be so WB-influenced, because the short episodes that followed the initial season so reminded me of the classic shorts in some respects. Perhaps this WB association will further get people to see the value of him, and give him some respect. Henery was REALLY like Scrappy in his first film, especially when face to face with the rooster.

The info about the other character was very intersting. The first thing I thought, though was that HB had already had other characters that fit the original description, and the final design was ripped right off (identically) of another character (or two) they co-owned.
One new thing I wish I could ask Mark or someone else who knew, is if Takomoto's Scrappy design may have been based on the "feisty little dog" that was one of the original ideas for Scooby. This I had discovered later on when doing some research for more recent edits to my page. Remember, they were deciding between the big shaggy dog and the great dane, and had a problem because the former was too much like Hot Dog and the latter was a knockoff for Marmaduke (which he really is, when you compare them). But a "small feisty dog" had been proposed as well! Now THAT would be something. In fact, two of the Hair Bears remind me of Scooby and Scrappy, and makes me wonder what it would have been like if both both used all along. Then he would be accepted, and not looked on as the JTS catalyst of Scooby.

[thartman1956]

I've read Mr. Evanier's blog on his involvement in Scrappy's creation. Very interesting. Looking back, I've always felt that the pilot episode "The Scarab Lives!" wasn't a bad episode at all. Another episode that season, "I Left My Neck in San Francisco", also wasn't bad. But my theory on why Scrappy became so hated was that he took time away from Fred, Daphne, and Velma; in other words, Scooby's nephew upset the "chemistry" of the show, and ultimately crowded Fred and the girls off of it. I belong to a Scooby discussion forum, and the people there have always stated that if Fred and the girls aren't present, it isn't worth watching. Concerning Scrappy's WB influence, even Scrappy himself acknowledges it in a Halloween-themed episode of The New Scooby-Doo Mysteries (1984) where he says, "What's up, Doc?"

[Eric B]

As I always say everytime this discussion comes up, that chemistry had already faded before Scrappy! That season right before him (which they keep billing as the "lost" "third season") might as well have been a "lost true first season" of Shaggy and Scooby Doo Get a Clue, because it had become divided between Shaggy and Scooby with the villain, and Fred and the girls, who always stayed together (and could well have been replaced by a single character) became much less important. At first, I didn't think Scrappy was the antidote for this either, but a few seasons later, I came to see how if the series is now about Shaggy and Scooby running from ridiculous looking monsters; hey they still do this in the non-mystery shorts, and they are still themselves and just as funny. Scrappy was like Fred and the girls wrapped up into one character (a combination of smart and danger-prone) and much funnier.

IIRC, the Blue Scarab was one of the ideas he took from the comic series he referred to.

Just curious; Which Scooby board are you referring to?

Great point about his Bugs Bunny act! Forgot about that at the moment!

[Mister Intensity]

I'm not a fan of the first season of Scooby and Scrappy-Doo. Between the lost chemistry between Scooby and Shaggy and the rest of the gang (the Scrappy season was pretty much a continuation of the previous season) and the how annoyingly rough Scrappy was the first season (IMO, he wasn't likeably until his third season) that season is virtually unwatchable for me. I do admit, "Enter the Scarab" and "I Left My Neck in San Francisco" are the two best episodes in that season. If you really think about it, those two episodes were also the only two where you get the sense that Scooby and Shaggy had some type of friendship with Fred, Daphine, and Velma, as well as the only two episodes that really took advantage of how Scrappy changed the character dynamic. Other than those two episodes, it was essentially Scooby, Shaggy and Scrappy doing their comedy routine with the monster of the week with a brief scene or two of Fred, Daphine and Velma finding clues.

Mister Intensity

[thartman1956]

Just curious; Which Scooby board are you referring to?



It's a Velma Dinkley group on Yahoo, where I'm also a chat moderator. It also has a companion Web site at: http://www.velmadinkley.com which has a link to the Yahoo Group.

[Eric B]

Oh, THAT one. I kind of figured, because I am a member of that group (though I haven't posted there in a long while) and I knew they always looked down on Scrappy there.

My page does link to velmadinkley.com's excellent profiles of the voice actors, though. (I emailed them years ago, because it left out Maria Frumkin, the true "third" Velma of part of the Scrappy era (the end of the 1979 season, and the "special guest" appearances of 1984). Was this done deliberately?

[Eric B]

OK, part 3 is now up:
http://www.newsfromme.com/archives/2007_05_04.html#013405
This one goes mainly into issues he had in script writing.
The next one will discuss voice acting, which apparently had turned over several times before Scrappy actually debuted.

[Martianinvader]

Hah, this is crazy. There's so much only a select few people know. And even though it was in part 2 and not part 3, I have to point out that Yosemite Sam to Captain Caveman transformation. Wow. "He just got so hairy that we had no choice."

[Gusto the Punker]

I love that article, but I'm guessing I'm one of the few Scrappy lovers.

[Mister Intensity]

Interesting article. I wonder if that season would have been better if Evanier was the Story Editor. The Scarb Lives, the episode in question, was one of the few decent episodes of that season. I it would have been interesting to get a sense of what Mr. Barbara's notes said.

I'm looking forward to the next one with details about the voice casting, especially since Scrappy was recast the following season (imo, it was the right decision).

Mister Intensity

[Mister Intensity]

The latest chapter is fasinating. If they saved those alternate takes of The Scarab Lives I hope they include those alternate voice tracks if and when they release the first Scrappy season on DVD.

Mister Intensity

[zoombie]

This thread talked about characters influenced Scrappy, what about characters that were influenced by Scrappy.

Is it just me, or is the Simpson show within a show character Pochie The Dog, a parody of Scrappy Doo and his negative feedback.

[Dub]

The latest chapter is indeed fascinating.

I always said that Scrappy never truly bothered me in the first season he appeared in. It was only when they started doing random shorts that he became utterly intolerable and in the last few eps of the 80's series and 13 Ghosts that he became somewhat mellowed out again.

It's a shame that early/late Scrappy doesn't get due credit. At that part he's actually a tolerable little creature. :) Its the middle part of Scrappy's career - where he's the most annoying and where the show itself really takes a nosedive - that gets him all the (well deserved) hatred.

I'm almost hoping that if they do release the Scrappy years on DVD they skip over the part with the Puppy Hour shorts and just do the first season, the 80's series, and 13 Ghosts. I'd buy that before I'd ever think of touching the rest of that nonsense. =\

[Sidewinder1984]

This thread talked about characters influenced Scrappy, what about characters that were influenced by Scrappy.


Look no further than the Saturday Supercade version of Donkey Kong Jnr. I only saw one segment that was posted on the Net somewhere, but it was enough for anyone to see how much of a Scrappy rip-off he was in those shorts. (Ironically, Frank Welker did his voice, and sounds just like Don Messick's interpretation of Scrappy).

Is it just me, or is the Simpson show within a show character Pochie The Dog, a parody of Scrappy Doo and his negative feedback.

Not specifically, I think Poochie was intended generally to spoof all those characters that got crowbarred into a show to increase ratings - of which Scrappy is one.

[Eric B]

WOW! Finally! All this year I had been checking over there every now and then, and then I would forget for awhile, and have to go through months of blog entries until I start seeing familiar stuff (the newest stuff when I last visited).

Here, BTW, is the link:
http://www.newsfromme.com/archives/2007_10_02.html#014111

So they basically went to just about every voice actor in the business, and then some! Messick, who was the ultimate voice used, was even tried, and deemed the wrong voice! And also Welker, who as was mentioned, did the good Scrappy knockoff DK Jr. So that's how he would have sounded with him. If I read correctly, Welker is the one who coined "puppy power" as an ad-lib! Now it becomes all the more certain that the "Monkey muscles" shout was based on Scrappy. All he did was change it from "puppy" to "monkey", and replace "power" with a suitable "m" word.

MEL BLANC? (The first choice, yet!) Maybe he would have sounded either like Henery Hawk, who as we saw earlier, he was based on. That would have been something! I could also see him sounding somewhat like Bugs Bunny, to go along with his chutzpah. When Bugs is dragged away by the cops after Cecil tricks him into going 100mph; he screams "let me at 'em! let me at 'em!", and it sounds just like Scrappy.

Daws Butler? I guess he would have sounded like Yahooey, Elroy or Curly Joe on the Scooby appearances.

Howard Morris? He probably would have sounded like Jughead or Atom Ant!
Interesting info on why he was not at HB for so long. This must have happened '65-66, for in the '66 season, he suddenly disappears from some of the characters (but remained for others), and then did not return until 13 Ghosts.

Dick Beals ("I wanna be a roadrunner; zip dang!", and the kid on Frankenstein Jr. and a few who appear on Atom Ant/Winnie Witch, etc.)

Then we have Winchell. His Scrappy would have probably sounded something like Dick Dastardly. That's the only thing I can think of, as that is his high pitched voice.

Marilynn Schreffler was best known as Olive Oyl on the HB series. She was also probably all of the female voices on the Scooby-Scrappy-Shaggy shorts. (the swamp witch, the woman on the plane who sees Shaggy outside on the wing and says "there's a man out there!", etc). So it's hard to picture what her Scrappy would have been like. I'm trying to figure if she ever did male voices. The examples of her I have just given sound too female to have pulled it off as Scrappy.

EDIT: Now I know that Schreffler did do some male voices; the bad little kid on Yogi's First Christmas being the one I remember most right now. So that's what Scrappy would have sounded like by her. (Very similar to Flim Flam).

I don't know who this Marshall Efron is. He's had lesser (often one-shot) supporting roles on shows like Kwicky Koala, The Smurfs (Sloppy, which is apprently a rare character), Transformers, Kidd Video, Pink Panther & Sons, the Biskitts, Growing Pains, and get this, the "It's A Wonderful Scoob" episode of 13 Ghosts. (Imdb doesn't say who)

Man, did they ever consider running over to Filmation and getting Lou Scheimer to do it? :lol: (he already was doing most voices at his own studio at one point; with the Tom & Jerry/Droopy series apparently consisting only of him and Welker.
Then, Scrappy would have sounded like Bat Mite!)

And what about other wellknown voices not mentioned (imagine!), such as someone like Joe Besser? (Babu) Or Chuck McCann (Blinky on PacMan, which is a bit similar, but even higher pitched) John Stephenson (high pitched voice: Mano Tiki witchdoctor), Arnold Stang (Catfish on Mr Jaws) had a similar type of voice. Or Casey Kasem? (then he would have sounded like a young Shaggy)

While very interesting; it's a good thing many of these voices were passed over, and Messick ultimately chosen after Weinrib's first season, because these other voices would have sounded so much more annoying!

[Eric B]

The latest chapter is indeed fascinating.

I always said that Scrappy never truly bothered me in the first season he appeared in. It was only when they started doing random shorts that he became utterly intolerable and in the last few eps of the 80's series and 13 Ghosts that he became somewhat mellowed out again.

It's a shame that early/late Scrappy doesn't get due credit. At that part he's actually a tolerable little creature. :) Its the middle part of Scrappy's career - where he's the most annoying and where the show itself really takes a nosedive - that gets him all the (well deserved) hatred.

I'm almost hoping that if they do release the Scrappy years on DVD they skip over the part with the Puppy Hour shorts and just do the first season, the 80's series, and 13 Ghosts. I'd buy that before I'd ever think of touching the rest of that nonsense. =\
That's funny, because it seems the first season, both voice and personality-wise, is what colored people's perception of Scrappy, and led to their hatred of him. People didn't realize they had improved him, and never gave it another chance.
In the first season (especially the Blue Scarab episode), he was so naïve, and had to be rescued from actually getting hurt. In the short episodes, he was almost invincible, and could really do what he threatened to the bad guys (in one way or another).
Afterwards, of course, he mellowed out to the point that they could have just brought back Freddy in his place.
So I think the Shaggy-Scooby-Scrappy only episodes are the best for him. The scooby series at that point was all about the chase anyway, so dropping the mystery format for a while (which was picked up in so many other shows by that time), you really did not miss much.

[sdp]

As a kid I liked scrappy. I was surprised to see all the scrappy hate on the internet though by that time I didn't care about scrappy. But now I really think its undeserving, I'd love to see scrappy be a part of Scooby again, maybe not full time but the character shouldn't die.

[Eric B]

I added some of the new info to the Wikipedia article, and at the bottom, it lists that on Harvey Birdman not only was there the Shaggy Busted episode where Avenger snatches Scrappy at the end, but now on several other episodes they have him carrying a dead Scrappy around. And then there's some show on Comedy Central with a new episode that just came out showing him being tortured.

I say ENOUGH ALREADY!
Even though people on this board can now have a discussion on Scrappy without everyone trashing him, and some people saying they liked him or at least being sensible about him, and even Jumptheshark.com seemd to be cooling down last time I checked; it seems the rampant hatred that shaped the first Scooby Doo live action movie is still prevalent among TV writers.
What someone should do is show what would really happen in Harvey Birdman's courtroom, and that is that after Avenger grabs him, you hear "Puppy Power" offscreen, and suddenly see the vultur -er- eagle crashing down to the floor!

[hobbyfan]

I don't know who this Marshall Efron is. He's had lesser (often one-shot) supporting roles on shows like Kwicky Koala, The Smurfs (Sloppy, which is apprently a rare character), Transformers, Kidd Video, Pink Panther & Sons, the Biskitts, Growing Pains, and get this, the "It's A Wonderful Scoob" episode of 13 Ghosts. (Imdb doesn't say who)

Mr. Efron had this wonderful little Sunday School show on CBS back in the early 80's that my local affiliate actually bothered to run toward the end of the series. The title escapes me at the moment, but I did catch an ep or two. Very enlightening. He took on the cartoon work after his CBS gig ended, and began the next phase of his career.

[Steve Carras]

Mr. Efron had this wonderful little Sunday School show on CBS back in the early 80's that my local affiliate actually bothered to run toward the end of the series. The title escapes me at the moment, but I did catch an ep or two. Very enlightening. He took on the cartoon work after his CBS gig ended, and began the next phase of his career.

When hearing about ZAC (emphasis intended) Efron (Hairspray, High School Musical) these days, I often wonder, if there's a family connection.

BTW FYI Marhsall Efron was a voice in the 2005 blockbuster CGI movie Robots (with ZAC's fellow Hairspray costar AManda Bynes and everybody's favorite funnyman Robin Williams) with another VERY older school voice, Lucille Bliss, who was before Smurfee not only Cinderella's sister Anastasia but most importanly Jay Ward, Alex Anderson and Jerry Fairbanks's co-production that set television, and, especially, its animation on fire, the original 1948-1950 version of "Crusader Rabbit" as another character. (2005).

[Eric B]

FINALLY, after 14 months, the fifth part comes out: http://www.newsfromme.com/archives/2008_12_11.html#016337
It's mostly a rant about Standards and Procedures, but it seems Scrappy was actually toned down a bit, and the pilot Scarab episode edited. That's probably why Scrappy is so naive that episode in particular, and that first season in general. In making him less "scrappy", they actually made him more annoying, in my opinion; seemingly justifying the hatred that developed from just that first season, and not giving him another chance in the following seasons. One of the biggest complaints about him was that these little new characters were too mushy. But Scrappy was the least like that when perfected, but in this first season, he is a little bit more like that, and generally cannot make good on his tough talk. (Like almost getting splatted by the statue in the first episode until someone snatches him away). However, it is the following two seasons, where he was the most scrappy, and that's what made him funny, and attracted me to him (when those seasons were rebroadcast years later as the "Scary Scooby Funnies" and I thought they were new). This sounds like the way Evanier originally wrote him in the Scarab episode, and they toned down. I wonder how he was able to pull it off in the second and third season (and then he softens down again in the fourth season and afterward).

Hopefully this will be covered in the next installment, which hs says might be the last, covering him writing another episode, the final voice change, Scrappy saving Scooby's ratings, and finally, the world being "blanketed with lying anti-Scrappy propaganda"! http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/images/smiliesimport/yay.gif
He promises this in "a week or two". Let's hope it doesn't become a week or fifty-two.

[Mister Intensity]

I loved the last paragraph because he summed up the true history of Scrappy-Doo and not the revisionist version that came into vogue in the last 20 years.

[Eric B]

Hopefully, in this next one, he will reveal just where the revisionist history came from, and how it took shape (as I had already asked him in an e-mail a few months ago after he promised this fifth part again).
All I know is that when I first arrived on the Internet 11 years ago, it was already flooded with anti-Scrappy rhetoric. Within five years, it would spread to the studio.
I don't know what was going on before '97 leading up to this, because the only info you had was what was playing on CN. There were no new productions at all for the bulk of the decade, (so it's not like Scrappy was deliberately avoided during that time, and of course he couldn't be in the previous series which was before he was born), but Scooby's popularity was really increasing on the network, leading up to the great revival, and they did give the Scrappy years their due air time.

[Racattack!Force]

What was the revisionist history of Scrappy-Doo, exactly?

[speedy fast]

That was a good series of blog posts. I am so glad that I wasn't aware of them when teh first one was posted, so I got to see the first five posts in a row. I hope he means it when he says that there'll be one more post, and that it'll come out within the next few weeks.

[Mister Intensity]

What was the revisionist history of Scrappy-Doo, exactly?

That Scrappy-Doo killed the show when in reality his addition made the show last an additional six seasons.

[greg!]

I always hated Scrappy. I also hated all the Scrappy rip-offs: Baby Plas, Baby Fangs, Baby Flintstones, Baby Looney Toons, Baby Scooby Gang, Baby Yogi Gang........It got to be where if ratings started to dip just whip out an irritating baby & the show is saved. Then they did away with the adults altogether. Shows began to be geared more & more to toddlers. Gone was the sophistocated humor--at least until Animaniacs came along.

[Eric B]

Baby Plas and Fang Puss began the same year as Scrappy, so it was not that Scrappy started the trend, but he was simply apart of it. Godzookey from the previous season was probably the real starter of the trend of younger sidekicks of the same species. Perhaps Gleek from yet another season before that also was a trend setter, with annoying little characters in general, in action shows. (at least Wonder Dog was more mature and Scooby-like). I thought they all were silly, when they first aired. But I later saw Scrappy as the least disruptive out of them all. Baby Plas just ruined Plastic Man for me. A total distraction for a supe hero cartoon. And Fang Puss was just totally ridiculous. And those series were only in their second season, so it's not like they needed to change things like the ten year old Scooby. So that's why I could never understand why Scrappy got all the hostility for this trend.
Don't forget, this had already happened once before, in the Golden Age of cartoons, when Donald Duck's annoying nephews sparked off imitations from all other studios, such as Popeye, Woody Woodpecker following suit; and even Tom/Jerry and Bugs Bunny, occasionally being tested with young sidekicks.

(the babyfication of the following decade was basically a new trend, and not the same as the previous one; though Pink Panther & Sons and Popeye & Son were sort of the bridge between the two trends).

[Still HowardFein]

Baby Plas and Fang Puss began the same year as Scrappy

Not quite, but close. Fang Puss and Scrappy were 'born' in 1979; Baby Plas in 1980.

[Rick Jones]

I always liked Scrappy and thought he was pretty funny as a kid. I had no idea other people hated him until I saw the first live-action movie; it was pretty clear whoever made that was far from a fan.

[80's guy]

Remember watching Scooby-Doo and Scrappy-doo. I don't understand people hate him ? Sure he could be annoying sometimes, but I see him at the opposite of Scooby-Doo, Scooby a afraid, Scrappy brave.

[hobbyfan]

Baby Plas and Fang Puss began the same year as Scrappy, so it was not that Scrappy started the trend, but he was simply apart of it. Godzookey from the previous season was probably the real starter of the trend of younger sidekicks of the same species. Perhaps Gleek from yet another season before that also was a trend setter, with annoying little characters in general, in action shows. (at least Wonder Dog was more mature and Scooby-like). I thought they all were silly, when they first aired. But I later saw Scrappy as the least disruptive out of them all. Baby Plas just ruined Plastic Man for me. A total distraction for a supe hero cartoon. And Fang Puss was just totally ridiculous. And those series were only in their second season, so it's not like they needed to change things like the ten year old Scooby. So that's why I could never understand why Scrappy got all the hostility for this trend.
Don't forget, this had already happened once before, in the Golden Age of cartoons, when Donald Duck's annoying nephews sparked off imitations from all other studios, such as Popeye, Woody Woodpecker following suit; and even Tom/Jerry and Bugs Bunny, occasionally being tested with young sidekicks.

(the babyfication of the following decade was basically a new trend, and not the same as the previous one; though Pink Panther & Sons and Popeye & Son were sort of the bridge between the two trends).

Actually, Baby Plas came along a year later (1980), after Plastic Man married Penny off-screen.

I've always looked at Scrappy as being the total antithesis of his Uncle Scooby. Pro-active, confrontational, and most of all, brave. He had the makeup of a good detective, unlike Scooby. Hardcore Scoobaholics resented this, which might explain all the haterizing of Scrappy in the 12 years since 13 Ghosts was cancelled.

[Eric B]

With almost no internet for years to come after Scrappy, I wonder how it was known that Scooby fans "resented" in the first place. Where did that information come from? That sounds basically like the same claim that he killed the show, and drove all the fans away, which would have happened if they had resented him so much. (And then, that the reversion to a younger version of the show, as well as the near decade of inactivity afterward were also done specifically to "write him off").
It seems like even that claim might be a retrospective internet age projection back into the past. That's why this next installment of Evanier will hopefully be very good. He might shed light on how all this hatred, and the resulting "revision" developed.

[Manhunter]

My Scrappy hate is actually lessened after reading that.

[Zen Man]

The blogs but everything in perspective. Though I never hated Scrappy, he was never a favorite of mine but I can appreciate what he bought to the Scooby franchise.

[PeppeRaskell1]

Mr. Efron had this wonderful little Sunday School show on CBS back in the early 80's that my local affiliate actually bothered to run toward the end of the series. The title escapes me at the moment, but I did catch an ep or two. Very enlightening. He took on the cartoon work after his CBS gig ended, and began the next phase of his career.

Marshall Efron's Illustrated, Simplified and Painless Sunday School. Most of the title clicked in my head, but I had to look up his filmography on Imdb for the rest of it.

[hobbyfan]

Marshall Efron's Illustrated, Simplified and Painless Sunday School. Most of the title clicked in my head, but I had to look up his filmography on Imdb for the rest of it.

Thank you.

[Racattack!Force]

Did the last part come out yet? :sweat:

[TwoToneDearly]

This is an interesting read, lets hope the next part comes out soon

[Kouji Tamino]

Speaking of which, am I the only one who is happy that Scrappy is "Boomeroyalty" this month on Boomerang? After years of Cartoon Network hopping on the "Scrappy Sucks" bandwagon, it's pretty cool to see them give him a little recognition for once.

[Racattack!Force]

Speaking of which, am I the only one who is happy that Scrappy is "Boomeroyalty" this month on Boomerang? After years of Cartoon Network hopping on the "Scrappy Sucks" bandwagon, it's pretty cool to see them give him a little recognition for once.He's Boomeroyatly once almost every year.

[Kouji Tamino]

He's Boomeroyatly once almost every year.
Ah, I see. I didn't watch Boomerang very much until recently, so I wasn't even aware of Boomeroyalty until about last year.

[Steve Carras]

I always hated Scrappy. I also hated all the Scrappy rip-offs: Baby Plas, Baby Fangs, Baby Flintstones, Baby Looney Toons, Baby Scooby Gang, Baby Yogi Gang........It got to be where if ratings started to dip just whip out an irritating baby & the show is saved. Then they did away with the adults altogether. Shows began to be geared more & more to toddlers. Gone was the sophistocated humor--at least until Animaniacs came along.

Steve Worth and John Kricfalusi, both of Spumco and many many other animation insiders will disagree with you on Animaniacs being a good show.:cool:

[Eric B]

OK; it's finally up; the final installment of this series!

http://www.newsfromme.com/archives/2009_09_18.html#017745
or
http://www.povonline.com/scrappydays/scrappy06.htm

Seems to have been possibly prompted by my comment in the current Scrappy poll where I mentioned how we were still waiting for this. Being that Mark is actually a member of this board now, I just want to say; sorry if you felt pushed; just commenting. Checking the blog from time to time; I see how you must be very busy, with all those topics you comment on, and just how immersed in the industry (everything from cartoons to comic conventions, and all the other Hollywood stuff and memoirs; and then politics, the stray cats in the back yard, etc).

Anyway, we see that Mark also wrote the Demon of the Dugout episode, and that CN often dowplayed this season because the animation was supposedly poorer, and they figured when people got tired of the other episodes over and over, people would be more tolerant of the poorer ones. Interesting. How many of us here ever realized that? With all the complaints on CN or Boomerang's rotation we often get here, this sheds some light on why they air stuff when they do.

Mark points out that there was not much difference between this season and previous ones as far as animation, and I didn't see them as much different either. (I think the season that really sticks out is the second Scooby Doo movies ('73), which was produced at the Australian studio anyway. And then later stuff, such as Pup and Get a Clue, which were modern stylisms anyway).

Lennie Weinrib left because of a dispute over the voice director, and wanting more money. So then Messick picked the job back up. Mark himself was even asked to be the voice director for the show instead; but Weinrib still wanted more money, and they couldn't even deduct it from the other director for the reduced work he would be doing.

Weinrib had a lot of problems in his life, and he soon quit the business and moved to Chile. (Trying to think of how many other characters he did after Scrappy. He did seem to disappear after that. I know he did do that character in the Astro & the Space Mutts cartoon which was around the same time as the first Messick Scrappy seasons).

As for the "lying propaganda" about Scrappy, he wasn't explaining where it came from, as I assumed. (He isn't sure himself, but notes as I did, that it seemed to come from a loud minority; many of whom weren't so crazy about Scooby anyway. You can clearly see a lot of this in the old jumptheshark.com archives! I always said much of that junk could have been just one or two posters making multiple comments).
So the article just mentioned how he was alerted to it by Weinrib, who found that internet searches on his name led to all the Scrappy-hating sites and board posts.
That's kind of sad, as he had ended his career under the conditions he did, and then spent his last years seeing that stuff, and apparently was taking it to heart.:(

Thankfully, as we have been noting on the ongoing poll discussion; the sentiments have truly changed! They were even changing three years ago (the year Weinrib died), in another poll. Hope he at least began to see that in his final web surfs.

Also, we should remember, Mark didn't actually create the character. (trying to remember how much I may have been guilty of saying "creator") I think developed is more accurate, though.

[Still HowardFein]

Weinrib had a lot of problems in his life, and he soon quit the business and moved to Chile. (Trying to think of how many other characters he did after Scrappy. He did seem to disappear after that. I know he did do that character in the Astro & the Space Mutts cartoon which was around the same time as the first Messick Scrappy seasons).

Actually, Mr. Weinrib was still active performing cartoon voices throughout the eighties and into the nineties, if the list of his credits on the Internet Movie Database is any indication. Obviously, he didn't have the same presence as he did during the seventies when he was a staple on many H-B and Kroft productions.

In addition to Space Mutt Dipper (whose small-but-feisty personality was clearly an echo of Scrappy), Weinrib played recurring Smurf nemesis Big Mouth; auxiliary cops Fred and Barney's long-suffering supervisor in the Bedrock Cops segments of the 1980-81 FLINTSTONE COMEDY SHOW; and most notably, the original voice of young Freddie Flintstone. Ironically, as with Scrappy, Weinrib was replaced in the role by durable child voice actor Scott Menville for FLINTSTONE KIDS' second half-season of original episodes. (IMO, Weinrib did a very good job 'channeling' Alan Reed as a 'tween version of his most famous character.)

And most notoriously, Weinrib played Prince Abba-Dabba, son of Yosemite Sam(!) in the 1981 WB theatrical compilation BUGS BUNNY'S 1001 RABBIT TALES. His standard high-pitched 'Scrappy' voice was apparently sped up further to rather bizarre effect- as if hearing a Weinrib-voiced character interacting with :bugs1: wasn't strange enough.

[Eric B]

most notably, the original voice of young Freddie Flintstone. Ironically, as with Scrappy, Weinrib was replaced in the role by durable child voice actor Scott Menville for FLINTSTONE KIDS' second half-season of original episodes. Oh wow; how could I forget. :o
I wonder if it was the same kind of reason why he left that position. (IMO, Weinrib did a very good job 'channeling' Alan Reed as a 'tween version of his most famous character.)
He sounded more like Corden to me. Very throaty. And it would make sense, since Corden had become the universal Fred voice for a decade, that his voice would be imitated (Jus tlike the current voice of the cereal commercials also tries to sound like Corder, though thankfully, in new cartoon productions, Jeff Bergman has mastered a very good imitation of Reed).
Menville no longer sounded like Corden, but it was a much better vioce for a young kid.