Saw, Hostel, Turistas... are these movies giving the REAL psychos ideas?

[Squall]

Remember when a "horror movie" was almost as much an absurd comedy as it was a slasher flick? When the main plot consisted of some supernatural being killing people in ridiculous ways (punching someone's head off, turning someone into a bug and squashing them, etc.) until someone destroyed said being in an equally ridiculous way? Friday The 13th, A Nightmare on Elm Street, Halloween... movies like that.

Now, I've never been a big fan of horror movies, but this new generation of horror movies REALLY worries me. Gone are the ghosts and goblins that come back from the dead; instead, now we have something much more realistic, much more diabolical -- characters who are otherwise normal people, doing horrific things to other people. Saw, Hostel, Turistas Go Home... movies like that.

Why do these new movies bother me so much? For one, because the setting and what happens to the victims, although still absurd in its own ways, is at least something that a person in the real world could, theoretically, do to someone else in the real world. Another thing that bothers me about these movies is over the top torture -- and the fact that some viewers seem to get their kicks off it, if you know what I mean.

Now, don't get me wrong -- I'm not advocating removing these movies from store shelves or censoring them, just because they're not my cup of tea (I'm very much a Constitutionalist)... But I do wonder: What's the appeal of these movies? And why don't people worry that these movies might give all the REAL psychos out there, in the real world, ideas they'd never thought of before?

[William C. Maune]

And why don't people worry that these movies might give all the REAL psychos out there, in the real world, ideas they'd never thought of before?

While there definitely seem to be more movies like this these days, movies of this type, such as The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, have been around for years without real psychos playing copycat.

[Michael24]

I tend to agree with you on the question of "what is the appeal of these kind of movies?" I haven't seen any of the Saw movies, but I did watch Hostel at a friend's house and, while it was technically well-made, I just didn't like it. Two hours of watching helpless people being sadistically tortured and murdered is just not my idea of entertainment. (Though I did get a kick out of Hostel's climactic revenge spree.) Like you, I miss the horror movies of the '80s, where they were just as much camp as they were slasher. I watch the Jason or even the Freddy movies nowadays and think to myself, "Why can't horror be this fun again?" Sure, it was silly, but it was just fun.

Horror goes through cycles. Scream seemed to bring back the slasher genre for awhile, then we had a return to suspense/psychological horror, like The Sixth Sense (even though I didn't care for it, good example), and now we're into the down and gritty "real world" horror, reminiscent of '70s flicks like Last House on the Left and The Texas Chainsaw Massacre. I love horror, but the genre has just really bored me in recent years. Personally, I keep hoping something will resurrect the 80s-esque slasher genre, though I'd bet filmmakers may think the world is now too mature for such campy romps. :(

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go watch Sleepaway Camp II. :D

[Squall]

I tend to agree with you on the question of "what is the appeal of these kind of movies?" I haven't seen any of the Saw movies, but I did watch Hostel at a friend's house and, while it was technically well-made, I just didn't like it. Two hours of watching helpless people being sadistically tortured and murdered is just not my idea of entertainment...

You the nail on the head! And you're better with words than I am, too. :sweat:

I haven't seen the Saw movies either, but let me tell you this... my brother loves these types of movies; he considers the Friday The 13ths and Nightmare on Elm Streets comedies, and isn't even fazed by more gory movies (Event Horizon is a random example). But... Hostel bothered him, he couldn't stomach Saw II, and couldn't even finish Saw III. :eek:

It's the "watching helpless people being sadistically tortured and murdered" part that bothers me. I can laugh at the absurdity of Freddy Krueger turning a teenage girl into a roach, then squashing her. But I can't watch a supposedly real person sadistically torture and murder another supposedly real person without... getting depressed. Because unlike the fantasy horror movies, these types of horrors can, have, and still today happen to people in the real world. That, and the "it's realistic enough that it COULD happen to you" angle...

[Martianinvader]

Personally, I keep hoping something will resurrect the 80s-esque slasher genre, though I'd bet filmmakers may think the world is now too mature for such campy romps. :(

I didn't think shows where people did nothing but dance would come back either. The moral is, never say never.

[Hanshotfirst113]

What does it say about our culture that we'll go to see a movie about people being tortured and pay for it if it has Quentin Tarantino's name attached to it?

[Frank Castle]

Lion's Gate Films can't make these things forever no matter how much they think they can. In fact, LGF is pretty much the only studio that is making these horror movies, so it's obvious that this is not a plague that is infesting every Hollywood studio.

[Lutochris]

Well before you lump Saw in with crap like Hostel, I have to say that the Saw movies were actually pretty damn good, from a narrative perspective as well as a horror/gore perspective. Yes, they're pretty brutal, but that's the idea - you don't want people to keep making Friday the 13th sequels, do you? But aside from the gore, Saw actually has a decent story and overall running theme to it that connects all 3 movies. At the end of the 3rd movie everything is tied up pretty nicely. And it actually does a good job of dealing with themes like obsessive hate and appreciating life.

That being said, prior to Saw I don't think I've really liked a horror movie since Hellraiser 2 in 1988.

[Discloner]

It within human nature to want to look at terrifying things. You may see a horrific car accident on your way home from work - and try as you might you have to at least peak at the carnage to appease your curiosity.

Likewise, quite a number of us love to be scared. It's exhilarating, almost like some bizarre rush. The same reason people like pay over-priced admission to the yearly 'Factory of Terror'. So in a way both of these desires act together when it comes to a number of the movies in question here. I think the absurd slasher flicks of the past have become rather cliché for the mainstream. We've been there, we've seen it, it simply doesn't scare us anymore. It might be a commentary on our society, it might not be - but in order to make a movie now-a-days that genuinely scares people you kind of have to dip into new and seemingly "too-far" or "too-real" territory.

People can watch Freddy play puppet master with some kid's veins today and laugh - because they know its an impossible thing to happen. Its not scary because we've become so akin to such fantasy elements we can merely shrug them off as fiction. When you dabble into a more realistic thing like torture - its not such an easy thing to shrug off, and that's where the frightening aspect of it lies.

Some people just like that moment of fear. I know I do...a good scary movie or creepy haunted house is always a good time for me. I have no rhyme or reason as to why; maybe I'm slightly twisted, maybe I'm not, but to be genuinely creeped out...I don't know, it kind of makes you feel alive.

[Antiyonder]

It's the "watching helpless people being sadistically tortured and murdered" part that bothers me. I can laugh at the absurdity of Freddy Krueger turning a teenage girl into a roach, then squashing her. But I can't watch a supposedly real person sadistically torture and murder another supposedly real person without... getting depressed. Because unlike the fantasy horror movies, these types of horrors can, have, and still today happen to people in the real world. That, and the "it's realistic enough that it COULD happen to you" angle...

There was a Garfield strip made during Halloween that prove you can have true horror without gore. It deals with something scarier than Dracul, Freddy, Jason, or the old pedophile rapist across the street. Loneliness. If you haven't read it PM me and I'll provide some links.

[Greg1]

Oh, not that Garfield thing again.

I don't like torture as much as the next person, but these movies seem to be striking a nerve and creeping people out. And I have to ask, isn't that the point of horror movies from the beginning? Sure, we see old monster movies and laugh because they're goofy by todays standards, but every one of those film makers didn't set out to make a comedy, they set out to make a movie to creep you out (and way back then, it worked).

So, it sounds like these films are actually working.

[DarthGonzo]

Oh, not that Garfield thing again.


I was thinking the same thing. :p

[Sandoz]

While I am not particularly a fan of the "torture porn" genre (give me Dario Argento any day) I do appreciate the fact that filmmakers are putting the "scary" back in scary movies. If I'm in the mood for an actual horror flick, I don't want to snicker at Freddy Kruegger's silly and fake elongated arms. I want to watch something that will genuinelly unnerve me.

And I don't put much stock in that old "violent movies will only breed violent people" reasoning. If anyone starts chaining up mutilated frat boys in their basement because they saw it in Hostel, they already had serious problems.

[Squall]

While I am not particularly a fan of the "torture porn" genre (give me Dario Argento any day) I do appreciate the fact that filmmakers are putting the "scary" back in scary movies. If I'm in the mood for an actual horror flick, I don't want to snicker at Freddy Kruegger's silly and fake elongated arms. I want to watch something that will genuinelly unnerve me.

You make a good point. The Friday The 13th and Nightmare on Elm Street -type movies are more like absurd dark comedies to me than something that actually scares me. Movies like Saw, Hostel, and Turistas Go Home, though... those movies actually scared me. Because, unlike the fantasy movies, with their fantasy deaths, what happens to the victims in these torture movies bothers me because, while improbable, the idea that it could happen to me or someone I love (or any innocent person!) is not impossible.

And I don't put much stock in that old "violent movies will only breed violent people" reasoning. If anyone starts chaining up mutilated frat boys in their basement because they saw it in Hostel, they already had serious problems.

Oh, I agree with you 100% -- normal people can watch these movies and walk away from them just like any other movie they see, video game they play, or book they read. It's the people who already have serious issues and watch these movies that I'm worried about!

By the way, I've seen the term "torture porn" in a magazine or newspaper or two before... What a creepy combination. But I'm sure there are a few people out there who view these movies as one and the same. (And I'm not talking about the "Ooh, spank me! Whips and chains!" crowd either... that stuff is just innocent fun compared to this stuff!)

[TheMecca]

There was a Garfield strip made during Halloween that prove you can have true horror without gore. It deals with something scarier than Dracul, Freddy, Jason, or the old pedophile rapist across the street. Loneliness. If you haven't read it PM me and I'll provide some links.
Yeah I read those strips and it scared me much, much, much more than anything else.
And this was Garfield.

[Scirel]

Yeah I read those strips and it scared me much, much, much more than anything else.
And this was Garfield.


This was an actual garfield strip, printed in the newspaper like normal? O.o;;

This is really wierd, I have to see this now. can someone post a link?

[Squall]

This is really wierd, I have to see this now. can someone post a link?

Just go to the official Garfield website, and look up the comic strips from October 23-28, 1989. BTW, I didn't think they were scary... just a little creepy. Heh.

http://www.garfield.com/comics/comics_archives_strip.html?1989-ga891023

[Chris Wood]

Is torturing obnoxious tourists necessarily a bad idea?

[Timmay]

I'm just tired of these movies, they don't really bother me at all, I'm just sick of them.

On Halloween day I watched ten hours worth of horror movies including Hostel and Saw I/II, never bothered me. Yeah it's kind of freaky when people get their eyeballs cut off and white stuff oozes out, but after the initial reaction, I don't get scared. When I was a kid, I'd get scared senseless from some of the old horror movies, for some reason being scared of things that I knew would never happen and were completely supernatural. The gore movies of today would probably disgust me if I hadn't already been completely desensitized.

[Conekiller]

I'm more concerned with people watching CSI type shows and having a better idea of how to cover their tracks.

[Zyzzybalubah]

I can see what you mean by them being more realistic and more terrifyingly sick. Unlike the Nightmare on Elm Street movies where Freddy has turned someone into a meatball and put it on a pizza to eat on it, the things in the movie you mentioned could be emulated in real life (well in some capacity, the murders could, maybe not necessarily the whole jigsaw set-up.) While I highly don't encourage any of that happening, I think this medium works better for horror movies today because IMO it gives a more terrifying feeling because these things could really happen in comparison to werewolves popping up in the middle of the street. I have enjoyed Saw 1 and 2 and Hostel (haven't seen Turistas, but I think I will pass on it for now), because of the events and it makes me hope for the victims, survivors, etc. to give those bad guys what they got coming to them.

[Michael24]

Just go to the official Garfield website, and look up the comic strips from October 23-28, 1989. BTW, I didn't think they were scary... just a little creepy. Heh.

http://www.garfield.com/comics/comics_archives_strip.html?1989-ga891023

Wow! What a bizzare storyline for Garfield. That was just... weird.