CN Summer Talkback: The Life & Times of Juniper Lee [6/15/06]

[Freedom Fighter]

http://fridays.toonzone.net/talkbacks/premiere.gifhttp://fridays.toonzone.net/talkbacks/juniperlee.gif
In a world full of monsters and demons...She's the Te Xuan Ze and her job's to protect the city of Orchid Bay from magical creatures who wish to do it harm. These are The Life & Times of Juniper Lee, and boy, she hates it when monsters ruin her social life. Even in the summer, the girl just can't get a break...

Episode #24: Dog Show Afternoon
June 15, 2006 at 7 pm
June's ready to go to California, but she risks missing her plane when she goes to stop a Bombat accidentally let loose by the elves!
Encores Friday at 9:30 pmAs part of the Cartoon Network Summer, the network will premiere a new episode of one of their originals every weeknight at 7 pm, all summer long! Go to the CN website for a look at what shows will be featured this week! My Gym Partner is a Monkey is new on Monday!

[Bubblegum Girl]

Not a bad episode. I really like the opening and the ending with those hippie leperchauns. It's interesting to find out the June wants to be an Astronaut just like Danny Fenton. ;) But what really shocked me the most is that June can't ever leave Orchid Bay! Man, that is really unfair for her. At least Ah-Ma is trying to find a way to break the so called family "curse".

[One Radical Dude]

I consider this episode to be the best of the season. There were some really amusing moments (Monroe and Ray Ray at the dog show, and why am I not surprised Ray Ray eats dog food?), and a very sad moment for Juniper -- the Te Xuan Ze can never leave Orchid Bay. Poor June (she cried a bit, which I haven't seen her do before). Fortunately, Ah-Mah/Jasmine is searching for a way for her granddaughter to leave Orchid Bay. I gave this one an A.

[USSManhattan]

Ignoring my usual (and present here) criticisms, I think the big thing is the revelation about June being bound to her town. It felt kind of... forced. Suddenly, June wants to be an astronaut and has literally run into a glass wall about it. I'd have liked it if there was some more build up to her career choice, so it wasn't so sudden and perfectly revealed like this.

The scene at the end, regardless, was one of the better ones JL's done in a long time. The VA was dead on, and it definitely felt more painful that "Witch Ain't Dead." I'd like to see this idea revisited in the future, and hope it doesn't work against the show, since one thing I've noticed his how finite June's world already IS because of the TXZ before this happened.

As for the ep entire... 4. Not a bad effort all around, and I even chuckled a little bit.

[Kagetsu]

It's interesting to find out the June wants to be an Astronaut just like Danny Fenton. I noticed that seems to be a trend. Odd given the uslessness of todays manned space program to exploring the cosmos. eh, beats the food service or housekeeping industrys I suppose :shrug:

Big contrast, very funny show but in the end they made June cry. It answers a few thoughts I've had about why she never seemed to be concerned about evil elsewhere. Loved her facial expressions trying to deal with the bombat. :D Monroe stole the rest of this episode for himself. :D

[tucsoncoyote]

I just caught this ep of Juniper lee and I have to say this..

The Show's taken a major positive jump with this episode.

June Being an Astronaut? Good Idea.. but Being the Te Xuan Ze does have it's drawbacks... and this is one of the sadder ones.. but I think like Ahma said, she's trying to find some sort of loophole so that June can experience a normal life..

Now the hippie Leprechauns were funny (Dude, what would happen....) and in fact the funniest lines of all places came from Monroe.. (hence the title..)

This Ep had it all, Comedy, Drama, Humor, and yes even a little disappointment. (After all this series could go on a lot longer (I mean sooner or later there will be some way I feel Juniper will be able to get out of Orchid bay.. but it may have a severe price to pay..

As for those Hippie Leprechauns? Time to give them a "Dryad Wedgie!"

all in all an excellent ep and it seems that Juniper is developing rather nicely as a show..

This one gets high marks from me.. 5 out of 5...

:coyote:

[RonDrakenfan17]

No, No, No, No!!!! Why did they have to take that from Danny Phantom and put in this show? That ticks me off, I wonder if the creator watches Danny Phantom and adds things from Danny Phantom into this show. Its annoying me now, at first I thought it was just an American Dragon Jake Long Rip off, now its leaning into the Danny Phantom teorrtory. I'm not liking the show now, this episode get's an F from me. Too much Danny Phantom/Jake Long stuff :shrug:

[USSManhattan]

:confused::confused::confused:

Um, calm down... I'm pretty sure it's a coincidence. Just because June says she wants to be an astronaut doesn't mean JL is ripping off DP.

Now, if Jody and Ophelia transformed into ghosts hybrids, or June became evil by having her abilities fused with a demon, or her parents threatened to tear magics apart molecule by molecule, THEN you can worry...

[veemonjosh]

No, No, No, No!!!! Why did they have to take that from Danny Phantom and put in this show? That ticks me off, I wonder if the creator watches Danny Phantom and adds things from Danny Phantom into this show. Its annoying me now, at first I thought it was just an American Dragon Jake Long Rip off, now its leaning into the Danny Phantom teorrtory. I'm not liking the show now, this episode get's an F from me. Too much Danny Phantom/Jake Long stuff :shrug:

...Explain to me how a show can rip-off an idea from an episode of another show that only premiered LAST WEEK?

And the way you sound, if I see two different little girls in real life (who have never met) that both want to be ballerinas, do I say to the second one "HOW DARE YOU COPY AFTER THE OTHER GIRL!!!! OMG!!! NERD!! BANANA PHONE!!!"?

Why can't two cartoon characters want to have the same dream-job?

[tucsoncoyote]

...Explain to me how a show can rip-off an idea from an episode of another show that only premiered LAST WEEK?

And the way you sound, if I see two different little girls in real life (who have never met) that both want to be ballerinas, do I say to the second one "HOW DARE YOU COPY AFTER THE OTHER GIRL!!!! OMG!!! NERD!! BANANA PHONE!!!"?

Why can't two cartoon characters want to have the same dream-job?

I agree here, veemonjosh, as if this were the case, then Wendy Wu, Homecoming Warrior (A live Action Series No Less) would be a blatant Rip off of Kim Possible.

Actually it's not a rip off in my eyes, but rather more of a story where June Learns the harsh reality of being the Te Xuan Ze. I mean think about this... Ahma (June's Grandmother) possibly as a pre-teen didn't like the same rules and in fact you could see that in her face when June spoke up and said that she would have to get old like her and then be able to travel the world. and how unfair it was.. I mean you could read Ahma's Expression like a book!

But then that issue at hand (the issue of June Not being able to Leave Orchid Bay, and Ahma's search for a "Loophole" so her Granddaughter can leave the city, gives the story a bit of a new life to this plot. (Imagine Ahma in an Upcoming ep....

Finding a way to finally break the curse so that June could leave the city without paying the penalty and then in the End, June realizes that she does need to be in Orchid Bay to keep the Human and Maigcal realms in balance , give this the feel that an upcoming ep might be a Juniper Lee Movie (can we say, June will realize her potential and in fact be able to understand her Te Xuan Ze powers?

I say this is why I think this little glitch worked so well. and heck why can't June have been the Te Xuan Ze (Think about this.. How far does that Barrier extend above the city?) There's one possibilty that no one has thought of until now.

but as for this? I'm gonna stick with what I know, and say this plot was an excellent idea.. it was designed for this little catch 22 to exist.. now to figure out how to get June out of this problem (also what if in a future ep:

Her family (Including her parents and Older brother (As Rei Rei already Knows June's true identity) find out she's the chosen one? What then?

Gives the show new meaning does it not? But that's my thought on that.. Other then that ? I'm gonna stick with my 5 out of 5 grade.. Nuff said...

:coyote:

[veemonjosh]

Stuff

Shame this is probably this show may only have two episodes left... :shrug:

[One Radical Dude]

Shame this is probably this show may only have two episodes left... :shrug:

Maybe, maybe not. I know the show had limited airings for a while before summer programming began, but that increased dramatically. If there is a third season, I'm predicting that it will begin in late August.

[JuniperLee]

I LOOOOOVERD this episode.
i was a breath away from bawling at the end.
But I agree with everyone else, monroe killed me.

BTW, I read in about 9 places, AND I emailed the creator Judd Winick, they're nearly done with the THIRD season and will be airing them right away. I think he meant that there won't be a break, one season will go right into the other. so, 13 more after these last two....

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :lol:

[tucsoncoyote]

I LOOOOOVERD this episode.
i was a breath away from bawling at the end.
But I agree with everyone else, monroe killed me.

BTW, I read in about 9 places, AND I emailed the creator Judd Winick, they're nearly done with the THIRD season and will be airing them right away. I think he meant that there won't be a break, one season will go right into the other. so, 13 more after these last two....

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :lol:

Well that's good to hear... But yeah Monroe Literally stole this episode of Juniper Lee, much Like Rufus Stole the show In Kim Possible's Rufus in Show. Of course it makes me wonder which character was more adamant about winning.. Rufus or Monroe.. I'll go with Monroe with this one.. First he didn't want to be in the show, then when he won his bracket (The Toy Group amazingly) it was like his attitude changed.. Almost like he found the whole dog show thing to be fun..(Compared to Rufus having to do this to keep a Low profile while Kim infiltrated Falsetto Jones' House)

but i digress here.. what really was the show stopper was that line (For Scotland!) from Monroe.. that is perhaps one of the best lines I've seen from a Char-pei and in fact Monroe literally stole the show. but in the end, the real tear-jerker is that June is still gonna have to realize that she's got a long road to hoe and it's not gonna be easy...(Though it would be interesting to see what happens when she finally hits Highschool and the real tough work begins...)

but yeah still a classic and rates high in my book (and I still laugh at the hippie leprechauns.. (Dude maybe we should just roll the rock back..)

But enough said, still 5 out of 5 in my book.. all the emotions rolled into one show usually makes it a classic. Nuff said..

:coyote:

[Tash]

but as for this? I'm gonna stick with what I know, and say this plot was an excellent idea.. it was designed for this little catch 22 to exist.. He does have a point. It IS a catch 22. If Ahma hadn't been there, the Bombat would have left the town. In order to fufill her duties, she would have had to have left the town to catch it, which she can't do because she's bound to her duty.

Whoever came up with the rule clearly never thought of that. >_>

[veemonjosh]

Maybe, maybe not. I know the show had limited airings for a while before summer programming began, but that increased dramatically. If there is a third season, I'm predicting that it will begin in late August.

I'm just saying that the Upfronts only mentioned the second season.

[DocForbin]

I have to admit this has to be the best ep ever. The drama at the end was just enough--not too sappy or sentimental, just one of those "life can be so unfair at times" kind of moments. Seeing June crying was a definite surprise, and Jasmine offering to go shopping with June helped to brighten things up. Also, this has to be Lara Jill Miller's finest hour voicing June at this critical moment in her life.

Man, what a whopper of a name Monroe's got. :eek: Now he'll have to add the name "Champion" to it as per AKC rules. If I ever saddled my cat Laptop with that kind of a name, he'd scratch my eyes out. :ack:

BTW, wasn't Miller a kid actress at one point? I seem to recall somewhere someone mentioning that.

[One Radical Dude]

I'm just saying that the Upfronts only mentioned the second season.

Still, we can't say that there won't be a third season (after all, one did mention that Season Three is nearly completed). I'm very certain that this isn't the last for Juniper Lee.

[tucsoncoyote]

Well it's interesting that I caught that catch 22 of Juniper not being able to leave orchid bay and I mentally went over the episode and thought about the fact that June would have run into that barrier once she was on the plane..(Think about this as I will relate a similar idea that was done in a TV Movie called The Girl, The Gold Watch and Everything. In that movie a guy had a pocket watch that could freeze time for up to 1 hour and the thought that came across was this.. If the person was in a vehicle and the watch was activated.. the person holding the watch would have been continuing to travel while the vehicle stopped and thus they would have been killed outright (as the Laws of Newton apply here..

Now in June's Case, having that "Invisible barrier" what would have happened if she had got on a plane (traveling at anywhere between 300 and 500 mph when the plane passed through the magical barrier..

Can we say "Street Pizza" (June would have literally hit the barrier of magic at 500 or so mph and her death would have ended the line of the Te Xuan Ze...

Pretty scary thought no?

and I guess that Jasmine's idea about finding that loophole is neccesary if she wants her grand daughter to experience life outside of Orchid bay..

but until the rules change, Juniper Lee, is in fact keep inside the city like a goldfish in a bowl.. and she can't even leave to go anywhere except inside the city.. pretty sad commentary until somehow this "Catch 22" can be resolved..(Maybe in a Final Movie perhaps?)

:coyote:

[Tash]

and I guess that Jasmine's idea about finding that loophole is neccesary if she wants her grand daughter to experience life outside of Orchid bay..

but until the rules change, Juniper Lee, is in fact keep inside the city like a goldfish in a bowl.. and she can't even leave to go anywhere except inside the city.. pretty sad commentary until somehow this "Catch 22" can be resolved.. I'm not seeing the catch-22, sorry. (I'm slow)

[TuxedoKamen]

Maybe, maybe not. I know the show had limited airings for a while before summer programming began, but that increased dramatically. If there is a third season, I'm predicting that it will begin in late August.

Actually, Winick confirmed, several months ago via an email conversation with a member of the Juniper Lee fan community over at LiveJournal that season three was in production. I'm definitely expecting an August/September release. I'm not gonna start really fretting about cancellation until we hit the 52 episode barrier. June's certainly a good enough to last that long, as long as CN doesn't chose a deadly timeslot for the show.

[TuxedoKamen]

Well it's interesting that I caught that catch 22 of Juniper not being able to leave orchid bay and I mentally went over the episode and thought about the fact that June would have run into that barrier once she was on the plane..(Think about this as I will relate a similar idea that was done in a TV Movie called The Girl, The Gold Watch and Everything. In that movie a guy had a pocket watch that could freeze time for up to 1 hour and the thought that came across was this.. If the person was in a vehicle and the watch was activated.. the person holding the watch would have been continuing to travel while the vehicle stopped and thus they would have been killed outright (as the Laws of Newton apply here..

Now in June's Case, having that "Invisible barrier" what would have happened if she had got on a plane (traveling at anywhere between 300 and 500 mph when the plane passed through the magical barrier..

Can we say "Street Pizza" (June would have literally hit the barrier of magic at 500 or so mph and her death would have ended the line of the Te Xuan Ze...

Pretty scary thought no?

and I guess that Jasmine's idea about finding that loophole is neccesary if she wants her grand daughter to experience life outside of Orchid bay..

but until the rules change, Juniper Lee, is in fact keep inside the city like a goldfish in a bowl.. and she can't even leave to go anywhere except inside the city.. pretty sad commentary until somehow this "Catch 22" can be resolved..(Maybe in a Final Movie perhaps?)

:coyote:

Oh, wow. We had the *exact* same thought. As soon as I heard about the plane (someone had spoiled me as to the barrier before I saw the show...didn't make the last scene any less awesome) I thought to myself, "if she got on the plane, that would be it. All over." We don't even know that the interaction between the plane and the active barrier wouldn't have been enough to tear the whole thing apart.

The same thing applies to cars. What if she's napping in the back seat for some reason and one of her parents decides to drive them all to a restruant or something just outside of town? If the speed of the impact didn't kill her (and it probably wouldn't) being crushed between the barrier and the carframe probably would.

Nice to know someone is as morbid as me, TC. Makes me feel a bit less wierd about thinking this way about what's marketed as a kid's show.

In terms of plot, it's brilliant. For June, though, this is about the worst possible thing that could happen. Humans aren't meant to be trapped like that. It goes against our very nature. And, as someone else pointed out, the older she gets, the harder this gets to hide, and the more complicated things become.

I'll try to pull my wits about me (really, this is one of those eps it's difficult to do an in-depth review on 'cause it's just awesome on so many levels and you're sort of blown away) I'll try to write up something more thorough, though I do wanna go ahead and address the astronaut thing. June's 11 years old. We, as older viewers, sometimes tend to forget that, I think--I try to remember it all the time, cause it really provides the frame for the more emotionally driven conflicts (like this episode). But really, she's just a kid. And who among us didn't want to be an astronaut when we were little? Who wouldn't have been giddy to the power of ten to go to space camp?

(That, too, is something that really hits hard with the final revelation. She's so giddy and happy about going, and she thought everything out to keep things in order, like a responsible Protector, and it all comes crashing down around her. It wouldn't have been quite as impactful without that, I think.)

[Kodra]

Wow. What an amazing episode. I agree with Tux, the astronaut thing is a device used to illustrate her age. She's still a kid. I think she mentioned wanting to be a lawyer at one point. Astronaut is just something that's a really cool idea to her. I don't watch DP, but I imagine both kids mentioning the desire to be astronauts is less atrocious when you stop and realize that most kids at some point have wanted to be astronauts.

The final scene was the most impressive scene I've ever witnessed. The range of emotions displayed was awesome, and the interaction between June and Ah Mah was perfect. This added a whole new dimension to the Te Xuan Ze. I'm really looking forward to the third season.

Kodra

[Freedom Fighter]

This was an okay episode until the last few minutes, where we got quite the bombshell dropped on all of us. Juniper can never leave Orchid Bay? This startling revelation and consequential breakdown of June gives us one of the best, if not THE best, moment of the series to date. After everything that's annoyed June about being the Te Xuan Ze, this definitely has to take the cake. If you thought she was angry before...

On an off-note, I found the dog show subplot mildly interesting, and slowly got into it as Monroe did the same. For Scotland indeed!

As I type this, I just realized... the family was planning a trip to California, but isn't Orchid Bay a fantasy deadringer for San Francisco? If that's still the case, then where is Orchid Bay really located then?

Another, somewhat more-pressing (though not completely major) caveat. The countdown clock. A plot device, and that's it. And they even threw it away for the third act, as it didn't show up at all. Half-done ideas aren't good.

7.5 out of 10 for "Dog Show Afternoon."

[TuxedoKamen]

This was an okay episode until the last few minutes, where we got quite the bombshell dropped on all of us. Juniper can never leave Orchid Bay? This startling revelation and consequential breakdown of June gives us one of the best, if not THE best, moment of the series to date. After everything that's annoyed June about being the Te Xuan Ze, this definitely has to take the cake. If you thought she was angry before...

On an off-note, I found the dog show subplot mildly interesting, and slowly got into it as Monroe did the same. For Scotland indeed!

As I type this, I just realized... the family was planning a trip to California, but isn't Orchid Bay a fantasy deadringer for San Francisco? If that's still the case, then where is Orchid Bay really located then?

Another, somewhat more-pressing (though not completely major) caveat. The countdown clock. A plot device, and that's it. And they even threw it away for the third act, as it didn't show up at all. Half-done ideas aren't good.

7.5 out of 10 for "Dog Show Afternoon."

I was wondering about where Orchid Bay is myself after this. It's obviously not in California, as previously thought. Still, I'm guessing it's somewhere on the Pacific coast. Perhaps Washington state?

As for the countdown clock, I'm told it was a reference to 24. I don't watch that show, so I'm not sure if it's normal for the clock to disappear. Granted, it's a bit sloppy, but given the end, I'm willing to cut them some slack. :)

[Kodra]

As I type this, I just realized... the family was planning a trip to California, but isn't Orchid Bay a fantasy deadringer for San Francisco? If that's still the case, then where is Orchid Bay really located then?

Another, somewhat more-pressing (though not completely major) caveat. The countdown clock. A plot device, and that's it. And they even threw it away for the third act, as it didn't show up at all. Half-done ideas aren't good.


The trip being to California threw me for a loop as well. I'm actually beginning to think they're east coast. The conversation with the Dragon tipped me off. He first mentioned that they were over Cleveland...or France. But then said "Oh shoot is that the Grand Canyon?" Making it seem like the Grand Canyon would be farther from his destination than Cleveland.

Probably too in depth of an analysis, but still.

The clock wasn't a plot device, it was a gag. It was a complete parody from the TV series 24. Heck, they even had the same sound effect as they use in 24. Personally, I thought it was hilarious. As for dropping it in the third act well, the third act wasn't supposed to be funny. It set the mood for the scene where June learns about her cage.

Kodra

[Freedom Fighter]

The clock wasn't a plot device, it was a gag. It was a complete parody from the TV series 24. Heck, they even had the same sound effect as they use in 24. Personally, I thought it was hilarious. As for dropping it in the third act well, the third act wasn't supposed to be funny. It set the mood for the scene where June learns about her cage.Being a fan of 24 myself, I was bummed when the gag pretty much amounted to nothing. The clock didn't have to get to zero... that would've meant the Bombat would be able to start multiplying. And Ah-mah did capture it before then. I think they could've at least shown it one more time right before she did, and the scene still would've been set for Juney's emotional breakdown.

I know it's being nitpicky, but hey, they make a reference to one of my favorite shows, at least follow it through to the end, if anything.

[DocForbin]

My best guess is that Orchid Bay might be a synthesis of two of the places Judd Winick has called or calls home--San Francisco and West Islip NY. Of course we do see a lot of SF refrences like trolleys, but I wish they'd throw me a bone and feature such Long Island landmarks like the duck in Flanders or the concrete sphynx (forget where it was/is, but those of you who live down there would know what I'm talking about).

Winick is perhaps using the number one rule in writing: Write what you know. He largely based June on his Real World roomie and now wife Pam Ling, he puts a lot of San Francisco references into the show, etc.

Of course this is just a guess on my part. :D