C&C - Eureka Seven - "Paper Moon-Shine" [6/9]

[The Landstander]

Moonshinin'

[v1cious]

voice acting's getting better. i wasn't sure how well they would be able to pull off such an important episode.

[Katsumara]

Yeah. They did it alright, I felt. The VA for Eureka is pretty decent in my opinion. Renton's I'm still trying to get used to, but he did fairly well too. I enjoyed this episode as a whole either way, both times I've seen it.

[Rolling Cloud]

WOAH!! That was a roller coaster!

-- Right when Eureka revealed the truth about the kids and Holland, the following explosion went off along with my brain. :sweat:

[Freedom Fighter]

So we finally get some answers. And I just as figured there was something dark about Eureka... now I know. And this is where she found 'her' kids too, huh? I wonder if the kids fully understand everything that happened that day, or did their childish naiveness at the time block the truth from them?

I'm not understanding why the government continues to bomb a city that's in ruins, unless they're aware of the Vodarac's survivors lurking nearby.

Evil governments seem to be popular in the shows I watch. I wonder why.

7.5 out of 10 for "Paper Moon-Shine."

[NickWhiz1]

Wow.

A metric ****load of exposition in this one. Definitely explains a lot about Eureka, the Gekko State, and the kids.

So, now that Renton is an official member of the Gekko State, do they stop picking on him? :sweat:

I take it Anemone appears in the next episode, right?

[DragonPup]

I take it Anemone appears in the next episode, right? Yes.

[Paul_Cousins]

How anyone else notice that on the DirectTV schedule that for this Saturday, the Eureka episode is coming on at 1:30 AM eastern instead of 12:00 AM eastern?

[v1cious]

How anyone else notice that on the DirectTV schedule that for this Saturday, the Eureka episode is coming on at 1:30 AM eastern instead of 12:00 AM eastern?

really? my tv guide says the regular time

[Wounded_Dragon]

There may be a lot of exposition, but it was one of the most interesting E7 episodes so far. Finally revisits some issues that were brought up in the first few episodes as well as adding interesting twists.

The only negative springing to mind at the moment is why it took so long to get to this point.

[Pepperidge]

The only negative springing to mind at the moment is why it took so long to get to this point.
That's really the only major negative thing about the show. Although Anemone and theEND do make up for it.

[Mugen]

Heh, Renton is getting smacked like a ragdoll.


Huh, I'm slowly starting to see why this was put on AS...

[Carlos]

Now I see why the little kids were orphans...:(

Dammit, this is kinda reminding me of Samurai X Trust.

[KuwabaraTheMan]

When people said this show got really awesome, they weren't kidding. That was just plain amazing. The second half got my eyes watering.

And that scene where Eureka kicks over the body and we see the kids sitting there...:crying:

[PickHut]

Wow, that's one way to adopt children. Man, seeing Eureka all robotic(er) and cold(er) in the flashbacks was kinda creepy. And ouch, Renton took quite a beating in this episode: two punches, a traffic sign, and some rocks.

Nice episode. I give PMS (.....) a B.

[NahMan85]

Wow, that's one way to adopt children. Man, seeing Eureka all robotic(er) and cold(er) in the flashbacks was kinda creepy. And ouch, Renton took quite a beating in this episode: two punches, a traffic sign, and some rocks.Yeah really now he didn't even deserve any of it either. Like he ever does. Poor Renton always on the short end of the stick even when they finally treat him like a member he has to clean a dirty closet. :sad: They must do that to all the new guys. :sweat:
I give PMS (.....) a B.
I'm going to pretend that I didn't read that.

[Katsumara]

The best part about Renton getting hit was probably the sign. XD So funny, it was. I love watching him run into it everytime.

[Master Moron]

There may be a lot of exposition, but it was one of the most interesting E7 episodes so far. Finally revisits some issues that were brought up in the first few episodes as well as adding interesting twists.

The only negative springing to mind at the moment is why it took so long to get to this point.

Agreed. This really should have been episode 3 or 4. There was at least 4 episodes so far that didn't have to be made. Let's hope all the viewers haven't already abandoned this show.

So, I assume Eureka killed those kids' parents. That raises some issues. Like, why they like Eureka so much if she killed her parents. Also, in the last episode they were really upset when Eureka left them, thinking she had abandoned them. It made it seem like they'd been orphans for a while and were abandoned by other foster parents. But, apparently, they weren't orphans until Eureka made them orphans.

[Wolfie~Giri]

Geez. Renton the puching bag much? Nice episode (I really loved Moondoggie's voice in this). The fight with Holland was a little more deep in the sub though. Doesn't matter; still good.

[Paul_Cousins]

Good episode, so basically this series is a cross between, "The A Team", the original Mobile Suit Gundam and Fooly Cooly.

And not a bad mix of genres to be honest.

[ShadowGUN]

So, I assume Eureka killed those kids' parents. That raises some issues. Like, why they like Eureka so much if she killed her parents. Also, in the last episode they were really upset when Eureka left them, thinking she had abandoned them. It made it seem like they'd been orphans for a while and were abandoned by other foster parents. But, apparently, they weren't orphans until Eureka made them orphans.


I think the trauma was so bad for the kids they block the event from the minds. I wonder how they are going to react once they remenber.
Anyway it was a good episode. Lot of character development.

9/10

[jv2k]

Finally we get some answers. This is the first episode of the series that has actually left me wanting more. It finally got good, can't wait for next weeks episode.

[CaptainRed]

I'm not understanding why the government continues to bomb a city that's in ruins, unless they're aware of the Vodarac's survivors lurking nearby.

Evil governments seem to be popular in the shows I watch. I wonder why.

Evil governments make good villains, because their very presence usually automatically makes the protagonists the underdogs.

And... that's a good question about the bombings. The only decent hypothesis that I can come up with is that the government knows that that place is special to the Voderac, and regularly bombs it so that they cannot return. It's cheaper than occupying it with ground troops.(depending on the munitions they're using)

Renton took quite a beating in this episode: two punches, a traffic sign, and some rocks.

It's almost funnier in retrospect when you put it that way.

("Oh, one of these things is not like the others. One of these things just doesn't belong...")

So, I assume Eureka killed those kids' parents. That raises some issues. Like, why they like Eureka so much if she killed her parents. Also, in the last episode they were really upset when Eureka left them, thinking she had abandoned them. It made it seem like they'd been orphans for a while and were abandoned by other foster parents. But, apparently, they weren't orphans until Eureka made them orphans.

The question is, were the kids' parents in the scene we saw, or had they been killed before? I think a case can be made for them having been orphans from before that scene, if only to explain their reaction last episode.

And I don't think the kids saw Eureka doing the shooting:

A) she was up high.
B) she was far away.
C) they were very short, and being shielded by adults.


I'm really enjoying this show... the one thing that keeps coming back to bother me is the age of the two leads. They just seem too young for some of the plot points to work; most glaringly, about the kids being Eureka's "real" kids or not, and now about Eureka being a member of a special forces unit in the military. The latter could be explained away later, perhaps... there's something odd about her so it may be a River Tam kind of thing, but until it is explained, it and similar items will only go to distract from what is otherwise a very entertaining story.

*honken*

[Karl Olson]

Good episode, so basically this series is a cross between, "The A Team", the original Mobile Suit Gundam and Fooly Cooly.

And not a bad mix of genres to be honest.

Don't forget the nice dose of Eva and Nadia in the mix too.

And wow. This episode easily has some of the most unsettling moments I've seen in an anime originally targetted at kids (in fact, I'd say it's just as cringeworthy as Narutaru in that fashion.) No wonder they took their time to get here - they'd have been booted off the air in Japan otherwise.

Really though, that was excellently handled. Just enough humor in the intial play to get things in motion before the flashbacks implode into darkness. Eureka's absolutely cold and empty violence - the mentally mechanic mercenary - just left me unsettled. It was evokative of so many real world events - Kristallnacht, the various genocides of the 20th and 21st Century and perhaps most disturbingly, the reports of military on civilian violence in Iraq (first GitS:SAC2 seems shockingly topical to current events, and Eureka is following suit.) The sci-fi coating does nothing to distance you from it - it's not a buffer like in Star Trek or golden-era Sci-Fi novels; it's warning of just how brutal a world could be if such devices were unleashed.

And really this is the synthesis and rebirth of many mech shows that had preceded it. It's has the ensemble cast aspects of both Mobile Suit Gundam (hard military elements) and Martian Successor Nadesico (light sci-fi elements) merched with quasi-religious bends of Evangelion, Gasaraki and Rahxephon, then wrapped with the angst/romance blend of FLCL and Nadia, and all underpinned with a realism of war that is previously only been scene in works like Now and Then, Here and There, Saikano and Grave of the Fireflies. This results in a new fusion, a new definition of realism, especially given the pastoral and thus true-to-life pace, but that's iced off with it's handling of religion. Clearly it's not window dressing like it was in Eva - this is a story underpinned with kind of sectarian violence and holy wars that have been play for most of recorded of civilization. That element may make it more philosophically loaded than the creators ever intended, because to make the claim that even when man has reached the stars that the same kind of feuds that have been the basis of misunderstanding and bloodshed since the beginning of recorded life will be there with us is truely caustic and immensely dark and pessimistic.

In fact, I wonder if any serious mech series that wants to talk war again will be to dodge the issue in the future. Just as Gundam forced the concept of Democracy vs. Totalitarianism into the lexicon of the hard mecha series that followed it, just as Evangelion forced a harder analysis of deus ex machina and ontogenetic elements of mecha in many of the intellectually driven mecha series that followed it, Eureka may very well force future mecha series that are looking to have two sides embroiled with each other to consider that most likely reason that humanity takes sides are cultural differences, and that the biggest and most volatile cultural difference is which belief a person seizes upon and follows, perhaps because it's the biggest gap to bridge. Dictators and democratically elected leaders can find common be that economic or even ideologic, the existentialist ennui that can alienate the young from the old and vice-versa can be over-come with an open-dialogue and honesty, but issues of belief, of faith, are very hard to conquer because there is no logic that can be applied beyond cordially agreeing to disagree. Even the persuasive arguements just to get that point can be very hard to parse depending on the zealotry involved and the rules and ideals of the beliefs systems in question.

Eureka Seven gets that, and I think they are the first to even parse in this medium. I just doubt that they'll be the last.

[herbkir]

E-7 turned a big corner this episode. It's become a different show now.

So Eureka was once an obedient soldier, ruthless and efficient in carrying out whatever mission she was assigned. Follow orders. Don't question. She was scary in that flashback.

But somewhere within her mind, there was a spark of compassion and a sense of doing wrong or she wouldn't have been affected by her discovery of the children. Without that spark, she'd have simply shot them and moved on. Same for Holland and the other Gekkostate crew who once were in special ops. Something caused them to revolt.

As to the bombing, I think CaptainRed was right about the govt. repeatedly bombing the ruined city simply because it was special to the Voderac. Recall that the old woman warned people to get to cover because it was time for the "scheduled bombing" to begin. The bombings have become part of the people's life as they cling to their holy place.

Overall, an outstanding episode and one that should shut up the critics who questioned why AS got this show. (^_*)

[adoptedBatpuppy]

What is that substabce the older lady gave to Holand?
Why is Holand has to be so toupgh on Renton?
He is just a kid who can't sit still when there are some awesome riding waves floating by. ;)
Why did he just ran away, instead of talking things out?
Why didn't other kid got in trouble with Holand?

Looks like this anime series also deals with religion.
The land of Vodarac is some holy land, and government is destroying it because in their eyes those people are terrorists! :ack: There is a war going on. :(
So the Gekko state used to be part of the government, and what are they trying to accomplish by seperating from the government?
Eureka finally told Renton the truth, and he going to help her pilot Nirvash. :p
Did everybody notice how Eureka treats Nirvash like a real person.
When I saw her cry I thought she finally has feelings and can't be a machine, she is just a regular girl who is not sure what path to take in life! :sad:
What were the causes for Gekko State to quit working for the government? I'm guessing it's because of the mass killings that government did!

[Rolling Cloud]

And wow. This episode easily has some of the most unsettling moments I've seen in an anime originally targetted at kids (in fact, I'd say it's just as cringeworthy as Narutaru in that fashion.) No wonder they took their time to get here - they'd have been booted off the air in Japan otherwise.

Eh, almost every anime has to have a dark story arc. For example:

-- One Piece: Arabasta/Water 7
-- Naruto: Wave country Arc/Itachi arc

[Inkan1969]

I'm sorry, those three kids have been such annoying brats that I just couldn't feel more sympathy for them even after finding out their backstory. Honestly If Eureka had just left them in the pile of bodies I don't think I would've felt all that bad. :shrug:

Of course we don't know for sure if the kids' parents are dead. They might've been in that pile, or in some other pile. Or the kids might've gotten separated from that pile.

This was a well made episode. But the theme was a copy of the theme from "Full Metal Alchemist" United Federation -> Alchemist military, Vodarac -> Ishbal

And they said they were going to reveal the truth in this series but

isn't Eureka supposed to be an android? I thought they were going to reveal that here?

[LiquidXIR]

I'm sorry, those three kids have been such annoying brats that I just couldn't feel more sympathy for them even after finding out their backstory. Honestly If Eureka had just left them in the pile of bodies I don't think I would've felt all that bad. :shrug:

Of course we don't know for sure if the kids' parents are dead. They might've been in that pile, or in some other pile. Or the kids might've gotten separated from that pile.

This was a well made episode. But the theme was a copy of the theme from "Full Metal Alchemist" United Federation -> Alchemist military, Vodarac -> Ishbal

And they said they were going to reveal the truth in this series but

isn't Eureka supposed to be an android? I thought they were going to reveal that here?

Nay on all acounts to that spoiler

[Neo Ultra Mike]

The question is, were the kids' parents in the scene we saw, or had they been killed before? I think a case can be made for them having been orphans from before that scene, if only to explain their reaction last episode.

I'm leaning towards them being orphans before that too, also based on they're reaction to when Eureka lifted up the bodies to see them. They looked really traumatized but I'd have expect them to look even more frightened and saddened if there parents had died right in front of them. This is all guesstimation but perhaps there parents had been killed shortly after they were born by an earlier military bombing and they were raised by various others in the town until this, making Eureka the only real "mom" that they knew.

Eh, almost every anime has to have a dark story arc. For example:

-- One Piece: Arabasta/Water 7
-- Naruto: Wave country Arc/Itachi arc

I wouldn't say all. I'd say "Every non totally for children anime that last at least a season and has arcs instead of just regular non-continuity" episodes. Also pure comedy shows don't have dark story arcs either.

This was a well made episode. But the theme was a copy of the theme from "Full Metal Alchemist" United Federation -> Alchemist military, Vodarac -> Ishbal

Well I think that's a fairly common theme about a "corrupt" goverment coming town on a small or not very well armed town or group that's considered different. Let's see how Eureka Seven does with the twist.

But yeah I have to agree this episode defintley piqued my interst more in the series (thankfully other people's interests were piqued beforehand as now ES isn't moving to 1:30 as previously noted). I would still like to know Holland's more personal reasons for not being fond of Vodarac reason (since Eureka had one) but I suppose that will be told later. I'm just glad that Eureka and Renton were able to take out the Federation bombers. Although I do think Eureka's wrong at the end: She has changed some from her appearence in Episode One, and even being confused on whether or not she's changed is a sing of change.

[KaidoYuji8Adam]

:eek:
Well now..that was really cool.
I hope they can come up with some originality from this as well! Its gotten so much better.
I only hope that when we get this week's rating they are just as high as last weeks, so that people got hooked

[Katsumara]

People's tunes sure have changed. >.> That's good. Can't wait for this coming up week.

Inkan1969 - I needed a laugh. Thank you ^.^

[CaptainRed]

I'm leaning towards them being orphans before that too, also based on they're reaction to when Eureka lifted up the bodies to see them. They looked really traumatized but I'd have expect them to look even more frightened and saddened if there parents had died right in front of them. This is all guesstimation but perhaps there parents had been killed shortly after they were born by an earlier military bombing and they were raised by various others in the town until this, making Eureka the only real "mom" that they knew.

Further, they would probably have been clinging to the bodies of their parents had they been in the pile, rather than to each other.

Although I do think Eureka's wrong at the end: She has changed some from her appearence in Episode One, and even being confused on whether or not she's changed is a sing of change.

This is an interesting question: is she fundamentally different from when she attacked the Voderac, or not?

All people change over time. This is inescapable. Little things here and there... it just comes with the passage of time. Fundamental changes, though, are less common. Dedicated effort, life jarring events, these are the kinds of things that lead to them. Eureka definitely experienced such an event during the attack, but did she also undergo a fundamental change?

I say no, and Renton made the prime argument: "You're sitting there talking about missions and stuff, but it's really no different from the orders the military gave you." Eureka at her core is a good person, but she first and foremost seeks some kind of an external structure to which she can comply: missions or orders. Inside of those structures, she is willing to justify many deeds she herself would find unconscionable otherwise. It is only when the deed becomes too personal that she can find the strength within herself to overcome those structures and act on what she believes is right.

Consider: she only found the kids in that group because she had to leave the Nirvash to do the killing. There could very well have been children in that first group she killed, but because she had the filter of the Nirvash between her and the action, she would never know.

Really though, that was excellently handled. Just enough humor in the intial play to get things in motion before the flashbacks implode into darkness. Eureka's absolutely cold and empty violence - the mentally mechanic mercenary - just left me unsettled. It was evokative of so many real world events - Kristallnacht, the various genocides of the 20th and 21st Century and perhaps most disturbingly, the reports of military on civilian violence in Iraq (first GitS:SAC2 seems shockingly topical to current events, and Eureka is following suit.) The sci-fi coating does nothing to distance you from it - it's not a buffer like in Star Trek or golden-era Sci-Fi novels; it's warning of just how brutal a world could be if such devices were unleashed.

Actually, those scenes struck me far more as being reminiscent of the situations of fighter and bomber pilots at any time from World War II to the present than theoretical future occurances. I vaguely remember an episode of MASH that delved into it: the disconnect between the pilot and his target. The fact that there was no human cost applied to the pulling of the trigger, or the pushing of the button, just a click and an explosion far below. Unlike soldiers on the ground, a pilot doesn't get close enough to see the people he hits bleed and die.

And out of curiosity, how did this episode remind you of Kristallnacht?

And really this is the synthesis and rebirth of many mech shows that had preceded it. It's has the ensemble cast aspects of both Mobile Suit Gundam (hard military elements) and Martian Successor Nadesico (light sci-fi elements) merched with quasi-religious bends of Evangelion, Gasaraki and Rahxephon, then wrapped with the angst/romance blend of FLCL and Nadia, and all underpinned with a realism of war that is previously only been scene in works like Now and Then, Here and There, Saikano and Grave of the Fireflies. This results in a new fusion, a new definition of realism, especially given the pastoral and thus true-to-life pace, but that's iced off with it's handling of religion. Clearly it's not window dressing like it was in Eva - this is a story underpinned with kind of sectarian violence and holy wars that have been play for most of recorded of civilization. That element may make it more philosophically loaded than the creators ever intended, because to make the claim that even when man has reached the stars that the same kind of feuds that have been the basis of misunderstanding and bloodshed since the beginning of recorded life will be there with us is truely caustic and immensely dark and pessimistic.

I... haven't seen most of the shows you mentioned, and thus can't make much of a comment on this paragraph. It was just too pretty not to quote though.

In fact, I wonder if any serious mech series that wants to talk war again will be to dodge the issue in the future. Just as Gundam forced the concept of Democracy vs. Totalitarianism into the lexicon of the hard mecha series that followed it, just as Evangelion forced a harder analysis of deus ex machina and ontogenetic elements of mecha in many of the intellectually driven mecha series that followed it, Eureka may very well force future mecha series that are looking to have two sides embroiled with each other to consider that most likely reason that humanity takes sides are cultural differences, and that the biggest and most volatile cultural difference is which belief a person seizes upon and follows, perhaps because it's the biggest gap to bridge. Dictators and democratically elected leaders can find common be that economic or even ideologic, the existentialist ennui that can alienate the young from the old and vice-versa can be over-come with an open-dialogue and honesty, but issues of belief, of faith, are very hard to conquer because there is no logic that can be applied beyond cordially agreeing to disagree. Even the persuasive arguements just to get that point can be very hard to parse depending on the zealotry involved and the rules and ideals of the beliefs systems in question.

Eureka Seven gets that, and I think they are the first to even parse in this medium. I just doubt that they'll be the last.

On this point I think you're mistaken. So far, what I'm seeing is a discussion of personal responsibility, and the question of the "just following orders" defense. Regardless of how nice we may be, are we truly good if we are willing to sweep away our ideals for the sake of our mission? Do those things that we are ordered to do count? When is it okay to forfeit our morality for the sake of our goals? When the means to our ends become to heinous, or when they become too easy to ignore?

[Karl Olson]

Actually, those scenes struck me far more as being reminiscent of the situations of fighter and bomber pilots at any time from World War II to the present than theoretical future occurances. I vaguely remember an episode of MASH that delved into it: the disconnect between the pilot and his target. The fact that there was no human cost applied to the pulling of the trigger, or the pushing of the button, just a click and an explosion far below. Unlike soldiers on the ground, a pilot doesn't get close enough to see the people he hits bleed and die.

The human element certainly has that aspect (or rather, that's Eureka's story on the personal level,) but remember that there is an element of religious zealotry in the ranks above the black ops team/gekkostate, and that's why they were ordered to commit genocide in the first place.

I mean, of course it's grounded in personal view thanks to Eureka's story, and again, it's almost a depressing prophesy that said stories of war would be reborn a new as we reach across the stars. However, the motivations, the things that bring humanity to war in the first place, are perhaps just as interesting because it is at that point at which something can be done to change the course and avert disaster.

And out of curiosity, how did this episode remind you of Kristallnacht?

Religiously motivated violence and destruction of the homes and livelyhood of a group of people from a different faith, being carried by people who aren't even necessarily thinking about it. In those terms, it's almost narrow to call it evokative of Krystalnacht, because they're plenty of events and era threw out history that fall into that catagory - the Inquisition, the Crusades and dare I say it even 9/11 (though that's perhaps been a bit too overinvoked as of late so I'm almost leary of referencing it.) To be fair, the reason why their was a lack of reason between the Gekkostate team and the people smash the windows of Jewish business in Germany is different, but the result is similar - brutal, cold intimidation. The results are similar as well - the people involved regretted their actions after they found perspective, as illuminated in Eureka's case as well - it's just moment of realization and the flaw in the perspective that needed remedying was slightly different. Oddly though, it does boil back to the MASH point - viewing people as targets vs. viewing them as individual humans.

I... haven't seen most of the shows you mentioned, and thus can't make much of a comment on this paragraph. It was just too pretty not to quote though.

Hurrah :D

On this point I think you're mistaken. So far, what I'm seeing is a discussion of personal responsibility, and the question of the "just following orders" defense. Regardless of how nice we may be, are we truly good if we are willing to sweep away our ideals for the sake of our mission? Do those things that we are ordered to do count? When is it okay to forfeit our morality for the sake of our goals? When the means to our ends become to heinous, or when they become too easy to ignore?

I think interestingly it's parsing both of our proposed issues, and again, that's part of what makes it revolutionary. It's taking a very historically astute yet current view of the causes of war, and the things that guide people at the top, and it also views things from the perspective of the mercenaries and soldiers and what happens to them at the point where they recognize that the dogma, or even the cold job for hire stuff doesn't add up when you view people as real and living. In a sense, other shows have parsed that - it's part of why Gundam was revolutionary, but Eureka is taking it into account as part of the complete picture of a world. Faith, reason, technology, love, emnity, ennui - all of this is in play in Eureka Seven, not just an isolated element, and that's really quite different.