C&C - Eureka Seven - "Absolute Defeat" [5/26] [Archive]

Freedom Fighter

05-27-2006, 04:51 PM

Worst episode yet. I've always considered hazing to be rather stupid in real life and there's this.Though I agree with your view on 'hazing'... I'm sorry, but I just couldn't help myself! I couldn't help but laugh at poor, poor Renton! He kept buying into it the whole bit.

Three episodes of improvement in a row... and it all starts with a 'radioactive' bowl of ramen. Here's gag #1... if he can't touch the box... how does he handle it the rest of the way without some kind of protection? I can't believe how quickly he forgot that! #2... urban camoflage... oh, goodness, that's just embarrassing! You'd think by the time he got to the 'men's sauna' he'd figure something's up, but man...

I'll admit, the show still lacks a definitive direction after seven episodes, but they sure are having a hell of a fun time with these side diversions! (And it must be sad for Hilda to be the only sane person on the ship.)

7.5 out of 10 for "Absolute Defeat."

Hyper Shadow X

05-27-2006, 05:36 PM

Wsh I could see this tonight but II can't

adoptedBatpuppy

05-27-2006, 05:43 PM

I hope I can see it tonight I already missed two episodes!

Wounded_Dragon

05-27-2006, 06:05 PM

Though I agree with your view on 'hazing'... I'm sorry, but I just couldn't help myself! I couldn't help but laugh at poor, poor Renton! He kept buying into it the whole bit.

But Renton's been hazed on pretty much ever since he's gotten onto the Gekko. I don't need for him to be a piloting genius or super mechanic, but it's getting annoying when they rag on him EVERY SINGLE EPISODE.

Timmay

05-27-2006, 07:50 PM

But Renton's been hazed on pretty much ever since he's gotten onto the Gekko. I don't need for him to be a piloting genius or super mechanic, but it's getting annoying when they rag on him EVERY SINGLE EPISODE.He's in a ship full of people who are the best in their respective fields. He doesn't really fit in you would say, the ragging stops, but he's still going to essentially be the person who does odd jobs.

Wounded_Dragon

05-27-2006, 08:21 PM

Doing the odd jobs or disgusting jobs, that's fine. But they've been mocking him 24/7 with the rare moment of peace. And it doesn't help that Renton is rather pathetic looking.

That pretty much sums up why I'm having a hard time liking Eureka Seven, despite my bias for cool/weird mecha: Renton is pathetic and the rest of the crew are big meanies. Who's to like? The last few episodes have been about 75% "Why you should not like these people!"

Katsumara

05-27-2006, 08:23 PM

lol XD Big meanies. Best thing evar. Renton is just wussy and doesn't wanna stand up for himself. Nothing wrong with that. >.> Afterall, these people are a lot different than what he pictured them to be like.. from the magazine. heh.

DragonPup

05-27-2006, 09:17 PM

But Renton's been hazed on pretty much ever since he's gotten onto the Gekko. I don't need for him to be a piloting genius or super mechanic, but it's getting annoying when they rag on him EVERY SINGLE EPISODE. If it makes you feel any better...
He starts getting a bit more respect after this episode

Timmay

05-28-2006, 12:22 AM

15 seconds of slang.

The Myst

05-28-2006, 12:22 AM

Worst anime since s-CRY-ed.

Furu

05-28-2006, 01:04 AM

Worst anime since s-CRY-ed.

I believe the proper response to this is "lol opinions"

NOW we're getting into the plot stuff.

Fafhrd

05-28-2006, 01:07 AM

Worst anime since s-CRY-ed.However, the animation itself is reasonably decent. IMHO. Some of them give you nothing but stills and create "motion" by panning across the picture.

PickHut

05-28-2006, 01:15 AM

Pretty funny episode. Renton never ceases to amuse me.

I give AD a B.

Game Freak 4

05-28-2006, 01:50 AM

I didn't find this episode funny. The crew would sink so as to pull a prank on Renton, and Eureka doesn't even know what "uncool" means? WTF?
Oh, and Holland is "uncool."

(or maybe I wasn't in a funny mood because I was having the worst day of my life. Maybe Renton was right from the start. Life does suck.)

Katsumara

05-28-2006, 03:25 AM

I missed the very end on the first time through, the credits and all.. but just caught it. What a time to start showing previews for the next episode? lol, wonder why they just now started this. >.>

One Radical Dude

05-28-2006, 03:41 AM

I couldn't enjoy this one -- I just couldn't. This is probably my least favorite episode so far (as last week's was my favorite). I really felt for Renton in this one. At least, they finally show previews for the next one.

rabidrednek

05-28-2006, 10:58 AM

So apparently any female nudity is wrong, but they feel free to throw dozens of bare-assed men at the screen? Seriously I was turning the channel several times during the sauna scenes. If they have to do male nudity, fine, but at least balance the equation.

I don't mean bare butts or boobs, Inu Yasha knows how to do it right, on the occasions one of the females is sans clothing it always shots where it's clear they aren't wearing anything, but you still don't see anything of signifigance.

Aside from all that, I do like this show, and I'll keep watching it.

blitzkrieg

05-28-2006, 01:03 PM

They're not really being mean. They're not trying to be cruel. Eventually I assume Renton will figure that out.

Youko Recca

05-28-2006, 01:09 PM

I don't see why everyone's getting so emotional, really. This is a general happening amongst friends. It's not like they're disgusted by the kid's image by the end of the day.

Neo Ultra Mike

05-28-2006, 01:25 PM

I missed the very end on the first time through, the credits and all.. but just caught it. What a time to start showing previews for the next episode? lol, wonder why they just now started this. >.>

Hmmm I noticed that too. Isn't the main plotline of the show really suppose to start jumping next episode? Maybe that's the reason why they're showing it. It also could be due to the fact that after this week, Eureka Seven's moving to the 1:30 slot. So it could be like "hey here's a preview of next week's ep, and if you want to watch it you better find we're appearing even later on the schedule!"

I don't see why everyone's getting so emotional, really. This is a general happening amongst friends. It's not like they're disgusted by the kid's image by the end of the day.

Well it depends on the type of friends you're talking about. Real friends/close friends would never do that crap to you. But it is possible that general friends/friends you hang out with at a job location could do that stuff to you. Still, what type of friend would make you think you're running some big important errand, make you wear a ridicolous outfit and send you somewhere that with big nearly naked guys saying you need to rip off they're "wig" to deliever the "package" for them, and then not even have a backup plan if things start going wrong and it looks like your ass is gonna be whooped? So that's like saying they're friends the same way that saying that Meatwad and Master Shake are friends.:D

This actually brings me to a general point: in general animes are not nearly as funny as American Cartoons, at least to an American auidence anyway. Could just be the timing or trying more to incoperate some sort of "plot" or "meaning" into the humor, but I didn't really find Renton's razing to be that funny. I did sort of like the emotional context of it though: the fact that Moondoggie's pissed off at being "replaced" (stay long enough in one spot in a group and you will be mad if that spot is taken by someone else no matter how "bad" it is), and how Eureka mentioned he's helping bring everyone's spirits up. Plus I'm sure that it's better then being sentanced in the brig at least. (I would of liked seeing the kids have more respect for Renton though. He earned respect from them last episode, but I guess they were just playing along with the others). Anyway maybe now that the razing has reached a high point we can get into more of the main plot then just some random hinting and this series can really start taking off. Hopefully.

Youko Recca

05-28-2006, 01:30 PM

So that's like saying they're friends the same way that saying that Meatwad and Master Shake are friends.:D

Not really, as that falls under what I said at the end of my previous post. They didn't realize the guy would be that big given they couldn't see him, but I admit that was a bit reckless. Everything else seemed standard for the prank despite how crude it is. And really, I'd be surprised if close friends don't pull pranks with each other.

Neo Ultra Mike

05-28-2006, 01:38 PM

Not really, as that falls under what I said at the end of my previous post. They didn't realize the guy would be that big given they couldn't see him, but I admit that was a bit reckless. Everything else seemed standard for the prank despite how crude it is. And really, I'd be surprised if close friends don't pull pranks with each other.

Well the MS/Meatwad connection was a joke, but I'm just saying that it's not the type of things that Friends really do to each other. I mean yeah there's jokes and pranks, but nothing like what Renton went through here. Although I do note they didn't really expect him to go through and say that to the guy, nor try and swipe anyone's wig off, but if this was something organized by the whole crew (I mean it was Talho's idea and Holland said bring the camera so even the leaders are in on this) it really shouldn't of been so reckless. Send a little bit more backup then Moondoggie in case things got bad. Would that have been so hard?

Youko Recca

05-28-2006, 01:58 PM

Hmm, well, you do have a point there.

DAISHI

05-28-2006, 04:18 PM

Loved the episode. Not the greatest, but pretty good. Yeah I've got lots of friends that would pull these sorts of stunts. The whole thing with him possibly getting beaten up, maybe not. But the rest was hillarious, and I can think of a few great pranks we've pulled that have sent each other on wild goose chases. This seemed like a good fraternity occurence, just one big man joke.

As always the art was good, and I really like the sentimental touch. I just like Eureka's growing response to Renton, the evolving nature of their interaction. I thought him dancing in the background while Moon Doggie panicked with the camera was funny, thought it was hillarious to see him in the sauna, the only part that really dragged for me was his conversation over the ice cream. But that got cleaned up relatively quickly.

Freedom Fighter

05-28-2006, 05:39 PM

Something that hasn't been noted here... Hilda was visibly against the whole prank, and Eureka was into it only to admire Renton's resolve... she wasn't into the prank aspect. Granted, neither of them tried really hard to pull the plug on it right there and then when they came in. And to be fair, none of the Gekko crew are really mean-spirited... it doesn't seem as if any of them would prank Renton into a life-threatening situation. I'm not condoning their actions... but they don't hate his existance, by and by.

Timmay

05-28-2006, 05:48 PM

Think of it as the initiation in a frat house.

v1cious

05-28-2006, 07:35 PM

yay! the good episodes start next week, so people can stop whining. i have a feeling episode 9 will change at least some people's opinions of the show.

Wounded_Dragon

05-28-2006, 07:38 PM

Think of it as the initiation in a frat house.

But the membership comes after the hazing, not before.

And hazing's been severely curtailed in recent years due to people getting killed because of the stupider stunts.

Timmay

05-28-2006, 07:57 PM

He's not officially a member of Gekko State at this point.

Wounded_Dragon

05-28-2006, 09:03 PM

Funkatron

05-28-2006, 09:13 PM

He's on the ship.

And what kind of message does it send that all the authority figures are "in" on the hazing? Usually there's at least a token "this is wrong" from the higher ups, but in this case it only comes from one of the lower tier.

You are talking about a ship run by futuristic "surfers". And yes, I think people haze newbies. Anyone who's spent 1 minute in a forum knows this.

Wounded_Dragon

05-28-2006, 10:07 PM

You are talking about a ship run by futuristic "surfers". And yes, I think people haze newbies. Anyone who's spent 1 minute in a forum knows this.

And there's usually rules about trolling and such. There's the token "this is wrong."

Really, there were so many ways this prank could've turned lethal it's not funny. Renton's not some college kid applying to a fraternity, this a young kid with no other recourse besides the streets at this point.

DAISHI

05-28-2006, 10:19 PM

Wow reading some of these posts makes me realize some people take cartoons way too seriously.

Funkatron

05-28-2006, 10:31 PM

Wow reading some of these posts makes me realize some people take cartoons way too seriously.

Agreed.

Master Moron

05-28-2006, 10:46 PM

Think of it as the initiation in a frat house.

I'm not sure people should really put frat houses on a pedestal. I knew this one guy who began to take anti depressants partly due to his experience being hazed. Also, maybe this is just my personal experience, but it seems like suicide is relatively common among frat guys. Hazing is more or less torture. I know that frat brothers are supposed to be "friends for life", but often that's not the case. I know people who want nothing to do with their frat brothers after college. No good comes from hazing.

Wow reading some of these posts makes me realize some people take cartoons way too seriously.

Not really. It's more like the show provokes discussion of important issues in our society. Honestly, if we just take in information without thinking and discussing it afterwards then we're basically rotting our brains. Sometimes I really don't think people look at shows deeply enough.

DAISHI

05-28-2006, 11:19 PM

Taylor Karras

05-29-2006, 12:57 AM

What?

I think that the good stuff will never come.

0.5/10 overall.

One Radical Dude

05-29-2006, 02:00 AM

Wow reading some of these posts makes me realize some people take cartoons way too seriously.
I can't agree with that. I just didn't find the episode very enjoyable. The ending to the episode was decent.

The Landstander

05-29-2006, 03:16 AM

What?

I think that the good stuff will never come.

0.5/10 overall.It's obvious you don't like the show, you don't need to remind people of this fact in every thread.

Captain Zechs

05-29-2006, 03:14 PM

Before the episode, the normal message that pops up, usually says, viewers under the age of 14, but this time it said 17, and I see why.

It was humorous, and the show is starting to get better.

aesir

05-29-2006, 04:38 PM

Wolfie~Giri

05-29-2006, 08:47 PM

Not as funny as the sub. But Renton's voice is gullible enough in both versions anyway. It's a slow start but getting better. I'm easily hooked to shows like these... Guilty pleasure I guess....

Master Moron

05-29-2006, 11:10 PM

I understand the need for analyzing information, but I'm a grown person with a career, and if I really want to tackle a topic I'll go to a more pertinent source. Television is something I watch to zone out for half an hour and get away from the rigors of a day. But if you really want to take that route, then consider that people are taking this situation completely out of context, essentially taking a comedy oriented episode about gags one pull's on a friend and pondering "What if he had gotten beaten to death" by a seven foot surfer. In the context of the episode and the tone established, that wasn't even an option.

Yeah, I suppose that's true. But, I also don't think you can completely write off the content of a show based on the context. For instance, Totally Spies is just a silly show that's not intended to be taken seriously. It's quite evident that the writer's aren't paying much attention to the actual content of the show and what messages the show sends out. Yet, that's the very reason why I absolutely despise that show. If you actually look at the content of that show it sends out horrible messages. The content of a show should be looked at in the proper context, but that doesn't mean you should ignore the content itself.

beren

05-30-2006, 04:18 AM

What they did to renton was funny, it was great stuff.

Vallen Valiant

05-30-2006, 09:14 AM

Yeah, I suppose that's true. But, I also don't think you can completely write off the content of a show based on the context. For instance, Totally Spies is just a silly show that's not intended to be taken seriously. It's quite evident that the writer's aren't paying much attention to the actual content of the show and what messages the show sends out. Yet, that's the very reason why I absolutely despise that show. If you actually look at the content of that show it sends out horrible messages. The content of a show should be looked at in the proper context, but that doesn't mean you should ignore the content itself.

People get kill by innocent pranks all the time. In that sense, the episode was realistic. The fact that there was no consequence for the people who pull the pranks was also realistic, since there was not enough actual harm done.

Yes, I know what it feels like to be bullied. I also know our society don't give a damn about it. The sooner kids realise that the working environment is exactly the same as the school environment, the better.

No, bullies don't get punished unless someone dies. That's a fact. Anime has a tendency to pull no punches, and this is one example.

Youko Recca

05-30-2006, 09:27 AM

Only on TZ could a thread about a comedy episode be drastically hurled into angst like this...

Conan-san

05-30-2006, 10:42 AM

Indeed, I thought it was halerious myself, and I've been the subject of quite the bullying in my time too so it's sorta, relate to this and set socks to "be laughed off".

herbkir

05-30-2006, 12:20 PM

As a victim of bullying and hazing myself, I felt sorry for Renton and thought the crew involved in this affair were doing the whole ship a disservice. I particularly found it hard to believe that Holland, as the top dog, didn't make obvious, official noises of disapproval just for the record.

I can see why this show is having such trouble on AS. It's another Wolf's Rain. It's slow. Those who like it, like it well, but there aren't too many who like it. E-7's like what FLCL would have been had it been expanded out to 26 episodes. The previous E-7 episode pulled in fewer than 175K viewers, and I thought that ep. was significantly better than this one. Nonetheless, I'll continue following this show out of fascination with Eureka herself. (^_*)

Timmay

05-30-2006, 12:43 PM

This discussion is ridiculous.. next let's talk about how violent cartoons are destroying homes.

Space Chief

05-30-2006, 01:48 PM

This discussion is ridiculous.. next let's talk about how violent cartoons are destroying homes.

I for one think America's families are destroying violent cartoons.;)

Conan-san

05-30-2006, 03:35 PM

*Puts hand infrount of top lip* Yes! And this gashtly piece of japanese trash is the centere of it all! Let us strive to bring Saved by the bell back and let it's glory radiate Adult Swim.
HAIL SCREACH!

And that's my ot post for the day.

Master Moron

05-30-2006, 04:30 PM

People get kill by innocent pranks all the time. In that sense, the episode was realistic. The fact that there was no consequence for the people who pull the pranks was also realistic, since there was not enough actual harm done.

Yes, I know what it feels like to be bullied. I also know our society don't give a damn about it. The sooner kids realise that the working environment is exactly the same as the school environment, the better.

No, bullies don't get punished unless someone dies. That's a fact. Anime has a tendency to pull no punches, and this is one example.

I remember back in college I was taking this health course where we discussed how much of a problem bullying was in schools. I raised my hand and said that instead of punishing the bullies we should teach the victims to fight back. The whole class roared with laughter. I didn't make any more comments that day.

Wounded_Dragon

05-30-2006, 06:06 PM

I remember back in college I was taking this health course where we discussed how much of a problem bullying was in schools. I raised my hand and said that instead of punishing the bullies we should teach the victims to fight back. The whole class roared with laughter. I didn't make any more comments that day.

They didn't have kids I assume? Anyway, research on bullying is rather recent; development of anti-bullying is even more recent (and the most known program that isn't ad-hoc wasn't even developed in North America).

Katsumara

05-31-2006, 12:59 AM

dear god, the dub is terrible... well, for the main character at least. The rest are ok..

By the way, for those of you who really dont like the show, you might as well stop watching. I thought the first 2 episodes were the best of the whole series imo.

>.>! You thought the first two episodes were the best of the entire series? Wow... please tell me you haven't seen the whole series, because honestly.. eh nevermind. I won't say anything, still. Very odd. >.>

Anyway, A new opening starts around episode 14 I think? It's called Shounen Heart by Home Made. They've done other openings to other animes too, so be the judge. It's my 2nd favorite opening though. Here's hoping we get the full version - -;

On the slowness of E7, I have to disagree. When referring to shows such as Gundam Seed/Destiny.. they weren't "slow" at the beginning because they were almost literally the same damn thing the first few episodes through. - -; Ripping ideas and such from previous Gundam series is easy due to the fact that there are 9 million of them, but almost down to the letter? Go Fu*kuda.. >.> Yeah, you know what letter goes in place of the asterisk. :P Anyway.. *yawn* tired.. sleep..good.

Conan-san

05-31-2006, 05:13 PM

On the slowness of E7, I have to disagree. When referring to shows such as Gundam Seed/Destiny.. they weren't "slow" at the beginning because they were almost literally the same damn thing the first few episodes through. - -; Ripping ideas and such from previous Gundam series is easy due to the fact that there are 9 million of them, but almost down to the letter? Go Fu*kuda.. >.> Yeah, you know what letter goes in place of the asterisk. :P Anyway.. *yawn* tired.. sleep..good. I call bs on that, I didn't see any other UC based show before seed and it's still slow to me 10 eps in.

Master Moron

05-31-2006, 06:31 PM

They didn't have kids I assume? Anyway, research on bullying is rather recent; development of anti-bullying is even more recent (and the most known program that isn't ad-hoc wasn't even developed in North America).

One or two of them did. I guess the idea of teaching kids how to fight back against bullies is seen as ridiculous to some people because they believe that it's using violence to fight violence. Some people think that if a kid is being bullied they should try to talk their way out of it or go and tell an adult. Personally I think this attitude is rather unrealistic. You really can't talk your way out of being bullied and sometimes telling an adult will increase the bullying. Hell, in my elementary school bullying sometimes went on right in front of teachers and the teachers didn't say anything. Usually the only way to stop a bully from beating you up is to fight back.

I honestly don't know what schools currently do to prevent bullying. My understanding that it goes more to prevention on the bully side of the equation. I don't know how exactly they expect to teach bullies not to bully. I mean, I think bullies are aware that what they're doing is wrong, and they're most likely not the type to listen to their teacher's advice. I think prevention should be focused on the victims.

Wounded_Dragon

05-31-2006, 07:49 PM

I honestly don't know what schools currently do to prevent bullying. My understanding that it goes more to prevention on the bully side of the equation. I don't know how exactly they expect to teach bullies not to bully. I mean, I think bullies are aware that what they're doing is wrong, and they're most likely not the type to listen to their teacher's advice. I think prevention should be focused on the victims.

The program that I was referring to was the "Olweus Bullying Prevention Program." It's a full-blown setup, from corporation to school to classroom management. Bullies are part of a climate, you need to make the climate anti-bully if you want to cut down on it. You especially want to do that because research indicates that bullying is socially stable, ie, once the kids see this kid as a bully, they reinforce that idea and even if the kid wanted to not be a bully, they would treat him as a bully.

An interesting statistic is that there's a measurable percentage of kids who are both bully and victim. You can't just target prevention to victim.

Katsumara

05-31-2006, 09:02 PM

I call bs on that, I didn't see any other UC based show before seed and it's still slow to me 10 eps in.

Well we aren't 10 eps in yet in the first place. Unless you were talking about Gundam that is. Anyway, you're telling me that a lot of the openings to a "New" gundam series don't start off in the general, generic way? Bad guys steal new mobile suits, one random guy who becomes the good guy saves one, fights off bad guys through rest of the series. Good/Bad meet in the end in an end all? (Seed being different because the "bad guy" from the beginning knows the good guy, blah dee blah).. anyway, this isn't a Gundam argument, but if it were, I'd have some fun with it. Conan, feel free to PM me. :P

Either way, I mean unless Adult Swim just rips the series off the air completely.. which I don't see happening, then you guys may get bored enough to sit down and continue to watch it. :P Who knows! Yay for mac-n-cheese! -goes to eat-

Scirel

05-31-2006, 10:58 PM

This whole bullying discussion is a huge Deja Vu for me. I did a whole presentation on it and paper for my sociology class and I see it regurgitated in bits and pieces here. <bragging> Got an A on it too</Bragging>

all the stuff I found out was pretty mind blowing and against everything you've ever seen on TV about bullies.

Basically, as anyone who has been bullied knows, bullies DO NOT have low self esteem and just want friends. They're among the most popualr kids at the schools and their behavior is reinfored by them.

All the research papers I read were pretty clear on the data and that the problem is a discipinary one. As someone else in this thread stated, the teachers simply don`t care.

I agree that the climate has to change, and we should make the teachers care about bullying as a serious problem.

Duke

06-01-2006, 12:25 AM

Well we aren't 10 eps in yet in the first place. Unless you were talking about Gundam that is. Anyway, you're telling me that a lot of the openings to a "New" gundam series don't start off in the general, generic way? Bad guys steal new mobile suits, one random guy who becomes the good guy saves one, fights off bad guys through rest of the series. Good/Bad meet in the end in an end all? (Seed being different because the "bad guy" from the beginning knows the good guy, blah dee blah).. anyway, this isn't a Gundam argument, but if it were, I'd have some fun with it. Conan, feel free to PM me. :P
The "bad guys" only stole the Mobile Suits in SEED/SEED Destiny (unless we're talking sidestories, but there's far too many to keep track of). And "one random guy" was MSG & SEED. In Zeta Kamille had Quattro and a bunch of random AEUG pilots, Heero had the other Gundam pilots in Wing, Domon had the Shuffle Alliance in G, and Shinn had Rey, Luna, and eventually Athrun and Heine in SEED Destiny.

And except for Char, all the antagonists stop fighting the main character (well, unless you count Duel's skirmish with Freedom in Episode 35) around mid-series.

Katsumara

06-01-2006, 06:13 AM

Well, Duke.. I actually was talking about sidestories. I mean.. I tend to count 0083 as well where Gato stole the GP02A ( I think it's called, the one armed with the Nuke) and the series was based around him and the Kou's hatred/fighting a lot. Blahdeeblah. Also, i could of sworn, but aren't some of the plots throughout the gundam world based on the villains coming to try and steal information or the entire mobile suit itself so it couldn't be used against them? I mean, sure G-Gundam had the Shuffle Alliance... but I'm sure people agree that G-Gundam was wrestling with mobile suits. >.> Heh. Gundam Wing/Endless Waltz didn't have any mobile suit theft, then again.. that was also a sidestory. I never considered 0080/0083/0079 stuff sidestories since it stayed with the UC Mainstream. Zakus, GMs, stuff like that. Blah, I'm rambling as always. Anyway.. just my opinion on things. ^^;

Btw, I hope this 45 minute new Gundam OVA will be any good. x.x..

I realize I left out other series in the discussion such as Turn A, Gundam X and what-not, but I don't know as much about them as the other's I meantioned. No need in talking about something that I have no clue about. >.> That'd sound like what I did with essays in highschool. BS my way through.