Good News: A disease is defeated

[sun]

You Prabably have not heard of this, but it is good news:........Dose of Tenacity Wears Down a Horrific Disease



By DONALD G. McNEIL Jr.
Published: March 26, 2006
OGI, Nigeria (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/nigeria/index.html?inline=nyt-geo) — Whatever secrets the turgid brown depths of the Sacred Pond of Ogi may keep, there is one they betray quite easily: why it is so infuriatingly hard to wipe even one disease off the face of the earth.
Skip to next paragraph (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/26/international/africa/26worm.html?hp&ex=1143435600&en=362ec16011b8103d&ei=5094&partner=homepage#secondParagraph) Enlarge This Image (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:pop_me_up2%28%27http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2006/03/26/international/26worm_CA1ready.html%27,%20%2726worm_CA1ready%27,%20%27width=720,height=600,scrollbars=yes,toolbars=no,resizable=yes%27%29)
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/03/26/international/worm2.184.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:pop_me_up2%28%27http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2006/03/26/international/26worm_CA1ready.html%27,%20%2726worm_CA1ready%27,%20%27width=720,height=600,scrollbars=yes,toolbars=no,resizable=yes%27%29)Vanessa Vick for The New York Times
THE PROBLEM
The Sacred Pond of Ogi, Nigeria, was contaminated with the water fleas that were infected with the Guinea worm larvae. Villagers, holding to traditional beliefs, initially tried to dissuade health officials from treating the water. More Photos > (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:pop_me_up2%28%27http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2006/03/25/international/20060326_WORM_SLIDESHOW_index.html%27,%20%2720060326_WORM_SLIDESHOW%27,%20%27width=750,height=600,scrollbars=yes,toolbars=no,resizable=yes%27%29)

On the Brink: Guinea Worm
A Long Crusade
This is the second in a series of articles about five diseases — polio, Guinea worm, measles, blinding trachoma and lymphatic filariasis — that are extinct in the developed world but stubbornly persistent in some poor nations. As the diseases hover on the brink of eradication, doctors and scientists face daunting obstacles as they struggle to finish the job.

THE DISEASE
Guinea worm, or dracunculiasis, is not fatal, unless tetanus infects a wound.
But the excruciating pain can disable small farmers, threatening their families with starvation.
There were 11,510 cases in 2005, down from 3 million in 1986.


Previous Articles and Multimedia in the Series (http://www.nytimes.com/ref/health/2006_BRINK_SERIES.html)
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/article3/multimedia_promo_hd.gif http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/template_images/sectionfront_kicker/video.gif (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:pop_me_up2%28%27http://nytimes.feedroom.com/?fr_story=0e0ae4d492941154cd5b8daa3c84b1f8f19c4743%27,%20%2720060326_WORM_VIDEO%27,%20%27width=776,height=600,scrollbars=yes,toolbars=no,resizable=yes%27%29)http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/03/25/science/video.162.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:pop_me_up2%28%27http://nytimes.feedroom.com/?fr_story=0e0ae4d492941154cd5b8daa3c84b1f8f19c4743%27,%20%27820_700%27,%20%27width=820,height=700,location=no,scrollbars=yes,toolbars=no,resizable=yes%27%29) The Guinea Worm (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:pop_me_up2%28%27http://nytimes.feedroom.com/?fr_story=0e0ae4d492941154cd5b8daa3c84b1f8f19c4743%27,%20%27820_700%27,%20%27width=820,height=700,location=,scrollbars=yes,toolbars=no,resizable=yes%27%29)


http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/template_images/sectionfront_kicker/photographs.gif (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:pop_me_up2%28%27http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2006/03/25/international/20060326_WORM_SLIDESHOW_index.html%27,%20%2720060326_WORM_SLIDESHOW%27,%20%27width=750,height=600,scrollbars=yes,toolbars=no,resizable=yes%27%29)http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/03/25/international/26worm.1621.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:pop_me_up2%28%27http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2006/03/25/international/20060326_WORM_SLIDESHOW_index.html%27,%20%27750_630%27,%20%27width=750,height=630,location=no,scrollbars=yes,toolbars=no,resizable=yes%27%29) An Age-Old Problem (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:pop_me_up2%28%27http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2006/03/25/international/20060326_WORM_SLIDESHOW_index.html%27,%20%27750_630%27,%20%27width=750,height=630,location=no,scrollbars=yes,toolbars=no,resizable=yes%27%29)


http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/template_images/sectionfront_kicker/graphic.gif (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:pop_me_up2%28%27http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2006/03/25/international/20060325_WORM_GRAPHIC.html%27,%20%2720060325_WORM_GRAPHIC%27,%20%27width=520,height=600,scrollbars=yes,toolbars=no,resizable=yes%27%29)http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/03/25/international/for_WORMcycle_promo.gif (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:pop_me_up2%28%27http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2006/03/25/international/20060325_WORM_GRAPHIC.html%27,%20%27520_639%27,%20%27width=520,height=639,location=no,scrollbars=yes,toolbars=no,resizable=yes%27%29) The Life Cycle of Guinea Worm (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:pop_me_up2%28%27http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2006/03/25/international/20060325_WORM_GRAPHIC.html%27,%20%27520_639%27,%20%27width=520,height=639,location=no,scrollbars=yes,toolbars=no,resizable=yes%27%29)


http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/template_images/sectionfront_kicker/map.gif (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:pop_me_up2%28%27http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2006/03/25/international/20060325_WORM_MAP.html%27,%20%2720060325_WORM_MAP%27,%20%27width=670,height=487,scrollbars=yes,toolbars=no,resizable=yes%27%29)http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/03/25/international/for_WORMmap_promo.gif (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:pop_me_up2%28%27http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2006/03/25/international/20060325_WORM_MAP.html%27,%20%27670_487%27,%20%27width=670,height=487,location=no,scrollbars=yes,toolbars=no,resizable=yes%27%29) The Range of Guinea Worm (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:pop_me_up2%28%27http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2006/03/25/international/20060325_WORM_MAP.html%27,%20%27670_487%27,%20%27width=670,height=487,location=no,scrollbars=yes,toolbars=no,resizable=yes%27%29)



Enlarge This Image (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:pop_me_up2%28%27http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2006/03/25/international/26wormA1.ready.html%27,%20%2726wormA1_ready%27,%20%27width=720,height=600,scrollbars=yes,toolbars=no,resizable=yes%27%29)
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/03/25/international/worm.184.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:pop_me_up2%28%27http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2006/03/25/international/26wormA1.ready.html%27,%20%2726wormA1_ready%27,%20%27width=720,height=600,scrollbars=yes,toolbars=no,resizable=yes%27%29)Vanessa Vick for The New York Times
At a containment center in Ogi, Nigeria, a Guinea-worm patient, Comfort Ura, with a daughter, gets modest care and treatment. More Photos > (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:pop_me_up2%28%27http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2006/03/25/international/20060326_WORM_SLIDESHOW_index.html%27,%20%2720060326_WORM_SLIDESHOW%27,%20%27width=750,height=600,scrollbars=yes,toolbars=no,resizable=yes%27%29)



Ogi is one of the last areas of Nigeria infested with Guinea worm, a plague so ancient that it is found in Egyptian mummies and is thought to be the "fiery serpent" described in the Old Testament as torturing the Israelites in the desert.
For untold generations here, yardlong, spaghetti-thin worms erupted from the legs or feet — or even eye sockets — of victims, forcing their way out by exuding acid under the skin until it bubbled and burst. The searing pain drove them to plunge the blisters into the nearest pool of water, whereupon the worm would squirt out a milky cloud of larvae, starting the cycle anew.
"The pain is like if you stab somebody," said Hyacinth Igelle, a farmer with a worm coming out of a hand so swollen and tender that he could not hold a hoe. He indicated how the pain moved slowly up his arm. "It is like fire — it comes late, but you feel it even unto your heart."
Now, thanks to a relentless 20-year campaign led by former President Jimmy Carter (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/c/jimmy_carter/index.html?inline=nyt-per), Guinea worm is poised to become the first disease since smallpox (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/health/diseasesconditionsandhealthtopics/smallpox/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) to be pushed into oblivion. Fewer than 12,000 cases were found last year, down from 3 million in 1986.
Mr. Carter persuaded world leaders, philanthropists and companies to care about an obscure and revolting disease and help him fight it. His foundation mobilized volunteers in tens of thousands of villages to treat the drinking water the worms live in.
But the eradication effort has already taken a decade longer than expected. And sometimes, when the world beyond their farthest sorghum field or camel-grazing spot takes an interest in them, the villagers fight the message.
Guinea worm's Latin name is dracunculiasis, or "affliction with little dragons," but in Africa it is often called empty granary because of its tendency to erupt at harvest time, rendering farmers unable to work. It ought to be almost ridiculously easy to wipe out, because it has a complex life cycle in which humans, worms, fleas and shallow ponds each must play their parts perfectly. Any missing link disrupts the chain of transmission.
Wells can be drilled to prevent the afflicted from plunging their limbs into the village's drinking water. Or local water sources can be treated with a mild pesticide that kills the fleas that swallow the worm larvae and are, in turn, swallowed by the humans. Or every family can faithfully pour its water through a filter cloth each day, or drink through filtering straws. With unremitting effort, experts at the Carter Center now estimate, purging the last nine African countries of the disease could take five more years. Dr. Ernesto Ruiz-Tiben, technical director of its campaign, says he is sure that, at long last, victory is in sight.
Nigeria is in the homestretch. Last year, it reported only 121 new cases, down from estimates of 650,000 two decades ago.
Dr. Ruiz-Tiben has been fighting it for 22 years. And for all the success, he groans, "sometimes it's like dragging a dead elephant through a swamp by its tail." ........................
for rest of the story, http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/26/international/africa/26worm.html?hp&ex=1143435600&en=362ec16011b8103d&ei=5094&partner=homepage (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/26/international/africa/26worm.html?hp&ex=1143435600&en=362ec16011b8103d&ei=5094&partner=homepageIt) ..it is a wonderful story of winning and saving peoples from horrendous pain and suffering.....Good does exist in this world.!.............................................Stuart.

[havokpryde]

Isn't this a parasite? So I guess it isn't a disease. Just one question, any harmful reprucussions to the enviroment from doing this? Everything plays a role in the enviroment and messing with the balance is something that should be done with great care.

[sun]

Isn't this a parasite? So I guess it isn't a disease. Just one question, any harmful reprucussions to the enviroment from doing this? Everything plays a role in the enviroment and messing with the balance is something that should be done with great care.
I suspect that the doctors at the Carter Foundation took this into account, when this particular parasite, that had harmed so many people, was to be attacked and eliminated..It seemed like good news to me, with so many bad things in the news, I thought I would bring up something really positive here..
I have started many less positive threads, and thought this might be uplifting.
There is hope for improvement of the human condition, if we work together at it. It may be diffilcult, very difficult, but not impossible..........Stuart

[Kagetsu]

From what I can tell, this thing only occurs in humans? Without an animal host the only way this can be perpetuated is by human stupidity. Giardia, amebic disentary, cholora, polio I can understand. Iodine, an expensive filter or boiling is the only way to be sure. Yet these fleas are big enough to be filtered in a cloth and they still drink this water. :p I understand we're talking third world poverty, but I blame that on corrupt governments <deleted rant of third world stupidity as they trip over eachother racing to make nukes> :shrug:

[Deadman]

this is very nice to hear. its good that diseases, or parasites, or whatever are defeated.

[havokpryde]

From what I can tell, this thing only occurs in humans? Without an animal host the only way this can be perpetuated is by human stupidity. Giardia, amebic disentary, cholora, polio I can understand. Iodine, an expensive filter or boiling is the only way to be sure. Yet these fleas are big enough to be filtered in a cloth and they still drink this water. :p I understand we're talking third world poverty, but I blame that on corrupt governments <deleted rant of third world stupidity as they trip over eachother racing to make nukes> :shrug:
Sure filter the water through a dirty cloth. Hey here's a brilliant let's wash the cloth ... with the dirty water. Its not that simple. Not to even mention most places don't have access to drinking water, much less water to waste for sanitary uses.

My simple point was that everything in the enviroment for the most part plays some role, however insignificant. Malaria is the number one killer in the world, if I remember correctly, it shares the distinction with AIDS. Remember the DDT campaigns of the 1950's. Let's beat malaria they said. All they did was create tougher mosquitos resistant to pesticide, not to mention a fair amount enviromental damage. Natural selection is action if you will.

Yes, yes I hear you, its that time.

/me reaches for medicine.

[Scythemantis]

I have always hated the move to wipe out guinea worm. I don't care that they melt holes in people...big predators can hurt a hell of a lot worse, but people would be rightfully disgusted by an act to exterminate all crocodiles or sharks.

Parasites, like insects, are of TREMENDOUS importance to the ecosystem. They literally run the food chain (the majority of animals caught by predators are under parasitic influence), they keep the gene pool of more complex species from stagnating, and are even a major factor in the evolution of new subspecies. Yes, there's going to be repercussions, especially with such a prominent lifeform. I'm rooting for them to survive away from civilization. Then everyone is happy.

[Ben]

Isn't this a parasite? So I guess it isn't a disease.

Parasites cause diseases, just like bacteria and viruses cause diseases.

Parasites, like insects, are of TREMENDOUS importance to the ecosystem. They literally run the food chain (the majority of animals caught by predators are under parasitic influence), they keep the gene pool of more complex species from stagnating, and are even a major factor in the evolution of new subspecies. Yes, there's going to be repercussions, especially with such a prominent lifeform. I'm rooting for them to survive away from civilization. Then everyone is happy.

I'd like to hear you say that after you've had a Guinea worm infection. Seriously, c'mon. These things deprive farmers of their livelihoods. Eliminating them is a defense of human life thing. Getting rid of a parasite that ruins people's lives doesn't mean we're going to destroy the food chain. The difference is there are perfectly happy crocodiles and sharks out there, not eating humans. In fact, I think if crocodiles and sharks lived exclusively on human flesh, then not many people would be so worried about wiping them out.

Without modern medicine "interfering with the natural order" I would be dead, twice. So in cases like this my loyalties lie with my own species, thanks.

[havokpryde]

I'd like to hear you say that after you've had a Guinea worm infection. Seriously, c'mon. These things deprive farmers of their livelihoods. Eliminating them is a defense of human life thing. Getting rid of a parasite that ruins people's lives doesn't mean we're going to destroy the food chain. The difference is there are perfectly happy crocodiles and sharks out there, not eating humans. In fact, I think if crocodiles and sharks lived exclusively on human flesh, then not many people would be so worried about wiping them out.

Without modern medicine "interfering with the natural order" I would be dead, twice. So in cases like this my loyalties lie with my own species, thanks.
It's not an us versus them thing. My point is simply caution. The eliminate of smallpox was simple, and that was a mainly human disease. It didn't interact with the enviroment too much, and affected only humans, if memory serves me well. Now imagine if we talk about eliminating wolves. They're pesky and mean. But they also play an important part in the ecosystem, which we felt and understood only later on. Granted these worms might not play such a major role, but still. This part in particular have me worried:
Or local water sources can be treated with a mild pesticide that kills the fleas that swallow the worm larvae and are, in turn, swallowed by the humans.
Two words. Malaria and DDT. I wonder if that counts as three. Brief overview. We sped up evolution for the mosquitos, and DDT caused some health risks, including birth defects. There is no such thing as a safe pesticide. A pesticide is a poison which works by killing those who ingest it in sufficent quantities. Remember what happened to the birds and the fish with DDT. They consumed mosquitos and other things contaiminated with DDT. It wasn't anything at first, but as the concentration of DDT built up within them, they began showing the effects of the DDT, some of them dying uotright, but most famous was the weakening of the birds eggshells. And since mosquitos and fleas are insects, whats guaranteed is that the pesticde will kill those who aren't immune to it, leaving those who survive to have more children, now immune to pesticides.

EDIT: And by your logic, I am sure that some of these worms are happy out there feeding and parasiting off animals. The only thing is, I wonder how we are going to tell the good one from the bad.

[Scythemantis]

No, it would still be abominable and amoral to wipe out crocodiles if they only fed on humans. And people who get maimed by other animals rarely call for their eradication.

Parasites are definitely not the same as "disease", either.

There's also the sheer historical significance of the Guinea Worm that warrants its preservation somewhere.

Of course, I don't believe for a minute that they'lle successfully drive them to extinction.

[Romanesque]

Parasites, like insects, are of TREMENDOUS importance to the ecosystem. They literally run the food chain (the majority of animals caught by predators are under parasitic influence)...And yet, this has nothing to do with wiping out every last parasite on earth, does it?

...they keep the gene pool of more complex species from stagnating, and are even a major factor in the evolution of new subspecies. Yes, there's going to be repercussions, especially with such a prominent lifeform.Doesn't their parasitic stage depend exclusively on humans? If your argument for their survival is that it'll weaken the human gene pool...

I'm rooting for them to survive away from civilization. Then everyone is happy.That's like saying you're rooting for the suffering of "uncivilized" people. :shrug:

Two words. Malaria and DDT.No pesticides are involved in wiping out Guinea Worms.

And by your logic, I am sure that some of these worms are happy out there feeding and parasiting off animals. The only thing is, I wonder how we are going to tell the good one from the bad.Err, by preventing humans from spreading them? No human transmission means no more Guinea Worms. It's all a matter of education and prevention.

Parasites are definitely not the same as "disease", either.Some parasites are the cause of certain diseases, some aren't.

--Romey

[Scythemantis]

Doesn't their parasitic stage depend exclusively on humans? If your argument for their survival is that it'll weaken the human gene pool...
Uh, I said they STRENGTHEN the gene pool, by weeding out the weak, and these worms are not human-only. The life cycle affects many animals in different ways, like virtually all parasites.

That's like saying you're rooting for the suffering of "uncivilized" people. :shrug:
What? "Civilization" means absolutely any place where humans live together in any kind of community at any level of advancement. Are YOU calling people from New Guinea uncivilized?

No pesticides are involved in wiping out Guinea Worms.
I didn't say anything about pesticides.

[sun]

I never thought that this simple "good news" story would turn into this.

I am with Ben, he said,
"Without modern medicine "interfering with the natural order" I would be dead twice."

Ben is not alone, "interfering with the natural order" also may have saved me, more than once..I think what the Carter Foundation has done is something wonderful..Those that want to believe otherwise, can. It is their right to their opinion..But I wonder how they would feel if they lived in Africa, and had those worms crawling, out of them, or knew someone who did..Would they want it prevented if it could be? If someone was there to help stop it, would they accept it? This is not some sort of joke, or game to play logical arguements of absurdity...This is something real, that has improved life for millions of people..
...If anyone at this forum gets bacterial pneumonia, and the doctor prescribes an antibiotic, well ,it will be "interfering with the natural order of things" to kill the poor bacterial pneumonia..After all, it has a right to live and reproduce...
Bacterial pneumonia in most cases is completely curable...They have developed some very strong and new antibiotics to deal with it,(10 to 12 dollars a pill I might add) because it naturally develops resistence, so they need to find new ones that kill the bacteria...Or would you rather have it the other way? If you get bacterial pneumonia, let us see how you feel about this subject then. Ok?

[Scythemantis]

I never said it wasn't great for people, just that I hate it. I can't bear the thought of any animal going extinct for any reason due to humankind.

And no, I'm not vegetarian. Hell, a lot of animals would also disappear if we weren't breeding them to eat.

[shoujoaifan]

From the sound of it, the only time the worm isn't inside a human body is the larve that they spew out when someone dunks their body in the water. OTHERWISE they're just tiny things in water and flea.

So unless the mature worms are eatern by animals somehow, they don't affect the food chain.

As for natural selection?

Seeing how these guys rarely, if ever, kill someone (the eye thing sounds very dangerous), and they seem to be able affect ANYONE, thus there is NO gene or whatever for a human to be "resistant" to them, natural selection would NOT happen.




In short, unless the article left something out, the worms provide NOTHING to the environment. Aside from what might be only a few farmers who might starve to death if they can't tend to their crops due to the pain, there is NO benefit to the environment, no food chain link, no natural selection, no NOTHING.

I realize this might sound cold, at least to the worms, but I have to agree: UNLESS the environment is screwed by getting rid of a few worms, I say do it.

I am all for keeping as much of the environment as possible, but then diseases like smallpox and polio are 'natural'. The extreme opposite is HIV, which was ONLY in animals before it got into humans who intruded into the jungles, so IRONICALLY it would be returning things to normal if we can find a way to eradicate HIV.

Hell, smallpox, polio, and HIV probably do more GOOD for natural selection than worms that rarely, if ever kill. I remember in the news of a man who has had sex with HIV-positive people and didn't know it at the time, but didn't get it, and scientists are probably still trying to figure out how his body resisted it (something to do with his cells being abnormal, so the HIV virus couldn't latch on to infect).




While humans continue to make the same mistakes over and over and over, I'm sure the scientists thought this through. MAYBE that one option of killing the fleas, which is only ONE of their options, might not be good for the food chain-

-but otherwise, UNLESS they're going to pour chlorine in the pools, cement them, and organize sycronized swimming, I'm sure we can live without the worms.

..........................................besides, from the actual lethal-most-of-the-time diseases out there, and how resistant strands of bacteria keep popping up from the gene pool, I'm SURE nature and the consequences of medical technology, that even if the worms provided anything, which they don't, that we humans will have our hands dying from a host of other things.





So yeah, I say kill the worms.

If anyone has ethical concerns over wiping out a species of worm that harms humans and does not provide a cornerstone for the environment, then don't worry: Not only do worms have no brains, so we're not even killing thinking animals, I'm sure there'll be scientists who'll save samples for study and/or warfare, like how many governments have preserved, viable strands of polio and smallpox.

IF there is a way to preserve them in nature without harming humans, I'm for it. But otherwise, I don't think humans lives being harmed is worth it for something that wouldn't cause DDT-level disasters in order to get rid of.

[Romanesque]

Uh, I said they STRENGTHEN the gene pool, by weeding out the weak...I knew what you said, you read me backwards.

...and these worms are not human-only.Have a source on that? Nowhere have I ever read about Guinea Worms infecting other species. If they were infecting other species, how would preventing human infection eradicate them?

The life cycle affects many animals in different ways, like virtually all parasites.And yet, I don't think the water fleas will miss food they aren't digesting...

What? "Civilization" means absolutely any place where humans live together in any kind of community at any level of advancement. Are YOU calling people from New Guinea uncivilized?Huh? No people, no Guinea Worm. Surviving away from civilization requires "uncivilized" people (whoever that's supposed to be), for this parasite.

I didn't say anything about pesticides.No, you didn't. We're killing off a species by preventing human infection, here. To wish for their survival is to wish for unnecessary suffering.

Seeing how these guys rarely, if ever, kill someone (the eye thing sounds very dangerous), and they seem to be able affect ANYONE, thus there is NO gene or whatever for a human to be "resistant" to them, natural selection would NOT happen.Rarely, but yes, they can kill... especially if they break while being extracted.

--Romey