Laptop Fun!

[Andy Mancini]

Okay... so I formatted my HP laptop a few days ago. Nothing bad; it just needed a good format and I had some time to kill. Everything is running swimmingly, except for one tiny problem: my internal fan will not stop spinning. It didn't do this before I formatted, and I haven't changed any major settings. And yes, I know about the usage thing. I always make sure to keep my usage down, which made the fan shut off/slow down. It doesn't work that way anymore. It's not a big deal, it's just really annoying. Oh... and while I'm at it, I have one more question: how does one take care of overheating? Every time I run a "high-powered" application such as Beyond TV, my system will freeze after about fifteen minutes. The only way around it, I found, is by running a Honeywell cyclone desk fan as a backup (that is, a fan that is quite literally behind the computer). Any advice? My system specs are below.

HP Pavilion ze4400 (AMD model)
Athlon XP 2200+
1 gig of Corsair 2700 RAM
Four port USB card
Slightly tilted (it was designed to lay flat, but it works best with the Honeywell if it's at an angle) Antec coolpad
40 gig internal hard drive
External 120 gig Iomega hard drive
Audigy NX USB "card"
ADS Instant TV USB tuner
Windows XP, running Service Pack 2 through an upgrade (the disc I ran had Service Pack 1 already on it)

[Stardust]

I don't know much about computers, but as far as overheating I have this little plate that keeps the laptop a little tilted so the air flows better. My little brother got it for me, so I don't know how to obtain one.

Try going to the laptop manufacturer's website and asking your question there. I'm sure they would be much more helpful since that's their expertise. If you have a warranty on your laptop, it's possible the company will send you a box to ship your laptop so they can fix it for free.

[Chad Bonin]

I despise to deter discussion of you dilemma, but I am planning to format my laptop this weekend (never done it in two years).

Well, my friend is actually doing it for me. He's an IT major, so I hope he knows what he's doing.

ANYWAY, can you think of anything you probably wouldn't think of doing before clearing it ou? Like, I have to remember to get my links, codecs, etc. back. If I bring all the same music files back, will a new copy of iTunes keep all my customizations?

[solarflere]

Okay... so I formatted my HP laptop a few days ago. Nothing bad; it just needed a good format and I had some time to kill. Everything is running swimmingly, except for one tiny problem: my internal fan will not stop spinning. It didn't do this before I formatted, and I haven't changed any major settings. And yes, I know about the usage thing. I always make sure to keep my usage down, which made the fan shut off/slow down. It doesn't work that way anymore. It's not a big deal, it's just really annoying. Oh... and while I'm at it, I have one more question: how does one take care of overheating? Every time I run a "high-powered" application such as Beyond TV, my system will freeze after about fifteen minutes. The only way around it, I found, is by running a Honeywell cyclone desk fan as a backup (that is, a fan that is quite literally behind the computer). Any advice? My system specs are below.

HP Pavilion ze4400 (AMD model)
Athlon XP 2200+
1 gig of Corsair 2700 RAM
Four port USB card
Slightly tilted (it was designed to lay flat, but it works best with the Honeywell if it's at an angle) Antec coolpad
40 gig internal hard drive
External 120 gig Iomega hard drive
Audigy NX USB "card"
ADS Instant TV USB tuner
Windows XP, running Service Pack 2 through an upgrade (the disc I ran had Service Pack 1 already on it)
Never use an outside fan for cooling. Because the internal Laptop fan works in the oposite direction. It does not blow the air in, it drags the heat out, and by using an outside fan, you defeat the purpose on the internal one.
Check your motherboard BIOS. It might explain your fan problem since the mobo records the fan speeds and usualy can controll their RPM. And try taking out the battery to stop the fan. Its realy not good that the fan works all the time even if the Laptop is off. As far as cooling, don't do anything special besides keep the dust off, and don't put in a poorly ventilated area.
And prossesors do tend to freese up when they are running or just opening a heavy program.

[Andy Mancini]

ANYWAY, can you think of anything you probably wouldn't think of doing before clearing it ou? Like, I have to remember to get my links, codecs, etc. back. If I bring all the same music files back, will a new copy of iTunes keep all my customizations?
If you have the room, completely copy your iTunes folder over to your backup whatever. Then, before you reinstall iTunes, put the folder in the exact same place it was in before the format. If everything goes right, iTunes will act like nothing has changed. All of your files, playlists, etc. will be there. This method also works for the message logs in MSN Messenger and Yahoo Instant Messenger. I don't know about AOL since I don't use it, but I'm guessing it work the same way there as well.

As for the matter at hand, the fan is not there to cool off the insides. It's there to help the coolpad disperse heat from the bottom of the laptop. HP laptops are notorious for heating issues, and my slightly augmented coolpad (I run it on an AC adapter instead of the USB cord that it came with) just isn't enough sometimes.

[Delia]

I'd make sure the BIOS are updated. I had a major update on my laptop and it involved BIOS and now my fan runs totally differently from what it used to.

[solarflere]

I'd make sure the BIOS are updated. I had a major update on my laptop and it involved BIOS and now my fan runs totally differently from what it used to.
Flashing BIOS is not for ametures. I do it very carefuly, or else your Mobo will be busted.

[Andy Mancini]

Here's the thing: I only had a problem with the "overactive fan" since I formatted. Before the format, it was fine.

[solarflere]

Here's the thing: I only had a problem with the "overactive fan" since I formatted. Before the format, it was fine.
BIOS controls the fans RPM and when it work or not. Its your best bet to find the problem.

[Romanesque]

Never use an outside fan for cooling. Because the internal Laptop fan works in the oposite direction. It does not blow the air in, it drags the heat out, and by using an outside fan, you defeat the purpose on the internal one.Overgeneralization makes for bad advice. :p

While it's important to check how your system is physically configured, outside fans are often exactly what an overheating laptop needs. My laptop, as well as my sister's, vents out the back end, with intakes on the bottom. An external cooler that blows air at the bottom of such a configuration is a great idea, and worked perfectly for my sister's computer, which had been locking up daily due to excessive heat.

Check your motherboard BIOS. It might explain your fan problem since the mobo records the fan speeds and usualy can controll their RPM.In my sister's case, the fan was already running at full speed, all the time, which wasn't good for the fan, either. If the fan is running on high at all times because of the processor, turning the fan down by any means is not an advisable solution.

And prossesors do tend to freese up when they are running or just opening a heavy program.I know it happens, but it shouldn't if the processor is running properly.

--Romey

[solarflere]

Overgeneralization makes for bad advice. :p

While it's important to check how your system is physically configured, outside fans are often exactly what an overheating laptop needs. My laptop, as well as my sister's, vents out the back end, with intakes on the bottom. An external cooler that blows air at the bottom of such a configuration is a great idea, and worked perfectly for my sister's computer, which had been locking up daily due to excessive heat. Which causes enormous dust buildup in your rig. No company will recomend you to use fan as a cooling device. Infact, some advise against it.

In my sister's case, the fan was already running at full speed, all the time, which wasn't good for the fan, either. If the fan is running on high at all times because of the processor, turning the fan down by any means is not an advisable solution.I was not talking about lowering the RPM, I was refering to its diognastic options. The BIOS will usualy report a problem with the fan if there is one. Some advanced BIOS settings let your fans run non stop as part of a server config, even if the system is shut down. Checking the BIOS should be step 1.
Besides, its better to modify a system than use an external devise. I prefer, Water Cooling for PCs.

I know it happens, but it shouldn't if the processor is running properly.

--Romey When a prossesor reaches its maximum capability (100%) it will freese up a system no matter how powerful it is. My rig has a Pentium D 3.2 Dual Core. And when i start up a video editing program suchas Avid, when its scaning all the codecs and plugins, it will freese up to about 30sec after it finishes the scan. Its Normal.
Trough all my time working in the IT field, I was never acused for giving "bad advice"

[Romanesque]

Which causes enormous dust buildup in your rig. No company will recomend you to use fan as a cooling device. Infact, some advise against it.All the external fans are doing is supplying outside air when it's not otherwise getting there fast enough. A simple laptop cooling pad brings the airflow up to where it needs to be for the internal fans to do their job venting it out. Even if there weren't intakes on the bottom of the system, a pad can significantly cool the case, still getting the job done.

The simple process of moving household air through a system is guaranteed to deposit dust, and air cooling's an inescapable fact of life. If the fan isn't doing its job, nothing else is wrong with the system, and modding the system is out of the question, a cooling pad is about all you can do for an overheating laptop.

What laptop manufacturer is going to tell you that their products can't cool themselves properly, anyway? A few are obviously going to advise against a cooling pad if their systems vent out the bottom, but... why not reverse the pad's fans, then? Problem solved.

I was not talking about lowering the RPM, I was refering to its diognastic options. The BIOS will usualy report a problem with the fan if there is one. Some advanced BIOS settings let your fans run non stop as part of a server config, even if the system is shut down. Checking the BIOS should be step 1.No such problem in my sister's case. Sometimes the processor simply runs hot and doesn't have sufficient cooling. It happens.

Besides, its better to modify a system than use an external devise. I prefer, Water Cooling for PCs.I'd like to see someone seriously try to use a water cooled laptop. :p For desktops, water cooling's fun (and worthy of bragging rights), but it's an expensive solution and not always practical.

When a prossesor reaches its maximum capability (100%) it will freese up a system no matter how powerful it is.Not sure where you got that information from. In fact, I'm so downright baffled that, out of honest curiosity, I hope you have something to refer me to. Unless I'm completely misunderstanding you... a processor should be perfectly capable of running at full load, under normal conditions.

My rig has a Pentium D 3.2 Dual Core. And when i start up a video editing program suchas Avid, when its scaning all the codecs and plugins, it will freese up to about 30sec after it finishes the scan. Its Normal.If by "normal" you mean "common," I won't question you any further. I don't have a lot of experience with how well the latest processors run. However, I can't see how that can possibly be "normal" in the sense of how it's supposed to operate. There's got to be an issue with the system or the program in question, somewhere.

--Romey

[Sampo]

Here's the thing: I only had a problem with the "overactive fan" since I formatted. Before the format, it was fine.
Odd while reading your post, something kept bugging me. It must be something that was missed during the installation procedure. So I went Googling and found an interesting article.

This article explains another problem, a "shutdown problem". I think it has to do with computers not turning off or just causes it to hang when the user tries to shutdown.

Anyway, the problem is that the Windows XP installation is not detecting the BIOS properly when it tries to find out if your BIOS supports ACPI - Advanced Configuration and Power Interface. In other words, Windows XP is ignoring your BIOS screaming "Can I turn the fan off now?!" Also when you changing your settings in Windows, via the power management system, it does nothing since ACPI is not working right.

Here is the link (http://www.theeldergeek.com/shutdown_issues_in_xp.htm) Info from The Elder Geek website. During the install procedure there is a hidden option of hitting F5. This allows you to tell Windows XP if you BIOS supports ACPI.

I know trying to relate a "shutdown problem" to your fan problem seems really odd. But I hope that helps any. :sweat:

Uh for your overheating problem. Here is another thing I found while googling. Link (http://www2.geek.com/discus/messages/6874/10199.html?1090502069) Look for GD101's post. It involves... well using a vacuum to remove any dust that collected in your laptop.

[solarflere]

No such problem in my sister's case. Sometimes the processor simply runs hot and doesn't have sufficient cooling. It happens.

Not sure where you got that information from. In fact, I'm so downright baffled that, out of honest curiosity, I hope you have something to refer me to. Unless I'm completely misunderstanding you... a processor should be perfectly capable of running at full load, under normal conditions.

If by "normal" you mean "common," I won't question you any further. I don't have a lot of experience with how well the latest processors run. However, I can't see how that can possibly be "normal" in the sense of how it's supposed to operate. There's got to be an issue with the system or the program in question, somewhere.
I must ask, how long have you been working with computers? Have you actually put one together? Do you know how a possessor works? I get the feeling that you don't know hardware too well.
A processor is not designed to work 100% all the time. If your CPU works 100% all the time, its time to upgrade. When a Processor works 100%, it will die prematurely. Picture yourself walking around everywhere carrying weight on you as much as you can carry, all the time. Not taking any load off. How long are you going to last? When a program does rendering, or scanning something, it uses a lot of processing power. Newest programs on the market are designed to use 100% of power during such scans. They will use 100% even if you upgrade to a stronger processor. The faster the processor, the faster the scan and rendering goes. The only thing will change, is how fast it does the scan. Since the scan is not going to take so long, it’s ok. But a CPU is not going to work at 100% capacity all the time.


I'd like to see someone seriously try to use a water cooled laptop. :p For desktops, water cooling's fun (and worthy of bragging rights), but it's an expensive solution and not always practical.WCing works, and its very practical. "Bragging rights", is that what you think, who needs them. Its a performance enhancer, thats all that matters. If there is a more practical device to cool my CPU than an aluminum/copper heatsink and fan, I will take it. And some after market fan heatsinks can cost as much or even more than WCing.

[Romanesque]

I must ask, how long have you been working with computers? Have you actually put one together? Do you know how a possessor works? I get the feeling that you don't know hardware too well.My first computer was an old C64, what's that tell you? Sure, it was already a second hand system when I got it, but I was pretty darn young.

I don't do it for a living, but I've built at least four systems from the ground up. I've dismantled, cannibalized, and salvaged at least a dozen other computers, many of which are as old as I am. My room's littered with parts. I've been repairing and upgrading other people's systems for years, too. I'm not a novice.

My formal computer education isn't lacking, either. I'm three classes away from my Computer Science degree. Two of those I'm retaking because I had to withdraw for medical reasons, and one's just a US History class.

A processor is not designed to work 100% all the time. If your CPU works 100% all the time, its time to upgrade. When a Processor works 100%, it will die prematurely.Now you're talking about something different than before. You're right that consumer grade processors aren't meant to run at full capacity at all times. Such a situation is likely to cause errors which could lock up or crash the system. For other applications, however, a higher grade processor which isn't running at full load at all times is either running inefficiently or malfunctioning. Nothing in a correct processor design dictates that it should lock up upon reaching full load.

Newest programs on the market are designed to use 100% of power during such scans. They will use 100% even if you upgrade to a stronger processor.You a programmer? On any modern, general purpose operating system, no user process should be able to take full control. The process schedulers should be balancing the load between processes, so no program should be able to use 100% of the processor until finishing. In real world situations, an overdemanding process can still seriously degrade interactivity, but unless it's buggy, nothing should freeze.

WCing works, and its very practical.Of course it works, but its practicality varies...

"Bragging rights", is that what you think, who needs them.I didn't say that the only reason for water cooling was for bragging rights, just that it's worthy of bragging rights. It's not a common cooling solution, and it requires a certain degree of knowledge, experience, and extra work to set up. It's a craft in of itself, and if the end results weren't worth showing off, there wouldn't be enthusiasts drooling over other folks' setups.

Its a performance enhancer, thats all that matters.Extra cooling doesn't enhance performance all that much. Unless you deliberately overclock, your performance will remain about the same. The extra cooling can certainly enhance stability and reliability, though. Water cooling's also great for noise relief.

If there is a more practical device to cool my CPU than an aluminum/copper heatsink and fan, I will take it. And some after market fan heatsinks can cost as much or even more than WCing.Maybe I'm not looking hard enough, but I've never seen a high end heatsink and fan combination that couldn't be obtained for under $80. Most configurations can easily be found for $60 or less. Find me a complete water cooling solution in that price range, and I'll shut up... and maybe even buy it. :sweat:

--Romey

[solarflere]

I don't do it for a living, but I've built at least four systems from the ground up. I've dismantled, cannibalized, and salvaged at least a dozen other computers, many of which are as old as I am. My room's littered with parts. I've been repairing and upgrading other people's systems for years, too. I'm not a novice. Ok, to be honest, I have lost count on how many systems I have put together, modified, Overclocked and demolished. It’s been way too many. I beliave that you underestimate my IT abilities.



My formal computer education isn't lacking, either. I'm three classes away from my Computer Science degree. Two of those I'm retaking because I had to withdraw for medical reasons, and one's just a US History class. I am taking CIS classes but it’s nothing I don't know already. I get all my knowledge from first hand experience.


Now you're talking about something different than before. You're right that consumer grade processors aren't meant to run at full capacity at all times. Such a situation is likely to cause errors which could lock up or crash the system. For other applications, however, a higher grade processor which isn't running at full load at all times is either running inefficiently or malfunctioning. Nothing in a correct processor design dictates that it should lock up upon reaching full load. It will slow down extremely if the program is asking more than it can produce. Virtual memory will be all but gone at that point.

You a programmer? On any modern, general purpose operating system, no user process should be able to take full control. The process schedulers should be balancing the load between processes, so no program should be able to use 100% of the processor until finishing. In real world situations, an overdemanding process can still seriously degrade interactivity, but unless it's buggy, nothing should freeze. I am a coder/white collar hacker. That should tell you something. I do scripting and networking. Hardware is a second nature for me. I know all the latest tech like Dual Core CPU, LGA 775 socket mobo, SLI and Crossfire GPU configs... ect. You should do more research. There are some programs such as Pinnacle Liquid Edition Pro that are designed to use 100% of your CPU at all times during a render process. The faster the CPU, the faster the rendering, but it’s always 100% load. That is where a Dual Core comes in handy. The program will use only one core, and I can run a separate independent process without interfering with the first on the other core.

Of course it works, but its practicality varies...

I didn't say that the only reason for water cooling was for bragging rights, just that it's worthy of bragging rights. It's not a common cooling solution, and it requires a certain degree of knowledge, experience, and extra work to set up. It's a craft in of itself, and if the end results weren't worth showing off, there wouldn't be enthusiasts drooling over other folks' setups. Drooling over WC is for armatures, now WC with antifreeze is nothing new, and a common knowledge. I actually pride myself on being able to Over Clock most systems by about 20% on RAM and CPU without any significant side effects. Now that takes skills and a great amount of knowledge.


Extra cooling doesn't enhance performance all that much. Unless you deliberately overclock, your performance will remain about the same. The extra cooling can certainly enhance stability and reliability, though. Water cooling's also great for noise relief. I have found out that antifreeze cooling can lower your CPU/HDD temp buy about 5-6 degrees. That is a significant change.


Maybe I'm not looking hard enough, but I've never seen a high end heatsink and fan combination that couldn't be obtained for under $80. Most configurations can easily be found for $60 or less. Find me a complete water cooling solution in that price range, and I'll shut up... and maybe even buy it. :sweat:Make friends with newegg.com. While its true that most WC are more expensive, you can find some for less. here (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835124005)is one for $90.

[Delthayre]

Yeah, well, I killed seven with one blow.

[Romanesque]

Yeah, well, I killed seven with one blow.Pfft, that's weak. I mock your petty body count of flies; I kill homeless people for fun and profit. I even run daily tours for deprived country children, so they may share the joy of keeping the streets clean from unwanted lives.

Yeah, this thing's getting kinda silly. Humor me for one more post, though... :gir:

I beliave that you underestimate my IT abilities.All I wanted to question was your laptop cooling advice, as well as this bit: "When a prossesor reaches its maximum capability (100%) it will freese up a system no matter how powerful it is."

It will slow down extremely if the program is asking more than it can produce. Virtual memory will be all but gone at that point.You're mixing up a number of very distinct performance issues. Consumption of available memory doesn't directly follow from a process hogging the cpu. Maybe we're just having a serious communication problem, but I can't see where this discussion is going or why it's going where it is.

Make friends with newegg.com.Jeez, who's underestimating who? :p

While its true that most WC are more expensive, you can find some for less. here (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835124005)is one for $90.Surprisingly low priced for water cooling, but it's still a lot more than most high-end air cooling solutions.

--Romey

[solarflere]

You're mixing up a number of very distinct performance issues. Consumption of available memory doesn't directly follow from a process hogging the cpu. Maybe we're just having a serious communication problem, but I can't see where this discussion is going or why it's going where it is.
--RomeyI am trying to get you to understand the latest tech here. the newest programs such as Pinnacle Liquid I mentioned, use up 100% of the CPU whire they are in the rendering process. No matter how fast a CPU gets it will always use 100% of it. Here is a little experiment, I want you to do. Open up the latest Adome Photoshop (I hope you at least have the CS) and then while its reading all of your fonts and plug-ins try to do any other prosses. Like I don't know, start the calculator program for example. Your CPU will freese up for a bit (half a min maybe) unless you have Dual Core CPU. then the calc.exe will use the second independant core without slowing your photoshop down.

Jeez, who's underestimating who? :p

Surprisingly low priced for water cooling, but it's still a lot more than most high-end air cooling solutions.Yea, there are low priced WC out there, just like super expensive heatsinks/fans. It takes all kinds. I was well aware that you knew about newegg.com ;), I was just messing with you.:cool:

[Romanesque]

I am trying to get you to understand the latest tech here.I'm leaning more toward this being one big misunderstanding than me being behind on the tech. ;-)

The newest programs such as Pinnacle Liquid I mentioned, use up 100% of the CPU whire they are in the rendering process. No matter how fast a CPU gets it will always use 100% of it.Ok, I think you mean to say that it bumps the system's cpu usage to 100%, not that the program alone is using 100% of the CPU. You're loose with your wording, I've been guilty of that before, myself.

Like I don't know, start the calculator program for example. Your CPU will freese up for a bit (half a min maybe) unless you have Dual Core CPU. then the calc.exe will use the second independant core without slowing your photoshop down.Odd. I've experienced the routine slowdown during the launch of large applications, but never a total freeze, and certainly nowhere near as long as 30 seconds, even on older hardware.

--Romey

[solarflere]

I'm leaning more toward this being one big misunderstanding than me being behind on the tech. ;-)lol

Odd. I've experienced the routine slowdown during the launch of large applications, but never a total freeze, and certainly nowhere near as long as 30 seconds, even on older hardware.

--Romeya slowdown when its running Photoshop alone, but try to onen up another program while thet one is opening. Your CPU will freese up.

[Romanesque]

a slowdown when its running Photoshop alone, but try to onen up another program while thet one is opening. Your CPU will freese up.No, I am talking about slowdown while opening. Even when opening CS on a relatively ancient 750Mhz machine, I'm seeing cpu usage no higher than 90%. Opening another program during that time doesn't freeze anything. Heck, I've run at 100% usage for extended periods, without any freezes, quite often.

--Romey

[solarflere]

No, I am talking about slowdown while opening. Even when opening CS on a relatively ancient 750Mhz machine, I'm seeing cpu usage no higher than 90%. Opening another program during that time doesn't freeze anything. Heck, I've run at 100% usage for extended periods, without any freezes, quite often.

--RomeyI have a feeling we again misunderstanding each other. :sweat: by freeze up I mean that the PC will be non responsive for a short while (especialy when you click with your mouse on the opening Photoshop), but once it finishes reading the fonts and plugins, normal operation resumes.

[Mog]

Ya, the way you said it was like the OS would lock up with the user being unable to even move the mouse. But after explaining it, you're right. I can think of numerous programs that do something like that for 4-5 seconds, and I can see a video editing or graphics program doing it for upwards of 30 seconds.

Back to the topic at hand, that being laptops. Look around for programs that allow you to modify heat/fan control like ATItool for ATI cards. Being a pre-built system, I'm sure you can find one from the manufacturer or something.

You could also try underclocking the cpu to keep the fan under control.

Do not flash the mobo bios unless you really know what you're doing. It's a quick way to turn a $100+ piece of hardware into scrap.

[Romanesque]

I have a feeling we again misunderstanding each other. :sweat: by freeze up I mean that the PC will be non responsive for a short while (especialy when you click with your mouse on the opening Photoshop), but once it finishes reading the fonts and plugins, normal operation resumes.Nah, I understood that part just fine... at least as far as your last post was concerned :p

--Romey

[solarflere]

Nah, I understood that part just fine... at least as far as your last post was concerned :p

--RomeyFinaly!!! :anime: But to resume the post that we sidetracked from, that prosses is normal. (The one I described on my last post). And no amount of increased cooling will fix that "slowdown:p" of the CPU.

[Romanesque]

Finaly!!! :anime: But to resume the post that we sidetracked from, that prosses is normal. (The one I described on my last post).Right.

And no amount of increased cooling will fix that "slowdown:p" of the CPU.Quite right.

That took long enough, eh? :p

--Romey

[solarflere]

Right.

Quite right.

That took long enough, eh? :p

--Romey
Yea, just two pages, its not too bad compared to our drug discussion. lol :anime: