Lost "The Other 48 Days" Talkback (Spoilers) [Archive]

Youko Recca

11-16-2005, 10:21 PM

Great episode. The demeanor of this was just perfect, really lets you realize how bad the tails had it. My word...nine people just got snatched up like it was nothing. Find that amazing, man, that's nine people. Really want to know what happens to them once they're dragged off. Funny how all the "others" they did get, winded up getting killed. I was never really ON Ana as much as you guys, but I kind of saw why y'all felt the way you did. After seeing this, I'm a little more lenient on her though. And Goodwin, wow. Even though I should have, I didn't see him being the mole until he snapped Nathan's neck in two. That talk between him and Ana was something else. Probally the best scene in the episode in my opinion. That explains the impaled body we saw from a couple episodes back also. Shame I was paranoid on the whole shooting incident though.

Sandoz

11-16-2005, 10:30 PM

I know I'm in a very tiny minority, but I like Ana Lucia. I can understand why people don't like her character, but she really can't be blamed for something like Boone's death. She clearly made mistakes, but it's easy for us to point fingers since we know what was really going on. I know I wouldn't be quick to believe there were other survivors. Meh, I can't wait to see her interact with Jack.

Very intense episode, though I feel a little gipped since the "extended" part of the episode was composed of clips we've already seen.

Goodwin was really creepy. I don't know what to make of the list, or the fact that the Others took only "nice" people...it seems to connect to the "once you overcome your character flaw, you die" rule that Lost has adopted. :p

And Boone! I was so happy to hear his voice. To bad that's really, really going to be last we hear from him.

And Mr. Echo is my favorite Tailie. And even though Libby has been cleared of suspicion for being the 'Ethan' of the group... she came off as very manipulative in this episode. I get a bad vibe from her. I had my suspicions about Libby before this ep., but I don't think she's a traitor or anything like that. Considering how adamant the tailies are about staying in pairs/groups now, I don't see how she'd have an opportunity to meet up with The Others, especially with Ana Lucia being so untrusting and trigger-happy.

Samhaine

11-16-2005, 10:50 PM

I wasn't that excited about this episode coming in. Honestly, I think the show was already too crowded by the end of last season, and this year, with the other survivors (Tailies is such a horrible word) and Desmond and Danielle and focusing only on a few characters, it's even worse. Not only are many characters being pretty ignored when we're on "our" side of the island, now an episode is coming up that is entirely devoted to characters I really don't care about.

And my mind isn't changed. I think I actually care even less about Ana Lucia now than I did before. But hey, Sawyer's been showing more and more that all he really wants to do, despite what he vocalizes, is be a hero, we need somebody to really just hate. Ana's it now.

Eko I like. Bernard, well, I want him there just for Rose. Because Rose rules.

But like I said, not really much face time for the survivors we spent a year focusing on, unless you're Jack, Locke, or Kate (Micheal and Jin and Sawyer to an extent, but not nearly as much as the former trio). I almost don't care that Shannon's dead, because how much has she really been around this year? I'm not going to even notice it!

Oh, and Shannon died only a week after her brother. It's felt like more time has passed than that (ten episodes, I think). Just saying.

And the montage was completely unnecessary. Espcially when the majority of it was events from last week. Sigh. I thought the show was picking up last week, and I hope it can start to regain steam once everyone's back togetehr again, but judging from the previews, things aren't looking up.

Temple Fugate

11-16-2005, 10:53 PM

Horray, it happened, I have finally started liking Ana-Lucia. I guess I just couldn't cope with her paranoia and hostility until I actually saw what she and the tail survivors had been through. That scene with Goodwyn especially revealed that she is paranoid for the right reasons. When she gave him the knife, I got nervous, but she came up with a way to get it back. That was probably the moment I started caring about her character.

Next episode will be interesting. What am I saying, almost every episode has been interesting.

I missed Goodwin not being wet, but I got hung up on Nathan being from Canada... Nice red herring.;) From that I got the impression that Nathan was a Slider.

Bernard's voice on the radio didn't match up with the emotion from the original scene in 1x19. The replay Boone got on his end was more of a shout, not a perplexed mutter.
It's great that we finally know that it was Bernard that was talking to Boone on the radio....but stupid Ana....technically...you could say she helped "killed" Boone. If only they had stayed on their a lil longer...:sad: The plane was already about to crash when Boone turned on the radio. No matter how long he had stayed on the line, the next time he would have moved to get off the plane, it would have gone down. This is one thing we can't blame Ana for.

THE FLASHBACK - I loved the scene where 8-year-old Ana impales her friend's Stretch Armstrong doll just because she thought he was having an affair with her Barbie. It really shows us the trauma that poor woman experienced. The rest of her flashback was crap and totally unnecessary, just like every other flashback ever. [EDIT: That was a joke. :ack: ]

INSTANCES OF THE NUMBERS - I'm assuming 4 people would have been taken if Mr. Eko hadn't fought back on the first night.
Donald was the 4th death for the Tail-enders. Mr. Eko resumed talking on Day 42. [EDIT: 41. Never mind.]

Lost 2x07: The Other 48 Days - 4 8 15 16 23 42

Samhaine

11-16-2005, 10:59 PM

We now know who Cindy was and why Shannon got shot.I'd go so far as to say the episode provided no real insight into who Cindy was other than she didn't remember Nathan from the plane, and she's good with faces (apparantly not). She just stood around, mostly, just like last week. Only there still isn't any reason to care she got taken. She should've been wearing red. It would've been a great nod to what she actually was. And if they were taking them in groups before, why only Cindy, and why now? I realize that they're not going after Eko again, for good reason, but Bernard's a nice guy, why does he get to stay?

Was there really any doubt as to why (and this is only IF) Ana Lucia shot Shannon? Ana is rash and fairly stupid. She saw a flash of something and shot at it. But wait. We couldn't see them last week when they took Cindy. This week, we got plenty of glimpses. Yes, they were fast, but we still saw faces and they were able to kill at least three of them. So okay, maybe there's cause for shooting. But last week, they all made it a point to note how quick and hard to spot these people were. Basically, the continuity doesn't really hold up, and there's only been a week between episodes.

Mr. Eko resumed talking on Day 42.I thought it was Day 41, the same day Bernard (who last season sounded exactly like Boone, and yes, you're right, there seemed to be, well, more life behind the "We're the survivors" line, although it sounded more like "There were no survivors" last season, so I guess that's a definite answer there) spoke with Boone. Maybe I missed a day marker. I'm not doubting that I did, because I don't remember that flashback you mention at all and I never left the room while the show was on.

Stewie

11-16-2005, 11:07 PM

So that explains why Ana-Lucia is so disagreeable. Oh wait, it doesn't. She's just as irrational as ever. I could buy into the expected "she's traumatized" "she's under stress" excuses but I don't. No one else one the island freaked out as much as she did. No one else does what they do out of spite. Every decision she makes and every action she takes is designed solely to be contrarian.

She's not unlikeable to the viewer because of what she does. She's unlikeable because she is a tool for creating tension. At least Sawyer pretended to be all about himself (But we all know he's a big softie. Cute guys always are). Anu isn't about anything. At this point she's more of a threat to the survivors than The Others.

I'll try not to let the previews for next week affect my opinion of her. If I did, I would hate her more (pre-emptive strike against Sayid indeed.) But as Fone Bone reminds us "Don't trust previews." Right Fone?

Very disappointing. Though I can't fault the staff too much. They had an entire season to develop the characters we already know. How can Ana be explained in 48 minutes.

The opening was very cool. The effects weren't great. I don't like the scale of the tail section as it crashed. But still, very cool. The crash sequence felt just like the pilot. Frantic and crazy and exhilarating wrapped in chocolate. Then it ended after a minute and a half. Like having the covers ripped off of you on a cold Monday morning. But again, it's 48 days in one episode. I can't blame anyone. I wish they had made this a two-parter, but I'll make do.

Part of me thinks "These people really did have it rough. No food. No water. No Box O'Knives. No Great White Hunter." Then I think, that's almost a good excuse. But these survivors did seem to spend an awful lot of there time not moving. Not finding what they needed. Not working together. And I place the blame squarely on Ana. Compare the two camp leaders. Jack and Ana. Both had smart capable people around them. Where Jack used the good ideas that the group came up with and steered everyone toward safety, Ana-Lucia seems angry at everything (yet nothing.) Her first plan was to leave the beach. Admittedly, even without hindsight, it's a good idea. But it's not a fully formed one. As Nathan pointed out, how would they move the wounded and the children. And where exactly would they go? If Jack were there, maybe he could have convinced Master Jedi Echo to scout the area. Or gotten everyone organized into some sort of defense. Ana-Lucia left everyone digging in the sand for food.

I'm almost to the conclusion that Ana-Lucia is the Charlie of the Tailes. Angry enough to seem powerful, stupid enough to think she's useful, yet clearly a hindrance to anyone that can't afford mistakes. And these people spent all there good luck surviving.

All in all, it was an "okay" episode. It's main faults (if I leave out Ana-Lucia) can be forgiven for all this story being forced into one episode. The opening effects were weak, but well used. I really disliked the music over the ending montage. But otherwise, this okay.
That was a good mislead, pointing us at Nathan...Ethan. From Canada. Had me thinking for a minute there.

So, what did Goodwin tell us?
-The Others may see what they're doing as good for the survivors.
-They only took the "good" people? What was his exact line about not taking Nathan?
-They must have known about the crash ahead of time. Or short of that, they were expecting someone to someday show up on the island (even if they didn't know about they crash). They had spies on location and waiting to infiltrate as soon as the plane crashed.

THE FLASHBACK - I loved the scene where 8-year-old Ana impales her friend's Stretch Armstrong doll just because she thought he was having an affair with her Barbie. It really shows us the trauma that poor woman experienced. The rest of her flashback was crap and totally unnecessary, just like every other flashback ever.What flashback?

Conekiller

11-16-2005, 11:10 PM

It's not Lent, the crash is said to have happened the day the show premeired, which would place it in the fall (late September IIRC), Lent is before Easter, which is late April/early May. I think he was jsut waiting for her to drop the the tough chick facade (which is none too convincing, just look at Rodriguez's eyes, no matter how hard she tries to look sypmathetic, she fails completely)

Hatter

11-16-2005, 11:15 PM

Stewie

11-16-2005, 11:27 PM

Oh wait, I think Temple is being facetious.

Terminatah

11-16-2005, 11:47 PM

http://www.thehansofoundation.org/images/ltr_press.gif

-Terminatah

silverwings

11-16-2005, 11:53 PM

They only took the "good" people? What was his exact line about not taking Nathan?
"Nathan was a bad person."

Something like that. He had a weird smile on his face when it said it and I found the line rather... childish. It's like a justification a child would use. I wonder if that's significant?

Stewie

11-17-2005, 12:17 AM

http://www.thehansofoundation.org/images/ltr_press.gif

-TerminatahIt ends up being the monkey in the beginning of 2001: A Space Odyssey that learns how to use tools.

Martianinvader

11-17-2005, 01:24 AM

I know I'm in a very tiny minority, but I like Ana Lucia.You've got me in that group, though I only joined your side after this episode. Now that I've seen her story, I have to wonder why more people here haven't figured out that without Ana-Lucia those few survivors wouldn't even be there. She's sharp and quick, and can defend herself like nobody else. Plus, as revealed by the crying scene, she isn't a robot.

I thought this was one of the best Losts ever, and it would seriously make me consider buying a Season 2 DVD set for this one alone. And no space-padding flashbacks of home!

*looks up* Experiment 626? SHAMELESS DISNEY PLUG!! Ana-Lucia would hack the head off the writer of that......

ManicWebb

11-17-2005, 01:40 AM

THE FLASHBACK - I loved the scene where 8-year-old Ana impales her friend's Stretch Armstrong doll just because she thought he was having an affair with her Barbie. It really shows us the trauma that poor woman experienced. The rest of her flashback was crap and totally unnecessary, just like every other flashback ever.
What the F? I didn't see that scene.

I like how the writers gave us a red herring with Nathan. Rhymes with Ethan? From Canada? Coincidence? I think... uh... yes, it is a coincidence.

Well, at least now we know who the teddy bear belonged to when a group of Others passed by Eko and Jin. I wonder why Eko didn't mention anything to Ana-Lucia about just seeing the children. She probably wouldn't have been so quick to pull the trigger, if she had known they were nearby.

Temple Fugate

11-17-2005, 01:52 PM

Oh wait, I think Temple is being facetious.I was. Sorry, I should have made the "flashback" more bizarre to make it obvious. I always put the Flashback and Numbers sections in the review, so why break with tradition?

Well, at least now we know who the teddy bear belonged to when a group of Others passed by Eko and Jin. I wonder why Eko didn't mention anything to Ana-Lucia about just seeing the children. She probably wouldn't have been so quick to pull the trigger, if she had known they were nearby.I got the impression--and still do--that the girl they saw was Rosseau's daughter. The Others might have given her the teddy after swiping the children.

I don't think it's Lent. I think Mr. Echo was using his silence to meditate on killing the Others at the camp on the first night. The number 40 is prominent in Christianity, so that might have been his inspiration. (And you're right, Samhaine, it was Day 41. I thought the first abductions were made on the second day, just very early in the morning.)

Love the continuity of Jin's broken handcuff. I didn't notice until watching the DVD commentary that he has always been wearing it.

Stewie

11-17-2005, 02:05 PM

I was. Sorry, I should have made the "flashback" more bizarre to make it obvious. I always put the Flashback and Numbers sections in the review, so why break with tradition?Oh no, we knew it was a joke. We were just playing along. Yes, playing along.

I got the impression--and still do--that the girl they saw was Rosseau's daughter. The Others might have given her the teddy after swiping the children.I'm wondering if Ana killed Alex on the beach. Wouldn't that be perfect? Ana has killed just about every other person she met. Now Rosseau (Alex), The Others (Goodwin and Alex), Sayid, Jack and maybe the other survivors (Shannon) can hate her for killing someone they cared about.

Bearpod91

11-17-2005, 04:07 PM

Wow...so many things taken from saying this. Well I just loved this. It's amazing that now I think of the Others as a type of people that aren't actaully bad but killing the two guys in the beginning was wierd.

A list?! Damn that's creepy.

Hatter

11-17-2005, 04:14 PM

I really do like how they planted the red herring for Nathan, with his "I'm from Canada" line... makes you think, "Oh, he must be an Other, Canada must be their fallback line"...
Guess this one really was Canadian. :p

witness

11-17-2005, 05:28 PM

I missed the last few minutes of this episode! I had forgotten that they were going to extend the running time for it and was unprepared. I managed to tape everything until Jin was rescued from the beach and Mr. Echo uncovered the blindfold and asked Jin who he was. Can someone please tell me what happened after that? Try to be as specific as possible.

I figured that Goodwyn was the bad guy. Even though Nathan's character was disagreeable, there was definately something off about Goodwyn's character. Obviously, it is known why. This episode was very good at making Ana percieved in a better light. I do agree with people's comments about her final talk with Goodwyn to be a powerful and captivating scene. Though Ana is now a more likable character, she's still on my naughty list. At least she is now tolerable. This episode, however has left me pondering a lot of questions. I know that some of these are unanswerable at this point, but feel free to speculate and think about these questions. I'd love to hear some answers to them, so I may perhaps get a better understanding of this episode.

The Dharma symbol that they found was of an arrow. What, if any, it the significance of that? Why did this bunker have what looked like a wooden door, yet the hatch that was found was made of metal? Why did this bunker not have a whole lot of equipment/supplies?

What do you think the "Others" mean by taking the good people? Are they good for the "Others" for joining ranks? For experiments? Is it possible that Nathan had found something out and was considered by Goodwyn as a bad person? Was Goodwyn actually an "Other" or did he just see an opportunity to defect towards a stronger ally? Do the "Others" take people because they are decided as unable to survive on their own in the jungle?

Last year, Walt was percieved as a child with possible supernatural abilities. Is there any related reason that the people in tonight's episode were taken? (I know they didn't show anyone's backstory yet, so this possibility is pretty much unknown right now.)

With those two Hanso Foundation letters in this thread, is it possible that the "Others" have had their lives extended? (and can move at a different speed)

Spider-Man

11-17-2005, 05:38 PM

silverwings

11-17-2005, 05:46 PM

I found this description online of the cut scene that was featured on Good Morning America this morning:

A large wooden crate washes up on the beach and Ana Lucias crew open it up. They are all hoping it had food in it, but instead it appears to be a shipment of boomerangs. Goodwin looks surprised.
Interesting. I guess that what's she and everyone else was tying to their sticks in the episode? :confused:

Anyone catch what Eko was carving into his stick? I can't remember if we got a clear shot of it or not..

ZeroFate

11-17-2005, 05:48 PM

"[Jin hears something, and sees something moving. A boar charges and knocks Jin over, leaving him rolling down a hill. He stops near a dead body with a stake sticking out of its chest.]

EKO [entering]: His name was Goodwin.

JIN: Others?

[Eko nods.]"

When Jin asks about the Others, Eko nods meaning that he was one of the Others, but we all thought it meant he was killed by Others. Technically they told us Goodwin was an other before this episode. :p

I feel myself warming up to Ana after this episode. Hopefully she won't do anything stupid (like the evil previews are suggesting) with Sayid on the next ep...

Temple Fugate

11-17-2005, 06:52 PM

With those two Hanso Foundation letters in this thread, is it possible that the "Others" have had their lives extended? (and can move at a different speed)Goodwyn remarked that he was surprised someone as young as Ana-Lucia had even heard of the Peace Corps. Although they're still around today, maybe he was one of the first members and did indeed get his life extended? Did he meet the Dharma Initiative during a mission overseas? (BTW, the Corps was founded in 1960. 1+9+6+0=16. It was founded by John F. Kennedy, the 35th president. 3+5=8. Cooincidence? Very likely.)

On rewatching, Ana-Lucia's comment about Goodwyn being dry doesn't quite hold up. His clothes on the day of the crash looked different from the Others. (Granted, maybe he stripped them off a body our out of a suitcase.) Jack landed in the forest with minor injuries, and Bernard was found in the forest. Her evidence is circumstantial, even if she was most likely correct.

Yojimbo

11-17-2005, 09:10 PM

I think this is the best episode of the season so far. What got me was the opening, it was very reminiscent in the style of how Saving Private Ryan opened, in media res, in the midst of chaos and death.

I guess the Others aren't that hard to kill after all. The ongoing mystery of how they move so quickly is really entertaining. It seems like they want the children for their powers, which was implied with Walt and recently the Orientation film which showed a study of psychokinetics in children. It all seems like the Others brainwash them into whatever master plan they have.

The bunker the Tailends found make me wonder. All that was there was some electric panel of sorts and the belongings of someone; a jumpsuit (I think), a Bible and a glass eye. Maybe, Kelvin's, maybe not. At first, when the bunker was first shown, I thought it was a holding pen for the polar bears but it seems like an observing room of some sort.

I'm guessing Eko was carving either his tribe symbol onto his weapon or it was a verse from the Bible (considering he was in a suit and when he looked at the Bible, his eyes conveyed some reaction).

ManicWebb

11-17-2005, 09:48 PM

a study of psychokinetics in children. It all seems like the Others brainwash them into whatever master plan they have.
This just came to me as I was reading your post. Maybe the Others are the children that were experimented on. They probably got tired of being used by the Hanso scientists, rebelled, and ran deep into the jungle.

"Nathan was a bad person."

Something like that. He had a weird smile on his face when it said it and I found the line rather... childish. It's like a justification a child would use. I wonder if that's significant?
Exactly. The kids with the PK powers probably grew up there alone, ala Lord of the Flies. That's why they use almost childish logic/phrasing, and why only some of them seem to be able to read. Notice that Goodwyn didn't know the knife had a US Army insignia on it.

That's why the Others kill most adults, and kidnap children and the ones who aren't "bad people." The Others want to save the children from the harshness of the jungle, the corruption of the other adults, and why all of the Others seem to be very quick...

By the way, I'm 70% sure that all of the kids we've seen on this show have special powers. Walt had 'em. Aaron seems to have 'em. And get this: every group that gets stranded on the island has at least one kid among them. Rousseau's team had Alex. The Front-End survivors had Walt & an unborn Aaron. The Tail-Enders had that brother & sister.

I think a combination of the unusual magnetic properties of the island (as mentioned in the Orientation video), the collective will of the Others to find more children, and the presence of psycho-kinetic children cause planes and boats to crash on the island.

Yojimbo

11-17-2005, 10:44 PM

It would explain the freakish way in which the plane split. Either there were two EM stations on opposite ends or one of the Others simply used his/her powers to do so. I can imagine a child playing with a plane and breaking it like so. Seems like the took the polar bears with them.

But I wonder if the Others played a part in what became the button pushing. That and the Monster/ "security system". I still say its a Garbage Truck or recently, maybe a giant teddy bear.

Robin

11-18-2005, 10:36 AM

Bird Boy

11-18-2005, 10:58 AM

I realized we're about seven episodes in and the show has covered really about three episodes worth of content. They've revisited and reused the same scenes and events over and over. I'm not complaining but I'm not sure if these means the show is already spinning their wheels, desperate to find a direction, or trying to just pad out a concept that may not be able to sustain itself for years on end. I actually enjoyed the episode, it was fast-paced and very tense, but this season has really been such a mixed bag. It looks like things finally get moving next week.

They did that a few times in Season 1 as well. I think it's just a way of building up the anticipation as well as keeping their wild cards reserved for later times. I actually seem to enjoy the wait longer than the show itself.

But then agian, that's me. :D

-BB

Damon

11-18-2005, 11:25 AM

I agree, cant lay all the cards on the table at once. I really liked this episode there is a real question here if the others are kidnapping the people because they are good and they are saving them from something or it is some sort of experiment. I think the concept of extending the story is what makes it so tense and gives everyone a lot of time to actually digest the little bits of info we are given in clues. Think about a movie you watched 44 times and still continued to see something new? I think it is the same thing here, give you just enough that you can digest

Conekiller

11-18-2005, 12:58 PM

Much of this re-tread, I beleive is due to to having different groups wandering about. Now that it seems as if everyone will be all in one place (relatively, between the beach and the caves) I expect a bit less of "this same scene from someone else's perspective."

ManicWebb

11-18-2005, 01:05 PM

At this point, the only other retread we have to worry about is what happened to Walt.

raykremer

11-18-2005, 01:07 PM

Not a whole lot there that Ana hadn't already given us the nutshell version of the episode prior. The coincidence of the few minutes a day of turning their radio on happening right when Boone was in the plane is pushing it a little.

I found this description online of the cut scene that was featured on Good Morning America this morning:

A large wooden crate washes up on the beach and Ana Lucias crew open it up. They are all hoping it had food in it, but instead it appears to be a shipment of boomerangs. Goodwin looks surprised. Here's the actual dialogue from that scene:

Kid: We found something. It's over there.
Adults run over to a wooden crate on the beach.
Kid: Do you think it's food? I hope it's food.
Adults open the crate. It's full of "Australian Returning Boomerangs".

It explains the things they all had tied onto the end of their staff weapons.

GMA seems to be consistent about when they air the Lost^2 scenes if the rest of you want to start taping them for yourselves. They show up right after the weather report at the top of the second hour. That's 8:05 for folks in the Central time zone. Record from 8:00 to 8:10 and you should get it.

Terminatah

11-18-2005, 02:20 PM

By the way, I'm 70% sure that all of the kids we've seen on this show have special powers. Walt had 'em. Aaron seems to have 'em.How does Aaron seem to have 'em?

-Terminatah

ManicWebb

11-18-2005, 02:26 PM

How does Aaron seem to have 'em?

-Terminatah
Claire's flashback episode. When the psychic tried to read Claire's future, he saw a "fuzzy thing" in the baby's future, and the fuzzy thing scared the living crap out of him. He also said that Claire's baby can only be raised by her. Basically, there's something "special" about Aaron.

silvanoir

11-18-2005, 07:43 PM

As for the others only taking "nice" people I think that's a load of bull... Goodwin tricked that guy in the trap to trust him then snapped his neck, that's not a nice thing to do! I think by 'good' he must not mean morally good, but good for their cause (whatever that is) ... those that fight back are no good for their cause.

I have a bit more sympathy for Ana though ... she still has bad snap judgment in most cases. She's also a hypocrite ... she badgers the other survivors about not giving information, but look at how dodgy she is about talking about herself. Where is she from? What was her occupation? Why should anyone trust her whne it's obvious she doesn't trust anyone?

I have to say I did like her Buffy the vampire slayer moment on the hill with Goodwin, very tense ... if we hadn't seen in her current time in the last episodes and known these were in flashback, I wouldn't have thought she would make it.

Overall great episode.

Temple Fugate

11-19-2005, 03:34 AM

I realized we're about seven episodes in and the show has covered really about three episodes worth of content.I would like to see them stop reversing time, but in terms of revealing answers, they've been doing a pretty bang-up job. Look at where we were at this time last season: The hatch hadn't been found yet. We just learned that Sun spoke English, and the only number that anyone was keeping their eyes and ears peeled for was 47, because one of the writers was famous for using that number in everything.

Fone Bone

11-20-2005, 03:45 PM

I too think the answer reveals have been MUCH quicker this season along with more clue-dropping. The middle and end of last season spun it's wheels so much that I was actually able to only get a true sense of the series after the first three episodes of this season.

I don't hate Ana Lucia. I think she is incompetant and a bad leader but the tail end survivors had so many problems that she was the least of them. Good for this episode for finally making me understand her attitude better.

I agree with whoever said that Ana Lucia leading the survivors is like a nightmare scenario of if someone as deluded and useless as Charlie had led our group. I think people who criticize Ana's leadership skills miss the point-- she didn't ASK to be leader and she wouldn't have had to have been one if the plane hadn't crashed. She was saddled with all of this responsibility simply because she saved that little girl and Bernard. Eko should have taken the reigns early on but him refusing to speak probably did more damage to the survivors morale than any stupid decision Ana Lucia has ever made. The group needed leaders and Ana Lucia was the only one who was willing to do it. As noted they didn't even take stock or form a plan until after the Others took three of them.

Speaking of the Others I really like the theory that they are the kids from the Dharma Initiative Film who have turned into Lord of the Flies type savages. As noted in the few glimpses of Ethan and Goodwin we've seen they speak in very childlike phrases and seem somewhat uneducated. Perhaps the experiments done on them have turned them into superhumans? Actually this theory would be a great way to reintroduce Walt back into the series permanently. If they ARE using the experiments that helped the orangatang live to be a hundred isn't it possible that one of the side effects could be accelerated aging through puberty? That writers could explain Malcolm David Kelley's growth spurt with plot logic!

Although the idea that Ana may have killed Alex is an intruiging one I would actually like to see her someday and learn how her time with the Others has changed her. Come to think of it, I'm not quite sure if Walt is found he will be quite whole again. I keep getting the feeling that the Others change whoever they take to their way of thinking. I really want Claire to get back her memory, actually.

The scene between Ana and Goodwin was great. Even though I knew she was going to kill Goodwin I was delighted that we actually got a LITTLE bit of information about the Others from him even though I wanted more. Good stuff.

The survivors from the tail end had it ROUGH. No supplies, no strong leader, CONSTANT attacks from the Others and a constant feeling of dread over everything. On our side Hurley managed to build a golf course. I can't wait to see the survivors meet next week. Bernard and Rose re-uniting will be sweet as will Sun and Jin but I think I REALLY want to see Locke meet up with Mr. Eko. He seems the antithesis of Locke in that he seems very spiritual but obviously doesn't believe the island is the wonderful place Locke deludes himself into believing it is. I also want Micheal to meet with Charlie if only so they can have a discussion that the Others ARE in fact a very real threat.

So many unanswered questions. If the Others only take "nice" people why didn't they grab Bernard? Why have they focused so much on the tail-enders and outside of Walt and Claire have left the front enders alone? I would think if they had a list of people from Ethan that they would have grabbed Locke toot-sweet. And where are Desmond and Danielle? Are the Others aware of them and if so why have they let them survive for so long without either taking or killing them? What IS Mr. Eko's back-story? What is the monster and what does it REALLY look like?. After all of the neat answers and clues that have been offered up this season I actually have faith that this series won't pull a Twin Peaks or an X-Files and actually have logical answers for the questions it raises. Score: *****.

Sandoz

11-20-2005, 04:02 PM

If the Others only take "nice" people why didn't they grab Bernard? One rumor I've heard is that... Bernard turns out to be the "real" Sawyer.

Fone Bone

11-20-2005, 04:36 PM

One rumor I've heard is that... Bernard turns out to be the "real" Sawyer.Is that a rumor or a theory? Where did you hear it? I REALLY hope it isn't true, simply because a) I like Bernard and b) I already peeked!:p

Sandoz

11-20-2005, 04:46 PM

Is that a rumor or a theory? Where did you hear it? I REALLY hope it isn't true, simply because a) I like Bernard and b) I already peeked!:p It was a rumor I heard in some other Lost thread. They're so hard to keep track of. :p It might be important to note that we still don't know Rose and Bernard's last name. The idea was that "Sawyer" has since reformed and turned his life around, which puts "our" Sawyer into a tight spot. Will he still want revenge when he sees that the person he hated has repented, and is probably now a better person than he is?

But I certainly won't vouch for its truthfulness, since there are rumors and theories everywhere. But considering the show's fondness for strange and unlikely coincidences, this doesn't too implausible.

Stewie

11-20-2005, 07:29 PM

I agree with whoever said that Ana Lucia leading the survivors is like a nightmare scenario of if someone as deluded and useless as Charlie had led our group.Score one for Stewie.

I think people who criticize Ana's leadership skills miss the point-- she didn't ASK to be leader and she wouldn't have had to have been one if the plane hadn't crashed. She was saddled with all of this responsibility simply because she saved that little girl and Bernard. Eko should have taken the reigns early on but him refusing to speak probably did more damage to the survivors morale than any stupid decision Ana Lucia has ever made. The group needed leaders and Ana Lucia was the only one who was willing to do it. As noted they didn't even take stock or form a plan until after the Others took three of them.But she wasn't "saddled" with leadership. She did ask for it. Worse, she demanded it. She was always yelling at people when they didn't do what she said. And when what they said made more sense, she just scowled until she had an excuse to yell some more.

The survivors from the tail end had it ROUGH. No supplies, no strong leader, CONSTANT attacks from the Others and a constant feeling of dread over everything. On our side Hurley managed to build a golf course. I can't wait to see the survivors meet next week.
...
I also want Micheal to meet with Charlie if only so they can have a discussion that the Others ARE in fact a very real threat.It's true, the Fronties (what else are we using?) had an easier time of things. But I'm not looking forward to Ana-Lucia resenting them for it. Is it their fault that a million events transpired to put everyone where they ended up? No. Just be glad that you finally have it better.

Yes, I want Michael to explain some things to Charlie. I want him to beat some sense into Charlie.

Yojimbo

11-20-2005, 08:40 PM

Although the idea that Ana may have killed Alex is an intruiging one I would actually like to see her someday and learn how her time with the Others has changed her. Come to think of it, I'm not quite sure if Walt is found he will be quite whole again. I keep getting the feeling that the Others change whoever they take to their way of thinking. I really want Claire to get back her memory, actually.
I just want to know how in the heck Claire managed to ditch Ethan and return in the right direction of base camp. The only thing that comes to mind is if the process of re-educating/brainwashing new recruits involves some sort of memory loss/tabula rasa, then perhaps it backfired since Aaron wasn't born yet or is different than the other special children and Claire went super-mom on Ethan's arse. But then again, she did remember Danielle grabbing her. So perhaps, Danielle snared Ethan in a trap and tried to grab Claire but she fought back.

Conekiller

11-20-2005, 09:42 PM

But she wasn't "saddled" with leadership. She did ask for it. Worse, she demanded it. She was always yelling at people when they didn't do what she said. And when what they said made more sense, she just scowled until she had an excuse to yell some more.
To be fair, I've noticed alot recently that many (if not all) of the characters lack proper manners, always barking orders at each other whithout a sinple "please". I'd get pretty annoyed if peple talked to me like that. Sure when your washed-up rocker friend is hung from a tree it's understandable to dispence the formalities, but comeon, have some manners when it counts , people ^__^

Temple Fugate

11-20-2005, 10:46 PM

Perhaps the experiments done on them have turned them into superhumans? Actually this theory would be a great way to reintroduce Walt back into the series permanently. If they ARE using the experiments that helped the orangatang live to be a hundred isn't it possible that one of the side effects could be accelerated aging through puberty? That writers could explain Malcolm David Kelley's growth spurt with plot logic!I LOVE that idea. Let's see Walt come back to terrorize the survivors as a silent, ninja-like super teen. THEN we'll get some good characterization from Michael.
To be fair, I've noticed alot recently that many (if not all) of the characters lack proper manners, always barking orders at each other whithout a sinple "please". I'd get pretty annoyed if peple talked to me like that. Sure when your washed-up rocker friend is hung from a tree it's understandable to dispence the formalities, but comeon, have some manners when it counts , people ^__^I think it's just a sign that people are tired of putting up with countless frustrations that are getting thrown at them by Mystery Frickin' Craphole Island. They've lost six people since they crashed. Everyone is hiding some vital clue to their predicament, whether they know it or not. Plus, some of them are too caught up in their own personal demons to even think about socializing properly. It's a whirlpool of angst, confusion, frustration and fear. I'm surprised the fuselage survivors still haven't split up yet.

Conekiller

11-20-2005, 11:52 PM

I LOVE that idea. Let's see Walt come back to terrorize the survivors as a silent, ninja-like super teen. THEN we'll get some good characterization from Michael.

to use a term from another thread , it appears Walt would have the "ninjaitis" :D

Actually I was thinking about this earlier. For Micheal to remain interesting (wel..I found him interesting...) Walt will have to be gone a while. ONce Mike meets up with Walt again, it's not liek the kid is gonna keep hating him.

Fone Bone

11-21-2005, 12:52 PM

But she wasn't "saddled" with leadership. She did ask for it. Worse, she demanded it. She was always yelling at people when they didn't do what she said. And when what they said made more sense, she just scowled until she had an excuse to yell some more. Could you give me examples? I'm honestly blanking on specific instances. I think she only became pushy once she realized there was a traitor in their midst. I can't think of any examples before that.

It's true, the Fronties (what else are we using?) had an easier time of things. But I'm not looking forward to Ana-Lucia resenting them for it. Is it their fault that a million events transpired to put everyone where they ended up? No. Just be glad that you finally have it better. So we're picking on the character for things they MIGHT do in upcoming episodes? Uh, okay.:p
Yes, I want Michael to explain some things to Charlie. I want him to beat some sense into Charlie.I just want to know what happened to Charlie. When the series started he was the most lovable character on the island (yes INCLUDING Hurley) and right around the time Ethan kidnapped Claire he's been alternately moody, creepy, possessive and reckless. I want to know exactly what happened between him and Ethan when he was originally taken. The change started around then. When he's becoming creepier than Locke it's time to worry.

I just want to know how in the heck Claire managed to ditch Ethan and return in the right direction of base camp. The only thing that comes to mind is if the process of re-educating/brainwashing new recruits involves some sort of memory loss/tabula rasa, then perhaps it backfired since Aaron wasn't born yet or is different than the other special children and Claire went super-mom on Ethan's arse. But then again, she did remember Danielle grabbing her. So perhaps, Danielle snared Ethan in a trap and tried to grab Claire but she fought back Wait, Danielle kidnapped her? When was this? As far as I know she didn't even MEET Danielle until she strolled into their camp. When was she in cahoots with Ethan?

I LOVE that idea. Let's see Walt come back to terrorize the survivors as a silent, ninja-like super teen. THEN we'll get some good characterization from Michael.I would prefer that if the Others manage to turn Walt against the survivors that we not know at first. Have Micheal have a desperate battle with the Others to retrieve Walt not knowing that his kid is spying on him and the survivors for them. Of course, Walt's radical growth spurt COULD clue some of the other survivors (like Locke) that Walt isn't quite right.

It was a rumor I heard in some other Lost thread. They're so hard to keep track of. :p

Spoiler: (highlight to read)It might be important to note that we still don't know Rose and Bernard's last name. The idea was that "Sawyer" has since reformed and turned his life around, which puts "our" Sawyer into a tight spot. Will he still want revenge when he sees that the person he hated has repented, and is probably now a better person than he is?

But I certainly won't vouch for its truthfulness, since there are rumors and theories everywhere. But considering the show's fondness for strange and unlikely coincidences, this doesn't too implausible. It DEFINATELY sound like the kind of twist that the producers would do although

What if Sawyer is UNABLE to drop it? What if he kills Bernard and that sets off the split in the group that the producers have been hinting at since last year? That would put Kate on Sawyer's side but have ANYBODY who is close to Rose (like Hurley) on the other. Locke seems to have been gearing up for a split since last year (remember how he told Boone they may need Sayid on their side?) and has been slowly ingratiating himself to the castaways who may become major players in the War of the Button. Walt for obvious reasons, Claire because her baby is important, Sun because she knows how to garden. Although that DOES leave questions as to why he bothered bonding with Charlie. He is ALL kinds of useless. This may be an oppotunity he seizes upon.

Stewie

11-21-2005, 01:10 PM

Could you give me examples? I'm honestly blanking on specific instances. I think she only became pushy once she realized there was a traitor in their midst. I can't think of any examples before that.I don't know, it's been several days since I watched the episode. Don't try to confuse me by asking for facts.

So we're picking on the character for things they MIGHT do in upcoming episodes? Uh, okay.:pYes. I'm picking on characters for what I expect the writers to have them do.

Wait, Danielle kidnapped her? When was this? As far as I know she didn't even MEET Danielle until she strolled into their camp. When was she in cahoots with Ethan?The first night Claire woke up screaming, saying someone was trying to take her baby. When Jack though she was just dreaming. Later, when Ethan took her, we assumed it was him. In the finale, we found out it was Rousseau. She had scratches on her arms.
Right now there's no implication that she was working with Ethan or anyone else. She wanted the baby so she could trade it for Alex.

Fone Bone

11-21-2005, 06:06 PM

I don't know, it's been several days since I watched the episode. Don't try to confuse me by asking for facts.My sincerest apologies.:p

Yes. I'm picking on characters for what I expect the writers to have them do.But... they haven't done it yet. When they do (and it IS likely) feel free to make judgements on the character regarding that but so far your reasoning is "Ana Lucia sucks therefore everything she does in the future is going to suck". Honestly, you are probably right that that is going to happen. But at this stage in the game I can judge her on what I've actually seen of her. I don't have enough of a feel for her character to actually do a lot of actual predictions regarding her.
The first night Claire woke up screaming, saying someone was trying to take her baby. When Jack though she was just dreaming. Later, when Ethan took her, we assumed it was him. In the finale, we found out it was Rousseau. She had scratches on her arms.
Right now there's no implication that she was working with Ethan or anyone else. She wanted the baby so she could trade it for Alex.Are we assuming it was Rosseau because of the scratches or did the show outright come out and say it? I need to see this show on DVD NOW! I love it but not quite as much as I love you.:anime: :D

Stewie

11-21-2005, 06:24 PM

but so far your reasoning is "Ana Lucia sucks therefore everything she does in the future is going to suck".No, it's "Everything Ana Lucia has done in the past has sucked, therefore she sucks." And it will take some real doing to convince me that I just 'didn't understand her' before. What's happened to her and everyone around her doesn't explain why she is so combative and disagreeable all the time. Well, it would in real life, but not on this show.
She made Sawyer look like a team player. She makes Charlie seem reasonable.

Are we assuming it was Rosseau because of the scratches or did the show outright come out and say it? I need to see this show on DVD NOW! I love it but not quite as much as I love you.:anime: :DOy, this is tricky.
They came out and said so. Claire saw Rousseau's arms, saw the scratches. Then she had a sort of flashback to the night she was attacked. Claire remembered scratching the person in the dark. She realized what had happened and said so. At the moment, I'm treating it as fact. I think everyone else in the world is.

But, since we didn't actually see it happen in front of our eyes, there's always the possibility that we're wrong.

Fone Bone

11-21-2005, 06:44 PM

No, it's "Everything Ana Lucia has done in the past has sucked, therefore she sucks." And it will take some real doing to convince me that I just 'didn't understand her' before. What's happened to her and everyone around her doesn't explain why she is so combative and disagreeable all the time. Well, it would in real life, but not on this show.
She made Sawyer look like a team player. She makes Charlie seem reasonable.I understand completely and am not very fond of her either. I just don't have a good enough feel for her character for me to get a full reading. Maybe after a flashback.

Oy, this is tricky.
They came out and said so. Claire saw Rousseau's arms, saw the scratches. Then she had a sort of flashback to the night she was attacked. Claire remembered scratching the person in the dark. She realized what had happened and said so. At the moment, I'm treating it as fact. I think everyone else in the world is.

But, since we didn't actually see it happen in front of our eyes, there's always the possibility that we're wrong.Ah, no wonder I was confused. I love how this show pulls crap like that. On any other show it would be infuriating but here it's almost endearing.:D

Stewie

11-21-2005, 06:56 PM

On any other show it would be infuriating but here it's almost endearing.:DIt's enfuriatingly endearing.

ManicWebb

11-21-2005, 08:06 PM

I just want to know what happened to Charlie. When the series started he was the most lovable character on the island (yes INCLUDING Hurley) and right around the time Ethan kidnapped Claire he's been alternately moody, creepy, possessive and reckless. I want to know exactly what happened between him and Ethan when he was originally taken.
I'm going to go out on a limb, here, but I think it might have something to do with Ethan kidnapping the woman Charlie has fallen in love with, and Ethan killing him!

Fone Bone

11-21-2005, 10:25 PM

I'm going to go out on a limb, here, but I think it might have something to do with Ethan kidnapping the woman Charlie has fallen in love with, and Ethan killing him!Silly, I know his excuse. I just want to know whether these tendencies were always at the surface and he was a powderkeg or if something is truly wrong with the guy now that wasn't there before. It just doesn't add up. He still TRIES to be the same lovable guy he was at first but he's become so deluded about his importance there that I'm starting the think HE may become a threat instead of Locke.

Yojimbo

11-21-2005, 11:15 PM

Silly, I know his excuse. I just want to know whether these tendencies were always at the surface and he was a powderkeg or if something is truly wrong with the guy now that wasn't there before. It just doesn't add up. He still TRIES to be the same lovable guy he was at first but he's become so deluded about his importance there that I'm starting the think HE may become a threat instead of Locke.
Gosh, sorry sorry for confusing you Fone. I just meant, I'd like to see that part cleared up the most if and when Claire gets her memory back. What I meant was, I thought was Ethan that kidnapped Charlie and Claire. Then some time after Ethan left Charlie for dead, Ethan tried to do the Other mojo on Claire and that led to her memory loss. And I think it was during this time that Danielle happened upon the two and interrupted the ceremony, knocked out Ethan or something and snatched Claire (either to save her or take the baby to trade up later like she tried to do) but Claire fought back and mysteriously ended up in the direction of the camp (Aaron guiding her?).