Thought provoking religious conversation?

[JustJack]

I know that sometimes, we just don't like to have calm thought provoking religious conversations..but, I'm in an enlightening mood..so..enlighten?

What are your religious stands, why, etc..

Lets try not to fight, o.k?! ;) :p :D

[I.R Joey]

Well I don't know how calm it can be but here goes. Here's why I believe what I do as a Christian, directly taken from the IGN boards.

Alot of this has to do with what may be known about the scientific attributes of God (though as I said then a God that can be comprehended can't be truely worshiped as a sovreign deity, this is why I don't really believe in any of the polytheistic religions, the God's are basically glorified humans) Anyway, alot of what I believe as a Christian stems from what I've read in the Bible. This book is fantastic continually yielding both spiritual and emperical truths to me, that I don't believe could have been written by a mortal hand. I've applied it to my life and seen the tremendous things its done for me. Most recently giving me peace in these troubiling times, but it isn't a cruth, it's an assuridy that God is in heaven, and he controls all of this world and beyond.

2nd I look at Human nature and grow depressed. Seeing the way people are fighting with eachother, the way that technology creates more and more effective ways of killing people. As a studeny of History it never ceases to amaze me how human nature never changes from its evil. It sinks my heart, but In this man Jesus Christ I see what I have to strive to be, the way I should live my life. And by that I don't mean the selfish mock forms of Christianity that has been shown through out the ages (IE the crusaders, inquisition, conquistidors etc.) but a true and honest devotion to what Christ taught. It is my belief that anyone who truely follows those tennants can't fall to the darker side of human nature. It becomes dead, that sin nature that it does (I just watched Kenshin excuse me LOL)

I do not believe that works alone can save a human being from eternal damnation. Again I say that humans are inherriantly selfish beings, bound to their sin nature, always centering the world around themselves. This may just be apart of our survival instincts (which are needed because of the sin nature of others), but then again what is it that we can achieve on our own. I mean by this logic can I say that all the little goods I can do, can make a truely righteous and holy God forget about all the real big sin within me. Do we want a God or Santa? The answer is that God truely is righteous and thus can't turn his back on evil. But then instead of just sending us to a flaming eternity in hell (like even I deserve,) or even letting me blaze my own path their with my actions he sends a completly sinless sacrifice to take the punishment for me showing that he is in and of himself love. I mean what the heck is this, people on Earth go around basically flying the finger at him, yet he shows love back to them by giving something (or rather someone) who is intamently close to him, and in fact part of him. This is why I don't believe alot of the other worldviews that teach that one can achieve their own salvation, I know that I will eventually somewhere, and somehow do wrong, and that will send me to hell anyway. It makes it all useless.


Lastly, faith as I said before I just believe that there is someone/something beyond my understanding. I believe I've found that thing, because of my spirit, one can't truely know an infinite being through their mind, because it IS finite. Therefor the only way to know God is through your spirit.

Whew that was long...and someone needs to reply to this because if not I'll come after you all J/K.

[Batman 80]

I agree with you on that.

[Failure]

Ok, a thought provoking discussion on relegion. I'll try to be succinct and organized as possible.

You make some good points IR. I'd point them out, but that'd make this post too long.

What I dont like about Christianity is the ease that one can be sent to hell. It's not your actions, but whether you have faith in the Christian god that decides your after-life fate. For me, that soudns too human like. Are we too believe that a kind and forgiving god is aat the same time power hungry and attention-starved? I havent read through the bible, but some of the things I've read, I believe the "interepretation" has been altered to fit people's desires. The threat of hell is nothing more than a stick used as an opiate to control the people.

That said, I do believe that religion, all religions, was meant to be pure and righteous at heart. It was meant to help guide people through difficult tims, show them the different paths, and the better paths that one comes upon, and basically to be a helpful guide throughout your life. But this is where we get to the innate evilness of humans that you mentioned IR. Religions arent and shouldnt be about the number of converts you can get. They arent meant to be compared and contested against. And they shouldnt be a tool used to control people through fear. And that's what religion has become these days. It's become a self-mocking, travesty of what is wrong with people. You couldnt get a better social picture than by looking at the problems religion has wrought in the world nowadays. If a religion is based on coercive power, which i believe is what the idea of hell and all other related things is, sooner or later its affect on people will fizzle out. And you look at it now, less people are going to churches, etc, less people are devout, so to speak. And that's because relgion has not adapted with the people.

I dont believe in any specific religion, I basically make my beliefs as I go. I have my own, internal faith and I have my ever-changing beliefs. I'm not saying that's how religion should be, but it should be adaptable. But I know that I'm open-minded to other people's religions and I dont go around trying to convince people to convert to my non-religious faith-style, like others have tried to convert me. Religion should be a veyr personal, individualized thing, not a mass medium. the end. :)

[Nightflower]

On an aside, hey Failure, ever play the fortune cookie game? You add "in between the sheets" to the end of your fortune.

Anyway, back on topic...

I'm a very hardcore athiest. But personally.... I've got this funny faith that everything will work out. Many times, I've been lucky in events that should have had me knee-deep in trouble or mangled. It's kinda funny :p I don't know if that means God is watching over me or if it's just coincidence, but I like it!

The reason I don't have a particular religion is because I think that religion, any one of them, is man-made, not divine, and while good results can come of this sometimes, nothing good can ever come out of me being religious!

Religion can make people strive to be better and go out of their way to help the less fortunate, but of course, it can also be the cause of wars, preaching, burning at stake, and all the other things that everyone's heard of a hundred and one times. I think religion is just shaped by the person who believes in it and is susceptible to a person's strengths and fallacies. So if being Christian makes you want to be nicer to people you don't particularly like, then good for you. And if being Christian makes a person believe that anyone who isn't straight is going to hell, then I think that's more the fault of the person and not the religion.

[I.R Joey]

Well I believe that peoples beliefs can be corrupted by an institution. No church should ever have so much power over an individual that it can tell them how to live their lives. Nobody should blindly follow any single leader who comes about saying he's got a messege from God. I believe that anyone who is truely following his or her beliefs would see their beliefs more as a worldview and not as a religion (religion to me imply's a bunch of empty formalities) However, I don't think one can say that all beliefs are equally correct, for instance how can someone reconcile the idea of an eternal afterlife, with the idea of reicarnation? Or following the 5 pillars with the idea of unconditinal grace (IE not being able to work your way to God?)

[DR. BELCH]

--about questioning God. To me organized religion seems too cut-and-dry--"defy God, burn in Gehenna". We presume Lucifer's biggest sin was pride and wanting to be God and take over Heaven, but suppose he just had a few issues with the way The Gig Guy was running matters and He didn't wish to listen? Maybe the intent was noble but the methods undesirable. Maybe all they needed was a mediator, a table, and three chairs, not some big war that ended up with Lou and his followers cast into the pit.
I question God daily, I admit it. Do I have to worry about damnation because I have opinions, or because I don't blindly agree with some Divine Plan? I'm told in church we should be fervent and unwavering in our beliefs, although more often than not that seems to be at the root of the problem--recall a little man named Osama and what his devotion to his faith wrought.
A Divine Plan. Doesn't that negate all free will, liberty, and need for prayer? I mean, we don't have to follow it, sure, but that means hell. And if we do follow it, it means persecution, tyrrany, suffering, and loss. So it doesn't seem worth it. The Plan to me seems so stupid, confused, and full of self-contradictions and total 180s that it's impossible to live under. A bookkeeper would lose his jobs if he balanced his tables that way. A father would lose his children if he treated them as God does us. Yet He is worshipped. I don't see the logic.

[I.R Joey]

Well my belief is that God has the best in mind for us at heart. It's kind of like how a child may question his father on why he has to do this and that, and why he can't play in the streets, or drink from the toilet like fluffy does. It's kind of a "daddy" view thing, where because he knows so much more then us, or can see things coming that we can't.

As for Luceifer I somehow doubt that he was an innocent victim, I mean if you have a personal diffrence with someone you don't get 1/3 of the people you work with and start objecting (that's a revolt if I've ever seen one.)

As for free will, the fact that God even bothered giving it to us knowing full well the kind of evil's we'd do with it suprises me alot. I mean he bothers to give it to us knowing that we'd not only give him the universal 1 fingered salute, but.

1. Hurt other beings he created in his image.

2. Destroy the beutiful planet he gave to us.

3. And in general just be not very nice creatures.

I can only call that grace.

[kiddiesunshine]

i don't know what to believe. i don't see myself making sacrifices for an entity whom i've never seen. and with all the varying religions, how can one believe in any? karl marx said, "religion is the opiate of the masses..."
it's there to make us feel safe and not worry.

[Failure]

Originally posted by Nightflower
On an aside, hey Failure, ever play the fortune cookie game? You add "in between the sheets" to the end of your fortune.


So... "You will always get what you want through your charm and personality... in between the sheets." hmm... I can live with that. ;)

Back on topic, classic quote kiddiesunshine, "opiate of the masses." nothing explains religion better than that one short phrase.

[Calhoun07]

Originally posted by DR. BELCH
A Divine Plan. Doesn't that negate all free will, liberty, and need for prayer? I mean, we don't have to follow it, sure, but that means hell. And if we do follow it, it means persecution, tyrrany, suffering, and loss. So it doesn't seem worth it. The Plan to me seems so stupid, confused, and full of self-contradictions and total 180s that it's impossible to live under. A bookkeeper would lose his jobs if he balanced his tables that way. A father would lose his children if he treated them as God does us. Yet He is worshipped. I don't see the logic.

A divine plan is something you choose out of your own free will, it does not negate it. To me, the only thing that could be seen as negating man's free will was when God came down and stopped the work on the Tower of Bable because He didn't like it. Ok, so He comes down to stop that, but where has God been the rest of human history to stop worse stuff man kind has gotten involved in? Religions say it's all part of free will, which I agree, we have brought on the evil in this world on our selves, for the most part, but if this horrible condition our world is in is a result of free will, and if God isn't intervening in a dramatic way now, then why did God feel the need to stop work on an ancient tower? Surely, man kind has gained more significant knowlege since then that God has permitted, knowlege that is both amazing and beautiful and deadly and dangerous at the same time.

To me, I seek a relationship with God first. I don't seek a church first, because not all churches are preaching the truth. Most just pay lip service to God on a weekly basis. So I leave it to God to guide me to the right church at the right time. I think it's important to know God first then seek out believers to meet with, not the other way around.

And I have always had an interest in spritual matters, and the road I have taken is too long and twisted to go into detail here, but all I will say is I am still walking on the road and looking for the end.

[Failure]

So why was the construction on the tower of babel stopped?

Is there such a thing as a cliff's notes of the bible and other religious texts? As much as I'd like to expand my knowledge, there's no way i could read the bible or etc.

[Calhoun07]

Originally posted by Failure
So why was the construction on the tower of babel stopped?

Is there such a thing as a cliff's notes of the bible and other religious texts? As much as I'd like to expand my knowledge, there's no way i could read the bible or etc.

It was stopped because the people after the flood joined together and decided to build a city with a tower that reached to Heaven, but it was God's will that they scatter and that nations rise up out of these people, so God came down and confused the languages of the people so they could no longer work together. It's perhaps the only story in the Bible where God exerts His will over man's. I understand that it was for the betterment of the world, because if people just congregated in one place, the nations of the world wouldn't have been born. But does this story negate God's will?

And the Bible isn't such a daunting book that there is no way a regular person could read it. My personal favorite translation is the Tanakh, the Jewish translation (yes, it's in English) as it makes the stories very easy to follow, and even has the text in paragraphs rather than verses. Of course, it's just the Old Testament, but that's where the most interesting stories take place!

[batboy2001]

I am afraid I will say something stupid. Well, I am a Christian, but by no means "religious", religion is like going to a fancy restaurant, odering, getting no food, but a bill. I am just a person that has a personal relationship with Jesus.

[joshualane]

Originally posted by kiddiesunshine
i don't know what to believe. i don't see myself making sacrifices for an entity whom i've never seen. and with all the varying religions, how can one believe in any? karl marx said, "religion is the opiate of the masses..."
it's there to make us feel safe and not worry.
Agreed...and I like to pose this question whenever religious discussions come up:

"What makes the ancient Greek & Roman religions any less valid or important than Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, or any other religion that is popular right now??"

Personally, I'm an Atheist and find it quite silly that people put so much faith and love into something that may or may not exist. I certainly respect other people's desires and decisions when it comes to religion, but I just think that people should look within themselves more often for answers, guidance, etc than looking to "god".

Another question I wish to pose to those who are religious...WHY did you or WHAT made you decide to believe in "god"?

[Calhoun07]

A question I always like to ask Christians:

If there are Siamese twins and one gets saved and the other is not, what will happen at the rapture, should the rapture take place when they are alive? As the Bible teaches us, there will be those who will be literally caught away. People will be there one moment and suddenly gone the next when the rapture takes place; their physical bodies will be caught up. So, what if that saved body is physically attatched to a body that isn't saved?

[Clayface]

I'm a scientist at heart, and so, science plays a big role in my life. I believe that, by definition, you can never prove or disprove the existence of a god - god, by definition, lays outside the boundaries of science. Thus, its not worth arguing over. If you want to believe in one, and worship one, go for it - as long as your worship and beliefs don't harm other individuals. And if you don't want to worship or believe in a god, no problem either.

I believe that the bible is a book written by humans, and not the "word of god". Whether or not it was inspired by a "real" god, I don't know. But I find it sad that there are so many literalists out there that use the words of the bible to persecute and harm others. :(

[Twilight]

I have no religion. My mom and dad never had strong religious backgrounds and never incorporated it into my life. I did attend a Christian preschool when I was younger, but my parents never told me what to believe in or who God was. I was actually a funny child. At the school, I had no concept of God and what a god was or what religion was. During prayer I would open my eyes to take a peek at what everyone else was actually doing and I had no idea how to read the bible. I would look over the next person's shoulder and try to find the page that way. :p

I don't know what lead me to believe in no religion, it wasn't just one reason though. I think the question of God creating man or man creating God was one of the first notions that ever came to me, and I decided for myself that it was the latter. Most recently I've come to a firm conclusion for myself that religion is created and the only faith I have is in myself and in my most trusted friends and family.

The only part of religion, of any religion, that I find interesting and most useful are the teachings and stories that teach people right from wrong and how to live as a good person. These teachings are neutral too. One doesn't have to be religious to learn the good and evils of life, just have to be human. :)

[kiddiesunshine]

i was raised christian, but as i matured, i saw all religion as questionable. i'm the kind of person who needs proof to believe something. the bible isn't proof. it's just an old storybook.
question: if the bible is god's word, then why are the books in it the gospel according to other people? and why do most bibles have god's actual words highlighted?

[Mr. Obsession]

Originally posted by Failure
So why was the construction on the tower of babel stopped?
Originally posted by calhoun07
It was stopped because the people after the flood joined together and decided to build a city with a tower that reached to Heaven, but it was God's will that they scatter and that nations rise up out of these people, so God came down and confused the languages of the people so they could no longer work together.
My understanding of the Tower of Babel is similar, but a bit different. It wasn't that they were trying to build a tower that reached to heaven that was the problem (all around the world we've got hundreds of towers that scrape against the sky's, heck we've even sent men to the moon, but God hasn't come down and knocked them to rubble). The problem was that the building the tower was an act of pride in which people sought to be remembered for all time on a level equal to God, a big no no. Then this is compounded by the fact that it was basically the entire human population at the time was taking part in it. So God took it apon Himself to make it so that couldn't undertake such a massive project of ego again.

It's perhaps the only story in the Bible where God exerts His will over man's. I understand that it was for the betterment of the world, because if people just congregated in one place, the nations of the world wouldn't have been born. But does this story negate God's will?
I don't think it was the only one, look at the flood, which was the major biblical event before the tower. The people at the time were so down right evil that they'd give Darkseid the creeps. So God wiped them out except for one man, his family, a bunch of animals, the Professor and Mary Ann whom he sent on a 963 hour tour. :D

I'd say that if wiping out most of the human race isn't God exercising his will, I don't know what is.

[Joe Tully]

I've always been a quiet, analytical person, and scientific like Clayface. So in about 7th grade, I started strongly questioning my Catholic upbringing. By the time I was confirmed in 9th grade, I was an atheist. There are too many discrepancies and things that just don't make sense in the Bible for me to continue believing in it. Some people say that "God works in mysterious ways", but to me that always seemed like a lame excuse for when bad things happened for no reason. While I can be optimistic sometimes, I am a generally cynical and pessimistic person, and have certainly had my fights with depression in the past, which certainly doesn't help my religious outlook.

I believe that there might have been a Jesus, who was a leader of the people of his time in a rebellion. I mean, historians think that the Arthurian legends were based on a British general. But I don't think that Jesus could have been the son of God. IMO the Bible is a metaphor that many people were/are unable to interpret.

There's an interesting guy who was on Politically Incorrect once, I think his name was Bishop Sprang. He made some interesting arguments against traditional Christian views. One point that he brought up was that you can tell that the Bible was written 30+ years after the death of Jesus, and that you can't expect a story about your life to be written accurately over 30 years after you die.

Clayface made a lot of points that I agree with. We have a huge amount of evidence for evolution, and none for God, so I stick with scientific views.

[DR. BELCH]

I.R Joey:
[M]y belief is that God has the best in mind for us at heart. It's kind of like how a child may question his father on why...he can't play in the streets, or drink from the toilet like fluffy does. It's...because ["daddy"] knows so much more then us, or can see things coming that we can't.
That I can see up to a point. But what parent gives a child something and then just decides arbitrarily to take it away again, giving no reason for his actions? That just creates a bitter man screaming, "But I was allowed to have it before! What changed?" And where there are bad feelings, a scheme to circumvent God and get back what was lost inevitably follows.

As for Lucifer I somehow doubt that he was an innocent victim, I mean if you have a personal diffrence with someone you don't get 1/3 of the people you work with and start objecting...
As I said, I don't approve of the actions, but no one plots to overthrow his boss without some justification. And a desperate man does things a sane, happy man could never fathom. Trust me; I've been desperate before.

[I.R Joey]

As for Calhoun's question about the siamise twins and the rapture...uh interesting, never thought of that. To be quite honest I can't answer your question cuz I haven't dwelt on it. It is interesting though.

As for Dr. Blech Parent's don't always give their children reasons for their actions (my parent's didn't) and I'm not sur if they always should. Should parent's have to explain every descicion they make to their kids?As for Luceifer, well we see what the devil is now, so I find no reason to believe that he would have been any less of a jerk before he fell.

As for Babel and people trying to ascend to God's heights, that's scary cuz in a way that's what our society is trying to do IMO (with genetics.) I believe that the tower of Babel was yes both judgement, and something God wanted to do for the furthering of his plans.

[JustJack]

While I've really enjoyed everyone's thoughts, I figured now I should respond to my own thread?

Basically...You live your entire life, parents telling you one thing, & you never hear any other side of the story. I was raised strict Christian, & when my brother "dropped out", I asked why, & he said "there are other religions out there, & I want to understand them before I worship any of them". And so, thats sort of what I'm doing right now.
I still go to a Christian congregation...thats where all my friends, & girlfriend goes. But, I've been spending a lot of time studying all the other religions of the world. I gotta know which one's right. I'm not going to say what I believe...because I just don't know. A lot fo the things that I think I might believe(its complicated...I think I saw a ghost on several occasions), contradict what I should believe. So...
Anyway, I'm not crazy about it...but I did see something in a dark house, once..and I know I wasn't asleep or anything like that..but I simply saw something, & I wasn't the only one. To this day, we can't figure out an explanation of any sort. Ghostbusters was always my favorite show, & I love the world of the paranormal. I don't know what I believe to that extent...but I do read the bible, quite often, just to find something that justifies ghost existance. But, maybe I was just seeing things? Not going to ruin my life over one weird encounter. But...
Anyway. Right now, I guess I'd have to say I'm christian. It makes the most sense to me(the religion, not the hypocrits that call themselves Christians), and so, for now, I'm sticking with it.

[Lachesis]

Religion. . . thorny topic no matter how you look at it. I think I'll ramble a bit.

I wouldn't say I'm an atheist, but I certainly don't hold to any organized religions. Too easy to harbor elitism. This is also why I have a distinct fear of foreign-language schools and private charity organizations. Don't mind that they exist, and I recognize the advantages of faith, but not for me.

I don't think I believe in God as an active doer. Anything involving a "supreme plan" always struck me as farfetched. I've always conceived of a Supreme Being as more of a force or focal point. A gravitation. A tempo. Philosophy's not my strong suit, but the God-as-clock-winder picture's always felt about right.

I think what it comes down to is that I place more faith in mankind's ability to do good than any God's ability to tell us to do good.

:)

[optimal321]

I'm Catholic, but i don't care for it too much. I probably shouldn't even consider myself a Catholic. I question too much stuff that i should just believe because of blind faith. Especially when i actually think that maybe i will believe in something only to have it ripped out of my hands.

I know that sometimes i will pray very hard for something, and not get it. But other times when i pray, it pays off. Then again, i may not pray for something, and end up getting it. Or i may not pray for something, and not get it. So does God make a difference in it? Or is it just stupid luck?

So i don't believe in blind faith. And i don't believe that the Bible, priests, the church, or religion in general leads me to metaphorically "see."

Besides, there's something about Catholicism that i just don't care for. Maybe it's the hypocrytical, overbearing, unidividualistic narrow-mindedness i always seem to see at church.

It's morality, not religion that matters to me.

But that's not saying i don't believe in God, or Jesus. I have my own beliefs, however wavering they may be.

But most of all, i've realized that it really doesn't matter what you believe. If Osama believes that all us Christians are going to hell, and we all believe he is, then which one is right? How can my beliefs be any more true than his?

That's when the morality thing comes into play.

I don't live my life believing that God will make everything okay, and that i will be better in the afterlife because i'm Catholic.

I live my life for my life. Not for something that may or may not exist. And not because anyone or anything else tells me to.

[Calhoun07]

Regarding God as an active doer...I do believe that God is an active doer in today's world, and I have seen far too much in my life not to believe that there is a supernatural power of God that intervenes in the life of not only believers but also non believers and those who are still seeking. My sister was miraculously saved from rolling her car once, just as I was saved from a near fatal car accident that I recounted in the thread about ghosts, and I have seen some answers to prayers that can only be God. If I was to get into detail, the thread would be long, but much in the same way I do believe that there are ghosts or at least spritis among us based on personal experiences, I believe in a God that is actively involved in the lives of people every day, whether they know it or not. And actally, most people don't know it, they just take it for granted.

[JustJack]

I thank everyone for their views. And I really hope that people continue to post their beliefs. But, I just wanted to say why I posted this, for a second..
I'm somewhat of a "Youth Group Leader", a lot of the grown-ups look to me, & one of my friends, who's slightly older, to keep an eye on the "Youth Group". Because of this, I sort of have a Young leadership role in my congregation. After reading these, I thought it might do some good if one night, I got up, and read some of these thoughts? Like Optimal, I do believe that way to many people have simply..."blind faith". Maybe hearing so many various thoughts from people all over the place...maybe some of these religious fanatics will think twice for once in their lives? :rolleyes: ;) :D
Anyway. I figured this would do everyone some good, in the first place!

[Evil Dr. Reef]

I would have to call myself a quasi-Christian. I believe in God, and (Some of) the other stuff in the Bible, but there are too many discrepencies for me to commit my life to something as large as steady Christianity.

The major problem that I have is over Final Judgement. I was thinking about this a year or so ago, and it just stuck with me. The example I thought up was this:
Mr. Tanaka (made up, just a name I thought of) is an average man living in Japan. He's a Shintoist, and every single day of his life, he has done nothing wrong to anyone or anything. But, when he dies, he's going to rot in Hell, because he wasn't a Christian, and didn't believe in the one Christian God. I think this is a huge load of crap, and wonder about the wisdom of Allmighty God, if this is how He runs the world. If so, when people DO get to Heaven, it's going to be mighty lonely.

But, still, I do believe, because of my own expierences with this sort of thing, that God DOES exist, and is interacting with the world today. I won't go into detail here, but if anyone would like to know, feel free to drop me a line. And going back to the whole Bible thing, a very wise friend of mine onece said this, which I find to be very accurate:

" Don't worship the church; it's founded by man, and therefore, subject to error. Don't worship the Bible; it was written by man, and again, subject to error. Worship God, for he is not a man, but God, and therefore, Perfect."

[I Love My Boyfriend!]

I believe religion is a source for guidance.
As people or human beings we all need a path to follow, or to guide us along the way of life.
It's our way to not be lost in a world that can be difficult at times.

It's good to believe that there is an omnipotent force or being out there that watches over us, to give us strength, to guide us in the darkest of times and etc .
I guess that's why people pray, especially in difficult times.
We take refuge in religion.

All religions have teachings that are pretty similar,
like Morality for a good life and to be a good person.
Unless if it's one of those evil false religions that tells you to sacrifice virgin girls or pigs or goats, like the ones they show in some scary movies.
God, I hope those are all fake.

Anyway, Religion is good, but you should not let it run your whole entire life or judge a person by their personal beliefs or limit yourself because of your own beliefs.

I'm only Catholic because both of my parents are and I follow what they believe in.
But, I truly believe that the most important things that matters in life is Love of course and to live a good life of good morals and do good things, which is pretty much all the preaching of most religions.
If you do good things within your life, you will go to a good serene place in the afterlife regardless of what religion you believe in.

Well, Hugs and sweet kisses and have a happy New Year everyone.

[Batman 80]

I've been a Christian my whole life. The reason Christianity is said to be the right religion to belief is because the only way to get to Heaven is to believe that Jesus Christ was God's son and to except him into your life. Many Pastors at different Christian churches I have attended have read this from the bible. I've also seen many things that have happened that only could be the work of God.

[I.R Joey]

Well I say this I am a Christian, and I believe what the Bible say's 100% and have faith in God, and believe with all my heart that there is now way to God but through Christ. I also love reading about other people's beliefs and stuff. I kind of get mad when some Christians spout out things about other peoples beliefs when they hardly know there own.

As for religion running your life I say this, the institution of religion shouldn't run ones life, but faith is diffrent then religion. As I've said before Religion to me seems to imply doing a bunch of silly little traditions that get people to heaven. Heck that's why Martin Luther had to go nail a bunch of thesis to that church in Germany. This in fact is what causes all the wars over religion, ignorancem which is another thing I can't stand but that's another ball of yarn.

BTW When you talk about the idea of salvation through Christ, I don't think people should think of it as God sending people to hell cuz they won't follow his plan. Think of it more like people desciding to reject God's exstended hand, and overcome their own sin nature. Really fundamental to the idea of salvation is the idea that nobody is truely good, and everyone is born with a natural lean towards evil, and that no matter what you do you'll always have that nature. Now a righteous God can't overlook sin and evil, but instead of just sending us to hell he gives us a way to overcome our evil nature, Christ dying is God's way to do it. So God's plan isn't just a "look at me I'm a tyrant and I'm going to make you do it my way" thing, it's a gift of mercy.

There I hope that helped. Keep it up.

[Calhoun07]

as for the question about some foriegn man in another country who's never had an opportunity to hear about the gospel of Christ but lived his life to the the best of his ablility under his own religion....well, I don't think that question is as hard to answer as the people who ask it seem to think it is.

Here's what we do know: It takes the blood of Christ to cover our own sins. Without it, forget it. You can give to charities and love your mom, but if you don't get your sins covered with the blood of Jesus, that's your decision. Without getting all preachy and stuff, just keep in mind the passover. The passover remembers the 10th plague that hit Egypt, where the first born of each household was killed by the angel of death. The ONLY way to be protected was to be in a household that had the blood of a sacrificed lamb, and Egyptians were saved that night because they knew what was going on and chose to go to the houses of the Hebrew people to be protected. But I am sure that good people by our standards died that night because they chose not to listen to the warnings and they chose not to heed to what they knew they should do. And what about the Egyptians who never heard the message? The Bible doesn't say that they were spared, either.

In the end, you can think what you want about other people who haven't heard, but the bottom line is that you have, and what are you going to do with that information? There are no excuses for those who do know, that is for sure.

[Naraht]

Oh, why not...
Speaking as a Jew...(and a somewhat agnostic one @ that) I have my own take on religion.

I'm of the belief, that being Jewish is part of who I am, via heredety, and that as a Religion, it helps lay down the guide lines of how to live my life. I don't consider God to be an active part of my daily life, and I pray in Synagouge more out of respect to the traditions of my people, than any need to thank God..

I have serious proplems with Christianity on a whole (not the followers...I have many Christian friends & family....) mainly these few points...which I know don't reflect the views of all the people of the faith..
Crusades - Killing People in Gods name is NOT cool in my book. The Ten Commandments say you shouldn't...the Church has no Business doing so.
Spanish Inquisition - See Crusades
Misionary Work...ok, I'm gonna step on some toes here...but..I really dislike the fact that (as I understand it) Christians go and give "the Word Of God" to people who haven't heard of Christianity...who according to Christianity would goto Heaven, but now, haveing learned of Jesus etc. will goto Hell, unless they convert. This seems Mean & Spiteful to me. It also brings me to
Heaven & Hell - Don't like it. Doesn't make sense to me...I belive in doing good for my own sake...not because I'm afraid of Devine Retribution if I'm bad. I don't kill people, cause I don't want to, it would be bad. Not cause I'm scared of Hell. I'm already going to Hell. I don't believe in Jesus.

Oh well...there's my little Anti-Christianity Rant...

Again...I don't hate people who follow the religion..(well, some...) but it's not cause of the religion. I dislike what a number of Jews are doing in Israel...I dislike what the palestinians are doing as well...but that's another thread.

[spectre316]

I've always been shy when it comes to discussions on religion, especially with my family. The fact is that we never went to church when I was little. I never knew what "real" religion was. I just basically always considered myself a person who believed in God and other religious things.

But it's problem I have; I just can't help to question things. I finally started getting into it a couple years ago, and something about it just scared me. I backed off. Perhaps it's because of some of the "God works in mysterious ways" thing, and other things like that. But I've always felt like people were pushing me to love religion. And read the Bible on a daily basis. And become who they wanted me to become.

I can't do that. I'm simply a person who wants to be their own. So... yes, I do find it interesting, and thus I do believe in God. I just wish... perhaps, even in times like these, that I'd become more religious. So I might consider trying once again sometime in the near future.

[Scythemantis]

I`m not religious.I try to accept and respect all people`s beliefs equally.If I did follow any one religion,it would be buddhism or some other one with the "live and let live" mentality.

Many christians I know have a warped and almost sickeningly closed-minded view of the world...they seem to believe that the world outside their faith is a torrent of chaos and unspeakable evil...anything "strange" to them is automatically a work of satan,and their definition of strange includes everything from abstract art to women who wear pants and do yard work.It`s really very sad.

And those missionarries who go out and destroy cultures that have been unchanged for centuries downright enrage me.To me,it`s like turning stonehenge into a fast food restaraunt or making those dozen remaining pandas into sandwiches.To be a little less sophisticated: Modern society blows.

[Calhoun07]

Killing in God's name has never been a practice of any true Bible believing church in history. The people who did that were the Roman Catholics, and Roman Catholicism resembles more the pagan Roman religion of their worship of Mithra rather than the Christian church that sprang up in the wake of Jesus' influence.

I recommend the book Mithras: The Fellow In The Cap by Esmè Wynne-Tyson. There are other books out there about the subject, and this one is probably out of print (I had to pay about fifty dollars for my copy from a dealer in rare books from Northfield, Minnesota) but it goes into detail how Constantine was worshipped the pagan god of Mithra and "converted" as a political move to appeal to the ever growing population of Christians in his nation. However, even after he became a "Christian," many of the pagan practices and traditions (such as celebrating Mithra's birthday on December 25th by putting up a tree and killing non believers, among others) were carried over into his version of Christianity that was branded Roman Catholicism.

I am not speaking against any religions here, just pointing out the facts that those who enforced the killing of non believers in the name of God were actually doing it in the name of a pagan God and were far from any true Bible believing church at that time, and far from any Bible believing church today.

[pencilsharp]

Crikey... Threads on religion AND dating?
Heavy.
As one of the *ahem* older posters here, let me take this ball and run like Knute Rockne (sigh... ask your grandparents...)
Christianity has gotten a really bad rep over the past 2000 years. Y'see, it's the most democratic religion out there. No, not as in political "democratic", more in the freedom vein. Simply put, you accept Christ as a manifestation of God on Earth, and you're in, though there are churches that don't require even that.
I am a former atheist. I, too, once wondered what everyone saw in religion, period. But I grew out of that.
That's right. "Grew."
Admittedly, 30 is not exactly wizened, but also not overly naive. I've seen things over these 30 years that made me (slowly) believe. I went to war. I've been through an explosion that should have killed me. I saw my life slip away, and had it given back to me. I tried to give it away, and been smacked upside the head and set straight. I met TBW (without initially recoginizing her as such) and have loved her more with every passing day. I've seen two kids come into this world: kids that I created (well, I helped, anyway :rolleyes: )
The point is, atheism doesn't make sense to me anymore. Anybody remember Bloom County? Remember Oliver, the kid scientist? My favorite quote of his was from the one day he allowed his science-believing self one moment of giddiness and yelled to no one in particular "Things are just a little too orderly to have just happened !" Words to live by.
Is there a God? I believe it. Are the many religions different paths to him, really? I don't know that. One part of me says "Hey, follow your bliss." Another part says, "That is so corny. Christ is the only way." Still, there is one thing for certain. God is righteous, and He is just, and He is infinite, in knowledge and patience. I don't believe that He would leave a single good person behind. NOT ONE! Not a God worth the worship.
So there's my two cents. I believe. Nuff said.