Final Fantasy 7 Advent Children

[Gaspard]

I just got some news on the new final fantasy movie and I just tought I would tell everyone.All the playable characters are on it but Im not sure about
Cait Sith. Even Aires is on it. I read that Aires comes back from the dead
and before that she visits him in his dreams. Zack the person that saved cloud will be on it I not sure how though because hes dead. Even the Turks will show
their faces in the movie. Most importintly Sepheroths clones are the reason
its called advent children. But 3 of the clones manage to make an army to
destroy the world. With Aires coming back from the dead Sepheroth
came back with her.Thats all the information I got though.

[Pretentious]

Man, this movie will suck more than the game it's based off of.

gg Square, gg.

[Tash]

Man, this movie will suck more than the game it's based off of.

gg Square, gg.I'm afraid I agree. (Except for that whole thing about the game sucking. Overrated: yes. Sucked: no.)

Why do they need to bring everyone back from the dead?

[Pretentious]

Gotta squeeze that cow dry of every ounce.

I mean, I'm not against sequels. I absolutely LOVED FFX-2 (despite never playing FFX) because there was just a sense of fun and light heartedness that seems to be non-existant in video games (especially RPGs) nowadays. It was nice to sit through a game that was goofy and didn't take itself too seriously.

Advent Children though...ugh. As if the environmentalism tossed in our faces every five minutes and the convoluted, horribly uninteresting plot of the game weren't enough, now we've got something that seems to be nothing more than every "deep" and "meaningful" anime ever done...right down to everything being grey and lifeless looking. Wonder how long it'll take for the evil, Christian-esque religion to show up.

[Artimus Gigan]

FYI Caitsith already died once...he's mass produced RC doll so it's more or less null(he was also alive at the end of the game)

Besides the Aeries thing is only rumored....nobody really knows if it's A) Flashback, B) Ghost, C) Aeries Model RCX-91 Custom Upgrade, D) Aeries really just came back from the dead


NOBODY HAS A CLEAR IDEA WHAT WILL HAPPEN

Though those Speh clones are probably just shortlived cannon fodder...they're not individualiostic enough to warrent being seperate longstanding characters...

think of them like stormtroopers...

All though what's really going around is that AC is just a really long introduction to Final Fantasy 7-2...

it's a set up...I mean they already have DoC set to go, so it's almost a given.

It's also not the first franchise to capitalise on a sequal in the series, Capcom has done that alot with Street Fighter II...

[James]

Gotta squeeze that cow dry of every ounce.
I fail to see giving what fans have been asking for years as squeezing a cow dry. If there was no interest and they were still peddling a franchise, fine. FF7 was massively popular, and while you may not like it, it's possibly the best game I've played in 23 years of game playing. :p


I mean, I'm not against sequels. I absolutely LOVED FFX-2 (despite never playing FFX) because there was just a sense of fun and light heartedness that seems to be non-existant in video games (especially RPGs) nowadays.
I agree with you there P. FFX-2 was WOEFULLY underrated. Get past the intentionally cheesy feel and then is a vibrant and non linear game bursting to get out. It does what I felt FF games were failing to do from FFVIII onwards: It gave a feeling of freedom. There are loads of side quests, loads of challenges and the story is fairly non linear from get go. I loved FFX for it's story and game system, but it was very, very rigid. FFX-2 gets too little praise simply on the basis of the main characters - IMO.

It was nice to sit through a game that was goofy and didn't take itself too seriously.
"Right on", as we Brits don't say. ;)


Advent Children though...ugh. As if the environmentalism tossed in our faces every five minutes and the convoluted, horribly uninteresting plot of the game weren't enough, now we've got something that seems to be nothing more than every "deep" and "meaningful" anime ever done...right down to everything being grey and lifeless looking. Wonder how long it'll take for the evil, Christian-esque religion to show up.
Well, I think it's a matter of waiting till we see and not to judge it as rubbish or greatness when we have so little to go on. I have no issue with environmentalism as long as it's done right. We'll see. I'm hopefully. FF generally offers good quality so I remain confident this will be interesting at the very least.

[Artimus Gigan]

Pom Poko set the bar for all extremely enviromental messages in films to be judged

Therefore if it doesn't take the time to have the main character turn to the viewer and make a speech on the enviroment...it's therefore palletable


I think Arjuna pulled the enviromental message off with style, little tid bits here and there(asside from the PSA on the DVD) mixed with the constant action and character stories, it worked even though it was heavily opinionated...

So I mean it's entirely possable to have a movie or series work well with an enviromental message and come off as good...

Then again FFVII only had bits and pieces of the enviroment message in the game, most of the time it was SAVE THE WORD WITH GREAT JUSTICE AND GET ULTIMATE POWER BY MAKING CHOCOBOS HAVE SEX!

Yeah there's the whole fandom surrounding the game. but even though I've beaten pretty much the entire series I choose to ignore them...I mean I can't even stand those people...

[Gaspard]

I do think that they should have left everyone dead exept sepheroth.
There is some stuff that I did think was gay.
But I have a really bad fealling that Tiffa is going to be killed off.
But I think they should have thought about making FF 6 first or insted
of making a sequal they should have made pre sequal about
when sepheroth was good it sounds alot cooler.

[Artimus Gigan]

I do think that they should have left everyone dead exept sepheroth.
There is some stuff that I did think was gay.
But I have a really bad fealling that Tiffa is going to be killed off.
But I think they should have thought about making FF 6 first or insted
of making a sequal they should have made pre sequal about
when sepheroth was good it sounds alot cooler.OK first off

No groups of high paying populice have any intrest in 6, infact no one aside from the people who either played the SNES or out of curiosity got the Anthology version really know about it

7 is still considered by most TEHGREATESTFFGAMEEVAH and therfore much like other franchises they are more willing to do a venture on it because it is more likely to make a profit return

Also sepiroth being goody goody in the beginning would sound like they ripped off star wars...

Also you can't kill Tifa....for she is sheilded by round rubbery objects able to deflect the harshest of blows. It's pretty much is the same case with The Grimmace...because he IS a round rubbery object able to deflect even the harshest of blows

[BrendaBat]

I'll definately pick this movie up. Even if the story sucks; at least it will look pretty. :anime:
I'm curious about what the dub will be like. Anyone here have any info about it? Will Mr.T play Barret?

I'm afraid I agree. (Except for that whole thing about the game sucking. Overrated: yes. Sucked: no.)My sentiments exactly. I was lucky because, when I played FFVII (around 1999-2000), I was unaware of how massive its hype was. And I was such a newbie to RPGs that I managed to avoid the Areis spoiler. If I had been exposed to the scary FFVII fanbase before I played; I probably would have hated the game out of spite. :p
I'm glad that a sequel is being made because the game's ending was too open. For goodness sake, I didn't get to find out if anyone besides RedXIII survived!

I mean, I'm not against sequels. I absolutely LOVED FFX-2 (despite never playing FFX) because there was just a sense of fun and light heartedness that seems to be non-existant in video games (especially RPGs) nowadays. It was nice to sit through a game that was goofy and didn't take itself too seriously..Yeah, I loved FFX-2, too. It was fun, the story didn't confuse me, and it had more re-play value than all the other Final Fantasies combined. I beat the game 3 times to get the 100% ending and it felt like a fun challenge instead of a frustrating chore. A lot of anal fans dismissed this game without even playing it just because it was a sequel/it had fan service/it had pop songs/you could only have Rikku, Yuna, and Paine in the party/whatever.

I also thought that playing a female lead was a breath of fresh air. After a while, angsty teenage boys with big-ass swords get kinda boring. :rolleyes:

[peacebyanymeans]

I want to see this movie just for the action sequences. The story sounds retarded.

[Artimus Gigan]

I want to see this movie just for the action sequences. The story sounds retarded.Meh despite the fact that Spirits Within blew plotwise I can think of many other movies that have had worse plots and gave more mixed feelings...


like Brazil for example...seriously I don't even think anything is a bigger WTF

Though I did enjoy Time Bandits a bit more

In the case of FFX-2 I really enjoyed it overall. People intitaly thought that the all female cast= divine sluttery. But really everything was handled tastefully, the only scene that I can think of that was even the utmost hint of fanservice was the 15 second hot springs scene, and that didn't even do anything risque. Rikku's default costume was more or less not played up even though it was just essentialy a bikini with a miniskirt and was pretty much the most revealing of the outfits(but really those braided clamped sleeves were real strange). However FFX-2 also featured the hardest challenge of the series which was the Via Infinanto that topped it off with the hard as nails Trema battle. Allthough I did have to keep the guide close at hand as I checked off the completion events so I could get 100% the first time around.

[James]

I'm glad that a sequel is being made because the game's ending was too open. For goodness sake, I didn't get to find out if anyone besides RedXIII survived!

I've never understood this, as stories go, this was pretty straightfoward in terms of cause and effect. The end does tease you all the way through, but in no means does it leave it open at the end.

If it was a film people would have accepted the ending to be far more linear than game fans do. Possibly because the nature of games demands that every letter is crossed and dotted for people to accept.. maybe the nature of the genre.

FFVII spoiler..

The whole ending teases you. You know the planet will either a) remove humans period, b) allow them to stay. There is no half way. At the end we see Holy failing and suddenly the living spirit of the planet attacking meteor as the living essense of planet and being defends itself.

Beyond that, the battle between the planet and meteor is raging war and we finish with the onlookers on the airship watching, waiting for fate to decide which way it will play...

Enter credits. Do they live or die? It looks ambiguous. TV and film do this a lot. Give you a supposed ending and then offer a more definate encore. The encore that follows shows that a) Red survived. Certainly looks like Red and his family. We see Midgar is no longer used, implying either humans have died, or humans have rejected their abusive pollution... then we have confirmation as it fades out - human laughter. Humanity survived. The planet didn't wipe them out. People live on. That's the end. How they live and what happed to our heroes was unknown... until now.

Beyond that, all the character stories were wrapped up on the previous disk (with the slight exception of Vincent which was left fairly open). Cid got to go into Space, Red became protector, Cait changed his naughty ways, Barrett dealt with Corel, Cloud found out who he was, Tifa got the chance to be open to Cloud (and implied naughty things) and Yuffie wrapped up her village tale.

In all, it was actually quite a rigid ending.


Yeah, I loved FFX-2, too. It was fun, the story didn't confuse me, and it had more re-play value than all the other Final Fantasies combined. I beat the game 3 times to get the 100% ending and it felt like a fun challenge instead of a frustrating chore. A lot of anal fans dismissed this game without even playing it just because it was a sequel/it had fan service/it had pop songs/you could only have Rikku, Yuna, and Paine in the party/whatever.
Yeah, boys have an odd frustration thing with FF. They seem to really LOVE some of the girls, but HATE others. There seems to be about three camps of boys who hate various women for being sexy/slutty/teasy. There seems to be a sort of adoration yet utter frustrated hatred of the girls. As if they are disgusted for liking them and somehow like to try and sexually belittle the characters to make themselves feel more in control.. it's weird. I don't particularly like Rikku, but she's just a game character and not much different to Sephie/Yuffie et al...


I also thought that playing a female lead was a breath of fresh air. After a while, angsty teenage boys with big-ass swords get kinda boring. :rolleyes:
Totally. Especially after Squall.... ><

[Artimus Gigan]

I've never understood this, as stories go, this was pretty straightfoward in terms of cause and effect. The end does tease you all the way through, but in no means does it leave it open at the end.

If it was a film people would have accepted the ending to be far more linear than game fans do. Possibly because the nature of games demands that every letter is crossed and dotted for people to accept.. maybe the nature of the genre.

FFVII spoiler..

The whole ending teases you. You know the planet will either a) remove humans period, b) allow them to stay. There is no half way. At the end we see Holy failing and suddenly the living spirit of the planet attacking meteor as the living essense of planet and being defends itself.

Beyond that, the battle between the planet and meteor is raging war and we finish with the onlookers on the airship watching, waiting for fate to decide which way it will play...

Enter credits. Do they live or die? It looks ambiguous. TV and film do this a lot. Give you a supposed ending and then offer a more definate encore. The encore that follows shows that a) Red survived. Certainly looks like Red and his family. We see Midgar is no longer used, implying either humans have died, or humans have rejected their abusive pollution... then we have confirmation as it fades out - human laughter. Humanity survived. The planet didn't wipe them out. People live on. That's the end. How they live and what happed to our heroes was unknown... until now.

Beyond that, all the character stories were wrapped up on the previous disk (with the slight exception of Vincent which was left fairly open). Cid got to go into Space, Red became protector, Cait changed his naughty ways, Barrett dealt with Corel, Cloud found out who he was, Tifa got the chance to be open to Cloud (and implied naughty things) and Yuffie wrapped up her village tale.

In all, it was actually quite a rigid ending.


Yeah, boys have an odd frustration thing with FF. They seem to really LOVE some of the girls, but HATE others. There seems to be about three camps of boys who hate various women for being sexy/slutty/teasy. There seems to be a sort of adoration yet utter frustrated hatred of the girls. As if they are disgusted for liking them and somehow like to try and sexually belittle the characters to make themselves feel more in control.. it's weird. I don't particularly like Rikku, but she's just a game character and not much different to Sephie/Yuffie et al...


Bah the fangirls are way worse than the males...

"EVERY SINGLE GUY HAS TO BE GAY AND MAKE OUT OMG OMG OMG"

But what's universal is that they act like the characters are real people, it's like those Hentai dating game fans, they refer to the characters and treat them like they're real. It's incredibly creepy...

I mean I usualy liek the characters because of how they're designed...usualy the designs seems to portrays their personas well...

[Gaspard]

Youve got a point about the hentie dating games.
They freak me out espclialy after I caught my friend x-friend
masterbating to them.
Its disgusting.
But about the game I thought FFX was a lot better than FFX2.
The story was just briliant.

[James]

But about the game I thought FFX was a lot better than FFX2.
The story was just briliant.
I agree FFX had a better story, but then games which are very linear and fixed tend to be done so to create a more clear and concise storyline.

FFX-2 was meant to be very non linear and that was it's selling point. The story wasn't the key drive of the game and as such is far weaker than a game like FFX which was designed to tell a story than be a true non linear RPG experience.

[peacebyanymeans]

Youve got a point about the hentie dating games.
They freak me out espclialy after I caught my friend x-friend
masterbating to them.
Its disgusting.
But about the game I thought FFX was a lot better than FFX2.
The story was just briliant.
wait, he's not your friend anymore, because you saw him masterbating to hentai...

I do that all the time! :sweat:

[Gaspard]

wait, he's not your friend anymore, because you saw him masterbating to hentai...

I do that all the time! :sweat:Well that wasnt anything the sick thing is that I saw his boner.:eek:
Who wants to see that crap.
Other stuff was his constant lying like [ I turn into an animal at midnight ]
He was flirting with his cousin and he tries to steal my collection
of gamecube games.

[Pretentious]

FFX-2 was meant to be very non linear and that was it's selling point. The story wasn't the key drive of the game and as such is far weaker than a game like FFX which was designed to tell a story than be a true non linear RPG experience.
FFX-2, for as bad an overall plot as it had, managed to do characterization as good as I've ever seen. Even minor characters (I mean, Lucille is one of my favorite characters in the entire game). And Paine is one of the best new characters I've seen in, well, anythng. She really needs to be the archetype for the "aloof badass" character.

[Artimus Gigan]

FFX-2, for as bad an overall plot as it had, managed to do characterization as good as I've ever seen. Even minor characters (I mean, Lucille is one of my favorite characters in the entire game). And Paine is one of the best new characters I've seen in, well, anythng. She really needs to be the archetype for the "aloof badass" character.I think non-linear pretty much means lofty plot...I mean look at Zelda for instance...same plot for pretty much all the games

It was pretty much "here's what happens after big initial evil". It was character driven instead of story. Everything was broken up into segments and episodes. I mean Vegnagun wasn't even heavily featured until the final parts of the game. They didn't even have a cop-out ending(people were claming that they were going to take "it was just all a dream route"), I mean they pretty much resolved everything that was left hanging from the other game...

Thoguh it has one of the best damn endings ever....and probably the best after credit outro...

Also I was epcting Vegnagun to be some sort of Mammoth shaped thing with a second form being some sort of evil machine angel....but it was a giant evil machine Butterfly you took out in segments...


I mean I'd take another FF game in the vein of X-2....just as long as they make it easier to get 100%....I kept having to check and double check and make sure that I didn't press any buttons to zoom thru the text...I think they could do a FF8-2, that's got a fairly big following...or a FF7-2(or that could be a given)

Also I lived the lightning quick battle system...I mean I finished off most rounds in about 10 seconds

[Pretentious]

I'd be all for an FF8-2. SeeD was still around I figure so maybe make things a bit more tactical based. Maybe some kind of mishmash between a traditional FF game and FF Tactics/Tactics Ogre.

Plus I just plain want more of Xu and Nida.

[James]

I'd be all for an FF8-2. SeeD was still around I figure so maybe make things a bit more tactical based. Maybe some kind of mishmash between a traditional FF game and FF Tactics/Tactics Ogre.

Yeah, that sounds cool to me. I liked the FF8 set up, it was just a little linear and the battle system a tiny bit tideous. Story went a little squew-wiff too. Nevertheless I did like the world a lot and Laguna is the best character ever... FF8-2, with a better battle system and more coherant story would be really great.

[Chosen Raven]

Dang it, it bugs me when people say FF7's ending wasn't confusing. The laughter at the end was most likely not human. The whole game prided itself on being deep. I really doubt the laughter was something so obvious. The general consensus around the time it first came out seemed to be that it was the planet laughing. All the visual signs pointed to humanity's destruction. Still, it could be that the laughter was human. We don't know. It's confusing. And confusing endings=sucky endings. Unless a person likes to be confused, that is.

As for an environmentalist message being done well, I guess it can be. Even so, there are only so many times a message can get shoved in your face before you get sick of it. I remember in Disgaia when Laharl suddenly starts berating the humans for polluting. It was silly and out of place. Especially coming from a demon who's castle sits in a barren wasteland. The enviro message is even more pervasive than the Evil Christian-like Religion (TM). Even if done well, the "message" will decrease my enjoyment of AC.

I'd be all for an FF8-2.
Likewise. It makes me weep for the children of the world when I think about games like FF7 and FFX(games I view as sub-par...to be polite) getting more attenion than worthier games. I know Squarenix is a business and they've got to make money but, *sniff*, where's the heart?:crying:

[Artimus Gigan]

Dang it, it bugs me when people say FF7's ending wasn't confusing. The laughter at the end was most likely not human. The whole game prided itself on being deep. I really doubt the laughter was something so obvious. The general consensus around the time it first came out seemed to be that it was the planet laughing. All the visual signs pointed to humanity's destruction. Still, it could be that the laughter was human. We don't know. It's confusing. And confusing endings=sucky endings. Unless a person likes to be confused, that is.

As for an environmentalist message being done well, I guess it can be. Even so, there are only so many times a message can get shoved in your face before you get sick of it. I remember in Disgaia when Laharl suddenly starts berating the humans for polluting. It was silly and out of place. Especially coming from a demon who's castle sits in a barren wasteland. The enviro message is even more pervasive than the Evil Christian-like Religion (TM). Even if done well, the "message" will decrease my enjoyment of AC.


Likewise. It makes me weep for the children of the world when I think about games like FF7 and FFX(games I view as sub-par...to be polite) getting more attenion than worthier games. I know Squarenix is a business and they've got to make money but, *sniff*, where's the heart?:crying:
The laughter was from children

I've watched the ending multiple times....it's kids

[James]

Dang it, it bugs me when people say FF7's ending wasn't confusing. The laughter at the end was most likely not human. The whole game prided itself on being deep. I really doubt the laughter was something so obvious.
No, the game prides itself on being a movie story and all the way through runs by very standard story rules. Beginning middle end. Character set up, character drama, character resolution. Even the end is very clearly constructed to tease. There is no two way about it.


The general consensus around the time it first came out seemed to be that it was the planet laughing. All the visual signs pointed to humanity's destruction. Still, it could be that the laughter was human. We don't know. It's confusing. And confusing endings=sucky endings. Unless a person likes to be confused, that is.
I have played FF7 for years, frequented many message boards and spoken to many people and I have NEVER heard that theory. :p

It represents that humanity survived in a less destructive form. That Red's children aren't the only one living in harmony with the planet (hence the destroyed Midgar). There is logic in it being kids. The old razor: Simple answer is the most likely, and the whole finale is based around the question "did humanity survive?" You are left hanging on the end, the credits role, building up for an answer, you see Red and his family and you know some survive and you think possible humanity didn't and then in the final fade out as a total tease you here human voices.. humanity did survive.. the game gives you the answer to the ultimate finale question in the last second.

You have to look at what the end is doing to get the right answer and the end is all based around whether humanity survives or not. That's the theme.. and you get the answer. If you look at the finale on that standpoint, the ending makes simple and utter sense.

I think the problem is people look at video games as being disjointed - which they are because they are interactive. That clouds the ability to read the story somewhat. If this was a film, and that was a film ending, I have no doubt people would understand the message. Video Games get a slightly different focus and people don't believe anything without it being signed, dotted and sent in triplicate. You can't be subtle in video games, people just start to go in tangents.. :)


Likewise. It makes me weep for the children of the world when I think about games like FF7 and FFX(games I view as sub-par...to be polite) getting more attenion than worthier games. I know Squarenix is a business and they've got to make money but, *sniff*, where's the heart?:crying:
Well that's your opinion. FF7 fans of all kinds have been desperate for a game. If the makers for years have been pushing Square for some sort of sequel and never got the go ahead. It's demand mate, and while you don't like it, I and many others still feel it's one of the timeless classics of the video game world.

Honestly, I can't think of a game which deserved a follow up more.

[Conan-san]

Ne, to those saying "Make 8-2" I would like to add "and don't make the system suck!".

I'm all for drawing but GFs and Junctioning killed FF8 for me.

[Kuja's Light]

Aries won't come back to life...Just because yo usee her within the mo ie, doesn't mean anything. Use common sense people. *laughs* Oh, and the Promsied Land is probably a metaphorical thing anyway, not physical. Your promised Land, is what you make of your geratest hopes and love and such.

[Chosen Raven]

No, the game prides itself on being a movie story and all the way through runs by very standard story rules. Beginning middle end. Character set up, character drama, character resolution. Even the end is very clearly constructed to tease. There is no two way about it.

I disagree. The plot was designed to teach an environmental lesson. It's loaded with subtle implications. Just because it follows standard story rules doesn't mean that the story wasn't doing it's darnedest to be deep and meaningful.

I have played FF7 for years, frequented many message boards and spoken to many people and I have NEVER heard that theory. :p
Well, all I can say to that is that I have.

It represents that humanity survived in a less destructive form. That Red's children aren't the only one living in harmony with the planet (hence the destroyed Midgar). There is logic in it being kids. The old razor: Simple answer is the most likely, and the whole finale is based around the question "did humanity survive?" You are left hanging on the end, the credits role, building up for an answer, you see Red and his family and you know some survive and you think possible humanity didn't and then in the final fade out as a total tease you here human voices.. humanity did survive.. the game gives you the answer to the ultimate finale question in the last second.

You seem to be basing your belief that humanity survived entirely on the laughing children at the end. The ending shows the entire city of Midgar is abandoned and overgrown with plant life. Red XIII is the only character shown. There are nature noises then what sounds like children giggling. Throughout the game there is talk of the planet's cries, then the ending shows the planet healed and mysterious laughing. Is it really so hard for you to see that others might have a point and maybe, just maybe, they shouldn't be accused of going off on tangents? If you want to convince me you're right about the ending, I'm going to need more than "Kids are laughing, so humanity survived". Once again, it's possible that humanity survived. I could be wrong about the ending. But I think there is more evidence that humanity was destroyed.

I think the problem is people look at video games as being disjointed - which they are because they are interactive. That clouds the ability to read the story somewhat. If this was a film, and that was a film ending, I have no doubt people would understand the message. Video Games get a slightly different focus and people don't believe anything without it being signed, dotted and sent in triplicate. You can't be subtle in video games, people just start to go in tangents.. :)

FF7 was as much movie as it was game. If it were all movie, it wouldn't have made a difference. Besides, this is the Japanese we're talking about. Many of their movies and series end with endings just like this. I don't like those either. Is it so wrong to want completeness in an ending? Especially for an ending you worked 40+ hours to see?

Well that's your opinion.
As implied when I said "games I view as...". Why do people always feel the need to say "That's your opinion." whenever someone bashes something they like? Doesn't that go without saying? I'm not picking on you, SJJ, it's just that that's a pet peeve of mine. I sure I've done it a few times....*kicks self*

FF7 fans of all kinds have been desperate for a game. If the makers for years have been pushing Square for some sort of sequel and never got the go ahead. It's demand mate, and while you don't like it, I and many others still feel it's one of the timeless classics of the video game world.
You're right, I don't like it. So I stated my displeasure about it. I and many others feel it's an overrated and very mediocre game. Naturally, we want to be heard just as much those that consider it a wonderful game.

Honestly, I can't think of a game which deserved a follow up more.
Now here, you might have a point. Of all the FFs I've played(never beat 2 and never played three), FF7's ending was the most....incomplete. And if it was just Advent Children, I wouldn't mind it so much, but it's AC and numerous spin-off games as well.

I'm going to watch Advent Children. It looks like it could be good, even though, from the dialogue I've seen, the story doesn't sound that great(CLONES!? NOOOOOO!).

Anyway, I've hijacked this thread enough. You can have the last word. My ADD is kicking in and I'm losing interest in this thread.:p

[Gaspard]

I think SJJ was right right about everything and I do think watching the ending
was worth 40 hours of gameplay.YOUR WRONG.


[/QUOTE] Anyway, I've hijacked this thread enough. You can have the last word. My ADD is kicking in and I'm losing interest in this thread.:p


You can lose interest in this thread as much as you like.
See what I care.

Final Fantasy 7 couldnt have doen better and I think the movie will be just as good.

[James]

I disagree. The plot was designed to teach an environmental lesson. It's loaded with subtle implications. Just because it follows standard story rules doesn't mean that the story wasn't doing it's darnedest to be deep and meaningful.
You are missing my point. I'm not talking about what the plot was about, but how the plot and narrative was constructed. Storywriting follows certain perameters and FF7 shows some classic story writing techniques, ones particularly used in film. The game owes more to classic story construction than the standard video game - or RPG even.


You seem to be basing your belief that humanity survived entirely on the laughing children at the end. The ending shows the entire city of Midgar is abandoned and overgrown with plant life.

Children were used because children represent both purity and the start. Midgar was the old way of humanity, the use of children shows humanity has adapted to a new mode of lifestyle away from the disharmonious approach they adopted with the likes of Midgar.


Red XIII is the only character shown. There are nature noises then what sounds like children giggling. Throughout the game there is talk of the planet's cries, then the ending shows the planet healed and mysterious laughing.
Children giggle to show that there are children in the vacinity, laughing and being happy, with one with the planet. Humans have learnt from their mistakes and have now come to embrace the environment rather than technology. As you said, the whole story is about environmentalism, and this is the natural conclusion that the story presents. It could either go two ways; either mankind continued and was wiped out, or they got with the program and abandoned their planet abuse.


Is it really so hard for you to see that others might have a point and maybe, just maybe, they shouldn't be accused of going off on tangents? If you want to convince me you're right about the ending, I'm going to need more than "Kids are laughing, so humanity survived". Once again, it's possible that humanity survived. I could be wrong about the ending. But I think there is more evidence that humanity was destroyed.
I think FF7 fans have overanalysed FF7 far too long. It's a rich and deep story, but it's also very clear on pretty much all levels. The only aspect I think is a little vague is some of Sephiroth actions, aside from that it's all straight forward. To me it's like arguing the ending to Blackadder Goes Forth, where the WWI soldiers go over the top in slow motion but while the scene fades to a field of poppies, you don't see them die. You'd could argue that they didn't die, but definitively, you wouldn't be taken particuarly seriously, as the intent of the drama is clear even if it's not directly spoken.

I suppose what irritates me, is that there is no more evidence that humanity was destroyed. None whatsoever. They tell you humanity will either carry on or be wiped out - NO middle ground. The story plays classic story narrative tricks in it's finale in playing out this question and then at the very end, it gives you the answer - human voices. Humans survived. They now live at one with the planet which is the "happy" ending to the whole "green" story. I don't see where the debate is here. We don't see any specific humans not so that we question whether they are dead, but because the narrative wants to keep people guessing to the very last second.

As I said, if this was a movie, no one would be arguing. Humans were either killed or they weren't, final moments and we hear human laughter, ergo, they weren't.

I personally think this is as clear as day without even having to mention the fact that the sequel makes it equally clear. ;)

"Kids are laughing, so humanity survived". Put simply kids are humanity. Kids are laughing, ergo, humanity survived.


FF7 was as much movie as it was game. If it were all movie, it wouldn't have made a difference. Besides, this is the Japanese we're talking about. Many of their movies and series end with endings just like this. I don't like those either. Is it so wrong to want completeness in an ending? Especially for an ending you worked 40+ hours to see?
The ending was complete. Japanese don't pander to their audience. European movies are similar. They aren't like a lot of American movies, which recognize to tap all levels of audience you spell every aspect out as clear as day. That's how you grab your mainstream and make movies watchable to a whole spectrum of audiences. I think that can make Western culture (and I refer to the West in general, I'm not poking at American movie viewers) extremely lazy when it comes to watching films. If they are not told answers by a character in the film, if there is not specific clear visual evidence of a circumstance, they won't accept the situation.

Personally I think the West is very much spoonfed by it's film culture. Makes films more accessible (and I personally embrace that on occasions, sometimes you don't want to think when you watch a movie) but I think with the Western audience it really caused issues with FF7. They wanted it all spelled out - preferably from the characters mouths, with visuals to back up what they say.

I think FF7 explains all without being so hamfisted. It gives all the information subtlely letting the story and sequences flow and tell you the information without the visuals or characters artificially doing it for you.


As implied when I said "games I view as...". Why do people always feel the need to say "That's your opinion." whenever someone bashes something they like? Doesn't that go without saying? I'm not picking on you, SJJ, it's just that that's a pet peeve of mine. I sure I've done it a few times....*kicks self*
It wasn't "games I view as" that compelled me to counter, it was this idea that FF7 wasn't a worthy game, that Square was being lazy and money greedy on making a sequel to a game which wasn't that amazing.

My point was, actually to a lot of people - and not just those who casually sniff games - it was a GREAT game. The response was massive, the demand since for a sequel to this one FF game has been mad. Is it any surprise that Square would follow this audience reaction. And why was the audience reaction so good? Because it was a GOOD game.

So it was less you opinion which I felt I had to respond to, but the way you seem to feel your opinion reflected the gamers response to the game and thus the industry's reaction to this response was inappropriate; that they should have been looking at better games. For a lot of people, games never got much better than FF7, so it's a matter of putting personal opinion aside when trying to assess Square's move to make a sequel. It's a great financial move for them, and it's great for the consumer who has been demanding it. Supply and demand. Simple business.


You're right, I don't like it. So I stated my displeasure about it. I and many others feel it's an overrated and very mediocre game. Naturally, we want to be heard just as much those that consider it a wonderful game.
Not the point. I don't like Goldeneye much, but I respect the fact that to the majority it was an AMAZING experience. I was not surprised they made Perfect Dark afterwards based on the same engine and experience. It's supply and demand, whatever my feelings on the original.


Now here, you might have a point. Of all the FFs I've played(never beat 2 and never played three), FF7's ending was the most....incomplete. And if it was just Advent Children, I wouldn't mind it so much, but it's AC and numerous spin-off games as well.
Again, FF7 has the most demand, they supply that interest. All of them target major cult characters. Especially cult characters. Turks and Vincent specifically. They are doing what as a company, is right. They are reading their consumers.

[BrendaBat]

Yeah, that sounds cool to me. I liked the FF8 set up, it was just a little linear and the battle system a tiny bit tideous. Story went a little squew-wiff too. Nevertheless I did like the world a lot and Laguna is the best character ever... FF8-2, with a better battle system and more coherant story would be really great.If FF8 was to get a sequel; Squall would need to get a personality makeover (or die, whatever :p ). And Square should issue a public apology for the stupid, tedious, and needlessly complicated junction/draw battle system.
However, I second your "Laguna is the best character ever" comment. Laguna's story was the only reason I even bothered to finish that game.

It represents that humanity survived in a less destructive form. That Red's children aren't the only one living in harmony with the planet (hence the destroyed Midgar). There is logic in it being kids. The old razor: Simple answer is the most likely, and the whole finale is based around the question "did humanity survive?" You are left hanging on the end, the credits role, building up for an answer, you see Red and his family and you know some survive and you think possible humanity didn't and then in the final fade out as a total tease you here human voices.. humanity did survive.. the game gives you the answer to the ultimate finale question in the last second. Umm... I always assumed that the laughter came from RedXIII's cubs.:sweat:
Red's kind can talk like humans. So it stands to reason that Red's cubs could giggle like human children as well, don't you think?

[LostAndNotFound]

As if the wait for this thing couldn't be long enough, according to this link http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3143124 FFAC has been delayed and won't come out in the U.S. on DVD until after Thanksgiving- before X-Mas. It just appears us fans will have to wait alittle bit longer before we can see what we have been waiting for. :mad:

[Neo Yi]

Delayed...durn...yet I had this insane feeling something like this would happen.

My opinions on the film I'll give when I watch it. I don't have such high hopes (I'm a big FF9 fan then FF7), but I'm curious to see what's the deal behind the story in Advent Children.
~Neo

[James]

Umm... I always assumed that the laughter came from RedXIII's cubs.:sweat:
Red's kind can talk like humans. So it stands to reason that Red's cubs could giggle like human children as well, don't you think?
But there is no reason to create that complication. Red's cubs are there to show a new generation of Red's race. The giggle of the kids is to show a new generation of humans who are at one with the planet.

The question at the end of the game isn't "what will ever happen to Red's bloodline..?", it's "does humanity survive?". In accordance, the final sound we here is in reference to that question and is nothing to do with Red's cubs. I mean, there had been no attempt to venture into the voicing of characters prior to this, so it doesn't really make sense that they'd do it at the end, particuarly as the cubs weren't playing or showing any signs of giggling on fade out.

This is simple storytelling and in an epliogue, nothing is superfluous. The sound was there to answer a question. The idea that this was the cubs neither offers no logic so far as the finale question goes, nor does it make any sense so far as the way audio and visuals were handled throughout the game and finally, it makes no sense so far as the animation sequences played out: If one was to put such human laughter on the cubs - something which is quite fantastical, you match up those elements so the viewer isn't confused. They weren't matched up because it wasn't the cubs.

It's a great pity that so many fans missed the actual answer at the very end of the game (also supported by the fact we have sequels here ;)). I genuinely advise you replay the game with my comments in mind. Not only will it inflate my ego knowing you have spent 50+ hours played at my request, I really believe if you watch it based on what I said, you'll find the game makes more sense and is more fulfilling. I know on the first and second time I too missed the point of the ending. It wasn't until I knew the game well enough that I can watch the story unfold as a tale rather than an interactive video game, I actually focused and understood how misunderstood the finale is.

The answers are all there and they all make utter sense, but it's very easy to get distracted by the game itself and lose sight of the intent of the story.

Okay, insomnia going. Time for bed again. :)