ITT I comment on Jeff Harris' latest article

[livingfruitvirus]

You know. This one - http://www.thexbridge.com/wts132.html . It's a fun read, but I don't agree with it entirely.

Adult Swim Is Overrated
(or STOP COMPARING RATINGS OF SATURDAYS TO SUNDAYS!)

I've given up supporting Adult Swim. Don't get me wrong, I'll still watch the hell out of it on Saturdays, Sundays,
and Thursdays,

I thought you weren't supporting it anymore. So why are you still watching it? You're still supporting it.


but in theory, I'm giving up supporting the concept of Adult Swim. After nearly four years, I'm fed up with the direction the block is heading. For every step they make forward, they take eight steps backwards. In case you didn't know, once again (click here (http://www.thexbridge.com/wts118.html) for my previous thoughts), Adult Swim has denied viewers an all-action Saturday night by bringing back Futurama to the Saturday night lineup at 11 PM. It's an annual thing they do, since this is the second year they've done it. And they announced it by mocking the action viewers in the process.

Fans need to get a better sense of humor about themselves, because the current state is pitiful. Adult Swim, and any network, obviously appreciates all its viewers, but if it's one thing they know how to do and have fun doing, it's getting under people's skin. Sure worked with you.


Maturity was never the strong suit of the folks at Adult Swim, so why would I be surprised at that comment of only two viewers watching the Saturday night block.What? They're too mature to make a joke at someone's expense? I think it's a 2-way street. People have to be mature enough to take a joke too.


As one of the two viewers who does watch Adult Swim's Saturday action block, I have nine words to say to you, since I can't emphasize it enough:



STOP COMPARING RATINGS OF SATURDAY'S ADULT SWIM TO SUNDAY'S!

Wow. You're serious!

The whole ratings comparison thing got old after a few weeks since they don't really mean anything. Comparing ratings of a comedy-only block to an action-only block is like comparing apples to oranges. No. It isn't. In the television business, all shows are created equally. Just because a show is of a different genre doesn't mean it should get any relaxed standards. The advertisers especially won't accept that.

Of course, comedy rules at Adult Swim. They're flying high on a quartet of shows that they didn't make (Family Guy, American Dad, Futurama, and Robot Chicken) They make Robot Chicken. Geez. :shrug:

while the comedy shows they've made have faltered. I didn't realize Aqua Teen had faltered. So people bought all those DVD sets for nothing.

Tom Goes To The Mayor? 12 oz. Mouse? Squidbillies? Tom lives on another season and they had to PONDER renewing The Venture Brothers? Ok, this shows you have some favoritism going on. Venture Bros. performed not nearly as well as Aqua Teen or Robot Chicken or the FOX shows. Sure, recently it's improved, getting up in the 600,000s, but Tom has gotten around the same number. You can't judge Squidbillies or 12 Oz Mouse because only their pilots have aired so they technically haven't "faltered" yet. I love Venture Bros. as much as, well, 19/20 people on this board, but you're really coming off as an angry fanboy whose favorite shows aren't succeeding as well as you hoped.

If Cartoon Network (see, here's the thing . . . as much as the Adult Swim fans don't want to believe it, Adult Swim is a part of Cartoon Network, not the other way around) didn't have Family Guy, American Dad, Futurama, and Robot Chicken, the Sunday lineup would be extremely weak. The original shows from Adult Swim are popular, but not super popular. Some of them are just downright bad. And yet, the viewers, mostly the mainstream viewers, only watch the Fox-produced shows and the pop-culture skewering Robot Chicken. If the Fox shows ever migrated to FX, Adult Swim wouldn't last another month, and that's a fact.

And here we have the slippery-slope argument. It's not helping. "If a network didn't play its most popular shows, it would suck." Of course it would. I completely agree. Cable rides on the popularity of reruns or cancelled shows. Would TNT have not gotten more attention if it weren't for Law and Order reruns? Would USA not have for the same reason? Would FX have gotten more viewers if it weren't for reruns of The X-Files, or Buffy? Would Spike have more attention if not for reruns of Star Trek and CSI? Would TBS be so watched if it weren't for half of its god damn' lineup? Furthermore, practically all of cable television is a haven for playing theatrical features. It lives to ride other peoples' successes.


And some of the comedy shows are downright bad? More favoritism. You can like or dislike what you want, but you can't force yourself into peoples' homes and change their channels. And I know a lot of people want to force the mainstream watch some underviewed show, but it's such a selfish thing to say that no one will dare say or post it. The FOX shows are incredibly accessible shows with a lot of references to real life and US culture references. They all have very good appeal, and any network that passed on them really should be sodomizing themselves with a vacuum cleaner. Robot Chicken currently is riding on a new and accessible concept, but they now have to keep it up and not become stale.
Another thing is that more kids and teens than adults are watching the Adult Swim action shows than adults are. Why? Because of two reasons: it comes on after Toonami and kids are always curious about what they "aren't supposed to see." The whole "no Adult Swim on Fridays because kids might watch" excuse is invalid and inane because they'll still watch on Saturdays, which is the day after Friday. If they're not going to watch on Fridays, what makes you think that they're not going to not watch on Saturdays? The logic is baffling to say the least. If you could schedule a Saturday night Adult Swim, you could just as easily schedule a Friday night Adult Swim.

The Friday Adult Swim idea has been volleyed back and forth for a while, but I think CN just wants to have a night to cater to kids, and from the sounds of it it's been pretty successful. I don't expect to see Adult Swim march in on Fridays until the night becomes unprofitable.


And there's my problem with Adult Swim. Structurally, it's a flawed block. With no advertisement of the block until an hour before the block actually airs, you'll only have a fraction of likely viewers watching.

Why do they need to pull the target viewers from the rest of CN. CN performs well under half of what Adult Swim does with 18-34 and 18-49. If Adult Swim needs to bring in more viewers, it needs to advertise on other networks that do about as good or better than itself.


Dragon Ball Z "Uncut" advertises in the daytime without complaints, and it's TV-PG, the first regular TV-PG series on the air outside of Adult Swim in the AS era of Cartoon Network. TV-PG shows could have a bigger audience if they aired outside of Adult Swim. Case Closed, Futurama (for the most part), InuYasha (for the most part), and Home Movies would
succeed if they weren't on the block.

Case Closed at 10 PM wouldn't be a bad idea. Futurama doesn't need to go anywhere. It's established itself as a successful Adult Swim show to the point where FOX is in discussion to make direct-to-DVD movies. Inuyasha has also been quite successful on Adult Swim. Home Movies, I don't expect that to succeed at all, anywhere, just like on UPN. It's unfortunate what happened to it as I did enjoy it, but according to Adult Swim it was "a horrific failure" for them. It's a type of show that requires paying attention to and doesn't have catchphrases and one-liners flying about.


Action shows belong with other action shows, and maybe, just maybe, Adult Swim should just spinoff their mature action franchises into another block.

Oh ********. You'd rather have a genre stick together and perform poorly on its own and fade into obscurity, rather than use a proven device like a comedy show to help introduce people to the concept of an action animated series? Samurai Champloo got 606,000 18-34 viewers on its first night after following Futurama and getting a card plugging the show before Family Guy from Sunday thru Thursday that week. Genre elitism won't solve any problems.


No, I'm not saying that Adult Swim Action should become Toonami by any stretch of the imagination, although TV-PG-rated fare like S-Cry-Ed, InuYasha, and maybe Case Closed would fit in the block. I'm saying create a mature action block in the tradition of Toonami. That way, the action programs wouldn't be competitive with the comedy programs.

Sounds like a recipe for failure. Ever come to think that maybe people our age just aren't regularly into animated action as much as animated comedy? I say animated action because when it comes to live filmed action, there are many hits. Luckily the younger generation didn't grow up for 15-20 years with this idea programmed into their heads that animation is primarily for comedy, and have accepted the animated action concept into their lives. Much like middle aged adults still have trouble betraying their precious CBS.


You don't see Toonami competing with Cartoon Network Fridays, now do you?

Not Fridays directly, but I do see Zatch Bell, Gundam SEED and .hack on after it.


Cartoon Network has a lot more valuable time to work with and a lot more room to grow. They have mornings, afternoons, and evenings (late night on Fridays). Adult Swim has late nights. 2-6 AM is hardly worth working with. It's a time where a lot of cable networks run infomercials all night. And really, when you think about it, action and comedy DO compete against each other on normal Cartoon Network. Miguzi took over weekend afternoons. Justice League just got a 10:30 encore slot Sunday night. 6 AM is completely devoted to Toonami failures. Projects in production include Legion of Superheroes, Electric Girl, Robot Boy, and not much going on in future comedy shows for CN besides My Gym Partner is a Monkey and Camp Lazlo. Also you can debate over the action-comedy mix shows like Atomic Betty, Totally Spies, Winx Club, and the other Miguzi friendly shows. Sounds like they're working really well for CN. Too bad Adult Swim doesn't have much on that front, besides Venture Bros.


Maybe I'm just overreacting. Maybe there is a method to their madness over there at Adult Swim. Then again, maybe they're just a bunch of egotists wanting to get a rise out of the action viewers who they feel don't appreciate and respect the action offerings they have.

Getting a rise out of people is pretty fun, actually.


Then again, maybe they're just a bunch of arseholes that like badly drawn comedy.

Ooo. "Arseholes." That'll sting.


*end transmission*

Jeff Harris, 6/21/05

[RD!]

It's hard to tell which author's dedication to the subject(s) is more laughable...

Posting in the first ITT!

[Pepperidge]

If it weren't for Family Guy and Futurama, there would be little difference between the Saturday and Sunday ratings because virtually every show on Adult Swim would then be considered almost equally niche. In that sense, it's not really fair to lump those shows in the comedy category and declare that comedy is more popular. FG and Futurama assist the anime programming the same way that they assist the AS originals, so I think it's a good idea just to accept Futurama on Saturday nights.

I mean, doesn't having a whole night devoted to just action shows just perpetuate them as a niche targeted at an established audience rather than something that can attract more mainstream viewers?

[livingfruitvirus]

It's hard to tell which author's dedication to the subject(s) is more laughable...I like TV. :)


I should've just emailed this. After hitting the submit button I realized no one cares.


edit - Man. Gary L Thompson out-dedicates us both here (http://forums.toonzone.net/showpost.php?p=1794160&postcount=32).

[Lord Dalek]

I smell a board war brewing.

[the Amanda]

Good commentary. I thought it was interesting, so I guess someone cares.

I've never understood the whole "action and comedy must be separated" thing. Futurama returning to Saturday is a good thing for the anime shows because it gives them a greater chance to succeed. Does it really matter that you have to watch Inuyasha at 11:30 instead of 11:00?

I wish Case Closed or Lupin could've aired directly after Futurama or Family Guy. Maybe that could've saved them.

[Youko Recca]

You see, this is why we all should start sleeping on waterbeds again!

[Jeff Harris]

Hi, I'm Jeff Harris.

You may know me as that slightly angry loudmouthed lout that types a lot at my little ol' webpage known as The X Bridge. It's not that good, and, in the same breath, it can be pretty interesting at times. I write articles to enlighten and entertain some folks. Sometimes, people like what I write. Other times, they don't. That's what's great about this country. Freedom of expression and freedom of choice. Plus, dissent is democracy. At least that's what some of my liberal friends tell me. Must didn't get that memo.

Anyway, I raised Living Fruit Virus's ire with a recent article of mine (http://www.thexbridge.com/wts132.html). He admited it was a fun read, but he don't agree with it entirely. Of course, it was written hours after I saw the promo saying that Adult Swim's Saturday lineup is going to be 1/6 comedy again. I've calmed down since then, and I'll make a few comments about what he said about, um, my comments.

I thought you weren't supporting it anymore. So why are you still watching it? You're still supporting it.The original statement of me not supporting Adult Swim and yet still watching it is a lame attempt of comedy on my part. Comedy isn't easy. It's a lesson I know too well.

Fans need to get a better sense of humor about themselves, because the current state is pitiful. Adult Swim, and any network, obviously appreciates all its viewers, but if it's one thing they know how to do and have fun doing, it's getting under people's skin. Sure worked with you.Yeah. Heh heh. You know, they could have made the announcement without mocking those that did watch. Oh, and they could have made the announcement during last Saturday's broadcast, you know, so the two viewers would know.

Wow. You're serious! In the television business, all shows are created equally. Just because a show is of a different genre doesn't mean it should get any relaxed standards. The advertisers especially won't accept that.Well, okay. I know that all shows are created equally. But nights aren't. Saturday nights are historically the lowest-rated nights on television while Sunday nights are the highest-rated nights. I'm not saying that if Saturday had all comedy it would bomb, but the ratings wouldn't be as high as they are on Sundays. I'm not even saying that if Sunday had all action it would be super-successful, but the ratings would be much higher than they are on Saturdays. It's not about relaxing standards or anything.

I didn't realize Aqua Teen had faltered. So people bought all those DVD sets for nothing.Aqua Teen Hunger Force is an exception. It just happened to be one of those shows that benefited from having the Fox shows lead into their airings. Luckily, people realized that it was actually a good show and wanted to support the show by buying the DVDs.

Ok, this shows you have some favoritism going on. Venture Bros. performed not nearly as well as Aqua Teen or Robot Chicken or the FOX shows. Favoritism? I like almost ALL of the shows on Adult Swim. Even Tom Goes To The Mayor, a show I could barely tolerate, even has its unique charm. I would have just like to have understood why they had to think about renewing Venture Bros. I'm curious on how the Sunday airings are doing, and I wonder if it could get a higher rating if it piggybacked on Family Guy/American Dad viewers like Aqua Teen and Robot Chicken did (and I LOVE those two shows too, by the way).

And here we have the slippery-slope argument. It's not helping. "If a network didn't play its most popular shows, it would suck." Of course it would. I completely agree. Cable rides on the popularity of reruns or cancelled shows.Here's the thing I was trying to imply with my original statement.

Adult Swim's highest-rated shows week-wise aren't the shows owned by Adult Swim. They're placing too much emphasis on Family Guy, American Dad, and Futurama on their lineups, making one of these shows the lead-in show. If Fox wanted to, they could easily take those shows away from Cartoon Network because, well, they own them. Fox could create a daily Animation Domination block on FX by putting in reruns of King of The Hill and The Simpsons with those three reruns. Fox already knows that they'll do good on cable, and they know that those three shows are mostly Adult Swim's highest-rated programs. I'd like to see a day when a non-Fox-produced show leads in the Adult Swim block.

And some of the comedy shows are downright bad? More favoritism.Yeah. Some of the comedy shows are downright bad. Some of the anime shows are downright bad as well. You're always going to have a few bad grapes in a bunch, but that doesn't mean you have to eat them.

The Friday Adult Swim idea has been volleyed back and forth for a while, but I think CN just wants to have a night to cater to kids, and from the sounds of it it's been pretty successful. I don't expect to see Adult Swim march in on Fridays until the night becomes unprofitable.They could have made Saturdays a night catered to kids as well, since kids watch cartoons on Saturday nights as well. I'm just saying.

Why do they need to pull the target viewers from the rest of CN. CN performs well under half of what Adult Swim does with 18-34 and 18-49. If Adult Swim needs to bring in more viewers, it needs to advertise on other networks that do about as good or better than itself.Okay. I agree with you on this point. I'd also like to see more primetime, pre-10 PM EST ads for Adult Swim as well on the Turner networks. Or even on non-Turner outlets.

Futurama doesn't need to go anywhere. It's established itself as a successful Adult Swim show to the point where FOX is in discussion to make direct-to-DVD movies. Inuyasha has also been quite successful on Adult Swim. Home Movies, I don't expect that to succeed at all, anywhere, just like on UPN. It's unfortunate what happened to it as I did enjoy it, but according to Adult Swim it was "a horrific failure" for them. It's a type of show that requires paying attention to and doesn't have catchphrases and one-liners flying about.You're right yet again.

You'd rather have a genre stick together and perform poorly on its own and fade into obscurity, rather than use a proven device like a comedy show to help introduce people to the concept of an action animated series?Well, when you put it THAT way, I wouldn't. But in a way, that's what Cartoon Network did. From November 2004 to last Saturday, Cartoon Network had basically all-action from 5 PM to 5 AM EST, 12 hours of nothing but action-animation. Miguzi, Toonami, Adult Swim Action. When I originally wrote the article, I was a bit frustrated (okay, very frustrated) over the decision to change the lineup putting in repeats of Futurama again.

Then as I understood the situation, I was still frustrated over the decision, but not because they replaced a rerun cycle of Trigun for Futurama. I was frustrated because they didn't bring in something that could be a segueway comedy series. Maybe Aqua Teen or Space Ghost reruns (maybe both). I would rather see those than the billionth rerun of Futurama, even though it's still a great show.

Samurai Champloo got 606,000 18-34 viewers on its first night after following Futurama and getting a card plugging the show before Family Guy from Sunday thru Thursday that week. Genre elitism won't solve any problems.You're right. It won't. But in away, isn't the Sunday lineup essentially an genre elitist block? It's all comedy just as the Saturday block is all action. Isn't that elitist as well? I'd like to see Adult Swim basically have a 50/50 ratio of comedy and action every night

Ever come to think that maybe people our age just aren't regularly into animated action as much as animated comedy? I say animated action because when it comes to live filmed action, there are many hits. Luckily the younger generation didn't grow up for 15-20 years with this idea programmed into their heads that animation is primarily for comedy, and have accepted the animated action concept into their lives.Yeah, once again, you're right.

Ooo. "Arseholes." That'll sting.You're right. That was completely unprofessional and immature on my part.

[Eddie G.]

You know I don't see why people see Futurama as an out of place intrusion on the action block. Yes, the show's main goal is to make people laugh, that's how the show is and always will be advertised, as a comedy. However it wouldn't be a stretch at all to say that the majority of episode have some sort of action in them, and most of that action is really awesome.

Once again we get back to the point that the show's intent is to make people laugh. Matt's intentions of creating a show that people would enjoy animating or how awesome the action on the show can be doesn't matter, the show's purpsose is to make people laugh. The truth is though that the same can be said for Lupin III or Case Closed, if anything these shows could be easily grouped with Futurama as episodic action/comedies. But nobody seems to complain about them being on the block at all.

Yeah I'd rather have SC at 11:30 and not have 1:00 showings of PA, but it just seems silly to me to be watching a show that has some ****ing awesome action and suspense in it and then grumble to yourself, "I wish I had an action show to watch instead of this comedy."

[Pizzaguy24]

Man...I can't believe I just read the entirety of Livingfruitvirus's and Jeff Harris's post. Their were both great.

I thank the both of you for doing all the thinking...and the writing.

Now I http://clicksmilies.com/s0105/schlafen/sleeping-smiley-004.gif


EDIT: Wait..


edit - Man. Gary L Thompson out-dedicates us both here (http://forums.toonzone.net/showpost.php?p=1794160&postcount=32).
I gonna have to read all that tommorrow or something...:shrug:

EDIT AGAIN: *Beep!!* even at full screen the article can't fit the screen:mad:

[livingfruitvirus]

Hi, I'm Jeff Harris.
Hi Jeff!

The original statement of me not supporting Adult Swim and yet still watching it is a lame attempt of comedy on my part. Comedy isn't easy. It's a lesson I know too well.::looks at own work::

Well, okay. I know that all shows are created equally. But nights aren't. Saturday nights are historically the lowest-rated nights on television while Sunday nights are the highest-rated nights. I'm not saying that if Saturday had all comedy it would bomb, but the ratings wouldn't be as high as they are on Sundays. I'm not even saying that if Sunday had all action it would be super-successful, but the ratings would be much higher than they are on Saturdays. It's not about relaxing standards or anything.
Oh Saturday nights aren't at all a great night for TV. I think Adult Swim, and even SVES when it was on Saturdays, knows that and doesn't expect them to perform as well as the rest of the week. But I don't think 200-300,000 is considered satisfying at all anymore to the AS folks. It looks like they're looking for somewhere in the 400,000s and beyond for Saturday.

Another little note, for some reason, cable television as a whole does really well on Thursday nights.

Aqua Teen Hunger Force is an exception. It just happened to be one of those shows that benefited from having the Fox shows lead into their airings. Luckily, people realized that it was actually a good show and wanted to support the show by buying the DVDs.
Even though ATHF had that luxury, I don't think it would've succeeded were it not a fun show in its own. A lot of shows have had that 12 AM slot after Futurama/Family Guy, but none of them achieved the ratings success ATHF has in that slot. Lupin III was one of those shows, and it was unfortunate to see it underperform.

Favoritism? I like almost ALL of the shows on Adult Swim. Even Tom Goes To The Mayor, a show I could barely tolerate, even has its unique charm. I would have just like to have understood why they had to think about renewing Venture Bros. I'm curious on how the Sunday airings are doing, and I wonder if it could get a higher rating if it piggybacked on Family Guy/American Dad viewers like Aqua Teen and Robot Chicken did (and I LOVE those two shows too, by the way).
Sorry. It felt like at first you were coming off as an anti-comedy person while still trying to have sympathy for it. You like Tom? Well you're in a minority, pal.

The only reason I could fathom for Venture Bros. taking so long to be renewed is it probably takes the budget of 6 Aqua Teens to make one Venture Bros. Despite it being low budget, it's still traditionally animated, and requires artisticly skilled storyboard artists, layout artists, sheet timers, etc. It did get to piggyback on Futurama, albeit on a Saturday. I think a lot, including myself, would've liked to see it in a Sunday slot, but I think AS had too much faith in it rocketing Saturday to new heights. Part of me thinks AS programming felt betrayed because they had all that trust in it being a big hit and it didn't meet those expectations. It's almost the Arrested Development of animated shows. Haven't seen one bad review for it, but it's not getting the viewership. :(

Here's the thing I was trying to imply with my original statement.

Adult Swim's highest-rated shows week-wise aren't the shows owned by Adult Swim. They're placing too much emphasis on Family Guy, American Dad, and Futurama on their lineups, making one of these shows the lead-in show. If Fox wanted to, they could easily take those shows away from Cartoon Network because, well, they own them. Fox could create a daily Animation Domination block on FX by putting in reruns of King of The Hill and The Simpsons with those three reruns. Fox already knows that they'll do good on cable, and they know that those three shows are mostly Adult Swim's highest-rated programs. I'd like to see a day when a non-Fox-produced show leads in the Adult Swim block.
Right now, I doubt Fox could just take them away. Futurama's syndication is exclusive to Turner Broadcasting until the end of 2007. Family Guy and American Dad probably have a similar deal going. Maybe FX could steal Futurama away at the end of 07, but it's all wait and see. USA did steal WWE Raw from Spike after all.

They could have made Saturdays a night catered to kids as well, since kids watch cartoons on Saturday nights as well. I'm just saying.
If you mean Toonami, it looks like they were balancing that idea around a year ago. I don't think Toonami had much of a trump card to make use of the rest of Saturday, but that doesn't matter what I think. It's too late for could'ves, and now because of Nielsen Media, Adult Swim can't broadcast for less than 42 hours a week. I'd like to see them (CN or Toonami, or Fridays) make more use of 12 AM and beyond Friday though. There's some potential there if Bandai's statement of Gundam SEED doing "way way better" in its Friday night slot than its Toonami slot is true.

Okay. I agree with you on this point. I'd also like to see more primetime, pre-10 PM EST ads for Adult Swim as well on the Turner networks. Or even on non-Turner outlets.
There were a lot run when Futurama and FG were on at 2 PM on TBS. I don't really have any use for TBS so I don't know if there's any over there. For some reason TNT is ignored, and it's the #1 network on cable with adults of all ages. That'd be pretty amusing. An ad for Samurai Champloo on TNT.

Then as I understood the situation, I was still frustrated over the decision, but not because they replaced a rerun cycle of Trigun for Futurama. I was frustrated because they didn't bring in something that could be a segueway comedy series. Maybe Aqua Teen or Space Ghost reruns (maybe both). I would rather see those than the billionth rerun of Futurama, even though it's still a great show.
A bunch were with putting another show on besides Futurama. Some thought American Dad. Some thought Venture Bros. If they want to help anime with a comedy though, a Fox show, or maybe a comedy combination of something like Robot Chicken and Aqua Teen, or just one of the 2, would suffice.

You're right. It won't. But in away, isn't the Sunday lineup essentially an genre elitist block? It's all comedy just as the Saturday block is all action. Isn't that elitist as well? I'd like to see Adult Swim basically have a 50/50 ratio of comedy and action every night
Yes it is. Since it's pulling in the numbers, I guess Adult Swim feels it's earned that right, and it has people and fans who simply won't accept the action programming now. It's a bit embarassing really.

You're right. That was completely unprofessional and immature on my part.Now I feel like a complete ******bag.

[Beat]

Yes it is. Since it's pulling in the numbers, I guess Adult Swim feels it's earned that right, and it has people and fans who simply won't accept the action programming now. It's a bit embarassing really. This I believe is Williams Street's own fault. They basically put Action and Comedy head to head and encouraged the two fangroups to hate each other. Why? It probably makes for some good laughs at the office, I guess. In practice, this tends to be disadvantageous.

Anime is failing for a few reasons, not all of which are Williams Street's fault, and not all of which can be prevented.

1. It's on a lousy, lousy day. If that all-action block was on a Thursday, as originally planned, the ratings might not be so low. As it is, Futurama is an easy show to put on, but no one will watch a serial drama that late on a Saturday unless they really like it. And getting said person to give the show a chance is another matter entirely, one that Futurama did make easier.

2. Many anime fans don't give Cartoon Network a chance. Yeah, I know what many of you will say, they're fat dorks who are hurting anime in the US, they're snobs, they're anime distributor manwhores, etc, etc. There's a good portion of the anime crowd in the US that Cartoon Network and Williams Street are on bad terms with, and they won't watch anything on that channel. Or just maybe, they don't even have cable (As several ANN forum members have attested to) I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm just saying it exists.

3. Shows that are not easy to get into. If you want a show that's easy for people to watch, why on Earth would you get Paranoia Agent?

That's pretty much all I've got. Williams Street should consider itself extremely lucky it got Family Guy and Futurama. I don't consider them right or wrong, and I definetly do not, as LFV so modestly put it "Have ADV's luscious cock down my throat." I call it like I see it.

[Shnay]

They basically put Action and Comedy head to head and encouraged the two fangroups to hate each other.And many fans were more than happy to oblige. People who would pledge loyalty to a genre of animation and discuss their hatred for the other fangroup on the Internet probably don't need too much outside encouragement to do so.

[Beat]

And many fans were more than happy to oblige. People who would pledge loyalty to a genre of animation and discuss their hatred for the other fangroup on the Internet probably don't need too much outside encouragement to do so.
That still doesn't make it right. Couldn't it be easier to make fun of something as stupid as an animation genre war?

[Hayz]

Get Tivo, then just set up and record all the shows you want to watch.

[MegaJ]

You know I don't see why people see Futurama as an out of place intrusion on the action block. Yes, the show's main goal is to make people laugh, that's how the show is and always will be advertised, as a comedy. However it wouldn't be a stretch at all to say that the majority of episode have some sort of action in them, and most of that action is really awesome.

Once again we get back to the point that the show's intent is to make people laugh. Matt's intentions of creating a show that people would enjoy animating or how awesome the action on the show can be doesn't matter, the show's purpsose is to make people laugh. The truth is though that the same can be said for Lupin III or Case Closed, if anything these shows could be easily grouped with Futurama as episodic action/comedies. But nobody seems to complain about them being on the block at all.

Yeah I'd rather have SC at 11:30 and not have 1:00 showings of PA, but it just seems silly to me to be watching a show that has some ****ing awesome action and suspense in it and then grumble to yourself, "I wish I had an action show to watch instead of this comedy."
I don't know, Futurama just sticks out like a sore thumb on that block. To me, at least. Williams Street has established it as a "comedy" show, so to see it placed on a block they've establish as "action" is unnerving.

It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't stick PA to 1:00am, but I guess the other premieres were more popular.

[Sketch]

Without a doubt. I love to watch Futurama on weekdays at the begining of Adult Swim because it's a great comedy show but it just doesn't feel right at the begining of an anime barage. Sticking Futurama in front of the aciton block is as some put it: placing a bandaid on a somewhat severed limb... AS needs to find a way to use Saturday to its full potential without having to add a completely different kind of show in to get some better ratings.

Ya know what would be interesting... If everything tanks despite having Futurama first. Obviously Futurama will still get some numbers but I mean if it's tanking that badly... Futurama may not be enough. Futurama is getting old. Putting an old bandaid on a wound is certainly not a good idea. Granted people start watching Futurama at any given time and then it's "new to them" and CN has no problem with airing reruns forever... but something fresh would be nicer.

[William C. Maune]

AS needs to find a way to use Saturday to its full potential without having to add a completely different kind of show in to get some better ratings.

They tried. The line-up we just had was their attempt. They started it off with the closest anime series they have to something Futurama/Family Guy-like, Inu Yasha (It runs constantly, unlike the other shows that get rotated on and off the block, and continues to perform well in those other slots) and Samurai Champloo, which showed big promise in its initial outings and is pretty much a perfect Adult Swim Action series.

It didn't work, and thus they need a band aid, and fast, because ratings didn't just drop, they nose-dived. I would have rather see them start the block off with Venture Brothers, but considering how much ratings dropped they likely needed a more sure thing to right the ship. That all being said, I think all action Saturday still has one more really good chance. Once the second seasons of FMA and GitS are ready, those might be able to hold their own at the top of the block. Not only did both shows get great ratings compared to the current line-up, but both are now also already established with viewers.

Ya know what would be interesting... If everything tanks despite having Futurama first. Obviously Futurama will still get some numbers but I mean if it's tanking that badly... Futurama may not be enough. Futurama is getting old. Putting an old bandaid on a wound is certainly not a good idea. Granted people start watching Futurama at any given time and then it's "new to them" and CN has no problem with airing reruns forever... but something fresh would be nicer.

If that happens it might prove a point, but it would also likely mean that AS Saturday is screwed. The network as a whole might just have to deal with lower rated programming there so they can meet their Neilson requirement, although that is desirable since it is still a prime time slot. Theoretically they could start Adult Swim at 2AM on Fridays and Saturdays, thus giving them the required Neilson hours and also opening up 11-2 on Saturday nights for other things (likely Toonami since that already airs Saturday nights).

[the Amanda]

Ya know what would be interesting... If everything tanks despite having Futurama first. Obviously Futurama will still get some numbers but I mean if it's tanking that badly... Futurama may not be enough. Futurama is getting old. Putting an old bandaid on a wound is certainly not a good idea. Granted people start watching Futurama at any given time and then it's "new to them" and CN has no problem with airing reruns forever... but something fresh would be nicer.

I wonder what would've happened if they had a block led off with new FMA and GITS? Would that have bombed as badly as this block, or would FMA still have pulled in respectable numbers?

I have to wonder if it was a bad idea to pull Futurama at the same time as they were trying to build fanbases for new series. If they had pulled Futurama midway through the run of FMA, the large numbers tuning in each week might have been invested enough in the show to keep watching and help establish the anime-only night.

[MonkeyFunk]

Okay, I'll admit that I don't know much about the ratings issue, but I'm kind of sick of the whole "action/comedy" dichotomy that network blocks have set up. I feel it's preventing animation from branching out into other genres :sad:

[GWOtaku]

posted by AuroraSzalinski:

I wonder what would've happened if they had a block led off with new FMA and GITS? Would that have bombed as badly as this block, or would FMA still have pulled in respectable numbers?
I think it would have done quite well. I concur with Maune in this regard, once Full Metal Alchemist and Ghost in the Shell are back in the rotation the action lineup will be a lot stronger. We've seen FMA and GiTS pull in great ratings, viewers know what they are and will come back for those. Its a hell of a lot more interesting than leading things off with the vicious ever-repeating ever-boring cycle that is now Inu-Yasha. I have few doubts that Champloo suffered from airing after it, quite frankly. The temporary change to Futurama will help. I imagine Scryed will go on as it has been. Paranoia Agent while unique most definitely does not qualify as an action show by any stretch and it never did that well to begin with, so I say its getting the timeslot it earned for itself.

[Sketch]

They tried. The line-up we just had was their attempt. They started it off with the closest anime series they have to something Futurama/Family Guy-like, Inu Yasha (It runs constantly, unlike the other shows that get rotated on and off the block, and continues to perform well in those other slots) and Samurai Champloo, which showed big promise in its initial outings and is pretty much a perfect Adult Swim Action series.

It didn't work, and thus they need a band aid, and fast, because ratings didn't just drop, they nose-dived. I would have rather see them start the block off with Venture Brothers, but considering how much ratings dropped they likely needed a more sure thing to right the ship. That all being said, I think all action Saturday still has one more really good chance. Once the second seasons of FMA and GitS are ready, those might be able to hold their own at the top of the block. Not only did both shows get great ratings compared to the current line-up, but both are now also already established with viewers.



If that happens it might prove a point, but it would also likely mean that AS Saturday is screwed. The network as a whole might just have to deal with lower rated programming there so they can meet their Neilson requirement, although that is desirable since it is still a prime time slot. Theoretically they could start Adult Swim at 2AM on Fridays and Saturdays, thus giving them the required Neilson hours and also opening up 11-2 on Saturday nights for other things (likely Toonami since that already airs Saturday nights).
I would say Inuyasha isn't the safest bet they have. Fullmetal Alchemist has gotten much better 18-34 ratings as of late. Inuyasha has gotten great 12-17 but that's not what Adult Swim focuses on so it's pretty much wasted. I hope they give FMA a shot at the 11PM slot but I doubt that will be the case now.

Hmm... it would be interesting to have Toonami air until 2AM and because of this they could probably get rid of the Friday night action shows and use that slot for CC's that don't get any play on the rest of the line-up. Adult Swim could air popular reruns or encores 2-5AM on both Friday and Saturday. s-CRY-ed could probably move to Toonami if it aired that late.

[Master Moron]

No. It isn't. In the television business, all shows are created equally. Just because a show is of a different genre doesn't mean it should get any relaxed standards. The advertisers especially won't accept that.


Actually, that isn't 100% true. Underperforming series like Scrubs, Joey, and Arrested Development are renewed partly because there's so little out there in terms of good sitcoms that an underperforming sitcom is about the best they could do. Of course, the difference is that on network TV dramas and sitcoms are different lengths. Dramas are an hour long and comedies are a half hour. That could be part of the reason why networks aren't willing to drop underperforming sitcoms. However, on Adult Swim action and comedy shows are both a half hour so there's really no difference between programming a drama and programming a comedy.

[Master Moron]

Wrrrrrrrrrrrrrrong.

They're continued because they sell well on DVD and make money for the networks that way instead of through ad revenue. Adult Swim does not make money off of anime sales so this is a complete non-sequitor.

Scrubs and Arrested Development probably sell decently on DVD, but there's many shows that were renewed that most definitely would not. CBS renewed Yes, Dear, a show that they're going to have a hard time selling on DVD. I mean, seriously, I don't even know what the hell Yes, Dear is. I mainly listed Scrubs, Arrested Development, and Joey just because they get a lot of press and I'm more familiar with them. There are many shows that are way under the radar that a network would easily drop to develop another sitcom if there were more decent pilots to choose from.

[blitzkrieg]

OT: Arrested Development has basically three things going for it. 1) The DVD's sell well. 2) Critical acclaim. 3) It does well demographically with higher income houses which in turn brings in advertisers that are aiming at higher income families.

As to AS, Futurama has been established as a good lead-in to the anime shows so it makes sense to fall back on it. The time to experiment with a different lead-in would have been doing it instead of having an all-anime block They didn't. Now with the current state of ratings it be kind of idiotic to try another experiment.

Plus, people want action and comedy to co-exisit but at the same time they want to segregate them. Seems kind of counterproductive to me. If I can get someone who is planning on tuning into Futurama to stick around and watch an anime show, that from the ratings they're apparently not going to watch on their own, then I don't see the problem. The most important thing isn't that they decided to stick around because of Futurama, the most important thing is that they decided to stick around at all.